Karzai: Americans Are “Demons”

We have previously discussed Afghan President Hamid Karzai stated inclinations toward the Taliban and harsh treatment of women. Then there was Karzai’s recent position that women are worth less than men — presumably even those American women keeping Karzai and his corrupt family and friends in power. This week Karzai has added that Americans are “demons” and no better than the Taliban. Karzai then called for divine intervention to defeat the Americans and the Taliban — a dangerous call in a nation known for religious fanaticism: “Let’s pray for God to rescue us from these two demons. There are two demons in our country now.”

Karzai insisted that there will be no forgiveness for the Americans regardless of claims that the recent burning of Korans was done by mistake. Karzai has declared that those “Satanic acts that will never be forgiven by apologies.” He went out of his way to tell citizens that they should not believe this was an isolated incident. Noting that the recent massacre of civilians by an American soldier was just the latest atrocity committed by the American “demons.” That shooting, he insisted, “was not the first incident, indeed it was the 100th, the 200th and 500th incident.”

Karzai’s words will only encourage those people in the Afghan military who continue to kill Americans. We have had regular occurrences of Afghan soldiers turning their weapons on their fellow U.S. soldiers at checkpoints and military bases. Karzai’s statements will only reinforce the view that dying in such attacks are religiously justified and constitute martyrdom to secure a place in paradise.

Just for the record, the United States and its allies have lost 2,845 “demons” in Afghanistan fighting for Karzai and his people. Wounded personnel are over 7,000. Added to this sacrifice are the hundreds of billions spent by our government while we slash our own educational, scientific, and social programs across the country.

In the meantime, the Karzai family and its allies continue to be accused of stealing hundreds of millions of dollars. The U.S. has continued to pump in billions despite the widespread corruption — treating thefts as a cost of doing business in the country with only occasional efforts to curtail the practice. Yet, one Afghan official stated “Karzai wants revenge on the U.S. because of the systematic insults he has suffered, that he feels his family suffered, because of Kabul Bank.”

The Obama Administration continued the Bush policy in keeping forces in the country and spending billions as polls showed growing hatred toward the United States and growing instability in the Karzai regime. We continued this support as Karzai and his government embraced medieval religious practices and repeatedly denied basic rights to religious dissidents and women. The result has been years of support for a government that rejects the core principles upon which our nation is founded and has increasingly denounced our military forces as evil and the enemy. It is perfectly Felliniesque.

Source: NY Times

58 thoughts on “Karzai: Americans Are “Demons”

  1. Reminds me of “No One Gets Out of Here Alive”… Unfortunately….. Even Bush couldn’t trust Karzai…..and he knew it..

  2. Can we have a massive bug out from Afghanastan like we did from Saigon? I think there is about the same level of support for the war as there was then.

  3. Glen Greenwald points out one of the things that outrages the world, not just Karzai alone:

    That likely means that there will be some substantial interaction between Bales and Manning. Think about that: if you expose to the world previously unknown evidence of widespread wanton killing of civilians (as Manning allegedly did), then you will end up in the same place as someone who actually engages in the mass wanton killing of civilians (as Bales allegedly did), except that the one who committed atrocities will receive better treatment than the one who exposed them. That’s a nice reflection of our government’s value system (similar to the way that high government officials who commit egregious crimes are immunized, while those who expose them are aggressively prosecuted). If the chat logs are to be believed, Manning decided to leak those documents because they revealed heinous war crimes that he could no longer in good conscience allow to be concealed, and he will now find himself next to a soldier who is accused of committing heinous war crimes.

    (Salon). I suppose that the powers that be in D.C. think being hated by 7,000,000,000 people in the world has no consequences.

  4. Yes, Afghans should be more grateful for being invaded and occupied for ten years.

    The night raids and drone strikes will continue until morale improves.

  5. Only if the Republican women’s rights haters agree to do a Jonestown.
    But first they have to repeal the laws they’ve made.
    And will sing “ain’t gonna do war no more….” as their swansong.
    Chances?
    But a da capo of the the helicopters lifting would be nice to see.

