Bad Cases (and Bad Lawyers) Can Make For Bad Law

Below is my column in USA Today on the recent ruling against President Donald Trump in a civil lawsuit where his counsel sought dismissal on constitutional grounds.  It was a weak argument that made bad precedent for the Office of the President.  With yet another change in his legal team, Trump needs to focus on continuity among his legal team.  More lawyers does not necessarily translate to a stronger case. Indeed, it can undermine a case when lawyers are advancing conflicting or reckless arguments.

Here is the column:

A New York state judge this week delivered a major blow to President Trump in rejecting his effort to bar proceedings against him by a former Apprentice contestant, Summer Zervos. The case is a defamation action is linked to Zervos’ allegation of sexual harassment by Trump. In April, I wrote a column warning that Trump’s local counsel in various states were recklessly using presidential privilege and immunity arguments to try to kill various lawsuits. Now, the first ruling has come down rejecting the president’s arguments. In the meantime, Trump is fielding a growing army of lawyers in trying to silence other women who have come forward with the risk of turning this loss into  cascading failures. If so, the ultimate loser will not just be the president but his office.

Presidents have historically avoided litigation in deference to their successors.  Executive privilege and some immunities are not expressly stated in the Constitution, but rather are created through courts’ interpretations. Past presidents have studiously refrained from cases that might curtail these powers or defenses for future administrations. Trump, however, came to office with a long chain of cases dragging behind him and his lawyers have made constitutional claims with reckless abandon. There is no evidence that White House Counsel Don McGahn has asserted the interests of the White House in limiting such precedent-making arguments.

Zervos is suing Trump for a series of statements that he made concerning her allegation that he “ambushed” her at various times starting in 2007, including groping and kissing her. Since the statute of limitations had run, Trump could have avoided a lawsuit by refusing to comment or issuing circumspect denials. Instead, he labeled Zervos a liar and tweeted out her pictures as part of these attacks. That made a dead harassment case into a live defamation case.

Trump’s personal counsel have been seeking to use the fact he is president to either dismiss or delay litigation. New York State Supreme Court Justice Jennifer Schecterrightfully rejected the defense and set the course for Trump to be personally deposed — much like Bill Clinton was forced into a deposition in the Paula Jones litigation.

Trump just created new precedent that will limit not just himself but future presidents — precisely what some of us warned against. While Clinton was forced into a federal proceeding over sexual assault claims by Jones, Trump’s counsel argued that state courts are different. The result is now a bad case making bad law for future presidents.

The costs are likely only to grow in the coming weeks. The president appears to be hiring lawyers by the gross. (Well-known Republican lawyer Ted Olson reportedly turned Trump down on Tuesday). That rarely works. The president’s lawyers have repeatedly and publicly been out of sync at critical points — leading to embarrassing corrections or retractions later. The key to high-profile cases is consistency and coherence. Litigation by committee is no better than art by consensus. Adding Raphael and Da Vinci to Michelangelo would not have improved the ceiling in the Sistine. Indeed, it is doubtful it would ever have been completed.

It is not just the burgeoning number of lawyers that is the problem for Trump but the lawyers themselves. While bad cases can make bad law, so can bad lawyers. Take Trump’s long-term personal counsel Michael Cohen. Cohen has a reputation as a heavy who threatens journalists and citizens who pose any risk to Trump. He is at the center of the expanding scandal involving porn star Stormy Daniels. Cohen assumed false names and created a shell company to silence of Daniels on her alleged affair with Trump in exchange of $130,000 (which Cohen paid out of his personal funds). Trump (referred to as David Dennison in the agreement) did not sign but Cohen signed as “Essential Consultants, LLC,” the shell company that Cohen created and appears to be essentially himself.

Now, Cohen has sought to enforce the agreement to gag Daniels and hit her with $1 million penalties for every disclosure or threat to disclose information on Trump. He says said that he is considering using the money personally for a long vacation. Trump also formally entered the case — seeking to gag Daniels and hit her with as much as $20 million in penalties. No president has ever pursued such a claim and Cohen’s heavy-handed and questionable conduct could taint the case — and any precedent later set by the federal court.

In yet another front, former Playboy model Karen McDougal filed this week to get out of her non-disclosure agreement. That NDA was signed with the National Enquirer, which paid her $150,000 for her own story of an affair with Trump. The magazine then spiked the story in what is widely viewed as a “catch and kill” maneuver. Trump’s close friend, magazine chief executive David Pecker, reportedly instigated the payment to protect Trump.

Trump has long valued lawyers with pitbull, if not rabid, reputations. One lawyer appears to have been particularly influential. In March 2016, Trump reportedly asked in frustration “Where’s my Roy Cohn?” Cohn was an infamous New York lawyer who played a key role in the McCarthy hearings and various scandals. He represented Trump for many years. He was later disbarred for professional misconduct including perjury and witness tampering. He was known to threaten opponents and adopt a scorched earth approach to lawyering. Trump appears to value some of the same attributes in Cohen that he found in Cohn.

Trump, however, is no longer litigating over construction zones but constitutional spaces. Moreover, it is unlikely to work. It never has. Information, like water, tends to find its way out against even the strongest walls. In the meantime, the costs of this wall (stretching across multiple states and disputes) will continue to rise for the office of the presidency.

Jonathan Turley, a member of USA TODAY’s Board of Contributors, is the Shapiro Professor of Public Interest Law at George Washington University, where he teaches constitutional and tort law. Follow him on Twitter: @JonathanTurley

294 thoughts on “Bad Cases (and Bad Lawyers) Can Make For Bad Law”

    1. Everyone knows that quote, but do you know what it means in context, somewhat the opposite of what it says.

      1. Not everyone knows that quotation, I fear. More’s the pity.

        I had thought that I understood it, having had quite a good course about plays, including many of Shakespeare’s. But enlighten us, please.

        1. David, Diane copied a bit of an explanation from Wikipedia, but let me put this in my own words understanding that I am not an expert. This is what I remember from many years ago.

          Was the statement advocating the killing of all the lawyers or just the corrupt ones? A character wished to become king and felt that by upsetting law and order he could effectuate that desire. One of the rebels supporting him made that statement (“kill all the lawyers”) so in essence, Shakespeare was affirming the need for lawyers and judges because they provide society’s justice.

    2. From the Wikipedia article on “Let’s kill all the lawyers”:

      “Let’s kill all the lawyers” is a line from William Shakespeare’s Henry VI, Part 2, Act IV, Scene 2. The full quote is “The first thing we do, let’s kill all the lawyers”. It is among Shakespeare’s most famous lines, as well as one of his most controversial, and has been used as the title of movies and books. Shakespeare may be making a joke when character “Dick The Butcher” suggests one of the ways the band of pretenders to the throne can improve the country is to kill all the lawyers. Dick is a rough character, a killer as evil as his name implies, like the other henchmen, and this is his rough solution to his perceived societal problem. There is some disagreement with the interpretation that one of Shakespeare’s sympathetic characters would make a joke suggesting that killing lawyers would make the world better. The Florida Bar Association contends the quote was a lawyer joke.

      Henry VI, Part 2, Act IV, Scene 2

      JACK CADE. Valiant I am.

      SMITH [aside]. A must needs; for beggary is valiant.

      JACK CADE. I am able to endure much.

      DICK [aside]. No question of that; for I have seen him whipp’d three market-days together.

      JACK CADE. I fear neither sword nor fire.

      SMITH [aside]. He need not fear the sword; for his coat is of proof.

      DICK [aside]. But methinks he should stand in fear of fire, being burnt i’ th’hand for stealing of sheep.

      JACK CADE. Be brave, then; for your captain is brave, and vows reformation. There shall be in England seven half-penny loaves sold for a penny: the three-hoop’d pot shall have ten hoops; and I will make it felony to drink small beer: all the realm shall be in common; and in Cheapside shall my palfrey go to grass: and when I am king,- as king I will be,-

      ALL. God save your majesty!

