The event at my university for candidates for DNC Chair has caused a bit of a ruckus after various candidates lashed out at white consultants and white people in answering questions. The George Washington event was aired on C-Span and the most controversial comments came from the executive director of Idaho’s Democratic Party, Sally Boynton Brown. I woke up this morning to find emails from GW students on some of the racially charged comments at the forum. Brown said that white people working with the party had to be taught to “shut their mouths.” Other candidates lashed out at “white consultants” as part of the systemic problem at the DNC. The result is a debate on campus that only highlights the school and our wonderful location in Washington.
I thought that valid points seemed to get lost at points in the rhetoric at the event. Many of the speakers were trying to acknowledge the sense of alarm and hurt felt in some communities, particularly communities of color. However, some responses to the election took on a more lethal element. For example, Raymond Buckley, the chairman for the New Hampshire Democratic Party, discussed how even in New Hampshire his black niece literally feared for her life after the election of Donald Trump. Here is the full quote:
BUCKLEY: “We were all grieving and I was shocked that America elected Donald Trump. I could not believe — I got home around 4:00 in the morning. But at 6:00 in the morning I was woken up. I saw that it was my niece Tunisia. What had not even processed I was upset about the results is how she was going to as a young African-American 20-year-old, how she processed what happened the night before and she was sobbing so hard I couldn’t understand at first what she was saying and I kept saying, what is wrong, what is wrong? She goes, Uncle Raymond, you have to get me out of here. She feared for her safety by what happened on Election Day. Now, until all of America understands the fear that is out there, the justified fear because of what we’re seeing happen across the country, to African-American lives, we’re never going to be able to move this country forward. It is important. I never again want to ever get a call from “The Today Show” like that. It was a soul crushing experience for me because when Tunisia was saying get me out of this country because my life is in danger because she had that overwhelming fear. That is something that is not just certain cities. It’s not just certain parts of the country. That fear is all across the country. It’s even in rural new Hampshire. So when people say black lives matter, you are damn right they matter.”
Is it fair to say that election has caused a “justified fear” for the life of a 20-year-old black women living in New Hampshire? I understand that there are legitimate fears from crime and other dangers in our society. Moreover, the election will bring about changes that many have opposed. However, the notion that Tunisia has to leave the country out of fear for her life is thankfully unsupported. I appreciate the passions of Tunisia but it is also important to put this election into a real context and seek real change if you disagree with the election.
I think that we need to appreciate that people of color have watched white supremacists and other intolerant people in this election. There has been harmful racist language on both sides. The result is that some see existential dangers in the outcome of these elections. That is certainly something that we need to address and I think that that was what Buckley was trying to say. However, this was democratic election in a peaceful transition of power. We remain a nation of laws. Those laws protect Tunisia and everyone.
Brown’s comments particularly triggered a debate on the Internet as to why it is permissible to run on the notion that you want to shut white people up. The racially charged message seemed to double down on the identity politics used unsuccessfully in the last election, particularly after Bill Clinton recently said that his wife lost because Trump figured out “how to get angry, white men to vote for him.” The party actually did very well with the African American vote. Trump won among white women and he did better than Romney among Hispanics, Asians, and blacks.
All of the DNC candidates pledged not to work with Trump and some hammered away that the DNC had to reject consultant companies on the basis for the race of their owners. However, it was Brown that went all in on the subject of race:
“We pull people in and they are volunteers. They don’t know anything and then we send them out to have conversations with people, hard conversations. We promote them to chair of a party where they have power and they have no clue what they are doing. We have to, at the DNC, provide training. We have to teach them how to communicate, how to be sensitive and how to shut their mouths if they are white. So I think I made my point.”
Brown denounced white privilege and said that the Democratic party has racist elements that it had to address. She was passionate in her argument that white people need to listen to their black neighbors about their experiences, which is clearly true and helpful. There needs to be far more dialogue in this country on race. However, some of the rhetoric on race and “shutting up” white people has caused an outcry on various sites. In fairness to Brown, the shorter clips posted today made her sound more like a race-baiter when she message was that whites need to listen. However, there were elements that would be viewed as wholly unacceptable if the races were reversed. Here is a long format of the comments.
The event continues to reverberate on campus. I think that we should understand that some of this rhetoric was heated but intended to show the depth of the anger and fear over the election. I do not agree with some of the rhetoric and I do not believe that it is helpful to the DNC. This election showed a serious disconnect with many voters in the country. Part of that may have been the selection of perhaps the worst possible candidate in a largely anti-establishment election. Yet, in calling for a more inclusive party (a clearly good thing) the language was surprisingly divisive at points. If we want greater dialogue between whites and blacks, the conversation should not start on the premise of shutting up one side due to their race.
In the end, I felt the forum on campus was a great addition to our community and its continuing debate over the election. Campuses are places for passionate exchanges and honest viewpoints. This was certainly raw and confrontational at points but it has caused a great discussion among students and faculty about politics, language, and identity. I am glad that we were able to host the event.
First thing all of you can do is wake up and realize you didn’t have a two party system it was one party with two faces. That’s been shattered. Right now there are splinters on the left and in the Constitutional Center a strong group of supporters. Wake up face facts choose who you want to support. Secular Progressivce Socialist Extremists, What looks like the old Democrat Party being taken over by the African American Community, the Greens, the Berners, the Jewish Culture, the Asians all up for grabs and in the wings the rapidly approaching new majority the Latino Americans. and some close to center Democrats.
In the center are the moderates who stand firm with the Constitution as the center of the Constitutional Republic and it’s suipport base of representative democratic prnciples. ALL of which the left abandoned.
The Republicans are either in that last and center group or are what’s left of the RINOs and if they don’t choose wisely will find themselves overe in left wing extremist land with their former masters. Right now though with the formerly unrepresented it’s up to the new President and so far he’s going Constitutional.
Whose the main enemy? Thje old establishment and their media clowns and who believes them anyway?
That’s as close as I can come to putting pieces on the board
But I do applaud and support the African Americans in their move to take over and get paybacks on the Democrats for centuries of being the party of slavery, black laws, jim crow laws and anti civil rights policies. I got it! Let’s call the socialist extremists the “Or Something” Party. The name truly fits.
I hesitate to reply, not for concern about criticism but for the fact I’ll be spending words (and time) I’ll never get back. There is such a polarization about race evidenced in most of these comments and little desire to listen. That Tunisia has a fear I understand although I wonder where she could go and fear not? I think she’s likely safer now than she’d be in most anyplace else she could choose but still less safe than her white classmates and friends. What Trump as President does mean is a complete lack of desire to address an inequity of justice in this country and Jess Sessions as Attorney General confirms it. The recent reports about the Chicago Police Department and Ferguson may well be the last.
Desperately Seeking Susan feels civil rights completed its goal circa 1971 and that continued injustice is simply a fallacy. She does acknowledge a difference in economic status which apparently has no relationship with transpired before or after. Someone else seems to think Barack Obama caused the racial divide in America, I’d say he revealed it.
Another talked about the past of the Democratic Party which is all true ad there are remnants still. For whatever past Republicans recognize (e.g. The Party of Lincoln). They might due well to remember that while Lincoln personally opposed slavery he was quite content to live with it. The Emancipation Proclamation was not about granting freedom to slaves (it only affected rebellion states and places like Kentucky, Missouri and Texas were not affected) it was about keeping France and England from forming agreements with the South and disrupting the stronger Southern economy. Republicans sold out the slaves they freed in the Compromise of 1877 where they negotiated the win of a contested Presidential election in exchange for withdrawing Federal troops from the South effectively ending reconstruction. In the 1960’s they opened their arms to the defecting Democrats who objected to the passage of Civil Rights and Voting Rights Acts. The 1970’s gave us the Southern Strategy begun under Nixon and fine tuned by the first Bush.
Both parties are complicit in the hyper mass incarceration of minorities. Jess Sessions wants credit for helping reduce sentencing disparities for crack cocaine vs. powder from 100:1 to “only” 18:1. While it is better it is not fair.
What has been consistent since the founding of the country is controlling power thru who has the ability to vote. All those who rail about Voter ID laws while ignoring the dozens of laws associated with them being passed solely to reduce the amount of minority (and sometimes student) voters are either being willfully obtuse or insincere. Trump stopped a Federal Lawsuit against Texas for its unconstitutional Voter Suppression laws on his first day in office. That is what we might have to fear.
