We have previously discussed (here and here) the growing conflicts over businesses that decline to accommodate same-sex weddings and events in a clash between anti-discrimination and free speech (and free exercise) values. Despite my support for gay rights and same-sex marriage, I have previously written that anti-discrimination laws are threatening the free exercise of religion. Some of these cases involve bakeries that insist that making wedding cakes for same-sex couples violates their religious principles. Now we have a twist on this trending litigation. The Azucar Bakey has been found to have broken discrimination laws by refusing to make an anti-same-sex cake. The bakery was asked to make a Bible-shaped cake with an anti-gay slur and owner Marjorie Silva refused. The customer brought a complaint to the Colorado Civil Rights Commission and won.
The customer wanted the bakery to draw two males holding hands with “a big ‘X’ on them.”
Silva identifies herself as a practicing Christian and makes Christian cakes, but balked at making an anti-gay cake at her Lakewood bakery in December 2013. Previously in Colorado, Masterpiece Cakeshop owner Jack Phillips broke discrimination laws when he refused to make a cake for the same-sex wedding of Dave Mullins and Charlie Craig in July of 2012. That decision was upheld by the Colorado Civil Rights Commission.
Now we have the flip side. Silva offered to leave the bible page blank to allow the customer (who she describes as disruptive) to write whatever he wanted but she declined to write it herself. Ironically, she could have simply refused to serve him on the basis for any disruption in the store. She was later sent a notice by the Colorado Department of Regulatory Agencies (DORA) that a religious discrimination complaint has been filed against Azucar Bakery. She has since received a notice from DORA requesting a final letter describing her account of events.
The question raised by these cases is whether anti-discrimination laws are driving too deeply into free speech rights. Bakers and photographers view themselves as engaged in a form of speech generally. The loss of a bright-line defining free speech has meant that we are finding ourselves increasingly on a slippery slope of speech regulation. On the other hand, we fought hard to guarantee accommodation for all races in places of public accommodation. Stores are not allowed to ban black customers under the same rationale. The question is whether there is a difference between refusing to serve customers on the basis for sexual orientation generally as opposed to taking an active or direct role in a same-sex wedding.
Where do you think we should draw the line?
Source: KDVR
Karen, 10:44a, LOL! Love your humor. The 80 hour weeks I worked building my biz took its toll on me. But, I was doing work I loved. The small businesses I see that succeed often have that component. People who start a business to get rich, often fail, because they don’t love what they do. I turned down business because I hade many clients who would suffer if I continued to grow. I had a growth spurt 8 years into my biz that spread me thinly. I hired several investigators and support staff to handle the new clients, w/ me focusing on the longtime ones. For me, handling the growth was very difficult. I waded through it, fortunate to have a friend in law enforcement who funneled good, retired, homicide detectives to me. They needed some adjustment to the private sector, but they were skilled and honest. To read people pontificating on small biz who obviously have never run one is maddening. Your “Holiday Inn” comment provided the much needed humor. Maybe we should just look @ them as clowns, and laugh as they all jump out of a tiny car w/ squirt guns. It fits.
Nick Spinelli wrote: “Maybe we should just look @ them as clowns, and laugh as they all jump out of a tiny car w/ squirt guns. It fits.”
The problem is that their vote cancels out your vote. So wouldn’t it be prudent to at least try to educate them?
Paul he will not give you a cite because it is another lie just like the Rolling Stone Rape Case. Ross’s real name is Lena Dunham.
Darren:
“And there is the marijuana business. The pols are now talking about raising the marijuana tax, even after every stakeholder and customer said the biggest hurdle to going legitimate is the prohibitively high tax system. The industry could very well fail, but many politicians never seem to consider that possibility. The largest marijuana retailer in the state sells half a million per month in weed and is struggling to survive due to the tax burden. Growers have months worth of product sitting idle and unable to presently sell. Nearly all are losing money. Welcome to Washington.”
Welcome to tax and spend politics.