      JACK CADE. I thank you, good people:- there shall be no money; all shall eat and drink on my score; and I will apparel them all in one livery, that they may agree like brothers, and worship me their lord.

      DICK. The first thing we do, let’s kill all the lawyers.

      P. S. Be careful what you ask for, gentlemen. You might just get it.

    3. According to Paul C. Schulte, the Lord Chancellor approved Shakespeare’s plays, so the censor in that office figured it out.

  1. Two tweets from Representative Gabbard – who actually SERVED in Iraq – unlike Bolton – Establishment jerk.


    I can’t think of anyone more dangerous than John Bolton to be the National Security Adviser. Pompeo and Bolton are standard bearers for the interventionist neocon foreign policy establishment, addicted to regime change wars, without any thought of the deathly cost or consequence


    McMaster is out. Trump’s choice of John Bolton to replace him, following his pick of Pompeo, continues the extreme warhawk neocon takeover of the White House. Bolton helped build the case of WMD lies that was used to invade Iraq. Bolton still champions that war today.

    1. Autumn, I used to admire TulsiGabbard for the way she stood up to Pelosi and Hillary a few years ago.
      Lately she has shown a very dark side of her (which we all have) but she is letting it go unchecked like so many online.
      To wit, the comments you posted by her, if true, are unbecoming of her, of an officer, a Vet, of a Member of Congress and of anyone speaking in a public forum, e.g. Twitter

      We have a rule at home that was once the dictum in society at large: “if you cant say something nice about someone, say nothing at all”

      It isnt the internet’s fault. It is people having no self-regulation. Off the chain. Regardless of how we feel about others (assuming we have actually met them in person), expressing vitriol, ad hominum and demeaning speech towards others (e.g. “deplorables”) are all a segway to pandemonium and chaos. Exhibit A: our civilization.

      This is why Jonathan Turley is so noteworthy: he doesnt engage in such verbiage. Any who do have little standing to preach.

      At home we do not participate, nor have we ever participated, on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and other type media because frankly they show the dark side of America. It has become truly dark in USA thanks to Americans and not the internet per se.

  2. What are the odds that “rule of law” Turley will write about the Pennsylvania Republicans impeaching judges who made decisions against egregious gerrymandering? Answer- slim to none because gerrymandering serves the oligarchy.

      1. MLH – LOL – it would take more than “Vitamin V” to chill out Linda. Maybe Risperdol?

        Risperidone is used to treat certain mental/mood disorders (such as schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, irritability associated with autistic disorder). This medication can help you to think clearly and take part in everyday life.

        Risperidone belongs to a class of drugs called atypical antipsychotics. It works by helping to restore the balance of certain natural substances in the brain.

        1. Students and others protesting gun violence today are a continent apart from commenters Autumn and “Mommy’s Little Helper”.

          Speculating… Assange could leak data about the links between the Russian repressive government and politically active Republicans who have deep pockets. Many Americans are curious about the cyber trails of Nunes, Erik Prince and Rohrbacher.
          Legitimate journalists published info. about Cambridge Analytica/Mercer. Assange could legitimize himself or do the opposite, continue to be viewed as Putin’s lackey, who is partisan in favor of oligarchs, in whichever country they live.

        2. Risperidone, a second generation anti-psychotic, inhibits a potent neurotransmitter, Dopamine, from attaching to receptors in the brain, particularly D1 and D2 Receptors. It also inhibits Serotonergic receptors and Alpha-Adrenergic pathways receptors. These are all implicated in neural activity in the brain and therefore behaviors like schizophrenia. Benzos target GABA receptor chloride gate channels in neurons in the CNS, increasing the frequency of their opening. The more frequent influx of Chloride ions allows prolonged hyperpolarization intracellularly which reduces anxiety, convulsions, induces muscle relaxation and somnolence.

          More info here as an FYI

          I think we need to add Benzos in the water supply of America

  3. Trump is nuts, for sho, for sho.

    However, Trump is slowly surrounding himself with men and women with outstanding pedigrees

    John Bolton. Hip hip hooray!

    John Bolton for National Security – Wall Street Journal

    “President Trump has said he is at last assembling a Cabinet team to his liking, and late Thursday he announced that John Bolton will replace General H.R. McMaster as his National Security Adviser. It is a solid and experienced choice.

    General McMaster, like others, reportedly had fallen out of favor with Mr. Trump. But there should be no doubt that General McMaster helped the President through a challenging first year, which included an array of problems inherited from the Obama Administration, not least the North Korean nuclear threat.

    John Bolton, President Trump’s new national security adviser, has been a regular contributor to the Journal for many years. Here are a few examples:

    The Legal Case for Striking North Korea First, March 1, 2018
    Beyond the Iran Nuclear Deal, Jan. 18, 2018
    America Needs a Post-ISIS Strategy, June 29, 2017
    The New Foreign Policy, Same as the Old, May 22, 2017
    A Resolute Message for China, April 6, 2017
    Trump’s New Start With Russia May Prove Better Than Obama’s, Feb. 14, 2017

    Mr. Bolton’s critics often accuse him of belligerence and reactive saber-rattling. He is indeed direct. No listener comes away from a conversation with John Bolton in doubt about where he stands. That must include Mr. Trump, who had Mr. Bolton under consideration to be his first Secretary of State last year and has discussed foreign issues often with him since.

    The charge that Mr. Bolton can be an unguided missile misconstrues his ideas and experience. He served in the State Department during both Bush Presidencies. Under George W. Bush he created the multinational Proliferation Security Initiative in 2003, a useful effort explicitly designed to deter North Korea’s efforts to smuggle weapons materials.

    Those wanting an understanding of John Bolton’s thinking on security issues should read the many essays he has written for these pages in recent years—most recently “The Legal Case for Striking North Korea First” on Feb. 28.

    Mr. Bolton’s first job will be to prepare the President for an historic meeting with Kim Jong Un. We may assume Pyongyang knows now that bluffing the U.S. won’t work.”

    Finally, real leaders in place in the USA. Trump can lock himself up in a twitter booth for all we care with real leaders like Bolton at the helm

    1. Real “leaders”? I agree with Caitlin Johnstone – Bolton is a weapon! Trump f*cked up royally.

      “Mere days after promoting Mike “I’m going to make the CIA a much more vicious agency” Pompeo to Hillary Clinton’s old job as Secretary of State, President Trump has replaced his National Security Advisor H.R. McMaster with John Bolton, who Glenn Greenwald just described as “unstable, monstrous and bloodthirsty,” and “an actual sociopath in the clinical sense of that term.”

      Greenwald is not being hyperbolic; there is no more bloodthirsty a war hawk in Washington than John Bolton. Just last month he authored an article for the Wall Street Journal arguing in favor of a preemptive strike on North Korea, in which he cited a quote from Pompeo as part of his argument. Bolton calls for regime change in every rival of the US empire on a regular basis, he knowingly advanced lies to help manufacture support for the Iraq invasion, he revived the US-Russia arms race by leading America’s withdrawal from the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty in 2002, advocates more escalations with both China and Russia, and has spent his entire career pushing for death and destruction at every opportunity.

      This latest move makes it abundantly clear that wars are planned, and a team is being assembled to help facilitate them. There is only one thing John Bolton knows, and that’s killing. He would not be appointed to National Security Advisor (a position which does not require Senate approval) unless large amounts of killing were planned. That is what John Bolton does. It is what he is for. He is a weapon.

      So I think it’s fair to say that anyone who voted for Trump who considers themselves anti-war or anti-interventionist has officially run out of valid reasons to support this president. His cabinet is filling with more and more neoconservative war hawks for a reason, and war is the one and only thing that John Bolton is known for. He is the keystone in a blood-soaked archway.”

