The Massacre and The Aftermath (Updated)

farookThe massacre in San Bernadino, California is as baffling as it is chilling. I am very familiar with the Redlands and San Bernadino areas since I would spend summers in the area growing up and still have relatives there (including one of the officers responding to this shooting). What is so chilling is the lack of any indication of such an act from a couple that seemed to be living the American dream with a good income and new baby . . . and highly supportive colleagues who they proceeded to slaughter.

For me, the three most chilling facts are the following.

2F088BE600000578-3344350-image-a-25_1449184962698First, Syed Farook, 28, had a good work relationship with these people (he made $51,000 a year as an environmental health specialist for the county) and sat at an office party shortly before killing them. It appears that he may have gotten into an argument with with colleague Nicholas Thalasinos (right), a Messianic Jew who was one of the victims. Thalasinos was known to write caustic comments about Islam on the Internet. (His wife says that Thalasinos often wrote about radical Islam but was friendly with Farook).   The argument discussed in the media may have occurred a couple weeks before the party and it is not clear whether the argument had rekindled shortly before the shooting. (One account has Farook telling Thalasinos that he “will never see Israel.”) However, it is clear that these two murderers were planning for terrorism based on the search of their home.  A witness said that when Farook disappeared just before the photo session at the party, someone asked, “Where’s Syed?”

Second, both he and his wife Tashfeen Malik, 27, dropped off their 6-month-old girl with his mother Wednesday morning, claiming he had a doctor’s appointment. So these two were willing to abandon their baby in some pursuit of paradise — attaining glory through the slaughter of innocents.

Third, these were not strangers. Not only had these victims worked at Farook’s side, but they actually threw a baby shower for this couple who later slaughtered 14 people (and wounded 17).

larger-suspectBoth were devout Muslims who appeared at the party (after Farook left) in dark tactical gear and masks with assault rifles and handguns. From their profiles, these two people would be viewed as well adjusted and well grounded in society. Farook actually called himself a “modern Muslim” on social media to distinguish himself from more traditional Muslims. On his dating profile before he met Malik he said that he was “living life to the fullest” and that he wanted a woman who was interested in “snow boarding, to go out and eat with friends, go camping, working on cars with me.” Indeed, Farook is quoted as telling his colleagues that Americans do not understand Islam and then proceeds to confirm that worst stereotype of Islam by critics.

Farook recently went to Saudi Arabia and may have been radicalized while in the Kingdom (a hotbed for extremism). He traveled to Saudi Arabia in 2013 to meet Malik’s family (who are from Pakistan), and then again in July 2014 to marry her. He would later be in contact with known terrorist figures according to police.

There is a growing belief that Farook was radicalized by his wife who reportedly had pledged allegiance to ISIS.

At their home, police say that they found an IED factory and 7,000 rounds of ammunition for assault rifles, 9-mm. handguns and .22-caliber rifles. So whatever the argument may have done, there was clearly planning for an attack if these accounts prove accurate. The argument may have triggered the massacre but the arsenal suggests that a massacre may have been in the works.  What is clear is that both of these individuals were powder kegs before any argument with a co-worker.

The greatest question however remains the road to radicalism. We have seen this pattern before of men visiting Saudi Arabia or Syria and coming back radicalized and unstable.

452 thoughts on “The Massacre and The Aftermath (Updated)”

  1. @ Ninan

    Here is the problem with posting something and NOT reading all of your source.

    The headline is misleading and the article goes on the explain. The statistic is for ALL gun related deaths. Not homicides or “killings on our streets”

    Quote from the article These figures refer to all gunfire-related deaths, not just homicides. In fact, homicides represent a minority of gun deaths, with suicides comprising the biggest share. In 2013, according to CDC data, 63 percent of gun-related deaths were from suicides, 33 percent were from homicides, and roughly 1 percent each were from accidents, legal interventions and undetermined causes.

    Reading beyond the headlines is important.

    So……. No…there is not a Civil War going on in the streets of our cities. AND when you consider that most of the homicides “in the streets” are black on black crimes or are gang wars between blacks, between hispanics etc.: your statement is not just statistically false it is a lie.

    1. DBQ:

      It isn’t an inaccurate presentation of data at all. More Americans have been killed in civilian life than in Wars since 1968.

      Because Americans are desensitised to violence on the streets it is accepted as normal. But it isn’t normal. It is very abnormal. There is no freedom, especially for the 20 year old boy shot to death in the street.