There are many people who can’t get past the “half a million per month” and literally cannot understand how if you keep voting for more and more and more taxes, you eventually take most of it.
It’s like a check book. “What do you mean I don’t have any more money? I have more checks!” Don’t the rich just have bottomless pockets? They don’t need to be rich! They should have to work harder and harder and harder, and just have a middle class life to show for it, but continue to work at the higher pace to employ everyone else out of the goodness of their hearts.
That is the problem when you have an unequal tax code. The majority will ALWAYS vote for higher taxes on “other people.” If we came up with a “ginger tax” for those with red hair, it would probably pass.
George – so those who have a 6,000 acre ranch that exceeds the exemption for the estate tax are “bad people” who don’t deserve to pass anything on?
Are you aware that large farm equipment can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars each? Do you know what an organic commercial dairy farm costs?
Farms are often cash poor but equipment rich.
fiver:
“For information regarding effortless ownership in a business, I suggest taking a look at the S&P 500. As far as a return on capital versus ownership, I fail to see the difference. Stock is ownership.”
This is embarrassingly uninformed.
#1 – Anyone who heads an S&P 500 company works long hours. I suppose an uber rich person could just buy one, and then hire “people” to do everything while he sips champagne on his yacht. How many business owners fall into that category? Just fall out of his silk sheets and decide to buy a ready-made S&P 500 company with the budget to hire people to do all the work?
If you own stock you own an investment, and do not run a company.
In light of your recent declarations, may I ask in the nicest possible way that you please abstain in the future on voting on any issue that may impact business owners, since you are clearly shockingly ignorant on business.
I thought anyone who graduated from high school would understand at least these basics. This is an unintended cry for help to improve our public education system to equip graduates with practical information.
Personally, I would like to see such aspects as budgeting, debt accumulation, cash flow, and business economics. Too many people seem to be graduating innocent of how to navigate the world, or how our economy works.
And, no, competition is not increasing.
Many carriers left CA because of Obamacare (I have cited references before), which reduced competition.
Because the ACA mandates minimum coverage, if you look at the brochures between plans (as I do), there is no difference between plans except premium and deductible. They are all literally the same.
That is the exact definition of less choice and less competition.
Even Gruber himself was quoted as saying that the problem with the ACA is that it is unaffordable, which makes mandating it a problem.
Lee:
“Karen: There’s statistical evidence that confusion about Obamacare continues to dampen support for the law, too. Surveys continue to find that the Medicaid expansion is more popular than the Affordable Care Act. The subsidies to help families buy health insurance are more popular than the Affordable Care Act. ”
That makes sense, because it is completely unaffordable for the unsubsidized. Those without subsidies who previously had insurance do not like it because their coverage is worse and they can’t afford it.
Those getting subsidies would obviously like getting money from the government.
“Those who get free stuff like it, while those who get hit with huge bills do not.”
“I know all about how business work because I stayed at a Holiday Inn.”
fiver:
“It must be incredibly generous, and I do mean incredible, of your husband to take his workers’ comp payments out of his own profit instead of including that cost in calculating the wages he will pay. In other words: workers pay those rates in the form of reduced wages.”
No, you are still wrong, even though you seem very confident.
Work Comp is 30%. Workers are paid competitive wages, or they go work for someone else. If a worker’s salary would be $90,000, work comp taken out of his wages would be $60,000, which is not the going wage for a skilled worker. So, you could try that, but you would have to get entry level guys, and then you would need to give them raises as they advanced, or they would go elsewhere.
You have some very incorrect ideas about how business and market forces work. If you are uninterested in getting educated, then you will continue to make ignorant statements that real business owners will judge you on. If you don’t mind it, then enjoy yourself, by all means.
Darren is right. It is easier to get a loan on a house than on a business. Venture capitalists might loan money to start a business, but then they get to run it. And they don’t do that for dry cleaners.
Every small business owner I know sank every dime they had, and/or mortgaged their home, to start their business, and then chained themselves to their work to get it off the ground. My sister-in-law barely saw my brother for years when he was getting started, and my husband practically slept in his truck. Everyone was making money EXCEPT him when his business was new, because he had to pay his employees, the bills, etc before he could pay himself.
