Below is a videotape that is likely to be at the center of a growing controversy over the shooting of a homeless man by officers with the Los Angeles Police Department (LAPD). The officers say that they first tried to use a taser, which proved ineffective, and that the man then struggled with an officer over his service weapon. Various officers reportedly fired at the man who was declared dead at the scene. The man has only been identified by his street name, “Africa.”
The officers were from LAPD’s Central Division and Safer Cities Initiative and were responding to a call concerning a possible robbery. The videotape also shows a woman grabbing a police baton and being disarmed.
There are five shots that can be heard on the videotape below. Two officers and a sergeant reportedly fired at the man. One can also hear officers scream “drop the gun.” The question is how much can be seen of the critical moment when the man allegedly grabbed for the service weapon.
Notably, one account says that an officer had a body camera. That may help clear up the differing accounts.
Source: LA Times

No David, I read completely understand the section in which it states can’t be used in court. I also understand that one does have the right to have an attorney when arrested, or to remain silent. There is some goal post moving here.
The sentance I was disputing is this one.
on 1, March 2, 2015 at 11:59 amPaul C. Schulte
Jill – if you have not be charged with a crime you have no right to an attorney.
Maybe this is more your speed.
http://nursingfile.com/nursing-procedures/manual/cleaning-bedpans-and-urinals.html
Anne Marie, exactly. I was wondering if cops have some body telling them to yell, “Drop the gun, or don’t touch my gun!” before they use deadly force.
http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/arrests-interrogations-faq-29076-4.html
Thanks for the link, AnneMarie.
Paul, the legal experts at Nolo seem to be disagreeing with you.
“It doesn’t matter whether an interrogation occurs in a jail, at the scene of a crime, on a busy downtown street, or the middle of an open field: If a person is in custody (deprived of his or her freedom of action in any significant way), the police must read the Miranda rights if they want to ask questions and use the answers as evidence at trial.”
Inga – what part of NO QUESTIONING do you not understand?
Annie, you need to pay attention to the end of the sentence, “… if they want to ask questions and use the answers as evidence in a trial.”
But even that is not a hard and fast rule. You need to read this page about Miranda exceptions, also by nolo:
http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/statements-obtained-police-violate-miranda.html
Everything you post supports Paul’s assertions. You just don’t seem to comprehend what you are reading.
The cops can be herd clearly shouting for the suspect to drop the gun. Thus he was ARMED
See this recent case here:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/police-dash-cam-video-exonerates-nj-man-implicates-cops-article-1.1701763
A stunning police dashboard camera video helped exonerate an innocent New Jersey man — and led to the indictments of two Bloomfield cops who wrongly accused the man and allegedly beat him during the 2012 incident.
Before prosecutors were given a dashcam video from a second patrol car, Marcus Jeter faced charges of eluding police, resisting arrest and aggravated assault on an officer.
……
Neither that video nor the fact the officer struck Jeter’s SUV with his patrol car was ever mentioned in any police report of the incident.
“Get out the car!” one officer yells as he uses a baton to smash the driver’s side window. “Get out!”
Jeter says he was scared he’d be shot if he exited the car. Instead, he says — and the video supports this claim — he sat where he was with his hands in the air as the officers broke the window, unlocked his door and worked to get his seatbelt off to arrest him.
“The next thing I know, as he’s coming around the car, the glass gets busted and all the glass goes in my face,” Jeter told WABC. “My hands are up. As soon as he opens the door, one of the officers just reached in and punched me in the face. As he’s trying to take my seatbelt off, he’s elbowing me in my jaw. And I’m like ‘Ahhh!’ and he’s like ‘Stop trying to take my gun! Stop resisting arrest!’”
“As soon as he say that, I’m thinking something’s going to go wrong.”
“Stop grabbing my gun” has definitely been used to justify illegal force.
“Skid row shooting of homeless man by LAPD provokes search for more video”
http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-lapd-shooting-20150302-story.html#page=1
“On Monday morning a second video shot from a slightly different angle emerged, also showing a violent struggle between officers and the man before the shots were fired.
But there could be more footage.
LAPD Sgt. Barry Montgomery noted that there were at least two surveillance cameras mounted on buildings at the scene.
The encounter was recorded by body cameras worn by at least one of the officers involved. It was unclear what that recording shows.”
You can back this up Paul?
“It doesn’t matter whether an interrogation occurs in a jail, at the scene of a crime, on a busy downtown street, or the middle of an open field: If a person is in custody (deprived of his or her freedom of action in any significant way), the police must read the Miranda rights if they want to ask questions and use the answers as evidence at trial.”
Assuming there is body cam video, what would the acceptable time allow before release to the public? I suspect they hold it long enough for all the officers to view it before they write their reports.
http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/police-questioning-miranda-warnings-29930.html
Miranda Rights.
