In a blow to secularists and civil libertarians, the Supreme Court voted 5-4 in Greece v. Galloway to allow Christian prayers at a local council. The Court again left little clarity on the standard for future cases in what proved a highly fractured decision. Justice Anthony Kennedy tipped the balance in favor of the Town of Greece with Chief Justice John Roberts, Justice Samuel Alito, Justice Antonin Scalia, and Justice Clarence Thomas. However, his opinion was left in pieces by a series of concurring opinions. Scalia and Thomas specifically bolted over Part II-B of Kennedy’s opinion (except as to Part II–B, concluding that the town’s prayer practice does not violate the Establishment Clause.) Alito wrote a concurring opinion, joined by Justice Scalia. Justice Thomas also wrote a concurring opinion joined by Justice Scalia in part. Even the dissenting justices divided with a Breyer opinion for himself and a dissent by Kagan that was joined by Justices Breyer, Ginsburg, and Sotomayor. In other words, an unholy mess.
The record in the case was viewed by many as highly suspicious in how the council almost exclusively used Christian ministers while professing to be open to any faith, including atheists. The town followed an informal method for selecting prayer givers under which a town employee would call the congregations listed in local directory. That itself allowed for an obvious bias but also the town only had Christian ministers. Even Kennedy admitted that “from 1999 to 2007, all of the participating ministers were too.”
The prayers often referenced Jesus or Biblical passages:
“Lord we ask you to send your spirit of upon all of us gathered here this evening to do your work for the benefit of all in our community. We ask you to bless our elected and appointed officials so they may deliberate with wisdom and act with courage. Bless the members of our community who come here to speak before the board so they may state their cause with honesty and humility. . . . Lord we ask you to bless us all, that everything we do here tonight will move you to welcome us one day into your kingdom as good and faithful servants. We ask this in the name of our brother Jesus. Amen.” Id., at 45a.
“Lord, God of all creation, we give you thanks and praise for your presence and action in the world. We look with anticipation to the celebration of Holy Week and Easter. It is in the solemn events of next week that we find the very heart and center of our Christian faith. We acknowledge the saving sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross. We draw strength, vitality, and confidence from his resurrection at Easter. . . . We pray for peace in the world, an end to terrorism,violence, conflict, and war. We pray for stability, democracy, and good government in those countries in which our armed forces are now serving, especially in Iraq and Afghanistan. . . . Praise and glory be yours, O Lord, now and forever more. Amen.”
Kennedy emphasized that the Court had long recognized a historical practice of prayers as not violating the establishment clause:
An insistence on nonsectarian or ecumenical prayer as a single, fixed standard is not consistent with the tradition of legislative prayer outlined in the Court’s cases. The Court found the prayers in Marsh consistent with the First Amendment not because they espoused only a generic theism but because our history and tradition have shown that prayer in this limited context could “coexis[t] with the principles of disestablishment and religious freedom.” 463 U. S., at 786.
Kennedy found no evidence of coercion in the use of the prayers by the Town of Greece:
Ceremonial prayer is but a recognition that, since this Nation was founded and until the present day, many Americans deem that their own existence must be understood by precepts far beyond the authority of government to alter or define and that willing participation in civic affairs can be consistent with a brief acknowledgment of their belief in a higher power, always with due respect for those who adhere to other beliefs. The prayer in this case has a permissible ceremonial purpose. It is not an unconstitutional establishment of religion.
Kennedy made clear that secular values would not replace religious values in such public meetings as a constitutional mandate and refused to require “chaplains to redact the religious content from their message in order to make it acceptable for the public sphere . . . Government may not mandate a civic religion that stifles any but the most generic reference to the sacred any more than it may prescribe a religious orthodoxy.”
This does not of course help those who do not believe in theism. I suppose, like Rome, when in Greece just learn to do as the Greeks do.
The case is Greece v. Galloway, 12-696. In my Supreme Court class, the students voted overwhelmingly to affirm by a vote of 11-1. The prediction was closer. Five of us thought that the Court would reverse the Second Circuit (which it did) and seven students thought the Court would affirm.
Here are the opinions.
Going out for some good Thai food w/ my wife and son.
I meant “the business” of the thread. It was meandering but mostly substantive. I have taken the time to reread the thread. Byron, I see nothing that we said that should have created this. Some people apparently don’t “like our kind in these here parts.” C’est la vie.
Let’s get back to business.
