There is a troubling case out of Boiling Spring Lake, North Carolina, where a family says that police were called to assist them with their son, Keith Vidal, 18, who was having a schizophrenic episode. After tasering and holding down the boy, an officer shot and killed him. The family says that the police pointed out that he had a screwdriver but they say that the screwdriver was tiny and could not have hurt anyone and that Vidal, who was being held down by multiple officers, was only 90 pounds.
The lawyer for one officer insisted that the media has gotten the story wrong but, after calling the media to his office, declined to give specifics. There is overlap in the public accounts however. Detective Bryon Vassey has been placed on leave in connection to his involvement in the shooting that occurred after police arrived at the house at 12:34 p.m. The original officer was joined by two other officers after the first unit reported a confrontation in the hallway. Radio calls said that the matter was under control but then just 70 seconds later, Unit 104 radioed out that he had to fire shots at the subject in order to defend himself.
The family says that Vidal was tasered repeatedly and pinned on the ground. They insist that an officer said, “we don’t have time for this” and shot the boy between the officers holding him down. Vidal was a high school student who had no history of harming or threatening others.
Indeed, according to stories, the family says that the father was prevented from disarming the boy. Their account states that, when the first officer entered the home, Vidal was abrasive and grabbed a small electronics screwdriver. However, two officers began to negotiate with him and calm him down. But the family says that another officer from a neighboring jurisdiction entered and “instructed the officers to stop talking and Tase Vidal.” When Vidal turned to leave, the officers tasered him and he collapsed backwards as the officers jumped on top of him. They then say that “Vidal’s father tried to step in and grab the screw driver” but the Southport police officer who had instructed the other officers to use their Tasers is quoted as saying “we don’t have time for this” and shot Vidal in the chest.
The case raises obvious questions of the necessity of excessive force, a question that we have seen in other cases of elderly or disoriented individuals (here and here and here and here and here). The concern is often magnified in comparison to other countries with much lower rates of police shootings. It is important to get the officers’ account on these cases but thus far the department is releasing little new information. Officers often have to act with only seconds to consider their options. However, this is a case of a small kid who has been repeatedly tasered and was actually being restrained by at least two officers. Indeed, when I first read the coverage (and given the alleged comment of the officer just before the shooting), I thought we had another case of an officer confusing his gun with his taser. Yet, the family insists that the officer said that he had to protect his fellow officers with the use of lethal force.
These cases often end up in litigation, particularly when the family is unable to get a full account from the officers. Under Tennessee v. Garner, 471 U.S. 1 (1985), lethal force is permissible when a law enforcement officer is pursuing a fleeing suspect if the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others. Obviously, an officer can use lethal force to protect himself or his partners or others from serious harm or death. Yet, an electronic screwdriver held by a 90 pound boy in this circumstance does raise serious questions of excessive force in my view.
Source: NBC
Kudos: Steve Katinsky
Randy,
For first degree murder you need premeditation….. With the guy that shot the kid it might be easy to charge but hard to prove based upon his statements …..
Actually I have heard that premeditation does NOT take days or previous history to be first degree murder. It can be a matter of seconds depending on intent, which is a hard thing to prove admittedly without some history. For example, seeing a person of a group of people that the killer has expressed a hatred for such as blacks. The case of the KKKers dragging to death Mr. Bird in Texas. They did not sit around plotting to kill him. They saw him and decided to kill him. That took only a second. The same pertains to the kid in Jackson,MS where a white spoiled brat decided to run down a black man in the parking lot just for kicks.
randy, When you make comments like charge w/ “First degree murder” you shoot yourself in the foot, as it were.
Well Nick it is better than shooting a defenseless kid in the chest for sure. Since I am not a legal professional, maybe you can tell me what the legal elements are for a first degree murder charge.
I’d like to add that I believe it to be increasingly important for their to be accountability for police chiefs who quickly and/or publicly absolve their officers of wrongdoing, when those officers later are found to have acted improperly or criminally. Depending on the magnitude of their improperly protecting their officers from due process, this accountability should range from their employment, civil liability, and potential criminal penalty.
