Submitted by Elaine Magliaro, Weekend Contributor
Cliven Bundy, the Nevada rancher and scofflaw, was hailed by some people as a folk hero and patriot recently when he—and his followers–engaged in a standoff with the Bureau of Land Management (BLM). Caty Enders (Esquire) described the scene in Bunkerville, Nevada, as pundits and politicians descended on the Bundy camp last week “to throw in their American flag hats with the BLM protestors.” She said that a FOX News van had been parked by the side of the road for days—and that “militia snipers kept a trained watch” up on a ridge “as Bundy held court.” She added that disciples of Bundy came from far and wide “to share their personal theories as to why the government was enforcing a court order.”
Bundy has had a number of advocates who have spoken in support of his militant stance against the BLM. Those advocates included some prominent politicians and members of the media. Sean Hannity was one of Bundy’s biggest boosters and helped to make him into a folk hero. Hannity talked with Bundy on a number of occasions on his Fox News show. Joan Walsh (Salon) asked a pertinent question about Bundy on Friday: “How does a guy who declared early on ‘I don’t recognize the United States government as even existing’ become a folk hero in the first place?” She said that both Hannity and Fox News should have realized that the Nevada rancher was “too toxic” prior to his “ongoing self-exposure as a racist.” She added that the extremism of Bundy’s statement about the US government “should have been warning enough that Bundy was not only crazy but dangerous…”
Enders posed a question that was in the same vein as Walsh’s: “Exactly how difficult was it, though, to determine pretty early on that Bundy and his followers were using the threat of force to back up some terrifyingly misguided beliefs?” Enders provided some insight into the thinking and beliefs of Bundy and disciples of his with whom she talked.
Members of the Bundy Brigade Speak Out
Enders spoke to a militia member named Mark who was affiliated with the Oath Keepers group. Mark explained to her “the truth behind public land management.” He said, “The assumption is that the BLM is part of the federal government. But we need to check the facts on that one. The BLM doesn’t work for the government: they work for the United Nations. They might as well be wearing blue helmets. If we find out there’s money being exchanged between Harry Reid and the Chinese government, no one should be surprised.”
Another Bundy disciple told Enders that “Bar-certified lawyers, like the ones who prosecuted Bundy, have sworn loyalty to the British government, whose statutes encourage sex with clients. ‘That’s what they do with all their clients.’”
Enders spent time talking to a former cop who chuckled as he related a story about one of his buddies who once worked as a sheriff in New Mexico. He said his buddy got into some trouble after he pulled over a group of illegals one night. He said his pal “didn’t have room to haul ‘em all, so he put a chain around their neck and put a padlock through it, went to the next one, then he chained ‘em to a tree!” Enders said that the former cop then buckled with laughter as he told her how his friend “left ‘em and went to town to get his pickup to haul ‘em all back in. So, you might imagine, that didn’t play well — ha! You’re a young’un, but everything wasn’t against the law, way back when.” The former cop also told Enders that it was now being proved that the Bureau of Land management was acting on orders “from Troy and Harry Reid, who want to build a solar farm on the land — or a wind farm.”
One of Bundy’s disciples drove a beige sedan covered with the following message:
IF YOU WERE BORN IN 1980 AND AFTER. YOU MAY BE IMPLANTED WITH A GOVERNMENT MICROCHIP WITHOUT YOUR KNOWLEDGE: GOOGLE DOCTORS THAT REMOVE MICROCHIPS.
Cliven Bundy, God’s Messenger
During the time that Enders spent at the Bundy camp, she witnessed one of the public addresses the Nevada rancher made to his followers. She said that as Bundy—who had just been given a standing ovation—took the stage, he didn’t seem pleased. She said that Bundy reproached the crowd “for failing to follow the word of God – to the letter …”— which he claimed was being “delivered through him.” He wasn’t happy that his supporters failed “to follow his instructions to tear down the toll booths at Lake Mead and disarm the Park Service.” Bundy added, “The message I gave to you all was a revelation that I received. And yet not one of you can seem to even quote it.” He continued, “The records of our bible — how long have they been kept? Thousands of years. They’ve been turned over generation after generation, buried, and all kinds of things happen to ‘em. And yet, here, something I felt was inspired [by God] and yet we haven’t even carried it forth for even a couple of days. Shame on us.”
Bundy expressed frustration because his followers hadn’t been able to deter the BLM “within an hour”—“as the revelation had prophesied.” When an hour had passed, Bundy reportedly got into his bulldozer and decided to march on the BLM himself. His dozer got stuck in the mud—and that led to Bundy’s receiving yet another revelation: “It come to my mind real plain — the good Lord said, ‘Bundy, it’s not your job, it’s THEIR job.’” Bundy reiterated that revelation a little differently in an effort to ensure that his followers understood what he had just told them, “This is not my job, it’s YOUR job.”