      “Anti-War Trump Voters Just Officially Ran Out Of Reasons To Support This President”

      1. “America dropped 26,171 bombs in 2016. What a bloody end to Obama’s reign”

        “While candidate Obama came to office pledging to end George W Bush’s wars, he leaves office having been at war longer than any president in US history. He is also the only president to serve two complete terms with the nation at war.

        President Obama did reduce the number of US soldiers fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq, but he dramatically expanded the air wars and the use of special operations forces around the globe. In 2016, US special operators could be found in 70% of the world’s nations, 138 countries – a staggering jump of 130% since the days of the Bush administration. ”

        1. True Sophie, in fact the US ran OUT of bombs during Obama’s tenure. However, putting a creepy warmonger like Bolton is inexcusable! Stop it with the foreign interventions! Focus on our needs at home.

          1. World War 2 might never have occurred if the so-called warmongers were in power instead of Chamberlain. But to some, so-called “warmongerers” cause war while peace-loving people like Chamberlain guarantee the peace. It is strange how some cannot distinguish the difference between rational thought and titles pronounced by mindless people. Remember, Obama won the Nobel Peace Prize as did the terrorist Arafat who deprived his people of a decent life and was willing to kill his own people’s children along with his enemy’s.

            1. Allan, Invading Iraq under false premises is not comparable to Chamberlain’s being an appeaser and allowing Hitler to expand his Lebensraum.

              Bolton is all about regime change. Enough already! And no one takes the Nobel seriously anymore!

              1. Autumn, I didn’t mention Iraq. I mentioned WW2 and how appeasement and the appearance of weakness might have let the war occur when the lack of appeasement and a showing of strength might have prevented the war.

                You utilized name calling rather than discussion. I don’t like involving our troops in countries that do not create an existential threat to our nation, but the show of weakness can cause wars. The show of strength can prevent them. For decades we have been trying to resolve the Korean issue and now Korea is set to have nuclear weapons and the ability to deliver them to our shores. Do you prefer the demonstration of weakness that let this happen and do you prefer to wait until WW3 has to be fought? I choose peace backed up by strength and the proper evaluation of threats. Perhaps you choose peace under the assumption that appeasement works despite what was learned from WW2.

                1. Allan, I hope that Trump can come to an an agreement w/ NK that works for everyone. What worries me about Bolton is that he was an architect of the invasion of Iraq which cost so much in terms of life and money. And he has long had a hatred of Iran. I am sick of spending money on conflicts that are not about OUR national security – only enriches the MIC. Totally sick that we sell even more weapons to the disgusting Saudis who have contributed exactly nothing to the world except oil, beheadings, Wahabism and terrorists — yet demonize the Persians who actually have an amazing history and culture?

                  “Bolton actively conspired during his tenure as the Bush administration’s policymaker on Iran from 2002 through 2004 to establish the political conditions necessary for the administration to carry out military action.

                  More than anyone else inside or outside the Trump administration, Bolton has already influenced Trump to tear up the Iran nuclear deal. Bolton parlayed his connection with the primary financier behind both Benjamin Netanyahu and Donald Trump himself—the militantly Zionist casino magnate Sheldon Adelson—to get Trump’s ear last October, just as the president was preparing to announce his policy on the Iran nuclear agreement, the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA). He spoke with Trump by phone from Las Vegas after meeting with Adelson.”


                  1. Iran is a terrorist state that is the most active state supporting terrorism in the world. They have vowed to destroy America. Look at what they say. The nuclear treaty was a farce. If it were real I would have supported it 100%, but it is not. We are stuck with it now despite the fact that Iran doesn’t live up to the agreement and I don’t think they ever even signed it. What do you propose to do when they get nuclear weapons and do what they stated they would do? I am not interested in using our power to change Iran’s government. That is up to their people, but I am interested in protecting America and the world from a nuclear exchange.

                    You have a lot of Bullsh!t between your ears when it comes to Israel. You don’t bother looking at history and you focus on it with a disdain that you cannot defend. Terrorism comes from Iran to Hezbollah and Hamas while the Palestinian people have been left to rot and taught that Jews are monkeys and should be slaughtered. That is what you support. I’m not saying Israel is perfect or there is only one way to obtain a solution rather the elimination of Israel will not happen unless there is a nuclear war in the region something your ideas seem to promote.

                    If you look at how a world war has been prevented over the past 70 years you will realize it is based on a balance of power. You do realize that the Saudis, who I have no love for, have been threatened and even bombed by proxies for the Iranians. You note the barbarian actions of the Saudis but do you note the actions of the Iranians today? Iran was a completely different nation and westernized before the Shah took over. I hope for a revolution by the people of Iran for many of them are not in favor of their government’s actions and would like to have their nation returned to a more civilized existence.

            2. Allan said, “World War 2 might never have occurred if the so-called warmongers were in power instead of Chamberlain.”

              That’s almost certainly true. Unfortunately . . .

              Allan also said, “If you look at how a world war has been prevented over the past 70 years you will realize it is based on a balance of power.”

              The absence of the much dreaded World War III over the past seventy years owes more to the doctrine of mutually assured destruction and, to a lesser extent, a renovated version of the doctrine of mutual defense than to the doctrine of the balance of power; the lattermost of which doctrines was fully implicated in the advent of The First World War as well as The Seven Years War (a.k.a. The French and Indian Wars; a.k.a. The War of Conquest). Although, it should also be admitted that an earlier rendition of the doctrine of mutual defense had had a hand in the advent of The First World War as well.

              One could go on and on in that vein. After all, the doctrine of the balance of power was first enunciated by Francis I, King of France, near the end of the fourteenth century. Then adopted by Henry VII, King of England, at the end of the fifteenth century. Both England and France exploited the doctrine of the balance of power to prop up The Ottoman Empire’s expansion into, and extended occupation of, The Balkan Countries.

              But more importantly, World War II was a direct consequence of the Treaty of Versailles and its attendant reparations as well as the profoundly idiotic intransigence of Great Britain and France to allow the successive governments of Prince Lodz and Alexander Kerensky to withdraw from World War I without having immediately to repay Russia’s war debt to Great Britain and France. You see, Allan, no Bolshevik revolution also would have equaled no World War II, either.

              And that brings us to the so-called super-power conflict between The United States versus The Soviet Union from 1945 through 1991. The Russian Federation would very much like to reclaim its former status as a super-power. And, if allowed to do so, Russia would resume its role in the doctrine of the balance of power that Trump, Mattis and McMaster enunciated near the end of 2017. That is not the sort of balance of power that this world needs to forestall World War III for another seventy years or more, if we can get it.

              1. Diane, I note a lot of repetition of ideas expressed by others with little ability on your part to connect the dots.

                “owes more to the doctrine of mutually assured destruction ”

                MAD was an important policy to prevent war between the two superpowers of the day, however, world wars frequently start in rather unimportant places. Wars can start for very trivial reasons so the idea behind diplomacy is to mix hard and soft power. One can get a vivid idea of how this is done, though unsuccessfully, by reading Thucydides on the Peloponnesian wars.

                “But more importantly, World War II was a direct consequence of the Treaty of Versailles ”

                Take note, there were three wars in the Peloponnesian Wars, three Punic Wars and a world war with two parts WW1 and WW2. In all three examples, the wars did not stop until there was total defeat of one side. That is a lesson that needs to be considered.

                “You see, Allan, no Bolshevik revolution also would have equaled no World War II, either.”

                That is an arguable conclusion.

                “The Russian Federation would very much like to reclaim its former status as a super-power. ”

                What one would like vs reality are two different things. At the present time, it appears unlikely that in a decade or so Russia will be able to exert the type of power you refer to except for the fact that they have nuclear weapons. Look at their demographics and their economic well being. Putin has tried to extend his borders as far as he can to the present knowing the future will not provide him such ability based on Russian strength.

