“You Ain’t Supporting S–t”: Teenager Assaulted At Restaurant For Wearing MAGA Hat [Updated]

teenattacked_hdvWe have often discussed the rising incivility and anger in our political discourse.  That derangement was on display at a Whataburger in San Antonio when an unidentified man assaulted a teenager for wearing a Make America Great again hat.  It was fortunately caught on tape and hopefully the culprit will be apprehended. However, a prior such assault by a University of California-Riverside student will not face jail time for an earlier assault on a student wearing a MAGA hat. In the videotape, the man throws a soda in 16-year-old Hunter Richard’s face before triumphantly walking out of the restaurant. Update: The man has now been arrested.  The man’s name is Kino Jimenez, 30.


The teen is heard in the video below stating “I support my President and if you don’t let’s have a conversation about it instead of ripping my hat off. I just think a conversation about politics is more productive for the entire whole rather than taking my hat and yelling subjective words to me.”  The man is shown saying “you ain’t supporting shit” as he proudly waived the hat on his way out of the restaurant.  Jimenez adds “This is gonna go great in my f**king fireplace.”

The total disregard of the rights of these teens is chilling:


Notably, Jimenez was fired from his part-time job at the Rumble Bar in San Antonio after he was identified online as the man seen in the video. We have followed cases where people have been fired after boorish or insulting conduct once their names and employers are made known. (here and here). This includes YouTube videos and drunken scenes.

1530883248287It seems to me that the sentence should be more severe when someone is attacking a victim for their exercise of free speech.  The degree of utter impunity shown by the attacker speaks to his lack of remorse or control.  For that reason, I would impose a jail sentence despite the lack of serious injury.

What do you think a sentence should be for such conduct?

312 thoughts on ““You Ain’t Supporting S–t”: Teenager Assaulted At Restaurant For Wearing MAGA Hat [Updated]”

  1. Who cares? America is a failed state—and I DON’T expect Justice anytime soon in America! People toppled a Confederate statue—NO charges! The DA refused to file charges on them. I don’t care anymore. We need to stop thinking that there is Justice in America anymore. It will only get worse. The Liberals (Deep State) Coup Attempt of 2016 Against President Trump
    https://www.academia.edu/36904743/ One of the signs of a failed state is a two-tier justice system. We have that now. It is open season on Trump supporters and Morning Joe is calling Trump a fascist! What a hoot.

    1. Wait. What about Attorney General Jeff Sessions?

      The entire 7th Floor is totally corrupt with historic numbers having been fired, resigned, reassigned or set for prosecution.

      Sessions must prosecute all the participants in Obama’s coup d’etat first, then he can resurrect the Confederate statues.

      What did Christopher Wray know and when did he know it?

      If Christopher Wray did not know of Obama’s coup d’etat involving the FBI, then he is grossly incompetent, corrupt and should not be the Director of the FBI.

      If Christopher Wray did know of Obama’s coup d’etat, then he must be impeached and convicted for malfeasance, abuse of power, corruption and treason.

  2. Comments this thread consider everything but the number of angels which can dance on the head of a pin.

    1. – I think the number of angels than can dance on the head of a pin actually has been considered and debated here.
      A similar question with the same theme would be “how many blackboards would it take to diagram one of L4D/Diane’s sentences?”.
      Paul C. Schulte, if you had your students diagram sentences, maybe you can give us an estimate on the number of blackboards that would be required.

      1. Tom Nash – I taught juniors and seniors. No diagraming at that level. 😉

        1. Thanks, Paul. I wonder if any teachers still have their students diagram sentences at any grade level.
          It may be “a lost art”.

          1. Nonsense. The students of today are just as capable as the students were in the “good ole days.” Every generation throughout recorded history has denigrated the following generation as not being “up to snuff” yet we still seem to figure it out. Have some warm soup and take a nap.

            this is to “get those kids offa my lawn!” tommie

            1. Marky Mark Mark – as usual, you have lost the plot. Tom asked if it was still done, not if they could still do it. Those are two different things. Your little rant is correct, however, it has nothing to do with what Tom and I were talking about.

              1. I regret to inform you that reading comprehension is still as important as it ever was. The characterization of sentence diagramming as a “lost art” most assuredly explicitly argues that current students are no longer capable of performing such a task as they were in the “good ole days.”

                this is to “and the snow was colder back then, too” paulie

                1. Reading comprehension is still important – as is integrity.

                  What is important changes little if at all.

                  What is delivered changes alot.

                  I do not care much about sentence diagramming. If that is no longer done – I support that. I do not think it added anything.
                  Just as I do not think penmanship is all that important – and my kids never learned cursive and I am fine with that.

                  That some poor choices have been dropped is irrelevant.
                  The quality of education has still declined.

              2. Paul C. Schulte,…
                The quality, style, and relevance of Mark M.’s “contributions” here are consistent, anyway.😏😄

            2. Mark M.,
              I was at a school board meeting in the 1990s when a woman addressed the school board.
              She appeared to be in her late 30s, was very articulate, and possibly a business professional, based on her comments.
              She said she reviewed a “A-graded paper” her junior high school son wrote.
              She found over a dozen major spelling and grammatical errors.
              She found it “embarassing” that the paper with so many mistakes got a grade of A.
              (She had already taken this issue up with her son’s teacher…I don’t know if the board had a copy of the “A paper” at that point).
              She reviewed the conversation she had with her son in reviewing the errors in the paper.
              Her son said “that stuff”….i.e., proper spelling and grammer…was not that important anymore.
              Basically, the “old” priorities were not longer relevant.
              Her comments and concerns were echoed by numerous parents.
              There was a local MD who later became very active in trying to establish some better standards and practices in the district.
              At a subsequent debate in the election campaign, the incumbent board members up for reelection stressed updated methods and “21st Century skills” as a reason for different/ changing methods of teaching.
              A candidate challenging an incumbent said that he “wasn’t enough of a visionary” to know much of might be required in the coming century, but he questioned whether students without “basic 20th Century skills would be well-prepared for the 21st Century”.
              I thought that was a strong, “spot-on” comment that perfectly summed up much of the debate over the issues.
              If you had been present at that meeting, maybe you could have recommended that he eat some warm soup and go to bed…that he was just some guy overstating his concerns.
              Academic quality and performance can vary a lot from district to district, and I’m not representing the events and issues I recounted here as a universal issue in all schools.
              There does seemed to have been a “movement” within the educational establishment to de-emphasize some standards that were in place in earlier decades ( e.g., like proper spelling and grammer).
              All of this exchange started with my question to Paul about whether students still were taught how to diagram sentences…..I was curious about that, and wondered if it was still done.
              That promted your incisive and valuable advice about warm soup, so you’re maintaining your style of contributing to these comments sections.

