Despite far more pressing problems, Tennessee Senate and House committees have been working to make the Bible the official book of Tennessee — adding the Bible with catfish (the state fish) as a symbol of the state. Of course, cat fish are not matters of faith (beyond the hope and prayer of every fisherman). The House sponsor, Rep. Jerry Sexton, R-Bean Station, added “talking points” to bill. Sexton was only elected in 2015 but is wasting no time in trying to rollback on the separation of church and state.
The bill was approved by the Senate State and Local Government Committee by a 7-0-2 vote. Only two abstained. Not a single opposing vote. The House State Government Committee approved the bill (HBO615) by a voice vote about an hour later.
Rep. William Lamberth, R-Cottontown insists that it must be constitutional because “It doesn’t in any way, shape, form or fashion say that anyone has to read this book. It doesn’t mean anyone has to believe in the tenets of this book.”
Legislators could argue that they are associating the state with the generally accepted elements of the Bible such as the values expressed in the book. However, rabbis and clerics of other religious are objecting. The book also ascribes to one view of the Almighty. Moreover, the official designation will require some state action by employees in listing and featuring the book. It would raise an interesting and potentially expensive court case for the state. If the legislators tried to erect a monument to the Bible, there would be a credible challenge. What is the difference between a monument on the grounds and this designation?
Putting aside the question of the separation of powers, the claim of constitutionality does not make this the right thing to do. There are many citizens in Tennessee who follow other faiths or no faith. This is the majority forcing all citizens to associate with the religious book of one faith. If one truly believe in free exercise of religion, it should come with a respect for the faiths of others. The concept of tolerance and pluralism runs deeply in our values as a nation.
The fact that not a single member had the courage to oppose this bill on principle is a deeply sad reflection on our current politics. Imagine who people would feel is a bill passed making the Koran the official book or the Torah. It is not enough to say that you might be able to get away with dong something wrong — I learned that as a kid from the Bible.
Source: The Tennessean
I’m sure this has nothing whatsoever to do with RFRA and the gay mafia beatdown of the pizza-maker’s daughter.
Nothing at all.
Another thing Jesus never said..
… I am Caesar, make law according to me
Max-1 – Jesus never said Marry those gays.
Squeeky
The Birther Bible…
… Is this where we find Jeb’s birth certificate that proves he’s Hispanic? Or Cruz’s birth certificate that clarifies he’s not his daddy’s Cuban/Canadian son?
Raff, anon
The people of Tennesee should sue their legislature for their taxes back… Settle with a Judge and charge the Senators and House Reps with contempt of the People of the State and force each member of the Legislature that assisted in this userpation of the Peoples Rights with civil liability charges that makes each one pay out of their pockets, individually, to cover the costs.
Maybe the People can organize recalls since the Legislature won’t impeach itself…
Regarding bibles, when I was a rabid academic, during some seminars on the history of Western Literature, we studied the New Jerusalem Bible. It was quite interesting. I believe it was the first modern bible that was translated directly from the original sources. Scholars from all around the world, mainly throughout Europe, did different books. If I remember correctly the Book of Job was translated from the original scrolls by J. R. R. Tolkien.
Another very interesting scholastic work was a huge book with four translations in English on each page. Each translation was from one of the earliest sources. What was interesting was that the word for love in the Greek translation has four distinct meanings: Eros-erotic, Philos-brotherly, Storgy-dependant, and Agapeo-ultimate. Most of the time the story was the same but here and there were indications of the convolutions Christianity has gone through since it was begun. It is still a combination of common sense, perhaps the greatest story ever, and ever adapting to the moment.
It’s kind of like that American sacred story that gave us the Constitution, Bill of Rights, etc. Some see that as an ever evolving progress addressing the moment and other see it as something irrefutable and carved in stone. Others see it as governed by common sense.
Generally speaking “students” [private citizens] can wear or post any religious symbols like religious stickers on school lockers or tee shirts. It would be illegal for a public school [government entity] to post religious symbols on the wall. If private schools receive any taxpayer dollars (federal/state grants, tax exemptions, etc) it complicates the issue. Private schools that are 100% privately financed and receive no special tax exemptions are pretty free to do most things in most cases.
