By Darren Smith, Weekend Contributor
With all constituencies reporting, the Irish citizenry approved a constitutional amendment recognizing gay marriage: Yes 1,201,607; No 734,300.
The Constitution of Ireland permits amendment only by popular vote. A vote of the people for such amendments can provide more legitimacy and acceptance by the public and judging by the margin gay marriage will probably gain acceptance more readily. Nevertheless it does not necessarily engender full acceptance of such partnerships as over seven hundred thousand voters chose otherwise. Some institutions in Irish society will struggle to come to terms with the new direction Ireland is pursuing.
Change has been underway with the Irish government’s approach to the issue. Ireland decriminalized homosexuality twenty two years ago and later in 2010 the state voted to permit same sex civil unions to have same legal status as heterosexual couples. Yet there existed considerable debate as to whether a full marriage would be permitted. In 2013 a constitutional convention formed to explore the possibility of amending the Irish Constitution to allow the right to marriage regardless of gender of either party. In 2014 a referendum was drafted to be posed to the people. Voting occurred yesterday.
Probably the most visible unresolved question will be that of the Catholic Church which is not legally bound presently to perform gay marriages by its clergy or within its facilities. The vast majority of Irish are of the Catholic religion which might put more tradition minded church leaders against a younger demographic which sided with the Yes camp in greater proportions. The higher age demographic was more likely to belong to the No camp.
The issue has the potential to cause a schism within the church because doctrine disallows such marriages and the church’s hierarchy answers to the Vatican which ultimately could set policy contrary to that of Catholic Church in Ireland. The issue of gay marriage has caused fragmentation of protestant churches in the United States.
It is likely that in the afterglow of the passage of the referendum Ireland will experience strong debate while it tries to understand and embrace this change. Time will be ultimately the deciding factor. The younger generation embraces gay marriage. Eventually it will not be a significant matter for controversy but like most controversies first generation likely will be the one to struggle the most.
By Darren Smith
The views expressed in this posting are the author’s alone and not those of the blog, the host, or other weekend bloggers. As an open forum, weekend bloggers post independently without pre-approval or review. Content and any displays or art are solely their decision and responsibility.
David said…
“Can you imagine the high handedness of gays when they have the full imprimatur of government behind them? It will be like Lot in the city of Sodom all over again, with a mob of homosexuals demanding to have sex with the new guests in town.”
******************
Oh wow, I can just see roving bands of gay thugs raping skinny weak men in the streets! Here they come now!
https://zeipoliticalqueer.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/silly-gay-men.jpg
I. Annie wrote: “Oh wow, I can just see roving bands of gay thugs raping skinny weak men in the streets! Here they come now!”
LOL. Excellent illustration. Thanks for the support.
FOR.
David,
These two were the owners of a GOR PROFIT wedding chapel business. NOT a church. Churches have never been compelled to marry anyone for any reason.
I. Annie wrote: “These two were the owners of a GOR PROFIT wedding chapel business. NOT a church. Churches have never been compelled to marry anyone for any reason.”
Exactly! And now that couples does exactly what they were doing before, but now they do it as a tax exempt church.
The only reason churches have not been compelled is because they have been specifically exempted in these artificial laws. They are exempted in order to get votes and get the laws passed. Once they are passed, it gives them leverage. Eventually, the inequality of the law will be pointed out. Once homosexuality is embraced, that defect will be shown. The argument will become, “why are churches allowed to hate gays? That is not right. The law is supposed to be equal. Arrest those in the churches who will not marry gays.”
David, you are letting unreasonable fear rule you. Maybe sometime in July you will be moving to Costa Rica!
I. Annie wrote: “David, you are letting unreasonable fear rule you.”
You are incredibly naive. It’s kind of cute.
No David, I just don’t scare easily.
trooper
You’ve changed the subject to commercial businesses. The law has long played a role in regulating commerce.
I said to alert me when the law compels religious same sex marriage.
I continue to look forward to your first alert.