              1. So, let me get this straight … You somehow believe that your little heartfelt tale of local woe somehow transmorgrifies into a worldwide rule of lost abilities? Really? Haha. As if. Pro tip: anecdotal evidence is merely anecdotal evidence. Thanks for playing.

                this is to “and nobody seems to be able to drive a Brougham anymore, either” tommie

                1. Marky Mark Mark – you really have lost the thread. You are defending the indefensible. Even Don Quixote picked his windmills.

                2. In the few years that I’ve participated in comments here, there have probably been about a half dozen two-bit trolls that have infested this site.
                  There are sometimes hints that those trolls actually are interested in real, normal exchange.
                  But they always seem to revert to form. And I don’t spend/ waste a lot of time communicating with them, given their preference for sniping and other games that they’re fond of.
                  Considering the source(s) and their compulsions and objectives, any rational, normal dialogue is going to be derailed by the cheap stunts that they pull.
                  I suppose that they feel the need to play these games, given that they have nothing else to work with; since any substantive contributions are beyond their capacity, they “work up to their potential” as nuisances.
                  So rather than waste time on a one-sided exchange, there’s really no upside in attempting to respond to the crap that they generously spread around.
                  Beyond giving them the recognition that they deserve from time to time, there’s no real point in taking them seriously, or pretend that they have any integrity.

                  1. Indeed, it is quite a crew. Everyone has their own role, including the “flunky role” that anonymous performs so well.

                3. The problem is far beyond local.

                  Far too many teachers do not have the skills we expected of students 40 years ago.

                  This is not the fault of our children.

                  WE have failed them.

                  We can not look to the causes and cures, until you recognize that there is a problem.

                  A significant portion of college freshmen – attending our modern dumbed down colleges,
                  have to spend a year or more in remedial work before starting their actual college education.

                  1. dhlii,…
                    The comment you posted was in reply to Markypoo’s “observations” on,my comment.
                    IF Nitpicker- in -Chief and bitchiest of the bitchy Markypoo does not see anything debatable or objectionable in posts, he’ll manufacture something.
                    That’s why he is one of a few people who makes sure that there won’t be a straightforward exchange/ debate…..he too focused on getting the “Adam Clymer Major League Status”.
                    I mentioned that once or twice, it looked like he was actually interested in a real dialogue about an issue.
                    That didn’t last long, and his old, deeply engrained habits are hard to break.
                    I agree with you that there are problems, especially in certain districts, with the quality of education.
                    What’s interesting is, ic you read my comment about the school board meeting, I specifically state that there are differences from district to district, and also state that I was not representing the events I discussed as a universal problem.
                    That statement is hard to miss, or ignore, for someone who is serious about commenting on my post.
                    Yet Markypoo decides, without any basis, to bitch and moan about my using an anecdotal story as a blanket statement about the state of the American educational system; even after I specifically state that I was not recounting those events as necessarily universal.
                    This is just one tiny, tiny fraction of the kind of the gamesmanship that Markypoo is addicted to.
                    An anonymous troll like that feels “liberated” to generally make an ass of himself hiding behind a username.
                    I’m not knocking usernames, just lowlifes who exploit them to troll.
                    Anyway, I don’t know when you first posted here, or how long you’ve read the comments section here.
                    But there is a history with Markypoo, and a TON of examples of why he’s a major nuisance.
                    He does have a few “enablers” cheering him on, so there’s that in the mix as well.

                    1. Tom;

                      I am not that concerned that MMM went mildly off point.

                      Yes, he went off on an issue that was not in your remarks.

                      I am capable of discerning that.

                      But he did veer to a relevant issue.
                      The problem is that he got it all completely wrong.

                      I am more concerned that wing buts manufacture alleged facts from thin air than that they jump topics.

              2. Does America really need Mercedes Benzes and Range Rovers in faculty/administration parking lots?

                Education is local.

                Close the Dept. of Education.

                Ban teachers and all public worker unions.

                The first workforce of all countries is the military which will never be unionized.

                Obtaining great wealth is an honorable pursuit.

                Public worker parasites, do it in the private sector.

            3. Sorry, MM but the statistics say otherwise.

              You are correct that each generation tends to think the next generation has it easier – and they do.
              That is how freedom has made us all better off.

              But as a separate independent fact by objective measures the quality of education overall at all levels has declined significantly in the past 40 years
              At the very same time as the left has pushed us to quadruple education spending.

          2. Tom Nash – back in the day, while half drunk, I diagrammed the sentence “Why?” on a beer coaster in a bar. They kept it behind the bar for years and used to bring it out to show new patrons. You would have thought I hit a World Series home run and they had the ball. 😉

            1. PCS,….
              Probably a good conversation piece for years.
              It’s something that you might have marketed as avant gard art, too, so maybe you missed the boat on a $$$ opportunity.

  3. “What do you think a sentence should be for such conduct?”
    The high range of the determinate sentence and the maximum fine with five years probation.

      1. That’s what I’m talkin’ about!

        The goon was picking on a defenseless child by intent.

        His comparative size must be considered a “deadly weapon.”

  4. This is often the end result of politicians, propagandists, and opportunists who seek to demonize a person or a people. And, they know this will happen and are appreciative of the result.

    Divide and conquer and pit Americans against one another to distract us from politicians’ failures and to keep themselves relevant through sewing anger and fear.

  5. What do you think a sentence should be for such conduct?

    A just sentence for the 30 year old loser (ie Kino Jimenez), who apparently enjoys bullying teenagers with different political perspectives, would be forcing the loser under penalty of imprisonment (30 days) to wear a MAGA hat in public for a period of not less than 6 months.

    Would the loser (ie Kino Jimenez) have confronted an adult about their choice of head wear and political ideology or does he only pick on children?

    The young man, Hunter Richard, should be commended for his attempt at avoiding confrontation with the deranged loser (ie Kino Jimenez) by using dialog to de-escalate the situation.

  6. Let’s be honest here, the entire Trump movement is thinly disguised White nationalism. Almost everyone understands that.

    Therefore Trumpers can’t have it both ways. You can’t say, “I’m a White nationalist but don’t accuse me of racism”. It’s a ridiculous denial.

    And one must note that since Trump began his campaign 2 1/2 years ago, Americans have been constantly arguing racial matters. What a waste of time!

    1. And one must note that since Trump began his campaign 2 1/2 years ago, LeftistAmericans have been constantly arguing racial matters. What a waste of time!

      There, fixed it for you. Now stop doing it. Get back on point: Natural rights, Rule of Law, Separation of Powers. Constitutionally-limited government. You’ll lose on profiling if you cannot frame your argument in that context.

      Good luck.

      1. So half the country is leftist, eh, Olly?? Before Trump, the term ,’leftist’ was rarely applied to mainstream America. But now, everyone opposed to Trump is a ‘leftist’.

        1. “But now, everyone opposed to Trump is a ‘leftist’.”

          That is crazy and ignorant. Go to National Review and gather the names of those on the right that either didn’t like Trump or still don’t like him. Somewhere along the line, you seem to have a learning disorder.

