Below is a videotape that is likely to be at the center of a growing controversy over the shooting of a homeless man by officers with the Los Angeles Police Department (LAPD). The officers say that they first tried to use a taser, which proved ineffective, and that the man then struggled with an officer over his service weapon. Various officers reportedly fired at the man who was declared dead at the scene. The man has only been identified by his street name, “Africa.”
The officers were from LAPD’s Central Division and Safer Cities Initiative and were responding to a call concerning a possible robbery. The videotape also shows a woman grabbing a police baton and being disarmed.
There are five shots that can be heard on the videotape below. Two officers and a sergeant reportedly fired at the man. One can also hear officers scream “drop the gun.” The question is how much can be seen of the critical moment when the man allegedly grabbed for the service weapon.
Notably, one account says that an officer had a body camera. That may help clear up the differing accounts.
Source: LA Times
Mr. Schulte,
Sure I see that too. But these are supposed trained officers. That’s why we as taxpayers pay for their training, uniforms, salaries, etc. They should be more aware of these issues. What kind of investment are we making?
Jill – “We cannot know what went on here until more information is available. What we can know is that the wealthiest nation in the world has a considerable population of people who are homeless. That is criminal. The govt. always has money for wars, to help the most wealthy banksters, to sell arms, etc. but we never have money to feed, clothe, house, treat the sick or educate the people. And we like to claim we are a Christian nation. I believe Jesus had some very strong words about this very thing! ”
You forgot we also have money for welfare for people who are able, Obama phones for people who sell them, money for ridiculous studies, etc… Teaching people to fish vs. giving them fish.
“This should not have happened because we should not have people without homes. ”
How do you know this? This all started because of a theft. Are you proposing that if we give homeless people, who usually suffer from mental illness, a house that they will not steal? Or, do we just let the govt. do the stealing for us so that they can hand it out?
Jim22 – much of our homeless population is because the Supreme Court ruled that people could not be institutionalized against their will unless they were a danger to themself or others. This cleared out the insane asylums and filled the streets and alleys.
As davidm stated, the taser makes a loud audible sound. I didn’t here it.
I can’t see the gun grab from video, but it happened at the 0:23 mark. Meantime woman with the cop baton got in the way. Maybe cops body camera will show better video.
Taser plus pepper spray should have stopped this guy. Again should have stopped guy.
Warren wrote: “Taser plus pepper spray should have stopped this guy.”
The taser was going off for nearly 5 seconds when the shot was fired. The taser sound started nearly immediately with the order to drop the gun. A taser causes involuntary contraction of the muscles. How is it possible for a person to comply with a command while a taser is going off on him? The taser may have caused the muscles of the man’s arm and hand to contract directly upon or near the gun, causing the LEO to be afraid and shoot the man.
One has to ask the questions: if this homeless man was not armed, was it really necessary to kill him? Did the LEO’s create the deadly situation?
david – you raise an interesting issue regarding the LEOs setting up a situation where the guy can be killed.
Jim22
That’s practical advice. I asked a direct question.
TJustice, See nick’s first post.
We cannot know what went on here until more information is available. What we can know is that the wealthiest nation in the world has a considerable population of people who are homeless. That is criminal. The govt. always has money for wars, to help the most wealthy banksters, to sell arms, etc. but we never have money to feed, clothe, house, treat the sick or educate the people. And we like to claim we are a Christian nation. I believe Jesus had some very strong words about this very thing!
A very conservative, red state, Utah at least has American pragmatism left in the minds of its people. They decided it was cheaper to pay for housing than to pay for people being on the street. I long for the day when Americans were able to be pragmatic.
This should not have happened because we should not have people without homes.
One last time I am going to link to a clear violation of our Constitutional rights, a State Crime against Democracy and our people. It is difficult to understand why this has not been addressed on a blog about Constitutional issues that we face:
“The Chicago police department operates an off-the-books interrogation
compound, rendering Americans unable to be found by family or attorneys
while locked inside what lawyers say is the domestic equivalent of a CIA
black site.
