Dov Lior, the chief rabbi of the Israeli settlement of Kiryat Arba, appears to have rushed to show that extremists can be found on every side of a massacre. After the Paris attacks, Lior rushed forward to tell the world that the attacks were actually directed by God as payment for what Europeans “did to our people 70 years ago.” It does not seem to matter to Lior that France was one of the first to fight against Germany and was left in ruins by the Nazis. It does not even matter that this view of God would make the almighty as morally bankrupt and vicious as ISIS. In Lior’s twisted mind, murderous Islamic extremists were used by God to kill innocent people for the treatment of Jews in the 1940s. Makes perfect sense. It is truly impressive that extremists like Lior cannot resist seeing divine purpose in every act, even using ISIS as a vehicle for divine justice for Jews.
Lior made the statement during the funeral of an Israeli father and son gunned down by Palestinian terrorists. He used that moment to comment on the massacre of hundreds of innocent people by reportedly saying that “The wicked ones in blood-soaked Europe deserve it for what they did to our people 70 years ago.” Jewish extremists will have to fight with Islamic extremists in taking credit for the massacre since ISIS claims it was the will of Allah.
It is not clear how, in Lior’s alleged view of divine meaning in massacres, the killing of Jews by Palestinians fits into this “hand of God” theory. I assume that that killing of Jews is not meant as divine punishment for the killing of Jews but Lior will have to address that lingering question with a long list of other questions following his alleged comments.
Lior previously attacked global condemnation by saying that God allowed the killing civilian non-Jews in times of war. Last year, he wrote and published a letter saying that Jewish law permits destroying the entire Gaza Strip to bring peace to the south of the country: ““in the case of Gaza, it would be permitted for the defense minister to even order the destruction of all of Gaza so that the South will no longer suffer and to prevent injury to our people, who have been suffering for so long from the enemies surrounding us.”
He added a view that clearly embraced acts defined as war crimes:
“At a time of war, the nation under attack is allowed to punish the enemy population with measures it finds suitable, such as blocking supplies or electricity, as well as shelling the entire area according to the army minister’s judgment, and not to needlessly endanger soldiers but rather to take crushing deterring steps to exterminate the enemy.”
Indeed, Lior dismissed suggestions of human rights: “Talk of humanitarianism and consideration are nothing when weighed against saving our brothers in the South and across the country and the restoration of quiet to our land.”
Kiryat Arba is cited by various international groups as an illegal settlement under international law. While the Israeli government maintains that the Fourth Geneva Convention does not apply to Palestinian territories, he international community views the settlement as violating the convention. Putting aside this controversy, the fact that the people of this settlement would maintain such a person as the Chief Rabbi is truly shocking.
Source: Post
While I am in no way condoning or supporting this rabbi’s comments or sentiments, this blog post is way off the mark in portraying the innocence of the French with respect to treatment of the Jews. The eminent historian, George Mosse, the very first research historian in residence selected by the Holocaust Museum, used to say that if in 1900 someone had predicted that within 50 years some country would try to wipe out the Jews, the response from most folks would have been “Oh those naughty French.” Jews who tried to escape Germany in the 1930s were arrested by the French and deported. French police also participated in the roundup of Jews during the war. Antisemitism was rife in Vichy France, See: http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1880118,00.html
This article may be news to Turley, or maybe not. I presume it is news to most readers. In reality, there’s nothing “new” about this.
No one suffers and suffered at the hands of Rabbis as much as the common Judaic. Some Rabbis oppress and run roughshod over Judaics. “Kosher” laws are one example. Rabbis who live without working, their lifestyle supported by common Judaics is another example. One of the best examples is Judaic fathers requesting spiritual intervention for daughters unable to bear children. The Rabbi extorts payment for his spiritual intervention. In extreme cases, the Rabbi declares the daughter will remain barren till payment is made. There are documented cases of some Rabbis collecting over $100k for such spiritual intervention. This form of criminal lifestyle caused many Judaics to become secular and turn away from the Rabbis prior to WW2.
From WW2 to today and beyond, some particularly caustic Rabbis continuously blame Judaics who turned away from the Rabbis for causing Hitler and the alleged “holocaust.” The Rabbis declare that Hitler was _od’s curse on Judaics for their spiritual sin of turning from the religion.