        2. “Before Trump, the term ,’leftist’ was rarely applied to mainstream America. ”
          It still does not.

          Everyone who does nto support Trump is not a leftist.

          The frothing ranting foaming 20% of the country that makes the news is.
          As well as those posting leftist drek.

          Regardless, one is not on the left because of who you oppose.
          One is on the left because one beleives in a stupid leftist ideology that has only brought pain and suffering to all anywhere it has been tried.

          If 95% of the people were “socialists” – then 95% of the people would be stupid leftists.
          Fortunately that is not the case. It further appears that the recent polls claiming an upswing in the support for socialism are skewed, as recent polls of milienials – the group most likely to be favorable to socialism can not find 25% support for socialism.
          The kids are less stupid than we thought.

        3. Peter Hill,
          Seems fair to me. If “the entire Trump movement is thinly disguise white nationalism”, why not be similarly “fair” in labeling you leftists and commies as well?

          1. Tom: you mean the Trump movement includes establishment Republicans like yourself? People who know Trump is an experienced megalomaniac bent on destroying our institutions. But somehow you’re able to hold your nose and vote for Trump anyway. Because you want a tax cut, or you think environmental regulations are a nuisance, or you want to punish women (by criminalizing abortion). Which is it for you?

            1. Peter Hill,…
              – I did not vote for either Clinton or Trump….for the first and only time in voting c. 9-10 times for presidents, I didn’t choose a candidate.
              I didn’t think either one should be president. ( I actually mentioned this a few times in 2016 in comments here).
              As a Bush41/ Bob Dole type of Repubilcan, “establishment Republican” is probably an accurate description.
              Although I have voted for Democratic presidential candidates, and once for a third party candidate for president.
              Having said that, there are people I know who would likely be considered establishment Republicans who voted for Trump.
              I don’t think, of the c. 63 million who voted for Trump, that they can be neatly categorized as non-establishment Republicans.
              Or that they’re voting that way because of “thinly veiled” racism.
              That was my point about what I considered a sweeping, inaccurate assessment by you.
              I think there are too many sweeping, overstated generalizations.
              I personally think that’s a mistake, you lousy Commie.😄😉😀

              1. Peter Hill,…
                You actually said “white nationalism”….I didn’t put “racism” in quotes, because I couldn’t remenber the exact words that you did use.
                Anyway, I wasn’t trying to change or distort what you wrote earlier.

                1. Glad to hear you’re no deplorable. I wish we could bring back the old moderate Republicans. I originally thought of myself as one.

                  1. Peter,…
                    I’m considered “deplorable” in other respects, just not “politically deplorable”.
                    But I don’t think my ex-wife posts here 😃😄, so I’m probably safe from widespread publication of my “deplorability”.

            2. Peter;

              Be specific.

              This “Trump is an experienced megolmaniac” garbage is meaningless.

              Crimes are ACTS.

              You say Trump is destroying institutions – which ones and are they of any actual value ?

              He was expected to go through washington with a scythe.
              He was elected to sort the wheat from the chaffe.

              He was elected to “destroy institutions”

              If you want me to share your outrage you need to demonstrate he is destroying something of value.

              The money we earn is OURS, When government takes money for a purpose that does not justify the use of force, that is THEFT.
              Getting some portion of what was stolen from you back is not some desire I am going to be embarrased over.
              IF others got more of what is theirs back that I did – good for them, and why can;t we cut taxes even deeper ?

              The US govenrment consumed between 3-5% of GDP for the entire first century of our existance.
              Lincoln fought the civil war without spending more than 5% of GDP
              There is no reason the federal govenrment should be consuming 25% of what we produce.

              In 1900 in NYC each day there was 1,000,000 gallons of horse urine produced, and 250,000lb of horse shit produced.
              This was a massive health and polution problem, it attracted diseases, and flies and it stank.
              Thousands of people hard to work each day to clean up the mess.

              This problem was solved – not by govenrment – or regulation,
              But by Henry Ford and the automobile.

              The car is not perfect, it too polutes, but the harm from the car was far far far less than the harm from the horseshit.

              In 1500 in London life expectance was only in the mid 20’s. People volunteeered to cross the atlantic – at that time a dangerous act, to live in the new world as indentured servants. Life in the new world was difficult and the life expectance poor – but it iwas greater than in London.

              What was wrong with london ? Burning coal, and dung(shit) for heat so polluted the air that everyone’s life expectance was reduced.

              Long before there was an automobile or an industrial revolution there was smog.

              Modern history is the relentless history of improvement in out quality of life.
              Improvement in health, improvement in environment.
              That history of improvement long predates the EPA or any environmental regulations.

              It is not govenrment and regulation that improves our lives and the environment.
              It is the very thing you blame for harming it. It is the production that has raised our standard of living.

              There is no right to clean air, food, and water.
              Nature doesn’t give us a clean and safe environment for free.

              The earliest cave men had to decide whether to sleep in the cold and eat cooked and healthier food or breath the smoke from their fires,

              Since 1972 when the EPA was created, there is not a single trend related to environmental quality that has bent further towards imrovement.
              NOT ONE.

              1. dhlii & Peter ….– I would just add a footnote about my exchange with Peter.
                I don’t agree with his statement that Trump’s victory was due to “thinly disquised white nationalism”, or his questioning whether “establishment Republicans” would have been, or “should” have been, Trump voters.
                Additionally, there is some irony in Peter’s related comment that the label of “leftist” is weaponized and misused, as if all Trump opponents must be “leftists”.
                I think that’s a fair summary of what you wrote, Peter.
                But in crediting Trump’s election win to thinly disquised white nationalism, you’re using the same kind of sweeping generalizations that you object to with the use of the word ” leftist”.
                Those generalizations are even more extreme, with Trump voters labeled as “deplorables”, “fascists”, “racists”, “selfish”, etc.
                I’ve mentioned to a few people here that, if one wants to see Trump re-elected, keep lobbing those kind of descriptions at Trump voters.
                ( I’m not quoting Peter here….I’ll skip naming the commentators hers who ARE fond of those adjectives).

                1. Pretending that anything has a single cause is ludicrously stupid.

                  In the current mess there is great debate over why Trump fired Comey.
                  Having actually fired people (and been fired) almost no one is fired for a single reason.
                  But there often is a “last straw”.

                  Was “white nationalism” a factor in Trump election – almost certainly – but a tiny one.
                  Just as many Clinton voters did so for stupid or repugnant reasons.

                  Nor can we say there is a “determinative” factor – because though some factors were unusual.
                  If any of a number of things had been different, the outcome would have been different.

                  One of the stupidities of the left is the presumption that Clinton was entitled to have every break go her way.

