There is a disturbing report out of Chicago where police were called when 95-year-old world War II veteran John Wrana refused to go to a hospital for a urinary tract infection. Called by paramedics to assist in getting Wrana into an ambulance, the Park Forest police showed up in riot gear and proceeded to shoot Wrana first with a stun gun and then with a bead bag fired from a shotgun. He no longer needed treatment for the urinary tract problem. He died from internal bleeding and blunt force trauma. He was about to celebrate his 96th birthday.
Wrana was reportedly frail and had difficulty walking. We have previously discussed other cases involving the killing of a bedridden elderly woman and an unarmed suicide case. The cases raise serious questions of the rapid escalation of such cases in the level of force used by police as well as the increasing use of “non-lethal devices” as a first response to threats.
Wrana was living in an assisted-living facility. Paramedics told police that he was threatening them with a metal shoehorn and a knife. Some reports indicate that Wrana had decided that he did not want to go through an operation. That may have been the reason why he was resisting. He said that he understood that not having the operation could kill him but decided against it. It is not clear whether he was declared incompetent before the attempt to force him to go to the hospital.
The family contests the claim of the knife. Even if he had a knife, it is hard to see why police could not stand back (particularly since they had riot shields) and avoid using such force on an individual who clearly would be a risk with either a stun gun or bean bag round. Even if the blunt trauma did not finish him off, the shock could easily trigger a heart attack in a near 96 year old man. Some reports indicate that multiple rounds of bean bags may have been used.
Wrana was U.S. Air Corps veteran who served in Burma and India during World War II. Sergeant Wrana survived the hellish fighting in Burma but would later die in the United States just short of this 96 birthday in a confrontation with police. Truly bizarre.
Just for the record. These bean bag rounds are often thought of as harmless, almost toy-like devices. The bean bags fired form a shotgun will initially travel at around 300-400 feet a second (though they have a range of 70 feet). They have been shown to break ribs and even push broken ribs into the heart. Internal bleeding is a well-known risk.
So sad, I hope the family fights for justice for him
lol leave it to Darren to come up with a reason for shooting a 95 year old man. well darren im a 45 year old black woman of small stature and i too have had to wrestle a machete out of a mans hand to save my life. amazingly i managed to do it with further cutting my throat or putting any cuts on him and this happened just one day b4 my 20th birthday. and i still have the scar on my throat today to prove it. so if you managed to get cut by wrestling a knife out of a mans hand and i managed to wrestled a machete out of the hands of a martials arts expert
SOMETHING IS WRONG SOMEWHERE.. WHERE DO YOU SUPPOSE IT IS?
and let me not leave out the fact that i am 5’8 and at this time in my life 145 lbs back then i was 5’8 and about 105;lbs give or take a couple lbs as i was a model back then….. this man was 5’10 and about 150-160 also into weight lifting at the time. and im ready to post a pic of my throat to prove my point and a pic of the man who tried to end my life…..
Wallace
Wait. It wasn’t POTUS’ neighborhood. It WAS POTUS. And I understand that Michelle was there, too. The girls were meeting with Ayers, so they couldn’t be there.
going to post the link and allow all of you to read for yourselves what is being said about why our elderly VETERANS are being killed off…
This week, American war veterans in Los Angeles await a court decision that would return the Veterans National Home to them. The land had been stolen from them by gangsters and politicians, two groups most Americans now know are one and the same.
However, they fear the judge is under pressure from powerful anti-veteran groups now clearly identified as Israeli-based.
“Steamrolling” veterans
American war veterans have been targeted. They have known it for years, but it wasn’t until they were named “terrorists” by Department of Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano and “anti-Semites” by Abe Foxman’s Anti-Defamation League that they knew who was out to get them.
http://www.presstv.com/detail/2013/08/19/319417/israels-secret-war-on-american-veterans/
Darren,
Maybe it is just me, but I have had to separate people from sharp objects without too much difficulty. Having been born with fast twitch muscles and good eye hand coordination is a mixed blessing, because I have been known to go where I probably shouldn’t. Usually, I am good with talking and never need to get frisky.
What works for me may not work for everybody else.
Darren,
With this info, that you provided, then can we really blame the officers for using the kind of force they utilized to tame the ol’ geaser, I meant to say gentleman? 🙂
This is a tragedy that didn’t have to happen. Unfortunately, the thug murderers in police uniforms will get paid vacations. They’ll also receive some kind of award from their union and probably their fellow cops too. The positive reinforcement will only increase the frequency of these events.
This poor man. If that urinary tract infection had progressed far enough, which it sounds like it may have, it could have caused some pretty severe mental confusion. Perhaps if PD had spoken with the paramedics prior to calling in the “SWAT TEAM” he may have seen his 96th birthday. Of course, strapping on the riot gear is way more fun, apparently.
And, no Wallace, this ISN’T Obama’s fault.
