There is a chilling case out of Port St. Lucie, Florida where a couple allegedly kept a 13-year-old girl as a sex slave while home schooling her in an isolated existence. In a Christian counterpart to ISIS (which has a widespread sex slave system of captive girls), the couple reportedly taught the girl passages of the Bible that they say justified such sexual domination and abuse. Rob Johnson, 44, and his wife, Marie Johnson, 43, have been released on bail (of $60,000 each) pending trial on felony sexual assault charges.
The girl was taken into the home after the death of her mother but was allegedly told immediately that she would have to have sex with both adults and was forced to call the husband “master.” She was beaten for disobeying.
The girl finally was able to leave the home when her grandmother sent her a plane ticket.
The Johnsons have two sons under 10 years old and two adult-age sons.
I am surprised to see only two felony charges for sexual assault and not charges linked to the alleged imprisonment of the girl against her will. The news stories indicate that the girl was kept from the outside world but there is indication of charges related to that aspect of the alleged crime.
It is not clear what passages are cited but the Bible does discuss slavery and the right to beat and have sex with slaves. For example, Exodus 21:26-27 states “And if a man smite the eye of his servant, or the eye of his maid, that it perish; he shall let him go free for his eye’s sake. And if he smite out his manservant’s tooth, or his maidservant’s tooth; he shall let him go free for his tooth’s sake.”
The most famous examples involved wives who could not have children:
Genesis 16:1-2: “Now Sarai Abram’s wife bare him no children: and she had an handmaid, an Egyptian, whose name was Hagar. And Sarai said unto Abram, Behold now, the LORD hath restrained me from bearing: I pray thee, go in unto my maid; it may be that I may obtain children by her. And Abram hearkened to the voice of Sarai.”
Genesis 30:3-4: “And she said, Behold my maid Bilhah, go in unto her; and she shall bear upon my knees, that I may also have children by her. And she gave him Bilhah her handmaid to wife: and Jacob went in unto her.”
Genesis 30:9-10: “When Leah saw that she had left bearing, she took Zilpah her maid, and gave her Jacob to wife. And Zilpah Leah’s maid bare Jacob a son.”
Indeed, it appeared only if the slave or servant was betrothed to another that a master had to make a sacrifice for raping her:
Leviticus 19:20-22: “And whosoever lieth carnally with a woman, that is a bondmaid, betrothed to an husband, and not at all redeemed, nor freedom given her; she shall be scourged; they shall not be put to death, because she was not free. And he shall bring his trespass offering unto the LORD, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, even a ram for a trespass offering. And the priest shall make an atonement for him with the ram of the trespass offering before the LORD for his sin which he hath done: and the sin which he hath done shall be forgiven him.”
Of course, none of this is admissible as a religious defense in a criminal trial. It could still be entered as evidence of the conditions and underlying facts of the crime. However, if admitted, I would expect an instruction from the court on such claims not being viable defenses to a crime like rape.
Paul, Presbyterians are very liberal, but they are indeed Christian. The church is a great fit for me, I’m so glad I found it. Since you are a self professed agnostic Paul, you maybe could work on your own soul.
“The church is a great fit for me” The size of the seats is not relevant. Based on your behavior here, I would never guess you attended church.
Should be Berit Kjos.
http://www.christianmediaresearch.com/cuttingedge.html
“The Cutting Edge is another Rapture Cult website that is making substantial inroads into Remnant circles. In what could be dubbed the Second Wave, this site represents a rather dangerous form of Rapturism in that such “ministries” have adapted themselves so that they appear more like the true Remnant ministries that have had some success in the last few years in drawing people out of the Whore of Babylon.
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Cutting_Edge_Ministries
Cutting Edge Ministries, LMAO, oh my gosh.
Inga – that you call yourself a Christian made me spit up my coffee. You owe me a new keyboard.
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Berit_Kjos
Heritage Kjos, author of the article Lisa posted. Good grief is all I’m going to say about this loon.
And Lisa,
This blog post by Professor Turley is about fundamentalist homeschooling family, who used Bible scripture to rationalize their sexual abuse of the daughter, or did that escape you?
Lisa, I’m a Christian, a Presbyterian. I focus on fundamentalists, that should be obvious.
Inga – you can claim what you want but you are obsessed with fundamentalist and Christians.
issac wrote: “What is indicative of your lack of position is that instead of addressing this moment in time in the US, you refer to moments in time hundreds of years ago.”