      And there’s no freedom for the killer…

  2. What am still confused about is what do people so gung ho about the 2nd amendment think their guns would do for them?
    What would they protect them from?
    Fellow citizens?
    The government?
    In a civil war, a gun will buy you a couple a days.
    Against the government, a gun will buy you 20 minutes.

    What is lost in the debate is that it is when everyone is armed that everyone is shot. A civil war, which is unavoidable by the way as things go, will be precipitated by the proliferation of guns. People no longer talk when they can shoot, that simple. We are more divided than we have ever been, blacks and whites, Muslims against Jews, Christians against Muslims, everyone against jews, cops vs civilians…the rich vs the poor…the fuse is about to catch a spark.

  3. Nick Spinelli
    1, December 6, 2015 at 12:51 pm

    “RSA, LOL! We need some healthy humor on this blog. Some folks are consumed w/ anger and hate.”

    We can’t all be as loving and mellow as you and Dick Cheney, Nick.

    Thanks again for making psychological projection a concrete perception for me, rather than just an abstract concept as it was before I began reading your posts here.

  4. @ Hildegard

    Bring it indeed. We are slowly being boiled to death, like the frogs in the warm water. If we want to save ourselves, then bring it on is the only way to go. Bring it while we can still save ourselves. Before it is too late and we are boiled.

    Sometimes you have to demolish the house to bring it back to the standards to which it was built. Get rid of the mold and re-frame the walls.

    1. DBQ: You are really suggesting a New Revolution, which if you think about it, is how America works. How it came into being in 1776 and how it stayed together in 1865. It certainly wasn’t democracy that fueled the engine of change – it was revolution.

      Canada didn’t do it this way. UK tried revolution and a Republic but abandoned quickly and reinstated the Monarchy.

      I think something has to happen. Most politicians would opt for a fudge with little effect… Whatever happens it must have the support of the majority of Americans.

      Will this issue dissolve the Union? How strong are the bonds, really, between the States? But most of all, is the USA really a country of United States?

      And finally are your enemies trying to cause a schism?

  5. Hildegard said: Tonight at 8pm. Obama may be responsible for starting a civil war as he tries to put the screws on legitimate gun owners in the name of “safety”

    I’m afraid you may be right.

    1. Dust Bunny; If things have to get worse before they better; I guess ‘bring it on’. I say ‘I guess’ because we’ve been through literally COUNTLESS revolutions in our (the human race) history and it’s gotten us HERE. Exactly nowhere. If the truth will set us free we need to get REAL busy. Most people simply cannot handle the truth because they think it’s too “negative”. NO. Ignorance is what’s negative.

          1. 99guspuppet:
            I have so much of this mis-information about guns I get irritated about having to correct it so frequently. You will believe what you want to believe and will support it in any way you can.

            According to a 2011 report from the Australian government, “…the number of victims of homicide has been in decline since 1996”. There were 354 victims in 1996, but only 260 victims in 2010, a decrease of 27 percent. Of those 260 victims however, only 36 were homicides involving a firearm. Also, “The proportion of homicide victims killed by offenders using firearms in 2009–10 represented a decrease of 18 percentage points from the peak of 31 percent in 1995–96 (the year in which the Port Arthur massacre occurred with the death of 35 people, which subsequently led to the introduction of stringent firearms legislation).”. In 2014, only 35 people were victims of firearms homicide (1 in 685000 population)compared to 98 people in 1996 (1 in 186000 population). A 3.7 fold decrease in firearm homicide rates since controls were introduced.

            Firearm suicides have fallen from about 22% of all suicides in 1992 to 7% of all suicides in 2005. Immediately following the Buyback there was a fall in firearm suicides which was more than offset by a 10% increase in total suicides in 1997and 1998. There were concerted efforts in suicide prevention from this time and in subsequent years the total suicide rate resumed its decline.

            The American National Rifle Association claimed in 2000 that violent crimes had increased in Australia since the introduction of new laws. The federal Attorney General Daryl Williams accused the NRA of falsifying government statistics and urged the NRA to “remove any reference to Australia” from its website.

            This is another example of mis-information and the NRA campaign of mis information. In America this is considered Freedom of Speech.

            http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/current%20series/tandi/101-120/tandi116.html

            So with the greatest disrespect, if you can’t post factually correct data I’m not going to debate the issue with you.