                  Absolutely, If Clinton had not shit all over national security, if the DNC had not been hacked, if there had been no benghazi, No Clinton foundation, no Uranium One, no ……
                  Clinton would have been elected.
                  Conversely if the Access Hollywood tape had stayed burried Trump would have won by a much larger margin.

                  You do not get to argue that because some single factor might have hypothetically changed the results that you are entitled to flip one thing you do not like and leave everything else the same.

                  Personally I think the major factor was the fact the the left has become entirely unhinged.
                  And the evidence from Pew strongly suggests that. For decades the parties and people were coalescing about the center.
                  On the one hand social conservatism was dying, we are much more tolerant of gays, transsexuals – the left has won the culture war.
                  The right is left merely defending its private freedom not to be forced to participate in things they find offensive.
                  Conversely we have also moved towards more fiscal responsibility – or atleast we had been until Bush II and then Clinton.
                  The left was prepared to end welfare, there was serious talk about privatizing social security at the start of the Bush administration.

                  But approximately concurrently with Obama’s election – democrats started shifting further left.
                  and that has increased for the past decade.

                  Trump did not cause this. The 2016 attacks on Trump are only distinguishable from those in 2012 on Romney by their amplitude.
                  The Nazi, Racist, Fascist, misogynist attacks are not new.

                  By 2016 it was self evident to much of the country that the left hates them.
                  Republicans could have run Ben Carson, Jeb Bush or Rand Paul – and we would have still heard about deplorables and hateful, hating haters.

                  The left cried wolf way too many times. And when a wolf showed up no one is listening anymore.

                  The left is one gigantic sweeping generalization.
                  Their attacks have expanded to catch the majority of the electorate – and they wonder why they can not win elections.
                  They live in a bubble and are clueless to the fact that half the country thinks quite differently than they do.

                  Trump is actually trying to keep his campaign promises – even those I disagree with.
                  That is shocking for a politician.

                  But I do not think he needed to do that.
                  All that far too many Trump voters cared about was having a president that was NOT crying for everyone else’s misfortunes but theirs.
                  All they wanted was a president that did not see them as deplorables.
                  There are for the most part not people who want a helping hand.
                  All they want is a president that is not kicking them in the face.

                  1. dhlii,…
                    Yeah, when 62 million people one way, 65 million vote another way, there are multiple factors/motivations involved in how they chose, and why they supported “X”or”Y” candidate.
                    A lot of people voted for Hillary simply because she wasn’t Trump, and voted for Trump because at least he wasn’t Hillary.
                    A lot was made/ published about Trump’s unfavorability poll numbers prior to the election.
                    But Hillary wasn’t far behind Trump in her unfavorability poll numbers.
                    That wasn’t emphasized as much in the media, and the polls may have understated just how disliked she was.

                    1. Both candidates were highly disliked.

                      For some time after the election the polls continued to do head to heads Trump/Clinton.
                      From election day until they stopped Trump always won.

                      Whatever their reasons – the voters chose Trump.

                      I voted for neither – and I am happy with my vote.

                      At the same time on Nov. 8 2016, I was shocked and happy that Clinton had lost.
                      Subsequently, Trump has proven to be a much better president than I expected.
                      Far from perfect, but still the potential to be the best president since Reagan.

                      If there are people who get the exact president they want – I do not know them.
                      I can not think of a president in my entire lifetime that was not flawed, that I agreed with on everything, that I did not seriously disagree with on something.

                      One of the better presidents in my lifetime was Clinton.

                      I am loath to admit that, because I think he is a despicable person.
                      He was also pretty bad in foreign policy and lots of people died as a result.

                      But the economy did well under him, and mostly his domestic policies were good.

                      I do not like Trump’s character, but he still head and shoulders about Clinton.

                      I liked Obama’s character – or I thought I did until I have learned more after the election.
                      But he was still a failure as a president.

                      The one thing that only an idiot would think was a factor in 2016 was Russia.

                      Mueller delivered 2TB of Russian Social media adds to Concord as part of prosecuting them.
                      That seems like alot.
                      But there are 500M tweets every day.
                      More damming though is that they were all in Russian.

                      So is the claim that Trump colluded with Russia to have 2TB of facebook adds placed in Russia and that tipped 4 states by 2M votes ?

                      Alot is made of the fact that Trump’s margin for victory in those states was small.
                      What is completely ignored is that Trump picked up 2M votes over Romney/Obama 2012 in those states.
                      Trump lost votes to Romney in many other states. He did not do well in the south or other very red strongholds.
                      But he did not need to. It is unimportant whether Trump won Georgia by 52% or 70%,
                      Just as it does nto matter how much Clinton won California by.

                      Trump had a very clear strategy for winning, from the begining.

                      It was a bold and overt strategy – win the rust belt.
                      It was no secret. Though no one expected he would pull it off.

                      On election day I though Trump’s route to victory was FL, NH, NV
                      I thought the odds of winning PA and Wisconsin were zero.

                      Is there really anyone here who thinks that the Russians bought Trump the Rust Belt ?
                      Who really thinks there are 2M Russian speakers in PA, OH, MI, WI, that were persuaded by Russian FB adds to vote for Trump ?

                      Is everyone on the left completely brain dead ?

                      Even the premise – why exactly is Trump going to collude with Russia to place social media adds ?

                      Honestly – has anyone looked at the Russian Social Media Adds ?
                      Does anyone really beleive people were persuaded by those ?

                      What intelligent person would hire Russians to run an advertising campaign in the US ?
                      Has coke or pepsi ever used the Russians to sell products in the US ?

                      I doubt americans use Russians to sell products in Russia.
                      Absolutely the Russians have a long history of propaganda.
                      VERY BAD propaganda.

                      If Trump wanted more social media adds, he did not need the Russians.
                      Nothing in the world stopped Trump from pushing another 2TB of social media – if that is what he thought it took to win.

                      All documented contacts between the Trump campaign are with “fake russians” – who increasingly seem to be FBI/CIA or Clinton operatives.
                      Trying to sell Trump dirt on Clinton. How exactly is it criminal for Trump to try and fail at getting dirt on Clinton from Russia – particularly given that Clinton tried and succeeded.

                      We have Roger Stone – not the most reputable character, refusing to give a purported Russian $2M for dirt on Clinton.
                      Yet Clinton spent several times that on the Steele Dossier.

                      Who was it colluding with Russians again ?