David replied:
“My position is that we should learn from history. Many of the ideas articulated by our founding fathers are universal for all time. Their ideas include freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and the right to bear arms. These concepts are universal for all time and are not ever to be rescinded by any government. Government must apply strict scrutiny to any laws that encroach upon these rights.”
‘Their ideas’ included the protection of property rights regarding slaves, that women could not vote, that those who did not own property could not vote, that the indigenous were less than human, etc., etc.,….. The times were different and we have learned from history. There are ideas and concept worth keeping: freedom of speech, freedom of and from religion, etc but the right to bear arms addressed a specific condition which is in no way similar to or enduring today. Those that demand the right to bear arms in order to protect themselves against invasion from other countries or their own governments are simply a few bricks short of a load.
David wrote: “If your perspective is that the 2nd Amendment needs to be repealed or interpreted loosely enough to disarm the general public, that would be uncivilized, a move backward rather than forward.”
I have never advocated repealing the 2nd amendment. The fact of the matter is that it has been interpreted not only loosely but inaccurately. ‘A well regulated militia’, is never included in the NRA’s rants nor the rants of gun advocates who recoil at any regulation whatsoever. Regulation is the issue, not repeal. Your jumping to the extreme to address my proposals to guarantee eliminating access to firearms by criminals, the mentally unstable, or anyone not well educated-at least as well educated as is required to operate a motor vehicle, only weakens whatever it is you are saying.
There are many stores in the US where if a 3 day check is not done in 3 days, it is waved and the buyer in question can obtain a fire arm. Fire arms can be purchased easily without going through the system.
Instead of ranting and railing, pulling in natural laws, universal laws, and any other laws that you seem to define, why not address the system as it is and comment on the loopholes and excesses. If a responsible person of the proper age, who is mentally competent, and has no criminal record wishes to own a weapon then if that person will submit to an education focused on the proper care and use of that fire arm then fine.
Some of these mass killings have been done by those who slipped through the cracks that are already there. What is at issue here is not the elimination of the right to bear arms but the proper manner in which to do so. That is of any day and age. If a man decides that this or that law is ‘natural’ then it is a man made law. It can be addressed.
issac wrote: “‘Their ideas’ included the protection of property rights regarding slaves…”
To my knowledge, none of the founding fathers argued the right to own slaves as property was a natural or inalienable right. You are just clouding the issue by bringing this up.
issac wrote: “… that women could not vote, that those who did not own property could not vote…”
The Constitution never prohibited women from voting, nor did it prohibit non-property owners from voting. The Constitution left it to the States to determine who would be eligible to vote. There was much debate about universal and equal suffrage, and they never agreed that voting was some kind of right for everyone.
The fact that our country has moved to accept universal and equal suffrage is a move backward not forward. It provides for fools, cheaters, and takers to have as much influence in government policy as the wise, faithful, and successful producers in society.
issac wrote: “… that the indigenous were less than human.”
No, you are the one who uses the term ‘less than human.’ They did not. They recognized the savagery of the indigenous, that in war, they brutally and mercilessly killed women and children indiscriminately, which was considered uncivilized warfare by our founders.
issac wrote: “The times were different and we have learned from history.”
Apparently not everyone has learned from our history.
issac wrote: “‘A well regulated militia’, is never included in the NRA’s rants nor the rants of gun advocates who recoil at any regulation whatsoever.”
You are giving false information yet again. Here is an article from the NRA that addresses the “well regulated militia” aspect of the 2nd Amendment: https://www.nraila.org/articles/20010611/nra-and-the-second-amendment-1
Our founding fathers warned against the danger to liberty that standing armies posed. They instead wanted the people to be armed.
issac wrote: “Your jumping to the extreme to address my proposals to guarantee eliminating access to firearms by criminals, the mentally unstable, or anyone not well educated-at least as well educated as is required to operate a motor vehicle, only weakens whatever it is you are saying.”
If your only point is showing support for regulations for responsible gun ownership, then you are on the same side as the NRA. What I heard was that the Second Amendment was archaic and not suitable for the times we live in. I thought you advocated disarming all the people, like England has done. I apologize if I misunderstood you.
issac wrote: “If a responsible person of the proper age, who is mentally competent, and has no criminal record wishes to own a weapon then if that person will submit to an education focused on the proper care and use of that fire arm then fine.”
I agree with you about education. Our public school systems need to bring back a curriculum on gun safety. Middle school and high school should have the students bring their guns to school and be educated about them in school. Target practice should be included.
issac wrote: “Some of these mass killings have been done by those who slipped through the cracks that are already there.”
