Russia and Finland have never had particularly harmonious relations and they appear to be getting worse. Finland is interested in joining NATO as part of its growing links to the West. Citizens will vote on a referendum on the issue. Russian President Vladimir Putin’s personal envoy Sergei Markov has responded with a menacing statement that “If Finland wants to join NATO, they should think first . Will you join and start World War III? Anti-Semitism started World War II. Russofobien can start a third.”
Russian threats to Finland are nothing new. Under Stalin, Russia created the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact with Hitler, including a secret pact to take over weaker nations including Romania, Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia and Finland. It would later backfire on the Russians when Hitler then invaded their country and they switched sides to the allies. However, Finland proved a disaster for the Russians. While they would prevail by sheer crushing numbers, the tiny army of Finland ran circles around the Russians for months and inflicted huge losses. Eventually, Finland ceded territory representing 11% of its land area and 30% of its economy to the Soviet Union. There is good reason for the Finns to look to the West given that history as well as closer cultural affinity to NATO nations.
Markov warned Finland that it might see a new World War and presumably Russian troops in combat operations. Markov is quoted as saying that Finland is one of the most russofobiske (russophobic) countries after Sweden and the Baltic countries. He has called the Finnish media “despicable” in their continued references to “Russian influence” in various bordering countries. Even more menacing is his prediction of a new federation including Donetsk, Luhansk, Charkiv, Odessa, Dnipropetrovsk and Zaporozjie. He said it will be called Novorossija or “New Russia.”
That sounds a lot like the Old Russia to neighboring countries and Putin critics. While Putin and his aides have denounced comparisons to Hitler in his expansion into areas like the Crimea, his people appear to be morphing into historical villains. Indeed, Markov sounds a lot like the pathetic figure of Vyacheslav Molotov.
Despite the plummeting popularity of Russia and Putin outside of the country, Putin is soaring in popularity among Russians and anti-American sentiments appear on the rise.
For Putin’s part, he appears to be taking a page from Stalin’s playbook when Uncle Joe said “Everyone imposes his own system as far as his army can reach.”
Hmmm…. Where to begin? The Soviets have not even existed for over two decades (since 1991 when the Soviet Union fell). The term “Soviets” cannot be read as “Putin” because Vladimir Putin did not come to power until nearly a decade after the Soviets demise. The differences between uber-capitalist Putin and the communist Soviet Union are to numerous to list.
As far as Putin attacking Finland and Poland, I’m sure that would have made the news somewhere. Could you provide a link? Perhaps you might even provide a source that indicates what, if anything, has changed in the last, oh, five years or so to make NATO’s attempted encirclement of Russia necessary.
What? Nothing in the past half decade? Is that why “history” is needed to justify this scaremongering/warmongering? Then hey, why not go with something Ivan the Terrible did? Catherine the Great? Anything for a War, right?
As far as NATO not being an aggressor group, perhaps you might want to try a perusal of NATO’s Wikipedia entry or “military alliance” You might also wish to examine once again NATO’s encirclement of Russia once again to see if you feel that, from Russia’s perspective, the tightening of a hostile alliance on its borders is not aggressive.
Fiver:
WordPress only allows two comments per comment. I took out some of the hyperlinks to make it work. If you have more than two comments just use an additional comment for the extras. Your comment is at 1:14
fiver – Putin is former KGB, good Soviet boy, who wants to put the Soviet Union back together. He is very very dangerous. You ignore him at your peril.
I agree with fiver above. Why was there not a debate in this country when we allowed the former Soviet satellite states like Poland to join NATO. NATO is an acronym for North Atlantic Treaty Organization. Poland is not on the North Atlantic. We do not want to go to war because the Poles get into a war with Russia. Same with all the new NATO countries. Finland? No way, Jose.
Finland is very resourceful in its resolve. They have maintained for May years, I don’t think they really need anyone.
Mr. Schulte,
Sorry, the sloganeering got to be a bit too much. Maybe I’ve become a bit jaded, but having
Saddam HusseinVladimir Putin made out to be another bogeyman and hearing about how our military aggressiveness is craved by the locals is ringing somewhat familiar.Check out a map of NATO’s current and intended enlargement. Note especially: Finland, Ukraine and Georgia and Khazakstan. There can be little doubt of NATO’s aggressiveness in Russia’s backyard.
This fits an all too familiar pattern: provoke a desired enemy then treat the anticipated responses as aggressiveness against which we must defend ourselves and the Free World.
We’ve heard this tune before.
fiver and Al – the Soviets (read Putin) attacked both Finland and Poland in the past. I have no problem with either of them being in NATO. NATO is not an aggressor group.