                    2. dhlii,…
                      For first time ever, I, too, left the did not make a selection in the choice of presidential candidates.
                      I stated at the time of the campaign that I didn’t see an acceptable choice, that “the lesser of two evils” “endorsement😉” of a candidate didn’t work for me; they were,I
                      IMO, equally unacceptable.
                      One factor that I touched on was the media’s trumpeting of Trump’s high unfavorabilty poll numbers, but was relatively light on coverage of Hillary”s near-equally high unfavorable numbers.
                      I think you alluded to the “questionable” or “targeted” activities involving anything “Russian”.
                      Any potential connection ( of only one campaign….Trump’s) or mention of Russia sets off alarm bells and endless speculation.
                      I’m not necessarily referring to the Special Counsel investigation, although they seem to be looking under every rock.
                      The media, in general, has over-hyped any “Russia Connection” in the past by anyone associated with the Trump campaign.
                      The U.S. relationship with Russia really started to unravel in 2014, following the overthrow of the Ukrainian president.
                      And Putin’s response in taking over Crimea, and supporting the uprising in eastern Ukraine.
                      I don’t know what Krushshev and the Poliburo were thinking when they transferred control of the Crimea region from Russia to the USSR Republic of Ukraine.
                      This was done in the 1950s, and I doubt that Krushvev and co. were anticipating the collapse of the Soviet Union c.35 years later.
                      For whatever reason, it was under the control of The Ukraine by c. 1955.
                      I think Putin still has a “Soviet Union mindset”; in spite of the disolution of the USSR, he expects relatively compliant behavior from the former ( and now indepentant) Soviet Union republics.
                      His response to the uprising in The Ukraine was actually predictable.
                      An elected pro-Russian president of Ukraine, Yanakovych, is forced out of Kiev by large numbers of “demonstrators” who have killed c. 15 Kiev policemen in their “demonstrations”, taken over key government buildings, torched buses and other vehicles, etc.
                      Having a senior U.S. State Department official expressing solidarity with the “demonstrators” didn’t help matters any.
                      Now I’ve summarized the backgound/history/ context of the Russia-Ukraine standoff in several paragraphs.
                      You can read millions of words in published media reports without any mention of these critical developments that led the current tension re Russia/Ukraine.
                      As in some other cases, the media overall has done a piss-poor job of reporting on the situation in The Ukraine.
                      It’s like the fast food version of “McNews”, or the “news de joure”, when I see reporting on this issue.
                      In a roundabout way, I’m getting to the point that “the news/ history” of the Ukraine did not start in Feb. 2014.
                      And the tieing in of Manafort to the elected, then ousted, government of Yanukovych, in and of itself is not evidence of illegal behavior.
                      I’m not saying that the Special Counsel is “going there”, but much of the media is.
                      And some of the comments here imply or state that the relationship itself is suspicious and/ or “evidence” of Russian “collusion”.
                      Most of Manafort’s work and connection with The Ukraine was with an elected government in a democratic country.
                      There may well have been illegal activities comnected with Manafort’s relationship with Ukraine, but the relationship itself was not illegal.
                      When a reporter implies otherwise, by writing that Manafort was commiting crimes because of a long-term relationship with Yanukovych, that reporter will almost always fail to specify what was illegal about the relationship.
                      ( The charges brought by the Special Counsel against Manafort are more specific….I’m talking about the lousy media coverage).
                      On the “macro issue” of the Russia-Ukraine standoff, the reporting is even worse.
                      I didn’t review the Russia-Ukraine history to justify or condone Putin’s actions.
                      But that history does explain his actions…. when Putin saw an elected pro-Russian ally driven from office in the Ukraine, he went ape-sh**.
                      Didn’t mean to go on for this long, but I think some of these details tie in with what you’re saying.

                    3. Much of the mess in Ukraine/Russia is not our business.

                      I have no idea whether Manafort’s conduct was legal or not – nor do I care.
                      His political consulting was done in Ukraine and he is answerable (or not) to Ukrainian law.

                      Yes, I am well aware that both US and international law allow prosecutions like this.
                      But they should not.
                      It is a very stupid idea that makes the US policemen to the world.
                      And we arrogantly and stupidly take on that role.

                      I have zero interest in any part of the manafort indictment until it starts addressing Manaforts conduct specifically regarding the US.
                      That leaves the Logan act claim – there has never been a successful Logan act prosecution, the statute is generally considered unconstitutional.
                      And a bunch of what are essentially tax evasion claims. As I understand these were resolved with the IRS in 2014.
                      Part of the reason they were not in Mueller’s first indictment is that the IRS refused to sign on.

                      Do I think Manafort is a scurilous character ? Absolutely.

                      But we convict people of actual crimes, not our distaste for them.
                      Or atleast that is what we are supposed to do.

                    4. dhlii,…
                      One reason I reviewed some of the Russia/ Ukraine situation, and Manafort’s ties to the ( former) Ukraine government, is to point out that the association itself was not illegal.
                      Some here, and elsewhere, has implied or stated that Manafort’s consulting and lobbying work for (the now) deposed President Yanukovych was somehow illegal.
                      That Manafort role, in and of itself, is not illegal. He was an advisor to the legitimate and elected president in a democracy.
                      Since the U.S. and much of the West favored Yanukovych’s opposition, there is a perception on the part of some that Manafort could not legally advise Yanukovich.
                      Whether he committed crimes while IN that role is a different question; but being hired by the Yanukovych gvt. was not illegal.
                      Putin’s perception is that the U.S. and much of the EU went beyond “rooting for” Yanukovich’s removal.
                      I think that Ms. Nuland of the State Dept., and to a lesser extent Sec. Kerry, helped to increase Putin’s suspicions by openly favoring Yanukovich’s opposition.
                      At the time (early 2014) of the uprising against Yanukovych, I had access to all of the American news channels, as well as BBC News and one or two other European news channels.
                      There was a distinct difference between how and what the American media covered, and how foreign news channels covered the “demonstrators”.
                      In many respects, I came to favor the foreign media. The U.S. media was far less likely to show the “demonstrators” throwing Molotov Cocktails, torching vehicles, and storming and occupying government ministry buildings.
                      They were not pro-Yanukovych, but they didn’t sanitize the violence of the demonstrators, either.
                      So the U.S. media more closely mirrored the U.S. government policy and State Dept. updates on the “Orange Revolution” in The Ukraine.
                      Putin may have a grossly inflated view of American complicity in the overthrow oc Yanukovych, but his suspicions are not entirely baseless.

                    5. Tom;

                      I understand, but mostly do not care.

                      As I noted – I grasp that the US has claimed essentially global jurisdiction in many things,
                      But that is both idiotic and impossible no matter what we might claim.

                      Manafort’s acts in Ukraine are outside of a narrow scope a Ukrainian issue, not an american one.
                      As a matter of law I do not care and we should not.
                      If I or you or others have moral views – that is our own business, but it is not the business of our law enforcement.

                      Just as the movement of Manafort’s income from those actions is not our governments business until that money returns to the US.

                      Yes, the US was far to involved in the Ukraine – not the first time our state department or intelligence services mess with foreign governments to create a mess.

                      We would all be wise to read Washington’s farewell address.

                      I am not disagreeing with you on details.
                      I am merely arguing that The US government does not get to retroactively decide whether Manafort’s actions in the Ukraine were criminal.
                      Nor is his income from those actions the business of the US govenrment until it enters the US.