Bundy said that he received a message that morning after he prayed. He claimed that he heard a voice say, “Sheriff Gillespie, your work is not done. Every sheriff across the United States, take the guns away from the United States bureaucrats.”
Uncivil Disobedience
Even The Weekly Standard–as well as Glenn Beck–has been critical of Cliven Bundy. The magazine’s Scrapbook explained the whole Bundy situation with regard to grazing fees and court rulings. The Scrapbook said that what had transpired over the years didn’t sound “like the dread hand of tyranny, in Nevada or Washington, oppressing an innocent farmer, or pushing some law-abiding citizen around.” It said it sounded, instead, “like a rancher gaming the system to his own financial advantage, and disguising his scheme in populist rhetoric: refusing to pay a tax which others must pay, and ‘tying up the courts’—for two decades!—as he continues to ignore the law.”
The Weekly Standard:
Far from acting in an arbitrary or capricious manner, the federal government has shown patience and forbearance in the face of lawlessness that customarily lands people in jail. It is worth noting that Bundy’s rancher-neighbors and the Nevada Cattlemen’s Association, who contend with the same federal policies, offer him little support.
Apocalypse Cow – Welfare Rancher, Part 1 (The Daily Show)
Apocalypse Cow – Welfare Rancher, Part 2 (The Daily Show)
SOURCES
Fox News’ new laughingstock: Cliven Bundy — and Stephen Colbert — will destroy Sean Hannity (Salon)
Uncivil Disobedience (The Weekly Standard)
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Scott it makes my stomach turn.
Annie points out that people die while waiting for disability, and Nick’s answer is:
“People waiting for the bus. People die waiting to be seated in a restaurant. People die waiting for the bathroom. People die waiting for Guffman”
Witness Glibertarianism, in all its glory!
http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/editorials/2012/07/14/getting-disability-benefits-has-become-harder-over-the-years.html
Getting disability benefits has become harder over the years.
Nick:
“during the first 5 years of his presidency increased 20%”
Still no link, but at least a paper. You really should do your own footnotes, man.
And what was going on in Jan of 2009, Nick? Care to add the context, or do I have to do it again?
Then, explain to us how what was happening on the last day of the administration of The One Who Must Not Be Named is Obama’s fault? Because he didn’t immediately do MORE things that the GOP didn’t want him doing at all? Like more stimulus, especially on infrastructure, something that until Jan 20 2009 Republicans supported, provided it was in Baghdad?
“Since Obama not only have the number of people approved on initial application skyrocketed, but so have the claims on appeal, putting the SS Disability Fund on the brink of insolvency[HuffPo!!].”
Since there is no link here, I must wonder if it was the HuffPo that said ALL that last bit, or just that bit about the brink of insolvency?
See, again, you want to take all those people (and I still question your numbers, and your claim of sources, since there are no links) from the Little Bush Depression and blame them on Obama. It’s quite disingenuous and would get you laughed out of most courtrooms.
oliveoyl,
I’ll go back and read it, but I think it was followed by (paraphrased) now just go away and leave me alone.
But your comment points out something that I now wonder if it was deliberate… IIRC there was no adressee.
I’ll check it out. Thanks
Olive, It’s up to Chuck to determine if they were disparaging, not you. I find your comments to me disparaging. I find many comments to me disparaging. Now, let’s just end this tit for tat, please. How about some substance. The only comments you make are attacking me on something I’ve said, not an ounce ot substance, all personal.
Darren Smith
“The Lions of Discord”
Darren, I’m often dismayed at how people on a lawyer’s blog are surprised enough to call a sorting out of facts “discord.”
We’re still in the discovery phase here. If we can’t even agree on basic things like welfare isn’t full of a bunch of moochers, then we’re never going to get to the part where we actually argue different philosophies on how to deal with the facts.
Historically, this is often what the side whose ideology conflicts with facts does. They try to smear those who collect the facts. They shift blame (and costs). They Gish Gallop.
Witness the recent moves by the North Carolina Republicans to pretend global warming isn’t going to affect their wonderful shoreline.
Or the entirety of this comment section.
Randy, I hopefully can have a constructive conversation w/ you. SS disability claims approved during the first 5 years of his presidency increased 20%Baltimore Sun]. SS was notorious for denying claims and forcing people to appeal. Then some would receive benefits, they made you go out and get an attorney which always seemed a bit collusive. Since Obama not only have the number of people approved on initial application skyrocketed, but so have the claims on appeal, putting the SS Disability Fund on the brink of insolvency[HuffPo!!].