Think it may be legal for teachers [also citizens] as long as they don’t require students to participate in prayers or religious teaching. Most smart schools just allow a moment of silence so the students can pray if they want to or not.
fiver,
“This certainly does violate Establishment Clause”
How? Did the govt. tell her to wear it? did the govt. buy it for her? Is she forcing other people in her govt setting to wear one? It’s kind of amazing the power and threat you feel a simple cross has.
So you believe people can be religious as long as they are forced to hide it. Some “free exercise” you have there.
As for your question.
“I’m wondering if your opinion on the teacher might be different if she knelt towards Mecca and chanted in Arabic. ‘Cause, hey, that’s not “establishment,” right?”
I honestly wouldn’t care if the teacher needed to do this before doing her job. Now if she forced the students to join her, that would be different. Just as I would have issue if the cross wearing teacher forced children to pray with her.
Another favorite of mine is The Birther Bible. It was written a very clever and humble, but beautiful, wag. It would only be interesting to those who know something about the Birther’s various legal troubles and their long unbroken record of ridiculous idiotic legal claims, courtroom losses, sanctions, and general judicial disrespect, including losing once, in Georgia, to an empty chair :
https://birtherthinktank.wordpress.com/the-birther-bible/
From The Book of Lamentations
https://birtherthinktank.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/lamentations1.jpg?w=490&h=426
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
Jim22,
Words don’t scare me, Jim. Terms of art shouldn’t scare you either.
“Separation of church and state” waters down nothing. Lawyers and courts use the phrase all the time and it has been endorsed by the US Supreme Court (See, e.g., Everson v. Board of Education, 330 U.S. 1 (1947).
In your example of the teacher wanting to wear a visible (I assume) cross while teaching children, I disagree with your analysis on both counts. This certainly does violate Establishment Clause as it is a clear endorsement of Christianity by an agent of government – to impressionable children no less.
On the other hand, her right to free exercise of religion is burdened minimally, if at all. She is not being prohibited from wearing a cross or from any other religious expression except when is acting as an agent of government in front of impressionable children. Of course, she could just wear the cross beneath her blouse.
I’m wondering if your opinion on the teacher might be different if she knelt towards Mecca and chanted in Arabic. ‘Cause, hey, that’s not “establishment,” right?
One of my favorite “Bibles” is The Boomer Bible, which you just have to read to believe the scope of it. It is on line, and here is a link to it:
http://theboomerbible.com/
When you enter, and pick a book, like the Book of Krauts, or The Book of Apes, and go to it, you will have an option of “next” to continue in that book. It also has a concordance. Here is a sample from The Book of Psongs:
Jim22:
In additional to the “letter” of any law or constitution, there is also the “spirit” (or intent) which is actually more important in interpreting law.
For example: the 2nd Amendment doesn’t cover a Gatlin gun since they weren’t invented until the 1800’s, but the U.S. Supreme Court uses the “spirit” of the law to interpret it’s meaning in the 21st Century.
Also the word “suspect” is not listed in the Constitution but the word “accused” means the same thing.
One of my favorites is the 9th Amendment that covers “unnamed” rights. Some constitutional students believe things like “hunting” actually fall under the 9th Amendment more than the 2nd Amendment.
It’s complicated stuff, that’s why we have a U.S. Supreme Court to make the final interpretation and draw the legal boundaries which is then the supreme law of the land for every state.
fiver – “Jim22,
Do you really think the “lemming idiots” need to shout “Make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof! Suspend her!” to get the point across?”
Yes I do since their point fails when the words are really spoken or written. “Separation of church and state” is an easy way to water down the true meaning for the idiot lemmings. Why do the real words scare you? In my example, the state is not establishing a religion but the individual is being denied free exercise. Where exactly is “free exercise” in the phrase “separation of church and state”? “Separation of church and state” makes it sound like the two shale never mix (Which I’m sure is why you love it over the real wording), which is not what the first amendment states.