Nick – what is more frightening is that people who are clueless about running a business vote on what affects business, all based on misconceptions.
Paul Schulte:
Some (not all) Florida Christian schools had an “excellent” rating for a disabled child and as soon as school officials found out his parents were gay – the child was permanently expelled from the school.
This would be a traumatic experience for any child to leave his friends and teachers mid-year, but to do this to a disabled child in grade school makes it far worse. This is not the same as a child of a military family that relocates, this was done explicitly due as punishment for having gay parents.
Any school that accepts federal ADA grants for the purpose of teaching children with disabilities can’t then discriminate against gay taxpayers – it is a condition of receiving the federal grants (agreed to in advance).
If you are a law & order type, this is a federal crime by the school accepting those grants. If you have any morality at all, it is never justified to punish the child for the parent’s actions – on any topic. If you are a real conservative this is the text-book definition of a theocratic nanny-state (Iran’s model of government) that has no regard for individual freedom and thinks religion should be imposed on it’s citizens.
This is not politics this is a legal and moral issue. The U.S. Supreme Court has ruled on the matter so it’s the law of the land in Florida and most states.
Ross – cite something. Cite me to at least a news article.
BTW, expulsion is permanent. Suspension is temporary. And disabled students can be expelled, just not for their disability. I have spent enough time working in this area that I have a little knowledge.
As for EMR’s…small practices likely cannot really afford them….but they might be able to hire a bright young IT guy to write them a simpler Db in SQL Server or similar package, and then provide patient access by assigning “roles & permissions” appropriately. Oracle is not for the beginner, just the manuals that come with the package fill an entire bookshelf. You have to hire a contractor, who uses Oracle, it is going to be expensive.
One of the reasons I chose a hospital system is because they can and do provide the EMR’s to all who seek care there…and have done so long before the ACA. Never mind that I can make one trip to my PCP and get all tests done in the same building and be done with it. Then I can go home and the next day (usually) read all the test results and my PCP’s opinion regarding them…sitting at my computer. My treatment for cancer(s) was made far simpler to deal with due to this feature….that and the ability to get multiple opinions (surgical and radiological) in the same place, then prompt treatment. So far, all successful.
Chuck Stanley … here’s my take:
Customer: Bake me this cake with the anti-gay stuff.
Baker: Falcon Nine Zero Two.
Footnote….For those not following the Falcon Codes: 902 = “If I called for shit, you’d come sliding in on a shovel“
Paul Schulte:
The Florida school that punished a disabled child due to his gay parents is true. Prosecutors (state or federal) that aren’t already investigating this fraud know where to find me. It would be illegal for me to state a false claim on this site.
If adult school administrators are cowardly and evil enough to punish a disabled child for who his parents are – those same adults will punish those children even more if they are fined thousands of dollars for committing ADA fraud.
In these types of cases, unless the child’s family is willing to relocate entirely outside of that community or state – it’s extremely dangerous to release certain details about this type of fraud by some schools.
In the real world this is how it works. Many federal investigations never reveal all of the details to protect the children or victims involved. If a Plaintiff chooses litigation over a federal investigation, then the Plaintiff must confront the Defendant in court.
In other words these cases can be totally resolved without ever revealing the child’s name for their protection.
Ross – how is the child being “punished” in any manner? You can make any claims you want, but I need something more than your claim.
Paul,
Re-read what I wrote. Referring to the jerkwad customer, not the baker.
Our “I promise no new taxes” governor is now in nearly complete contradiction and is proposing huge tax raises. The old “1%’er mantra” with little true analysis of economic reality. He proposed to the legislature that we need to raise taxes to cover the state getting spanked by the supreme court for not fully funding primary education. He now wants to put a 7% capital gains tax on this so called 1%’ers which he claims will raise 750 million dollars but then he turns right around and says he will give state employees a raise of a newly equal amount. Hopefully this is not make it into law because the Republicans will never accept this. I know a couple folks that have business models that are capital gain specific and they will look at divesting in WA if this happens. The timber industry is very worried.
