Submitted by Elaine Magliaro, Weekend Contributor
Cliven Bundy, the Nevada rancher and scofflaw, was hailed by some people as a folk hero and patriot recently when he—and his followers–engaged in a standoff with the Bureau of Land Management (BLM). Caty Enders (Esquire) described the scene in Bunkerville, Nevada, as pundits and politicians descended on the Bundy camp last week “to throw in their American flag hats with the BLM protestors.” She said that a FOX News van had been parked by the side of the road for days—and that “militia snipers kept a trained watch” up on a ridge “as Bundy held court.” She added that disciples of Bundy came from far and wide “to share their personal theories as to why the government was enforcing a court order.”
Bundy has had a number of advocates who have spoken in support of his militant stance against the BLM. Those advocates included some prominent politicians and members of the media. Sean Hannity was one of Bundy’s biggest boosters and helped to make him into a folk hero. Hannity talked with Bundy on a number of occasions on his Fox News show. Joan Walsh (Salon) asked a pertinent question about Bundy on Friday: “How does a guy who declared early on ‘I don’t recognize the United States government as even existing’ become a folk hero in the first place?” She said that both Hannity and Fox News should have realized that the Nevada rancher was “too toxic” prior to his “ongoing self-exposure as a racist.” She added that the extremism of Bundy’s statement about the US government “should have been warning enough that Bundy was not only crazy but dangerous…”
Enders posed a question that was in the same vein as Walsh’s: “Exactly how difficult was it, though, to determine pretty early on that Bundy and his followers were using the threat of force to back up some terrifyingly misguided beliefs?” Enders provided some insight into the thinking and beliefs of Bundy and disciples of his with whom she talked.
Members of the Bundy Brigade Speak Out
Enders spoke to a militia member named Mark who was affiliated with the Oath Keepers group. Mark explained to her “the truth behind public land management.” He said, “The assumption is that the BLM is part of the federal government. But we need to check the facts on that one. The BLM doesn’t work for the government: they work for the United Nations. They might as well be wearing blue helmets. If we find out there’s money being exchanged between Harry Reid and the Chinese government, no one should be surprised.”
Another Bundy disciple told Enders that “Bar-certified lawyers, like the ones who prosecuted Bundy, have sworn loyalty to the British government, whose statutes encourage sex with clients. ‘That’s what they do with all their clients.’”
Enders spent time talking to a former cop who chuckled as he related a story about one of his buddies who once worked as a sheriff in New Mexico. He said his buddy got into some trouble after he pulled over a group of illegals one night. He said his pal “didn’t have room to haul ‘em all, so he put a chain around their neck and put a padlock through it, went to the next one, then he chained ‘em to a tree!” Enders said that the former cop then buckled with laughter as he told her how his friend “left ‘em and went to town to get his pickup to haul ‘em all back in. So, you might imagine, that didn’t play well — ha! You’re a young’un, but everything wasn’t against the law, way back when.” The former cop also told Enders that it was now being proved that the Bureau of Land management was acting on orders “from Troy and Harry Reid, who want to build a solar farm on the land — or a wind farm.”
One of Bundy’s disciples drove a beige sedan covered with the following message:
IF YOU WERE BORN IN 1980 AND AFTER. YOU MAY BE IMPLANTED WITH A GOVERNMENT MICROCHIP WITHOUT YOUR KNOWLEDGE: GOOGLE DOCTORS THAT REMOVE MICROCHIPS.
Cliven Bundy, God’s Messenger
During the time that Enders spent at the Bundy camp, she witnessed one of the public addresses the Nevada rancher made to his followers. She said that as Bundy—who had just been given a standing ovation—took the stage, he didn’t seem pleased. She said that Bundy reproached the crowd “for failing to follow the word of God – to the letter …”— which he claimed was being “delivered through him.” He wasn’t happy that his supporters failed “to follow his instructions to tear down the toll booths at Lake Mead and disarm the Park Service.” Bundy added, “The message I gave to you all was a revelation that I received. And yet not one of you can seem to even quote it.” He continued, “The records of our bible — how long have they been kept? Thousands of years. They’ve been turned over generation after generation, buried, and all kinds of things happen to ‘em. And yet, here, something I felt was inspired [by God] and yet we haven’t even carried it forth for even a couple of days. Shame on us.”