Keebler, I have deleted a comment that contained a personal attack on another poster. Feel free to repost your objection to the suspension without the attack. Once again, we require a minimal standard of civility in not attacking posters but addressing their arguments or sources. We also have a rule against profanity and vulgarity. It is not a good-faith defense to say that you are engaging in personal attacks because a poster deserves it. There are a handful of posters who continue to try mightily to insult other posters despite repeated requests for them to stop. I cannot remain continually online to add adult supervision. Some posters remain obsessed with other posters and want to only discuss their background or credibility instead of dealing with the merits of the posts. They need to find another site. I am perfectly willing to see a drop in traffic to end these juvenile attacks. Fortunately, we continue to increase our readership and I believe it is because we have less of this personal tit-for-tat discussion than other sites. I am enforcing our rule more aggressively after the recent takeover of the comment section by people engaging in such attacks as well as the use of false aliases to flood the section. I am not going to continue to explain this point or encourage adults to use a modicum of restraint in avoiding personal attack or vulgarity. It should not have to be explained. If you disagree, I understand but there are other sites that virtually thrive on such commentary.
Keebler, I have deleted another comment due to the continuation of the personal attacks. I am not interested in the merits or the personalities involved in these personal tit-for-tats. I have deleted comments on both sides and I will continue to enforce our rule until those who want to post insulting comments comply with our rule or leave the blog.
Looks like my comment got deleted.
Dang, I wish I could have said it as short and sweet as this:
on 1, May 10, 2014 at 4:20 pmAnononnie
Wow, looks like pretty soon the only two commenters left will be Paul and Nick. Good job guys.
Wow, looks like pretty soon the only two commenters left will be Paul and Nick. Good job guys.
Nick – what was the business? I went to lunch and came back to a nuclear holocaust.
Dredd, I have repeatedly asked you to stop the personal attacks. You have now responded to posts with profanity and vulgarity directed against another poster. I have suspended further comments from you.
I can’t believe anyone would put themselves in a position to be defending a Kennedy. That is a suicide mission.
Lt. Colonel Buzz Paterson was the man carrying the nuclear football for Bill Clinton. He states Hillary did not want ANY people in military uniforms while working in the WH. Patterson made his point to Bubba that it was necessary for security reasons. Trying to keep the boss happy, Bubba told her no one else but those carrying the nuclear football would wear military uniforms. Then he got a hummer from Monica. Hillary is the ONLY first lady to ever demand this. So no, the Clintons didn’t make “any ad hominem attacks” but that tells you all you need to know about their views on the military. But, “AT THIS POINT WHAT DOES IT MATTER!”
Dr. Stanley:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigel_Hamilton_(author)
JFK Reckless Youth
Nigel Hamilton
He also stated that JFK did not write Why England Slept but had a cadre of people gathering material for him.
Maybe Joe Kennedy screwed his mother and his old man?
Sex has nothing to do with it, he violated his word to his wife. I think a man who does that without a very compelling reason isnt worth much as a human being.
I wont do business with people I know who sleep around on their spouses. Everyone makes a mistake or has an extenuating situation but a serial philanderer is not someone whose word you can trust.
Did you sleep around on your wife? My guess is no based on your posts here.
How would you like your daughter’s future husband to be doing the intern in his basement office?
I bet you would take one of those Scottish swords to his raggedy a$$ or at least have words with your daughter about him.
keebler – since you seem so concerned, I taught World Religions at both the college level and high school. Several publishers offer texts for the course because it is a very common Humanities course.
When you teach a class like World Religions, like I explained, you do not cover every sect of that religion. You might cover some of the more populous, but that is about it.
David,
That’s the problem with eating wild mushrooms, some give you weired perceptions of reality.
I think Paul mentioned teaching high school in the past, so maybe his World Religion class was in a public high school. I would be surprised if it was at a Bible study school.
David,
You are moving the goal posts. We were discussing the denigrating of a past president’s military record, not his lifestyle. Nice try. I thought Jesus said we shouldn’t be the one’s judging others? I also don’t remember John The Baptist commenting on RIP. Is he a real person or should I look him up in Wiki?
David,
I am sure Paul can take care of himself, but since you brought It up, I do not have a sheet next to my computer listing the religious affiliations of all the commenters and the various sock puppets related thereto. I can only judge by what they write in the various threads as I visit them. Of course Paul does claim he taught world religions, but I don’t have verification of that, nor should I need it.
Mr Keebler wrote: “I didn’t know they had an agnostic bible study school. Do tell me more? Please see his comments above and specifically 11:12. At what point is lying tell the truth?”
He said he taught World Religions. You assume this to be a bible study school? I assume it more likely to be at a university. World Religions is a common course taught in almost every university, and often it is taught by agnostics or even atheists.
Paul will have to tell us in what school or context he taught World Religions, but he has made it clear that he is agnostic concerning his belief in God, and he is not a Christian.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/chip-berlet/what-is-dominionism-palin_b_124037.html
I’m beinging to think some are not following the doctors orders. Remember to follow proper dosage.
Byron,
Would you please share the cite for that biography? I’d like to check out the sourcing if our local library has a copy.
I will be happy to share whatever I find with this group.