We previously discussed the tragic case of an eight-year-old boy who shot himself accidentally with a fully automatic Uzi. A similar tragedy has now occurred but it is the instructor who was killed by a 9-year-old girl learning to fire a submachine gun in Arizona at the Bullets and Burgers shooting range. The instructor, 39-year-old Charles Vacca, died at a hospital after he was shot in the head.
Bullets and Burgers allows children between 8 and 17 to shoot such weapons. An Uzi is an Israeli-made submachine gun. In this case, the recoil moved the weapon off the shoulder of the little girl and turned toward the instructor. The video showing the event up to the second before the shooting is shown below. The video shows Vacca positioning the little and her firing off a single round. Vacca then adjusted the Uzi, put his right hand on her back and his left under her right arm. She fired several rounds in rapid succession before the gun kicked to the left as she lost control. She was with her parents.
Bullets and Burgers advertises that “We separate ourselves from all other Las Vegas ranges with our unique ‘Desert Storm’ atmosphere and military style bunkers.”
These types of accidents are generally covered under issues of assumption of the risk and contractual waivers by all of the parties, including the instructors. The death would be covered under worker’s compensation unless the Vacca family will seek negligence liability for how the facility is run or structured as well as standards of training and safety. There is the separate question of whether the state should limit such use of weapons, a highly controversial question with gun rights advocates who are likely to point out that all of the parties consent to such risks (with the parents consenting for the minor). Finally, there is the emotional distress for this little girl who will have to live with this incredibly horrific memory.
Notably, some coverage suggests that Vacca may have been negligent in where he was standing. Greg Block, who runs California-based Self-Defense Firearms Training, said that a child should not be using this type of gun and that Vacca “was literally in the line of fire. He did pretty much everything wrong, and I don’t like saying that because it cost the man his life.” That would raise the question of possible liability of the range if the family were to sue over the trauma to their daughter, though such a lawsuit would present difficult issues since they would effectively have to sue the man killed by the minor under a respondeat superior theory.
In the Massachusetts case, former Pelham Police Chief Edward Fleury was found not guilty two years ago in a prosecution for involuntary manslaughter and furnishing a machine gun to a minor in the death of 8-year-old Christopher Bizilj.
OK… so I have been reading numerous articles regarding this tragedy.
From what I can gather from reading the comments, Firing Ranges should not be forced to adopt a policy regarding height, weight or even age of child firing any of the firearms, that it should be determined on an individual basis….
For one…. We have a standard age for driving a car and learners permits….
This is not done on an individual basis, because it would just be a
ridiculous way of doing things, too complicated…
Now, people do not want to put a National Restriction on these firing ranges.
I do NOT understand why this is…..
The incident that happened a few years back, when 8 year old Christopher Bizilj, shot himself in the head, while his father looked on, was a really ugly and horrific tragedy, and the sad part of it is, the Instructor at the Firing Range told the father NUMEROUS times that allowing his son to shoot an Uzi, was not a good idea and explained over and over as to why this was the case.
The FATHER wore the instructor down eventually, and convinced the instructor that it would be just fine and Christopher Bizilj was given an Uzi to shoot, where he ended up taking his life, while his father watched….
This tells me that when there is no set standard, that parents will
push and push and talk the instructors into giving them their way in allowing their kids to handle guns that are beyond their control….
If there is a SET, National standard on this, perhaps set an age level, with height and weight for different firearms, this was parents can not push instructors into
letting their kids use guns that might be too heavy or powerful for them to control.
This just gets that fight out of the way, so that firing ranges do not have to have uncomfortable confrontations with pushy parents.
How can people be against this idea ?????
justagurl – we have had to change national standards for getting the the police department and fire department because they either exclude women or exclude blacks. How in the devil do you think you or anyone else has the right to set the standard for when someone is able to fire x weapon.
Personally, I would not an Uzi in the hands of any 9 year old unless they were an experienced weapons handler. However, that is just me looking out for my life.
Nick,
I don’t hate guns at all….
I do think that we need some common sense gun control laws, perhaps background checks on ALL gun sales…. Things of that nature….
Of course I know that most of you people on the Right hate the idea
of any gun control.…
But, I just don’t think that we can keep doing nothing about gun violence.
Daren,
That is TERRIBLE….
People have gotten to a point where they treat guns as toys.
It is quite frightening that Gun Ranges are not even safe…..