He talks about how the state has the most regressive tax system in the country but then he proposes raising cigarette taxes (which affects the lower income bracket more) and placing a 95% tax on e-cigarettes, which everyone in that industry stated it will completely destroy small business retailers because the price would be untenable and customers will likely either go back to regular cigarettes or buy contrabands. Over forty percent of all cigarettes possessed in the state are contraband. The state loses about two hundred million dollars a biennium on untaxed smokes and the legitimate e-cigarette market will likely vanish into “vapor”.
And there is the marijuana business. The pols are now talking about raising the marijuana tax, even after every stakeholder and customer said the biggest hurdle to going legitimate is the prohibitively high tax system. The industry could very well fail, but many politicians never seem to consider that possibility. The largest marijuana retailer in the state sells half a million per month in weed and is struggling to survive due to the tax burden. Growers have months worth of product sitting idle and unable to presently sell. Nearly all are losing money. Welcome to Washington.
So, it is not just a matter of passing on taxes to the customer. Bad tax policy can kill entire industries, or at the very least dissuade future investment in the state because it becomes less tenable to consider setting up shop.
We have about 130 days left until the legislature adjourns. There is an old saying: “Nobody’s life, liberty or property is safe while the legislature is in session.” It becomes more true every year unfortunately.
Davidm2575,
In an earlier post I stated many of those loopholes that used to exist have been reduced. If business taxes are paid, those costs are eventually passed onto the consumer in the retail price of products and services. If those costs aren’t recouped in the year they were incurred, most businesses will eventually raise their rates in the future years if the condition persists.
Business automobiles can legally be used for both business and personal use, but those costs have to be separated by mileage – that percentage is then used to split fuel and maintenance costs. You are right in this scenario, you can’t deduct 100% of costs when a vehicle has dual use.
If you pay attention next time a politician is proposing a new tax on an industry, business owners and industry experts make this very point “increasing taxes on businesses increases prices for consumers”. So even if a business pays a tax bill, that cost is ultimately passed down to the consumer (unless the owners decide to cut their own profits – which is rare and usually temporary).
Ross wrote: “… increasing taxes on businesses increases prices for consumers.”
No doubt this is true. Ultimately, the consumer pays for everything. You are arguing a tautology, which basically says nothing. Perhaps you forget that business owners are consumers too.
We pay, but then we are chastised with false information that we don’t pay. It used to be that business owners had a little respect for being successful. Now it is in vogue to just call them greedy millionaires with too much money and take from them by force whatever can be taken. If there were truth to it, fine, but there is no truth to it. It is a fabrication of the Democratic Party. People need to understand the Republican message of liberty and freedom and break free of these chains created by the Democrats against the working man. If people instead believed the Republican vision of the American Dream, of being self reliant and responsible as a path leading to economic freedom, our society would quickly recover from the quagmire we have been led into from our President Barack Hussein Obama.
Throw your doctor a party if he is able to ‘retire’ because he doesn’t like ACA. Obviously, the doc has a pretty nice nest egg if s/he can afford to quit. I don’t think she is opting for living under a bridge for the rest of her life.
And unhappiness about filling out forms? Yeah, right. We never had to do that before ACA.
Time for a reality check, whiners. (Gee. I thought that behavior was frowned upon at this site.)
And consider this. Old docs didn’t have to know how to type. The next generation will know how – just like the old business managers didn’t know how to type when they had secretaries. Welcome to the 21st century, folks. Adapt!
GeorgeJ – you have a point about younger doctors having to type and older ones not knowing. My cardiologist has a duplicate screen on the wall so the patients can see what he is typing into their charts (50″ TV). I have nothing against this. However, as I have said before, what I am against, is being forced to give information that has nothing to do with being treated, such as my race and ethnicity. That is solely for government data mining.