The result of such spiritual extortion is that the fastest growing form of Judaism is the most caustic Zionist branch such as Michael Chertoff’s Chabad Lubavitch. The Rabbis and all their media support mechanisms constantly pressure common Judaics to take either the Rabbi’s side or risk loss of employment, loss of family support, and banishment within their community.
Obviously, anyone with a brain and IQ above their shoe size realizes the Orthodox Judaics who run Israel have the world currently embroiled in WW3. However much the world suffers for the crimes of some Rabbis, no one is more at risk then the common Judaic in Israel.
Planting modern Israel in the middle of the Muslim world was about as dumb an idea as ever in mankind’s history. It’s time to consider moving it somewhere else, where I don’t know. Texas and other SBC/Southern Baptist Conference States are thoroughly enamored with Israel, wrongly equating it with some piece of Biblical OT dirt. Maybe they should consider moving it there.
May God bless and protect the Rabbis in the image posted by “Patriot.”
Religious fundamentalists, of all stripes, and, yes, JT, that includes Catholics, view the world in a very distinct way. All occurrences, whether they be natural disasters–like earthquakes, floods and droughts–or man-made-events–like wars–are explained away as part of God’s greater plan. We, mere mortals, are admonished, by religious fundamentalists, that what occurs in the world around us is often incomprehensible as we cannot fathom the reasoning behind these divinely-inspired events. Even the most evil of occurrences are said to have been allowed by God. ALLOWED does not equate with ORCHESTRATED. Man has free will. Does that mean that we are to sit passively by as evil envelops us? No. The concept of retribution, however, is not a foreign concept to Christianity, Islam or Judaism.
Gosh, and I had already concluded, apparently erroneously, that it was divine retribution for the Jacobin atrocities during the French Revolution.
BREAKING: Putin Reveals 4O Countries That Are Funding ISIS At The G20 Summit
http://www.collective-evolution.com/2015/11/16/breaking-putin-reveals-4o-countries-that-are-funding-isis-at-the-g20-summit
Massive tragedies like this always bring out at least a few people who take finding meaning in grief to a dark place. We also have examples on this thread.
A commenter or two had tried to equate Judaism with extremist Islam because it, too, has parts in the Talmud that do not hold up to modern values, just like the Old Testament. I remarked that anyone who used the Talmud to either justify crimes or perpetrate them would be condemned.
I believe that the global disgust with these statements bears this out. Human nature being what it is, there are misguided people in every religion and ethnic group.
I think it is extremely inappropriate that he would introduce these comments at a funeral for the victims of terrorists. As long as he limits his opinions to speech and not actions, then I support his right to be completely wrong.
This bitterness reminds me of a story my dad would tell us about our time in Europe. How a French lady walked away to go help some customers, and came back visibly shaking. She apologized profusely while she regained her composure. And then she said, “I’m sorry. They’re German. I just can’t get over it. But I try not to teach it to my children.” She knew she would always have a visceral, physical reaction to Germans, and Lord only knew what happened to her during WWII. But she did not want to pass that on to her children. She wanted them to start afresh without her fears. I thought that was a very wise decision for a mother.
What is distressing about this latest slaughter is that terrorism works. It kills people, and it frightens many others. It causes whole nations to shut down, millions of people to stop moving about the country. It creates mistrust. And it sows bitterness and hatred that fuels more wars, which makes the organizers able to sell the “we’re at war against the world” meme to those not thoughtful enough to question why. Anyone from illiterate goat herders to angst ridden college grads can become infamous on a global level overnight. Sure, they usually die doing so, but this apparently appeals to a surprising number of people of low ethics.
I have known many Westernized Muslims who moved here to escape extremism, who wanted their children to grow up unafraid and free. But there is no escaping it. It just spreads everywhere. And how do you knock out extremism when it is the norm, not the exception, in every single Middle Eastern country except for Israel? I’ve said before, that if you throw your arms wide and say, “I’m a gay Jew!” in the ME, you are going to die. What are we going to do now that our patterns of immigration have changed? In the West, there has been a deluge of Middle Eastern immigrants and refugees that have flooded Western Europe and the US. Refugees like the Tsarnayevs. Not all of them are like the ones who came before, the ones who wanted to live the American Dream. They have no papers, no reliable searchable databases for terrorist ties, and they are coming at too high a rate to assimilate. False papers claiming Syrian nationality are the hottest ticket in the ME right now, because it guarantees immigration into the West. How many of them are like the Tsarnayevs? One of the reasons that we have delayed getting fully involved in Syria is that the rebels are not paragons of human rights virtue. There is no black and white between the two sides, only varying degrees of extremism. And they are going all across the West. In those numbers, it is nearly impossible to assimilate them into the host country’s culture. There are already places in France, Belgium, and London where if you say, “I’m a gay Jew!” you are also putting your life in your hands. We have already seen how immigration in numbers too great to absorb has affected host countries like Norway, where they do not lay down their human rights violations when they arrive:
“Something else that Muslim immigration appears to have brought to Norway is what some here call “a rape epidemic.”