Much has been made about some white people having been told to “shut up.” It reminds of a statement attributed to Jeff Sessions to black people needing to “know how to speak to white people.” It’s hard to speak to the “shut up” comments without knowing the complete context but there are likely situations where some white people need to do more listening and less talking. Especially when they try to tell people of color what they are experiencing and denying them their own voice.
I’m now prepared to hear about my “Marxist leanings” or how i “must be bought by George Soros” of like someone said to Tunisia that I should indeed leave. I await the “Alternative Facts” that are on the way.
Yep, many in the crew here thinks that everyone that disagrees with them is paid by George Soros.. They live in a Trumpian Breitbart bubble and I bet some are paid to blog by someone other than George Soros, 🙂
I wish that Jonathan Hurley himself would join in the conversations after he gets them started. I wonder if he’d like what he sees?
Probably.
“Turley” is Jonathan’s last name. Show some respect for our host.
Joe – the Women’s March was supported by 50 organizations getting funding from George Soros. We know there were ads for activists paying $2500 for the Inauguration, that money had to come from somewhere, might as well be a Soros funded organization. We know that Soros paid for activists in Ferguson, bused them in. This has the stink of Soros about it.
I can’t look at this fake news anymore.
She does acknowledge a difference in economic status which apparently has no relationship with transpired before or after.
If you’re human capital isn’t getting you the wages you want, you have to work on skill development. No one can pee for you.
Much has been made about some white people having been told to “shut up.” It reminds of a statement attributed to Jeff Sessions to black people needing to “know how to speak to white people.” I
It shouldn’t remind you of that. It’s not the same thing.
While we’re at it, it’s likely your supervisor is white. It pays to know how to speak to him.
“It’s likely your supervisor is white.” If you haven’t, (see how I didn’t assume you likely didn’t) I suggest you see the film, “Hidden Figures.” There are several examples of the barriers to working on “skill development” which for you may be a given.
Your local community college would be delighted to have the revenue to be derived from your presence there.
I’d be more impressed if you cited actual workplace sociology rather than films.
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I have on occasion considered teaching at a Community College. Perhaps one day? I gave you a film example (based on history) in an attempt to meet you where you are.
How can you assume that someone has a white supervisor and that the supervisor is male?
How can you have gotten past the age of 8 without learning the meaning of the word ‘likely’ (or is it the word ‘assume’ that you don’t know)?
People who make their primary living through self-employment constitute maybe 5% of the workforce. People who run the companies they work for are a tiny minority of the working population. It’s reasonable to wager he has a supervisor. Most people in this country are white without qualification. A bloc of the hispanic population will select ‘white’ if asked to select a phenotype. So it’s reasonable to guess his supervisor is white or the next supervisor he works for will be white.
Understanding this isn’t that difficult.
Trump stopped a Federal Lawsuit against Texas for its unconstitutional Voter Suppression laws on his first day in office. That is what we might have to fear.
There is no voter suppression. Quit lying to yourself and everyone else.
This would be one of those Alternative Facts. Were you a willing listener I’d be happy to explain point by point why and how voter suppression is real. “The federal court in Richmond found that the primary purpose of North Carolina’s wasn’t to stop voter fraud, but rather to disenfranchise minority voters. The judges found that the provisions “target African Americans with almost surgical precision.” I’d have provided the entire text the quote came from but since you would “likely” not read it I’ll save time. Calling something a lie, in and of itself does not make it unreal or go away.
That you have a misfeasant judge conspiring with your attorneys means nothing. Your vote is not ‘suppressed’ because you’re too indolent to get a picture ID to show them at the polling station.
I’d listen to you if you ever had a decent argument. You don’t.
Never once has a “Voter ID” law been passed that didn’t include several other laws not involving ID designed to suppress votes. You wouldn’t recognize a “decent argument” because you simply deny all the facts at your pleasure. I could even agree with the ID portion of the law except for the various interpretations as to what ID is acceptable and that pesky unconstitutional poll tax associated with obtaining one. Most states now require various things as proof of ID like a certified copy of one’s birth certificate for example. When I needed to request mine the associated cost to get mine from out of state was $35. Alabama just reduced the number of locations in only heavily minority districts where a drivers license could be obtained to one per county and reduced working hours to during the week only a few days a week. Just an example (not from a movie) of what you refuse to see for what it is. I respond to you not in hopes you’ll acknowledge anything but in hopes another reader will acknowledge your denial and arguments to be as weak as they are.
Of course the answer is simple. What else or Why else was the National ID card system put into use and made so easy for any needy entity to use inlcuding voting precincts?
WHAT National ID Card?
Check you drivers license, bank cards, credit cards, passports and passport cards , etc. ad infinitum. Does it have a little golden square in one end? Congratulations only thing it needs added is fingerprints or retina scan
Come to think of it what do you think a cell radio telephone is. A tracking device to locate you anywhere, any time for any reason.
And little by little the improvements are added. Incrementally and without question..
I hardly think requiring a free government issued picture ID constitutes voter suppression. You need one to board an airplane but don’t need one to vote. Come on, now. Don’t voters have any responsibility to do anything except show up?
and their national ID cards.
I didn’t create the “poll tax” laws but know they exist. I ask you, what do you have to show up with to get a “free” government ID? Why are certain government ID’s like State college issued photo ID’s unacceptable in some states but gun registration permits are? My point is that it has been made (always) harder for minorities to vote. Because I have voted in every election doesn’t mean that millions of others (a real figure as opposed to the one Trump made up about “illegals”) aren’t prevented from doing so. Your question shouldn’t be do voters have no responsibility but should some voters have to overcome higher hurdles?
Here’s what Virginia accepts:
Valid Virginia Driver’s License or Identification Card
Valid Virginia DMV issued Veteran’s ID card
Valid United States Passport
Other government-issued photo identification cards (must be issued by US Government, the Commonwealth of Virginia, or a political subdivision of the Commonwealth)
Tribal enrollment or other tribal ID issued by one of 11 tribes recognized by the Commonwealth of Virginia
Valid college or university student photo identification card (must be from an institution of higher education located in Virginia)
Valid student ID issued by a public school or private school in Virginia displaying a photo
Employee identification card containing a photograph of the voter and issued by an employer of the voter in the ordinary course of the employer’s business
If you want the DMV ID card you need to show up with the exact same thing you show up with to register for school. Are we keeping minorities out of school, too?
Hard to believe a person doesn’t have one of these unless they don’t want one.
In Virginia one of the requirements to get a “free” Drivers license without specific identification almost all of which require an original birth certificate. If one doesn’t happen to have one, there certainly is a cost in obtaining it. I’m not going to research it but there is also a debate in Virginia about restoring rights of felons to vote. The Governor wants o allow it and Republicans (the legislature) don’t. This is where the mass incarceration comes into play as that policy affects minorities more. Virginia is considered one of the more liberal states as it applies to Voter ID. One of their defenses of their law was that it “wasn’t as bad as North Carolina.” I assure you that it voter suppression exists and the denial of it is mostly along partisan lines.
You can go through life without possessing a birth certificate? Really? You never went to school or applied for benefits. Never? It’s simple to get the DMV ID card if you don’t already have a driver’s license. If you lost your birth certificate, an exemplar can be obtained for the princely sum of $12.00. You can get one at the same DMV or the Dept of Vital records. Quite the hurdle. BTW, We’ve always allowed for restoration of rights of deserving individual felons who have served their sentences just not the wholesale method our governor wants to employ for political reasons.
If I rephrased what you’re saying. $12 is little enough inconvenience for those that want to vote and if you were born in another state and need it before 30-60 days and it costs $35-60 as it did when I ordered mine. That’s not really a cost to vote and therefore not an unconstitutional poll tax.
enigmainblackcom – people who were born in the state got their birth certificates for free. The cost you had to pay is the fault of the state you come from, not the one you are in. And it is not a poll tax.
That is generally true that people originally received a birth certificate although not always, especially the older one is. I can only speculate as to what percentage of people no longer have their original. Copies for the purpose of containing ID to vote would represent a poll tax if they weren’t free (which they are not).
enigmainblackcom – not restoring felon’s rights in not voter suppression. They also don’t have the right of free travel or the right to carry a firearm.
Almost all states disagree. Does one repay their debt to society or not?
enigmainblackcom – I see it on a case by case basis, not automatic.
And who decides? Can we count on that decision not to be partisan? I meant to ask earlier and I really don’t know the answer in advance. What was Bob McDonnell’s record on restoring rights to felons?
