Dr. Hayat Sindi is a Saudi Arabian medical scientist and a woman who has earned respect for extraordinary accomplishments in a country that denies women basic liberties. She is not only an award-winning scientist but one of the first female members of the Consultative Assembly of Saudi Arabia. Ranked by Arabian Business as the 19th most influential Arab in the world and the ninth most influential Arab woman, it is not surprising that Harvard University has brought her to the country as a visiting scholar. However, a nasty lawsuit in King County has raised deeply disturbing allegations about Sindi’s efforts against women who she accuses of hacking her emails. According to counsel for one of those women, Sindi worked to have another woman flogged for writing on Facebook that she had had an affair with her husband. On the other side is Samia El-Moslimany, a women’s activist and photographer who lives in the U.S. and Saudi Arabia, who is fighting to keep Sindi from forcing the disclosure of the women, who would face medieval Sharia justice in Saudi Arabia.
All of this began when El-Moslimany posted statements on social media in 2012 alleging that Sindi had had an affair with her husband. Sindi responded with a Saudi defamation case and, according to an affidavit submitted by El-Moslimany’s lawyer, she wanted El-Moslimany flogged. The effort backfired. A Saudi judge decided last year that El-Moslimany should spend four days in jail for the public defamation while Sindi should spend two months in jail for forming an illicit relationship with El-Moslimany’s husband. Neither has served their sentences.
Sindi however has continued to try to force disclosure of the names of the women commenting on the Internet under the claim that she was hacked. A King County Superior Court judge decided Friday not to sentence a Burien woman to jail or to levy a $500 fine for each day of withholding the names in light of the danger to these women.
Judge Mariane Spearman denied Sindi’s request to hold El-Moslimany in contempt of court because Sindi’s new lawyer could not specify which Facebook comments might be a basis for investigating any of the women.
The idea of a Harvard academic fighting to have women flogged for alleged defamation is deeply troubling. The fact that Saudi Sharia law allows for medieval justice does not excuse a demand for such justice over the exercise of free speech. Even if such speech was defamatory, it should not be a criminal matter subject to flogging. Whatever the truth of the adultery, it should not be relevant to Harvard or anyone else other than those involved in these families. However, flogging for posting matters on the Internet raises significant issues of due process and free speech.
Should Harvard be involved in such dispute when one of its faculty seeks to have women flogged under Sharia law or this is simply a private matter under the laws of another country?
What Po commits is the sin of omission. He wants the ignorant to believe that all of those good deeds are dictated by Islam. What he so conveniently excludes is the fact that all of those good deeds are commanded to be performed with regard to other Muslims. Infidels are not included. Watch him skip over accurately explaining that one.
Inga and happypappies appear to be as ignorant as they are stupid. Someone who voices a different opinion is now called evil. The first is a Godless creature, bent on abandoning her Pentecostal faith and then defending the homicidal maniacs of Islam. One of her rolls down the isles in church, during her younger years, must have resulted in one, or several, knocks to the head
on 1, February 19, 2015 at 2:16 pmPaul C. Schulte
po – as a representative of CAIR I would like you to answer for the Janiseries, which put the lie to your blather about slavery and Islam.
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Paul, still waiting for you ask a question. 🙂
However, I cannot answer for the Janiseries, I wasn’t there. I had nothing to do with them.
po – as our representative from CAIR you answered for the questions about Mohammed and slavery, although you bobbed and weaved your way through the issue. You made this big point about manumission and using freed slaves for the corps of Islam. So, what is the excuse for enslaving Christians to do the fighting for the Ottoman Empire. This is the same empire that ISIS is trying to resurrect?
Darren Smith
Po,
Thank you for the extended reply. So from what I have read in your words it seems, to me at least, that one of the causes of these problems facing us is that it is in the interpretation as used by others for unsavory ends–that is there is no cushion so to say where a most literal interpretation or selective interpretation can be used by some to convince others who are not fully versed in the nuances that, essentially, they are commanded to act a certain way.
I would think a more comprehensive education of what is involved would probably help everyone.
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No doubt, Darren.