                Whether people like to realize it or not the United States is a great superpower that overall has been good to the world (even with its mistakes), promoted peace and has elevated the standard of living to hundreds of millions if not billions.

          2. Autumn, was “Sophia”s comment inserted just so that you could write what you wanted next?
            Reminds me of Ariz. GOP Rep. McSally, “She forgot to sign out of her own Facebook account before she posted fake compliments to herself”. She’s a big fan of Narcissist Trump. No surprise.

  4. MacDougal obviously pi$$ed off she didn’t get to wreck his marriage and become the Donald’s 4th wife. Trump not keeping his d!ck in his pants and cheating on Melania SAD, MacDougal sleeping with a married man and then whinging about it after double SAD.

    ‘I looked at him (+ felt sad) + said, “No thanks – I’m not ‘that girl.” I slept w/you because I like you – NOT for money’”- He told me “you are special.”‘

    McDougal, who was the Playmate of the Month for December 1997 and later Playmate of the Year for 1998, said she was drawn to Trump’s personality above all else.

    ‘I was so nervous! I was into his intelligence + charm. Such a polite man,’ she wrote in her journal.

      1. They are far worse…they try to kill and threaten to kill Members of Congress. Here is the latest:

        “According to court documents, Wallace Grove Godwin, 69, visited the Virginia Beach Office of Congressman Scott Taylor yesterday. After apparently becoming frustrated during a discussion about marijuana policy, Godwin made the following statement to a staff member for the Congressman: “Scott is having an event this Saturday. I am going to get my shotgun and do something about this. I will just handle this myself.” Godwin then pointed at two staffers in the room and stated, “You two are next.”

        Hillary has cult followers who will stop at nothing to shut down others

  5. Many people on this message board fail to realize how difficult it is to become a lawyer. Take the bar exam, for example. One can go to one of the top law schools in the nation and graduate with honors, but that along will not help an individual to pass the bar exam. To pass the bar exam requires that the budding lawyer devote considerable time and effort to passing that specific exam. And to give you an idea of just how difficult it is to pass the bar exam in your state, consider the following “typical” bar exam series of questions you’ll be required to write about to pass the bar:


    You are walking through Central Park, which by chance is the property of the city of New York when you notice a large structure with an open front face. It is marked “Property of the State of New York.” Being curious, you walk in and find yourself in a wind tunnel. You know this because a propeller from an industrial fan comes flying at you and knocks you over. You are certain you have a concussion. As you are about to stand up and recover your composure, a man comes toward you with a vacuum cleaner, and astonished to see you lying there, he lets the huge thing fly out of his hands and it runs you over, breaking various limbs. He is an employee of Highly Hazardous E-Stop-L Cleaning Service of Bayonne, New Jersey, and his name is Jose. He lives in Bridgeport, Connecticut, on work release from the Department of Corrections, where he was incarcerated for narcotics possession and related crimes.

    Jose has taken his Adderall today, but not as instructed: he has taken seven pills instead of one, even though the packaging inside warns not to operate heavy machinery if you are taking any amount of the medication. He was prescribed the Adderall by a general practitioner through his HMO, which is part of a Connecticut state plan for the uninsured. His doctor has no special knowledge about psychopharmacological drugs. As Jose is jumping up and down and pulling the vacuum cleaner off of you, the ceiling caves in. It is made out of glass because this is an experiment in combining solar and wind energy for greater efficiency, which is being conducted jointly by a professor from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and a researcher affiliated with Columbia University, underwritten by a grant from the US Environmental Protection Agency, with additional funding from Cos Cob Venture Partners, LLP, of Greenwich, Connecticut. Glass shards are everywhere. The structure is over six years old, and the architect resides in Vermont, with offices in Hanover, New Hampshire and Portland, Maine, though the contract to build the structure was signed on Long Island. The contractor who was subcontracted by the architect to do the construction is based in Lynn, Massachusetts, and incorporated in the Cayman Islands.

    Just as you and Jose are about to stand up amid the glass, propeller, and vacuum cleaner parts, you smell fumes: apparently, there is a gas leak from the heating system that was installed to keep workers warm during the winter. Both of you faint. At this moment, 22 children, ages nine and ten, come rushing into the shack to see what’s going on, and all of them faint as well, but one of them first throws his model airplane into the air, and the glue makes the fumes even more poisonous. Soon there are 24 bodies all in a heap. An employee of the Central Park Conservancy, a not-for-profit organization, who is chopping up some wood nearby, comes rushing over to see what has happened, ax in hand. As he approaches, the blade looses from the handle, flies through the open face of the shack, and strikes Jose in the hip.


    Here are all the parties: You, Jose, the state of New York, the city of New York, the Environmental Protection Agency, MIT, Columbia University, Cos Cob Venture Partners, CNN, the state hospital, the state of Connecticut, Jose’s general practitioner, your doctor at the hospital, Jose’s doctor at the hospital, 22 nine- and ten-year-olds, the Central Park Conservancy, the man with the axe, the heating company, the manufacturer of the heating unit, the gas company, the architect, the construction company, Highly Hazardous E-Stop-L Cleaning Service, the axe manufacturer, the blade manufacturer, the model airplane manufacturer, the glue manufacturer, the manufacturer of the vacuum cleaner, the manufacturer of Adderall, the HMO, the manufacturer of the wind tunnel, the manufacturer of the fan, God almighty.

    Who can sue whom? How many lawsuits can we get out of this? Are there assignment and delegation possibilities? Third-party defendants? Comparative liabilities? Contributory liabilities? Joint and several liabilities? Cross claims? Countersuits? Diagrams are not an acceptable answer.
    Can the children’s parents be sued for bringing them into the world?
    Can you be sued for trespass to lands?
    What are your claims against the state of New York?
    What are your claims against the city of New York?
    What are your claims against the government of the United States?
    In which court would you sue, assuming you have claims?
    Are there First Amendment problems here?
    Are there Fourteenth Amendment issues here?
    Is there any way to get personal jurisdiction over the architect? The contractor?
    Can New York City sue New York State? Can New York sue Connecticut? Can any state sue the United States? Who has jurisdiction?
    If there is an appeal, where will it end up?
    If Jose dies because of all this, and is intestate, will New York law apply?
    Will any law apply to any of this, or is this just a very unfortunate way to spend a day?

    1. “Many people on this message board fail to realize how difficult it is to become a lawyer. Take the bar exam, for example.”

      Becoming a lawyer is not that difficult. Even passing the bar is no great feat. There are a lot of idiots that have become lawyers and passed the bar and they don’t know very much about the law. One should take great caution when they hire a lawyer because all too many are cheats and worst of all poorly represent their clients.

      Becoming a good lawyer and being able to represent a position well is a difficult job. That takes intelligence. Lawyers like Alan Dershowitz below are brilliant even if one disagrees with their position. He is one of the lawyers I respect the most even though I might disagree with some of his viewpoints. He is consistent and not afraid of other opinions.

      1. Allan – supposedly Marky Mark Mark passed the bar in some backwater state. If he can do it, there is hope for all of us. 🙂

        1. I think he wanted us to believe he was a lawyer, but it doesn’t ring true even if he were in a backwater state.

        1. The federal Bar exam requires knowledge of the federal rules of procedure. For the most part, this is pure memorization and a short exam. The State Bars require knowledge of the law in the state one resides along with the Constitution and federal law. If you are an attorney and passed the bar, tell me how difficult it is to respond to multiple choice questions. Perhaps the essays that might be given in your state present more of a challenge. After three years of doing little else than preparing for the bar, I don’t think that task is so great considering the fact that one can err on many questions.

          If one goes to a good law school where they are taught how to think they might have a problem because they are not being taught how to pass the Bar. However, there are special courses such as provided by Kaplan that coach candidates so they can pass the Bar. If one fails they can take the Bar and the course over and over again until the law of averages permits them to pass.