Nick, I find your reasoning rather funny. You assert that people who REALLY DO deserve disability were denied wrongly on application and had to hire an attorney to get what they were SUPPOSED to get in any case. Then you admit that the applications have been improved and more claims are not needed to be appealed. I would think that would be cause for joy on your part. I wish that my truly disabled wife could have had this time to present her case. Then you say that more people are pressing such claims which is explained by the baby boomers who are aging and thus getting more illnesses. That is a FACT of life.
The REAL outrage is that we don’t tax the wealthy to pay their fair share and instead seek to balance the books on the backs of the middle class by taxing more, and cutting benefits to those who have less or nothing. The easiest and fairest tax would be to remove the limit on upper income FICA taxes. That would solve the problem for all time. At one time, I could pay off my FICA tax, but thanks to Reagan, he made that impossible. I have to say that I did not object too much if it meant that SS would be solvent for the future. I was willing to take that kind of a hit, so I cannot see why those who can pay it off will not join me in paying on ALL of their income. Of course, I was stupid enough to think that I had an obligation to my country as a citizen and pay my taxes and do my civic duties. I even went further, and volunteered for the military in the Vietnam War era. I have to admit that I was in error in supporting the end of the draft because I thought the American people were intelligent enough to know that they OWED their country service and would act accordingly in matters such as paying a fair share of their money to benefit their country. Too bad that the wealthy only think of themselves and can care less about the country and people that make their life possible.
“drive out the minority”
That ain’t me, man. I’m all for you talking all you want.
“Paul is facing the same gauntlet.”
Thank you for the complement, but Dredd is much better. Or Annie.
I do understand that facing facts is hard on ideologies that depend on ignoring them. Whether it’s a single hoax proving evolution is wrong, or a snowstorm proving global warming wrong, or you saw some fraud in the system so that means it’s rampant and all Obama’s fault for changing the law back in 1984…
“We’re still here.”
Testify!
http://www.marketplace.org/topics/economy/disability-claimants-wait-and-wait
Disability claimants wait… And wait… And wait…
Nick,
Now your reading comprehension is brought into play:
“I have disparaged no one. The quote used to show disparagement is not that @ all. I have disparaged no one who legitimately collects disability.”
Yet I said:
“. . . disparaging response to Chuck.”
Hmm, what did you say to Chuck, let’s see:
“The numbers are everywhere Chucky. I just gave some.”
First, you call him “Chucky”; your favorite tactic – shame the name.
Second, your “just gave some” without any source was “Chucky’s” point, and so you regurgitate with the assumption that quantity equals quality; which is true of most of your ramblings.
Third:
“Read them and get back to me if you have any questions.”
Read what – the “everywhere numbers”? Punctuated with the facetious, “get back to me if you have any questions.”
Fourth:
“They’re everywhere w/ a quick Google search.”
Those damn “everywhere numbers” keep cropping up, uh? Just, “a quick google search,” which implies “Chucky” doesn’t know how to do this.
And then the wrap-up : “Anything else.” Which pretty much sums up your denigrating response to “Chucky.”
Yeah, I would call this whole response to “Chucky” as disparaging:
http://jonathanturley.org/2014/04/26/gods-messenger-cliven-bundy-his-wacko-disciples-and-uncivil-disobedience/#comment-1051297
——————————————-
“Feynman, In just the past 2 days you have said I answered your question, which I clearly did not, you have gotten some basic reading of comments backwards. . .”
This is true, Feynman, Nick was addressing Paul.
People waiting for the bus. People die waiting to be seated in a restaurant. People die waiting for the bathroom. People die waiting for Guffman, wait that is wrong.
The Lions of Discord discover another feeding ground, their appetites entreated by many.
http://billingsgazette.com/news/state-and-regional/wyoming/a-dying-wish-bill-would-decrease-waiting-time-for-social/article_bae6ec12-be4d-564e-9e7b-8594676597c2.html
More stories of people dying on wait list for SSDI.
Nick: “According to government figures, disability claims have skyrocketed in the past decade.”
What figures? Where on CNN?
However, if you’re really interested in why Social Security disability has increased, you should look no further than Ronald Reagan.
http://www.nber.org/bah/fall06/w12436.html
“The most important factor is the liberalization of the DI screening process that occurred due to a 1984 law. This law directed the Social Security Administration to place more weight on ap-plicants’ reported pain and discomfort, relax its screening of mental illness, consider applicants with multiple non-severe ailments, and give more credence to medical evidence provided by the applicant’s doctor.