Bundy expressed frustration because his followers hadn’t been able to deter the BLM “within an hour”—“as the revelation had prophesied.” When an hour had passed, Bundy reportedly got into his bulldozer and decided to march on the BLM himself. His dozer got stuck in the mud—and that led to Bundy’s receiving yet another revelation: “It come to my mind real plain — the good Lord said, ‘Bundy, it’s not your job, it’s THEIR job.’” Bundy reiterated that revelation a little differently in an effort to ensure that his followers understood what he had just told them, “This is not my job, it’s YOUR job.”
Bundy said that he received a message that morning after he prayed. He claimed that he heard a voice say, “Sheriff Gillespie, your work is not done. Every sheriff across the United States, take the guns away from the United States bureaucrats.”
Uncivil Disobedience
Even The Weekly Standard–as well as Glenn Beck–has been critical of Cliven Bundy. The magazine’s Scrapbook explained the whole Bundy situation with regard to grazing fees and court rulings. The Scrapbook said that what had transpired over the years didn’t sound “like the dread hand of tyranny, in Nevada or Washington, oppressing an innocent farmer, or pushing some law-abiding citizen around.” It said it sounded, instead, “like a rancher gaming the system to his own financial advantage, and disguising his scheme in populist rhetoric: refusing to pay a tax which others must pay, and ‘tying up the courts’—for two decades!—as he continues to ignore the law.”
The Weekly Standard:
Far from acting in an arbitrary or capricious manner, the federal government has shown patience and forbearance in the face of lawlessness that customarily lands people in jail. It is worth noting that Bundy’s rancher-neighbors and the Nevada Cattlemen’s Association, who contend with the same federal policies, offer him little support.
Apocalypse Cow – Welfare Rancher, Part 1 (The Daily Show)
Apocalypse Cow – Welfare Rancher, Part 2 (The Daily Show)
SOURCES
Fox News’ new laughingstock: Cliven Bundy — and Stephen Colbert — will destroy Sean Hannity (Salon)
Uncivil Disobedience (The Weekly Standard)
The views expressed in this posting are the author’s alone and not those of the blog, the host, or other weekend bloggers. As an open forum, weekend bloggers post independently without pre-approval or review. Content and any displays or art are solely their decision and responsibility.
Skip: Once again ill-informed and misguided, you lash about in unfocused anger at government.
A little further up, I explain some of the reasons why WC is necessary in our economy. WC promotes economic growth by allowing companies to carry out hazardous tasks without worrying about losing their investment as a result of an accident, and they’re able to attract workers to perform dangerous jobs by offering them and their families some measure of security in the event of injury or death.
Perhaps just as importantly, it provides customers of contractors and service providers protection against being named as third party defendants in lawsuits to recover damages for injured workers or their families. Without WC, it would cost you a fortune to have a new roof put on your house.
Just picking through your rantings, you want the courts to settle workplace injury claims. The courts are backlogged enough as it is; if you want the courts to handle worker claims, you’ll need to hire more court personnel, and pay them. That means your taxes are going up. And you want the states to back off and quit interceding between injured workers and employers. But who do think runs the court systems? The states and counties.
And as far as the growing regulatory state goes, I don’t know where you’ve been living these past forty years, but here on Planet Earth, in America, there’s been an orgy of deregulation going on. In fact, most orgies have more rules than the financial sector has to follow.
As for your frothing tirade against state aggression…whatever. Sounds like there’s a guy out West who could use a new disciple.
Concerns growing about militia members at Bundy ranch
Posted: Apr 28, 2014
By Natalie Cullen, Online Editor
KLAS-TV
http://www.8newsnow.com/story/25371465/concerns-growing-about-militia-members-at-bundy-ranch
Excerpt:
LAS VEGAS — Concerns are growing about members of the militia surrounding rancher Cliven Bundy.
Democratic Rep. Steven Horsford, sent a letter to Clark County Sheriff Doug Gillespie about the safety of residents in the Bunkerville area. Horsford says his constituents have “expressed concern” over the presence of armed militia groups from out of state.
According to Horsford, his constituents say the militia have set up checkpoints where residents must prove they live in the area before they are allowed to pass and have set up a “persistent presence” along federal highways, and state and county roads. They also claim some have established an armed presence in the community.
Horsford told the sheriff that the militia are making people feel unsafe.
Armed people from across the country arrived in Bunkerville weeks ago to support Bundy in his fight with the Bureau of Land Management over cattle the agency says are illegally grazing on federally managed lands.