          1. Allan – I do know that some are reciprocal. Depends where you test.

            1. Yes, but the exams differ from state to state.

              A Bar-certified lawyer doesn’t guarantee quality law.

      2. Excellent. the last guy in my class was more intelligent and much less envious than you, or any of your ilk.

        this is to “oh ya, I fought my own traffic ticket” allan

        1. Marky Mark Mark – you were the last guy in your class and you over-rate your intelligence. That is how you get to be the bottom of the heap.

        2. Mark, insult all you want. We all know that you are spineless, witless and intellectually deficient. There is no way you can even up your game. That is why you play on the sidelines saying nothing of importance while making a fool of yourself and those that associate with you.

          I don’t bother fighting a traffic ticket. There are many lawyers begging to do so for just a few dollars. Go back to filing and memorizing your ABC’s.

          1. I have to agree with you Allen. In my experience, very competent people had problems passing the CA Bar Exam (20% pass rate at the time 1988), and some who passed were idiots. As you said, law school did not prepare me for the bar, but I found taking the Multistate Prep only was sufficient for me to pass 3 states .
            Based on sound advice I was given, I found neither law school or the various bars difficult. I’ve also dealt with some very incompetent attorneys in numerous jurisdictions and levels.

            1. Hillary flunked the DC Bar. She ain’t as smart as they want us to believe, that’s for sure.

  6. I’m reminded of a quote from the Talmud: ” If you have a mouse it’s the hole’s fault”.
    Trump is the mouse and our government has bored the hole.

  7. I love what Trump brings out. These banal government actions that are never quite held to any reasonable set of standards that the average Joe could grasp. For example, was anyone paying attention when Trump said that NATO members owed us money?
    Example after example Trump is showing us how gelatinous the law can be and all of these attorneys he hires prove what a subjective process the idea of laws governing means behavior can be.

      1. So see how that works. You voluntarily suggested that you have some sort of facts regarding that situation.
        The argument will continue. It’s a misenterpretaion of something that is plausible regarding the behavior of the largest publically funded bureaucracies in the world.
        Please provide links to support your assertions that counter Dear Leader’s pronouncements.

        1. Everybody is supposed to pay a certain percentage to NATO. Some do not pay the amount they pledged. However, they NATO MEMBERS DO NOT OWE US THE MONEY.

          1. Landrieu, if you go out to dinner with two other fellows and agree to split the bill into thirds but one doesn’t leave any money on the table, what does that make you if the other two then split the entire bill so they won’t be arrested when they walk out the door?

            1. Exhibit A for the adage that “for every problem, there is an answer that is simple, but wrong.”

              this is to “countries are not yokels down to the coffee shop” allan

              1. Marky Mark Mark – Exhibit A for the adage “there will always be a simpleton with an adage.”

              2. Mark, you are probably the one that slips out of the restaurant without paying. You are very affordable. I take note that leaches of your size (small or smaller) go for about $1 per dozen.

  8. It’s only a matter of time that Trump has Kellyanne Conway standing outside law schools waiting for the students to come out to ask them if they want a job. And if they have had a least two hours of training even they would run away.

    1. Funniest story today is that the president isn’t so sure about the nutty Joe and Victoria clown show so he may not hire them after all. Although now the the media has reported it, his oppositional defiant disorder will kick in and he will hire them. Or maybe he won’t.

      Dershowitz has been on his metaphorical knees all year begging for the job. But I think his association with Jeffrey Epstein may disqualify him.

      Maybe KellyAnne should join the legal team.

        1. Cohen has said he’d take a bullet for Trump. Cohn was Trump’s mentor and lawyer. So the standards for a Trump lawyer is pretty much the stinkiest of sewers.

            1. oppositional defiant behavior is something that children and teenagers usually outgrow before they hit adulthood. The fact that an old man still does this as a primary part of his behavioral reportoire is deeply concerning and pathological.

            1. The overriding concern with the various emotional, cognitive and intellectual problems that the day glo bozo displays on an hourly basis is the likelihood that at some point in time, a military officer somewhere along the line is going to disobey a direct and lawful order that this clown issues, on the grounds that the order is batshit crazy and will likely constitute a war crime. Pandora’s Box has nothing on what would follow such an event.

      1. What “association with Jeffrey Epstein” has Dershowitz had? There is zero evidence of a “relationship.”

        Perhaps you’re thinking of the false claims made against him? In 2014, attorneys Edwards and Cassell filed a motion claiming that Epstein forced “Jane Doe No. 3” to have sex with Dershowitz “not only in Florida but also on private planes, in New York, New Mexico, and the US Virgin Islands.” However, in an interview with Business Insider, Dershowitz said he could account for all of the time during which he was alleged to have had sex with Jane Doe No. 3.

        “There is no conceivable possibility that it could have happened,” Dershowitz said.

        A federal judge ended up striking the claims made in that motion from the court record last year, as Bloomberg BNA reported. Meanwhile, Edwards and Cassell noted that Dershowitz had produced travel records to establish he couldn’t have been present during the supposed misconduct, in addition to other allegations to refute the claims against him.

        “The parties believe it is time to take advantage of the new information that has come to light on both sides during the litigation and put these matters behind them,” the lawyers said in their joint statement.

        Get it? No “association.” Stop reading fake news for a change.

        1. Yes, I know he was cleared. I remember a number of years ago reading that Dershowitz helped him on one of his cases, and that’s what I was referring to.

  9. “Information, like water, tends to find its way out against even the strongest walls.”

    Americans have learned through Hillary’s politically craven career, that she can’t stop the river. Donald is a total amateur compared to her. He is a buffoon and won’t last long. He will get tired of the job as President and move on to more hotels and casinos. Hillary, on the other hand, like her cult followers, refuses to accept the fact that Americans hate her. They hate her, they hate her, they hate her and for very justifiable reasons. Heck, even her husband hates her.

    “Bill and Hillary Clinton have ‘AT LEAST a one-way open marriage’ claims their veteran pollster – who compares them to Kevin Spacey and Robin Wright in House of Cards”

    Mark Penn claims that the former First Couple have ‘at least a one-way open marriage’
    He even references Kevin Spacey and Robin Wright’s characters on the hit political drama House of Cards, where the first couple ‘have numerous partners
    Penn opens up about the Clintons in his upcoming book, Microtrends Squared: The New Small Forces Driving Today’s Big Disruptions
    He also criticized Hillary Clinton’s 2016 presidential campaign, saying ‘elite’ and ‘highly educated’ voters often asked him why Hillary Clinton was so unlikable
    Penn says two-thirds of Americans hate her and two-thirds hate Donald Trump
    And he pours cold water on claims Russia hacked the election through Facebook which Hillary has listed as one of the reasons she lost

    1. Today’s column was about the three women suing Trump. How did you think Hillary was relevant?

      Perhaps it’s a knee-jerk reaction Trumpers have to unpleasant news. One that basically goes: “What about Hillary??”

      1. Autumn and crew are paid to deflect the discussion from T rump’s disasters. They are havin to work overtime as it is gettin fugly ugly. And that goes for the stock market. Those woman that are suin da orange porn king are gonna win, they got better attorneys than the old cheatin man whore.

        1. Nope, OK, wrong again as usual. Not paid – have alot of time on my hands and using it wisely.

            1. Where’s the photo of the Koch’s building a bigger vault for their money?
              Where’s the photo of the Mercers congratulating Cambridge Analytica?
              Where’s the photo of Putin cheering?

        1. Hillary ain’t on our ticket this year and that is a good thing. We are gonna take back da house from Ryan and da senate from da turtle. Got some good candidates and some okay ones. Lots a women are runnin and Hillary ain’t. Lamb did not want her. Some will. Most wont. Movin on to victory.

          1. Very optimistic OK!! Y’all need to shed ALL the DINOs. Why is it when I am with my Dem friends not ONE has ever heard of Tulsi Gabbard?! Until the Dims stop eating their own decent pols there is 0 hope for that party.