It seems that people have lost respect for guns to a certain degree….
My sister, she lives in a dangerous part of Vegas….
The wealthy area… they have a LOT of home invasion robberies
so, my sister went and bought a PINK GUN…
Now, the fact that she has a pink gun, is bad enough…
I am sorry, BUT, I do not think that guns, that look like toys are such a good idea…. it is a GUN, not a fashion accessory.
But, she also has a 7 year old daughter and leaves the gun
on her kitchen counter…. :-O
I love my sister, she i just not the kind of person you can talk to about this.
So, needless to say, I would NOT go shooting with my sister.
The last time I went shooting was on the ranch my boyfriend owned.
He had a Desert Eagle 357 …. I loved that gun….
But, luckily, we were in an area here we had plenty of room to shoot at home.
When I lived in Sacramento, we used to go to The Firing Pin…
It was a firing range in the city, and as I said, the CHP
taught me how to shoot and would take me shooting
all the time…. I learned on first a 38, if I recall correctly, then a 357 Mag. Revolver, 4 inch ..
and yes, that recoil, scared the tar out of me….
But, I took it slow and easy…
When my daughter was 14, we went to Arizona to visit my parents,
and we were going to take my daughter shooting…
My VERY European husband was NOT keen on this idea,
so, we didn’t go… Next summer, we are going again, so I am going to
take her…. My parents have a few different guns….
they live in the desert, you have to have a gun where they live….
I had been planning on taking her to a range… Now, I am not so sure about that….
we can find a few places to go shooting, where we won’t have to deal with DUMB arses …..
justagurl – I think the thing with the pink guns is you get to fight crime and be girlie at the same time. There really is nothing that dictates the gun cannot be stylish. Some guns, particularly from the 18th and 19th centuries are works-of-art as well as being superior shooting weapons.
JAG, Must have confused you w/ someone else who is a gun hater, JAG. My bad. I don’t remember commenting @ Huffpo. Maybe I was CWD[commenting while drunk].
justagurlinseattle
I agree that there should be a process from which children are introduce to guns.
I starting shooting when I was 8 or 9. It started with a small .22 rifle and my family supervised this the entire time. Then around 14 or so my dad bought me a Ruger Single Six .22 revolver and I later worked up to higher rifles, shotguns, and handguns. I didn’t fire an automatic rifle until I was probably 17 and it took a while to get used to preventing it from rising up when firing. I cannot believe that anyone in their right mind who knows about firearms would let a young child shoot a submachine gun. It’s like teaching a kid to ride a motorcycle. You don’t start out giving them a crotch-rocket and not expect an accident to happen.
As far as pistol ranges go, there was one that I quit going to because there were too many yuppies there who didn’t know how to shoot at all. It was evident because they were the ones who rented pistols instead of bringing them from home and they didn’t know what they were doing. The last straw was when I heard of an incident where one of them rented some hand cannon, I think it was a .44 magnum of .454 Casul , and gave it to his girlfriend to use who had never shot a handgun before. She fired it and the strong recoil surprised her. It went back over her head and she fired again, killing the boyfriend.
People should know what they are doing before playing with fire.
as for war, Tyger… it is ridiculous that you even compare the average gun ownership to our Military having guns….
Of course most Liberals are against war….
and if you didn’t see liberals upset over the Israel Gaza situation, then
you were not paying attention.
If you didn’t not see the MANY Protests against the Iraq war,
you were not paying attention.
NOT all liberals are anti any and ALL war, sometimes it is a necessary
evil…. However, it should be used sparingly, and ONLY to protect our borders or perhaps help smaller allied nations who might be in a bit of trouble,
like WW2…..
Face it, many nations allow America to have Military bases
on their soil…. This is NOT to protect those nations, this is for American
interests, so it is only fair that if they allow us to have these
bases around the world, that we help some nations if they
are invaded.
Personally, I believe that if we had left Iraq alone, we would not
have ISIL….
We attacked one of the FEW Secular Countries in the Middle East.
WE will be dealing with that mess for years and years.
So, as much as I was against the initial invasion of Iraq,
I do understand that it is OUR responsibility to fix what we
broke. And there is no doubt, we broke Iraq in a big way.
Then of course there is the little issue that we are the ones who
pushed radical Islam to spread their message
as a tactic to beat Russia….
Well, that has been biting us on our booty’s for a long time now
in terms of terrorist attacks.