“These changes had the effect of both increasing the number of new DI awards and shifting their composition towards claimants with low-mortality disorders. ”
And, yes, we do see increases in enrollment during recessions, and during recoveries. However, to suggest, as you did, that this is Obama’s fault is, um, not in the ballpark. Is that OK to say? Or maybe I could call it Sunni Conservatism and see if that gets by the censors? Eh, Nick?
But let’s look at what you did. You started your math in 2003. The second year of the administration of The One Who Must Not Be Named. When He left office in 2009, GDP was NEGATIVE 9%, and job losses were at 800,000 per month.
IF the GOP would pass an infrastructure bill, we could be jump-starting our economy in investments that more than pay for themselves while the money to do it is cheap and a bunch of people need jobs.
So, not only is the recession that partially caused a rise in disability claims not Obama’s fault, but neither is the slow recovery.
Now, the other problem here is that claims does not equal awards. Getting awarded disability is not easy, but it is easier, thanks to Ronny. Please, go read and learn. It’s how a mere stagehand could rise to the great height of arguing with you.
“How can the recession make someone disabled??? ”
Wow. And you claim to be an expert on this stuff. OK, then. When jobs are plentiful, many disabled people work. They, like most other people, like to work. Work, especially for older folks, pays considerably more than the big fat pillow all those lucky duckies sleep on in your dreams. Average payments are what? $1400 a month?
http://playspent.org
But when a recession hits, and that person gets laid off, they are a kind of woodwork disability. They were, say, before 2003, to just pull an example out of thin air, working, while the economy rode the Clinton/Gramm/Greenspan/Rubin/Summers stock bubble to great heights. Then, when that goes away, they realize they can, at the very least, get what for which they already, technically, could have qualified.
Further, while Republicans are in the WH, we tend to get a backlog of cases because the administrative judges that hear the appeals aren’t replaced fast enough to keep up with the growth in the program. When this backlog is remedied by the Democrat who comes into office, he is then blamed by Republicans for the increase.
Neat little trick, huh?
“fake an injury or disability because you don’t want to work a “demeaning job.””
Go get them, Nick! Seriously. Bust those a-holes. I hate fraud in the system. How much fraud is there? (I like percentages) How much do we fund the people who look for it? Please, tell me. You’re the expert!
But I do know that it is incredibly hard to fake an injury past the MDs that are specifically looking for fakers. Are there some MDs who might be helping people qualify who shouldn’t? I’d bet it’s a low percentage. But we should most certainly investigate that, and we should make sure those investigative units are properly funded.
“There is indeed an influx of new and pernicious trolls flinging insults, asking questions 50 times, being infantile, and they are being encouraged by malcontents from other venues.”
Self awareness is not your strong suit, Nick.
I’ve been reading the Professor’s blog since the Countdown days. I value his input, but I do like to chide him for his support of Citizens United.
I most certainly do not want his blog to fail. I particularly enjoy the weekend bloggers, when I have a little more time on my hands. Commenting just takes up too much time and effort I would prefer to put into other things.
“I have disparaged no one. ”
Please see my comment above RE self awareness.
“pernicious trolls”
“infantile”
“encouraged by malcontents”
“Shiite liberal”
Keep talking, Nick.
Feynman, In just the past 2 days you have said I answered your question, which I clearly did not, you have gotten some basic reading of comments backwards, you have gotten basic facts wrong, and now you have claimed I disavowed my own source which is wrong. There are other weird stuff but this is just off the top of my head. I am biting my tongue until it bleeds. There are other venues that are echo chambers. I’m sure you know some. Jonathan has made it clear this will never be an echo chamber. And, smarter people than you have tried to harass, bully, kick me out of here like you and a few others are currently doing. EVERYONE coming @ me are liberal..EVERYONE. There are some solid commenters and GBers who have no problem w/ me. They too understand that an echo chamber is just not what this blog will be, no matter how people try and drive out the minority. Paul is facing the same gauntlet. A couple others have also. We’re still here.
http://wivb.com/2014/02/06/social-security-long-wait-for-disability/
People are dying on the wait list for a hearing after being denied for SSDI.
“Get deadbeats on the dole and then you got a Dem vote. I bet there are some on some dole here”
Disparaging?
Annie,
I’d say “sneered”.
Mr. Spinelli,
If you are now going to disavow your own source, perhaps you could provide another.
Also. We would appreciate the actual link. We won’t blame you if it is tainted.