The massacre in San Bernadino, California is as baffling as it is chilling. I am very familiar with the Redlands and San Bernadino areas since I would spend summers in the area growing up and still have relatives there (including one of the officers responding to this shooting). What is so chilling is the lack of any indication of such an act from a couple that seemed to be living the American dream with a good income and new baby . . . and highly supportive colleagues who they proceeded to slaughter.
For me, the three most chilling facts are the following.
First, Syed Farook, 28, had a good work relationship with these people (he made $51,000 a year as an environmental health specialist for the county) and sat at an office party shortly before killing them. It appears that he may have gotten into an argument with with colleague Nicholas Thalasinos (right), a Messianic Jew who was one of the victims. Thalasinos was known to write caustic comments about Islam on the Internet. (His wife says that Thalasinos often wrote about radical Islam but was friendly with Farook). The argument discussed in the media may have occurred a couple weeks before the party and it is not clear whether the argument had rekindled shortly before the shooting. (One account has Farook telling Thalasinos that he “will never see Israel.”) However, it is clear that these two murderers were planning for terrorism based on the search of their home. A witness said that when Farook disappeared just before the photo session at the party, someone asked, “Where’s Syed?”
Second, both he and his wife Tashfeen Malik, 27, dropped off their 6-month-old girl with his mother Wednesday morning, claiming he had a doctor’s appointment. So these two were willing to abandon their baby in some pursuit of paradise — attaining glory through the slaughter of innocents.
Third, these were not strangers. Not only had these victims worked at Farook’s side, but they actually threw a baby shower for this couple who later slaughtered 14 people (and wounded 17).
Both were devout Muslims who appeared at the party (after Farook left) in dark tactical gear and masks with assault rifles and handguns. From their profiles, these two people would be viewed as well adjusted and well grounded in society. Farook actually called himself a “modern Muslim” on social media to distinguish himself from more traditional Muslims. On his dating profile before he met Malik he said that he was “living life to the fullest” and that he wanted a woman who was interested in “snow boarding, to go out and eat with friends, go camping, working on cars with me.” Indeed, Farook is quoted as telling his colleagues that Americans do not understand Islam and then proceeds to confirm that worst stereotype of Islam by critics.
Farook recently went to Saudi Arabia and may have been radicalized while in the Kingdom (a hotbed for extremism). He traveled to Saudi Arabia in 2013 to meet Malik’s family (who are from Pakistan), and then again in July 2014 to marry her. He would later be in contact with known terrorist figures according to police.
At their home, police say that they found an IED factory and 7,000 rounds of ammunition for assault rifles, 9-mm. handguns and .22-caliber rifles. So whatever the argument may have done, there was clearly planning for an attack if these accounts prove accurate. The argument may have triggered the massacre but the arsenal suggests that a massacre may have been in the works. What is clear is that both of these individuals were powder kegs before any argument with a co-worker.
The greatest question however remains the road to radicalism. We have seen this pattern before of men visiting Saudi Arabia or Syria and coming back radicalized and unstable.
It doesn’t take reams and reams of evidence, link after link after link to have an epiphany. It doesn’t HAVE to take that much for you to get off your ass and do your own research. Here’s a tiny morsel of truth but it will take both sides of your brain to get it and I’ve noticed that the right side of the brain of the vast majority of people on this site has apparently atrophied. Hence the constant spoon feeding of data, information, facts, logical constructs, statistics, argument, ….propping up which I refuse to do. Watch this video or don’t. Think it’s totals shite or not. I don’t really care.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHLg8LfIkm4
San Bernardino Victims Daughter Exposes Her Mother To Be A FAKE
Hildegarde: I saw the interview. 17 people have been shot dead. That’s what’s important. Im not interested in wrestling commentary.
America needs to focus on what’s happening and has demonstated a serious lack of understanding of the reality of what is going on.
All sorts of people are springing up all over the place with all sorts of theories when the country needs to develop a winning strategy.
And it has demonstrated it really has no clue what to do.
And that is why America will end up losing yet another conflict.
There is no will to win…..
I agree with that there is no point in discussing this subject further. It is not possible to move the discussion along.
@99guspuppet
1, December 9, 2015 at 4:10 pm
“#1 What is meant by saying ‘America will sort this out ‘ …. Does this refer to the USG ? to the US Military ? to US citizens ? to US denizens ? I get tired of trying to suss out the sloppy conflations that are made about groups of people. ( even though I am guilty of this myself).”
I know what you mean. 🙂
When people speak in vague generalizations like that, they’re emoting more than they’re thinking.
I’ve found that trying to engage people who consistently do that, especially after it’s called to their attention, isn’t really worth the time and energy expenditure required, because they’re in a mental feedback loop of abstractions bearing only the sketchiest of relations to concrete realities.
#1 What is meant by saying “America will sort this out ” …. Does this refer to the USG ? to the US Military ? to US citizens ? to US denizens ? I get tired of trying to suss out the sloppy conflations that are made about groups of people. ( even though I am guilty of this myself )
#2 Democracy is the best form of government …… except it is not…. Democracy is simply the best system that people wedded to worshipping nationalism, statism and collectivism can come up with.