This deserves investigating and even more so the badges of those directly involved should be put out of service PERMANATELY…..sensless….. bunch of cronies from the stomping ground of our P.O.T.U.S………. Imagine that !
RWL
Generally the training you mention SHOULD be lengthy and thourough on all the points you bring up. It starts with the academy (generally) and then becomes part of conntinuing education.
Every state is likely to be different. I can only speak for WA because it is where I worked. There are shoot / don’t shoot situations, and ones where you are taught when to use what. A good tool that has been around for maybe a little over 20 years is the FATS system. (Firearms training simulation) It is essentially a life sized game with a projection screen that displays situations and the officer is required to act to it. The pistol used is linked up to the computer and there are other options such as Taser, night stick and pepperspray. The system records what happens and measures reaction time, where the shots hit, and scores based upon if the action was justified or not. There are lesser tech approaches known as Mock Scenes which are more role playing.
As for your question as to whether or not it is kill first or not there is a concept called the Force Continuum where based upon the total situations known to the officer it addresses the level of force to be used , if any. It differs from location to location or department but it generally is as follows:
Deadly Force (Firearm / Knife / Impact weapon to throat or head Nick hold)
Impact weapon (nightstick metal flashlight) to knee / elbow / upper shoulder)
Impact weapon to thigh / forearm / upper arm / hip
Chemical Spray / OC && TASERS
Shoves kicks, punches and pain compliance holds
Moving defendant and light escorting, compliant handcuffing.
Verbal commands directed at person
Officer being present with other person.
(note: I don’t know where exactly the bean bag would be used since I haven’t been trained in it but I would guess it would be the upper impact weapon level)
For the most part an officer would determine at what proper level of threat the suspect requresented to the officer or others and based upon that locate (based upon training) the level to be used. If it is not effective the foce can be ratcheted up. Sometimes in dangerous situations, where warranted it might be at the top. The training is to hope the minimal force is used. Now, there is a caveat that there have been officers wounded, or even killed by approaching the situation too far below the threat level and they are overwhelmed and victimized. Complacency is usually the reason. That said it is best to use one’s experiences and vigilance to get it right the first time and adjust quickly if needed.
hope this helps
“Undertrained officer”? Is that the stand-yer-grounders’ new euphemism for “bully with a badge”?
Chuck:
I would agree in principle to what you are saying but a knife can be much more risky than one can expect, even if the person carries it is weak. I had to wrestle a large kitchen knife out of a guy’s hand one time during a fight and despite using both of my hands and banging his hand against a column until I knocked the knife free he still managed a good cut in my hand in the process. So the knife to me requires a little more precaution. But, I still don’t feel events necessitated the response that unfolded.
OS & Darren,
Interesting info! I guess I am shocked that they didn’t try those techiniques. Are they trained to use your tactics (mentioned above) in the Police Academy? Are they trained to use less lethal methods for resolving certain situations? Or are they trained to kill first, then think about what you could’ve better, later? It just seem so odd.
As to the bean bag and shotgun combo:
“Deputy Police Chief Mike McNamara said the officer who shot the gun had fired it in training, but it had not been used on a call in more than 10 years. …
The police department’s policy manual says shooting the bean-bag gun should be considered as a “use of force greater than the use of the police baton but lesser than deadly force …”
An officer shooting the shotgun should take into consideration the target’s “physical factors,” including age, size, relative strength, skill level, injury/exhaustion and the number of police officers versus the subject, according to the manual.
It states that officers must complete an approved training course to use the gun and that a watch commander shall authorize the use of a bean-bag gun before it is used.”
http://www.suntimes.com/news/22553113-418/police-bean-bag-gun-in-95-year-olds-death-not-used-in-10-years.html
Physical factors of the target:
A. age – 95
B. size – slight and unable to stand without assistance
C. relative strength – wobbly
D. injury/exhaustion – 95 year old suffering from an infection
E. number of police officers versus the subject – 5/7 to 1
Name of Watch Commander who authorized use of bean bad shotgun on target – not published
Name of officer who fired the beanbag shotgun – not published
Training Certificate for officer who fired the beanbag shotgun – not available
RWL.
Tranquilizer dart guns use several different chemicals. One of the most common is a neuroleptic, which is the proper term for an antipsychotic drug. One such drug is Haloperidol, which is labeled as Haldol. Other drugs are powerful anesthetics, such as Sodium thiopental, also known as Sodium Pentothal. It is the first drug of the three-drug cocktail administered in lethal injections. Another is propiopromazine, a phenothiazine derivative made by Bayer under the brand name Combelen. Most of the dart guns use veterinarian certified drugs which are not approved for human use by the FDA. Anesthetics and other such drugs depress respiration, and can cause death, especially in the elderly. Additionally, neuroleptics can cause seizure like muscle rigidity, which could be life threatening, particularly in an elderly person or child.