  6. Tonight at 8 pm. Watch the evisceration of the 2nd amendment. A 700% increase in mass killings (real or not) and the way to stop terrorism is to disarm the American populace. Make no mistake. That is the goal.

    Kissinger: “The illegal we do immediately; the unconstitutional takes a little longer.”

  7. RSA, LOL! We need some healthy humor on this blog. Some folks are consumed w/ anger and hate.

  8. I found this interesting and thought that others of this blog’s readers might, as well:

    An Incompetent FBI Dropped the Ball on Syed Farook
    By John Kiriakou, Reader Supported News
    06 December 15

    “The FBI has, yet again, dropped the ball. For all the billions of dollars in their budget, for all the metadata they and their intelligence colleagues are collecting on every American citizen, and for all the years they’ve had since the September 11 attacks to recruit informants to infiltrate terrorist groups, two people with ties to Muslim militants were able to perpetrate yet another mass shooting, this time resulting in 14 dead in San Bernardino, California.

    “One of the shooters, Syed Farook, was ‘in contact’ with terrorism suspects, but the FBI now admits that it did nothing about it. Indeed, a spokesman said that the contact was ‘soft,’ meaning that it wasn’t frequent. The implication is that Americans aren’t supposed to worry when somebody is in direct contact with a terrorist suspect overseas. It’s not important enough for the FBI to follow up on. Until, of course, that person shoots up a social services center and kills 14 people.

    “The problem here is deep, and it is one of longtime FBI incompetence, mismanagement, and intransigence.

    “I wrote in my book, The Reluctant Spy: My Secret Life in the CIA’s War on Terror, of an incident in which I personally witnessed FBI incompetence – in Peshawar, Pakistan, in 2002, when I was the chief of CIA counter-terrorism operations there.

    “I was part of a team that raided the Taliban embassy in Peshawar that year. As part of our ‘haul,’ we confiscated a set of file folders that contained more than a year’s worth of the embassy’s phone bills. Those bills showed hundreds of calls from the Taliban to phone numbers all across the United States – Buffalo, Kansas City, Sacramento, Tampa, Detroit, and elsewhere. Those calls ended abruptly on September 10, 2001, and then started up again on September 16.

    “Who was receiving these calls? Why were they receiving calls from the Taliban? It was possible that they were Afghan nationals with legitimate consular issues. But it was equally plausible that they were working for or with the Taliban in some way, possibly against the United States. Could they have been spies? Were they ‘sleepers,’ tasked with living quiet lives until called upon to carry out an attack? We didn’t know. I informed CIA Headquarters and was told that it was an FBI issue. I then sent the original phone bills to the FBI, with copies to the CIA, and then I returned to my regular business.

    “Months passed. I returned to CIA Headquarters and, in the summer of 2002, I ran into an FBI agent with whom I had worked in Pakistan. ‘What happened with those Taliban phone bills?’ I asked. The FBI was waiting for Pashto translators to become available. ‘Pashto translators?’ I asked. “But those bills were written in English. That’s how I knew what they were.’

    “I resigned from the CIA a year and a half later. Again I ran into a former FBI colleague. ‘Whatever happened to those Taliban phone bills?’ ‘Oh,’ he said, ‘they ended up being shipped to an FBI storage facility in suburban Maryland.’

    “Just like in the final scene of Raiders of the Lost Ark, the box of phone bills was never even opened. We’ll never know if there was or is a threat to Americans originating with the Taliban or Taliban sympathizers. We’ll never know why those Americans were in contact with the Taliban immediately before and immediately after September 11.

    “This seems to be what happened again last week in San Bernardino. Metadata collection is no substitute for human intelligence and good police work. But even with the information that Farook was in contact with terrorist suspects, the FBI did nothing. This time people died. Heads should roll.”

    John Kiriakou is an associate fellow with the Institute for Policy Studies. He is a former CIA counter-terrorism officer and a former senior investigator with the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

  9. @po
    1, December 6, 2015 at 1:21 am

    Many thanks for the links to the essays by Dr. Nafeez Ahmed. His essay on the consolidation of the mass media under the control of warmongering robber barons like Rupert Murdoch is alone worth its weight in gold, complementing brilliantly the earlier work of Chomsky and Edward Herman (Manufacturing Consent: The Political Economy of the Mass Media) and Robert McChesney (The Problem of the Media:US Communication Politics in the 21st Century).

    Dr. Ahmed’s essay is an excellent primer on how the few control the many, on how a handful of media moguls control the information people are allowed to acquire and to think about, thereby effecting mind and social control of whole populations.

