By Darren Smith, Weekend Contributor
We previously wrote HERE of Richland, Washington Florist Baronelle Stutzman, the owner of Arlene’s Flowers, who caused a row when she refused to provide her floral services for a gay wedding. Now, a Benton County Superior Court Judge ruled that she violated the state’s consumer protection act that bars discrimination against a protected class.
The legal action was brought by customer Robert Ingersoll and the Washington Attorney General’s Office.
Judge Alex Ekstom rejected Baronelle’s arguments that her actions were protected by free speech and religious freedom guarantees stating in part:
“For over 135 years, the Supreme Court has held that laws may prohibit religiously motivated action, as opposed to belief. The Courts have confirmed the power of the Legislative Branch to prohibit conduct it deems discriminatory, even where the motivation for that conduct is grounded in religious belief.”
Robert had been a customer of Arlene’s Flowers for several years prior to the incident in question. Baronelle was aware that he was gay and had a partner Curt Freed for whom he purchased flowers. When Washington statutorily provided for gay marriage in 2012, Robert asked Baronelle to make the wedding arrangement for him. But, Baronelle declined, putting her hand upon Robert’s and stating that “because of [her] relationship with Jesus Christ”, she would not be able to do so—according to her statement in a deposition.
Curt and Robert sued. They cited the Washington Consumer Protection Act and its laws against discrimination. They supported by the Washington Chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union and the State Attorney General who welcomed the Superior Court ruling.
Attorney General Bob Ferguson in a statement said:
“The law is clear: If you choose to provide a service to couples of the opposite sex, you must provide the same service to same-sex couples.”
The state is seeking the two thousand dollar fine the statute provides.
The Alliance Defending Freedom organization announced the day after it would on behalf of Baronelle appeal the ruling. The alliance claimed that the ruling would bring financial ruin Baronelle and Arlene’s Flowers
By Darren Smith
Source: KOMO News
The views expressed in this posting are the author’s alone and not those of the blog, the host, or other weekend bloggers. As an open forum, weekend bloggers post independently without pre-approval or review. Content and any displays or art are solely their decision and responsibility.
Ok ….Darren. Thank you. I will remember to not use it again.
Here it is without the bad word 🙂
So, if you felt so inclined, in your utopian business world, you could refuse someone based on race, religion, ethnicity,
I think that people should have that right just as people should have the right to never patronize or even boycott a business that engages in those practices. Like the Chic-fil-A fluff up. People have every right to boycott that establishment and others have every right to ignore your boycott.
If you own a bar, you should be able to decide if you allow smoking. People can decide to go in and patronize you or not. You should be able to refuse service to people who are disruptive or disrespectful of your business establishment. NO shirt, no shoes, no service. I think you should not have to have a calorie count on the menu in a restaurant unless you want to put it there. If the patrons don’t like it they can eat elsewhere.
There are many reasons to refuse to do business with someone. You just cant use those that you cited.
Libertarianism doesn’t mean anarchy. It is in favor of less laws and less restrictions and more freedoms BUT….when there are legally enacted laws, those are trump.
SINCE there are laws against refusing service based on race, religion etc (with which I agree) and now laws based on and ever expanding group of protected classes, the business owner has no choice but to comply with the legally written and legally passed laws and not refuse service based on those criteria. If they don’t want to comply with those laws, then they either go out of business or break the laws if their religious or other principles are that important to them.
I based my (past) business decisions on whether the person will pay me, if they are worth my time and whether they are a difficult client or not. I shouldn’t have to give any reasons. I have turned away business in the past because I just don’t want to do business with some people…..and I don’t have to do business if I don’t want to.
If you came to me with a million dollars to invest and I didn’t like the cut of your jib, your attitude, your inability to listen to me and you have trouble written all over your face, I would refer you elsewhere. I can’t do it because I don’t like your religion or your race…..but I can sure do it for other reasons.
They won’t listen to me. Something about hypocrisy lololololol
Inga
You tell them
Fiver – that is right after I found my life, don’t ruin it please 😉
This florist didn’t seem to care if the gay customer bought flowers to take home to his lover, but balked when he needed flowers for a wedding that would alleviate the premarital sex between the couple. Her denial was probably a test case. Good for the customer, glad he won his case. We cannot get away with discrimination of people in a protected class and yes it is a shame we must put people in protected classes. Our Constitution and Bill of Rights should be enough to ensure non discrimination of people who reside here.
We Reserve The Right To Refuse Service To Anyone.
That is a sign in the Catholic Church near my doghouse and the Catholics think it is their First Amendment Freedom of Religion Prong, upon which they rest, that protects them from lawsuits by Baptists or Pedophiles who want to come in and take communion. The word “Service” means different strokes to different folks. The right of a person to order a “bent” cake and expect the bakery to provide it up to standard is not a right its a wishful thinking by thoughtless people. If you are bent you must go your own way. You have a right to go your own way but we don’t have to cater to you.
BitchinDog
Are you comparing Communion in the Roman Catholic Church to a Pedophile and a Baptist to a baker serving a cake to someone she ususally sells flowers too??????
Okkkaaaayyyy
I mean. They actually believe it’s the host. Sooo, idk. Seems far fetched.
DBQ, Had that happen earlier. Hit the back button and when your comment appears, hit refresh.
Apparently, being gay can increase the odds of being saved.
