Seven children are being flown to Israel after dying in a fire in Brooklyn. The fire was started by a common practice among Ultra-Orthodox jews. Since they believe God does not want them to use fire or engage in any work (including the turning on of appliances) on the Sabbath, they turn on hot plates before the Sabbath and leave them on. In this case, the hot plate caused the fire that trapped the children and badly injured their mother and another sibling. The father, Gabriel Sasson was at a religious . Lost are Eliane, 16; Rivkah, 11; and Sara, 6; and boys David, 12; Yeshua, 10; Moshe, 8; and Yaakob, 5.
At the time of the fire, Sasson, a religious education instructor was at a Shabbaton, an educational retreat.
We have previously discussed the curious practices used to circumvent the limitations by the Ultra Orthodox including elevators that require all riders to stop on every floor to avoid the need to push a button. Other practices are more serious including dangerous practices associated with circumcision. In this case, a prohibition on fire does not apparently prevent the use of electrical heat but only if you do not actually turn on the device during the Sabbath.
The deaths have caused ultra orthodox families to discuss this practice which is widespread in the community.
Shame on you, Prof. Turley, for sensationalizing and exploiting an unspeakable tragedy in the service of criticizing ultra-Orthodox Jews and a type of Orthodox Judaism. Just for the record, I am not one, no personal ox being gored here. Just outraged and sickened, as a parent and, I hope, decent human being, at your tactics, including the breathtakingly incendiary (no pun intended) and insensitive headline you chose.
TJustice
Do not equate someone choosing to refrain from turning on and off electrical appliances, in observance of the Sabbath, with Islam, which promotes and specifically directs its adherents to kill infidels, among other insane directives. What you call QUEER is based on a strict interpretation of the Bible, and is not violent or destructive. Yes, there was a terrible tragedy because the mother left a hot plate on, but to compare this adherence to Biblical law to the QUEER things found in Islam is asinine, even for you.
You should have no problem with anyone’s religious beliefs as long as you are not threatened by them or forced to convert, both, of course, appear to be a problem in Islam, not in Judaism. Trust me, TJustice, no Jews are going to ask you to convert. They are not looking for additional problems.
So when persons practicing Judaism engage in rather queer practices it is dangerous to family matters, but when persons practicing Islam engage in queer practices….. RUN!!!!!!!!!
Has the father been arrested for murder?
I do not like when people leave those hot plates on…some even leave a gas range on with a big metal thing on it. It always scared me. Most orthodox jews do not use these things rather they use a simple crock pot for a kind of stew on the Sabbath. Additionally as someone else pointed out it is a common practice on holidays when religious law allows you to do such things as cook unlike on the Sabbath people have industrial timers on the oven to switch it on and off close to meal times.
Betty Boop:
While a prior warning of adverse consequences undoubtedly makes for a stronger case, both criminally and civil, that doesn’t mean that absolutely no responsibility exists in the absence of a warning. In fact, depending on the issue and the extent to which the possibility of adverse consequences should be reasonably anticipated by a sentient adult, the absence of a formal prior warning may make very little difference with regard to legal responsibility.
Does the dealer who sells a car, or the manufacturer who made it, inform the purchaser of each and every one of the countless places where he/she shouldn’t drive that car (the sidewalk, into a crowd, into a ditch, …) and of all of the countless physical conditions under which he/she shouldn’t drive (sleepy, drunk, stoned, without one’s prescription eyewear if needed, …)? Would failure to deliver an exhaustive list of warnings negate the driver’s responsibility? Would failure to deliver any warnings at all negate the driver’s responsibility? I contend that any sentient adult should know that a ton or more of moving metal poses risks, and must be operated responsibly, and anything less is at least negligence.
Paul C. Schulte:
“Unattended”? To channel Bill Clinton: It depends on what the meaning of “unattended” is.
We can split hairs, but the proof is in the pudding. If the hot plate had been attended, the fire would have been spotted at the moment it broke out, and escape should have been possible.
Nopiate – I have seen fires flash and be almost impossible for a normal family to put out. I agree that unattended means different things to different people, but in the manner you had used it, the entire family had been in the house. It appears they were escaping from the 2nd floor, the couple that did escape.