#3 Sloppy definitions of concepts allow one to argue almost anything is true. What really matters is what a smart ape’s axioms are. Axioms are not debatable or provable…. they just are. Axioms are what define each person.
#4 I find ( at times ) wonks to be incredibly tedious. Just like experts with the skill to count how many angels dance on the head of a pin.
99guspuppet
99guspuppet – half the number of angels can dance on the head of a pin as can stand on it.
To Paul C. Shulte Thank you For a long time I have secretly wanted that verified …. do you know the name of the dance ?
99guspuppet
99guspuppet – if the angels are jitterbugging than it is less than 1/4. If they are line dancing about 3/4s. They are very versatile dancers, so it really depends. You should see them do Swan Lake.
Ninian said: “Do you really see America sorting this out? Because I don’t.
I predict there will be a long drawn out conflict. America will withdraw one day leaving the locals to sort it out.
And nothing will be achieved.”
It seems we have a point of agreement now. My only exception will be, that many innocent people will die, the rich will get richer and the poor poorer. I don’t need a crystal ball to reckon that outcome.
@Hildegard
1, December 9, 2015 at 12:25 am
“Ken Rogers; ‘Can you point to specific things he’s done or not done, such that you can legitimately attribute to him the increase?’
“Hoaxes and false flags, Ken. And more hoaxes and false flags..now I’ve got to take a break from this site. There are way too many here who are willfully or woefully ignorant as to the real agenda BEHIND the hoaxes and false flags and if you’re just lapping up the lies and deception (but I repeat myself) on MSM you’re never going to get it until it’s too late. People don’t need more stats and definitions, They just need to wake the hell up.”
Your most productive contribution, by far, to the gun control/public safety debate here was your providing the link to the study authored by Dr. Gary Mauser (http://www.gunsandcrime.org/faildxprmt.pdf), “The Failed Experiment: Gun Control and Public Safety in Canada, Australia, England, and Wales”, which looks at the statistical evidence regarding violent crime in those countries and in the US, and which finds sweeping gun control legislation and enforcement highly counter-productive to the enhancement of public safety.
Many of your other posts, however, prompt me to ask if you really think you’re going to “wake people up” by merely shouting accusations of hoaxes and false flag operations without substantiating those accusations with concrete evidence of your own or of others who have closely studied the incidents/issues in question?
I suggest that you consider the fact that making unsubstantiated broad-stroke accusations actually plays into the hands of those who airily dismiss legitimate, substantiated allegations as wild-eyed “conspiracy theory.”
The machinations of the agents of the Deep State* are serious business, and we do our fellow citizens a grave disservice by enabling their agents and supporters to dismiss real, massive evidence of those machinations by conflating that evidence with unsubstantiated accusations.
*For only two examples of voluminous scholarly documentation of some of those machinations, see The American Deep State: Wall Street, Big Oil, and the Attack on U.S. Democracy by Canadian diplomat and researcher Dr. Peter Dale Scott and 9/11 Ten Years Later: When State Crimes Against Democracy Succeed by Dr. David Ray Grifffin.
Hildegarde Good point about allies.
By the way , are Saudi Arabia , Turkey and Israel actually allies of the American people ? I think … not too much. Of the USG ? Maybe.
99guspuppet
England was an ally of the US, but we really could not trust either Churchill or Montgomery. And let’s not even start on Stalin,
ISIS Funding CNN Report
http://money.cnn.com/2015/12/06/news/isis-funding/
So all is not what it seems….?
ISIS Funding
This is what Putin is alleging
http://thefreethoughtproject.com/putin-shares-intel-g20-exposing-isis-financed-40-countries/
Ken Rogers; “Can you point to specific things he’s done or not done, such that you can legitimately attribute to him the increase?”
Hoaxes and false flags, Ken. And more hoaxes and false flags..now I’ve got to take a break from this site. There are way too many here who are willfully or woefully ignorant as to the real agenda BEHIND the hoaxes and false flags and if you’re just lapping up the lies and deception (but I repeat myself) on MSM you’re never going to get it until it’s too late. People don’t need more stats and definitions, They just need to wake the hell up.
John Smith…..Based on what I’m seeing, we have 2 very reliable allies in the Middle East. El Sisi of Egypt and King Abdullah of Jordon have both taken a firm stand against ISIS. The Kurds have fought well against ISIS, but the PKK wing of the Kurdish population is problematic in that they have more expansive designs on territories of other nations, and are themselves considered a terrorist group by many.
The Russians may get serious about attacking ISIS after the downing of the airliner in the Sinai. Their original series of airstrikes seemed to concentrate on the non-ISIS opponents of Syria’s Assad. It’s hard gauge Putin’s real intentions and objectives, but the loss of c.240 Russians on the jet may change his focus. he may be getting serious about go in after ISIS.
Every other nation in that region- Saudi Arabia, Turkey, the UAE, and Pakistan (farther east) ared “semi-allies at best. The double dealing of these nations is well known.Saudi Arabia and the UAE, for example, seem to desire a truce with ISIS, probably Al Queda as well, as long as those groups don’t actively try to bring down the regimes in those countries.