Most of the mass killings happen in gun free zones by people on medication. We need to emphasize the duty of citizens to protect one another, especially the women and children. We perhaps need regulations against gun ownership by anyone on certain prescribed medications like the mass murderers of the last few decades.
iAnnie – You just can’t go a day without attacking a Christian or a Conservative can you. How about attacking radical Muslims who behead children, just for being Christians. Your outrage is so damned fake. Why don’t you go after the “real child abusers”, instead of Liberal made up ones or ones you fantasize about. Go fight real child abusers, like the ones who killed these children below, just for being Christians.
http://www.veteransnewsnow.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/syria-christian-massacre-3.png
Title: CHRISTIAN PARENTS BEWARE — YOU COULD LOSE CUSTODY OF YOUR CHILDREN!!
Subtitle: Some Public School officials are using sophisticated “Role Playing” techniques on small children to learn how parents are acting and reacting with their children. If they discover you are parenting your child according to the Bible, you could lose custody of your child.
The New World Order is coming! Are you ready? Once you understand what this New World Order really is, and how it is being gradually implemented, you will be able to see it progressing in your daily news!!
Learn how to protect yourself, your loved ones!
Stand by for insights so startling you will never look at the news the same way again.
YOU ARE NOW ON
THE CUTTING EDGE
NEWS BRIEF: “Using Children To Spy On Families: Changing Values and Monitoring Minds In The Guise of ‘Prevention’,” by Berit Kjos
“Role playing is an excellent tool to highlight the hidden influences… or… the hidden commandments of the family….” Robert Hawley, Value Exploration Through Role Playing, 1975.
“…ten years hence it should be more accurate to term [the teacher] a ‘learning clinician.’ This title is intended to convey the idea that schools are becoming ‘clinics’ whose purpose is to provide individualized psychosocial ‘treatment for the student, thus increasing his values both to himself and to society….” Today’s Education, January 1969.
One of the most common tactics of the propagandist attempting to gradually change society, is that they will redefine the meaning of words and concepts, so that the average citizen will not realize what is happening until the time to change direction is long, long gone. The average person will discover to their horror, that matters have so gradually changed over such a long period of time they did not realize it, until suddenly, they are confronted by the new, unpleasant reality, and are personally devastated by it.
Such a situation is occurring right now in America today, and the target is the Christian parent trying to bring their child up in the “fear and admonition of the Lord”. For years, we have been attempting to warn Christian parents that public school officials are becoming increasingly anti-Christian, and are beginning to plan changes that will ultimately result in the children being taken from the parents. Such school officials are enthusiastically supported by officials from the state government who are also increasingly anti-Christian, and who increasingly believe that just teaching children Christian values constitutes “child abuse”, not to mention corporal punishment, reading the Bible to your children, teaching them to pray, and taking them to church.
Before you think I am exaggerating, I personally faced this type of situation in 1988 with the State of Massachusetts, through whom my wife and I had just adopted two sisters, ages 9 and 10. Through a school official, we were suddenly told we were under investigation for child abuse. When the charges came out, they were exactly as I had outlined in the paragraph above. To squash these charges, I had to appeal to my Congressman! Today, however, I wonder if even that tactic would work. Do not be deceived: current state officials are very anti-Christian, and are actively looking for situations in which they can “intervene” in the home, to remove the children for their “safety”, and their emotional and mental “well-being”. The New World Order Plan envisions the ultimate destruction of the entire family unit, and first on their list of targets is the Christian family.
In the first quote, we see that the term, “Role-playing” is introduced. Few citizens would take offense to role-playing, for it sounds like charades. However, we are about to get an education as to how this seemingly harmless action can, in reality, rip the children right out of your home. As you will see in a few moments, a teacher will use the seemingly innocent technique of “role-playing” or play-acting, to disarm the child’s defenses, so they can probe what parents are doing with their children in the privacy of their home. If any behavior loathed by the current Establishment comes out — like spanking — the school could quickly petition the state court to remove that child from the home. Court judges have been carefully selected according to their New World Order values, and stand as invisible allies of school administrators in this effort. As the quote above, states, “Role playing is an excellent tool to highlight the hidden influences… or… the hidden commandments of the family….”
These school officials today want to find out what “hidden commandments” you are teaching your children, especially the Christian commandments.