From the accounts in the newspaper this looks like a case of excessive force by one of the cops on the scene. Apparently the other two deputies had the matter under control when the detective arrived. According to witnesses he was in a hurry and had the deputies taser the kid despite no obvious aggressive move with the screw driver. I’d let all the facts come out but the prosecutor vows to let the evidence play out and the chips fall where they may.
It becomes ever more clear that one should never call the police for help in controlling a family member or friend that you care about, unless you are at grave risk. Never. The evolution of this force is such that greater and greater risk is presented with their appearance.
Alain, related to your prediction, it has been reported that officers have since been cleared, in very short order, of any wrongdoing by their police chief, though it appears there may be multiple jurisdictions. It is far too rare an occurrence that this statement from a department it is not automatically forthcoming, though we do see some honorable exceptions.
There has been a recent story reported on this blog that in a city in Texas, there is an administrative rule put in place by the chief of police that officers are not permitted to make statements as to what happened for three days, until they confer with other officers involved and review the evidence. It does not take much cynicism to believe this rule is designed to allow officers to construct a narrative that abdicates them from accountability while taking greater care to not conflict with the facts as they are known. This process is dubiously sold to the public as a means to get the most accurate account of events.
It is important that accountability not be limited to an officers job, in such circumstances, if the evidence suggests this taking of this boys life was unjustified.
I think that this needs to be looked at by a grand jury now. At the very least, this cop should be indicted and charged with first degree murder. I think that since the kid was white, he will stand a good chance of going to prison or execution. This is one case where I think the death penalty should be applied for its deterrent effect on other cops.
A cop can fix any problem that comes their way. With a bullet.
What will they do, you ask? They will shoot as many civilians as possible to prove how dangerous we are and how justified they are. There is still no word in Illinois from the State Police on the murder-by-cops of 95 year old WW2 vet John Wrana. Gunned down with shotgun bean bags inside a nursing home.
Lrobby99….ditto
What is the definition of “probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others.”?
Have we reached the general vicinity of a paper cut?
What will police departments do with the specter of loosing drug war money as prohibition fades away?
issac,
Their budgets are bloated right now.
They are supposed to work for the people, but they will not.
This is not just one case, it is one of thousands that happens everyday now.
They won’t go after known crooks in govt or on Wallst so they are of no use to the public, in fact they’ve become the major threat towards the public.
Cut the hell out of their budgets until they can be brought back under control.
When the police harm more than they help…. They are akin to the Gestapo in my opinion….
The cops barrister stated, what all reasonable people know, that there are always 2 sides of the story. That said, his not divulging any defense other than the aforementioned generic one, means he knows his client is in some deep shit. He knows he’ll be giving that other side of the story to a jury. Manslaughter appears to be the correct charge. Than, a jury decides. A flawed, but the best system of justice.
If this is true, then it was murder, plain and simple. There is no argument for manslaughter. The police officer, with two others holding the boy down, made a calculated decision and killed a boy. Perhaps he is stressed out. Perhaps he is mentally ill. Whatever the reason, it is murder.
Oky1-perhaps this is the calibre of police officer we get with reduced budgets. It is not the police in most of these incidents but the quality of the officer. Some officers should not be getting on the force. They are simply unstable. We need, as with teachers, to spend more time and money obtaining the best, not whatever we can find.
**but the Southport police officer who had instructed the other officers to use their Tasers is quoted as saying “we don’t have time for this” and shot Vidal in the chest. **
We don’t have time for this either, cut their budgets Now, cut it by 2/3rds!
The officers were unable to put hand cuffs on the boy after they pinned him down? Tasering a mentally ill, under weight 18 year old (why was the boy underweight)? Parents were unable to calm him down?
Was it legal at that point for the father to open fire on the cops who just opened fire on his son?
Clearly excessive force. Murder or manslaughter on the criminal side. Wrongful death on the civil side.
I don’t favor owning guns or restricting their use by capable sportsmen, but I do think I understand why many want a gun: to protect themselves from criminals AND the police.
Dont call the Police unless you want someone dead . They are cold blooded murdering scum and no doubt his Chief will say he acted appropriately. The Pigs have declared war on society and the Constitution and they know they can do whatever they feel like in this corupt system. Probably give the monster a medal.
As I have said, the most lethal danger to the average American, who is not involved in a criminal enterprise, is the paramilitary police force.