    As only one important example of their effective propagandizing in the service of their geopolitical agenda, the controllers of the mass media had 70% of the US population in 2003 believing that Saddam Hussein had engineered the attacks of 9/11/01, thus consolidating public support for the invasion and occupation of Iraq:
    Veteran pollsters say the persistent belief of a link between the attacks and Saddam could help explain why public support for the decision to go to war in Iraq has been so resilient despite problems establishing a peaceful country.
    http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/washington/2003-09-06-poll-iraq_x.htm

  10. The real reason this happened is that Mr. and Mrs. Farook were not happy with San Bernadino’s family leave policy. And Mr. Farook felt that being required to attend a Christmas luncheon was a micro-aggression that made him feel unsafe.

  11. Po……maybe so……interesting to speculate about what might have happened.
    In any case, the upheaval caused the U.S. to take its eye off the real threat (see “North Dakota found to be harboring nuclear weapons”

  12. I hear you, Tom, hard to tell either way. The way geopolitics work however, I would be incredibly surprised if Iran and Iraq never fought, no matter who was helming them.
    ——————————————

    These links are must read:
    https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence/western-firms-plan-to-cash-in-on-syria-s-oil-and-gas-frontier-6c5fa4a72a92#.iram21o73
    http://www.mediareform.org.uk/blog/how-the-mainstream-media-became-a-neo-stalinist-propaganda-regime-for-wealthy-neocons

  13. Ken and Po
    There was indeed a U.S./U.K. supported 1953 coup on Iran.
    Po, IF the Shah/Rezani line regime had survived in Iran, and the Saddam regime in Iraq, I don’t see a history of antipathy between the two, or subsequent conflicts likely.
    I say this because these were fairly secular countries prior to the 1979 Iranian Islamic Revolution, and I’m not aware of any significant Iraqi-Iranian issues fir conflict.
    That obviously changed when Khomeni came to power…..his call for an Iraqi- Shia uprising against Saddam in Iraq kicked off the 1980s war.
    I can’t see a Shah-Bathist regime going to war. With the exception if the Iraq-Kuwait issue, I’m not aware of imperialistic designs by either the Shah or Saddam.
    Ken, your point about the dustinction between the internal revolt in Iran v. the EXTERNAL removal of Saddam (and Gaddafi, for that matter), is valid.
    There are some “qualifiers” to this distinction, however. The Carter administration pointedly told the Shah not to risk all out civil war by suppressing the rebellion. Carter was anticipating favorable relations with the subsequent (Khomeni) regime.
    I think Zig Brezsinski urged Carter to back the Shah, while others in the Carter administration were publically calling the “pious” Khomeni “saintly”.
    The western media were generally repirting favorably about tge “reformer” Khomeni, while the Shah’s regime was tettering.
    In short, Khomeni was really an unknown, poorly understood figure by western governments and western media. And generally felt to be a suitable replacement fir the Shah.
    There was the itger wild card of the Shah’s health…in was in the later stages of cancer. A Shah opponent…I don’t recall his name (Iranian agents assassinated him in Paris years later), was placed in charge, by the Shah, as head of an interim government while the shah went into tempory(_he thought) exile.
    I believe there were arraingements made fir future elections, with a possible role for the Shah as a figurehead monarch.
    When Khomeni arrived in Iran from exile, all bets were off. The Iranian Islamic revolutionaries launch reprisals not only against SAVAC and former regime officials, but all Khomeni opponents…..even the “anti-shah” political opponents.
    The Iranian military, unsure of leadership and direction given the Shah’s departure and the Carter Admininistration warnings about using exceesive force against the uprisising, collapsed.
    There were mass defections to the Khomeni faction, indecisive top military leadership, mixed signals about whether to “do battle” or pack it in, and the existing military structure basically disintegrated.
    I’m not trying to put too fine a point on this, but there was definately outside influence/outside pressure involved in the collapse of the Shah’s regime.
    Any hopes of cordial relations with the new regime were dashed when the shah was admitted to America for medical treatment, the U,S. Embassy was attacked, and hostages held for c.440 days.
    Had the shah not been admitted to America, and the embassy not attacked, I’m still not sure that the “saintly” Khomeni desired good relations with the West.
    He sure as hell did not desire good telations with Iraq.

  14. @po
    1, December 5, 2015 at 8:44 pm
    “When people usually refer to ‘invaded wrong country’, they mean Iraq…hence my mistake.”