What’s wrong with partisan? A. We just got rid of a single party system and B. We didn’t send them there to get along
I can think of several reasons without trying why partisan would be wrong. If you can think of none, I suggest you’re not trying. I did look at McDonnell’s policies regarding restoration of rights which was automatic assuming a non-violent offense with specific exclusions. Good for him. What was the difference between McDonnell’s policy and McAuliffe?
I want to make sure the effort by the RINOS or hopefully the former RINOs marked a permanent change and not just a business as usual ho hum pause. then back to normal. I don’t trust them no matter what they say or do. Democrats wor whatver are bad enough but the Republicans have been punched out what? Three times now? Then went back to being the right wing of the left and were along with the left one of the major targets. So? they either change and ;prove it, or we’ll kick their ass again. After all it will mean they are only another leftist. and who cares what kind when the body count is taken – in this case the end of the next voting go round. They are, I fear, as much in denial as the trash on the other end of the left.
I’m reasonably intelligent, I didn’t understand much of what you just said. I recognize all the words individually and don’t need help with definitions. Can somebody translate for me?
enigmainblackcom – each state has a system for restoration of rights. Who does the dirty deed would be dependent on the state.
40 States one way or another have automatic restoration after completion of their sentence, sometimes parole and or probation is completed. http://felonvoting.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=000286
Soime are more equal than others. The latest spin on your question is the Money Is Free Speech argument which awards a right not granted to some (sort of legal pay for play) while at the same time taking away rights already in existence.
Until the law is followed and not ignored such nonsense will continue in one form or another and it will adversely affect all citizens usually to the benefit of ‘the government.’
There have been no poll taxes assessed in this country since 1966.
It’s not hard for minorities to vote. Democratic lawfare artists are attacking voter ID laws because voter ID laws disrupt some of their ballot-box stuffing schemes. The babble about blacks is a red herring and you, sir, are a mark.
Engima. See why you need to take oiver the Demcorat Party.
One of us is living in a non-truth based bubble that will not allow truth to enter. I’ll allow you to believe that it’s me. If you wanted to see what information is available including comments from those initiating Voter Suppression laws and their intentions. That you choose to look away and not see is on you.
enigmainblackcom – I have to show my ID every time I vote. They do not care what color I am, only that I am in the right polling place and I sign my name correctly. In AZ they will come to you to make an ID if you are house-bound. And it is free. What part of this is a problem?
I almost exaggerated about the number of times I’ve said this and I don’t want to taint my argument by “Trumping.”. The ID aspect is the least onerous of the number of laws designed to suppress votes. Everywhere Republicans have implemented Voter ID laws they came accompanied by several others that have the cumulative effect of suppressing votes, not eliminating fraud.
Never once has a “Voter ID” law been passed that didn’t include several other laws not involving ID designed to suppress votes.
Name one, and I don’t mean fictional ‘poll taxes’.
The original comment before it had been Lykoffed said that a national ID was already in existence and COULD be used for voter ID. It could also be used for a number of other unintended things. The key is the information stored on that little gold chip and who has access and to what degree or level. The second comment referred to the finding released this morning that former Attorney General Lynch had OK’d use of information gathered under the stated reason of terrorism (eaves dropping without a warrant) and th einformation gathered could be used by not only the federal intelligence agency level but all levels of law enforcement and other interested parties.
You will remember the big push from the feds prior to November 8th to nationalize voting? To ensure safety from hacking? I almost choked with laughter typing this part. Access to that information means that information could be changed – just enough… a smidgin there and a smidgen here. it would also give access to all your otheer information IF that national ID card, the most common form of which is a drivers license from the home State, was used for voter ID.
All this carrying on about the Russians? Is it a crime in Russia to hack US computers? Not that I know about. Is it a crime for a Russian or other foreign national to influence elections with money? Go read the rules on money as free speech again. But it makes me wonder why our last adminsitration was so hot to give control of the internet to a multinational whatever.
On the other hand voter ID is needed for a number of reason. Legitimacy of the voter, have they voted elsewhere or even registered elseqwhere, So what does the rule book say? Voting is a responsbility of the States and the operation of a the voting procedure is a respnsibility of the State(s)
Now tie the two together and ask where does federal interes stop and states right of control begin.
All a matter of trust and if you don’t trust either.? That is what recall is for.
I’ll start with a summary of the 56 items rushed through in North Carolina, later found unconstitutional. I’m not asking you to accept their racist intent yet. I’ll first ask you to agree that there’s a whole lot there than simple Voter ID before we get to the next lesson. http://nc-democracy.org/downloads/NewVotingLawSummaryAug2013.pdf
There is absolutely nothing on that list that’s going to prevent you from voting, or generate more than a nuisance impediment to you voting. You cannot register at age 17! How intolerable!. Either you didn’t read the list, or you have no conception of what were ordinary standards and practices in maintaining a voter roll and distributing absentee ballots ca. 1985, or you didn’t think anyone would look at the link.
I read the entire list. I was first trying to establish that these alleged ID laws are always accompanied by other laws as well that have a specific effect. I’ll be happy to get into the how. First I’m looking for even a basic understanding that there is more here than preventing Voter fraud which despite the claims of the President is almost non-existent.
Personally I would suspect it’s primarily a part of the 100 year old effort to set aside the Constitution and gain 100% control by somehow legitimizing a socialist autocracy.
However it is a true that as technology progresses the need to legitimize and verify legal voters is more important and more needed. The very suspect mail in ballots when ballots are sent out intentionally to unverified bogus addresses are proof of that.
National ID since it is already being used is the fastest way but is it the right way. I’m wondering about national registration from the eligible voters pool and some way of cross checking for incidents of multiple voting and let’s not forget illegal soft money contributions.
Not an easy nut to crack but the problem isn’t going to go away and we don’t want any Acorns when we’re paying for pecans.
Thank you Michael. You are who I thought you were.
Another Blog? Or before that?
I’m not saying you are an individual I remember from a previous encounter. I’m saying your views have allowed me to categorize you, justifying my initial impression.
enigmainblackcom – even though your listicle is editorialized, there is nothing out of line in it. For instance, AZ does not allow straight party voting. I just cannot see how a reasonable judge would find them all unConstitutional.
Let’s imagine (as was the case) that the North Carolina legislature specifically researched minority voting habits and designed laws to impede their vote based on their research. I’m not saying that everything among those 56 items is unconstitutional. The goal and effect is. Arizona by the way has given us the “papers please” laws which of course was found unconstitutional as well.
enigmainblackcom – the reason the AZ was found Unconstitutional for federal elections is that they do not control federal elections. It is Constitutional on state elections and they are held at the same time. We tried term limits on our Senators and Congressmen and lost on the same grounds. At least we gave it a shot.
The reason in North Carolina was that the laws were specifically tailored to inhibit minority voting.
Alabama just reduced the number of locations in only heavily minority districts where a drivers license could be obtained to one per county and reduced working hours to during the week only a few days a week.
I have news for you: in non-metropolitan counties in New York, there is one and only one location to get your driver’s license renewed, your car registered, &c. What are you going to tell me, that it’s all a dirty trick to harass the 3% of population in such counties who are black?
It’s not a “non-truth bubble” when you don’t rebut the assertions and counter arguments of your intellectual opponents. You’ve cited examples that we’ve challenged and your response is to cite more examples as though the others you mentioned never existed. Throwing everything up against the wall to see if it sticks isn’t argument, it’s desperation.
If you could be more specific, I could be as well. I haven’t seen what I’ve said refuted by facts as much as by either denial of its existence or dismissal as simply being lies. I would be happy to stick to as few topics as possible to keep my message from being lost but am being asked to respond to any number of things that amazingly aren’t acknowledged as true despite much evidence.
Maybe I’ll try another approach. I’ll ask what type of evidence would be acceptable as to what I assert and then provide it if at all reasonable. Most everything I’m saying is well documented. Just disbelieved.
I haven’t seen what I’ve said refuted by facts as much as by either denial of its existence or dismissal as simply being lies.
You’ve lied repeatedly. Your list of ‘voter suppression;’ measures is utter humbug. You might as well have linked to your bloody grocery list; that would be about as relevant. You’ve chuffered about ‘poll taxes’ which have not for 50 years been in force anywhere in any kind of electoral contest. Then you complained about the reduction in the number of application sites, as if it were normal for a board or elections or county clerk to have branch offices. The average non-metropolitan county in Alabama has a population of about 53,000. That in New York is 73,000, where you still have only one clerk’s office per county.
