Our erstwhile ally Afghanistan President Hamid Karzai is back reminding American citizens of the waste of thousands of dead and wounded U.S. soldiers and hundreds of billions of dollars. Karzai has refused to sign an agreement to keep a significant number of troops in the country for training and counter-insurgency operations — an agreement guaranteeing more U.S. losses in lives and treasure that the Obama Administration wants signed. Karzai however has been negotiating with the Taliban to force the U.S. out and return them to power in a sharing arrangement with this government. In the meantime, he is repeating his condemnations of the United States as a “colonial” power and alleged that insurgent attacks were actually staged by U.S. forces. I understand that the “enemy of our enemy is our friend” but what about the friend of our enemy?
We have been discussing the continuing gushing costs of the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq while we cut basic programs and services. I was happy to even see a member ask about the costs. Most politicians have refused to risk the political costs of being blamed for a withdrawal or a perceived defeat. As a result, our personnel were left in harm’s way, even as the country’s president called us “demons”, our allies denied basic rights to woman and religious minorities, and polls showed intense anti-American sentiments. Hundreds of billions were spent to provide political cover for leaders who needed to show that they were tough on terror. Of course, while calling the U.S. demons and liars, Karzai continued to demand billions in aid and bags full of cash delivered to his personal office.
While publicly suggesting that he has fought to end the war, the Obama Administration has been struggling to keep troops in the country with the promise of the continuation of huge amounts of aid in one of the most corrupt governments on Earth. Ironically, with their fortunes improving on the field, the Taliban do not appear that enthusiastic about teaming up with Karzai and he may be forced to sign the agreement. The Obama Administration will then have another foreign policy victory: an agreement with a man who declared us to be the enemy and tried to reach an alliance with the Taliban who has killed U.S. soldiers so that we can spend billions more to prop up his corrupt government.
In the meantime, U.S. citizens are being told of the need to cut environmental, scientific, and educations programs for lack of millions while we are fighting to given Karzai and his government billions more in support, military operations, and government contracts.
It reminds me of that great line in Three Days of the Condor when an intelligence officer (Higgins) speaks to the head of the agency about his storied career as they plot the death of an innocent former employee played by Robert Redford:
Mr. Wabash: I go even further back than that. Ten years after The Great War, as we used to call it. Before we knew enough to number them.
Higgins: You miss that kind of action, sir?
Mr. Wabash: No, I miss that kind of clarity.
Perhaps the thing I miss the most is not the loss of principle (which was abandoned by the Obama Administration years ago) but the clarity as to who exactly is the bad guy in this war.
Source: NY Times
There are those of us “mere mortals” who knew the fraud that he was…i noted this in my “ordinaryfaces blog” back in 2008,…we should not be really shocked now. 🙂 http://ordinaryfaces.blogspot.com/2008/01/karzaithe-wests-poodle.html
Two empires, one at the height of its power, were unable to fully impose their will upon Afghanistan. Why the United States presumed it could do better is a question I’ve never been able to answer. Although hubris comes to mind.
“There was never a good war nor a bad peace.” Benjamin Franklin
isaac:
Since the concept of national sovereignty is apparently of little consequence in your world, perhaps someone ought to propose to the government of Mexico that special elite units be sent across the border to eliminate U.S. based elements in the drug trade that has cost so many Mexican lives.
The bottom line from the beginning was to root out and destroy those who attacked the US on 9/11. It was not to rebuild Afghanistan except in a way that might aid the US in finding and destroying these extremists. So, the politicians in Afghanistan, like politicians everywhere, including in the United States, are working sometimes with the idea and sometimes against it, depending on which side their toast is buttered. For other examples of this just follow the republicans and the special interest groups such as the Koch brothers and the NRA.
I, for one, do not understand why the US is asking permission to stay in Afghanistan if it serves the objective of destroying the nut cases that behead people for dancing to western rock and roll. The US is leaving the antiquated concept of war as exhibited by the three stooges, that got us into a quagmire of Iraq and bungled Afghanistan. The future of warfare is the locating of the enemy and the, as surgically as possible without collateral damage, waxing of said enemy.
If if serves the goals of the US then the US military should keep as many troops and bases as the US thinks necessary in the area until the job is done. The enemy was based in Afghanistan and the Taliban protected them. Why is this so difficult to understand? Drone bases, armed bases from which to launch attacks where ever and when ever the enemy is located should not have to have anything to do with the people of Afghanistan. These bases could be self-sufficient, totally protected, and in areas where they do not impact the population.
Afghanistan is a large country with lots of empty spaces. The US should lay down the bases, search out and destroy the terrorists/Taliban, and burn a few poppy fields at the same time. If the Afghanistan government wants to go along then they can. If they don’t want to then that should not have anything to do with the goal at hand, destroy the enemy.