  6. That shooting, he insisted, “was not the first incident, indeed it was the 100th, the 200th and 500th incident.”

    Where is Wikileaks when…..oh yeah, Manning is in the klink.
    But it would be nice with some tactical reports to get ev. “collateral damage” reports from out side. How many do you think there would be during a 10 year war? More or less than 500?

  7. As was painfully obvious with the Bush Presidency, he is just a figurehead now. And this was confirmed by the Obama administration running Bush’s third term.
    180,000+ war contractor’s, all paid in CASH, (kickbacks anyone?) are now in competition to see who can deplete the US treasury the fastest.
    Obama’s only “change” is to even more tightly secure the reins of dictatorship. Making peaceful demonstrations illegal, & signing this bill into law against the first amendment.

    Karzai: Americans Are “Demons”

    No Mr Karzai, Americans in general are not, just the ones in the background running our government!

  8. JT:
    “We continued this support as Karzai and his government embraced medieval religious practices and repeatedly denied basic rights to religious dissidents and women. The result has been years of support for a government that rejects the core principles upon which our nation is founded and has increasingly denounced our military forces as evil and the enemy. It is perfectly Felliniesque.”

    The professor insists on saying medieval. I would insist on saying Abrahamical. Or if I had the knowledge: Semite, Sumerical, Harrappan, or just plain patriarcha.
    Which brings us aroung to modern America and the Republican surge.

    But we are there not because of our nobleness, no, it is simply good business for the MIC, it keeps the TIC supplied with a motivation, and it secures our oil (Afghan as potential transit land) and now mineral resource for rare earth metals.

    So trumpeting out our losses without showing the corresponding civilian casualties smacks of????? jingoism, well it smacks of one-sided arguments.

    I have full respect for our troops, but not our leaders.
    Nor for the CIA mercenary ops who with purposedly mixed weapons took out 16 civilians at night outside Kandahar. Why the mixed weapons? To show Afghans that it was more than the one gunman as in the USA story, and to thumb their noses at Karzai. Which is why Karzai is so hot.

    It is a game with mirrors. We took out Bin Laden with heicopters and troops in Pakistan. We could have taken him out when he was in Afghanistan, but we “kept” him there as an excuse for war. It’s that simple.

    The figures on collaterl damage are an even higher ratio to our losses, but that’s another story.

    The wars for doing the right thing (forgot the technical term which Chomsky used—-english empire term from 1800s) were BS from the beginning, and still are today. It’s so ironic that they use our democratic basis as motivation, while now the Prez can kill us all whenever and whereever he pleases. All the other civil rights violatition they have done are too long to list. Claining they are saving other peoples while suppressing their own, for ex OWS, etc.

    Your hatred JT of medieval types should be instead directed to partriarchical types. But that includes many countries.

  9. Oh yes, they were “humanitarian motivated wars”.
    And the our casualty versus their civilian casualty (collateral) losses was meant to be those incurred in Iraq, after Bush did his speech on “Mission accomplished” on the aircraft carrier.
    Geez, what a despicable figure he was then, and is.
    I sure we could collect our coins for a worthy cause, but I dare not say which, but you know I’m sure.
    Talk about war crimes.

  10. I reed the comments as far as Carol, and then stopped as I don’t want to play tagalong after the others.
    Now have begun reading and will comment on them. With eventual embellishment.
    Gene H. said:
    “That’s a nice reflection of our government’s value system (similar to the way that high government officials who commit egregious crimes are immunized, while those who expose them are aggressively prosecuted).”

    What I tried to say in my address to JT. We praise and refer to our “core values”, when in fact the government does not give a damn about them, as the recent and not so recent (patriot act) laws show.
    In addition, I don’t believe Bales is guilty of anything other than taking an offer from the CIA to be the fall guy, while they executed an mercenary (Libyan?) multi-person op, since as mentioned they púrposely staged it so as to leave incontrovertible evidence that it was more than a one-man job.
    Thus giving Karzai the finger in front of all the Afghanistan people.
    What out is left to him except to declare America non-grata?