Wadewilliams wrote: “You’ve changed the subject to commercial businesses. The law has long played a role in regulating commerce. I said to alert me when the law compels religious same sex marriage.”
Really? You don’t know that the religious run businesses? Really?
The law is supposed to apply to everyone equally. This is probably the worst effect of the gay agenda is that in order to get their policy approved, they have to divide society up between religious and non-religious. They provide exemptions in order to get votes. Once the laws get passed, all hell will break lose. You’ll see. History repeats itself. That is why civilized societies articulated a principle of equality. The gay activists have hijacked that principle and made it into something else, all the while passing laws that do not apply to all individuals in society equally.
Ask the bakers and the pizza store owners and the photographers who they are trying to run out of business. They were not allowed to follow the dictates of their conscience. Their beliefs were not to be “tolerated.” It had to be eradicated by force of law. Penalties. The politics of personal destruction because they held politically incorrect beliefs.
Or the jeweler who made a custom ring but it was still not enough because of his personal religious beliefs. Even providing a service is not enough.
The end game for the gay mafia is the destruction of conservative religious tradition in all its forms. They will be satisfied with nothing less.
trooper
I look forward to your alert the minute you (or your heirs) get wind of the first compelled same sex marriage religious ceremony in the United States.
I’m young. Your ‘window’ is very big.
It’s coming. It is only a matter of time.
David
Be sure to let us all know when the first RC priest, Baptist minister, or orthodox rabbi is COMPELLED by law to marry a same sex couple in the United States.
Until then, your view of what equality is about is very mistaken.
Wadewilliams wrote: “Be sure to let us all know when the first RC priest, Baptist minister, or orthodox rabbi is COMPELLED by law to marry a same sex couple in the United States.”
I guess you missed this story last year about the Hitching Post Wedding Chapel:
http://jonathanturley.org/2014/10/21/same-sex-marriage-showdown-idaho-ministers-told-to-perform-same-sex-marriages-or-face-fines/
Even Christian bakers were fined $135,000 for not embracing the sexual immorality of gay marriage:
http://www.ijreview.com/2015/04/306447-2-tough-weekend-controversial-christian-bakery-receives-135000-fine-gofundme-account-canceled/
Can you imagine the high handedness of gays when they have the full imprimatur of government behind them? It will be like Lot in the city of Sodom all over again, with a mob of homosexuals demanding to have sex with the new guests in town.
It seems a little defective to me to be able to amend a country’s Constitution by a simple majority vote. Nevertheless, Ireland was smart in making this amendment affect only civil marriages. Churches cannot be subject to discrimination lawsuits like they would in our country. This is basically one law for the secular people and another law for the religious. No equality in law is present here at all.
Ultimately, laws like this that do not affect everyone equally will lead to more civil unrest. Ireland has been a boiling pot for such in the not too distant past. I expect more turmoil down the road as people become more polarized toward their own ideologies.
Super-Duper majority…
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-vgEklYK71wU/VWDDYBvOEeI/AAAAAAADZ-0/_eRzER75K5M/s1600/Emerald1.GIF
Max-1,
I restored your comment at 4:30PM.
Darren’s negative view is misplaced. The Yes vote was both wide and deep; Yes came from city and rural, old and young, male and female, rich and poor, and Yes had support across the political spectrum. The turnout was large and only one district voted No. The debate was civil (no Citizen’s United in Ireland). It’s a proud day for Ireland.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/24/world/europe/ireland-gay-marriage-referendum.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=a-lede-package-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news
Issac … with my Irish family background I’d modify that assertion about Irish Catholics. They were and are notorious for ignoring Rome, and holding their Pastors on a higher pedestal. I wouldn’t call anything the Irish do indicative of what Catholics the world over agree to on the subject. They have self-defined now as in the past. Not saying that is bad, only that the Irish are unique among Catholics.
“Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything.”
― Joseph Stalin
Isn’t there a super majority or 2/3 vote requirement for amendments, even in Ireland?