Mr. Karzai is a warlord with a college degree. Our presence in that country is a product of ignorance covered by a veneer of arrogance. Mr. Karzai is negotiating with the Taliban because he understands his country, which means that he understands that Afghan security forces are only as strong as their commitment to nationhood, and that that commitment cannot exist in a society in which political alignments are primarily a function of tribal loyalties. He has long recognized American foreign policy “experts” as fools, has financially milked the United States for as long as possible and is not about to sign an agreement which links his personal fortunes to a relationship with us. When we leave, weep only for the women and children of Afghanistan, who will once again become the victims of religious fundamentalism.
So why are we in Afghanistan exactly? Oh yea, there were training camps for some people that didn’t like us. wait, that was 14 years ago. Oh I remember, we are there to ensure girls can go to school? Ooops, the schools are closing. I know, we are there to prevent another terror attack? I’m confused.
It seams hard to believe but I am pretty sure Obama took a bad situation left him by his predecessor and made it worse. How do you F up so bad? What are we protecting? What is our goal now?
Justice Holmes…..
There has been nothing good that has come out of the relation with him….. It’s cost lives, money…. And more…l
“reminding American citizens of the waste of thousands of dead and wounded U.S. soldiers”
I think he’s more concerned about the waste of hundreds of thousands of dead and wounded Afghans – it’s ongoing.
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“one of the most corrupt governments on Earth.”
Corruption is like a tango. It takes two to do it.
How about one of the most corrupting governments on Earth – that e.g. delivers bags of cash? Or works to topple elected governments in e.g South America and install puppet dictators in their place?
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“negotiating with the Taliban
It’s all very well for Westerners to bemoan this while sitting on their arses eating burgers and chips. People in the ME have to live with each other. You either negotiate or you crush. So invade this country called Taliban, bomb its cities…right? Win the War on Terror. A couple of years max.
In the meantime, the people in those countries have to live with perpetual war.
You can’t defeat them? OK. Negotiate.
Why not. The US negotiated with, trained and armed the Taliban in order to get the Soviets out of Afghanistan.
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“denied basic rights to woman and religious minorities,
Well, that’s not acceptable. So invade Saudi Arabia. That’s who we’re talking about right? 🙂
If we want countries to be democratic, we invade Egypt right? – rather than handing billions to the generals who run regular coups and imprison their opposition.
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One of the issues that Karzai has a problem with is raids on Afghan houses by US forces. There is also a feeling that the US and western allies are not much bothered by collateral damage to Afghans.
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Here is a WaPo atricle from 2011 that illustrates some problems
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/top-secret-america-a-look-at-the-militarys-joint-special-operations-command/2011/08/30/gIQAvYuAxJ_story_4.html
‘Top Secret America’: A look at the military’s Joint Special Operations Command
Extracts: (with comments)
“We’re the dark matter. We’re the force that orders the universe but can’t be seen,” a strapping Navy SEAL,…
( “Orders the universe” – longhand for Colonial )
The president has given JSOC the rare authority to select individuals for its kill list — and then to kill, rather than capture, them.
Created in 1980 but reinvented in recent years, JSOC has grown from 1,800 troops prior to 9/11 to as many as 25,000, a number that fluctuates according to its mission. It has its own intelligence division, its own drones and reconnaissance planes, even its own dedicated satellites. It also has its own cyberwarriors, who, on Sept. 11, 2008, shut down every jihadist Web site they knew.
It also made mistakes. On July 1, 2002, in what the Rand Corp. labeled “the single most serious errant attack of the entire war,” a JSOC reconnaissance team hunting Taliban came under attack and an AC-130 gunship fired upon six sites in the village of Kakarak. The estimates of civilian deaths ranged from 48 to hundreds. The “wedding party incident,” as it became known because a wedding party was among the targets accidentally hit, convinced many Afghans that U.S. forces disregarded the lives of civilians.
(a few paragraphs on abuse/torture of captives, followed by…)
JSOC had to use the rules laid out in the Army Field Manual to interrogate detainees. But its interrogators were — and still are — permitted to keep them segregated from other prisoners and to hold them, with the proper approvals from superiors and in some case from Defense Department lawyers, for up to 90 days before they have to be transferred into the regular military prison population.
(Pressing Karzai’s button….)
Every JSOC raid that also wounded or killed civilians, or destroyed a home or someone’s livelihood, became a source of grievance so deep that the counterproductive effects, still unfolding, are difficult to calculate. JSOC’s success in targeting the right homes, businesses and individuals was only ever about 50 percent, according to two senior commanders. They considered this rate a good one.
(50 percent at best is GOOD?. Bet you the 50% plus who were wholly innocent didn’t think it good.)
“Sometimes our actions were counterproductive,” McChrystal said in an interview.
( Yeah! Right!)
JSOC troops also detained mothers, wives and daughters when the men in a house they were looking for were not at home.
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Read the whole article and weep.
It ends with some inforamtion on JSOC office in Washington and their wish to take their secret and unaccountable operations into Mexico and domeastic.