Cite to me something peer reviewed.
You’ll forgive me as I’m in the middle of several conversations all across the board on related subjects. What would you like me to support by peer reviewed material? I’m not sure whether everything lends itself to having handy peer reviewed material but I’ll give it a shot.
enigimainblackcom – you are aware that you need photo ID to get into the DoJ? They are the same people who thought you didn’t need ID to vote. Now AZ, where I live, all state elections you are required to have ID, federal elections no. However, since they seem to be held on the same day, in the same place and on the same ballot, the point is moot, unless we hold a special federal election. We might to replace McCain when he dies.
BTW, the DNC required photo ID at it national convention. Funny that.
I’m not especially concerned about the ID aspect of the laws being passed but that’s me. I can’t see how the poll tax aspect associated with obtaining one in many cases can be ignored, that’s not me it’s the Constitution. What I do go all in on is all the numerous other laws being passed under the name of ID which have nothing to do with preventing fraud but stopping certain voters.
There is no poll tax. Nor is there a ‘poll tax aspect’.
Now you’re becoming Clintonesque (Bill) by quibbling over the definition. If I’m a poor person and the costs associated with voting range hypothetically from $12 in Virginia to upwards of $60 in other situations. What would you like to call it? It falls squarely within my definition of poll tax.
Lessee, you need an address to register to vote. Hundreds of $ a month in rent. You need to get to the polls. Cars cost money; amortizing purchase costs, gasoline, repairs, insurance that’s $700 a month. Well, you could move to an area where the polling places are within walking distance. Of course, densely settled areas have higher rents; mo’ money. You have to buy clothes to go to the polls, or they’ll arrest you for indecent exposure. And so on…
This is silly. A picture identification is a one-off or infrequent charge utile in a variety of circumstances. A poll tax has to be paid annually and it gets you one thing: a berth at the polling station.
Your remarks boil down to one thing: that some impediment in living that you can imagine is intolerable if it might have an impact on your preferred client group. That’s it’s too uncommon to be socially significant seems not to occur to you and when the dimensions of the problem are demonstrated, you just jump to another contrived complaint.
enigmainblackcom – when you move away from home your mom probably gave you your birth certificate at some point. I know my mom did. The fact that we both lost it does not make it’s replacement a poll tax.
“Both parties are complicit in the hyper mass incarceration of minorities.”
*******************
While it is true that America incarcerates more of its population than most other countries, it’s also true that the American justice system is one of the world’s most respected. And it is also true that minorities are over-represented in prison populations. But where is the evidence that sentencing is racially-biased? Tell me about a recent case where credible evidence suggests the sentencing judge used race as a criterion? Is it mere numbers? If so, is it likewise gender-biased because far more males are incarcerated than women? Is it age-biased since most criminals are between the ages of 26-40? We have a serious incarceration problem to be sure, but the issue isn’t too many incarcerated individuals, it’s far too few since much of crime — and especially murder — goes unsolved.
One current example is the disparity in sentencing for the possession of crack cocaine vs. powdered cocaine. One was more likely to be possessed by minorities and the penalty was until recently an average of 100 times more severe. Recent reductions which some say are to be heralded have reduced the disparity to 18:1. There is a bias in sentencing for similar crimes. In the schools minorities are far more likely to receive suspension, expulsion and/or criminal justice referrals for things not handled the same way on average for white students. At Stanford a white athlete was basically given a slap on the wrist for sexual assault. The President brags about his ability to “grab ’em in the pussy.” That’s a small part of the disparity that exists. There are any number of studies demonstrating the racial bias of our judicial system. I’ll bet you could Google some with very little effort on your part. Or you could be like some and consider it all lies?
Soi a little logic. Stanford gave preferences to whites. Chelsea Clinton went to Stanford and is white. Chelsea Clinton went to Berkely and received a Doctorate, Therefore all California schools are racist.
How to check the logic. Chelsea Clinton’s parent were sexists and victimizers of women. Chelsea Clintons’s parent did not attend Stanford. Therefore Chelsea Clinton is not a sexist victimizer of women.
OR….The Clintons are Democrats. The Democrat Party has imploded and exploded. Who will pick up the pieces? Don’t look at me ask a follower of Hobbes.
Welcome Michael to the discussion. I’ll introduce a Latin term here, Non-Sequitur.”Feel free to look it up. What you might infer is from the case is that if you’re a white, male athlete; you’re far more likely to be given the doubt by a white judge concerned about what punishment might do to your future.
Black politicians ca. 1986 lobbied for harsher sentences for trading in crack cocaine because of its addictive properties and because it was ravaging black neighborhoods. Half a generation later, SJWs appear on the scene accusing state legislators of raaaacism for acceding to positions which were promoted by black pols. Everyone’s head is spinning.
You do realize that about 20% of those in prison are there on a bill for which a drug charge was the top count? Or that cocaine and heroin account for perhaps a quarter of all drug arrests? The distinction between crack and powdered cocaine is an unimportant vector in determining the racial composition of the prison sentence.
prison census.
It took me thirty seconds to dispute your assertion that there is no race component. Likely far shorter than it took you to imagine it. Combine that with what neighborhoods police choose to vigorously patrol with policies like “Stop & Frisk.” Statistics have shown that white people stopped were more likely to be carrying drugs or weapons yet efforts are focused on minority neighborhoods. I’m certain you’ll see this as more lies. http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2010/08/03/data-show-racial-disparity-in-crack-sentencing
“No race component’ to what? You have 5% of your prison census in there for possession or sale of heroin or cocaine. The share in for cocaine is smaller than that and the share in for crack cocaine is smaller still. This fanciful ‘sentencing disparity’ is not why the prison census is disproportionately black. The prison census is disproportionately black because about 30% of the notable property crimes and about 50% of the notable violent crimes are committed by blacks. That’s just where we are as a society.
Police actually doing their jobs invest in patrolling black neighborhoods because those neighborhoods have (1) more hoodlums and (2) more promiscuous hoodlums. I grew up in a town where the police go through the motions about patrolling the slums. The result is that you have a homicide rate of 2.4 per 100,000 in the Genesee Valley, bar for the 10% or so who live in central Rochester, where the homicide rate is 35 per 100,000. By contrast, the (pre diBlasio) homicide rate in Harlem was about 8.5 per 100,000. Failing to vigorously patrol the slums means dead blacks.
Lee Atwater would be proud! Apparently the only thing working against black people is black people. Therefore nobody else has any responsibility for the situation, its causes and implementing solutions. For no particular reason I note that crime fell in New York after Stop & Frisk was ended. https://www.brennancenter.org/blog/ending-new-yorks-stop-and-frisk-did-not-increase-crime
Lee Atwater? He was a Republican campaign technician. He died of cancer 25 years ago. He never worked in law enforcement. Do you read anything but garbled talking points?
Why are you citing the Brennan Center? They’re an advocacy group, not a reputable student of social statistics. They’re quite hostile to law enforcement tout court.
Yes, I’m afraid that people who commit murders and robberies are responsible for the murders and robberies they commit. That the population which does that is disproportionately black might be embarrassing to some, but that social fact imposes no obligations on law enforcement or the public. The business of law enforcement is to enforce the law without fear or favor. Let the chips fall where they may.
I cite Lee Atwater because his policies were adopted by Nixon and Bush. His widow was quite warmly received at the most recent RNC. Are suggesting because he’s dead his impact still being felt. Much of Trump’s campaign could have been modeled after Atwater although Bannon is as likely as source.
I cited the Brennan Center because I found the facts there within 30 seconds. Are you suggesting anything there is incorrect or are you giving yourself cause to dismiss them because of the source?
Regarding certain populations being found guilty of more crimes. I’m sure it has no correlation to where one is looking for crimes and the conditions that placed them there.
I cite Lee Atwater because his policies were adopted by Nixon and Bush.
He had no policies. He was a campaign technician. He had ad campaigns, not policies. Richard Nixon ‘adopted’ nothing of Atwater’s. Lee Atwater was all of 21 years old at the time of Nixon’s last electoral campaign and did not work in a professional capacity on any of Nixon’s campaigns. He did work for politicians in South Carolina, but Mr. Nixon had retired to California by that time. George Bush ‘adopted’ nothing of Atwater’s either, other than his ideas on electioneering in 1988. You fancy Trump ‘modeled’ his campaign on Atwater’s ideas? Atwater died in 1991. He would not recognize any of the media channels of which Trump was making use.