Further, this second quote should alarm parents greatly. We want our children to be educated, not indoctrinated. Indoctrination inevitably includes training in values and religious beliefs. We want schools to educate our children and leave the religious training to the parents. On the other hand, New World Order planners have long envisioned our schools to be the training ground to inculcate their Luciferian, anti-Christian values and beliefs to the children — to your children. And, in the intermediate period of transition, public schools are a critically important tool to identify those families with Christian values, and separate the children from that home, so they can be re-trained in the predominate Luciferian values and attitudes of the coming New World Order.
Let us now return to our feature article.
“Cynthia, a concerned mother from the Seattle area, doesn’t want her local public school to monitor her family’s values. Naturally, this letter from her son’s 4th grade teacher troubled her:
Dear Parent or Guardian:
In the next several weeks, your son/daughter will be participating in the 4th grade unit of instruction on:
Personal Safety (child sexual abuse prevention)
Includes T.A.L.K. Theater for 2nd, 4th, and 8th grades.
Please refer to the brochure sent to you in the fall for specific information about the various components of our comprehensive health curriculum. If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact me.
Sincerely,
“No brochure had arrived, so Cynthia asked the teacher for a copy. Since it failed to answer her questions, she called the district Curriculum Director. He explained that a group of trained actors would put on a play “with the kids.” The presentation would show different ways to deal with adults who might make them feel uncomfortable by their touching or talking.
Cynthia asked if she could watch this illuminating drama with her child. He said no; other children might not disclose abuse if parents were present.
” ‘Are you basically looking for kids that have been abused?’ she asked.”
“Again the answer was no, but he admitted that students sometimes disclose personal secrets to an adult after a performance. The actual purpose of the theater, however, was to provide children with skills on how to handle confusing and uncomfortable situations. The facilitators or actors — joined by a professional psychologist — would be trained to look for kids who were ‘plugging their ears’, ‘covering their face’ or showing other signs of discomfort.”
As it turns out, Cynthia was more astute than the school officials have given her credit for, and her questions continued. “Cynthia didn’t ask what the school would do with children who plugged their ears or were suspected to be “at risk.” Later she wondered. Would the psychologist counsel or cross-examine the child? Would Child Protection Services be called? Could the child be removed from the family?”
“Psychological profiling and other intrusive tactics are already devastating families across the country — for many reasons unrelated to sexual abuse. Children have been removed from loving homes because of anonymous calls, subjective speculation, unfounded accusations and irrational hostility against Christian parents whose uncompromising beliefs and values are considered inappropriate preparation for the pluralistic 21st century community. After all, home-taught values could block willingness to compromise and conform.”
Former dictator of the USSR, Nikita Kruschev, once stated that Communism failed to totally teach the values of that system to its youth because of the “grandmother influence”. He explained that, even though the Communist public school system taught the children atheism and the general values and attitudes attendant to that system, during the day, at home each night, grandmother would hold the child on her knee, and systematically re-teach the child Christian values and attitudes. If this technique was so pervasive it attracted the attention of the top political leader of the USSR, you can rest assured that school officials attempting to educate your child according to the prevalent anti-Christian bias prevalent throughout state governments and schools are well aware of the “grandmother factor”.
They are determined to succeed where Kruschev failed, and you are standing in their way. Did you know that the first public figure to advocate a Public School system was Karl Marx, writing in his Communist Manifesto? Communists, and their kissing cousins, the Illuminists of today, consider the Public School system their most important tool by which they can reach all the kids of the population, teaching these kids these Luciferian attitudes and values.
The entire Public School system is your mortal enemy — the mortal enemy of the Christian parent.
Let us go back in recent 20th Century history to see where this current anti-Christian bias originated, and how it has progressed.
“During the last century, progressive leaders have been equating hate with faith — and Christian child raising with emotional abuse. Consider this 1946 statement by Dr. Brock Chisholm, former head of the World Health Organization. :
“We have swallowed all manner of poisonous certainties fed us by our parents…. The results are frustration, inferiority, neurosis and inability to… make the world fit to live in….
“It has long been generally accepted that parents have a perfect right to impose any points of view, any lies or fears, superstitions, prejudices, hates, or faith on their defenseless children…. [People with] guilts, fears, inferiorities, are certain to project their hates on to others…. Such reaction now becomes a dangerous threat to the whole world….” [emphasis added]
Public schools have become therapy centers, immersing children in outrageous sex-education and multicultural experiences, values clarification and other forms of group therapy designed to
desensitize children to contrary values
produce moral confusion or cognitive dissonance
shift loyalty from family to peer group
instill beliefs and behavior fit for the global village.