Horsford’s concerns come at the same time the U.S. Capitol Police confirmed they are looking into threatening statements made against Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev.
A police spokesman declined to give further details Monday, citing an ongoing investigation, but Reid has been an outspoken critic of Bundy.
OK Nick: I just saw where you said that WC was essentially the same thing as disability, and then there was something like four miles of back and forth about it. I was just trying to cut to the chase.
Granted, as I said further up, there’s fraud in WC. What of it? There’s fraud in almost every aspect of our economy. Look at Wall St.
In the scheme of things, I don’t think $700 per family is an enormous problem. Low tire pressure probably costs $400 per family in the U.S. (Yes, I am dicking the ipse.) WC fraud is a problem, just not the biggest problem we, as a society need to be concerned with.
Deletion Notice: A comment by Feynman has been deleted for a personal attack in violation of the civility rule.
Mr. Spinelli’s point about WC?
People cheating. People who want to go hunting instead. And it’s all Obama’s fault. Or something.
And since he never provided a LINK to back up his numbers, I would suggest that those “figures” from the FBI concerning fraud just might include all fraud – from arson to medicare to phoney car accidents. But I really can’t say because he WON’T provide a link.
Our discussion was LIMITED to WC.
If he will provide a link I will be happy to read it.
Further, Mr. Spinelli argues his case with much greater,,,ummm…..authority other there than when he retells it here..
RTC
No gun, just a warped curiosity. I check this post from time to time to see who’s left standing.
Ipse dixit assertions. Not one link to cite even one “fact”. Who here is surprised?
RTC, my point was what I thought to be a simple one, but to my bewilderment was wrong. The point was there is much fraud in WC as there is in all insurance fraud. I based this on over 30 years of experience. I provided info from the FBI that estimates insurance fraud to be a $40billion problem costing each family ~$700 annually. all hell ensued. I’m being lectured to by people who know nothing about WC except maybe for having been a claimant? I stated early on, I detected a very personal anger on the subject.
To your question, I do not believe WC should be eliminated. In this long thread I had a substantive exchange w/ the reasonable SWM. I indicated WC started here in Wi. and virtually all states use Wi. as the gold standard. I consider WC to be one of the FEW relationships between insurance and govt. that works effectively, the whacky state of Ca. being a big exception. That state is a black whole of govt. ineptness and rampant fraud. If this discussion has been even close to civil I would have brought up the fraud is not limited to the claimant. Doctors, attorneys, rehab people, vocational people, etc. all dip their paws in this thick mud. This was my biz. I have forgotten more about this subject more than the combined knowledge of all here. It’s like a bunch of people w/ no knowledge of auto mechanics telling a mechanic he’s full of shit. I defer to people all the time on their expertise. This is mine. The other problem is someone taught them a couple Latin words.
This is an exception to my declaration of ending my discussion of the topic. I took your question as sincere and responded accordingly. If you have any questions of comments I will be happy to answer them. Otherwise, the complaint dept. is closed.
Great rebuttle Nick. and yes RTC we should get rid to forced WC. Allow the judicial system to do it’s job and get compensation for those workers hurt on the job. That why employers have insurance and if they don’t have insurance you sell off the assets of the company to pay restitution to the victim. That how the free market is supposed to work. An don’t give me a position that the State has to be the final arbiter.
Our system is not working very well. Thinking that we should continue to expand the regulatory apparatus is ignoring the last 40 years of failure. Instead we need to go much more free market and get the use of state aggression out of our society. The idea that the continued utilization of voluntary associations to govern the various elements of society would all of a sudden cease to exist, if the State and its use of legalized aggression and force was criminalized, does not account for the thousands of years of history when the State either did not exist, collapsed or became impotent in its ability to assert it’s aggression.
The idea that conflict would be greater without the State seems to ignore the level of conflict the State actually creates.
Dr. Harris: Could you explain all that to my wife. I’m still in trouble for a weekend in Vegas I spent back in 2002.
Nick: What exactly is your point about worker’s comp? Are you suggesting we get rid of it or what?
Mr. K: I can’t believe I’m saying this, but I didn’t find Nick’s remarks all that demeaning. In fact, I thought they were kinda humorous, which makes me suspect he had help or perhaps even a ghost writer.