As for the Brennan Center, they’re simply not reputable.
Incarceration statistics, arrest statistics, collations of crime reports, survey research on crime victims all paint the same picture: there are higher perpetration and victimization rates in black populations. The methodology by which the question is immaterial. That’s the social reality. The difference in propensities is more than 6 to 1 for homicide and about 2.5 to 1 for property crimes tracked (burglary, auto theft). This isn’t some esoteric piece of information. Look at a map where homicides occur in a city with which you are familiar. You fancy suburban residents are driving their pick up trucks into central Rochester to shoot 25 year old blacks on Jefferson Avenue, you’re just being foolish.
enigmainblackcom – the only student I ever took a gun away from in the classroom was black. Does that make you feel better or worse?
I have no opinion about that individual situation. I think he shouldn’t have had a gun in the first place. Most of the school shootings by students in the nation are by white kids. I don’t feel better or worse about that either.
Most of the school shootings by students in the nation are by white kids. I don’t feel better or worse about that either.
About 63% of the population is white. It’s really not terribly anomalous that ‘most of…’ are white, or that significant.
I agree that it along with the original question about the black student a gun was taken from was insignificant.
enigmainblackcom – it is not insignificant if it is your classroom and your life.
It didn’t have any significance to me that the individual was black nor would it had he been white. What would you like me to infer from a single incident?
enigmainblack – using your highly developed sense of racial injustice, what do you think happened to the youth?
I sense just a bit of sarcasm in that “highly developed sense of racial injustice” but I’ll answer away. First there is no monolithic “youth.” The black youth I mostly see and come in contact with are striving to become successful, attaining degrees and spreading out into myriad fields and professions. Because I’m part of an alumni group I’m aware of the accomplishments of their children and spread those of mine. I see them taking leadership roles in church, going into the military, becoming police officers. I see many excelling despite there not always not being a level playing field.
When I look at the schools located physically in the black community, I see a disparity in resources, in books and investment. There is also a different treatment of minority students for similar offenses while in school. Minority students are more likely to be suspended or expelled or referred to the criminal justice system.
A story a former Vice-Principal tells that happened in her school was that a black boy having a problem with truancy was referred (with his mother’s permission) to the school resource officer who threatened him. I think the parent was trying but didn’t know to say no to that path. At the same time a white male student who had been caught dealing drugs in the school was channeled into various programs not involving law enforcement because he deserved a “second chance.” That story is anecdotal, there is much documentation of the disparity of treatment of minority children if one is willing to look. That Vice-Principal ultimately resigned and formed a non-profit group, “Being Black at School” to address the disparity.
Additionally, much has been said about the absence of black men in families and the community. There is a direct relationship (although not the only cause) to the mass incarceration spoken of earlier. Again in my circles I see fathers doing the best they can for their families. I watch my son and his circle of friends. Complete families trying to make it.
Now of course there are those youth that all of us are rightfully afraid of. Some of them are black, all races are represented. We hear about the Chicago violence and gangs but it’s never mentioned to my knowledge that there are dozens of gangs there including several white ones. There is a difference in how black youth are portrayed when they do wrong. Black kids are seen in their mug shots, white kids in their yearbook photo in a tie.
Where they live is a factor as well. The municipal planning that created the inner-cities was not coincidence. Red-lining and the inability to buy homes in other than designated areas where large populations are condensed into small areas. Major grocery stores generally aren’t located there so residents have to drive longer ways or pay more at mom & pop stores. Car insurance costs are higher because insurance companies are allowed to price by zip code. Nobody talks about the tax on being poor when everything costs more. There is a history of job discrimination in this country which is a factor in the high unemployment rate. With the new administration it becomes less likely that the Justice system will even look at discrimination in the workplace. The kids we’re afraid of maybe once had aspirations but found no way out.
They live in some instances where they are suspected of crimes for merely existing. Any black person understands the terms, “walking while black” or “driving while black.” Senator Tim Scott (R) of South Carolina has tales of the times he’s been stopped even while wearing his Senator pin by the Capitol Police paid to protect him. My highly developed sense comes from the knowledge that none of us is immune.
My son went to high school in Winter Park, FL a toney mostly white suburb and we lived two blocks from Winter Park High School. He of course walked to school. When a senior on some days his first class was at 10:00 am. He was stopped one day entering the school grounds, detained by a police officer who refused to believe his story. Taken to the office where he had to prove he was telling the truth and made late for his class. Something you’ll never experience in the same way is learning that no matter where you live, where you send your kids to school, you are unable to protect them from those who see them as a threat or a criminal. Of course there were dozens of white kids with similar schedules who didn’t get detained by police while heading to school. When I talked to the police Lieutenant that supervised the officer he said they were, “doing my son a favor by giving him a ride to school.”
I don’t see prejudice and racial injustice under every rock and around every corner. When it’s perfectly clear like in Voter Suppression and the way Stop & Frisk is administered, I will not be silent. There is tons of data, lots of documentation. I believe that those that do not see simply choose not to.
enigmainblackcom – with your highly tuned sense of racial injustice what do you think happened to the student that I took the gun away from?
I have no idea. If the NRA had its way they might hand it back to him.
enigmainblackcom – you are dodging the question. Come on!!!
I don’t know isn’t a dodge. Amazingly, I wasn’t there and can’t read your mind. I confess I regretted saying the NRA would have given the gun back. My memory (not my finely honed sense of racial sensitivity) tells me that the NRA isn’t always in favor of people having guns. In California, Governor Ronald Reagan and the NRA supported gun control as it applied to the Black Panthers although I am not aware of any such concern about all the currently heavily armed right wing militia groups.
enigmainblackcom – since you are unable to deal with the problem as a reality, how about a hypothetical?
Young black male brings gun to school, starts showing it off to his classmates. Teacher sees it, take the gun away from him. What should happen to the student?
If I were the principal I’d contact law enforcement to determine if any laws were broken. Review school policy to consider options including suspension and expulsion. I would like to have the student interviewed to find out why (fear of another student, bullying, plan to do whatever?)
enigmainblackcom – carrying a weapon on campus is expulsion. It’s nice you are going the SJW route. Carrying a concealed weapon (at that time) was illegal. Does that help?
Nor the left wing militia groups which control territory and act as a quasi government. Crips and Bloods come to mind right off the bat with no trouble. Those right wing groups you mention are a left wing definition using PC and are not right wing by any factual historical definition. Nor are they militia which is a legal State formation of military units (not the National Guard as their name implies they are federal reserves paid for, equipped, and trained under federal regulations) Most of those so called right wingers are oriented to Nationial Socialist ideals and therefore are of the LEFT along with International Socialists and Secular Regressives.
When you straighten out the definitions and put the center where it belongs instead the center of the left you find the right wing OF the left are RINO’s and then comes in a Constitutional Republic the center which is the constitution and self governing independent free thinking citizens in and around that center as the ultimate source of power and waaayyyyyy offf to the extreme right you find anarchists in one form or another who believe in zero government or a much smaller government at best …and hermits.
Just because the left wing press keeps bleasting that propaganda doesn’t make it true.
for example the DINO’s are Democrats who a few months ago stated we are no longer Democrats we are Socialists. Besides the former Democrats are all over the place in multiple splinters. I
Howeveer I know see one fo the other defintiions came true . The socialist left is statist, corporatist and union leaders in it’s makeup ever since the 1920s and 1930’s. Now the union members have turned their backs on union leaders and joined the true center of the country and Constitutional Republic.
So having gone over that and pointing out the success parts. we can kill that right wing militia hollyweed propaganda crap of the lame stream and no longer major media and get back to reality. and there I have no problem with your comments but am rather supportive including the New Democrat Party by whatever name they end up using.
Never mind the clonettes of the left wing secular regressive programmed chorus. There way out there in the far left in looney clooney land and of not much consequence especially after 2017 and 2018 elections but that’s where we should be focusing
Like us we have some fence mending and party building and coalition building to accomplish in the realm of reality the rest of these yo yo ding dongs with their daily version fo The Party’s Truth should be monitored but never taken seriously. It’s just Carville and Lykoff and Soros and Pelosi’s and Schumers version – with daily changes.
Enigma,
I would suggest you ignore Paul S.
