I have previously written about the increasing monitoring and discipline of teachers for conduct in their private lives. In San Diego, three high school coaches and a volunteer teacher were suspended for wearing costumes with black face at a Halloween party. They were not doing a minstrel show but were going as the Jamaican bobsled team featured in “Cool Runnings.” The party was at the San Diego State University.
The punished individuals include the varsity head football coach, an assistant coach and a teacher at Serra High School will be suspended. Notably, a volunteer will also be suspended.
People can debate whether wearing makeup to look like a Jamaican bobsled time is racist. My concern is purely one of free of expression and association for teachers. This was not a criminal act. They were not participating in a KKK cross burning. They clearly do not believe that wearing black makeup is racist or wrong. They have a right to make such decisions in their private lives. Nevertheless, both the NAACP and the Anti-Defamation League supported action to be taken against the teachers and coach.
I certainly understand why many find black face to be offensive and I am surprised that people continue to use it in costumes. However, free speech and association protects different values and expressions. Citizens are not required to satisfy majoritarian views on proper humor or, as the English call it, “fancy dress.”
Superintendent Cindy Marten took the group out for a public lashing, stating that “[t]hey send their apologies to any person or group of people they have offended and want to make it clear it was not their intention to offend anyone.” She called it a “critical teachable moment” but what does it teach about free speech and privacy for public teachers?
Lei-Chala Wilson, President of the NAACP’s San Diego Branch, praised the discipline and added “We found nothing funny when we saw that picture was posted.” The concern is that public teachers should not have to satisfy others in their private lives as to whether the public finds their jokes funny or their associations acceptable. I was struck how it was simply assumed that such private conduct off-hours are naturally the subject of public discipline and accountability.
What do you think?
http://youtu.be/oArDFU_IESQ
Porkchop, I’m having you for dinner, and I’m pretty sure the good hearted DavidM was just helping you out for future comments.
davidm:
I did not. Thank you for pointing that out to me.
My apologies to Robin.
Is gender in any way relevant to the points I made?
Mike S,
I don’t understand one part of your response: What do you mean when you say that you are “technically not” a person of color?
“Mike S,
I don’t understand one part of your response: What do you mean when you say that you are “technically not” a person of color?”
Porkchop,
A certain percentage of people consider Jews to be of a different race.
“Mike S. is not a person of color, but he is offended; Robin is a person of color (indeed, of Jamaican heritage), but he is not offended. What are the rules here for when one may be offended, should be offended, or must be offended?”
Porkchop,
I’ve always been quite clear that when I state an opinion that is a summation of my thought and no one else is bound by it. I speak for no one but myself always. However, RobinH is entitled to see it differently and there is no dichotomy in the fact that RobinH is a person of color and I am technically not.
Herman Cain is a person of color as well and he no doubt would agree with RobinH, though RobinH has shown by productivity here to have the greater intellect. Thomas Sowell, might also disagree with me and so it goes. As the umpire great Bill Klem once said “I call em’ as I sees em'”. That I take offense to this is not a call for any to follow me, despite Nick’s protestations to the contrary. I explained why I believe as I do and gave examples that to my mind support my beliefs. You and Robin see the matter differently and have supplied your supporting thoughts. That is what discussion is about.
I have openly presented myself on this blog as a Jew. There are many Jews who would deny my beliefs and tell me that I am not able to talk for the Jewish people. They would be right and wrong simultaneously, because I don’t have the right to talk for the Jewish people, but I’ve never claimed that right.
Porkchop, You can go to PC.org and download the rules. However, make sure you update them often, they change daily. Here’s the irony, Robin’s first sentence states, “I am not trying to speak for anyone but myself.” Are there similar caveats for the protectors of the allegedly offended?
Juliet N:
“Robin: You don’t speak for all people of color.”
I think his point is that no one else does, either. Your friends have their opinion; Robin has his. Sometimes it seems that the only opinion that is heard is the one that is shouted the loudest and most frequently.