All things considered, I would not want to be shot with a dart that could stop a charging boar hog in its tracks.
I read what Darren wrote. I have worked in nursing home facilities and am familiar with that population. Considering he was in his mid-90s, if I had been there, I would have walked up to him, and if I could not get him to give me whatever he was waving around, I would have taken it away from him. All I would need is a large towel wrapped around my forearm as a shield to protect my head and torso. This would not be like giving a violent inmate the bum’s rush to subdue him.
That crew of officers appear to be undertrained weenies.
RWL
Almost all the ones I have heard were generally carried by Animal Control officers and Fish and Wildlife officers to be used on animals. Their use in my experience was rare. As for regular patrol units, I’ve never seen someone carry one. It might be different in Alaska though. But where I’m at I have only see a tranquilizer gun once and it was an old relic buried back in the armoury.
The problem with the use of the tranqilizer on a person is that it contains a type of drug that a person has to be licensed to inject into another person. In our state it is illegal to do this. There are also issues with allergic reaction that the person might have and it could flare a drug interraction with something the person is taking. Pllus, you have to deal with dosage issues related to size etc.
Even animal control officers who put animals down with barbituates have to be licensesd and trained along with inventory control of the vials due to state and DEA requirements. All things considered, along with the risks, it is just not feasable for police to carry these.
Reblogged this on Randy C White and commented:
“To serve and protect…”…whom?
I mean do they exist for humans?
Darren,
Do police officers carry tranquilizer guns? These guns do exist for humans.
RWL Asked:
‘But seriously. If you were the officer/captain, handling the call, how would you handle the situation?”
~+~
I am really at a disadvantage since we here don’t have the layout of the room he was in, whether or not he actually possessed the knife, his demeanor and / or demands he was making specifically. But here is my best shot in the dark.
First order of business would be to clear out any unnecessary persons from the room he was in and secure it so that people will not come in and cause surprises or if he can suddenly run out if he was carrying a knife.
Next begin the dialogue with him and try to see where he is and where he is coming from. It would be very encouraging to convince him to sit down to contain him. (of course doing this from a reasonably safe distance as can be afforded. )
The knife issue is really the key here and what his intentions could be with it. THe taser is out because of his advanced age. I personally don’t agree with the use of bean bags guns so I wouldn’t have one available. The best situation is to have him drop the knife and kick it over to the opposite side of the room and continue dialogue. Still the knive wielding is dangerous and officers must keep in mind the situation can for whatever bizarre and tragic reason go bad.
In a situation such as this, one has to try (and it is not going to be accurate completely) to determine what the man finds purpose in the knife. If it is “I’m going to hoark anyone that steps foot in here.” He should be treated as a high risk, dangerous patient and there should be an expectation it can go badly. Not to rush in, but to be prepared. If the knife is a symbolic form of resistence or (in his mind) defense to what he believes the medical staff wanting to perform surgery he doesn’t want that is more workable. You could say it might be a form of bargaining chip that he has created for himself.
If he just has a standard shoehorn cane, I think two or three officers, if talking wasn’t working and they needed to take custody of him could flank him with a winter coat wrapped around one arm in case he swings and take it away from him.
The core of the problem is the man’s frailty and propensity for him to be gravely injured. But officers have to protect themselves or other staff if the man (speaking just from the mindset that anything can happen) Time can be another issue.
If the knife is NOT a factor and the man is flailing around swinging the cane a tactic that works in the jails is to grab a few mattresses by several officers and hold them long side up, forming a phalynx rom and pressing him up to a wall. This basically traps him in place and prevents him from assaulting officers.
There is another aspect that COULD be considered, but I don’t have much confidence in being the case. It might have been a deadly force situation and rather than shoot him they instead bean bagged and tased him. Both improper uses but better than shooting. But it went tragic.
The fact that the man was shot multiple times with the bean bag COULD be indicative of this but again, I don’t have the official report so I am at best guessing based upon what I know from a common procedural standpoint.
Another aspect to consider was is it the case where the man was just outraged about the medical issue and making a big scene? If he was it is not a police matter. So if this incident started from that dispute, the room was cleared, I have to say a big part of whether this was warranted (in retrospect) would have been could time and patience returned a positive result here?
Blouise brings up a kep piece of information that unfortunately wasn’t considered by the police at the time. The staff would certainly know among themselves, the employee who this man trusts and likes the most. And if he or she is willing to be an interlocutor (after the scene is stabalized and she can talk to him from a safe position) She can be instrumental in bringing this to a close, working with the police and the patient.. Sometimes some police have a need to rush in and take charge, pushing out everyone else but the police. I have noticed that this is unfortunately a spillover or artifact caused by the totallity of police training and you can see this manifest itself at bad times/places. There is training to address this but it often never goes away.
Again, I don’t have the full amount of information so I could be way off.
Good info Darren!