Anyway, this is a conversation for a different thread topic.
John, what is wrong with thinking that PERHAPS restricting 9 Year olds at a gun range, as to what weapon they should be firing for FUN?
and quite frankly, this was NOT a freak accident.
It was freaking CARELESS…..
2 years ago, a 10 year old boy shot himself in the head,
so, it is NOT as if it was unforeseeable that a smaller child should not be handling this kind of gun at a public range, where other people are also present.
After that horrific tragedy, shooting ranges should have been more cognizant
of this kind of thing.
How many kids need to die or kill somebody to make people see that smaller children should NOT be firing an Uzi? A gun that has the propensity to climb and raise up and become a bit unstable when on fully automatic, when in the wrong hands?
You know what is funny? This is the ONE tragedy that we should ALL be able to agree on, no matter where you are in the gun debate, Yet, here you are defending this.
It is funny, many people talk about freedom, yet, NOBODY wants to talk about being responsible.
Freedom comes with responsibilities.
There is NOTHING responsible about putting an Uzi, into the hands
of a 9 year old child novice at a public firing range.
You want 9 year olds handling Uzi’s FINE, get a permit, buy one
and let them fire away in your own yard, farm, space…
NOT at a public range where OTHER people might get killed.
justagirl – 2 accidents in two years puts it in the freak accident range, statistically.
@Nick Spinelli ..
Awww Thank you Nick!!! It is great to see you, I saw you on Huff Post and replied to one of your posts, not sure if you saw it…. 🙂
I always miss you all when I am not around, and think of you often.
Where did you get the idea I hate guns????
I don’t hate guns, in fact I even like shooting guns and have been shooting most of my life, and was taught by some great guys from the CHP…
I hate gun STUPIDITY and the fetishization of guns….
Hi @Simms ,
Thank you for the tip, that is a great idea….
I will try that next time for sure.
We have a lotta newcomers. JAG is a long timer here. She is a Commie, pinko, Swedish meatball eatin’, leftist. But, I vouch for her. She is OK in my book. I used to think the only good Commie is a dead Commie. But, folks like JAG, leej, and others changed my mind. JAG hates guns. But, I bet she packs, or @ least used to when she lived in Vegas?
Justagurl: The article above says the incident happened “in Arizona at the Bullets and Burgers shooting range.” It goes on to quote Bullets and Burgers as saying “We separate ourselves from all other Las Vegas ranges . . .”. Nowhere does this post say anything about White Hills. Those are accurate facts about the article. The statements seem to be contradictory. It’s irrelevant to this point that you lived in White Hills or Las Vegas, or that you wasted time checking 20 or more articles about the incident. I simply found the logical contradiction in THIS article to be amusing. But that is irrelevant to Everyone, too, obviously.
Of course, you didn’t respond to my question about why liberals, who supposedly are against war, are so silent about the atrocities committed with guns in all the Government’s wars today yet scream about individuals having guns when an accident occurs. That is a more salient issue to Everyone, regardless of political perspective.
We might present the ratio of guns owned or bullets fired.
We might compare that to automobile deaths, airline or recreational deaths.
The ratio of guns to deaths, accidental or otherwise, would likely be infinitesimally small.
Possibly not even worth discussion.
Quantification. How about some Statistical Quality Control?
Numbers don’t lie. People do. Defense attorneys do.
Oops. Just kidding.
A FREAK ACCIDENT is all over the media as if it is the rule; an everyday occurrence.
Shall we consider the rule or the exception to the rule?
Shall we decide on the rule or the exception to the rule?
This presentation is dubious at best.
And very sad too.
@justagurlinseattle “There is NOTHING worse than writing a well researched comment with facts, figures and sources that takes 20 minutes to write, then have it get caught in the spam filter.”
Just write it in your word processor or in notepad, then copy and paste.
@Jack … I try to post links as much as possible, But, lately I have found that when I do, my comments get caught in the spam filter.
There is NOTHING worse than writing a well researched comment with facts, figures and sources that takes 20 minutes to write, then have it get caught in the spam filter.
That has happened a few times, so, only when I find it absolutely necessary, do i include links.
Thank you Jack,
I appreciate the compliment….
Nice to meet you, by the way.
I am on OLD Timer here… It is always nice to come back here and
see that we have gained a FEW reasoned and intelligent
new members.