Moreover, their are a lot of colors out there. Neither of you speaks for my Asian wife, who is a “person of color” by some definitions. Are persons of color other than African-Americans supposed to be offended by proxy? On general principle?
Mike S. is not a person of color, but he is offended; Robin is a person of color (indeed, of Jamaican heritage), but he is not offended. What are the rules here for when one may be offended, should be offended, or must be offended? Would the offended Mike S. be allowed to take the unoffended Robin to task for not being offended? Could one describe Mike S. as offended on Robin’s behalf? If so, wouldn’t that be in some sense paternalistic, indicating a view that Robin might not know or be capable of knowing where Robin’s proper interests lie or where his moral compass should point?
I think that there is an interesting comparison to be made to the current “Washington Redskins” naming controversy. (To put this in context, I live in the Washington metro area, but I’m not a fan, don’t follow the team, and think the owner is scum.) Spokespersons for the Oneida Nation point out (correctly, in my view) that the origin of the name is racist, but in numerous man-on-the-street interviews, African-American fans find no problem with the name and oppose a name change. It is apparently the case (according to poll results) that many, perhaps most, Native Americans have no problem with the name, either. Whose opinion bears the most weight? Does apathy count?
____________________________________________________
Some additional serious questions for the commenters here — raised by my wife:
Is there, in your view, a moral distinction between going to a Halloween party dressed as President Obama in blackface (a la Fred Armisen on Saturday Night Live) and going to a Halloween party dressed as President Obama in a commercially available Obama mask purchased at a costume store? Aside from references to Al Jolson, “Mammy”, and 19th-century minstrel shows, what is the distinction between makeup (which is what “blackface” is) and a mask? Is historical baggage the only distinction?
Should it make a difference who is being portrayed? Say, Obama, as opposed to OJ Simpson? Would it make a difference if an OJ mask were sold with a football? Gloves and a bloody knife?
Suppose there were a “Cool Runnings” costume with a mask that was integral to the helmet? Would that be different than the situation in the original post?
Upthread, OS referred to wearing a Ronald Reagan mask as a form of mockery — I’m not so sure that would always be the case. It might depend on who was wearing it. There seem to be a lot of people who purport to admire the man. Certainly, during election season here in Virginia (we vote today) his name keeps coming up as a reason to vote Republican. (Never mind the likelihood that the man himself might not be pure enough to be a “real” Republican if he were actually still around.)
Porkchop – You make some excellent points, but perhaps you did not notice that Robin is a woman.
And the winner is…..the tag team of Juliet N. and Mike S. who win the Internets today!
I cede that honor to Mr. Spindell. I am ever a fan of the subtle, not possessing that virtue myself. 😉
Juliet,
You are far too kind. A clearly written calling a malefactor to account is usually the best solution. It calls out the intent behind the weasling words.
“I have always depended on the kindness of strangers.”
Robin,
I didn’t know all of that about the illuminati …..
Aw! Is someone mad because I won’t be his friend?
Robin45, Thanks much for sharing your personal story. And, I know you realize you do not speak for all people of your heritage. That is left up to white elitists.
Robin: You don’t speak for all people of color. I’m very glad you don’t find white people mocking black people hurtful. I truly am. But every single person of color on my friends list is horribly offended.
Here’s a handy guide for white people on when it’s okay to dress in blackface for Halloween:
http://shouldidressinblackfacethishalloween.com/
Juliet,
I’ve perused your guide and found it quite illuminating. Some here might find the reading a bit difficult though because it might put them in touch with too much information about themselves that they are not equipped to handle.
Robin, I have not ever heard of those 2 teenagers. I hope for their sake they’re rich because mean and stupid w/a side of attitude just doesn’t get one as far today as it used to.