I have been to Finland, know some Finns, and I know their history. During the Cold War Finland was not part of NATO, yet maintained their independence. How did they do that if the Russians are such aggressive warriors? They also had a large communist party which was in and out of the government at various times. The war with the Soviet Union was under the dictator Mannerheim who became a Finnish patriot only when his paycheck from the Czar stopped coming since he was an officer in the service of the Czar. So please spare me the crocodile tears about the Russian oppressing the Finns. In FACT, it was the Bolsheviks that granted the Finns their independence as was true with many of the imprisoned nations of the Russian Empire. In FACT, the leader Alexander Kerensky, former dictator of Russia, praised Stalin for restoring much of the lost territory of the Empire, though he disliked his political program.
randyjet – so you are denying the Winter War occurred?
Does he hate us for our freedom?
So we’ll be greeted as liberators?
If only we could hook this up to 9/11 somehow….
fiver – you are not making sense. Want to clarify?
As Afghanistan winds down, the Cold War re-ignites.
Surprise, surprise.
fiver – the Cold War reignited when Putin was first elected.
I think that it is time for Russia to make an alliance with most Latin American countries, since the US has a long and dishonorable history there. The US has murdered FAR more people than the Soviet Union ever did in Eastern Europe. So comparison with the Soviets is worse on our side of that fence.
I find this war mongering on the part of NATO completely unacceptable. When the Warsaw pact fell, I thought it was time for NATO to fold as well. Even Pres. GHW Bush ASSURED the Russians that not one NATO troop would even go into the areas. Well we can ALL see the worth of the US words and assurances!
randyjet – you are aware that one President cannot compel another to do something, unless it is part of a treaty? And given how Obama disregards laws and treaties, that wouldn’t work with him.
Help, please. I had a comment eaten. Thanks.
Should it surprise the Russians that Finland would be more likely to go with NATO after what happened in Ukraine?
I knew from reading history the animosity between Finland and Russia. However, I did not understand the depths of that until I coached an exchange student from Finland in softball. This was an intelligent kid. She became a physician. And, she was, like many in her country, quite liberal. However, her teammates used to tease her about “Russians” because it would get her Finland up! Ball busting is an integral part of baseball, and to a lesser degree, softball.
When I learned she had never been to a MLB game we organized a trip to Miller Park to see a Reds/Brewers game. Tailgating is the tradition. She was in heaven. Bratwurst is the state meat so we had that. But I asked what else she would like and w/o a seconds thought, “corn on the cob” was her answer. She became a Midwestern girl in just a few short months. She was a horrible player but a great addition to the team.
Russia’s policy is to ‘dominate the near-abroad’. This means that all neighbors must be Russian client states. And that means that their societies and economies are run for the benefit of not Russia, but for the two dozen or so oligarchs closest to Putin. It’s not an acceptable position if you wish your country to develop and maintain a high standard of living (to say nothing of being a free and independent member of the community of nations).
After Crimea, all the small countries are crapping their pants. They see now that all Russia needs is a pretext and they may invade. The major European countries are worried. They see now the mistake of integrating economic and energy ties with Russia. The French, as usual, are looking a chance to surrender.
NATO makes the difference. The US is committed to go to war if a NATO member is attacked. That’s why Russia is in Crimea and not Latvia right now.
We are in grave danger right now of escalation. I think Russia is calculating that it’s power due to natural gas supplies will be lost over the next decade as the US and many other countries start fracking. I think they think they must act now.
I knew from reading history the animosity between Finland and Russia. However, I did not understand the depths of that until I coached an exchange student from Finland in softball. This was an intelligent kid. She became a physician. And, she was, like many in her country, quite liberal. However, her teammates used to tease her about “Russians” because it would get her Finland up! Ball busting is an integral part of baseball, and to a lesser degree, softball.
When I learned she had never been to a MLB game we organized a trip to Miller Park to see a Reds/Brewers game. Tailgating is the tradition. She was in heaven. Bratwurst is the state meat so we had that. But I asked what else she would like and w/o a seconds thought, “corn on the cob” was her answer. She became a Midwestern girl in just a few short months.
Nick I restored your comment at 10:13.
Not sure why Russia is being portrayed as the aggressor here. Finland shares a long border with Russia and is being courted by a NATO military alliance that is, by it’s very existence, hostile to Russia.
And this is on top of western machinations in Ukraine?
These reactions from Russia are as predictable as those which might be expected should an enemy of the US court a military alliance with Canada or the US. Or maybe Cuba.
fiver – are you aware of the history between Finland and Russia? If you were Finland you would want all the help you can get.
The Bolshevik vimpires just won’t die.
doglover: What if Spanish-speaking Mexicans living in Arizona want to be part of Mexico?
Russia may be up to two things. They don’t want NATO expansion into Finland because they plan on trying to conquer Finland again. Or they just don’t want another NATO country on their borders.
Finland is happy to stand up to them, but does NATO.
Why is it wrong for Russian-speaking Russians living in Ukraine to want to be part of Russia, and why is it less wrong for Israel to take over Palestine while displacing and oppressing those who live there?
My wife, not normally given to alarm over international affairs, is worried things are leading up to a war with Russia. It’s time for NATO and the UN to start serving their purpose and put the clampdown on this guy (Putin).
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