Paul C. Schulte: True, it is a customary procedure, but then so is refusal to seek medical care for a sick child in certain Christian fundamentalist communities.
Betty Boop: The crock pot of your example differs. That is an appliance that is probably of lower wattage than a hot plate, has insulation to contain most of the heat within, is designed to left on for extended periods, and probably has a thermostat to shut itself off should it overheat. You are being commendably prudent in not leaving a crock pot operating unattended, but I don’t think that you would be considered negligent if you did. A hot plate is an entirely different matter, for reasons stated above, and I do think that leaving one on unattended for an extensive period does constitute criminal negligence.
Nopiate
Your comparison, with regard to this situation, to those who refuse to seek medical attention for their children, due to religious reasons, is off the mark here. In the first scenario, parents are informed and warned that a refusal to allow a treatment or operation will most likely result in harm or death for the children. There, the parents are making a deliberate decision to withhold medical assistance, with full knowledge of the potentially deadly consequences.
Here, the situation involves a mother, albeit not the brightest bulb in the box, who allowed a hot pot to remain on. As far as we know, there is no evidence that she was actively warned or cautioned that this behavior would likely result in the loss of her seven children and the torching of her home. Comparing it to those who ignore repeated requests to aid children in need of medical assistance, based on religious prohibitions, doesn’t match this situation.
Hot plate, not hot pot. Oops.
Nopiate of the Masses – since the hotplate was in the home when the fire started, it was not unattended.
Nopiate
What do you do about a person who leaves a crock pot simmering for 8 hours or longer? Those things are marketed with a set it and forget it kind of attitude. Although that is supposed to be the beauty of this kind of appliance, I, personally, would never leave a crock pot simmering in my home unattended. Call me hyper vigilent or anything else, but I just don’t do it. Having said that, I do not unplug all of my appliances when they are not in use. Do you? From what I’ve read, any appliance plugged in, whether actually turned on or not, drains energy. If that’s true, couldn’t a fire result?
Tragedy indeed, but avoidable tragedy, and therefore the parents have criminal culpability. I’ll defend an adult’s right to place himself/herself at risk by such religious practices, but that adult has no right to endanger his or her own children (or anyone else, such as co-residents in an apartment building). If a Christian fundamentalist’s religious beliefs on matters of medical care caused the death of said fundamentalist’s children, they would be prosecuted. This case should not be any different.
Nopiate of the Masses – since this seems to be a customary procedure I do not see any criminal liability.
You would mug yourself and then eat pasta.
Nick
What if you are all three? Lol!
And, thanks for the invite, Betty. I get the distinct feeling you can cook! If someone loves to talk about food, good chance they love to cook and are good @ it. My experience is 3 groups that LOVE to talk about the food of their people are Jews, blacks and Italians.
Betty, You are a great new commenter. And, The Marx Bros. are one of my favs!
I thought it was an Edible Arrangement.
Betty beware of Nick. I had him to my house once and he ate the centerpiece.
We are still talking about it.
Betty, I come from a restaurant family. I was taught to be very easy on the seasonings, particularly salt, when making soups/stews; for the evaporation reason you state. And, if you invite Trooper to your house for a meal, count the silverware!
Nick, you are invited, as well. Bring your appetite. While my cooking will never match up to that of my Mom and Grandma, I have a feeling that you and trooperyork would enjoy one of my typical five course Shabbos meals.
As far as the silverware, I just couldn’t resist sending this video. 🙂
This is terrific. Every parent should watch what their children are doing, even though it is a religious program. We should always take care that life hazard may come without warning and may beyond our estimation. Keep safety of your whole family.
Thanks Betty.
Come to my house, trooperyork, for a nice, relaxing Shabos meal. I don’t cook with salt. You are welcome anytime.
A possible reason as to why the food you had tasted salty–while the food is actually prepared before the Sabbath, it is sometimes re-warmed in the oven or on the stove top several times, which may explain the salty taste. Foods, like soup, which are warmed for long periods of time, will tend to evaporate, leaving the food with a salty taste.
Trooperyork – when I was in college we were never allowed to have hotplates in our dorm rooms or apts. For some reason they were a fire hazard.