People that think nothing of being boors, or feel entitled to be, sure are quick to whine when they get called on it. All of a sudden it’s YOUR problem. Blame the victim because they don’t know how to act in a civilized society, or don’t care. It’s like those false apology’s that begin ‘If I offended anyone….”. Same thing.
Robin,
I’ve done much reading on the Illuminati and other similar theories such as the Priory of Sion. They’re interesting tales and fun to read, but I don’t find them credible. If you do more power to you if it helps you get through your life. If you’re interested in a good book on them read the “Illuminatus” trilogy by Robert Anton Wilson. Also “Foucault’s Pendulum” by Umberto Eco is a good source.
comment lost please retrieve THANK YOU
the Illuminati was organized by one Adam Weishaupt, born a Jew, who was converted to Catholicism and became a Catholic priest, and then, at the behest of the then newly organized House of Rothschild, defected and organized the Illuminati.
Nathan Rothschild bought all the stocks for virtually a penny on its dollar values.
That gave him complete control of the economy of Britain and virtually of all Europe. So immediately after that Congress in Vienna had boomeranged; Rothschild had forced Britain to set up a new “Bank of England” which he had absolute control exactly, as later through Jacob Schiff; he engineered our own “Federal Reserve Act” which gave the House of Rothschild a secret control of the economy in the United States
In 1826; one Captain William Morgan decided it was his duty to inform all Masons and the general public what the full proof was regarding the Illuminati, their secret plans, intended objectives, and to reveal the identities of the masterminds of the conspiracy. The Illuminati promptly tried Morgan in absentia and convicted him of treason. In 1826; one Captain William Morgan decided it was his duty to inform all Masons and the general public what the full proof was regarding the Illuminati, their secret plans, intended objectives, and to reveal the identities of the masterminds of the conspiracy. The Illuminati promptly tried Morgan in absentia and convicted him of treason. SOUND FAMILIAR??
Karl Marx was writing the “Communist Manifesto” under the director of one group of Illuminists, Professor Karl Ritter of Frankfurt University was writing the antithesis under the direction of another group.
The idea was that those who direct the overall conspiracy could use the differences in those two so-called ideologies to enable them to divide larger and larger members of the human race into opposing camps so that they could be armed and then brainwashed into fighting and destroying each other. And particularly, to destroy all political and religious institutions.
AGAIN SOUND FAMILIAR??
The First World War was to be fought so as to enable the Illuminati to destroy Czarism in Russia, as vowed by Rothschild after the Czar had torpedoed his scheme at the Congress in Vienna, and to transform Russia into a stronghold of atheistic communism. The differences stirred up by agents of the Illuminati between the British and German Empires were to be used to foment this war. After the war would be ended; communism was to be built up and used to destroy other governments and weaken religions. ?????
anyway thats just bits and pieces of the true history of the world…. and i posted it to show you. that yes the jews were persecuted but there was a pact made to that effect…
again i posted just bits and pieces but heres a link to one site…
http://educate-yourself.org/nwo/illuminatiagendabestoverviewyet8jun02.shtml
and if you dont trust that site look up the name Myron Fagan…….
be prepared to realize history as u know it is all lies
To Mike S i respect you immensely and i understand exactly why you feel and think you do. but you need to know, research and understand a few things
the Illuminati was organized by one Adam Weishaupt, born a Jew, who was converted to Catholicism and became a Catholic priest, and then, at the behest of the then newly organized House of Rothschild, defected and organized the Illuminati.
Nathan Rothschild bought all the stocks for virtually a penny on its dollar values.