          2. Original Ken – Hillary is the head of the Democratic Party and you are carrying her into the midterms. She has even been fund raising.

              1. Linda – Lamb barely won and has to run again in November. Lamb seems to have run against Hillary.

    2. barbara, I read that story too. Didja see the list at the end? So true, so damn funny – corrupt crone looks everywhere except in the mirror.



      Clinton is furious that Comey, then the FBI director, publicly revealed the re-opening of the secret email server investigation just before election day – and has said so time after time after time.

      THE FBI

      Comey’s entire organization does not escape her wrath.

      ‘The FBI wasn’t the Federal Bureau of Ifs or Innuendoes. Its job was to find out the facts,’ she writes in What Happened.


      ‘There’s no doubt in my mind that Putin wanted me to lose and wanted Trump to win,’ she told USA Today in September last year while promoting What Happened.

      It was hardly a new theme. As early as December the New York Times obtained audio in which she told her donors: ‘Putin publicly blamed me for the outpouring of outrage by his own people, and that is the direct line between what he said back then and what he did in this election.’


      Putin’s entire apparatus gets a name-check. In May she told the Codecon convention how ‘1,000 Russian agents’ had filled Facebook with ‘fake news’.
      She told NPR ‘my path toward November was being disrupted with Russians’.


      The ‘transparency website’ is consistently ranked along with Comey by Clinton at the top of her blame list.

      She told NPR : ‘Unfortunately the Comey letter, aided to great measure by the Russian WikiLeaks, raised all those doubts again.’

      And she writes of its founder Julian Assange in What Happened: ‘In my view, Assange is a hypocrite who deserves to be held accountable for his actions.’


      ‘You put yourself in the position of a low information voter, and all of a sudden your Facebook feed, your Twitter account is saying, “Oh my gosh, Hillary Clinton is running a child trafficking operation in Washington with John Podesta.”,’ she told the Codecon convention in May.

      ‘Well you don’t believe it but this has been such an unbelievable election, you kind of go, ‘Oh maybe I better look into that.”


      ‘We have an electoral college problem. It’s an anachronism,’ she told Vox.


      ‘I think it’s important that we learn the real lessons from this last campaign because the forces that we are up against are not just interested in influencing our elections and our politics, they’re going after our economy and they’re going after our unity as a nation,’ she told Codecon in May.

      ‘What is hard for people to really accept – although now after the election there’s greater understanding – is that there are forces in our country – put the Russians to one side – who have been fighting rear guard actions for as long as I’ve been alive because my life coincided with the Civil Rights movement, with the women’s rights movement, with anti-war protesting, with the impeachment.


      ‘I was the victim of a very broad assumption that I was going to win,’ she told the Codecon convention.


      Clinton says polls in key states did not serve her.

      ‘I think polling is going to have to undergo some revisions in how they actually measure people,’ she told the Codecon convention.

      ‘How they reach people. The best assessments as of right now are that the polling was not that inaccurate, but it was predominantly national polling and I won nationally.’


      Clinton has two beefs with Obama: one of them being that he won two terms. Clinton says that succeeding an incumbent is almost impossible for a Democrat.

      ‘No non-incumbent Democrat had run successfully to succeed another two-termer since Vice President Martin Van Buren won in 1836,’ she writes in What Happened.

      But she also says his response to the Russian campaign of interference wasn’t enough.

      ‘I do wonder sometimes about what would have happened if President Obama had made a televised address to the nation in the fall of 2016 warning that our democracy was under attack,’ she writes in What Happened.


      ‘I believe absent Comey, I might’ve picked up 1 or 2 points among white women,’ she told Vox in September.

      ‘White woman… are really quite politically dependent on their view of their own security and their own position in society what works and doesn’t work for them.’

      ‘What happened in my election is I was on the way to winning white women until former director of the FBI Jim Comey dropped that very ill-advised letter on Oct. the 28th and my numbers just went down,’ she said in a March 2018 speech in India.

      ‘All of a sudden white women who were going to vote for me, and frankly standing up to the men in their lives and the men in their work places were being told, “She’s going to jail, you don’t want to vote for her. It’s going to be terrible you can’t vote for that.” It stopped my momentum and it decreased my vote enough. Because I was ahead and I was winning and I thought I had fought my way back. ‘


      The newspaper was blamed as early as May at the Codecon conference in Rancho Palos Verde, California.

      She singled out its managing editor Dean Baquet – the paper’s most senior editor – and said of coverage of her email issue under his direction: ‘They covered it like it was Pearl Harbor.’


      Biden could have run against her and didn’t. But Clinton writes: ‘Joe Biden said the Democratic Party in 2016 ‘did not talk about what it always stood for—and that was how to maintain a burgeoning middle class.’

      ‘I find this fairly remarkable, considering that Joe himself campaigned for me all over the Midwest and talked plenty about the middle class.’


      ‘His attacks caused lasting damage, making it harder to unify progressives in the general election and paving the way for Trump’s ‘Crooked Hillary’ campaign,’ she writes in What Happened.

      ‘I don’t know if that bothered Bernie or not.’


      ‘Some of his supporters, the so-called Bernie Bros, took to harassing my supporters online. It got ugly and more than a little sexist,’ she writes in What Happened.


      ‘I thought, at end of day, people would say, look, we do want change, and we want the right kind of change, and we want change that is realistic and is going to make difference in my life and my family’s life and my paycheck,’ she told Vox.

      ‘That’s what I was offering. And I didn’t in any way want to feed into this, not just radical political argument that was being made on other side, but very negative cultural argument about who we are as Americans.’


      Asked by CNN’s Christine Amanpour at the Women for Women International event in new York in May if misogyny was to blame she said: ‘Yes, I do think it played a role.’


      ‘When you have a presidential campaign and the total number of minutes on TV news, which is still how most people get their information, covering all of our policies, climate change, anything else was 32 minutes, I don’t blame voters,’ she told The View.

      ‘They don’t get a broad base of information to make decision on. The more outrageous you are, the more inflammatory you are, the higher the ratings are.’


      Hillary does not do Netflix and chill – or if she does, she doesn’t find it very relaxing.

      ‘Eight of the top 10 political documentaries on Netflix were screeds against President Obama and me,’ she claimed at the Codecon convention.


      ‘If you look at Facebook the vast majority of the news items posted were fake. They were connected to as we now know the 1,000 Russian agents who were involved in delivering those messages,’ she told Codecon.


      Usually mentioned in the same breath as Facebook, the micro-blogging site is seen by Clinton as one of the reasons for her loss.

      She told the Codecon convention in may that Trump had a method in his tweets.

      ‘They want to influence your reality. That to me is what we’re up against, and we can’t let that go unanswered,’ she said.


      ‘Through content farms, through an enormous investment in falsehoods, fake news, call it what you will – lies, that’s a good word too – the other side was using content that was flat out false,’ she told the Codecon convention in May.

      ‘They were conveying this weaponized information and the content of it, and they were running, y’know there’s all these stories, about y’know, and you know I’ve seen them now, and you sit there and it looks like you know sort of low level CNN operation, or a fake newspaper.’


      ‘You had Citizens United come to its full fruition.’ she told Codecon in May.

      ‘So unaccountable money flowing in against me, against other Democrats, in a way that we hadn’t seen and then attached to this weaponized information war.


      ‘American journalists who eagerly and uncritically repeated whatever WikiLeaks dished out during the campaign could learn from the responsible way the French press handled the hack of Macron,’ she writes in What Happened.

      Now-president Macron had a massive tranche of his emails hacked and released shortly before the French voted. Many outlets did not report on their contents.


      ‘Provided the untrue stories,’ she told the Codecon convention in May.


      ‘I set up my campaign and we have our own data operation. I get the nomination. So I’m now the nominee of the Democratic Party. I inherit nothing from the Democratic Party,’ Clinton said told the Codecon convention in May.