He pretends to have arguments, but really, his responses are just quips; what he thinks are clever rejoinders yet offer nothing of substance.
At Stanford a white athlete was basically given a slap on the wrist for sexual assault.
They were both drunk. She was drunker than he was, so was not held responsible for leaving the social gathering with him.
Oh, he was drunk. I’m sorry, all is forgiven!
No. It was deemed a sexual assault because she was intoxicated and not capable of legal consent. They were collared by passers-by. He didn’t carry her out there. She went with him, but she was absolutely falling down blotto and passed out while he was on top of her.
Or maybe it was sexual assault because it was sexual assault. If it were your daughter involved would you feel the same?
Do you need to leave an inane reply to every thing said to you? Couldn’t you just once say something that wasn’t fundamentally obfuscatory?
I was wondering if your perspective might differ if you identified more with the victim. I am guilty of occasional snark when having to prove information either obvious or readily available. As an example unrelated to this discussion. Mitch McConnell, Ted Cruz and Sean Spicer all standing behind President Trump’s statement about “millions of illegals” keeping him from winning the popular vote are not deserving of a serious response.
These macro examples you cite fall apart when reviewing the individual cases since prior offenses and prior negative contacts are not considered in the raw figures. However, they are used by every punishing entity. Give me a recent example of a sentencing judge using race as a criterion for punishment. And thanks for avoiding my questions about gender and age discrimination in sentencing. Not your oxen, I suppose.
If it were as obvious as Judges claiming from the bench that race was the basis for their decision. It would be easier to weed out. It’s why collective evidence is of value. I’ll go back and look for your gender/age question. I’m trying to answer the deniers of fact as quickly as possible and missed it.
I suspect (not operating based on facts here, just opinion) that there is a sentencing bias based on gender. Age I don’t have an opinion except that I suspect that racial comparisons by age would show similar inequity.
enigma, You can thank Tip O’Neill for the crack v powder cocaine disparity. You remember Tip? He was a fat, shanty Irish, alcoholic, DEMOCRAT and Speaker of the House. The reason Tip pushed it? Len Bias, the Celtics #1 draft pick, blew his heart out smoking crack and all his Celtic fans constituents were beside themselves. You obviously know little history, law, or economics. But, you do know Obama commuted more sentences than the last 9 Presidents COMBINED and most were crack cocaine inmates. And although never covered by the press, many were violent offenders. Obama lied when he said none were violent.
I can’t speak to Tip O’Neil’s role. He is not Congress that passed the initial laws nor was he President Reagan that signed it. If President Obama commuted sentences that were 100 times the amount for a white drug user. Is that a problem. Unfortunately that only applied to Federal prisoners and the states are still contributing heavily to the coffers of Private Prisons.
“I can’t speak to Tip O’Neil’s role” LOL! Tip O’Neill PUSHED and PASSED the law. Reagan merely signed it. My wife was a Federal PO and the sentencing guidelines were draconian and racist. But, they were PUSHED AND PASSED by Dems and changed to fair guidelines by Republicans. So, there’s that! You are a lightweight. And, “Private Prisons” is another tell. Have you gotten double digits on comments @ your lame blog yet? Instead of commenting and showing your ignorance of history, go read some books. I’ll give you a reading list if you like.
Tip O’Neil PUSHED AND PASSED “the initial laws.” If you are going to talk out of your ass please at least stand on your head.
The sentencing guidelines were not racist. There was a clear policy choice to treat crack more severely because of its addictive properties.
We’ll have to disagree on the racist part. Can we agree they were draconian? My wife was a sentencing guidelines expert in the 7th Circuit. She is no bleeding heart. The sentences were incredibly harsh and although crack is more addictive than powder, the extreme disparity was not justified and the Supreme Court agreed. Ironically, it was a case out of her court that made it to SCOTUS and changed the sentencing guidelines.
All I’m saying is that Tip did not pass the law individually. He had many partners and I can’t speak to his specific role. I’d also say your depiction of the new 18:1 ratio as “fair” would be highly dependent on one’s point of view. They’re just not as racist and draconian.
BTW, I’m pretty comfortable with my grounding in history. People like you played a big role. My “lame blog” does just fine. The majority of comments take place on my individual Facebook page. It has existed for almost 10 months, garnered just over 27,000 hits so far and has just over 1,400 followers. I don’t attempt to measure those stats or compare them. It is what it is. I’d love to see your reading list. You show me yours and I’ll show you mine.
I wish you luck on your blog.
Thank you!
He was the Speaker of the House for six of the eight years Ronald Reagan was in office. All told he was in Congress for 34 years. Nothing got to the floor of the House of Representatives that he didn’t schedule.
Desperate, We need to ignore this lightweight, vapid, troll.
Not saying he didn’t have a role, even a major one. I just don’t have personal knowledge of what it was. Also, most bills have supporters outside the Congress whether it be lobbyists or outside groups. In 1986 I wasn’t politically aware enough to recall the environment. I’ve grown.
enigma, “I don’t have personal knowledge.” WTF?? I don’t have personal knowledge of most of history or current events. That’s why I read. enigma, I’m a straight shooter. Even most of those who dislike me[that’s a LONG line] will say that. I was a high school history teacher and as I stated previously, my wife was a Federal PO when those guidelines were passed. She became an expert on them. She HATED them, and although a Dem, faulted O’Neil for what he did. And, while I voted for Obama the fist time, my wife voted for him twice. She agreed w/ many of his commutations of crack inmates. But, one inmate that was commuted was an inmate she knew and KNEW he was a violent offender. So, my wife, who can be a bulldog, researched many of the commutations, although not nearly all of them. She found a disturbing number of violent offenders. As PaulS wrote earlier, 4 were cartel members. Obama claimed repeatedly no violent offenders were commuted, and that is a flat ass lie.
We are in large part simpatico on the crack sentencing guidelines. But, “Those who don’t understand history are doomed to repeat it.” The great Jackie Robinson repeatedly warned black voters to not become slaves to either party. He saw the signs of black voters becoming Dem voters no matter what and knew his people who be crapped on when that happened. While I don’t agree w/ the woman who is the topic of this post, I understand her anger. Blacks need to diversify. They should consider forming their own party. We need more than 2!
I am on record over the years as saying we need more black commenters here. But, you have to step up your game if you want credibility. I’ll have your back when you’re righteous. I’ll rip you a new one when you’re not.
Nick:
Your take on the federal sentencing guidelines is correct. Some judges even resigned rather than follow them and they were racist in the sense they had a disparate impact on A-A defendants by intentional design. They were passed by Democrats and mitigated by Republicans and finally made advisory by the Supreme Court in United States v. Booker.
I agree wholeheartedly that blacks, Hispanics, no minority should simply give their allegiance to a political party. It would be a wonderful thing if there were a viable alternate party that valued me and my people. It will be impossible to even consider the Republican Party while they actively work to suppress Black votes. When along partisan lines the Supreme Court gutted the enforcement powers of the Voter Rights Act. It took Texas, North Carolina and Louisiana less than a day to start working to deny a percentage of black and Hispanic voters that ability. Trump’s history of racism (see Federal Lawsuits for discrimination, Central Park Five, “The Blacks”), his appointment of Jeff Sessions, his baseless assertion of widespread voter fraud by illegals make supporting him a non-starter. While the Party works to negate my vote they can’t possibly offer me anything. Those that deny that it is occurring are convincing no one but themselves and further alienating those like me. They scream “Voter ID” and totally, obtusely disregard all the other related actions and their intended goals.The Green Party and other major Parties at this time cannot win and ar not a viable alternative. I would love to have an option, I remain open to the possibility although I don’t see one anywhere on the horizon.
enigmainblackcom – if, as you say, the Republicans are suppressing your vote, do you think they would do that if you were voting Republican?
These are the Social Science areas
Philosophy
History
Political sciences
Geography
Economics
Physcology
Sociology
Anthropology
add Social Workers
and teachers with no core skills in something else.
Some lists also include journalists meaning reporters but some of them are really actors.
Of these the top paying jobs are all in the field of economics. the lowest paid are teachers and social workers and those two also attract the bottom fifth in terms of GPA from the high schools. The highest paid educators are those who also coach major University sports teams.
However Political Science depends on what sort of job you snare. Federal level politicians rarely retire worth less than a million plus even Bernie Sanders with his wife’s money, houses etc. thrown in is well over a million.