T.A.L.K. Theater fits right in. ‘It’s psychological examination on the students without parental consent’, says Cynthia. ‘There is no opt-out form and no written permission slip for parents to sign’. That’s because the educational establishment knows that many parents would oppose their inexcusable tactics – if they discovered them. So they hide them from traditional parents while seeking support from more liberal parents, community groups and agencies. ”
You can see just how comprehensive this indoctrination program truly is, and how far-reaching it can be for your child. But, just in case you do not yet understand the true impact, and scope, of this program, we continue on with this feature article:
“… topics include AIDS education, belief and value systems, child abuse and molestation, discrimination, sexual orientation, family lifestyles and relationships, hate speech, violence prevention and other issues critical to social engineering. Each would be discussed through ‘innovative, student-centered teaching methods that foster critical thinking skills and responsible decision making’ such as peer education, question boxes, role playing, improvisational theater…. ”
“Theater and role-playing are powerful tools for social change. The explicit purpose for bringing these processes into schools was exposed by Fannie and George Shaftel in their 1967 manual for change: Role-Playing for Social Values:
‘Once values are out in the open, they can be looked at, considered compared with alternative values. Only then can one criticize, evaluate, deny or confirm and reconstruct one’s value system. Children can be helped to… develop an explicit set of values. In group discussions, in role-playing enactments… they can explore their values and learn the process of criticizing and reconstructing them… under skilled guidance’.”
This “skilled guidance” is skilled all right, but that skill is being used against you and your child. Once they discover that you are following a Biblical regimen for raising your child, you just might lose your child to state officials. This unbelievable scenario is increasingly common these days in American society, because our society has rejected the Christian values upon which this country was founded, and by which its institutions have been guided. Once this rejection reached up into the higher reaches of our society, local and state officials began to be hostile to Christian values. And, Satan is sitting in the heavenlies pulling the strings of these anti-Christian officials. After all, he is reordering the values and attitudes of all of society so that his man, Antichrist, can appear, and be overwhelmingly supported by the masses.
Thus, public schools are now launching an all-out attack on our values, attitudes, and religious beliefs. They will act to pull your children out of your home, if their “skilled” psychologist pulls information from your child as to your Biblical orientation within your home. Do not deceive yourself on this point.
SUMMARY
Now that we know the facts, what can you, and all Christian parents, do about this sad and frightening set of circumstances? We see you taking the following steps:
1. Remove your child from Public Schools. This act is the first and most important you can take. Not only is your child physically, mentally, and spiritually at risk by being in Public Schools. Recent newspaper reports have stated that your child is really at risk of assault, and even murder, by being in a Public School. Further, Public Schools are not teaching academics anymore, so why should you be satisfied with their increasingly low standards? Your child deserves better than this.
2. Place your child with a private Christian school. Today, more and more Christian schools are being established, as Christian leaders in increasing numbers are coming to the understanding that our Christian children are big targets in the Public Schools. In these private, Christian institutions, the parent can still get involved and make a difference in the education of their child.
3. Home School your children. Materials abound that allow a Mom or Dad, or Grandmother, to give their children a far better education than the Public Schools. In fact, home schooled children are even out-performing children educated in private schools! Go on the Internet and you will easily find a very large selection of Christian-based Home School materials.
Or, there are numerous other Home Schooling resources upon which you can draw. Some communities even have Home Schooling groups, of which many of the parents are non-Christian. They have withdrawn their children from the Public School arena simply because of academics and cultural values of which they do not approve.
4. Christian parents need to reorient their values and attitudes, for the sake of their children! Too many Christian parents are too in love with the materialism of our society. Too many Christian parents are chasing the same materialistic goals of non-Christian parents. The children are then forced into the “free” Public School arena, so their parents can take their money and chase their materialistic dreams.
5. Aggressively teach your children Christian doctrine, for we do not know how long we will continue to have custody of them. Do not put off any longer key teachings of doctrine and of salvation. Pray daily for your children, praying a “hedge of protection” [Job 1:10], even a “Wall of Fire” [Zechariah 2:5] around them. Parents must hold their precious children up to the Lord daily in prayer.
6. Teach your children that they are not to divulge anything about what happens inside the home. They are not to assume that an adult is their friend in whom they can confide.