No vote should be taken through coercion or under duress. No vote should be taken or considered valid until the media stops bombarding their audiences and the public with constant indoctrination comprised of fabrications about the homosexual population percentage, the hypothetical “devastating” impact on all homosexuals and the impossible normalization of perversion – compelling audiences to doubt their natural negative reaction to homosexuality and to transform the unnatural into the natural.
How valid were elections after Hitler’s propaganda campaigns?
Apparently, the world is morphing into “mediaocracies.” The mediaocracy tells voters how to vote then holds the election. The “dictatorship of the media” tells the masses of low-information voters how to vote, reinforces those positions with relentless “celebrity” testimonials then holds the elections.
The paradigm of the American Founders, the representative form of government, the restricted-vote republic, was adopted by China. Do the media in China relentlessly indoctrinate the population on the benefits of homosexuality then hold public elections? Who counts the votes in China, Joseph Stalin? Is there homosexual suffrage in China, the “apple of the American Founders’ eye?”
Collectivists control all three branches of government in the American one-party state. The Supreme Court no longer assure that actions comport with law. The Preamble, Constitution and Bill of Rights have been nullified, voided and vacated. A “citizen” is transformed into a “natural born citizen” by fiat. Thought is directed and controlled by the party Apparatchiks. The Proletariat dictates.
The inmates have taken over the asylum.
If a super majority was required, they wouldn’t be celebrating a victory. If anything it was an unfair contest, since the heterosexual majority of voters were getting to decide rights for a minority group.
There was once a time that no Catholic was as Catholic as an Irish Catholic, not even an Italian Catholic. What makes this interesting is that it will be either a factor expressing honesty that changes the Catholic Church or a sign that a new generation that grew up in the nonsense of the crucible has decided that they would rather do without the stuff.
The Jets were all gay. Nobody straight dances like that. And yet they were doing machismo. We could all do with some sensitivity enhancement. Even dogs.
When you are bent, you are bent,
You are bent all the way.
From your first tryst in high school
to you’re last dying day.
That doesn’t fit the rhythm of the song from West Side Story! And it’s “your” in the last line, not “you’re”.
DDS. Duggar Derangement Syndrome. Why are haters so obsessed w/ some Reality TV people. Read books, or at least watch some good TV. There is some great shows on cable and premium. Reality TV is toxic trash and far from “real.” I do chuckle @ how it has put so many union writers on the dole. Reality TV came into existence when union fat cat leaders conned their members into striking. Networks had to come up w/ programming and voila, Reality TV was born, Survivors being the first big one. Obviously many folks here sit in front of the TV watching this trash. It is edifying to me and explains a lot.
Intellectually honest post. I would love to have a crystal ball and see how this anti-religion juggernaut looks 50 years from now. I’ll be gone, and I’m quite certain most every commenter here will be as well. Our demographic is older and white. Anyone who reads history instead of watching Reality TV knows issues swing like a pendulum. There has been a pretty dramatic anti-religion swing the past several decades in the Western world. It will swing back, that is certain. At it’s core, this is not “pro” anything. It is anti-religion. Being a member of no church, and not abiding churches specifically or generically, I do not sweat the ramifications it has on their bureaucracy. I do sweat the ramifications it has on morality.
At least they do not have a judge in a Peonage state who violated the US Supreme Court passing of same sex marriage. Judge Roy Moore (AL) is a single minded Judicial and Religious Leader. But then again everyone does not know if he is like Josh Duggar (AR) in his faults, blaming others for his own acts.
Or like the Missouri Baptist preacher who’s violence made his name and even protested the removal of Judge Roy Moore the first time.
I’m pleasantly surprised at this. I figured that when these conservative Irish men and women actually got to the voting booth, they’d have a hard time pushing the button to say yes to gay marriage. Glad I was wrong.
Now if only constitutional amendments worked the same way in the US, we could rid ourselves of big money in politics next year.