                      That does not mean I endorse Manafort’s conduct outside the US. Just noting that it is outside US jurisdiction,
                      and this pretense that we have global jurisdiction is dangerous.

    2. “Let’s be honest here”

      Peter Shill, if you want to be honest then accept the fact you are a race-baiter. Take note the ones that have been arguing race are people like you. The others are arguing policy that has been helping Americans of all races.

    3. “Let’s be honest here, the entire Trump movement is thinly disguised White nationalism. Almost everyone understands that.”

      Os that so ? Does Jared Kushner understand that ?
      Ben Carson’s ?

      “Therefore Trumpers can’t have it both ways. You can’t say, “I’m a White nationalist but don’t accuse me of racism”. It’s a ridiculous denial.”
      There are about 5500 Nazi’s, KKK members and other “white supremecists in the US.
      Assuming they all voted for Trump that would be 0.00084% of Trump voters.
      BTW I think that “white nationalists” are open about being racist.

      Basically your argument is a huge straw man – beat that straw man to death.

      1. sorry dude but there are a lot more than 5500 white nationals in the USA. probably at least one hundred times that number. I think that is a conservative number. probably the paranoiac adl and slpc think it’s millions

        1. Define “white nationalists” and show some stats. Otherwise, you are not adding anything to the argument but empty bytes.

        2. “probably the paranoiac adl and slpc think it’s millions”

          Only millions ? I would have thought the SPLC thinks there are billions of white supremecists in the US.

          1. dhlii,…
            – Maxine Waters might have a similar estimate.
            She claimed that 700 Billion Americans would lose there health insurance if ObamaCare was repealed.
            So given her perception of America’s population, I’m pretty sure she could find “billions” of white supremecists in the mix.😃😄

      2. Jared Kushner is a Zionist. Putting Israel’s interest above the United States. Creep should should be exiled to Israel. We are sick and tired of sending our tax dollars to that dispicalbe regime and putting our military on the line.

        1. Absolutely! We should be sending our money to the Syrians or Saudi’s or the Iranian’s or the PLO!!

          I will have sympathy for the Palestinians when they give a damn about their own people rather than their hatred of Israelis and their desire to exterminate them.

          I would note that in 1950 there were jews and christians througout the mideast.
          Now there are very few left outside of Israel.

          Why ? Because the only people in the mideast not engaged in genocide and religious persecution are the Israeli’s.

          Left wing nuts are clueless.

          You actually support people who still stone women who are raped, engage in genital multiation of women, and are just about the most homophobic, racist, mysoginist groups in the world.

          These are the downtrodden people you are defending ?

          Israel is far from perfect, but in comparison to the rest of the mideast, they are angels.

      3. Proportionately, relative to size of population, there may be more “black nationalists” than white.
        Farrakhan’s Nation of Islam by itself has an estimated 25,000-50,000 membership.
        I don’t know if Rep. Ellison …..aka Keith Hakim” …..has maintained his relationship with Farrakhan or not.

    4. Peter Hill – since the Civil War, we have been having racial problems, even before then. Probably starting in 1617 when the first blacks came to America. There is some controversy over whether they were slaves or indentured servants, but it probably started there. All through Obama’s administration, there were racial problems. How soon you forget.

        1. No, media whores (Ryan Julison and Ben Crump) and sorosphere rent-a-crowd were a problem, along with politicians who had no business occupying the offices they did (Angela Corey, Marilyn Mosby, Stephanie Blake, and Jay Nixon, I’m looking at you). Obama and Holder made pests out of themselves and made bad situations marginally worse. It’s not in character for either man to actually improve anything.

    5. What tripe. So, you just identified yourself as someone who sees everything through the prism of race. What a sad, pathetic man you are.

  7. The new communistic social paradigm: Minorities are the “untouchables.”

    Of course, that is entirely unconstitutional and merely of the Communist Manifesto.

    This cretin is a product of “Affirmative Action Privilege,” quotas, welfare, food stamps, forced busing, “Fair Housing,” “Non-Discrimination,” WIC, HAMP, HARP, Obamacare, social services, etc., etc., etc.

    Behavior is as free as the “free stuff” is abundant in communist America.

    There are consequences to the repeal of the Constitution and the imposition of the principles of communism in America.

    There is no fear of class or social constraint and no fear of ostracism.

    The “Law of the Jungle,” Rudyard Kipling, 1922, prevails.

    There is no respect for superiors because the estates of the superiors have been “redistributed.”

    Constitutional freedom of thought, speech, belief, discrimination, assembly and socialization would not tolerate such insolence.

    Adding insult to injury, the communists instruct us not to use the c-word, communist…oh, and the n-word.

      by Rudyard Kipling

      It was not part of their blood,
      It came to them very late,
      With long arrears to make good,
      When the Saxon began to hate.

      They were not easily moved,
      They were icy — willing to wait
      Till every count should be proved,
      Ere the Saxon began to hate.

      Their voices were even and low.
      Their eyes were level and straight.
      There was neither sign nor show
      When the Saxon began to hate.

      It was not preached to the crowd.
      It was not taught by the state.
      No man spoke it aloud
      When the Saxon began to hate.

      It was not suddently bred.
      It will not swiftly abate.
      Through the chilled years ahead,
      When Time shall count from the date
      That the Saxon began to hate.

      1. “Fake news.”

        Rudyard Kipling (1865–1936). Verse: 1885–1918. 1922.

        The Beginnings


        IT was not part of their blood,
        It came to them very late
        With long arrears to make good,
        When the English began to hate.

        They were not easily moved,
        They were icy-willing to wait
        Till every count should be proved,
        Ere the English began to hate.

        Their voices were even and low,
        Their eyes were level and straight.
        There was neither sign nor show,
        When the English began to hate.

        It was not preached to the crowd,
        It was not taught by the State.
        No man spoke it aloud,
        When the English began to hate.

        It was not suddenly bred,
        It will not swiftly abate,
        Through the chill years ahead,
        When Time shall count from the date
        That the English began to hate.

    2. Free stuff like corporate welfare? Tax breaks for billionaires? Is that the ‘free stuff’ you mean?

      1. Free markets love insolvency. Bankruptcy for one represents opportunity for others. Maximum efficiency exists in competitive free markets. Free enterprise allows insolvent businesses to be liquidated. They were the communists who bailed out corporations, not free Americans engaging in free enterprise.

        The severe recession was a result of the interference by communists in free markets just as the 1930 recession was exacerbated into the “Great Depression” by Roosevelt’s idiotic intervention. Mrl Market always knows best and Mr. Market must never be hindered. The communistic interventionist “Fed” should have raised interest rates in the late 90’s. Maxine Waters et al. should have never been heard and demands for “mortgages” for the have-not minorities and the “poor” who would default should have never been considered – the commuist-imposed “white gulit” prevailed.