I look to the example of how they treat the Log Cabin Republicans. That perhaps agree with them fiscally and hope to promote change from the inside. Every four years the Republican Platform and their leaders show disdain for the LGBT community. I think they would continue to do just what they are doing.
enigmainblackcom – I never read the party platforms. That is just propaganda for the masses. On the federal level I have three votes, I listen to what the candidates say and make my decision. Sometimes I have to hold my nose when I vote. Sometimes, like this year, I don’t vote for either person, they are both too disgusting. I have even written in Mickey Mouse as a candidate until I heard last year they were not counting Mickey’s votes.
No one enacts the party platform.
It’s far more than the platform. The legislation passed (especially in the House) and statements made by Republican leaders make it clear that they… and we are not welcome.
He lived to be 82 years old and was employed without interruption from 1937 to 1987. If he was a drunk, he was quite a phenomenon. He also had no history with grisly mishaps and domestic scandal a la Ted Kennedy.
O’Neill’s father was a skilled worker and a wheel in the local Democratic Party. O’Neill himself never practiced law, but he was a member of the bar. Not shanty Irish.
“If he was a drunk.” LOL. The nose doesn’t lie, Desperate. I have family in Tip’s old district. Tip was the consummate, glad handing, back slapping, alcoholic, Irish, Boston pol.
Nick – the nose does lie. Tip had the same condition Ted Kennedy had, rosacea. My sister has it and she does not drink. Now he can still drink, but the condition will not change regardless of the amount of alcohol taken in or not taken in.
Paul,
I had rosacea really bad for about 10 years. My cheeks were bright red and they burned. I saw a Functional Medicine doctor who had me remove gluten and all dairy from my diet and dealt with the gut dysbiosis. My cheeks look normal now. Prior to seeing her, I tracked my diet to no avail (though I never tried eliminating anything for longer than a week) and saw multiple dermatologists who put me on all kinds of creams and antibiotics, which only slightly reduced the redness but I still had acne. They said no one knows what causes rosacea and that there was no cure. Phah!
mespo, US v Booker originated in the Western District of Wisconsin, where my bride worked for 25 years.
I saw that.
Nick – four of Obama latest releases from prison were cartel members.
People who babble about ‘mass incarceration’ object to any incarceration.
In truth, 60% of those sentenced receive alternative to incarceration or brief stays in county jails. About 40% are remanded to state prisons. The mean time served in state prison is about 30 months ‘ere parole or release.
A little more transparency in federal sentencing but you’re right on the beam for state institutions.
We could ask Tunisia if she would be in fear if she was a Trump supporter and a democrat lit her hair on fire?
https://youtu.be/eY5WTDgV4ik
Did someone running for President offer to pay the legal expenses for a non-Trump supporter who set fire to a Trump supporter’s hair? I must have missed that news cycle.
What legal expenses?
It’s been open season on Trump supporters for over a year,
With very few arrests.
https://youtu.be/44uzVj_Fmaw
Do you work for a Trump subsidiary or something?
The fear I understand. I have never been able to get out of my mind the young black man who was assaulted by the old white codger (I’m one of those too) at one of Trump’s rallies after Trump promised to pay the legal expenses for anyone that did what that white man did. As we are seeing, Trump is behaving about the same as president as he did on the campaign trail. It is reasonable to assume that we will see more similar assaults on anti-Trump protesters, egged on by the man who is now President.
Kind of ironic: “white people need to listen to their black neighbors about their experiences.”
In Idaho there are no black neighbors. Maybe a few, very few, in Boise.
The left is shattered and splintered and only the Latino Community and the Black Community has woken up and realized they are never going to get anything from the secular progressive socialist extremists. If the black community takes over the Democrats and renames it to the New Democrats for example they can gather up those not in denial and make something either with the Latinos or in a coalition with the Latinos or some of them. The left wing extremists are going to do what Soros and company tells them to do and get now where. That’s one goal accomplished.
A good many Jews saw the handwriting on the wall they will be looking for a home and the Asians will as usual choose wisely.
So what about the also in denial Repuiblicans In Name Only who are convinced they won but also got their party smashed and lost their position as right wing of the left. The Repiublican Party belongs to to factions now Trump and the moderate centrist supporters of the Constitution and Constitutional Government with a strong representative democracy base and two infrastructures in place across the nation. The smart Republicans spent a slot of time and effort down ballot and the Trumpers built a strong infrastructure as well. Add to that a huge showing of support from those previously not represented by anyone and your looking at one smart move which is form not the New Republicans but the Constitutional Republic Party although and this is a key point again IN coalition with Asians, Jewish culture, Blue Dog Democrats , and some of the Black Community and Latino Community. Those few RINOs still in denial can go ask Soros for marching orders.
How easy is it to form these partys? No hard at all. it only takes the currently elected individuals to opt to change their party affiliation.
The trick is plan and choose wisely which gives we Constitutionalists a strong lead position and then demonstrate real progress by among other things including those who lean that way and not towards socialism and let the far left continue to do whatever ….or something.
And that’s the next step or next phase for the counter revolution and best of all we have the military and their oath of office on our side as back up and now a transformation of DHS can be achieved to make them the same and not some neo-fascist schutz staffel.
Lots of work to do time to roll up sleeves and keep the momentum going. There’s lots of grass root foundation elections in 2017 and then much more to gain in 2018.
Did I forget the women. No saved them for last. Choice is easy. Side with the victimizing left wing extremists or side with gaining full citizenship rights. 51% of the nation and you deserve better than a life under a George Soros planned future as baby factories.
http://www.duluthnewstribune.com/news/politics/4204771-trump-signs-order-move-keystone-dakota-access-pipelines-forward Pipelines are going forward, Goldman’s economic agenda is going forward and Exxon’s foreign policy (grab OIL) is going forward. What more could we want. Ah, maybe a little torture from Pompeo and the end of Medicare.
I fear for those protestors.
Another special snowflake bites the dust. What drivel!!!
I got an Obama pardon and am leaving my prison today. I will go to Florida. When I get there tonight I will comment on what ever is on the topic here. Live Free Or Die.
Washington DC is a good town, if not the best, for colleges and universities to be located. But is snows in DC and you have snowflakes. Lots. One of our issues is dealing with snowflakes, but young and old. I say to the one from NH: Live Free Or Die! And I am not Madonna talking.
I don’t know that GWU hosting this event will add to its reputation. A more suitable site might have been in the back room of an organized-crime storefront. What a bunch of charlatans!
Ha! Good one!
Frankly, I hope the Democratic party is finally over. It has promoted disastrous policies of war, in economics, concerning the environment and has taken the most CYNICAL position possible on protecting various groups. This nation really doesn’t need two corporate parties. Good riddance!
That said, let me explain something about people’s fears. I believe these fears have a real basis in fact. What is shameful about the Democratic party and its adherents is that they never seemed to worry about these same facts until they directly (or potentially) effected them personally.
So, let’s say Tunisia fled to Libya during Obama’s and Clinton’s destruction of that society. Would she have been safe there? No. Let’s take all the money Clinton and Obama has received from Saudi Arabia and Qatar. As a female would Tunisia be safe there? No. Would a person who is a member of the LBGTQ community be safe in many of the nations who are the US’s BFF in war? HE*& no!
Basically, as long as the lives being destroyed were in other nations, those lives, whether they were black or white didn’t matter to Democrats. It didn’t matter if we allied and our leaders took campaign bribes from nations which behead gay men and women and want to lop off women’s heads for driving. It’s a o.k. It’s no concern to these fine people.
Well, now the actions taken overseas are coming home for the upper class.
At home, it was fine to destroy the working class and people in poverty so the upper class could make a buck. That wasn’t bad, but now it’s is personal. This kind of “morality” is sickening. It shocks the conscience. To act as a fawning, sycophant to war and financial criminals as long as it didn’t effect you is no ethical stance at all.
We need a party that counts this earth, the creatures who live on it and its many peoples as important. The Democrats can spout about how “sensitive” they are, but not everyone is an idiot who believes they care. This is a great time to create a new party and let the Democrats go about on their pretense tour. I’m not buying it and neither do a whole lot of other people.
Also, what about out and out fraud. The sad Clintons are walking away with a huge pile of cash acquired at the tax payers… not expense, but let’s say sacrifice. Looking back, there is not an issue where they wouldn’t accept profit from. The cause was not important as long as it generated cash.