    Demons, it may be an old expression but it is one used by Christ many times. And it sure fits us in the eyes of the world where we have been declared by the peoples thereof as the greatest terror threat to mankind.

    Suck on that!!!!

  11. Sorry, that was Dredd’s comment I quoted. Apologies for wrong (tillskrivelse) writer name. But the ,u ideas are clearer than the comment source, and perhaps more important.

  12. Dredd quoted:
    “(Salon). I suppose that the powers that be in D.C. think being hated by 7,000,000,000 people in the world has no consequences.”

    Let’s be clear, it is, in spite of Karzai’s rabble-rousing (which our leaders never do—irony), the people of the world do not hate Americans.
    They hate the man who walks down their village streets with a gun in his hand, whether he is Taliban or American. They understand it is our government who sends these soldiers. So don’t misunderstand them.

    I get about 10 help visits a week, just now it is a Kurdish girl from Turkey and an Indian girl. They’re doing my laundry, etc.
    Like ALL of these foreign helpers, all non-Europeans, they show their apprreciation of the American people and occasionally their distaste for our government. Both the girls today are well-educated: the Indian one knows about the Harappan culture, Sanskrit, and the modernization of India, where they are more and more ignoring their own cultural past.

    So if you see some in America, take the chance to talk to them. They know much more than you think. The opportunities are there to be had.

    The fight for the spotlight and profit within the American media is more than healthy, I feel. Re: Greenwalds comment.

  13. idealist707 1, March 21, 2012 at 8:21 am

    ….
    The wars for doing the right thing (forgot the technical term which Chomsky used …)

    idealist707 1, March 21, 2012 at 8:27 am

    Oh yes, they were “humanitarian motivated wars”.
    ========================================
    Absolutely unbelievably, it has been going on in plain sight for generations because of the great power of American Propaganda:

    The enemy aggressor is always pursuing a course of larceny, murder, rapine and barbarism. We are always moving forward with high mission, a destiny imposed by the Deity to regenerate our victims, while incidentally capturing their markets; to civilise savage and senile and paranoid peoples, while blundering accidentally into their oil wells.

    (Myth Addiction …). That quote was written in 1944, nearly seven decades ago.

  14. JT said:
    ” Karzai then called for divine intervention to defeat the Americans and the Taliban — a dangerous call in a nation known for religious fanaticism: ”

    Professor,
    From the above you appear to ignore or perhaps approve of the repeated religious prayers and sermons supporting our war there.
    Prayers, are said in Congress, in churchs here, and chaplain call on God when praying for our troops there.

    I am not defending Karzai.
    I am condemning the hypocrisy of condemning prayer there and ignoring our own here. The civil war was perhaps our worst example, but should not be emulated by you.

    It’s not your prayers, it’s your condemnation I oppose

    As for fanaticism, talk about that to Santorum and his supporters, or to the evangelicals, Mormons, dominionists, atheists, etc.
    When will you criticize them?.

  15. idealist707 1, March 21, 2012 at 9:08 am

    Dredd …

    “I suppose that the powers that be in D.C. think being hated by 7,000,000,000 people in the world has no consequences.”

    Let’s be clear, it is, in spite of Karzai’s rabble-rousing (which our leaders never do—irony), the people of the world do not hate Americans.
    ===================================================
    There will never be 7,000,000,000 total, but the point is that there seems to be a foreign policy attempt to make it so.

    Here is a mention of a congressional report from 2008:

    On June 11, 2008, the United States House of Representatives, Committee On Foreign Affairs, issued a report titled: The Decline in America’s Reputation: Why? It will be referred to in this post as “The Decline Report”. Now that folks have had time to digest the report, perhaps revisiting it will remind us of the uphill battle to regain our reputation, which we may never do, or if we do it could take a generation.

    The subcommittee chairman said this within The Decline Report, in an overall statement that summed it up:

    The data presented at these hearings make it clear that people in other nations don’t “hate us because of our values”— but rather that they are disappointed with us because we aren’t always true to those values.

    (The Decline Report, Preface, bold in original).

