The Massacre and The Aftermath (Updated)

farookThe massacre in San Bernadino, California is as baffling as it is chilling. I am very familiar with the Redlands and San Bernadino areas since I would spend summers in the area growing up and still have relatives there (including one of the officers responding to this shooting). What is so chilling is the lack of any indication of such an act from a couple that seemed to be living the American dream with a good income and new baby . . . and highly supportive colleagues who they proceeded to slaughter.

For me, the three most chilling facts are the following.

2F088BE600000578-3344350-image-a-25_1449184962698First, Syed Farook, 28, had a good work relationship with these people (he made $51,000 a year as an environmental health specialist for the county) and sat at an office party shortly before killing them. It appears that he may have gotten into an argument with with colleague Nicholas Thalasinos (right), a Messianic Jew who was one of the victims. Thalasinos was known to write caustic comments about Islam on the Internet. (His wife says that Thalasinos often wrote about radical Islam but was friendly with Farook).   The argument discussed in the media may have occurred a couple weeks before the party and it is not clear whether the argument had rekindled shortly before the shooting. (One account has Farook telling Thalasinos that he “will never see Israel.”) However, it is clear that these two murderers were planning for terrorism based on the search of their home.  A witness said that when Farook disappeared just before the photo session at the party, someone asked, “Where’s Syed?”

Second, both he and his wife Tashfeen Malik, 27, dropped off their 6-month-old girl with his mother Wednesday morning, claiming he had a doctor’s appointment. So these two were willing to abandon their baby in some pursuit of paradise — attaining glory through the slaughter of innocents.

Third, these were not strangers. Not only had these victims worked at Farook’s side, but they actually threw a baby shower for this couple who later slaughtered 14 people (and wounded 17).

larger-suspectBoth were devout Muslims who appeared at the party (after Farook left) in dark tactical gear and masks with assault rifles and handguns. From their profiles, these two people would be viewed as well adjusted and well grounded in society. Farook actually called himself a “modern Muslim” on social media to distinguish himself from more traditional Muslims. On his dating profile before he met Malik he said that he was “living life to the fullest” and that he wanted a woman who was interested in “snow boarding, to go out and eat with friends, go camping, working on cars with me.” Indeed, Farook is quoted as telling his colleagues that Americans do not understand Islam and then proceeds to confirm that worst stereotype of Islam by critics.

Farook recently went to Saudi Arabia and may have been radicalized while in the Kingdom (a hotbed for extremism). He traveled to Saudi Arabia in 2013 to meet Malik’s family (who are from Pakistan), and then again in July 2014 to marry her. He would later be in contact with known terrorist figures according to police.

There is a growing belief that Farook was radicalized by his wife who reportedly had pledged allegiance to ISIS.

At their home, police say that they found an IED factory and 7,000 rounds of ammunition for assault rifles, 9-mm. handguns and .22-caliber rifles. So whatever the argument may have done, there was clearly planning for an attack if these accounts prove accurate. The argument may have triggered the massacre but the arsenal suggests that a massacre may have been in the works.  What is clear is that both of these individuals were powder kegs before any argument with a co-worker.

The greatest question however remains the road to radicalism. We have seen this pattern before of men visiting Saudi Arabia or Syria and coming back radicalized and unstable.

452 thoughts on “The Massacre and The Aftermath (Updated)”

  1. Tom Nash: Keeping to the point.

    Well I can’t answer your comments with Paul C Schulte on Doc Martin because I dont know anything about him. As you and Paul keep to the point I assume he is relevant to the conversation about the shootings and aftermath as is your opinion on the British and my nasal passages. All the issues I have raised are relevant and explain why America is in this mess. The viewpoints I have expressed are independently corroborated. Your viewpoints are unclear. You haven’t said anything about what should be done. You have been more interested in trying to defeat my case and you have failed miserably.

    So tell me. How should the president proceed and why? And what evidence do you have to support your analysis abd solution? What do you feel about Americans being murdered on the streets. How will you maintain Freedom in this situation in line with the Constitution of the United States? And would you ban immigration of Muslims as Trump suggests? And how would you handle civil unrest?

    That’s something to be getting along with. I will read you reply with interest.

    1. ninian…you should consider teaming up with Doc Martin….you may be sympatico in your treatment of patients, and he may be able to improve your communication and social skills.

  2. As for America headed into decline, I am not sure by what measure we would agree, so your presumptuous statement only reinforces your own national bias. England would be called Wessex and would be ruled by Saxons again if it were not for America.