    Yes, it was, but it wasn’t your mistake that ninnianpeckitt wouldn’t answer my question regarding which country he was alluding to as the wrongly invaded country.

    So, to answer your question, “Ken, what are you missing in ninian’s posts, he seems clear enough to me…”, I’m missing a willingness on his part to express himself clearly and coherently or to at least answer questions motivated by a desire to understand what he’s trying to say.

  15. Po. God bless you for that bit of 911 truth! Wake up people. The end is nigh upon us and we’re on our own. Time to get busy and spread the truth far and wide. It’s our only hope.

  16. Ken Rogers; WOW thank you so much for that. Truth will set us FREE! Keep spreading it far and wide.

  17. ninian “On another note, about voting, my Irish mother used to tell me that in Ireland they “voted as many times as necessary to get their man in” That’s funny until it isn’t.

    Part 1 of a film by Gigi Gaston about fraud in the Democratic Presidential primaries and caucuses.

  18. @ Hildegard
    1, December 5, 2015 at 8:48 pm

    “I’m sorry but am I to believe that there are people here who believe the official Osama Bin Laden raid story? Oh my word, ya’ll have some real catching up to do.”

    “Another Fake Bin Laden Story — Paul Craig Roberts
    “November 7, 2014
    (Dr. Paul Craig Roberts was Assistant Secretary of the Treasury for Economic Policy and associate editor of the Wall Street Journal. He was columnist for Business Week, Scripps Howard News Service, and Creators Syndicate. He has had many university appointments. His internet columns have attracted a worldwide following. Roberts’ latest books are The Failure of Laissez Faire Capitalism, Economic Dissolution of the West, and How America Was Lost).

    “RT, one of my favorite news sources, has fallen for a fake story put out by the Pentagon to support the fantasy story that a SEAL team killed Osama bin Laden, who died a second time in Abbottabad, Pakistan, a decade after his first death from illness and disease.
    http://rt.com/usa/202895-navy-seal-shot-binladen/

    “This fake story together with the fake movie and the fake book by an alleged SEAL team member is the way the fake story of bin Laden’s murder is perpetrated. Bin Laden’s alleged demise at the hands of a SEAL team was a propaganda orchestration, the purpose of which was to give Obama a hero’s laurels and deep six Democratic talk of challenging his nomination for a second term.

    “Osama bin Laden died in December 2001 of renal failure and other health problems, having denied in his last recorded video any responsibility for 9/11, instead directing Americans to look inside their own government. The FBI itself has stated that there is no evidence that Osama bin Laden is responsible for 9/11. Bin Laden’s obituary appeared in numerous foreign and Arabic press, and also on Fox News. No one can survive renal failure for a decade, and no dialysis machine was found in the alleged Abbottabad compound of bin Laden, who allegedly was murdered by SEALs a decade after his obituary notices.

    “Additionally, no one among the crew of the ship from which the White House reported bin Laden was buried at sea saw any such burial, and the sailors sent messages home to that effect. Somehow a burial was held onboard a ship on which there are constant watches and crew on alert at all hours, and no one witnessed it.

    “Additionally, the White House story of the alleged murder of bin Laden changed twice within the first 24 hours. The claim that Obama and his government watched the action transmitted live from cameras on the SEALs’ helmets was quickly abandoned, despite the release of a photo of the Obama regime intently focused on a TV set and alleged to be watching the live action. No video of the deed was ever released. To date there is no evidence whatsoever in behalf of the Obama regime’s claim. Not one tiny scrap. Just unsubstantiated self-serving claims.

    “Additionally, as I have made available on my website, witnesses interviewed by Pakistan TV reported that only one helicopter landed in Abbottabad and that when the occupants of the helicopter returned from the alleged bin Laden compound, the helicopter exploded on takeoff and there were no survivors. In other words, there was no bin Laden corpse to deliver to the ship that did not witness a burial and no SEAL hero to return who allegedly murdered an unarmed bin Laden. Moreover, the BBC interviewed residents in Abbottabad, including those next door to the alleged “bin Laden compound,” and all say that they knew the person who lived there and it was not bin Laden.

    “Any SEAL who was so totally stupid as to kill the unarmed ‘Terror Mastermind’ would probably have been courtmartialed for incompetency. Look at the smiling face of the man Who Killed Bin Laden. He thinks that his claim that he murdered a man makes him a hero, a powerful comment on the moral degeneracy of Americans.