The facility, a nondescript warehouse on Chicago’s west side known as
Homan Square, has long been the scene of secretive work by special police
units. Interviews with local attorneys and one protester who spent the
better part of a day shackled in Homan Square describe operations that
deny access to basic constitutional rights.
Alleged police practices at Homan Square, according to those familiar with
the facility who spoke out to the Guardian after its investigation into
Chicago police abuse, include:
Keeping arrestees out of official booking databases.
Beating by police, resulting in head wounds.
Shackling for prolonged periods.
Denying attorneys access to the “secure” facility.
Holding people without legal counsel for between 12 and 24 hours,
including people as young as 15.”
At least one man was found unresponsive in a Homan Square “interview room”
and later pronounced dead.
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/feb/24/chicago-police-detain-americans-black-
Jill – I have read that Guardian article and I am not so sure that anything illegal is going on there. Granted they may be on the edge of what is legal, but I do not see them violating anyone’s rights. As long as you are not questioned you are not due Miranda Rights and you are not required to have an attorney available to you. How long they can hold you is the only question I have. The longest anyone complained about being held was 19 hours.
BTW, people do die in custody for things the police DO NOT do to them.
Jill wrote: “This should not have happened because we should not have people without homes.”
I agree that everyone deserves shelter and space to live. It is a blight upon our civilization that we have homelessness.
Some factors that have contributed to homelessness that progressives do not want to acknowledge is the fact that we have outlawed slavery and established a minimum wage. It use to be that a man who is failing in life could sell himself as an indentured servant for a period of time. When that person finished his term of service, he is sent off with a big wad of money, after being disciplined and trained by someone who knows how to be successful. Now that slave or indentured servant could be successful himself. In fact, the first slave owner, Anthony Johnson, was first himself an indentured servant, a black man captured in Angola and sold to a tobacco farmer in Virginia. He learned everything from his master and after 14 years was freed. Now, the cost to provide room and board to a person, plus a minimum wage, to a person with numerous social disabilities, sometimes drug addiction and mental illness, is just too high. So these people end up on the streets. We create these problems and then do not understand that we caused it.
“It does appear that several of the cops were surprised.”
That should give them the right to kill??
TJustice – my impression was that it was the action of one person as surprised the hell out of everybody else.
“If “in fact” the man was likely to disarm or had disarmed one of the officers then the use of force will be held to be justified.”
Mr. Smith,
Is this a good rule of law?
Is it only me, but did it sound like a taser was going off when the first shot was fired?
There appears to be a group of witnesses to the shooting on the corner. I wonder if any of them saw this man reach for the cops gun. The more video and the more witnesses the better. I hope it’s not another case of cop’s overreacting with deadly force.
This little extra video will be helpful, beside the body cam.
I cannot tell from the video. However, it seems to me he was facing towards the sidewalk so it would be hard for him to go for a gun. It does appear that several of the cops were surprised.
Five cops versus two arms and two legs. One cop per leg and arm all with a safe distance between two hands and the guns, a fifth cop to frisk and restrain. Somehow there is a missing part of training here.
I think all video should be viewed critically. That is healthy. I am an optimist but also a professional skeptic.
If in fact the man was likely to disarm or had disarmed one of the officers then the use of force will be held to be justified.
Problem for cops is that the public is losing trust in them.
There have been too many “justified” shootings that do not pass the sniff test (see the Albuquerque PD as a prime example).
before I even saw the video, my first reaction was suspicion/doubt – not right, but I suspect that many people will react like I did.
“The officers were from LAPD’s Central Division and Safer Cities Initiative…”
Geore Orwell would be so proud of the name.
This is a big story in SoCal. LAPD can be trigger happy. There is little dispute on that.
Rule #1: NEVER EVER reach for a cop’s gun.
What I have heard so far is the unarmed man was attempting to reach for the service weapon in the officers holster. While that may be true, the man was not within reach after the first shot.