By the way, I knew that this was in Arizona, plus, I checked 20 or more articles prior to posting my comment, so I KNEW that EVERYBODY had reported it as being in Arizona…
Though, I will admit, I didn’t check Breitbart or any of the Far Right Wing
Tabloids, I don’t count those as NEWS Sites.
I know that I have a bit of an ODD writing style, But that is mainly because of arguing politics on many different types of forums and chat rooms……
For example, on Facebook comments, if you write a LONG reply, it gets very difficult to read, (I’m going blind) ……. So, I use a LOT of……… That is just so I can space things out, as to make it easier for people to read… and because many forums do not have ways of using HTML, or buttons that I can click to highlight, or bold, NOT to mention, I am not well versed in HTML, so I use caps as emphasis….
My content and arguing skills MORE than make up for any of my writing style that some people may find annoying…. 🙂
Well, Tyger, White Hills is where the shooting range is located and that is IN FACT, in Arizona…. Mohave County, Arizona…. NOT Clark County Nevada, I have lived in BOTH Places by the way.
So, Being that it was Mohave County Sherifs Dept. and NOT the Clark County Sherifs Dept., is also a huge clue as to where this tragedy took place.
However…. The BIGGEST Clue is on the page of The Bullets and Burgers Adventure, where it says…..
“We are located on the eclectic 30+ acre Arizona Last Stop property surrounded by picturesque mountain views at the edge of the undeveloped Lake Mead Recreational Area.”
So, Tyger, do you want to tell me again how EVERYBODY else is wrong,
and YOU are right?
justa,
I don’t know about CAPS being “correct” or even acceptable. Some people just do it. As long as the owner of the site doesn’t have a problem with it, that’s all that really matters.
As for your supporting argument; It only points out that a sentence in all caps would be seen as shouting. It does not address the use of caps for individual words. I see the capitalization of individual words as an indication that word is being emphasized, or even that the writer would have raised his or her voice if the word was said out loud. –It is always good to provide a link when appealing to authority for support. I am not aware of any accepted authority on the subject.
Some of the time, the all caps doesn’t really make sense. For example, in the above comment, you wrote; “Tyger, EVERYBODY is reporting that it was in White Hills, Arizona, about 60 miles south of Las Vegas……”
1. You don’t know what “everybody” reported. You only know what we have seen/read. As such, the usage of “everybody” would be a bit over the top. “EVERYBODY” would be an emphasized over statement.
Don’t let me interfere with your writing. I enjoy reading any and all civil exchanges. I especially like reasoned, independent thought. You have done well to demonstrate that. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
I own guns. I shoot guns for fun at the range and shoot skeet (that is a LOT of fun). I have guns for protection and for recreation. I used to hunt a lot before I became old and tired :-). As a gun owner I am obviously firmly behind the 2nd Amendment and feel that gun ownership is a right. However, I also feel that there should be limits on some people owning guns, the mentally ill for example. I don’t have too much of a problem with limiting some weapons, but the idiot politicians and anti gun people have no idea what guns actually are and confuse simple automatic hunting rifles and shotguns as being Rambo style assault weapons. Even so…I have a problem with banning those for responsible legal gun owners.
I also firmly believe that gun safety classes should be mandatory and should also be something that people should have a refresher course on periodically. There is a great and long tradition of teaching your child to hunt and be a responsible gun owner. But there should also be common sense in at what age you start allowing your child to have supervised access to guns and determine if YOUR particular child is ready. Also what kind of guns should your child be able to handle.
I see no reason on earth that a 9 year old child should be shooting an Uzi. It is something that is beyond the physical capabilities. Would you put your 9 year old child behind the wheel of a Formula One race car as learning driver??
Jack,
While I agree that a motion is the last place where it would be appropriate to use caps as emphasis, it is absolutely correct usage on internet forums.
Many people have been taught that caps are bad usage at all times.
This is simply NOT the case…. 🙂
Though, I must admit that is classic that the Judge did that in his ruling. 😀
1.
ALL CAPS
The most important rule is never use all caps for your messages. IT MAKES IT LOOK LIKE YOU ARE SHOUTING. It is highly offensive and especially hard to read. Caps may be used sparingly to emphasize a word or phrase. Trust me, avoid using the caps lock key on your keyboard, or suffer the wrath of the annoyed recipient! You send me a message that is all in caps and it’s going right into my trash without being read.