    As for American victories, the UK has been riding the coattails of the American Empire since Dunkirk. England hasn’t had a real politician since Enoch Powell died. And you sir are no Enoch Powell.

    1. John Smith:

      We would have survived without the US. The Russians had Germany beaten by 1942 after Stalingrad. We might have been conquered by Russia but probably not. As for Enoch Powell he was a disaster as Health Minister and was sacked from Shadow Defence Post and banished to Northern Ireland. The man was a fool and us still considered as such. He was also a racist and made inflammatory speeches in 1968.

      After discussing issues with you I am hardly surprised that you hold him in awe.

      You are right, I am no Enoch Powell.

      I am a person of conscience.

      Je suis San Bernardino.

        1. Paul Schulte: England

          Well we are here. We were never defeated. Hitler gave up. The Russians would have won on their own anyway. The really bad thing is that Poland was sacrificed. And that is why Britain went to war in the first place. I have explained this to you before.

          The American strategy was total war. They fought to win and probably saved mainland Europe from becoming a Communist satellite for 70 yrs. So the US cane up trumps and helped defeat an evil system.

          You need to ask the question did the US fight to win in the same way after 1945? I am saying no. And the US has paid a heavy price. Now the war is being brought onto the streets of the United States by the latest enemy and it is clear that no one knows what to do except bomb Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan when your enemies are already in the US. So without a comprehensive strategy you can see that none if this makes any sense and there isn’t anything you are able to say that changes this situation. Changing the subject won’t make things any different.

          1. Ninian…PLEASE, PLEASE heed your own advice…that “changing the subject won’ t make any difference”.
            If you REALLY believed that, why can’t you stay on topic for once, and give direct responses to direct comments?!!??

  3. Ninian you don’t know squat about my life other than what I said here. You have probably never heard of Blackstone. They don’t teach him in med school.

    Democracy and freedom in the sense of individual rights are often at odds. Sometimes democracies support individual freedom and sometimes they do not. History is replete with examples. Plato himself was a critic of democratic infringements on virtuous persons. Socrates was an example. But what would I know about that eh? I am just a nobody, not a famous surgeon like yourself. “Physician heal thyself”

    1. John Smith:

      Freedom and democracy are at odds in the USA because you have neither.

      If you want me to talk about the Global Financial Crisis caused by American Financial Institutions, I suggest you watch the movie Inside Job. It tells the story better than I can. This should be the subject of another blog so you can’t change the subject.

    2. John Smith…..I would bet that you are relatively new to this site……if you had read the hundreds of previous Ninian postings, you would know that he knows all, sees all, from day one.

  4. I think a guy like Trump has a lot better chance of reversing the Imperial rush towards global war than a feckless self promoter like Hillary Clinton I tell you that.

  5. Americans need to understand that Muslims are plenty divided. And not just into Turks Persians Kurds Pashtuns Arabs Tajiks and whatever else. Shiite and Sunni; and Sunnis who are sane versus the insane Wahabists. And plenty other sorts of divisions but let’s at least understand that much. Let’s get serious about learning something about the Middle east and it will help us with all the Muslims that our government has already let into our country like it or not. Maybe one day if we wise up enough we will have the democratic ability to tell Washtington and the Deep State manipulators exactly how the devil they should be removing their schnozzes from Middle eastern affairs, without emperiling a total collapse of American strategic security at the same time. Really that is the biggest problem we have as Americans, is that our current lordships have chosen such an unwise and nearly irrevocable trajectory that we would have quite as much difficulty moving back as these clowns will moving forward.

  6. I am no fan of diversity nor multiculturalism. In fact as those shibboleths are practiced in the west, they are meaningless. They deny to westerners our own normative values, and they deny to foreigners the normative values that they could exercise at home. You can have two sets of deep cultural and quasi religious norms operating with government approval in the same geographic space. That is a fantasy.

    Multiculturalism reinforces the antidemocratic nature of our sytem, that Ninnian alluded to, It does so purposefully at the behest of capitalists who want to divide the democratic majority and keep it weak so that it does not rise up and curtail their freedom of capital. That is the purpose of flooding America with all this diversity,. That and keeping the cost of labor down too.

    I respect Syrians. I like Syrians, in fact. I approve of President Assad’s friendship with Christians. A better friend to Arab Christians he and his father were than the Turks that is for sure. Being a Christian, I hope the Christian Russians pound the Turks into dust.

    Our other ally Saudi is also hostile to Christians, we know that. I don’t like them either.