      ‘I mean, it was bankrupt. It was on the verge of insolvency. Its data was mediocre to poor, nonexistent, wrong. I had to inject money into it.’


      The Republicans were far better prepared for a campaign than the Democrats she claimed, when it came to money and data, telling the Codecon convention: ‘So Trump becomes the nominee and he is basically handed this tried and true, effective foundation.’


      The data-targeting firm ultimately owned by Robert Mercer, the billionaire Breitbart backer, and his family, is said to have targeted voters to drive them away from Clinton.

      ‘They ultimately added something and I think again we’d better understand that. The Mercers did not invest all that money for their own amusement,’ she told the Codecon convention.


      The massive demonstrations in Washington and other cities in the wake of the election were organized as an immediate response to Clinton’s shock defeat.

      But that did not stop Clinton from writing in What Happened: ‘I couldn’t help but ask where those feelings of solidarity, outrage and passion had been during the election.’


      The NBC Today show anchor quizzed both candidates at a ‘commander-in-chief forum’ on board Intrepid in New York.

      But Clinton – who went first in the back-to-back interviews, complained about Lauer focusing on her secret server and whether it raised questions over her trustworthiness.

      ‘Lauer had turned what should have been a serious discussion into a pointless ambush. What a waste of time,’ she writes in What Happened. She later delighted in his firing for sexual misconduct, saying in December: ‘Every day I believe more in karma.’


      ‘White voters have been fleeing the Democratic party ever since Lyndon Johnson predicted they would,’ she told Vox.


      ‘We’re not making the documentaries that we’re going to get onto Netflix,’ she told Codecon.

      She was asked by the interviewer: ‘This is because Hollywood isn’t liberal enough?’

      ‘No, it’s because Democrats aren’t putting their money there,’ she replied.


      The attacks on the U.S. diplomatic compound in the Libyan city of Benghazi on September 11, 2012, happened when Clinton was Secretary of State. It claimed four American lives, and was the focus of intense investigation by Congress.

      Clinton told the Today show: ‘Take the Benghazi tragedy – you know, I have one of the top Republicans, Kevin McCarthy, admitting we’re going to take that tragedy – because, you know, we’ve lost people, unfortunately, going back to the Reagan administration, if you talk about recent times, in diplomatic attacks.

      ‘But boy, it was turned into a political football. And it was aimed at undermining my credibility, my record, my accomplishments.’


      Suppressing her voters was named by Clinton as one of the major factors in her defeat in her interview on the Today show when she rattled off her laundry list. ‘What was at work here?’ she said.

      ‘In addition to the mistakes that I made, which I recount in the book, what about endemic sexism and misogyny, not just in politics but in our society, what about the unprecedented action of the FBI director, what about the interference of an adversary nation, what about voter suppression?’

      It was a return to a theme – she suggested it was a problem in Wisconsin in an interview in May with New York magazine.

      ‘I would have won had I not been subjected to the unprecedented attacks by Comey and the Russians, aided and abetted by the suppression of the vote, particularly in Wisconsin,’ she said.

      ‘Republicans learned that if you suppress votes you win.’


      The Senate majority leader is accused of stopping the Obama administration from revealing what Clinton says the Russians were up to, helping tip the balance against her because he did not want a third successive Democratic term in the White House.

      ‘Mitch McConnell, in what I think of as a not only unpatriotic but despicable act of partisan politics, made it clear that if the Obama Administration spoke publicly about what they knew [on Russia], he would accuse them of partisan politics, of trying to tip the balance toward me,’ she told the New Yorker.


      Clinton claims the Supreme Court watered down the Voting Rights Act at the Codecon convention.

      ‘You had effective suppression of votes,’ she said.

      ‘I was in the senate when we voted 98-0 under a Republican president, George W Bush, to extend the Voting Rights Act and the Supreme Court says ‘oh we don’t need it any more’ , throws it out, and Republican governors and legislatures began doing everything they could to suppress the votes.’

      Clinton appears to be referring to Second 4(b) of the Act being ruled unconstitutional by the court in 2013, because it relied on out of date data which meant it was not in line with the 15th Amendment.


      Clinton says that James Comey’s actions in re-opening the FBI investigation allowed men to influence their wives or girlfriends.

      ‘Women will have no empathy for you because they will be under tremendous pressure – and I’m talking principally about white women – they will be under tremendous pressure from fathers, and husbands, and boyfriends and male employers, not to vote for ‘the girl’,’ she told NPR.


      The newest addition to the list: named by her confidante Lanny Davis as the reason she lost at a reading of his book while Hillary nodded along in approval.

        1. yep, George, a looong comment =) I thought that was so damn funny I felt compelled to share it in its entirety.

      1. Autumn,…
        All of which convinces me that Hillary deserves another shot at the presidency in 2020.😊😀
        Let’s give the “Old Guard” of the Democratic Party one more go-around….we could have Biden and Hillary fighting it out for the nomination, maybe with a 78-79 year old Bernie Sanders representing the youth vote.😒

        1. TN – I credit Bernie for waking me up and paying attention. Too bad he caved. I am looking at Tulsi Gabbard – integrity, combat vet, bright, but the Establishment Dims hate her – go figure huh?

    3. I didn’t read any of it; but my question is: so what?

      this is to “oh, I didn’t know that all the rational people had moved on” barbara

      1. Marky Mark Mark – you didn’t read it, but you want to question it? See, that is how you ended up on the bottom of your class,

  10. “It’s very tough to beat a plane when you can’t see it,” Trump says, explaining “stealth” airplanes the United States is building.

    Guys, c’mon, you know your president is an effing moron, right? All this, “He’s playing three dimensional chess,” and “He’s playing a long-term strategy game” is just a bluff to boost your spirits as you slowly realize that Michael Bloomberg was right, ya know.

  11. Speaking of “bad cases”, Larry Sinclair stated that Obama smoked crack cocaine, had homosexual relations with him and implied that Obama had homosexual relations with a “Donald Young” who was murdered on Dec. 23, 2007, and was the openly gay choir director for Reverend Wright’s Trinity United Church of Christ. Is this true? Did CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC, PMSNBC, HLN or other outlets of the MSM report this? Why has America not heard this news? Why was the photo of Obama enjoying a visit with Louis Farrakhan not displayed in the MSM?

  12. Three women, Stormy Daniels, Summer Zervos and Karen McDougal are going to be ‘fatal distractions’ for Donald Trump. The litigation pursued by these three will put Trump in an unwinnable two front legal war. Squeezed between them and Robert Mueller, Trump will have no time for anything else.

    1. Why do you think Trump actually dedicates so much of his time to these cases that have little to do with running the nation?

      1. I don’t think Trump wants to spend ‘any’ time on these cases. I’m sure these cases are total buzzkill to him. But when one considers how time-consuming the Lewinsky scandal was to Clinton, these three cases will surely sap Trump’s focus. ..Then there’s Robert Mueller on the other front..!!

        1. The difference between Clinton’s dilemma and that of Trump is that Clinton lied, committed acts in the White House, committed rape, and was impeached. Trump is accused of something that happened a decade ago and wasn’t illegal. We don’t know if the accusations are true or not and who cares about the act. I don’t think much of his personal time needs to be spent on these matters external to the White House. That is why I thought you wrong when you said, “Trump will have no time for anything else.”

          1. Had Trump remained a reality star, no one would care about Stormy and Karen (the Porn Star and Playmate). In fact, those affairs were perfectly in keeping with Trump’s debauched playboy image.

            But when Trump, as president, assists Republicans in rolling back women’s reproductive rights. Like defunding Planned Parenthood and shifting educational dollars towards ‘Abstinence-Only’ programs, it is the height of hypocrisy!

            According to Stormy, Trump was having unprotected sex with her. And he wants to defund Planned Parenthood..??! The level of hypocrisy is enough to make one vomit.