    (Decline of U.S. Reputation – Why?). There is a link to that congressional report which has the details.

    The U.S. reputation has only gotten worse since 2008, for obvious reasons.

  16. ID:

    most Indians in this country I know are doing pretty well. A good many are wealthy having taken advantage of the relative economic freedom we still enjoy. As a group of people they have done quite well here. From restauranteurs to high tech entrepreneurs, they do better than most Americans.

    I dont know what their true thoughts about Americans are, but they have always been very kind to me and I have universally found them to be very good people. And the added benefit is that when you go to lunch or dinner you get to go to an Indian restaurant.

    I dont thin it too much to say that Indians are a really great people at least from my personal experience.

  17. So true Dredd, so true. Glad to see the report. Wonder if it got any MSM coverage. Would that it could be used to counter the constant drumbeating about the “terrorist” threat.
    Now they would have us watch neighbors, customers, collegues at work, etc And of course it’s in accord with the HomeSec and FBI missions. But the people at the top should be setting limits, but are not. Besides they have so many buddies as contractors, etc.

    It will be soon a Stasi nation.
    Thanks for the links.

  18. Christine Noble,
    Was that Karzai or Obama you were referring to?
    It may have been irony, since we’ve all lost our cherry to our politician long ago.

    But don’t believe the Afghans are naive about Karzai. They are not, but there is a power structure there, just as here; which requires certains speechs in order to retain support. Of course you know that, excuse me for mentioning it.

  19. We aren’t really all that good at instituting puppet governments are we? They always seem to turn on us.

  20. Yes, we do have an excellent track record on supporting tyrants, even ones like Karzai who are only pretending to turn on us so other warlords won’t overthrow him.

    Dredd and Greenwald make important points that US citizens should not turn away from. Our soldiers do appear like demons to many of the world’s civilian populations. US soldiers are not committing isolated atrocities. They are put in a positions where atrocities should be expected as the norm, which they are.

    What this govt. is doing, both to our soldiers and other nation’s civilians is unconscionable. This cruelty, this human misery, is all being done for the financial profit of a few people at the top of the food chain. US puppets grab what they can, while they can. They also care nothing for the welfare of their people or nation.

    There are reasons that US citizens do not see pictures of what is really happening in the govt.’s many wars of empire. They are the same reasons we are told our soldiers are heroes and why sporting events are filled with tributes to war and death. We cannot be allowed to see the truth because we might stop what is happening. Further, we might not give over our children to the brutal suppression and slaughter of innocents this govt. engages in. We might not want our own children so brutalized and used by a govt. that cares nothing for their welfare.

    Stop this cruelty! Use every peaceful means.

  21. Jill:

    pretty good.

    I would disagree on one point. Government makes all of this possible. The corporations are taking advantage of an opportunity like trout take advantage of a hatch.

    We just need to change the senate and the congress every 4-6 years. Vote for the independent if they believe in limited government and individual freedom.

    Stop voting your party and start voting for people who will protect our rights.

    I want to hear a candidate say “get rid of the fed, set term limits on congress, go back to having states pick the senators, eliminate lobbying and have a 2 year waiting period before a congressman or senator could go to work for a company doing business with the federal government”.

    We could clean this up in 2 election cycles if people actually gave a rat’s ass. Congress likes that power and if you humble those scumbags a few times maybe they will get the idea. If this keeps going on like it is, one day we are going to throw them out and they wont leave.

    The other thing is to make it a whole lot easier to fire federal employees who arent doing their jobs.

  22. Karazi is negotiating for a future with Taliban ascendence. The writing is on the wall. He knows the US needs him as a prop, but that’s all.

  23. Bron,

    I think that you are not seeing that govt. and corporations are the same entity with different names. This is more clear in other nations, (see Shell in Nigeria) but because of propaganda, isn’t so clear to US citizens.

    However, we could do something about both. We could use our vote to elect people who aren’t war mongers and financial criminals. Many people think they cannot do this, but they can. They are terrified of having a specific war and financial criminal in power but not horrified by having someone who is a war and financial criminal in power as long as it’s “their” party. This has only one result-more war, more financial crimes, more human misery.