    The Israelis are officially a Jewish state, so Christians take a back seat there just as they do in other mostly secular Arab states too. I think if you had to way the fate of Christians in Egypt versus Israel, maybe the Israelis could be considered to be less hostile overall. I suppose in their own little patch of dirt I can accept the Israel in the same sense I would Jorden or Egypt. Unfortunately the Jewish lobby in the USA insists that we keep up with the geopolitical intrigue against Syria and Lebanon and Iran, who ironically, are also antagonists of the Saudis, who do lip service against Israel but actually march lockstep in coordination with them. Just as the Turks do too. We see what crappy allies the US has chosen in its intrigues against Russia in the middle east. What a mess the US has made out of the world. Whatever was screwed up after Sykes PIcot, we have made worse.

    Why, why why. Not just religion, not just nationalism. Lets understand that NATO is divided, and that Europe and America are too. America in a thousand ways, unified mostly only under one flag, the banner of the Almighty Dollar.

  7. John Smith “You can mock the poor white folks of America who cling to their guns and Bibles but I sense the poor white rural Christians know better than the sophisticates how to deal with certain kinds of problems.” This is such a lovely stereotype the Hypno-Toad media loves to parrot. Especially the clinging part. Although I completely agree that “those” people are head and shoulders above “progressives” in so many ways. I’ve lived among the “pacifists” and know them (my very own mother especially) as a not-so-closet fascist. I’d feel much safer in the boonies with some down home folks than my own parents!

  8. Sure, I watch Alex Jones sometimes. Even though Alex interurrupts his guests and is a blow hard. But PIers Morgan bores me. Englishmen in general bore me. I tuned out on that one.

  9. Ninian; you really need to watch the “interview” between Piers Morgan and Alex Jones…. You will absolutely go nuts over it. Let the bullets fly!!!

    1. Piers Morgan: We don’t get his show over here. I would need a link.

      He was an editor of a tabloid newspaper and as we say over here “he bites the heads of whippets”.

      He was the son of an Irish Dentist and changed his name from O’Meara to Morgan. As such it may be said that he didn’t just kiss the Blarney Stone, he swallowed it.

      As editor of a newspaper it is alleged he knew of events in the phone hacking scandal. He has also been involved in spectacular feuds with other celebrities.

      So I would think American television would lap this up. I would think it’s a bit like Oprah on Crack.

      Does America need someone like Piers? Well – if he makes people think for themselves it’s probably a good thing.

      But the most puzzling question is why would an one agree to be interviewed by him in the first place?

      You would need to take your gun for self defence.

  10. Also, it is true that America is a republic not a democracy, and that individual rights has trampled over democratic will thousands of times over. Usually that is in the matter of rich men taking their liberties with money at the expense of the common good, or sexual revolutionaries taking their liberties at the expense of the common good. However, in the case of guns, there is one that has been staunchly supported by the majority all along.

    There is always going to be a dynamic situation between liberties democratically approved at a national level versus democratic laws against those liberties which diverge at the local level. In some cases perhaps the local tastes should prevail. Guns are a special case because they represent the singular token of a free person, of free people. When they go, it will be clear that we are no longer free. We may be under a lot of subtle forms of oppression and control now, but at least we have that. You can mock the poor white folks of America who cling to their guns and Bibles but I sense the poor white rural Christians know better than the sophisticates how to deal with certain kinds of problems. “:A country boy can survive!”

    1. John Smith:

      There is no fundamental freedom for a young kid who has been shot dead. Nor for the shooter either.

      How can you have freedom without democracy? It is impossible. One man’s freedom detracts the freedom of his fellow antithesis. So someone’s freedom has to be denied. It is a physical impossibility to have individual freedom in a society.

      For once in your life think about what you are saying.

  11. John Smith; “I tend to feel that foreigners should not lecture us about rights whatsoever.” Okay I’ll get bashed surely by someone for suggesting this, but did you happen to see the interview/debate/extravaganza between Alex Jones and Piers Morgan? A televisual feast for the senses! Fun for the whole family.

  12. Ninian; “The president confirmed last night on TV that America has beaten her all her enemies. There is no war. ” And we’ve always been at war with Eastasia. If our Fabricator-in-Chief’s lips were move he was lying. I tried to watch the teleprompter reading event but I simply have no patience or stomach for listening to that puppet speak. Tried to fast forward…..Get to the bloody point! No luck. Let me know if he said anything I should know.

  13. The right to bear arms was one of the rights of Englishmen under common law., Blackstone. The second amendment just recognized it and it damn sure was voted. Now sir, if you will not lecture us about rights, we will not lecture you about maxillofacial surgery. In general, I tend to feel that foreigners should not lecture us about rights whatsoever. Just because you don’t have any rights as an Englishmen doesn’t mean we dont either.