            1. You don’t like his policies. It has nothing to do with the accusations involving Stormy. That is the crux of it so you feel entitled to forget the Constitution and rely on violence and cr-p. That is not a good way of governing the nation and not good for its future.

              I haven’t had any of those moral issues and respect woman’s rights and have protested against virtually every type of discrimination but I am against the federal funding of Planned Parenthood as well based on the law. The abortion issue shouldn’t even be a federal issue. We have an amendment process to change the Constitution. Use it.

              Further, Planned Parenthood as mentioned in earlier discussions is more of an abortion mill than what its name suggests. Look at the services it offers. If you are hot to trot on subsidized abortions that is fine with me, subsidize them with your money or tax the citizens of your state if the State Constitution permits. Don’t play the game of blaming another’s morality for your lack of clarity as to how one should regard the results of a legitimate vote that turned out not to be what you wanted. That makes you appear duplicitous and something less than a law-abiding American.

              1. Trump’s approval rating has never risen about 42%. And according to new polls released this week, his approval rating with women is at an all time low. Even those White, suburban women have turned on Trump. So this idea that Trump has any kind of mandate based on a questionable Electoral College victory is absurd. A strong majority of Americans want Trump gone as soon as possible.

                1. Questionable electoral college victory? The only question, my ever confused Peter Hill, is how you manage to function with this level of utter bewilderment at how the world works. You can help yourself by rising every day with the mantra: “I am Peter Hill. Donald Trump is President. I am on Earth. It’s [todays date].” Docs call that “AO x 3.”

                  1. 80,000 people, in just three states, composed Trump’s Electoral College Victory. If one factors Voter Suppression in Wisconsin and Gerrymandering in Pennsylvania, those 80,000 disappear.

                    1. The reason for laws to be written in black and white is so they can be followed. There is no doubt Trump won and if there was illegal voting it was most likely on the part of those voting for Democrats.

                      Clinton lost. Trump won. Accept the results and fight in Congress. Your continued arguments regarding who won and who lost aren’t appropriate outside of junior high and even there the students are supposed to be taught how to lose graciously.

                    2. Peter Hill – the voter suppression in WI was Hillary not making an appearance and gerrymandering does not stop people from voting. People stop people from voting.

                2. Once again the website has eaten another posting. I will repeat it here using my Allan.

                  “Peter, you only provide selective information that aids your case and seldom do you defend your case once challenged. Despite the fact that the press has an ongoing campaign to against Trump along with the deep state.


                  Rasmussen Reports- The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Tuesday shows that 50% of Likely U.S. Voters approve of President Trump’s job performance. Forty-eight percent (48%) disapprove.

                  By comparison, President Obama earned 43% approval on this date in the second year of his presidency.


                  Take note the polls underestimate Trump and that is why Hillary was so shocked when she lost the election.”

            2. Peter Hill – for what Stormy was charging she could afford bc pills. My understanding is that the condom is not so much a protection against children for prostitutes, but STDs. And some guys, myself included, do not like to wear condoms.

          2. More awesomeness. Keep whistling past the graveyard on the “wasn’t illegal” fervent desire.

            this is to “federal grand juries look at campaign finance crimes too?” allan

            1. Marky Mark Mark – Trump now has a legal team that knows how to play legal hardball with Mueller and his gang of legal thugs. We live in interesting times. Remember Mueller has lost more cases than he has won and he has cheated to win those.

            2. “Keep whistling past the graveyard”

              I’ll keep whistling while I walk as long as you aren’t digging up the gold teeth to supplement your welfare.

    2. The stupid lawsuits need to be put to rest so the President can do his job. End of stupid story.

      1. You are wrong, Mr Kurtz. The “stupid lawsuits” are cover for doing his job while the Main Screen Media chase the shining objects dangling before them.

        Trump has stacked, and is stacking, the Courts with fair minded Judges.
        Trump has dismantled, and more to come, many of Obama’s Executive Orders
        Trump has destroyed (past tense) the MSM – they are toast!
        Trump has shown Americans that they have a voice, those who were called “deplorables” and those who seethe at the NYT, CNN, WaPo, etc.

        If anything Trump will be a line of demarcation in our political calendar.

        While I did not vote for Trump, (I voted for a write in candidate – our family dog), he has done to show light on the dark forces in the nation starting James Comey, DOJ, FBI and of course the DNC

          1. Doesn’t it Peter? I know many people like Barbara who could not bear to vote for any of the candidates. SO bad. Luckily Jill was on our ballot.

              1. Don’t be fooled. These T rump Outin bots voted for T rump. The Stein thing is a ruse.

                1. Our family dog doesnt appreciate your comparison to Jill “is she really a physician” Stein.
                  Then again our dog does hike his leg whenever he sees a picture of Hillary, so yes, he has more integrity than that woman whom not even Bill Clinton will touch. Yeuk

                  1. I don’t think da judges will be talkin about da Clinton marriage when da people that are suin T rump get their days in court. Now should da old orange porno king get impeached da Clinton precedence could be relevant.

              2. I liked her platform and she was the only choice other than not to vote since the Hilbots destroyed Bernie.

        1. I’m so sorry for your loss. It must be painful when the world just seem to move to fast.

          this is to “TV shows are so much easier to understand that newspapers” barbie

            1. There you go again, changing the subject and deflecting.
              Youd make a great Hillary supporter. Try and convince Bill to have physical intimacy with her.
              Good luck with that

              1. Bill2 – Bill has genital herpes. If I were Hillary I would not be intimate with Bill. This came up in the Monica tapes.

            2. Fine, you don’t like Zero Hedge – go to indie newspapers in Australia and NZ.

              1. Zero Hedge, now you are down to indie papers in NZ to back up your conspiracies. What no third rate you tuber to cite? Up your game.

            3. Peter, Zero Hedge is a news aggregator that sometimes pushes theories too far to the right. Not much different than Media Maters that pushes things too far to the left. I would think that you could recognize that both sides play to their base. The unfortunate thing is that the New York Times news (not talking about the opinion section) too often leaves out important news and reports news in the fashion of a left-wing editorial. That is probably one of the reasons so many people on this blog don’t have the slightest idea of what the basis is for their own opinions.

              1. Awesome. Please report on the Zero Hedge stance on hoarding silver and where to get the best quality commo underwear.

                this is to “tinfoil will be in short supply, someday” allan

                1. Marky Mark Mark – it would be camo underwear, not commo underwear. And no one has used tinfoil in at least 20 years. You are always off the mark, Marky Mark Mark.

                2. “to get the best quality commo underwear.”

                  Mark, you don’t seem able to change your comments so we can assume you don’t change your underwear either.

        1. In other words Peter, you are not willing to let the election stand and permit the members of Congress that support your ideas fight against him in Congress the way they are supposed to. I guess that is why so many on the left were supporting violence by Antifa and other types of violence to prevent any voice but theirs from being heard. That type of mindset is somewhat autocratic.

          1. Straw man is a loss. Reddit is down the hall. “So many” is quantifiably false. Next.

            this is to “hey guys, hannity has issued our talking points!” allan

            1. Marky Mark Mark – the support of the violence of Antifa is a legitimate issue, However, being at the bottom of your class you would not know this.

    3. We understand your lust with the claims of prostitutes like Stormy Daniels, even if you ignored the claims of genteel, saintly women like Ms. Juanita Broderick.

      We look forward to the stripping of the biggest ho of them all…strip him of his law license and throw him in prison.

      Saint James Commie

      Trump got a good bj from Stormy sans blue stained dress (nod to Monica L.) while Americans got screwed by FBI

      1. Barbara – got screwed? It’s still happening. Get rid of the whole lot starting with Mueller!

  13. So there’s this NDA with false signatures on it. No real names, just claims made by some of the parties. He-said She-said. How is that even slightly enforceable?

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