Usually moments of silence are solemn and dignified events that can help heal wounds left in the aftermath of tragedies. Two such occasions this week however show how they can leave troubled feelings in their wake. The first blown event was G-20 Moment of Silence for the victims in Paris. The problem is that it turned out to be a G-19 Moment of Silence because President Obama walked in late. While one would hope that this deeply symbolic moment would be sufficiently important to get the President there on time, problems can occur. Yet, this President has been criticized for years for being consistently late to events, which shows a lack of respect as well as organization. This is one of the worst such failures in a long line of delayed arrivals. The second incident was far more disturbing in Turkey.
Before the soccer game between Turkey and Greece, the officials called for a moment of silence for the Paris victims. The response from Turkish fans was to start yelling “Allahu Akbar” in Istanbul and booing the expression of sympathy for the hundreds of dead and wounded victims of the attack by Muslim extremists.
The scene at the Basaksehir Fatih Terim Stadium in Istanbul was deeply disturbing and Turkey manager Fatih Terim was quoted as saying: “Our fans should have behaved during the one minute silence.” That is an understatement.
I understand that, like American football games, fans at soccer games are not necessarily the best behaved crowd. However, this raises more obvious concerns for many who have watched changes in Turkey under the current government. The attacks have been widely condemned by Islamic scholars and groups — making this response even more disconcerting.
It is deeply concerning that, even with a disgusting massacre of innocent people like the one in Paris, many fans would still see their allegiance with the murderers due to religion. It also deepens the concern of the impact of the disastrous tenure of President Recep Tayyip Erdogan who has fueled the rise of Islamic parties in that country. 
We have been following the gradual erosion of Turkey as a symbol of secularism in the Islamic world under Erdogan. Erdogan was elected by Muslim parties and has steadily broken down secular traditions and introduced more and more Islamic influences in government.
I often write about my great love for Turkey and Istanbul, a city that defies description for its beauty and history. I have been fortunate to visit Turkey and I have met many Muslim civil libertarians and secularists who have bravely resisted the encroachment of religion into their government. Erdogan has destroyed the one major Muslim country that showed that it was possible to have separation of mosque and state in a Muslim nation. The result seems to be a rise in extremists like those seen at the game. We have seen the same trend in countries like Pakistan where the government seeks to encourage but control religious parties despite rising extremist elements.
Unfortunately, this moment of silence spoke loudly about the direction of Turkey under Erdogan.
The first step should be to stop thinking of “Muslims” as one unified religious group
@ Ari
No. The first step should be for the “Muslims” to demonstrate that they are not all unified and show us that they are not behind the terrorists. Show us the differences and SHOW us that you are not in agreement.
That is the first step and they need to act.
It is deeply concerning that, even with a disgusting massacre of innocent people like the one in Paris, many fans would still see their allegiance with the murderers due to religion.
Get used to it and accept it. We are at war with Islam. Not just a few radicals who do the heavy lifting of killing, bombing and the actual terrorist actions, but with ALL of Islam and the Muslims who stand by and allow this to happen. Just holding up a cardboard sign on Facebook with the hash tag….#not in my name, doesn’t do diddly squat.
Until the peaceful Muslims, in mass, denounce this terrorism, march in protest and have the majority of their religious leaders loudly and vociferously rail against murder and mayhem …..we must assume that they are either FOR it, as demonstrated by the crowd in Turkey who booed…..or that they like the “good” Germans in WWII are going to stand idly by while the world burns.,
For their OWN safety the peaceful Muslims had better start doing something. And soon.
We are AT war and all the wishing, hoping, concerned feelings are not going to make it go away.
No real surprise. A lot of Turkish citizens, including the government, see the Kurds and the Assad regime as a much bigger threat to them than ISIS. In fact, Erdogan created ISIS to fight the Assad government and the Kurds.
Now that ISIS is losing territory to the Kurds in Syria & Iraq – with the help of the West – I am sure there is a considerable amount of frustration among many hardline Turkish citizens and members of the government. Therefore, an attack on the West by ISIS will definitely be cheered by many Turks.