Recent police statistics showed that in the capital city of Oslo, 100 percent of assault rapes between strangers were committed by immigrant, non-Western males. And nine out of 10 of their victims were native Norwegian women.
To protect themselves, some blonde Norwegian women have reportedly begun dying their hair black, and many travel only in groups.
Kristin Spitznogle is a therapist who has counseled some of the rape victims.
“These men they do not attack their own,” she noted. “They attack Norwegian women and a liberal culture they will not accept.””
http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2011/August/Culture-Crisis-Norway-Tackles-Muslim-Immigration-/
Finally Confirmed: US Created ISIS Terror Group
“Declassified secret US government document reveals US created ISIS as a tool to overthrow Syria’s President Assad”
http://russia-insider.com/en/secret-pentagon-report-reveals-us-created-isis-tool-overthrow-syrias-president-assad/ri7364
Way to invoke your imaginary deity to support and justify your dilusional religious bigotry rabbi! What evidence do you have to tie what happened last Friday to what happened 70 years ago? This is like playing 7 degrees of Kevin Bacon; in some way you can link anything to anything. This was simply a group of dilusional religious bigots murdering people, nothing more, nothing less. They blew themselves up and into oblivion, not to heaven, not to hell, since those don’t exist either, they are simply gone along with those they murdered.
http://buenavistamall.com/ISIS.jpg
Israel Behind Paris Attacks?
“Nevertheless, Israel was behind Paris terror attacks to achieve multiple-objectives (Including geopolitical interests) of Tel Aviv and Obama Administration against the Islamic World and Russia, without bothering for the fact that further instability in the world will jeopardize the economic interests of the US at cost of the patriot Americans.”
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2015/11/16/is-israel-behind-paris-attacks
We must make the distinction here;
Judaism Rejects Zionism and the state of Israel
Anti-Zionism is not Anti-Semitism. Zionism is not Judaism.
http://buenavistamall.com/jewsrejectzionism3.jpg
You wrote-” It does not even matter that this view of God would make the almighty as morally bankrupt and vicious as ISIS.” What?, throughout the old Bible God wiped out the enemies of Israel, men, women, children, even their sheep and livestock, and even the people of Israel, when they did not do what was right in the eyes of God.
Oy.
Not good for the Jewish people when these idiots make remarks like this to the public at a public and high profile funeral. They hurt the Jewish people far more than they help.
Sent from my T-Mobile 4G Android device
Paul, wouldn’t you like to have a conversation with this guy. The Italians under Mussolini surely sided with the Germans.
I agree with Paul about Vichy France and the French complicity. France was in the war early vs. Hitler, yes. France was out on May 10, 1940 and forged a deal with Hitler whereby Marshal Petain ruled about one third of France in the name of Vichy France for the rest of the war. The Vichy French rounded up gypsies and Jews. When the war was over the U.S. turned a blind eye. We prosecuted Petain but let the rest be. We wanted Charles de Gaulle to keep France right or center right and be against the Soviets. Jeso. This has been discussed on the blog JT. To start the article with Kudos for the Frogs is a bit much.
The U.S. military already knows ‘Israel did 9/11’
The French were complicit in sending Jews to both the concentration camps and to the extermination camps. This occurred in both German occupied France and Vichy France. I do not agree with his solution, but he is correct historically. Antisemitism has arisen again in Europe and has been bad in France.
God allowed Hitler and the Nazis to murder the Jews, the Chosen Ones.
Couldn’t one argue that the Holocaust was Divine Punishment to the Jews from God?
I do not endorse violence but it has been said that when the Americans find out ‘Israel did 9/11’ there could be another Holocaust against the Zionist Jews.
When a victim of world war, France, is attacked my Muslims in the name of their religion, is he saying Allah did it? For the Jews?