However, in these global times when everything is disturbed, and a guy on youtube can spread whatever message he wants, a comprehensive education is exactly what is lacking.
As we have seen here by some who call themselves Christians, there is a political war that has taken over religion, and causes more fissures to happen and become gulfs.
Religion is a perfect battlefield for political wrangling, and by political I mean everything that pits one against another, and by religion I include atheism, which has now become fundamental and aggressive.
I do not, obviously, mean that all atheists are so. I am simply saying that these are the times where everyone feels that they must take, protect from, assert themselves, and we are splintered in subgroups of sunni, shias, salafi, wahabists, sufis… of gay, straight, black, white, rich and poor…that once one decides to take a political cause and advocate for it, whether aggressively or defensively, one is an activist. And the line between activism and fundamentalism is rather thin.
There are great resources in this country alone for teaching traditional Islam, the patient, positive, loving form of Islam that was present in Andalusia and in the Ottoman empire, in the time of the Prophet and afterwards, in Senegal and Indonesia.
However, one can’t be forced to learn, and the more political and social wrangling takes place around the globe, the more religion becomes the banner under which evil is done.
Happy, people do things that seem evil, but what the driving force behind those acts is, who knows? I certainly am not a philosopher, I can only surmise. I’m very rooted to the earth and have a hard time embracing the spiritual.
Happy, Anarchist doesn’t strike me as the kind to be an Islamaphobe, or to defend someone like Hagee, but hey who knows? Things are getting strange out in the greater world and in our little blog world here.
Inga (Annie) My opinion is that’s a red herring to divide you and po, He had already culled me out because I was off my meds. He goes to the end of every thread till 5 am and says the same thing under both names. He played you with the Moo thing. And Anarchist played you also. He needs 1 ally. Just one and if he doesn’t have it, he goes away. He finds one thing to try to control the blog. And it’s always a religious Fundamentalist Moralist – He used Charles Finney on Anarchist if you remember who was a Heretic from the Presbyterian Church. I hated him because he was the first Televangelist from the times of Jonathan Edwards, He thought Gods will cane from him and he could bestow the power of forgiveness through moralizing and repentance, sickening. I called him on it and tore him a new A@@hole. He hates me. Good. He tried it again just now with Hagee. I held Hagee out there like a red flag in a bull ring and he couldn’t resist.
He thinks he is playing me, calling me a lunatic and all, but what I said about the receptivity of the moon and the Isis Myths are actually true and he didn’t understand any of it. He has a 2 dimensional head.
Let him come slinking back now. lol lmao 😉 😉
Didn’t you see how different Mark talked to me?
And I tried to tell you that I really was taking some medicine that was messing with my memory when I couldn’t tell you and Sqweaky apart.
Or blaming the Bible for what Pogo says.
Prairie Rose says:
There are legitimate concerns about Islam, Po: the Islam that is tangled with cultural and political problems, the Islam that wants Sharia government, not just personal Sharia. Most Muslims in in ME countries want Sharia and many think there is only one way to interpret Sharia (see my links above).
The Sharia we see in the news too frequently is one that stones people, cuts off people’s hands, threatens apostates with death, requires people to dress a certain way, and forbids music and dancing. Americans do not want Sharia government here, including Americans who are Muslim.
You are defending Islam in its ideal form, the Islam that the Muslims I know and care about live out. Unfortunately, I fear they are in the minority in other countries. People here see the cloistered attitudes causing problems elsewhere and do not want the tangled Islam to grow here.
What are your thoughts on this? Can Islam exist outside of a theocracy for most believers?
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You make great points, Prairie Rose.
I always start out asking what is Islam?
Is Islam, the Quran? Is Islam the hadith and sunnah of the Prophet?
IS Islam what Muslims do?
Is Islam shariah law?
If Islam is the quran, in it one finds everything one may use to do good and bad. The issue is this: the prescription to love thy neighbors, to care for the widows and orphans, to help the poor, to support the doers of good, to protect the environment, and especially to forgive. Every verse that permits taking revenge upon someone who wronged you, does it in a very controlled manner, and never allows one do more than was done to him…and better yet, every such verse is followed by “…but if you choose to forgive, that is better in the sight of your Lord.”