    Corporations and the govt. are an interlocking directorate. That directorate needs to be widely exposed to our citizens. Corporations put people in place in govt. and the govt. sends their people to run corporations. I read your Stossel article and was struck by how on message both right and left wing propaganda is. He was shilling for the banks as surely as Obama. Free enterprise needs rule of law to function. We don’t have rule of law anymore and this is in the process of tearing down a functioning system of commerce and govt. Bad news on every account.

    We do agree that people must care about others in order for things to get better.

  24. Blouise,
    Who are you pointing at?
    —————
    “Another American Dream brought to you by your friendly CIA operatives.”
    —————
    I once said you must be a CIA translator since you were making the rounds on what might have been Moroccan blogs. And you came back with needing to read recipes, with harissa.
    So ‘fess up.

    As ro your comment, I can at least say they are doing something.
    When Ishmael Jones was stationed stateside and wanted to get overseas they didn’t do doodly squat where he was. Don’t know if you’ve read his book.
    He as a former wall streeter was proficient in making cold calls, so when he got to that domestic CIA office, he sat down with the phone book and the same day started making cold calls to possible agent recruits. There immediately developed a panic in that office. A fun read.

  25. From article:
    “Just for the record, the United States and its allies have lost 2,845 “demons” in Afghanistan fighting for Karzai and his people.”

    There are no selfless wars I can recall in my lifetime and there are no selfless reasons we have ever been in Afghanistan. We armed the ‘rebels’ the Taliban, to fight the Russians, then we paid the warlords and peasants to not grow opium, then we put boots on the ground to deny Al queda safe havens and then the rationale, the goalposts were moved again and again. Now, in the face of rampant corruption and hatred by the locals and Afghan government, I don’t know why we are there. Seriously, are we still there to help train the police so they can secure their own country from something or other?

    Decade+ long wars without clear goals or exit strategies, waged arbitrarily, have made me cynical. We’re there because we can be and it served some purpose we were probably never told the truth about to begin with. That’s the best I can make of it these days. It’s way past time that we should have left.

  26. “…Benjamin tells some of the stories of the families shattered by drones and the hatred created by the constant buzzing sound that the drones make in the skies above the homes of people who know that at any instant they can be killed. President Obama has instructed the government of Yemen to keep a reporter locked up whose crime appears to be having reported on the victims of a U.S. drone strike. When the drones strike in Pakistan, local death squads swoop down on the area to grab anyone whom they suspect of having collaborated with the Americans. Families live in fear of both the drones and the raids that follow. Over a million
    people, by Amnesty International’s estimate, have fled the areas of heavy drone bombing.

    Drones have killed Americans in “friendly fire,” including on April 6, 2011, in Afghanistan. Afghans have killed CIA drone pilots and other U.S. officials inside their offices. Even drone “pilots” working in the United States can commit suicide. They are suffering extremely high rates of stress and burnout, according to the Air Force. Pilots who actually fly in planes often do not see what they kill. Drone pilots sometimes watch a family for days, feel like they’ve gotten to know the people, and then blow them all up, and watch the suffering…” warisacrime.org/David Swanson

    Is this who we are?

  27. You know folks, it is odd. Most of this has already been played out in SF.
    It’s not even deja vu to see it now, there’s not surprise value in seeing it happen in reality.

    Like Glenn Greenwald just wrote; He can’t pose a hypotherical to test the limits of what Obama can violate. It’s all already in place. How do we describe this?

  28. If we look back 32 years the Soviets occupied Afghanistan. They were occupiers with troops and an agenda. They allowed women to go to college and take off the head scarf. Progressive things. America, in its exceptionalism, did not want the Soviets in Afghanistan and so we undermined them by giving money, guns, training to the only opposition we could find– Islamic holy rollers like the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt and Saudi Arabia. We created the al qaeda and Taliban.

    Today I would take the Soviet occupation over ours. What do you folks think?

  29. Jill:

    the government and corporations are not the same. The government has the power and corporations must dance to the piper’s music or suffer economic consequences.