When the dust settles on this mess, Turkey will be the big loser and they know it. The Syrian Kurds will be stronger than ever and will control mostly all of the northern Syrian border that connects to the southern border of Turkey. The same with the Iraqi Kurds, they control the northern border in Iraq that also connects to the southern border of Turkey and they will also be stronger than ever.
As for the Assad regime, yes it will be replaced, but not by some hardline Sunni group supported by Turkey. The new government will probably involve a loose federation of different groups supported by Russia, Iran, and the West. Turkey will have very little, if any, influence in the new government.
TinEar: They will never admit to the Armenian Genocide, because they don’t want to make reparations. And the US and the rest of the Western world will not insist upon it, because it’s been a rare, fairly friendly ally. That connection may fade, however, if the extremists continue to gain a foothold in the country.
Right. Because extremism is the norm, not the exception in the Middle East. As we’ve seen from Patriot’s stream-of-consciousness posts on other threads.
That is why I respect those who immigrate here who do want to leave that hatred behind. It’s so difficult to overcome brainwashing from birth.
Turkey used to be more secular and cosmopolitan. I am saddened to see its downward slide to extremism, just like Egypt.
Nick – I think Kerry redlined in outrageous on that comment.
Aridog is right that there are a lot of differences among communities. Persians think that only back woods savages follow female genital mutilation. Plus a lot of young people in Iran yearn for more freedom, and are pushing the limits of the religious police. And yet, they start every school day in Iran chanting “Death to America! Death to Israel!” Those who come over here young or are born here usually integrate seamlessly, which is why it’s such a betrayal when a subset are radicalized in countries where they have prospered.
Isaac: Sometimes it seems like everyone has tried to wipe out the Kurds at some point in the region. I too hope they get their own country.
I completely agree with bam bam. The Western liberals cannot admit what has become increasingly clear – that these terrorist acts are not limited to Islamic extremists, but rather involve ordinary, non-religious Muslims. The family of the Paris brothers own a bar – obviously they are not particularly religious Muslims, much less fundamentalists. Others of the terrorists had arrest records for drugs, and one is believed to be female. The best thing that could happen to Turkey would be to run the Turks out and give the land to the Armenians.
If anyone tells me that this isn’t a question of Muslims against the rest of us, this clearly answers that question. It is galling that we, the US, would have to jump to the defense of this country if it was attacked because it is a part of NATO. Disgusting.
…to a better understanding of Muslims.
The first step should be to stop thinking of “Muslims” as one unified religious group. They are not, any more than Christians, Jews, Buddhists, or most other religious groups are. Many varieties make it confusing, but the misconception is aided by things like “Arabs” (although “Arabs” are a minority in the Muslim world) who are easy to notice due to appearance, language, and cultural distinctions. The more Westerners try to lump all varieties together the more recruitment tools they provide the radicals. Take Joe Sixpack Muslim and deny him/her a distinct identity and you remove the sense of “safety” in the larger world that they actually prefer….encouraging their “retreat” to ancient texts, myths, and consideration.
I live among mostly Lebanese, Iraqi, and Yemeni Arab Muslims and I assure you that even that small population are very diverse in their relationships with each other and with you and me. Most are delightful people. Squeeze them in to one lump and you get tribal thought and behavior. I don’t know any Syrians and I am rather against sudden resettlement of Syrian “Refugees” in large numbers…so I don’t have an answer of any kind on that topic. I do wonder who is left minding the store in Syria? I do know one thing and that is that Syrians are not the same as the Lebanese, Iraqis, and Yemenis I know. When refugee migration is massive and caused primarily by their own oppressive people, I have to be suspect. At least I try to not lump all Arab Muslims together and claim they are the same. Not much I admit…but it’s a start, similar to the distinctions I had to make long ago half a world away. Everyone is not your enemy, but your enemy can hide among the ambivalent and again that makes it hard to distinguish one from the other.
John Kerry said yesterday there was a “legitimacy” to the Charlie Hebdo attack. This is a glimpse into the mindset of the Obama Administration.
Reblogged this on L'horreur islamique à l'âge des ténèbres ن.