The whole military/indistrial show is out of control.
John Falcon
In many forums now, I have posed the question of what we have accomplished in Afghanistan. I have never gotten an answer. As I see it we have killed a lot of people, enriched a handful of cruel warlords and tinpot politicians, fattened a lot of crony contractors, and made the world safe for increased production of heroin. Don’t even talk to me about women’s rights or girls’ education. When we have left and the world again looks in the other direction, the people of that country will return to business as usual.
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Indeed.
And the heroin that killed actor Phil Hoffman recently probably came from Afghanistan poppies.
Oh yes, let’s not forget something else: the last five years or so of this war are Obama’s baby. He could have extracted us when he became president, but he did not.
In many forums now, I have posed the question of what we have accomplished in Afghanistan. I have never gotten an answer. As I see it we have killed a lot of people, enriched a handful of cruel warlords and tinpot politicians, fattened a lot of crony contractors, and made the world safe for increased production of heroin. Don’t even talk to me about women’s rights or girls’ education. When we have left and the world again looks in the other direction, the people of that country will return to business as usual.
I think this guy needs an exploding cigar.
Time to go and time to stop the spigot of money to Mr. K.
“… the clarity as to who exactly is the bad guy in this war …” – JT
Any and all participants of a bad war, which is all wars.
Propaganda tells us there are good wars, but that is false.
It also leaves us fighting the last “good war” while looking for an even “better next good war” under the influence of a mythological trance.
Like all addictions, war is a disease that requires remedial treatment instead of the typical jingoism.
“If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.” – James Madison
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“Of all the enemies to public liberty war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded, because it comprises and develops the germ of every other.
War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes; and armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few. In war, too, the discretionary power of the Executive is extended; its influence in dealing out offices, honors, and emoluments is multiplied: and all the means of seducing the minds, are added to those of subduing the force, of the people.
The same malignant aspect in republicanism may be traced in the inequality of fortunes, and the opportunities of fraud, growing out of a state of war, and in the degeneracy of manners and of morals, engendered by both.
No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare.
Those truths are well established.” – James Madison
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“Experience has shown that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.” – Thomas Jefferson
Bush blew whatever opportunity there was in the graveyard of empires when he turned to Iraq. Our troops and President Obama have tried their best to salvage what we could and put in a stable government responsible to the Afghans; but Karzai and his family are too damned crooked and ass trustworthy as an asp. So lets just bring the troops out NOW and let Karzai reap the whirlwind.
Moderate away, Professor, if I’ve violated ‘standards, I apologize…. It just need to be said, and no one else was doing it.
I am torn.
I do not believe that we Americans are adequately informed about the issues/people/stakes in the Afghan war. We just don’t know enough to evaluate our policies. Both our government and our press have failed us on the information front.
Many of the comments made about in the article are inflammatory soundbites (“bags full of cash delivered to his personal office.”), but I suspect that foreign policy in that part of the world is a cynical, dirty business.
Looking back at recent “interventions” (Vietnam, Nicaragua, Dominican Republic, et al) it is only with the passage of time that we start to gain some clarity.
Look at the our involvement with the Diems in Vietnam (their rise to power and subsequently, the coup that killed them). They went through the typical American cycle of being allies, incompetents, victims, villains and today being recognized as symbolic of our many mistakes in Vietnam.
Bottom line, we are ignorant and being manipulated by our government – I don’t think that we know enough to conclude anything – except that we don’t like what is going on.
I see Karzai’s refusal to sign the defense agreement as a good thing. Let’s leave him and his fate to the Taliban. He deserves them and they him. Let’s leave tomorrow.
“The Looming Narco-State in Afghanistan”
“Afghan farmers are growing more opium today than at any time in recent memory, according to America’s watchdog in the country.”
D.B. Grady Jan 15 2014, 7:39 PM ET
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/01/the-looming-narco-state-in-afghanistan/283114/
Excerpt:
As the U.S. military withdraws from Afghanistan, so too is the Drug Enforcement Agency. Forget advising forces in Helmand and Kandahar provinces—the twin poppy capitals of the world. As the inspector general reports, “without military support for security, intelligence, medical evacuation, and tactical air control for high-risk operations, DEA will have little ability to extend its operations beyond Kabul.” The upshot is the DEA is soon to become yet another U.S. agency ensconced at our fortress in Kabul, sealed behind Roman testudo-style blast walls and fences draped with anti-sniper netting.
Sopko concluded his testimony with an ominous assessment of things to come. “The people I spoke with in Afghanistan in my last few trips talked about two possible outcomes following the 2014 transition in Afghanistan: a successful modern state, or an insurgent state,” he wrote. “However, there is a third possibility: a narco-criminal state. Absent effective counternarcotics programs and Afghan political will to seriously tackle this grave problem, that third outcome may become a reality.”
Let’s hand Karzai over to his people. Non US security team and no money. Additionally we want a refund. We need to leave Afghanistan now.