    If the government told you to do something or face economic sanctions or extended litigation what would you do? Most corporations are in the exact same position we are, except their pockets are deeper for the picking.

    You clean up government and corporations will behave.

  30. As for Bales the fall guy, the contracted scape goat.
    Here’s what Greenwald selected from the NYTimes to quote:

    “(4) I have an Op-Ed in The Guardian on the quick removal of Bales from Afghanistan and the resulting exclusion of Afghans from the investigation into what happened. Today, The New York Times explains the serious difficulties this could pose to Bales’ prosecution:

    “The case could founder in the courtroom on questions of evidence collected under difficult conditions thousands of miles away, . . . .Gathering evidence and securing the cooperation of witnesses can be bedeviling in far-flung places, and contributed to the collapse of the prosecutions against Marines linked to the killings of 24 men, women and children in the Iraqi city of Haditha. Charges were dropped against most of the Marines who were tried in that case.”” End NYTimes.

    My feel: It was a CIA/mercenary job, leaving purposely proof for Afghan parliamentary investigators to find that it was a multi-man op. The use of helicopters was for that purpose also. The mercenaries could well with GPS have found their way to the op area several klicks away from a drop area. It was a FU gest to Karzai and the peoples’ reps.

    Bales was given a deal he could not refuse: all he had to do was to leave under arranged conditions, go hunker down and await a signal to returns, and confess. His chances of getting off with a medical discharge are excellent after a symbolic misdemeanor charge. The sympathy drums have been beaten since the deed was announced. Don’t need to repeat them.

    He’ll be well-compensated for life. His case will be closed quietly after the election. And it’s a warning to Karzai: “We can take you out whenever we wish, protests or no”

    Our government is just as interested of evidence as the Sanford FLA police were.
    Hope you understand. It’s all staged. like the trials in ’38 in USSR. Only with other outcomes. But definitely for scare effect and public consumption.

  31. TD,
    Yep, that’s right. Remind me to tell the story of the two Afghan dykes who were trained helicopter pilots, part of a larger story—-incredible.

    Anyway the point now
    The Russians were after resources, just as when GB and we cut them out of the Iranian oil pool pre WW2. Other incentives too, there always were.
    But one can ask how did they succeed so well as you write in changing local families into taking the “veil” off the women? Did they really, or was it for show in Kabul only?

  32. Bron,

    There are corporations and there are corporations. You have your own business correct? I know many people like you. They mostly work their butt off and they are usually providing a needed service in our society. This kind of business must obey the govt. unless the owner has a connection to one of the many petty authorities who will smooth the way for her or him to flout the law. That is one kind of corporation.

    Now you have another kind. These are companies which do not have national boundaries. They buy govt.’s around the world and they have successfully purchased our own. They use the govt. as cover to set their own monetary policy, write regulations that help them wipe out legitimate competition (yes,they do like regulations), allow them to commit open fraud and accumulate public wealth into their private hands. I truly urge you to go to naked capitalism to read about these types of things.

    For example, Obama’s new mortgage deal has made it lawful to foreclose on a home in error. That home could be yours, mine or really any other person who doesn’t have the money or connections to stop the foreclosure. You don’t have to be in arrears, you could have made every payment and be on your last one, but they can still take your home. Investors will also be screwed with this new deal. Yes, technically it was the govt. apparatus which allowed this but it was the bankers, the really big fraudulent bankers, who wanted this, wrote it and got it done. Tyranny comes not just from govt. but from any entity which has no controls over it.

    Military contractors have “better”, even more deadly equipment that US special forces. They are able to use this power to subdue populations in other nations. True, they use our tax funds to do so but they are law unto themselves. They are already involved in helping to crush OWS. They shot 4 people right after Hurricane Katrina. They are here. They are what capitalism is all about now. These are the new “rules”. You will not be free under the tyranny of private contractors or large banks.

    Bron, you have to see past ideology on this one. This isn’t capitalism the way conservatives like yourself think about that. This is raw, brutal force done by private companies. For now they are working in the US mostly through the govt. But in other nations they don’t really need a govt. to play pretend. They just run things in the open. That’s what is coming here unless people rise to meet the challenge.

