A Delta Airlines flight from New York’s JFK Airport to Israel was delayed by half an hour after a group of ultra-Orthodox Jewish men refused to sit next to female passengers. We discussed the same type of disruption on a flight in September by ultra-Orthodox travelers refusing to sit down until people moved around to accommodate their extreme religious views. What is astonishing is that the disruptive travelers faced no reported repercussions for delaying a flight or refusing to comply with the instruction of flight attendants.
Delta Flight 468 was bound for Tel Aviv’s Ben Gurion Airport and the men were told repeatedly to sit down and refused. They insisted that women had to be moved to avoid their coming into contact with a member of the outside sex. Two women refused to accommodate what they viewed as discrimination despite the men offering money to the various passengers to comply with their demands. Finally, an American traveling to Israel changed seats to resolve the situation.
What is striking is that people are routinely pulled off planes for the slightest disruptions or failures to obey flight attendants. However, you can defiantly refuse to take your seats until passengers yield to your demands if you can a religious principle against sitting with women.
What is interesting is that when another group of ultra Orthodox men turned an El Al flight into a nightmare, many demanded that the airline adopt a rule to deal with such disruptive passengers. However, the airline has refused to adopt a policy to prevent future such disruptions, leaving passengers to the whim of these ultra orthodox travelers who refuse to let planes take off until women are removed from their rows.
Since they are Billionaires anyway why do not they have their own private plane. If someone was going to shoot them down then they would be the only one shot down. Not the majority of the passengers. If I was on that plane they would have to be the ones to move or even better, Not take my flight.
Giving into this type of demands is like the Spanish blood baths by the Catholics in the old ages. HOLY WARS are not Holy because why would God want a person to break one of the 10 Commandments. Fighting in that part of the world over a piece of real estate. Why not declare the are NO MANS LAND and not allow any one to own such a place at all. The cost of war is removal of lives not property. What if it was the other way around. Create zones that can never be used as property because it was fought over for way to many years.
Ultra orthodox nutters are a threat from Brooklyn to Tel Aviv. Society shouldn’t tolerate such disruptions. Sit down and take your seat or say hello to the air marshall as he drags your butt off.
And in first-class.
I think I will DEMAND that I be seated only by good looking women. As an agnostic, it is my God given right. 😉
“Not much of a response, Pogo.
None needed. It’s not like either of us will convince each other.
“And the attempt by today’s believers to usurp science is laughable”
Then you didn’t read the article.
“with whiffs of desperation.”
I think it smells like victory.
I have no problem with a group of men not wanting to sit next to women. Surely there are others on the flight more than willing to sit next to women. Similar passenger needs exists when a husband and wife desire to sit together on a flight, or when parents desire to sit with their children on a flight. I have had situations where my child was seated far away from me on a long flight. That is not nice.
Flights to Israel from New York regularly have Orthodox Jews. The airline should use passenger data of past flights to reserve a men’s only section in the back of the plane and let these Orthodox Jews select seats in that section. It is not that hard to do, and the airlines that do it will likely get a bump in preference for their flights. Flight attendants also should be trained to try to assist passengers in changing seats by announcing the need for volunteers to change seats.
They should be forced to follow the same rules as everyone else. Or face the same consequences that any other disruptive passenger.
The men who disrupted the flight should have been arrested and jailed. Another example of religious privilege…it is destructive, corrosive and dangerous. Men who hold beliefs that make it impossible for them to interact in society should be refused the opportunity to fly allowing them to do so puts other passengers at risk.
Not much of a response, Pogo. And the attempt by today’s believers to usurp science is laughable, with whiffs of desperation.
What do you think would happen if I boarded an airplane and then refused to be seated because there were Orthodox Jews in my row? Or Muslims? And I offered the Jews or Muslims sums of cash if they would please move to another part of the plane?
I rather doubt that my wishes would be accommodated by the airline moving passengers around so the plane could depart.
I would be ushered off of the plane PDQ, and probably face questioning at the very least, and perhaps arrest. The Orthodox should have been treated the same way.
I’m gonna demand first class seats because God told me coach hurts my legs and I can’t kneel in church for days.
Perhaps they should consider other means of transportation.
“What is so bad about the concept of gender equality?”
In the US it begat unanticipated inequality from man-hating feminists, such as the UVA rape hoax, the Duke lacrosse rape hoax, the Lena Dunham rape hoax, and others.
So there are counterarguments.
Women tend to be statists, for example.
Dave, it was a joke, albeit stolen.
If you want to turn this into another thread about the existence of God, have at it.
Science Increasingly Makes the Case for God
And you can’t deny science.
The basic premise of most organized religion is glorification of men and suppression of women. What is so bad about the concept of gender equality?
Extremism by any other name is still extremism. When one uses a public conveyance we tacitly accept certain restrictions – for example we must stay seated during taxi and take-off and are told on every flight that we MUST obey the flight crews. I have witnessed people escorted off of a plane for a lesser disruption than this. Flying is not a right it is a privilege and as such those not interested in accepting certain restrictions or inconveniences should seek other means.
Powerful counterargument, Pogo. Well done. Hitchens didn’t die of natural causes linked to his drinking and smoking; he died by the hand of a conveniently immeasurable sky-tyrant, reinforced in the fact that religious people never get the pain of cancer.
Take another weak shot at it.
“God is dead.” –Hitchens.
“Hitchens is dead.” –God
http://youtu.be/7nIRJVmZ4K8
Western women in Israel learn to avoid areas where the ultra-orthodox live, as the residents will throw stones at them for showing too much skin.
Their country, their rules I guess. So I understand El Al conceding.
But Delta? In the US?
This seems ripe for further abuse, counter-demands by gentiles, and lawsuits for discrimination.
What a mess.