Saudi Arabia, for example, was one of only two nations that recognized the Taliban as the legimate government of Afghanistan. And at a minimum, the allowed assistance to flow to the Taliban’s HouseGuests, BinLaden and Al Queda.
It seems unclear is if the Saudi government ITSELF funded Al Queda, but at a minimum they turned a blind eye to the Saudi money and the Saudi men flooding onto Al Queda.
I think their message to Al Queda was ” do what you want, just don’t do it here” UAE and Qatar seem to have the same way of dealing, or double dealing, with terrorist groups.
The Saudi’s strikes against ISIS seem to only be in retaliation, on occasions when ISIS attacks Saudi Arabia itself.
This is why I regard most of these counties as “semi-allies”,at best. Egypt, Jordon, and the Kurds are stongly committed to fighting ISIS, but they are limited in their abilities. King Abdullah especially has a strong commitment, but limited resources and a ton of other problems. Abdullah’s father, King Hussein, was also a force for moderation in the ME.
So there is a fractured, largely disjointed campaign against ISIS at this point. Barring Putin, and possibly Obama, showing some leadership and putting together a cohesive alliance, I can’t see the eradication of ISIS anytime soon.
Tom Nash – PKK is going to be a problem until the Kurds get their own homeland. Right now they are spread through three countries and none wants to give up the land to give the Kurds a homeland.
Ninian; I just spent a bunch of my precious time composing a lengthy reply to one of your lengthy replies and think the comment disappeared into thin air. Anyway, I sincerely hope so because arguing with you is a complete waste of time. No offense! Anyone who still thinks that Sandy Hook was as the main stream media portrays has way too much catching up to do and it’s apparent you’re not going to do it, so why bother? The problem is, you fall for the official narrative every single time.
So OF COURSE you’re going to think taking everyone’s guns is the answer because you don’t even realize who is REALLY pulling the trigger and if you don’t know what I mean by that…good luck! You’re a pawn just like just about everyone else who comes to this blog, whether they agree with you or not. You’ll never realize it until it’s too late.
Hildegarde: Well maybe I don’t pick the best examples – but what is really interesting is that there is little or no remorse or shock displayed about these mass murder events by the pro gun lobby on the postings here. In fact not one of the bloggers has even mentioned ANYTHING about the victims and their families. And are critical of individuals who do make postings expressing shock and disgust.
I find the (total) lack of empathy about a lot of dead kids very interesting indeed.
This is not normal behaviour and it would appear these are the people with the guns.
As far as guns being difficult to get in California it does not appear to have been a problem for these 2 dead killers whose home was full of weapons.
It looks like they were planning other stuff? Or there are accomplices?
ninian – we were blogging within the confines of the thread. You are outside it.
Paul C.Schulte……My understanding is that they have a defacto homeland in N. Iraq, and have had one since Saddam was restricted in suppressing them.
Like you said, it will be a mess until there is some general international agreement on an official Kurdish state. I think that will be a long time coming.
@Hildegard
1, December 8, 2015 at 10:57 pm
Ken Rogers; When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.
“ ‘What is relevant is the fact that none of the unarmed people endangered (and/or killed) by the shooters in San Bernadino had the means to defend themselves effectively.’ ”
“All I’m saying is it’s pretty damn hard to get a gun in California. Of the 162 mass murders under Resident Obama how many took place in states with strict gun control?”
KR: I don’t know. Please define “strict gun control” and indicate those states with it, as well as the number of mass murders in them compared with states without it.
“Let’s compare mass murders under the last 5 presidents:
“Reagan 11, Bush Sr. 12, Clinton 23, Bush Jr. 20, Obama 162 in 7 years. Any alarm bells going off?”
Correlation is not causation. Assuming your figures are accurate, there could be any number of factors contributing to the large increase during Obomba’s Administration.
Can you point to specific things he’s done or not done, such that you can legitimately attribute to him the increase?
Ken Rogers; When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.
“What is relevant is the fact that none of the unarmed people endangered (and/or killed) by the shooters in San Bernadino had the means to defend themselves effectively.”
All I’m saying is it’s pretty damn hard to get a gun in California. Of the 162 mass murders under Resident Obama how many took place in states with strict gun control?
Let’s compare mass murders under the last 5 presidents:
Reagan 11, Bush Sr. 12, Clinton 23, Bush Jr. 20, Obama 162 in 7 years. Any alarm bells going off?
John Smith; You ask why Saudi Arabia, Turkey, and Israel are our allies? I found some synonyms to the word ally:
abettor ; to help, encourage, or support someone in a criminal act. to assist or support in the achievement of a purpose.
confederate; united in a league
In other words, birds of a feather, members of the same team. There is no difference between the objectives of THE LEADERS OF Saudi Ariabia, Turkey, and Israel and the U.S. What makes you think the objectives of the U.S. are different? OUR objectives may be different but if you haven’t noticed U.S.citizens have almost NO control over their own destiny. Hence the gun “clinging”.