  33. Blouise Presidents come and go … the CIA remains.

    And from the look of it this is really a ‘click’ of the people in the Skull & Crossbones…and a few other well connected families…

  34. Jill and bron,

    You both make valid points. Kariza was most disloyal to bush too…… But the area is living and breathing with us made and acquired weaponry…..therein lies the rub….the CIA runs it all with piles of cash….the reason is to keep Russia out……this is a strategic point for the US.

  35. For Professor Turley and all Americans inclined to feel aggrieved at the apparent ingratitude of American-installed foreign puppet rulers, I suggest a brief mediation on the following:

    From Shakespeare’s The Tempest:

    Prospero

    “Abhorred slave,
    Which any print of goodness will not take,
    Being capable of all ill! I pitied thee,
    Took pains to make thee speak, taught thee each hour
    One thing or other: when thou didst not, savage,
    Know thine own meaning, but wouldst gabble like
    A thing most brutish, I endow’d thy purposes
    With words that made them known: but thy vile race,
    Though thou didst learn, had that in’t which good natures
    Could not abide to be with; therefore wast thou
    Deservedly confin’d into this rock,
    Who hadst deserv’d more than a prison.”

    Caliban

    “You taught me language: and my profit on’t
    Is, I know how to curse: the red plague rid you,
    For learning me your language!”

    From Frances Fitzgerald’s elegant and informed book, Fire in the Lake: the Vietnamese and the Americans in Vietnam:

    “In an interview with Pham Van Dong, one American asked the North Vietnamese foreign minister how he could call the Saigon government an ‘American puppet’ when it acted with such consistency against American interests. ‘Ah,’ replied the minister, ‘it’s a puppet, all right. It’s just a bad puppet.’”

    Bad Pupped Syndrome, clearly. Of course, America has a long history of treating its so-called third-world “allies” as of little consequence and not worth consulting on issues vitally affecting them. Hence, going all the way back to World War II, as Barbara Tuchman noted in, Stilwell and the American Experience in China, 1911-1945:

    “Cynicism about the war and a lapse into increasing passivity was the result [of shutting China out of top-level alliance positions]. An attitude of ‘Let the Allies do it’ prevailed in the teahouses of Chunking after the fall of Burma. To use barbarians to fight other barbarians was a traditional principle of Chinese statecraft which now more than ever appeared not only advisable but justified [emphasis added]. Chinese opinion, according to a foreign resident, held that not only was China justified in remaining passive after five years of resistance; ‘it was her right to get as much as possible from her allies while they fought.’ The exercise of this right became the Government’s chief war effort. The long endeavor to shake off the foreigners and emerge from dependence had not succeeded; China’s problems had been too great. With dwindling capacity to cope with its own circumstances, the Kuomintang [<b<client] applied all its energy to making dependence pay” [emphasis added].

    In summary, Professor Turley, we have here nothing at all new or surprising. Just the typical Bad Puppet Making Dependence Pay

    I trust you require no further edification on this subject.

  36. John

    Blouise Presidents come and go … the CIA remains.

    And from the look of it this is really a ‘click’ of the people in the Skull & Crossbones…and a few other well connected families…

    ===========================================

    It certainly does look that way and this continued inbreeding is producing noticeably intellectual deformities.

  37. Jill:

    “They use the govt. as cover to set their own monetary policy, write regulations that help them wipe out legitimate competition (yes,they do like regulations), allow them to commit open fraud and accumulate public wealth into their private hands. I truly urge you to go to naked capitalism to read about these types of things.”

    I agree with you, I know all about it and it is why I want government out of economics. Any free market capitalist is philosophically opposed to what you rightly condemn. We are sick about it, probably more so than people on the left who use those examples as a way to say “look capitalism doesnt work and so we need more government controls”.

    Corporations which go to government to set prices, to destroy competition, to get favorable regulations are not philosophically capitalist in nature; they are either fascist or socialist.