The older generations of scholars knew that since the Quran spoke to every individual until the end of times, its focus, meaning and range would change with time.
There were a great many scientific aspects of the Quran that sailed right over the head of early Muslims, but now are in link with our current knowledge. Though morally it could speak to the 1400 years ago muslim as it does to me today, practically, it isn’t. Because of that however, the interpretative process is ongoing, and unfortunately it does often take a weird turn.
It is worth knowing that there is no Islam without the quran. It is the ultimate proof and the necessary guidance. Everything else is checked by it, even and especially the hadith.
The shariah law we see is the one that makes the news. In the rules regulating the inheritance, God asks the one receiving, if there are people present who are needy, to give them some of that inheritance. That won’t make the news.
If a woman is abused by her husband, and he goes to the local imam who calls her husband and gives him the business about how he ought to treat her as exemplified by the Prophet AS, that won’t make the news.
If a neighbor has an issue with another, and they go the islamic court that decides guilt on one case and determines the fine one must pay to the other to make him whole, that is shariah you won’t hear about.
Now, if in Pakistan for example, a woman is stoned to death and it is justified by quoting shariah law, one has to ask, where does such ruling come from?
It is not in the quran, and the Prophet himself never did that.
Well, it comes from a scholar somewhere who, using quotes of acts and words assigned to the prophet, determines it is applicable. And since there are hundred of thousands of hadith, ranked from false to highly acceptable, there is no situation where one won’t drag a hadith out to support his argument, even though sometimes that one hadith is contradicted by another.
That is the issue with the hadiths, everyone seems to find and believe the ones that fit his stance. Some muslims believe women should cover completely, many more believe the woman should only cover her hair. The quran says to only cover the bosom. By interpretation, the scholars of old determine that since historically women used to wear a loose scarf on their head, the cover the bosom means also cover the hair.
Because of that, there is a growing movement in islam of people, called quranists, who discard the hadith completely. They only go by the quran, which a problem on its own because the quran doesn’t define many things, including the prayer, and instead sends the believer to follow the example of the Prophets, hence the value of the hadiths.
Yet the rules are pretty clear, a hadith should never contradict the quran, yet in order to make their case, extremists will use hadith contradicting the quran, then interpret the quran to fit the hadith.
If Islam is what Muslims do, then most muslims are content going to work and home, praying their 5 daily prayers, a little more or a little less. So in that respect, they are no different than every other person out there.
Now if Islam is the combination of all of that, which it is, one must still differentiate between its parts. Muslims believe the Quran to be perfect, the sunnah to be fair and Muslims to be fully imperfect. When someone says Islam is evil or violent, is he pointing at the quran, the sunnah or the Muslims themselves? I say it is neither the quran nor the sunnah, which leaves only the muslims themselves.
It is akin to blaming Jesus for the evil of Christians.
po –
Your logical progression is incorrect. It is a rookie mistake. Following is the way your para should be to make your logic work.
And even this really does not make sense.
Happy, no he’s not scary to me. I think yes he does seem a bit like a person named David. It was sad, but evil, who knows? Being agnostic I have a hard time wrapping my head around the concept of evil. I never could be an atheist. I’ve got just enough of the old time religion in me to keep me marginally believing, or wondering. Who knows maybe one day God will speak loud enough for me to hear.
Inga (Annie)
That would be just a bit on the Davidm2575.there is a difference that is fundamental if you excuse the use of the word. David got mad at me one time for being not clear on definitions. Afterwards, he actually backed me up against anarchist 2.0 anarchist 2.0 is always on when telling is and is attacking me the same way about my meds. Now I can’t prove it but, it’s kind of a coincidence.
I am going to work on the rest of this if you will trust me. I am not a back stabber and I am not naive. I just don’t care enough if someone sees all of my cards because I don’t blind myself to truths. As far as evil goes. It does exist. It is just not personified in a deity. You must realize that those heinous crimes are evil. What was done to me inside marriage for 20 years was evil because it certainly was the opposite of healthy living. Think diabolical and nefarious and unfair and subjugation and slavery – is that evil?