As we see so often in sporting events, there are times when officiating crews let the players play in the interests of a spirited contest. As a result, jostling between a receiver and cornerback that might draw a penalty at other times, is allowed on condition that violations are not flagrant.
Nick,
Your comment to Feynman was inappropriate and demeaning. I am not sure what you’re trying to accomplish here, but please review the civility policy.
RTC
Not really.
However, it does sometimes occur to me, in the sense of a quantum-mechanical cosmological model of biology, that whatever preceded and generated the supposed “big bang” may yet linger on as an echo of itself, in the form of human neuroticism.
Or…
Perhaps it might be useful to do a biological pattern recognition study into the relationship of dispositional attribution with situational attribution (in the social psychology “fundamental attribution error” sense) in order to accurately discern whether or not any aspect of human disposition can accurately be modeled as else than situational.
Oh! I already did that study, it is reported, as best I could then report it, in my doctoral dissertation. The result I found? Every aspect of disposition is comprised only of situational factors. Therefore, disposition is situational.
Sew (not a typo) what?
Given that situational factors are not completely within a person’s actual locus of control, a person cannot truthfully be held totally accountable for events which are significantly generated through situational factors.
Given that a bioengineering-based biological pattern recognition study has demonstrated that all aspects of disposition are situational, the whole of human disposition is situational, and no person can truthfully and accurately be held biologically accountable for any personal action.
I find that people are neither “all nuts” nor “all bolts.”
I happen to be one of those neighborhood pests known as amateur radio operators. I have an amateur radio station (FCC call sign W9GUO) and my main HF antenna is an early version of the HyGain 18HT vertical antenna. It came in sections, which are bolted together, using nuts and bolts.
Had I used only nuts to assemble the 18HT antenna, my best guess is, it would long ago have tumbled down in a moderate windstorm.
People are not all nuts, though society, as an activity of social construction, may indeed be all nuts.
Is that why autistic people akin to me do everything they can to bolt from human society?
Or, ?
Dr Harris: Are you saying we’re all nuts?
mhj: If you’re able, try and give us an indication of where you’re being held and we’ll send the cops over to take whoever’s holding that gun to your head.
Just thought it would be research-useful to inform the Turley Blog group that i have been observing this blog thread attentively, and archiving its contents from time to time.
I plan to publish, under a Creative Commons license, my bioengineering-based observations regarding this thread on my own website and blog, when it makes sense for me to do so.
In yesterday’s mail delivery was my member’s copy of one of the Association for Psychological Science journals, Volume 2, Number 3, May 2014, Clinical Psychological Science.
Most intriguing for me and, and plausubly relevant to my work, of all the articles in that journal is the final article, The Nature, Diagnosis, and Treatment of Neuroticism: Back to the Future, by Barlow, Sauer-Zavala, Bullis, and Ellard.
That journal article has illumined the underlying mental mechanisms which have carried this blog thread along its curiously informative (to and for me if not so for anyone else) dance of reciprocity.
So, herewith, I state that I am grateful for all the posted comments which I have been able to read (some got changed between the times when I have been able to check this thread, or so I understand).
The relational structure of socialization traditions, moral injury, unconscious making of decisions, and synomie and anomie, continues to clamor for my attention and research effort.
What existential process(es)—if any—as-though drive(s)s the social processes(es) which have become manifestly emergent, not only on this blog thread, but in every Turley Blog thread which perchance seemingly clamors for attention to aspects of human “neuroticism”?
I’ve never seen the value of a circle j**k. How is it that otherwise intelligent people can believe they single handedly hold the corner on truth? The forum’s polarization mirrors the state of the government and the state of the country. Hard fixed, predictable positions jabbing sticks at one another. This post is a sick game with no value added.
Scott: “Fait Accompli” is not a good name for a band. It says, the show has ended, the song has no other verse,the guitar has no notes left, there is nothing to protest, nothing to ponder, nothing to laugh, nothing to smile,nothing to sigh, nothing to cry,, …..
Annie
“When logic and proportion
Have fallen sloppy dead”
Could I have seconds for the latter?
feyman, You mentioned having to study the other day. Driving test? 8th grade midterms? Please go to my comment, of 6:44 and diagram the sentences. That’s right kid, I am not discussing insurance fraud w/ deniers. Now, be a good kid and make me a sandwich. You owe me that for all the agita you cause me.
“When logic and proportion
Have fallen sloppy dead”…