    Capitalism is about freedom and that includes the freedom to fail.

    There are many good people in business who believe in freedom but government has so polluted the environment that to swim you have to compromise. The only way you will ever clean this mess up is to have economic freedom coupled with objective law.

    Did you know Paulson, in 2008, forced healthy banks to take TARP money so the people would not know which banks were solvent and which werent?
    They were forced by government to take money they did not need and to pay it back with interest. Think about that, that isnt freedom and it certainly isnt capitalism. At least organized crime provides “protection” for their shake downs and they dont force you to borrow money you dont need.

    Government did that, no matter what others may say the financial crisis and the depression we are in was caused and has been extended by government intervention in the economy.

  38. Michael Murry,
    Most elegant, inclusive and conclusive—–of course i say so hearing my basic opinion confirmed. Your rendering is unmatchable.
    Thank you, Sir.

  39. Blouise,

    Recommend Ishmael Jone’s book Human Factor, about the CIA and his career there. Layers are created in the CIA to insulate from responsibility. At one point he had 8 layers above him whose approval was required for any operation he proposed. He actually outranked them all, but did call a meeting with all eight to argue his case and to save the op being delayed, as it was an opportunity of timed value.

    You’ll enjoy it, even the picture of how bureaucratic it all is.
    The true story of how ops were called down in the whole of Europe because a lack of hotel rooms due to Olympic Games! And that is only a start.
    Here’s a guy who stayed in the field longer than any op in modern times, and published his book without approval—–as they stalled it for years.
    All profit, USD 28K was donated to charity to keep the gov from seizing it.

  40. PS in an appendix Ishmael has a long list of recommendations of improvements he wishes were put in place. Probably this was why the book was stalled. In terms of revealing damaging field info, he exposes less than Robert Baer does.
    Also he was a family man who took his family with him under his cover.
    Another view of spying.

  41. Here’s an analysis group sponsored by governments of Sweden, Norway, Denmark and Netherlands, all of whom have troops in Afghanistan. Its been in operation for 3-4 years.

    Afghanistan Analysts Network (AAN)
    about them:
    http://aan-afghanistan.com/index.asp?id=2

    quote from AAN:
    “I have encountered almost no Afghan who believes it could have been one person acting alone, whether they think it was a group or people back at the base somehow organizing or facilitating it,” Kate Clark of the Afghanistan Analysts Network told the Guardian. (The AAN is funded by four Scandanavian governments, all of which have troops in Afghanistan).” Salon

    Note posted in Salon

    “Over at Salon Jefferson Morley asks, Did Sgt. Bales have help?”
    Willy Loman blog sourse

    J.Morley:
    “A group of Afghan parliamentary investigators has concluded that Bales was part of a group of 15-20 soldiers. As Outlook Afghanistan reported Monday, “The team spent two days in the province, interviewing the bereaved families, tribal elders, survivors and collecting evidences at the site in Panjwai district.” One of the parliamentarians told Pajhwok Afghan News that investigators believed 15 to 20 American soldiers carried out the killings.”.

    My take stands, Bales is a bought fall-guy for CIA opn.

  42. Latest tip on Kandahar massacre:

    “OK, men, I know you’re not satisfied after the IED took H.’s leg off; your buddy, right Bales? Well, the line-up of the villagers last week and the threats you gave then have been judged as not enough. So now we go for blood. Just like it says in the Bible: Strike the heads of babes against stones, and spare no one.

    I understand Bales has volunteered to take the fall and the medical discharge. You’re brief, right? He’ll be hunkered down waiting for the rest to come back. Can’t afford him getting over-charged cuz of his buddy. He might take one of us out too.

    So you guys know that this has been approved, in usual order. So let’s show how professional we are, and no slip-ups.

    Any questions? Then the usual rules and leadership is in order. Do it.”

  43. QUOTE “Bin Laden won.”

    Or the puppet master behind the Bush administration….even with the propaganda machine going full blast it was painfully obvious that 9-11 buildings were blown up…especially when the plane never reached building #7 and it STILL WENT DOWN.

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