That gave him complete control of the economy of Britain and virtually of all Europe. So immediately after that Congress in Vienna had boomeranged; Rothschild had forced Britain to set up a new “Bank of England” which he had absolute control exactly, as later through Jacob Schiff; he engineered our own “Federal Reserve Act” which gave the House of Rothschild a secret control of the economy in the United States
In 1826; one Captain William Morgan decided it was his duty to inform all Masons and the general public what the full proof was regarding the Illuminati, their secret plans, intended objectives, and to reveal the identities of the masterminds of the conspiracy. The Illuminati promptly tried Morgan in absentia and convicted him of treason. In 1826; one Captain William Morgan decided it was his duty to inform all Masons and the general public what the full proof was regarding the Illuminati, their secret plans, intended objectives, and to reveal the identities of the masterminds of the conspiracy. The Illuminati promptly tried Morgan in absentia and convicted him of treason. SOUND FAMILIAR??
Karl Marx was writing the “Communist Manifesto” under the director of one group of Illuminists, Professor Karl Ritter of Frankfurt University was writing the antithesis under the direction of another group.
The idea was that those who direct the overall conspiracy could use the differences in those two so-called ideologies to enable them to divide larger and larger members of the human race into opposing camps so that they could be armed and then brainwashed into fighting and destroying each other. And particularly, to destroy all political and religious institutions.
AGAIN SOUND FAMILIAR??
The First World War was to be fought so as to enable the Illuminati to destroy Czarism in Russia, as vowed by Rothschild after the Czar had torpedoed his scheme at the Congress in Vienna, and to transform Russia into a stronghold of atheistic communism. The differences stirred up by agents of the Illuminati between the British and German Empires were to be used to foment this war. After the war would be ended; communism was to be built up and used to destroy other governments and weaken religions. ?????
anyway thats just bits and pieces of the true history of the world…. and i posted it to show you. that yes the jews were persecuted but there was a pact made to that effect…
again i posted just bits and pieces but heres a link to one site…
http://educate-yourself.org/nwo/illuminatiagendabestoverviewyet8jun02.shtml
and if you dont trust that site look up the name Myron Fagan…….
The above excerpts are from a 4 part history of the beginning of the cfr,u.n. elites etc.. warning be prepared to realize that like black people the majority of history as you know it. is pure lies and as my mother always said everybody can’t be telling the same lies especially when they don’t know one another
ok im not trying to speak for anyone else but myself… with that said i agree with everything randyjet said…. its funny how the very people who some claimed are being mocked, disrespected, and ridiculed are not the ones complaining about this? why do you think that is???
I myself am half jamaican (father) and half shinnecock indian (mother) and I AM IN NO WAY OFFENDED BY THE GENTLEMENS COSTUMES.. because that is exactly what it is a costume.. funny thing is. the black community has NOT uttered a word about this.. why? because we have much more important battles to fight… and in asking many of my friends and family and their friends and family… the response is the same.. these men were paying homage to the 4 jamaican bobsledders who faced acid adversity to achieve their dreams…
Some of you say that black people never find a need to dress up in white face!!!! lmao why would we need to? when some of us are so light we pass for white? and its not something we purposely did to ourselves is it? i mean the race of mulatto, creole, quadroon,octoroon,quintroon etc…
don’t come from pure blood black people right??? this is nothing but a distraction as is the rest……
why isnt there a outcry about the 2 girls on twitter who also posted a picture of them in black face with the words ” looks were niggers now”? i havent heard one word from anyone about that one. and that is something i found offensive. simply because OF THEIR RESPONSE WHEN CONFRONTED..
http://blastdatass.com/white-teen-in-blackface-responds-to-black-critics-worry-about-finding-your-dad/
im really getting fed up with the bs. not all but a certain segment of the white race really likes to believe they are GODS gift and reality is since the beginning of history as told to us. the most heinous of crimes have been committed by them. statistics are skewed to make us the villians when its far from the truth… there is a billion dollar debt for the reason we have been made the worse of the worse…
Black people have been and are continously demonized and when we fight back we’re anti semitic, playing the race card, life time victims etc isnt that right juliet n?
White men (and after eisenhower none were american) have been the ceo’s of the country since the beginning of time. any destruction done was put into place long before we ever heard of obama.