I know I have seen you post links and I read them also.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-wgxPmCFGzg8/U_-0tFGVYYI/AAAAAAAAPu4/wKoKEzykP_c/s1600/watership_down_by_veronicarosejones-d4dq8z9.jpg
Annie
Are you scared? Isn’t he scary I can’t even believe that tripe. Sounds like David Icke or something you know?
Wasn’t that sad? And very evil. Spelled backwards live. Your concern is sweet. I am a Social Progressive you know and I might not spell correctly all the time, but I did really get a message recently that it was okay to stamp all over the Bible in the OT where It wasn’t about a merciful God. I can’t be creative otherwise and for that person I was personifying God while he was controlling me was blasphemous. One of my keys is messed up and I have to go back and spell check over and over again. I know that person is not Nick, Paul or Aridog. I promise you it’s not. I know that you have fought with them but it’s not them. I am so sorry about anything I don’t know about here but I am NOT judgmental and I will do my level best to help heal here. It is my nature. I hate it when people fight. We are not pawns on a chessboard like the Fundies say for God to move at his Will. God gave us Free will as a gift and his creation of in his image was his mind – his imaginaton – is everywhere for us to see and create and make people well. That is not playing God. That is doing His Will without putting your own ego in it. I was agnostic all my life to atheism and not even the unknown god was there for me. So, you are doing better than I was for a while 😉
Inga, pity and mock me. It may be one of the last things that you do before the people, from the religion of peace, separate your body from your head. Please, mention to them that you are agnostic; that ought to impress them.
“By” Bye.
“Telling”, no one is trying to silence you, be all means carry on.
Nope, I said many times that I was an agnostic, funny it’s Spinelli who always says I’m an “atheist”, hmmmmm. “An enemy to be feared”? LOL! I’d say you more along the lines of someone to be pitied and mocked.
What religion are you, Inga? Thought you said that you were an atheist. How rich! Purporting to know my religious background or beliefs. Wow, you are the comic, not me. Would it make you feel better to know with which, if any, religion, I associate? Your responses are classic, since you are unable to defend the vile practices committed in the name of Islam. Suddenly, now I am the enemy to be feared. Deflection on your part is so incredibly obvious, as it is used as a tool of the weak and thoughtless. When the headcutters come for you, they will not give you a break because you think that they are swell. All those that you seek to silence won’t be around to defend you, either.
Inga – I know who he is. I also know if he truly thinks Hagee is a brilliant soul and I am dim that he is rather slow and unable to make clear analysis of the things he thinks he knows so well as he is so interested in knocking down those who are up and want to be helpful and link mankind in such a way. 😉
Eh…. boring….this guy is just your run of the mill Islamaphobe. And a poor representative of Christianity, IF he is one at all. To spew such nastiness to Happy is a giveaway of an angry hateful heart. Repent! Git down on yer knees, because the end is nigh and the moon will be red once again! Your very soul is in jeopardy sinner! And knock, knock , knock, ISIS is tapping at your front door with something sharp and shiny in their hands. Hang on to yer head.
Inga, not all fundamentalists of all religions call for death and destruction of nonbelievers; you saying so, even repeatedly, won’t change the truth.
happy, any comments to you feel as though I am picking on a mentally challenged individual. Others seem to perceive you in that light, so I am not alone. Of one thing I am quite certain; you are not the Holy Spirit, and it does not flow through you. The Holy Spirit has much better spelling than you, not to mention far superior writing skills! Lol!!!!!
Happy, “Telling” is not any type of Christian, I suspect. He is merely using Christianity to express his hatred for Muslims.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/03/scott-lively-anti-gay-law-uganda
Meet the fundamentalist Pastor behind Uganda’s anti gay movement.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/07/scott-lively-kill-the-gays-bill-supporter-on-trial-crimes-against-humanity_n_2425003.html
Fundamentalist Scott Lively and Kill the Gays bill.