    1. John Smith:

      You are welcome to teach me anything. But when you are wrong you will be corrected by any individual, regardless of nationality. NRA rules of engagement do not apply to Internet discussion groups.

      It is this arrogance of absolute certainty that you demonstrate that has led to the ridicule and political infarction of the United States which is rapidly going into decline.

      I have no plans to stay silent especially when infantile and uninformed arguments are posted. For that would be unconstitutional.

      And if you want to discuss Maxillofacial Surgery I am more than happy to hear your views. I’m sure I would learn a great deal.

  14. ninian…you noted that Americans did not vote in the 2nd Amendment. Can you tell us when the British voted in the monarchy, and did the peasants’votes count equally with the votes of the nobility?
    And when did the British vote in the Anglican Church as the state church? If your going to criticise our constitution because it was not voted oinin a direct election, these are fair questions….using your farfetched “standards”
    If you decide to duck these questions, tell us about how you “win in spades” or you can change the subject to your expertise of the Peloponnesian War.
    Just trying to assist your efforts at perpetual evasiveness

    1. Tom Nash:

      Voting on the Monarchy

      Parliament decided in favour of the Restoration of the English monarchy in 1660 when the English, Scottish and Irish monarchies were all restored under Charles II after the Interregnum that followed the Wars of the Three Kingdoms.

  15. The Korean War SAVED S. Korea from the same fate as the people of N. Korea.To claim that N. Korea is America’s creation is nuts.

    1. Tom Nash

      If Macarthur had not invaded the North, China would not have got involved. Ol’ hickory pipe thought he had’em whooped – and look what happened

      This is an example of the arrogance of strategic thinking and the US (and allies) were nearly kicked off the Peninsula. It is yet another example of an inability to make good sound decisions.

      Tom, you need to be less patronising, until you have something to be patronising about. Korea was a Kock-Up. If Macarthur had his way nuclear weapons would have been used. Trueman fortunately had enough sense to dismiss him.

      North and South Korea are still at war. There was never an end to hosilities.

      If this was an American Victory, the word needs to be redefined.

  16. Ninian….have you compiled that list of U/S. Candidates who support repeal of the 2nd Amendment? I’ll keep reminding you….must be a daunting task, given how big the list will be.
    To keep dodging the issue, continue staying off topic. Or you can try putting your money where your mouth is, and show just how popular repeal of any one of the Bill of Rights is.

    1. Tom Nash:
      Voting for the second amendment.

      The amendment grew out of the political tumult surrounding the drafting of the Constitution, which was done in secret by a group of mostly young men, many of whom had served together in the Continental Army.

      “Anti-Federalists” aka Fascits opposed this new Constitution. The foes worried, among other things, that the new government would establish a “standing army” of professional soldiers and would disarm the 13 state militias, made up of part-time citizen-soldiers and revered as bulwarks against what they saw as tyranny. You need to remember that the American Victories were secured by a French and Spanish Alliance and not by a bunch of farmers beating the British Army. It’s a great story but it isn’t true.

      So the concept that citizen malitia can take on Stealth Bombers and Tanks and Drones just illustrates how far removed from reality some Americans are.

      And they really do believe this stuff. With a passion and unreserved commitment to this absolute nonsense. If you want to find radicalisation in the United States you need to go no further than the Tea Party and the NRA.

      On June 8, 1789, James Madison—an ardent Federalist who had won election to Congress only after agreeing to push for changes to the newly ratified Constitution—proposed 17 amendments on topics ranging from the size of congressional districts to legislative pay to the right to religious freedom. One addressed the “well regulated militia” and the right “to keep and bear arms.” We don’t really know what he meant by it. At the time, Americans expected to be able to own guns, a legacy of English common law and rights. But the overwhelming use of the phrase “bear arms” in those days referred to military activities.

      So if your President of the day didn’t know what it meant it is interesting that you clearly do and the Supreme Court certainly does.

      What a mess…. It’s a “let’s think it up as we go along” and stuff democracy Constitution which sooner or later will be cast into the dustbin of history.

      But wait a minute. It’s America’s favourite King, George’s fault as the right to bear Arms originates from English Law.

      Well Tom you have me banged to rights. I put my hands up in dismay and ask you to replace the safety catch. It’s not the NRA at fault – it was the British after all. And it’s completely irrelevant that in 1776 most colonists were of British ancestry. It’s still the fault of the British and especially the Monarchy.

      So why is it that the British managed to disarm the civilian population and the Americans couldn’t disarm their civilians. Well that’s easy. The British were clearly wrong. The NRA will save America.