        Free enterprise has cycles. Communists frame cycles as evil which is akin to calling tornadoes, hurricanes and earthquakes evil. Communists lie simply to obtain personal power, telling citizens that they have the intelligence, acumen and power to abolish free market cyclicality. Of course, they have no such thing. Only Mr. Market has power over markets and you don’t mess with Mr. Market. Fortunately for Americans, the Constitution does not provide for redistribution of wealth to individuals or groups of individuals (i.e. corporations). The problem for America is that the communists have nullified and voided the Constitution in all but name.

        Next quesion?

      2. I am opposed to all welfare – corporate or otherwise.

        I am opposed to government stealing money from anyone. Any taxation beyond that to support those functions that are critical and can not be accomplished without the use of force is theft.

        1. Any taxation beyond that to support those functions that are critical and can not be accomplished without the use of force is theft.

          Bastiat calls it Legal Plunder.

        2. Article 1, Section 8, Clause 1

          Congress has merely the power to tax for “…general Welfare…” deliberately omitting and, thereby, excluding individual welfare.

          Corporations are not general they are individual corporations comprised of individuals.

          General welfare is ALL – WELL – GET ALONG – commodities and services that all people use in similar amounts – Roads, water, currency, sewer, self-funding post office (communication 1789), utilities, etc.

          There is no individual welfare and no free enterprise/private property welfare provided for in the Constitution.

          Free enterprise entities love bankruptcies and insolvencies – they feed off them.

          Government has no authority to interfere in free enterprise.

          There is absolutely no need to interfere in free enterprise.

          It is the nature of communists to be dictators in search of personal power – Bill and Hillary – they have no clue about how to do anything – they just desire and seek personal power.

          Fortunately the Constitution provides freedom for individuals without any form of interference by government.

          Communism has been illegally forced on Americans by democrats.

          P.S. The preposterous and “fake” corporate tax is double taxation of citizens and it is not paid by corporations, corporate tax is paid by the customers of the corporation – that would be you and me and everyone else, not the corporations.

            1. Have you? It does not regulate businesses it regulates the commerce generated by businesses. It regulates commerce (i.e. commercial activity) it does not CREATE, DESIGN and CONDUCT free enterprise which comprises commerce. It does not regulate free enterprises which are private property it regulates commerce executed by free enterprises which are private property. It does not mandate the manipulation or “corruption” of commerce for the benefit of any particular individual, class, group of individuals or state.



              – definition

              1 : social intercourse : interchange of ideas, opinions, or sentiments

              … a negotiated peace that will reestablish intellectual commerce among them … —P. B. Rice

              2 : the exchange or buying and selling of commodities on a large scale involving transportation from place to place

              a major center of commerce

              interstate commerce

              3 : sexual intercourse

    3. Manufactured from the eerily unapproachable nooks and crannies of what you consider to be your “mind.” Thanks for your contribution–I think.

      this is to “in the olden days, I woulda been one of the ‘superiors'” georgie

  8. Jon sez: “We have often discussed the rising incivility and anger in our political discourse.” You mean, for instance, Trump’s conduct last night, wherein he mocked Senators John McCain and Elizabeth Warren? What did either of them have to do with his appearance at that political rally? The answer, of course, is so the attention junkie could get the whoops and cheers his pathetic soul needs, because, God knows, he’s failing at everything else.

    Everything about Trump is odious to sensible people, including the majority of Americans. A MAGA hat is intended by its wearer as a symbolic flip of the bird. That doesn’t entitle people to attack the wearer, but when the President consistently engages in immature behavior, what do you expect?

    1. “…consistently engages in immature behavior, what do you expect?”

      I expect people to be adult enough and of sufficient self discipline to not commit crimes based on someone’s clothing. What is wrong with you? Maybe when the left is protesting gun ownership, they have you in mind.

      1. Trump stands for many bad things, but the most repugnant to American values at this time is the human rights violations he requires the U.S. Border Patrol and ICE to commit when they arrest families with children. This is not a political issue–it is a human rights issue. Intentionally causing emotional distress to innocent children is egregiously un-American. We don’t cage young children in this country who have done nothing wrong. Caging young children IS a crime against humanity.

        “MAGA” is an in-your-face statement of support for Agent Orange, who has ramped up incivility to an unprecedented degree. When the POTUS mocks people and engages in name-calling, why would you expect mere citizens to behave better? I’m not defending assaults, merely explaining them. Agent Orange thinks that the Charlottesville protester has blame for getting run over by a White Supremacist. Using his logic, the MAGA-hat wearer is also asking for it, and shouldn’t complain if he gets his ass kicked.

        1. This is not a political issue–it is a human rights issue. Intentionally causing emotional distress to innocent children is egregiously un-American. We don’t cage young children in this country who have done nothing wrong. Caging young children IS a crime against humanity.

          As “compassionate” sounding as you seem to believe your post is, you are being naive and outright dishonest if you believe the actions of ICE are intended to cause emotional distress. You need to begin your assessment at the root. Ask yourself how these children end up within the jurisdiction of ICE, or if you prefer, the law enforcement jurisdiction of the United States? These innocent children were brought within our jurisdiction at the hands of adults intentionally causing emotional distress on these children.

          Did these adults seek to limit that distress by seeking asylum at any one of the US consulates along the way? Apparently not. So what should our law enforcement agencies do with children that are being abused by the adults supposedly caring for them? Well if you haven’t noticed, CPS here in the United States separates the children from those adults and then a legal process begins to reunite these children with those adults or others proven to be responsible caregivers. Are our local sheriffs and CPS agents considered to be Intentionally causing emotional distress to innocent children, or are they following reasonable protocol to deal with the bad adults that haveIntentionally caused emotional distress to innocent children?

          Caging young children IS a crime against humanity. Ya think!? What about dragging those young children passed multiple locations, under hostile conditions, to those cages?

          1. Session said that those trying to enter our country will know that their kids will be taken away, and that merely having kids with you makes no difference–you will be arrested and separated. Can you seriously claim that Trump and Sessions don’t know that it would be emotionally stressful for a child to be separated from his or her parents in a country where they don’t understand English? The purpose for separating families was to cause distress to them, as a deterrent to others attempting to enter, and Sessions own words prove this. There are no national security or other valid reasons for doing this, other than as political leverage. Trump thought he could force Congress to foot the bill for the border wall by leveraging crying children in cages. Didn’t work. People seeking asylum in this country are not “bad adults”, either. They have a legal right to seek asylum.

            As today’s emergency motion for extension of time to comply with the court order for reunification shows, Trump’s Administration never had any plans or procedures in place for family reunification. In fact, some of these migrants have told reporters they were told that the younger kids would be placed for adoption with American families and that they’d never see them until they were at least 18.

            Your “blame the victim” argument isn’t going to fly, either. It’s like the wife-beater who blames his wife because she does something he doesn’t like: “it’s your fault you made me do this to you.”