Inga – just because you are arrested does not mean they need to give you your Miranda Warnings. Often they don’t hoping you will confess in the ride downtown. You only need the Miranda Warning when you are going to be questioned, not when you are going to be shackled to a bench.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miranda_warning#/media/File:Miranda_warning_written_words_public_document.jpg
http://www.civilfreedoms.org/?page_id=62
Paul. This is what you said. You are wrong. Doesn’t matter what state you are in as to if you have a right to an attorney before being charged.
on 1, March 2, 2015 at 11:59 amPaul C. Schulte
Jill – if you have not be charged with a crime you have no right to an attorney.
Inga – I will stand by what I said. If you are not being charged, or being questioned you have no right to an attorney. So, if you are just in custody, you have no right to an attorney. The question is how long can they hold them before they charge them or question them?
While I think the shootings in Ferguson, and Cleveland were clear cases of police misconduct and the cops should be on trial, this one is not one such case. Tasers from what I understand only work well on sober, sane people. The cops can be herd clearly shouting for the suspect to drop the gun. Thus he was ARMED. While they erred in how they let him get a weapon, once he did, they had every right to shoot him. Simple.
randyjet wrote: “The cops can be herd [sic] clearly shouting for the suspect to drop the gun. Thus he was ARMED.”
I would not make the assumption he was armed just because police were yelling this. The police have certain code words that they use all the time whether they apply or not, because it exonerates them.
I was standing just feet away when a Tampa police officer arrested a man. The man was perfectly complying, but the officer started yelling, “Stop Resisting Arrest! Stop Resisting Arrest!” It was as if the officer was going psycho because there was absolutely no resistance. This same police officer then put his leg between the arrestee’s legs and twisted his arms violently. In retrospect it became clear that the officer was using code words that justified him hurting the arrestee and upgrading charges. The man was engaged in free speech activity and previously won his court cases when the police arrested him for disturbing the peace. So now, the officer being upset at the previous court victory, was setting up a new stage of arrest. Instead of arresting him on disturbing the peace, he added charges of resisting arrest and assault and battery on a police officer. The officer claimed the arrestee kicked him during the arrest (which was basically the officer’s leg brushing against the arrestee’s legs when the officer placed his leg there while yelling Stop Resisting Arrest!).
Sadly, we cannot simply assume anymore that an officer’s word is true. It used to be that the word of a police officer was far more trusted than the word of a homeless man. Not anymore.
https://www.ohiobar.org/ForPublic/Resources/LawFactsPamphlets/Pages/LawFactsPamphlet-21.aspx
Paul, you seriously should stop giving out bad information.
Inga – we are talking Illinois, not Ohio. Different states, slightly different rights. Basically you will see I am right. As I said, my problem is how long can they hold you without charging you, which seems to be the problem. I think in NY they can hold you for 24 hours.
in the UK the Bobbies very seldom use force such as this.
Edward – the Bobbies are starting to use force like this.
Paul, you must have read a different Constitution and a different article. People are entitled to call an attorney and people did come forward claiming they were beaten in custody.
Like Gitmo, sure it could be that people hung themselves in a maximum security cell and then stuffed socks down their throats once they were dead. Yep, happens all the time!
Jill – the Guardian article does not list one person who claims to have been beaten in custody. And read the Constitution. It will be an eye-opener for you. If you want to pay for an attorney while you are handcuffed for 16 hours then be my guest. 🙂
Jim22,
Like many conservatives/and or libertarians you don’t see that the govt. is already stealing you blind. They are just giving it to the rich. No one is teaching bankers and arms dealers to fish. They are taking your money to the tune of trillions of dollars. Laws are made so they can spread their chum and fleece more people.
Obama doesn’t care a wit about homelessness or the well being of ordinary people. We have the greatest income inequality in our nation’s history under this president. Please consider that the idea that Obama is a liberal who cares about the people is propaganda designed to confuse both liberals and conservative. Obama is giving your tax money away, true, just not to the people you think.
We could be pragmatists like the people of Utah. They did a financial calculation and people have homes. We could do another financial calculation and stop funding banksters, arms dealers, war contractors and energy companies. Really, we could do this!
Jill – if we don’t fund banksters, you don’t pay for your internet provider. If we don’t fund energy companies, you don’t get to blog on here. If we don’t fund war contractors and arms dealers, ISIS is moving into your house.
A short list Paul: (And I meant to say untroubling!)
“Keeping arrestees out of official booking databases.
Beating by police, resulting in head wounds.
Shackling for prolonged periods.
Denying attorneys access to the “secure” facility.
Holding people without legal counsel for between 12 and 24 hours,
including people as young as 15.”
At least one man was found unresponsive in a Homan Square “interview room”
and later pronounced dead.”
These actions aren’t Constitutional and I have no idea why a citizen would defend them. These are your fellow citizens Paul, people like yourself, some of whom were in there for the crime of protesting. Technically, our Constitution does protect free speech. How about you?
Paul, People were denied a right to an attorney. Their families and attorneys did not know where they are. There was also the little matter of torture and murder? What part of those actions do you find Constitutional and troubling?
Jill – if you have not be charged with a crime you have no right to an attorney. The articles had claims of beatings but no one came forward and put their hand up and said yes, the police beat me. As the the custodial death, that is not murder, that is a custodial death. They happen. I had an acquaintance who died in jail from an asthma attack.