    “So what is this claim by Rob O’Neill about? He is presented as a ‘motivational speaker’ in search of clients. What better ploy among gullible Americans than to claim ‘I am the one who shot bin Laden.’ Reminds me of the western movie: The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance. What better way to give Rob O’Neill’s claim validity than for the Pentagon to denounce his revelation for breaking [his] obligation to remain silent. The Pentagon claims that O’Neill by claiming credit has painted a big target sign on our door asking ISIS to come get us.

    “What unbelievable nonsense. ISIS and anyone who believed Obama’s claim to have done in bin Laden already knew, if they believed the lie, that the Obama regime claimed responsibility for murdering an unarmed bin Laden. The reason the SEAL team was prevented from talking is that no member of the team was on the alleged mission.

    “Just as the ship from which bin Laden was allegedly buried has no witnesses to the deed, the SEAL unit, whose members formed the team that allegedly dispatched an unarmed Terrorist Mastermind rather than to take him into custody for questioning, mysteriously died in a helicopter crash when they were loaded in violation of procedures in an unprotected 1960s vintage helicopter and sent into a combat zone in Afghanistan shortly after the alleged raid on ‘bin Laden’s compound.’

    “For awhile there were news reports that the families of these dead SEALS do not believe one word of the government’s account. Moreover, the families reported receiving messages from the SEALs that suddenly they felt threatened and did not know why. The SEALs had been asking one another: ‘Were you on the bin Laden mission?’ Apparently, none were. And to keep this a secret, the SEALs were sent to their deaths.

    “Anyone who believes anything the US government says is gullible beyond the meaning of the word.”

  19. ninian “They went on to do it again in looking for “Weapons of Mass Deception” in Iraq….” Tongue in cheek, I realize, but isn’t that a more apt description of our very own mass media?

    As far as me thinking in other ways? Oh my yes, and it’s been this way for years. My mother always told me that “It’s okay to be different”. She has since changed her mind. LOL

    “There is so much confidence in sheer ignorance. It is almost something to admire.” My word, you DO have a sense of humor! Humor is the only thing keeping me going and there is SO much material for the politically (and otherwise) incorrect.

    “It is a “Let’s shoot first then ask questions later culture” In the words of Alex Jones, this country was founded on guns and whiskey. I trust you saw the Piers Morgan interview?

    This video which I’ve posted before explains our “failed” policies in the Middle East. You see, they’re not really failed at all…. Crashing by Design. Right now,Russia is the only spanner in works, God bless them.

    1. Hildegarde: The issue here is that if you ignore slavery, America is founded on great ideals which Americans rightly hold dear…… and then totally ignore.

      In the discussions on this blog you will find that when you win an argument it is ignored or more often than not an attempt is made to change the subject.

      You have a lot of dead people in America because of your foreign policy alienating Muslims and promting recruitment to terrorist groups. I am saying this is not the way to win and I am being ignored and ridiculed by some Americans who are unable to admit the truth. That despite the best of intentions, US foreign policy has been a disaster since the Battle of Wounded Knee. I can go on for hours about this – with evidence. I never post anything unless I have a reference to corroborate the facts.

      The “opposition” consistently make postings which are frequently refuted when a literature search is undertaken. Such misinformation is calculating and designed for mischief. So I am not impressed by uninformed statements posted. Nor am I impressed by the demonstration of real ignorance that appears to be widespread. If you form an opinion you need to research the subject first. Then the discussion can go somewhere and you learn from each other.

      Apart from the odd autospell check error, everything I post can be verified.

      The comments posted are becoming so vitriolic there is a real chance of serious public disorder and backlash against Muslims in particular. If they are to make their homes in America they must pledge their allegiance to the American Flag and Nation. And not only that they must be seen by their actions and not words to reject ISIS.

      And as for America, all I have to say is, if you make war you do so to win.

      And since 1945 I don’t think America can say it has won anything…..

      Has this made the world a better place? You tell me….

      1. ninian; It’s “auto spell” not autospell.Couldn’t resist! Other than that I completely agree with everything you stated. It’s quite logical and clear and personally know of no reason for the vitriol. A difference of viewpoint is one thing and personal attacks are another. I’ve been “guilty” of both! Sometimes I feel like Paul Revere riding through a sleepy town with about 95% of the people being merely angry at me for trying to wake them up. The “Kill the Messenger” routine gets tiresome and frustrating. I post links and excerpts from well researched, logical articles and videos and as far as I can tell almost no one actually reads or watches, yet their opinion is that I should either be ignored, demonized or institutionalized.