I am from a foreign planet and we believe that humans need guidance and that religion is a good thing for humans– up to a point. There is a dog on the blog here who speaks about the role of dogs and the 8th Day Adventism religion. You will probably never see a dog, whether in Tennessee or elsewhere, advocating some Bible to thumpers or humpers. However, the Dog as Giving Guidance To Mankind has some good attributes to it. We on Remulak would like to advocate this in place of the Catholics or Baptists. If you do not have a dog as a pal, then think about it. I am now in Ferguson watching over the flock and I see a lot of folks here with dogs and they are doing quite well despite the outsiders like Al Sharptongue. I drive through TN on the way to New Orleans. Good music in Nashville. I did not meet any Bible thumpers.
Jim22,
Separation of church and state certainly is in the Constitution; it’s just phrased differently.
Do you really think the “lemming idiots” need to shout “Make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof! Suspend her!” to get the point across?
Nah. We’re adults. We can easily operate on a level that uses shorthand terms of art.
“Separation of church and state” is merely a shorthand (coined by a Founding Father) that includes both the Establishment Clause and the Free Exercise Clause.
Look, all good “christians” know that their god is the one and true god. therefore whatever they do is justified by their god because they are right and you are wrong. Simple.
As to which version. Well that is simple as well. The King James version. we all know that jesus spoke King James English, what other possibility is there?
” The King James version. we all know that jesus spoke King James English, what other possibility is there?”
The Action Bible
The Picture Bible
The Lion Graphic Bible
The Manga Bible
The Comic Book Bible – and many others.
I was kinda’ thinking that picture book bible would work pretty good for Tennessee – considering their funding for education.
As I posted above, the Tennesee State Constitution makes this illegal to begin with. These lawmakers’ contempt for Law and their own Peoples Constitution.
fiver – ” [A]nyone that knows their history at all knows that there is no such thing as separation of state and church… read the 1st amendment again if you think that there is?=.
I did a word search on the First Amendment and couldn’t find the exact phrase “separation of state and church” (or “separation of church and state”). So, I guess, on that simplistic basis….
Except … different words and phrases can mean the same thing (even the dog is rolling her eyes as I type this). While this is patently obvious to most people, some seem to require that a thick, hardcover book be aggressively waved around for legitimacy. I suggest Roget’s Thesaurus.
So, we can use the shorthand phrase “separation of church and state,” or we can use the phrase “make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.”
They mean the same thing, but the latter is a PITA to type. Given that the Founders were using quill and inkwell to write, it’s hardly surprising that Jefferson coined the shorthand.
But, for those whose religious beliefs forbid the recognition of synonyms, equivalent phrasing, terms of art, etc., remember: your limited, simplistic, literal approach would also result in a “free exercise” clause which only protects the right to naked calisthenics while praying.”
fiver, the issue that I have with “Separation of church and state” is that as it gets repetitively used the lemming idiots actually think it is in the constitution (like people think rain drops are tear drop shaped) and it too gets misinterpreted. It seems to get applied to everything like a teacher wearing a cross to work at a public school. Lemmings will scream “Separation of church and state, suspend her!”. In this teachers case, the state is not establishing a religion but the teacher is not being allowed free exercise. “Separation of church and state” then becomes a way to mask the real meaning and it dumbs down society. If it’s not in there, it’s not in there.
I think Tennessee is trying to become the most right wing nut job state in the country. Bibles as state boooks and banning toy guns but allowing real guns nearly everywhere:
However, The Tennessean has reported that Embody has carried an AR-15, a large rifle, when he’s around schools. If the gun is operational and he has a permit for the weapon, the new state amendment wouldn’t apply.
If he carried a fake gun, he would be breaking the new law.
http://www.tennessean.com/story/news/politics/2015/03/31/house-bill-bans-fake-guns-not-real-guns-near-schools/70721508/
Joblessness, healthcare access, economic injustice, poverty, homelessness? No. Bibles and guns. As usual, the way to rile and excite the right’s base is ramble about guns, God and gays. Seems Tennessee’ politicians are closing in on the trifecta….
What version of the Bible do they adopt? If it is the Sears Roebuck Bible then the Sixth Commandment of Thou Shalt Not Kill will have been perverted to Thou Shalt Not Murder. But if it is a sacred Bible then the Sixth Commandment will mean that the state can not kill humans anymore in the name of The Great People of the State of Tennessee. That is the Y’all Can Exception. I would like to litigate this.
Well, maybe they’ll secede. Texas next.