Jill, as usual you speak the truth. How many of those wymen who wore vaginas at the “women’s march” cared about all the brown and black people who were decimated under Obama?
Cheers to you for keepin’ on keepin’ on
Skin color is not the issue. The issues are poverty, learning disorders, and epigenetics. Those who cannot express themselves coherently and thoughtfully are not going to get good jobs or respect from others.
An epigenetics-driven culture is one in which so much historic oppression has occurred that the culture is bound up in resentment, fear, and hate, as seems to have occurred with Zionists in Palestine as well as Native American, Black, and Latino cultures in the US and is inevitably occurring with Muslims around the world. That cycle can be stopped only by advancing civil rights around the world, not at the end of a gun but on the receiving end of caring and compassion.
Doglover wrote: “… so much historic oppression has occurred that the culture is bound up in resentment, fear, and hate… That cycle can be stopped only by advancing civil rights around the world… ”
I think the advancement of civil rights is what has contributed to the problem. People are taught that their ancestors were mistreated and they deserve better treatment. Everybody begins looking at what is owed to them and fighting for their rights rather than learning about their duties and obligations to society and one another. The civil rights movement now puts the emphasis all in the wrong place. Individuals need to learn how to practice sacrificial love for their neighbor instead of what government and the rest of society owes them. JFK had it right when he said:
John F. Kennedy’s Inaugural Address, January 20, 1961
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And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you — ask what you can do for your country.
My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.
Finally, whether you are citizens of America or citizens of the world, ask of us the same high standards of strength and sacrifice which we ask of you. With a good conscience our only sure reward, with history the final judge of our deeds, let us go forth to lead the land we love, asking His blessing and His help, but knowing that here on earth God’s work must truly be our own.
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Putting an end to negro disfranchisement, dismantling parallel school systems, rendering restrictive covenants a dead letter, and putting the fear of God (or court injunctions) into Southern police departments and courts has not generated severe problems. The thing is, for characters like Joseph Rauh, these sorts of things were a prelude to pushing foolish social engineering schemes via court decree. Read Ed Koch’s memoirs on his encounter with Rauh in Georgetown ca. 1973.
That was a great speech from a really great man, even with his woman issues. I think the problem is the party he belonged to is long gone. Somewhere along the line that organization was taken over by people like Boynton Brown. I really hope she gets the job that will insure the Dems continue to lose elections.
If only…. super-rich heirs would ask what they can do for their country, rather than spending their inherited wealth to advance their own interests or stashing it in tax havens.
Right on! Or shoving indigenous people off land like Zuckerman in Hawaii. Seriously? Who needs 700 acres?
1. Talk of ‘epigenetics’ is tommyrot.
2. A deficit of ‘civil rights’ is not a problem faced by black Americans (nor has it been since about 1971).
3. A deficit of ‘civil rights’ is not the salient problem facing Arabs on the West Bank and Gaza
4. American blacks in general are not poor on any historical or international scale. They are merely less affluent than non-blacks in this country (with personal income per capita and life expectancy similar to non-blacks ca. 1985).
5. ‘Caring’ and ‘compassion/ will do not one bloody thing to address quality of life deficits in black neighborhoods. Vigorous policing, changes in tax policy, restructuring of the schools, and restructuring the system of welfare benefits will help…some.
“Vigorous policing, changes in tax policy, restructuring of the schools, and restructuring the system of welfare benefits will help…some.”
No it won’t. The problem is learning disorders, a culture of resentment against the majority, rejection of minority folks because of their physical features.
Yes, it will.
“Learning disorders” is nonsense educratspeak. It doesn’t matter if blacks ‘resent’ the majority. They still need to work for a living and do manage to pick up employment skills, just less than social engineers fancy they should. White people’s opinions about aesthetics are of no interest and just another one one of your red herrings
The black neighborhoods in Baltimore have a homicide rate of 45 per 100,000. Blacks in New York City distributed as they are face a homicide rate in their residential neighborhood of about 8.5 per 100,000, with the worst section of the city suffering 18 per 100,000. New York City and Baltimore had equivalent levels of disorder in 1980. Now, mean homicide rates in Baltimore exceed those in NYC 7-fold. One city embarked on quality-of-life improvements, while the other decayed.
As is, one problem education suffers from is the degree to which public agency delivery renders the schools vulnerable to capture by unions, teachers’ colleges, and lawyers. Their lock can be broken by turning over public schools to philanthropies run by elected stakeholder boards. Local sheriff’s departments can maintain school subsidiaries wherein they detain and attempt to teach incorrigibles no one else wants. Private schools could be sorted into two categories – those financed by market tuition and those financed by vouchers issued by local governments. Quality control could be maintained through state regents examinations, with the state attorney-general bringing actions to relieve a given school of its franchise should students score at the bottom of metropolitan league tables in a give year. The utility of this method would be to sequester the worst students to allow the remainder in slum schools to learn, to provide transparent feedback about student performance, and to shear off the most incompetently run schools.
Property taxes promote decay in the built environment. Suspending the collection of property taxes in the least affluent census tracts (encompassing, say 15% of the metropolitan settlement) and maintaining a reduced assessment rate in another set of tracts just a shade more affluent (encompassing perhaps 5% of the metropolis) would remove a vector diminishing the quality of poor neighborhoods. Adding additional street sweeping details in those neighborhoods would assist as well.
Liberals care nothing about the effect of property taxes, incorrigibles in schools, or street hoodlums. Addressing these problems do not create more jobs for people with MEd and MSW degrees and liberal protestations of concern with the welfare of blacks are fraudulent in any case.
DesperatelySeekingSusan – you know how liberal they are if they will send their kids to an inner city school.
Another one misses the boat. The democrats were rejected for abandoning their historic support of labor for social justice (a ruse). Apparently they still don’t have any smart people who can put the clues together, which is really sad since the situation makes itself as clear as day. Duh.
They don’t give a rip about wage-earners-in-general. Such people are ‘deplorable’.
Think of the implications of the idiot ‘Southern Strategy’ meme promoted by partisan Democrats: that you’re disreputable if white Southerners vote for you (an idea that Lyndon Johnson and Hubert Humphrey would have found odd).
Indeed.
I never imagined that having a black President for 8 years would cause our country to become so racially divided. Now the white people are expected to shut up, and black women fear for their life when a white man is elected President. I want to respect the Democratic Party when I see men like John F Kennedy and Joe Lieberman, but after 8 years of Obama and now seeing this snafu, it is very hard to respect the Democratic Party.
Kennedy was a combat veteran and a capable and accomplished public speaker. He was also more of a celebrant than a critic of his country’s culture. His virtues pretty much ended there. See Mimi Alford.
Remember what Gov. Blagojevich said: “I’m blacker than Obama”. For Gov, Blago (who once had a shoe-shine job), blacks were people he knew (while BO was learning about black America by watching reruns of Soul Train). BO’s connection to the black population is that he married into it. As for his girls, since their mother appears to have rejected her working-class roots for glam bourgeois conspicuous consumption (credit provided by Tony Rezko), their connection to black life in the vernacular is their grandmother.
If she wants White people to shut their mouth how about she starts with hers.
+1000
Wish I’d said that.
Looks like another Stono Revolt has begun. I don’t think black voters are buying “we lost because of Russian hacking” meme.
I wonder if the gentleman from N.H. and his niece are aware someone born in Tunisia who emigrates to the U.S. is not considered “African American”?
Anyway, it’s a nice name, I guess.
But where are we “chic” voters, as Joy-Ann Reid calls us, going to call home?
It continues to show how both parties have exploited, and intend to continue to exploit, politics and power based on fear and division. With only “their”solution” able to protect you from the “others”.
Regardless of who you plug into the formula, it has worked since tribal times to promote centralized power at the expense of the rights of the people.
This is no different.
We will continue to see a dimishment of liberty and individual freedoms in this country regardless of which party is in power
“…how to shut their mouths if they are white…”
Substitute “black” for “white” and listen to the howls of outrage in the MSM.
We still have a double standard in racial discussion and a dishonest press.
Conservatives have learned that the playing field is so uneven in this regard that rational discussion is not even possible.
How crappy a job did her parents do that something that is, to her young mind, an abstract concept that she doesn’t fully understand, could instill that fear to begin with (and subsequently then do nothing but continue to stoke that fear instead of engendering understanding)? Yes, DT is a buffoon. So are this girl’s so-called ‘parents’. Give me a break. The insanity in this country is Out. Of. Control.