So, just for fun, Bitchindog and Doglover, do you have an appreciation for the behavior of dogs when left on their own in an open field without humans influencing their behavior?
I have realized that I am like a Pyrenees Mountain Dog: satisfied with the status quo unless a threat emerges. In such instance the next step by me is not a choice.
Just having fun with the dog theme. (all people exhibit some dog tendencies if you care to spot them)
NeighborDave is usually one of the smartest persons in the room, and he usually gets there early so he can pick out a strategic seat (or standing spot). Of course, I never thought of that while I was doing it growing up, just realized it upon achieving old age. If you have to express that you are smart, you are not.
Yes, this is a bunny trail, but that is what I see here – mostly.
Too bad about the changes in Turkey. History is such a good teacher, but most humans just don’t learn well.
The West needs to better understand what drives people’s commitment to their religion and everything associated with their religion,even when it slaughters non-believers or puts them in prisons and refugee camps subject to perpetual torture. The study should probably start with Israel, progress to violent Christian Fundamentalism, and then with that background, progress to a better understanding of Muslims.
If the US does not sponsor a new state for the Kurds along the southern border of Turkey, then Russia will. A Kurdistan of northern parts of Syria and Iraq would buffer Turkey from the nut case/thugs, create a homeland for those disenchanted Kurds in Turkey, and provide a jumping off place for the allies of the new country to wax the thugs. Hopefully this will happen under US sponsorship and not Russian. However, it is somewhat inevitable. Otherwise the Kurds that are growing in military strength and governing the areas more and more will be mightily peeved if it doesn’t. There are sides to back and then there are sides to back.
“Erdogn” in Turk language means “without God”. Or without dog. The man needs guidance. NATO needs to kick Turkey out.
Bubba was also notorious for being chronically late. In analyzing people I find people like Bubba and Obama who are chronically late do not fit the main profile of people multitasking and overwhelmed. They are of the group that think themselves better than everyone else. How many times have you heard sycophants of Bubba and Obama say, “They’re the smartest people in the room.” These types people surround themselves w/ sycophants. They make people wait to show ALL they are in control, they are better than you.
There was a moment of silence @ the Packer game Sunday. ONE Cheesehead yelled “Muslims suck.” The Packer QB made note after the game of the wrongness of that ONE fan. Listen to the crowd @ this soccer game. It was Muslims who slaughtered the people in Paris. Our President cannot come to say that. And it was MANY Muslims dishonoring the victims. Those are the FACTS.
U.S. Turkey travel warning 2015
The Department of State warns U.S. citizens traveling to or living in Turkey that the U.S. Consulate in Adana has authorized the
voluntary departure of family members out of an abundance of caution following the commencement of U.S. military operations out of Incirlik Air Base in southern Turkey.
I’m thinking a trip to Patagonia, Argentina is safer. Beautiful area too.
Erdogan fully supports IS (ISIS) 100% through arms, fighters, free border crossings, intelligence, medical treatment It’s time to stop Kowtowing to Erdogan.
There are peaceful Islamist’s, but not when people like Erdogan aiding the wrong factions and making things worse and excusing the bad behavior.
Single extremist, not single extremists.
Once again, the narrative is about “extremists”–why is it that JT can’t seem to fathom that the Muslim “crowd” was booing and screaming, not just a few, lone extremists? Listen to the tape. It’s a roar. An isolated, single extremists? Hardly. Read the tepid response, by the manager, to the crowd’s conduct. This isn’t about extremists–it’s about a toxic ideology which, even in its most sanitized form, directly calls for and directs its adherents to kill infidels. A death cult, where adherents are promised paradise for murdering innocents. Remember, the “extremists” wouldn’t be attending a soccer match–extremists would shun such un-Islamic events. This was a stadium filled with the average Turkish guy–the one on the street, smoking cigarettes, doused in too much cologne and wearing tight American jeans. These are the “moderates” in Turkish society, but the MSM wants us to swallow the lie about those fringe societal members who are the extremists. It’s simply not true. As long as JT and others continue the fantasy narrative about how “extremists” are the problem, the West is signing its own death warrant.