And yet the minute he got into the devils office every thing wrong with the country wait no the world is his fault… the hilarious part is it wasnt black people who put obama in office.. i love how it’s ignored that his main constituents were and are white people.. but of course lets blame blacks for putting a black man in office and destroying our world!!! we didnt manage to get jesse jackson in office but we darn sure got obama in??!! are you serious? lol…
Black people dont work all we do is sit around and collect welfare. according to some. funny that we paid taxes into the system of welfare but wasnt allowed to receive it until the late 70’s Coincidentally it was also during the 70’s that the demographics of the prison system was changed and suddenly filled with blacks.but of course it was in the late 70’s that the loan was to begin being paid back that we blacks made to the corporation.
I could go on and on but i wont. theres no need to.
oh and for the record heres the link to my fb page since WP never posted my picture up… im the tall skinny one in the black and white blouse in my profile pic
https://www.facebook.com/Robinh3868
AND NO IM NOT TRYING TO OFFEND ANYONE. SAVE THOSE WHO HAVE OFFENED ME.
These people were teachers. Let’s pretend they had some little kids in their classes. Let’s pretend some of those little kids were African Americans. Let’s pretend one of those little AA kids really, really, admired his coach. Let’s pretend that the little kid went to the same party as these teachers. Anybody around here wonder what that little kid is feeling once he spies his teachers? Anybody around here wonder how that coach is going to explain to that little kid why everybody got such a good laugh at his clever costume? Anybody around here know how the coach is going to explain to the little kid white people showing up in blackface isn’t offensive? No mock was intended.
Would it be ok for a teacher of the deaf to show up as a “dummy”. How about a teacher of the blind to show up in dark glasses and a cane? How about your kid’s shrink showing up in a straight jacket? An addiction therapist to show up as a junkie?
Just one more question….how many of you would wear these teacher’s costumes to the White House Halloween party?
You can take your pc and insert it where you keep your brains.
“Laws are not “a fallback,” they are the cornerstone of any civilized society.”
Nick,
Do you always go so far out of your way to attack the position of those who disagree with you. What LK said was pretty clear and pretty insightful.
“Po, Good manners boundary awareness and empathy make for a pretty good society, laws are pretty much a group fallback for people the that don’t get that. If it is a choice between the First Amendment and good manners, I have to go with the First Amendment but I’m all for manners and empathy. I’ve enjoyed your contribution to this thread and look forward to reading your postings in the future.”
Po’s point and LK’s was about people in society needing to be civil with each other, not about legislating it. Are you deliberately being obtuse on that so that you can spout you particular proclivities. We all get it that you like to offend, or in your words “bust balls”. I’ll even take you at your word that you have a bevy of Black friends and you are sensitized because of your adopted son’s heritage. However, when you make a statement like this I call it bullshit:
“I was called names as a kid. My adopted son was called “spic.” We both are stronger for dealing w/ it.”
Johnny Cash’s “A Boy Named Sue” was not real life. Being bullied as a child, and I too was bullied, doesn’t make someone either a better, or a stronger human being. Can it be overcome, of course, but to somehow deny the lifelong emotional pain that is caused by being anathematized and bullied as a kid is merely counterfactual to what we know about the psychology of living. The real problem with your attitude in that statement is that you equate what you suffered and what your son suffers, with what people of color have gone through in this country and are still going through. You are not racist but in interpreting what is going on from the false perspective of “whatever doesn’t kill you, makes you stronger” is taking a Country song and applying it to life.
The end game of those who you lie down with is not the gregarious give and take of the rough bonhomie between men, but the actual continuing oppression of people of color in this country. Whatever ethnic slurs you experienced as a child were minimal in comparison to what an average person of color has experience in their lives and by tossing the truth of that off so cavalierly you show that you simply don’t give a damn.
Now we see that the most PC political bloc in this country are the Tea Party, who threaten to unseat any person not following their particular party line, but I can’t recall you ever taking issue with the and you did pooh pooh their government shutdown.