Truly, we Christians are in an undeclared war with the Illuminist values and attitudes that have permeated our entire society, and especially in our Public Schools. You can remain indifferent and inactive no longer. Your family and your children are under severe attack. We will close with a couple of Scriptures we believe are pertinent to our discussion.
“93% of sex offenders describe themselves as “religious” ” I’ll bet 100% of them describe themselves as “human” and they likely all have bi-lateral symmetry and probably looked at a mirror at least once. If 100% of sexual predators looked at a mirror, then looking at a mirror must cause folks to be sexual predators. Don’t confuse correlation with causation.
http://www.salon.com/2015/06/08/a_former_homeschooler_on_the_duggar_familys_horrifying_fundamentalist_education_it’s_literal_rape_culture/
“Nicholas Ducote, a self-identified “homeschool survivor,” was one of those children once. Now 27, Ducote was raised in Louisiana and homeschooled by his mother, a fundamentalist Christian and ATI devotee. As he grew up and began to question the homeschooling movement and religion more generally, Ducote stayed in touch with a number of other ATI alumni whom he met through a homeschool speech and debate program. Together, they gave voice to their shared history of shame, anxiety and confusion perpetuated by their experiences with the program.
“When I was in church, I was the special kid, because I was being homeschooled to be a culture warrior,” Ducote told Salon. “Homeschoolers were like the exemplary, perfect Christian children who exemplified everything that most American Christians think children should do and believe — that they should be fighting for a Christian America. There were so many people who thought that no one else had experienced that.”
In homeschooling particularly, there is this culture of silence. So you had so many people who thought that they were alone; people don’t think that other people experience this crazy world. They think they are the only ones with PTSD. Our community has really high rates of suicidal ideation, of anxiety and depression — basically every flag for mental health. Almost everyone in our community struggles with something pretty big in their life that was a result of homeschooling. Even just putting stories out there has been a huge challenge to the main narrative of homeschooling, which for so long has just been about these perfect kids who are just doing everything right, and fighting for a Christian America. There’s no one there being a watchdog. There is no one holding these organizations to any sort of ethical line or moral standard. They just have unchecked, unlimited power in the homeschool movement to say and do whatever they want. We just wanted to say there’s a lot of alumni out here who have different experiences, and we want to illustrate and illuminate them.”
http://mic.com/articles/119098/inside-the-christian-cult-that-told-the-duggars-to-blame-their-daughters-for-their-abuse
“Former members of the insular religious movement, which promotes procreation by forswearing all forms of birth control and conscripting women into a life of perpetual pregnancy, describe a cult-like movement obsessed with public appearance and deeply at odds with its dogmatic beliefs on sex.
But there was darkness behind the scenes. While the Quiverfull movement the Duggar family proselytized was seen as a harmless quirk by fans of the series, its archaic view of sex and the role of women created an atmosphere where public image was valued above all else — and where victims of sexual abuse are blamed for the crimes committed against them.
“The nature of the patriarchy that distinguishes the Quiverfull mindset from other religious extremists is the teaching that there is a channel of authority, and that it goes straight through the father.”
According to Garrison, blaming the underage victim of sexual abuse, rather than the perpetrator of the abuse, is the “logical conclusion” of the Quiverfull worldviews.
“This is not an uncommon occurrence in Quiverfull families,” Garrison told Mic. “The isolation, keeping children from actual education about sex, all of these things build up a culture in which it’s hard to even say what’s happening. There would be a lot of self-doubt, there would be a lot of self-blame and there would be a lot of victim blaming.””
http://jehoshuathebook.com/1/post/2014/12/sexual-abuse-in-christian-fundamentalist-organizations.html
Sexual abuse in conservative Christian organizations is a real problem. So serious that a group called Grace is doing doing something about it.
http://www.greenvilleonline.com/story/news/local/2014/12/27/sexual-abuse-victims-find-healing-grace-report/20938675/
“GRACE’s two-year investigation found that counseling services were harmful, some students were dissuaded from making police reports, and sermons and classroom lectures made victims feel as if they had brought the abuse on themselves by what they wore or how they acted.
Harris said she was counseled by Berg for six months in 1996 after she started to have flashbacks of childhood sexual abuse. She said she’d go to his office on the second floor of the Administration Building weekly and sit in a wing-back chair. He remained seated behind his desk.
She told him she wanted to go to the police, she said.
“He said the police wouldn’t believe me,” she said.