        “You have a lot of dead people in America because of your foreign policy alienating Muslims and prompting recruitment to terrorist groups.” Seriously? People argue with this glaring fact? Unbelievable, I know

        “that despite the best of intentions, US foreign policy has been a disaster..” Best of intentions? I’m not too sure about that!

        “The comments posted are becoming so vitriolic there is a real chance of serious public disorder and backlash against Muslims in particular.” Here’s where I get the MOST vitriol which says to ME that I am too close to an uncomfortable truth…a truth that the lemmings just can’t handle and that is that this “public disorder” and “backlash”, hate and fear is BY DESIGN. Every hear of a Psyop? This entire “event” is one of those. People go ape shit when I bring this up. And guess what? They think I’m the one losing it even though I can post 25 videos and articles that prove the point.

        “And since 1945 I don’t think America can say it has won anything…..” The rabbit hole goes deep and wide and I question even the 1945 claim! (Here come the guys in the white coats!)

        Nice chatting with you ninian…The human race has been been in deep caca for eons and it will take more than politics to solve the problems. It will take a profound “rebirth” or first birth..a real connection to divine conscience, not the pseudo guilt, shame, or morality imposed upon us.

        Some of my comments are not posting. Don’t know if others are having this problem.

        Dazed Lemmings Can’t Bridge The Reality Gap
        http://www.zengardner.com/dazed-lemmings-cant-bridge-the-reality-gap/

        1. We just had an attack on the London Tube. I believe 3 stabbed by someone shouting “this is for Syria”. No fatalities and knife man arrested. The is a hashtag going round:

          #YouAintNoMuslimBruvva

          following comments made in the station by a witness uttering the words. Maybe this is the beginning of the voice of the (silent) Muslim majority? Whatever it is – it should be a good thing.

          Now here is the rub. Guns are difficult to get hold of in the UK. Not impossible – but if the same thing happened in New York City with automatic weapons so eady to obtain ‘ it would have had a different outcome.

          Now of course there are other options. Home made Bomb’s etc. No protection is foolproof but you need to consider should a subway be a gun free zone? Or is the banning of guns on the subway unconstitutional? And if it is unconstitutional, what about aircraft? Is it unconstitutional to prevent the right to bear arms on aircraft? You can see how the debate can mushroom if protagonists want to dig their heels in and ignore common sense.

          It is clear that the Founding Father’s had no idea the can of worms they were opening. America has the 2nd Amendment to which it adheres, or breaks – at will.

          The system you have is unworkable and everyone knows it. To survive a changing environment evolution is essential and without adaptation an American dinosaur is on the verge of extinction.

          1. ninianpeckitt “The system you have is unworkable and everyone knows it. To survive a changing environment evolution is essential and without adaptation an American dinosaur is on the verge of extinction.”

            Certainly the U.K. system is also “unworkable”. Certainly the Australian system is “unworkable”. I don’t know where you get your stats but mine say that since the gun ban in Australia armed robberies are up 69%, assaults with guns up 28%, gun murder are up 19%, and home invasions are up 21%.

            It would be beyond lovely if taking the guns of law abiding citizens would reduce crime overall but the facts are the facts and the definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over expecting a different result. We need to move on from this naive idea that disarming law abiding people will reduce crime. WE WISH.

            Look at Chicago, look at Brazil, look at Mexico, look at the U.K. Yes, I know GUN violence has been reduced in the U.K. but I also know that crime stats are highly manipulated and other forms of violence are up. Can we please move on?

            Tonight at 8pm. Obama may be responsible for starting a civil war as he tries to put the screws on legitimate gun owners in the name of “safety”. Don’t you see what is happening? Don’t you see the bigger picture? Don’t you see this has absolutely nothing to do with protecting us from ANYTHING?

            ” “We are on the verge of a global transformation. All we need is the right major crisis and the nations will accept the New World Order.”

            David Rockefeller

  20. Hildegard, when I heard they buried Osama at sea, I knew the whole story was false.
    Regarding 9/11, someone must explain to me how building 47, which was not hit, came down…especially in the manner with which it did.
    Additionally, when over 1500 architects and engineers believe the buildings fell due to controlled demolition (alongside the planes), as an architect, I must pay attention.

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