Some atheists care less about gay marriage, and care much more about sticking it to Christians. If you read some comments here carefully, you see it. And comparing the 2nd Amendment and this controversy is disingenuous, and also raise another red flag about intent. Some folks hate religion and guns, and will use any means necessary in expressing that hatred. So, they fly their gay pride flag here, not really caring much about the plaintiffs, just hating the defendants. And, getting in a dig on guns. That was the big red flag. This is what I do for a living, looking for what is really on people’s minds. Everyone has a “tell.”
And, let me say again, that while the temperature has increased a bit on this thread, it is still WNL. Kudos to all, particularly Max.
Help comment lost.
Dust Bunny Queen. The post had a prohibited word. For reference, the one used contained two $$ in it.
I don’t know how anyone can profess to love Jesus and refuse to make them a freaking cake. Because it’s against his religion.
I never said that I wasn’t a hypocrite. I am a human being. I am just sayin
Issac, we certainly discriminate with credit scores. But, credit scores aren’t people, right? What about not hiring a male dancer at a female strip club? What about the millions of organizations for women only….. no men allowed. Get a clue, then see about how many wagon circles you can count from your apartment window.
If I read correctly the woman was very personal to this man and gave him her hand as she explained herself. It is a real question as to why this actually was disrespectful to him since she seemed entirely tolerant up to the point of contributing to his wedding (which clearly would be a ceremonial even ritual participation at least in her mind).
So in the private exchange which of these are the more intolerant and disrespectful? How does this get publicized into a public spectacle and for what reasons other than an irrational retribution? Which one is the American Taliban in this scenario?
BRUCE E. WOYCH
Cool – American Taliban – lets make a song out of it.
DBQ
So, if you felt so inclined, in your utopian business world, you could refuse someone based on race, religion, ethnicity, etc. Is that libertarianism? It sounds like something else. Circle the wagons.
Karen S, brilliant and thoughtful response. Thank you. Why can’t we just be respectful of people’s points of view. There is just too much politicizing of everything and it’s toxic.
Old Nurse
Is there a song that goes with that
It’s Toxic
Hemlock and Socrates maybe?? lol
t was OK to sell him flowers for his boyfriend but wrong to sell him flowers for his wedding. And how do you make this distinction?
Well….one act…selling flowers for a “whatever” purpose. Giving them to a friend. Giving them to your Mom. As a bouquet for a dinner table event. Even giving them to a gay lover.These are actions without much of a religious basis or with any religious basis..
Being asked to create a special flower arrangement to be used in a religious ceremony or in a ceremony that your religion finds sinful is a completely different thing. It requires you to participate, in a way, in the ceremony which you and your church find to be sinful.
What if the florist is a Catholic and they know that the floral arrangement (or other artistic creation of theirs) were to be used in a Black Mass celebrating Satan. Would you demand that the Catholic be forced to make the arrangement? Should the Catholic dressmaker be forced to create the gown that the virgin sacrificial victim will be wearing during the Black Mass?
Please note, I am not saying, in my mind, that a homosexual marriage is equivalent to a Black Mass.
I, like Karen, believe that gay/same sex marriage should be a civil legality. I, however, don’t think that people should be forced to participate or hounded out of business if they have religious objections to being asked to participate.
I’m pretty sure that Jesus’ solution would not be to destroy the business of those with which he disagreed. He would probably teach forgiveness, tolerance, and peace.
Karen
Matthew 11:21
GOD’S WORD® Translation
“How horrible it will be for you, Chorazin! How horrible it will be for you, Bethsaida! If the miracles worked in you had been worked in Tyre and Sidon, they would have changed the way they thought and acted long ago in sackcloth and ashes.
Well, maybenot
who knows 😉
Karen S wrote: “I’m pretty sure that Jesus’ solution would not be to destroy the business of those with which he disagreed. He would probably teach forgiveness, tolerance, and peace.”
Well, Jesus did get a little testy when businesses encroached on the sanctity of the religious temple. Several times he went in with a whip and turned over their tables saying that they had made God’s house a den of thieves.
And Jesus also told the adulteress that he forgave to go and sin no more. I suppose then he would have offered forgiveness to the homosexual and told him to go and sin no more, meaning, to go and refrain from engaging in same sex relations. The Torah was pretty clear that same sex relations were a capital offense.
Davidm2575
Jesus was in a Holy Temple. Usury in God’s House and that was his beef. They were Emperors coins and not Temple coins and they where of less value and they were cheating the pilgrims come to worship. The gay couple was an established friendship that was good enough to sell Flowers to from their Floral shop. I was not aware that the business was considered a house of worship but the love of money thing could come int here.
Jesus also told people when they came to witness his miracles not to tell anyone, similarly to his admonitions to people not to sin any more. Did he expect them never to commit another sin? idk
Even Paul’s Letter to the Turlians doesn’t claim to know the mind of Jesus on this. 😉
fiver
But but but
What would he do???
Max-1 & happypappies: Leave your hypocrisy at the door. It is you who discriminates: “class, status, sex, orientation, color, creed, etc.” These are the labels you two proliferate. I’m sure “freak” has been openly used by the both of you your entire lives, it certainly is in science. I don’t see you finding a way to get these individuals protected from big, mean shop owners because it probably wouldn’t benefit you in any way. The truth is that we are all bigoted and hypocritical both, and you two monkeys would love to try and bury the truths all while labeling people? Think about it, then come back to the man table.
J everybody loves a hypocrite