      President Obama doesn’t have to send any troops to Syria. Why?Because 47% of you will get your gats and fly to Syria at your own expense and take on ISIS. They know what they are doing, they are highly trained and an invincible fighting machine. And if any tanks, artillery or aircraft get in the way – they better watch out. This is clearly what happened in Korea and Vietnam and everything Ninian says is a goddamned lie.

      So Tom. You and your friends will show us what you can do, whilst I will put on the kettle and have a cup of tea.

  17. The U.S. did not have the benefit of Ninian’s advice after 9-11, and before invading Afghanistan. And he prematurely labeled that war as a “failure”. Complete success was never possible without the full cooperation of Pakistan; complete failure, turning the entire country back over to the Taliban, as another playground for alQueda or ISIS, is easy to accomplish.
    Just end that war the way we ” ended the war in Iraq” to see what complete failure looks like. The win/loss column failed to mention American victories in Grenada and Panama, perhaps rivaling the success of the U.K. in the Falklands War.
    Gulf War I was also an unqualified success…..the objective of kicking Iraq out of Kuwait was achieved with minimal U.S. casualties.

    1. Tom Nash of course is right. America has won all these conflicts and has no armed forces fighting abroad at the present time a’s all enemies hace been crushed.

      The president confirmed last night on TV that America has beaten her all her enemies. There is no war. Terrorism has been defeated once and for all. Like it was defeated before.

      The American public are absolutely not deluded. They live in a democracy where the will of the people prevails.

      We will ensure opposition to the ACA and prevent these Commies from taking over. We have the freedom to deny healthcare to millions of Americans and let them die in the gutter. Serves them right for being poor. They shouldn’t be in the country anyway.

      We shall all continue to smoke dope, snort coke and do all the other things, not because they are easy but because they are hard.

      To think we, as a Hamburger Republic, are deluded, is laughable….

      1. Ninian, you should get a patent for ferterlizer. And your insomnia cure😴😴

        1. Tom Nash: Fertiliser

          Verbal diarrhoea happens. Doesn’t mean you have to step in it. But if I were you, I would buy a new pair of shoes.

          1. ninian ……I marvel at your ability to rewrite not only U.S. history, but world history. To call me patronizing is ironic in view of the sheer volume of unsolicited, unworkable, and unenlightened santimonious advice a gasbag like you spews out like a fountain.
            Untangling every demonstrably false statement you have made would be an endless job. I would gladly trade in the civility rule on this site for an accuracy rule….it would greatly condense your revisionist ramblings, and allow me to more concisely and colorfully describe you views and your character.

            1. Tom Nash:

              I called you patronising not patronizing….

              To suggest that anyone could re-write history. Goodness me !

              I have not posted any information not backed by corroborative documents. And as far as advice is concerned, one can never give advice to someone who knows it all already. That’s what an Ivy League education does for you.

              I have made no false statement but have gathered relevant information in the public domain and supported this with references. Just because you don’t like this, doesn’t mean it is untrue. I have given you every opportunity to attack my position and I must confess the experience has been comparable to being savaged by a dead sheep.🐐

              1. Ninian…..try as you may, you can not manually rearrange historical facts by repeatedly punching history in the face.

                1. Tom Nash: If there is any rearranging of history going on you only have to examine the information the American Government has fed to the American Public over the years. Go and see what U.S. military and diplomatic documents were leaked by Chelsea Manning.

              2. ninian….you said that”everything Ninian says is a god damn lie”. I never said EVERYTHING…..don’t be so hard on yourself.

  18. Ninian…..Perhaps you should visit the two Koreas before you talk about the failure in Korea. You could contrast the conditions in both N. Korea and S.Korea…….if prohibited from entering the North, just sneak in to take a peak.
    I’m sure it’s just a minor violation and penalty if you’re caught. Absent U.S. intervention, the entire Korean peninsula would be under the Dear Leader.
    If America only had more “Falkland Island War” types of challenges, we could improve our batting average by jumping into minor league wars.

    1. The tragedy of North Korea is the result of American military brilliance in the 1950s

  19. The President’s Speech from the Oval Office says nothing new. It needs to be remembered that America has been at War since 9/11 and has not decree a victory in any of the theatres of war.

    Einstein said: “insanity is doing the same experiment over and over again and expecting different results”.

    This isn’t really an example of leadership and it will be up to other allies to take the lead.

    This now opens up the door for Russia in particular to show what they can do.

    Americans need to think carefully about this…. and leave the world of Hollywood and enter the world of Reality.

    Is this possible?

    Of course not….

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