“I kept being told how unspiritual I was,” she said.”
https://www.dosomething.org/facts/11-facts-about-child-abuse
http://boz.religionnews.com/2014/01/09/startling-statistics/
It is critical to note that this abuse is no less prevalent within the faith community. In fact, there are studies that demonstrate that the faith community is even more vulnerable to abuse than secular environments. The Abel and Harlow study revealed that 93% of sex offenders describe themselves as “religious” and that this category of offender may be the most dangerous. Other studies have found that sexual abusers within faith communities have more victims and younger victims. This disturbing truth is perhaps best illustrated by the words of a convicted child molester who told Dr. Salter,
“I considered church people easy to fool…they have a trust that comes from being Christians. They tend to be better folks all around and seem to want to believe in the good that exists in people.”
Understanding the reality of these disturbing statistics is one of the first steps in transforming our faith communities into places where children are safe and abuse survivors are welcomed, valued, and loved. Perhaps a better understanding of these disturbing statistics would have prompted at least one church member in Memphis to step forward to love and protect a 16-year-old child by reporting her abuser to the police. Now that would have been an answer to prayer.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ks7AwE3Xpfk
Frank is Spinelli and the other one is Paul. Where would society be without strong types like this. And, David, no guns.
issac –
Still part of the British Empire.
In the meantime some fundamentalist home schoolers are being isolated, abused, sold into marriage and raised in a way in which society cannot help these kids until it’s too late.
“In the meantime some fundamentalist home schoolers are being isolated, abused, sold into marriage and raised in a way in which society cannot help these kids until it’s too late.” Fortunately, almost none of them are, while some kids in public school are sexually abused by teachers. Neither Fundamentalism nor homeschooling have any more inherent tendency towards abuse than public schools.
Tell that to Catholic school kids and alter boys. Not fundamentalists, and also not PUBLIC schools.
The highlight of the public schools is the number of women arrested as sexual predators. And not just one boy or girl, several.
Right you are, Paul S. Here’s a list of these female sexual predators:
http://www.wnd.com/2014/08/39783/
And here is a report of 2,500 cases over 5 years that include male perpetrators.
http://www.komonews.com/news/content/10690766.html
“Tell that to Catholic school kids and alter boys. Not fundamentalists, and also not PUBLIC schools.” You’re making my point. Plenty of sexual abuse in non-Fundamental schools, and also plenty of abuse in public schools, without religion being involved. I could easily match you anecdote for anecdote. I’ve even seen a website dedicated to hot public school teacher sexual predators. This thread isn’t a contest. The actual evidence shows that there is no more likelihood of sexual predators in religious schools than in non-religious ones, and posting a bunch of anecdotes won’t change that. If anything, non-religious schools have access to a larger pool of potential victims, and teacher unions tend to protect abusers.
david
There you go again with god and nature. Who interprets this? Moses, Hitler, Pol Pot, etc.
The moment mankind decided it was more important to live as a society than as an individual, the rights and freedoms of the individual have been interpreted, sanctioned, and protected by the society. The society comprised of individuals creates the words, myths, and laws. Of course, in the past when society was still in a state of chaos and forming the onus on individuals to go about armed was there. In my home town of Victoria, BC back in the 60’s someone found a law dating back100 years stating that men of 18yrs and older were required by law to be armed with a gun and/or a sword while in public after sundown. Using your position, and the positions of far too many, we should all be hacking and slashing our way home from the bar every night.
Your argument which relies on distorting the position of responsible gun ownership into the abolishment of gun ownership is the dog and pony show that denigrates this country. You represent this country’s shame in citing rights and texts that originated in a time when it was necessary to go about armed, but ignoring the obvious need to assure that criminals, mentally incompetent, and children do not have access to guns. You ignore society’s responsibility to insure that the right to bear arms is protected with common sense in education, restriction, and controls. There were no automobiles in 1776 however there were horses and wagons. There were rules and regulations concerning the operation of these, just as there is now. The times change and therefore the rules change.
Owning a gun is a right that carries with it a societal responsibility. Completing the control systems will not take away the right to bear arms but it will reduce the carnage. It is not a question of all or nothing but of fine tuning to the moment in time.
What is indicative of your lack of position is that instead of addressing this moment in time in the US, you refer to moments in time hundreds of years ago.
“The moment mankind decided it was more important to live as a society than as an individual, the rights and freedoms of the individual have been interpreted, sanctioned, and protected by the society.” Refused to bake a cake for a gay wedding lately?
issac wrote: “What is indicative of your lack of position is that instead of addressing this moment in time in the US, you refer to moments in time hundreds of years ago.”
My position is that we should learn from history. Many of the ideas articulated by our founding fathers are universal for all time. Their ideas include freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and the right to bear arms. These concepts are universal for all time and are not ever to be rescinded by any government. Government must apply strict scrutiny to any laws that encroach upon these rights.
If your perspective is that the 2nd Amendment needs to be repealed or interpreted loosely enough to disarm the general public, that would be uncivilized, a move backward rather than forward.
David
“It might be prudent to point out that all the passages about the Bible encouraging “sex with slaves” mentioned in the article are not really that at all. These examples were from a time period BEFORE the law of God was given to mankind. The people lived under the Code of Hammurabi. There was a provision in the Code of Hammurabi that forced barren wives to provide wives for their husbands. In each of these situations, the servant was elevated to the status of wife for the purpose of producing children. This was not the Bible endorsing a hedonist philosophy of masters having sex with slaves.”
Kind of like the 2nd amendment vis a vis when it was written, why it was written, the changing times, etc., etc., etc.
The old problem with context, and laws, inalienable rights, etc., etc.
issac: “This sort of activity is a level or type of criminality that seems to be ‘understood’ by our society.” I bring you Whoopi Goldberg on Roman Polanski: “It’s not as if it’s rape-rape.”
david
Inalienable or whatever, the representatives of the people created the 2nd amendment, not your god. This is not something that was handed down from on high. Or, do you still keep slaves?
People decide through the democratic process. The lack of sufficient oversight regarding guns is the result of special interests and the oligarchy that is the American system of government. The lack of the enforcing of existing laws is nothing short of negligence. Both the establishment of responsible laws and the enforcing of those laws is hindered by an extremely powerful minority. I doubt that is what the founding fathers had in mind. It may be what your god had in mind but not the boys in 1776.
Again, the prime example of the vanguard that resists responsible gun ownership is your,
” Every person has the right to secure both himself and his family. As the head of my home, I have not just the right, but the duty and obligation to provide security for everyone in my family. I have a duty to protect my wife and children from the harm that criminals might bring against them. No government has the right to prohibit me from securing firearms that would assist me in fulfilling my duty to my family. Take all the polls you like of a feminized society who forsake their duty and obligations to their family. They are cowards who want the duty they have to be shifted to law enforcement officers so they can blame someone else. You want me to bring a knife when the criminal brings his gun. No thank you. I think your advice is foolish.”
If your above requirements could be met and the carnage reduced and you still bury your head in the sand or wherever, then that is the pure definition of ‘foolish’.
issac,
I am talking about Natural Law. There is no reason to bring religion or sacred writings into this.
From William Blackstone’s law commentaries: “Self defense is justly called the primary law of nature, so it is not, neither can it be in fact, taken away by the laws of society.”
England had a Bill of Rights in 1689 that included the right to have arms in their defence. Beginning in 1900, they began to control guns, first by requiring a permit. By 1997, all handguns and weapons for self defence were banned. The result of all that legislative history was an increase in violent crimes.
“In the two years following the 1997 handgun ban, the use of handguns in crime rose by 40 percent, and the upward trend has continued. From April to November 2001, the number of people robbed at gunpoint in London rose 53 percent. Gun crime is just part of an increasingly lawless environment. From 1991 to 1995, crimes against the person in England’s inner cities increased 91 percent. And in the four years from 1997 to 2001, the rate of violent crime more than doubled. Your chances of being mugged in London are now six times greater than in New York. England’s rates of assault, robbery, and burglary are far higher than America’s, and 53 percent of English burglaries occur while occupants are at home, compared with 13 percent in the U.S., where burglars admit to fearing armed homeowners more than the police. In a United Nations study of crime in 18 developed nations published in July, England and Wales led the Western world’s crime league, with nearly 55 crimes per 100 people.”
http://reason.com/archives/2002/11/01/gun-controls-twisted-outcome/singlepage
davidm, even there, it doesn’t explain why we have a 2nd Amendment. Our right to self-defense includes our right to defend ourselves from our own government. The Founding Fathers were far more concerned with government as a bad actor than with crime or with hunting. Every time I see the United States flag, I am reminded what a good thing it was that George Washington and friends were paranoid gun nuts with military grade weapons when their own government turned against them. That is why we have the 2nd Amendment- if you cannot trust your neighbor with a gun, why would you trust that same neighbor with a gun because he’s got a badge, operating under color of law? The American flag is proof that such thinking is not paranoia, it’s history.