            1. Can you seriously claim that Trump and Sessions don’t know that it would be emotionally stressful for a child to be separated from his or her parents in a country where they don’t understand English?

              Nope, and I never did. You’re dodging the issue. These children began their journey under emotional stress. Your argument fails in a similar way that it would blaming CPS and local law enforcement for taking custody of children put at risk by their parents/caregivers.

              There are no national security or other valid reasons for doing this, other than as political leverage.

              Wow! Because no rational adult would ever use children as a “shield” for their harmful intent? Because no loving adult would “intentionally” bypass multiple US consulates to seek asylum and put their children at additional risk? Of course this issue is being used for political leverage, by the Left.

              People seeking asylum in this country are not “bad adults”, either. They have a legal right to seek asylum.

              And our government has the legitimate authority to verify the very adults that intentionally put the children under their “care” in harm’s way are not bad adults. They had a legal right to seek asylum in many, many locations along the way. Yet they opted for the illegal route.

              Try again.

              1. Not dodging the ISSUE at all: The ISSUE is forced separation. What purpose does forced separation serve? Now, it appears you are attempting to argue that merely bringing their children from South America is a form of child abuse or neglect, so therefore, ICE and Border Patrol are helping the kids by separating them from their families. This is so disingenuous it must have come from Fox News/Breitbart. The difference between CPS and Border Patrol separating children from their families is that children taken by CPS have evidence of abuse or neglect. Merely attempting to enter the US without a visa does not constitute abuse or neglect, BUT, and is this is a big, fat Trump-sized Butt–Sessions said what the reason is: that is to send a message to would-be immigrants that they will be separated from their kids if they try to come here. Once again, the words used by the Trump Administration hang him and prevent Fox/Breitbart from dreaming up an alternative cover story.

                1. The ISSUE is forced separation.

                  In your politicized tunnel vision, that’s your issue; the fundamental issue is the health, safety and security of children.

                  Hauling children from their home country to presumably seek asylum in the United States, bypassing a multitude of available consulates along the way and ultimately choosing not to cross at a legal port of entry, DOES NOT reflect the behavior of someone concerned with the physical and mental health of the children in their custody.

                  The difference between CPS and Border Patrol separating children from their families is that children taken by CPS have evidence of abuse or neglect.

                  Wow! Are you seriously that ignorant about the conditions these children have been subjected to BEFORE ending up in the custody of US law enforcement? Do you believe every adult with a child in tow should not be properly vetted to make sure that child isn’t part of a trafficking scheme? You are one bat-guano crazy individual. Damn!

                2. Natacha – regardless of your age, entering the United States without a visa is a misdemeanor or a felony. As such, the parents have endangered the life of the child(ren) and need to be separated from them. We separate children from criminal parents all the time. No one is crying about the white or black kids who are separated from their criminal parents, just the brown ones on the border. That is insane. Get a grip. There is no RIGHT is enter the US.

                  1. Nutchacha cares only about that which she desires, which is the compelling criterion; the law be damned. FYI, there is no provision for individual welfare or “Affirmative Action Privilege” in the Constitution and yet Comrade Nutchacha takes full advantage of both, entirely without regard for the verbatim Constitution. “The ends justify the means.” “From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.”

                3. When the government takes custody of an adult for a crime, they are ALWAYS separated from their non-adult children.

                  There is no issue here.

                  If you do not like that – change the law.

                4. Parents are responsible for their children. If they volunatarily make choices that they foreseably know involve risk to their children including the possibility of separation, while that MIGHT not be child abuse – it is still their responsibility.

                  ICE is following the law. If you do not like the law – change it.

                  We do not even know these kids belong to the people they are traveling with.
                  Most likely do – but not all.
                  Should we presume that because some adult crosses with a child that they are that childs parent and not a traficker ?

                  No all children taken from their parents are not victims of abuse or neglect.

                  If you commit a crime, and are incarcerated, and there is no other family member to take your child, that child will end up in government care.
                  About 24K/year.

                  All facts you do not like do not come from brietbart or fox. Nor are all facts from brietbart or fox wrong – just as NYT is sometimes right.

                  “Merely attempting to enter the US without a visa” is a crime. One you can be incarecerated for pending a hearing.
                  We do not incarcerate children with their parents. There are a variety of legal reasons we can not do that.
                  Again – change the law.

                  “that is to send a message to would-be immigrants that they will be separated from their kids if they try to come here”
                  Could be true. So long as it is within the law, what is your problem with that ?

                  We sentence murders to life or execution to “send a message”.

                  What you incentivize you will get more of.
                  What you dis-incentivize you get less or. Even left wing nuts usually grasp that.

                  “Once again, the words used by the Trump Administration hang him and prevent Fox/Breitbart from dreaming up an alternative cover story.”

                  I do not care what their word are.
                  I do not care what the cover story is.

                  If what is being done is not legal – it must end.
                  If it is, and it offends us – we must change the law.

                  It is left wing nuts that fixate on why.

                  I do not care why you murdered someone. I care IF you murdered someone.

              2. We do not allow anyone into the country who is not a “bad adult” – that is not the standard.

                If we want that as the standard – we must change the law.

            2. Dealing with government is emotionally stressful – get over that.

              In the instance of those caught crossing the border it is also avoidable.

              I have little sympathy for those who hold a candle to their hand and are surprised when they get burned.

              This is not “blame the victim”. You are not a victim when what occurs is the foreseeable consequences of your own actions.

              Those who are crossing the border are not free to do so.
              That is the only justification that is necescary.

              You keep trying to make this bizzarre argument that somehow border crossers should be protected from the foreseable consequences of their own choices.

              But your argument if we actually built a wall and those trying to get in ran head long into it repeatedly injuring themselves, that would be Trump’s fault ?

              Of course Trump is trying to leverage “liberal tears” to get much of what he wants – in return for some of what the left wants.

              Democrats are not taking him up on that – fine, but they share culpability.

              The issue of dreamers and child separation and many other things are all resolvable.
              Nobody is going to get everything they want.

              But something like 80% of the country would support the most draconian bill the GOP has offered.

              You are on the wrong side of the issue.

              With respect to “courts” – thus far Trump has won everything he has asked of SCOTUS – just as Obama has lost.
              I am not particularly interested in lower courts as there are way too many idiot judges who can not read the constitution.

          2. If you bring a child thousands of miles and cross the border illegally,
            you have behaved negligently as a parent.

            Personally I would prefer immediate deportation for those caught crossing the border outside of checkpoints.

            Further we have little way of knowing what children belong to what parents.
            It is know that children are being trafficked accross the border,

            It is pretty much a requirement to separate the children and actually determine who their parents are.

            There is no “crime against humanity” here.

            1. Here’s what’s wrong with your reasoning: Trump does NOT care about either the migrants or their kids. He’s referred to them as “infesting OUR country”, which is as racist and xenophobic as it gets, so any belated claim of concern is yet another lie. He doesn’t care if the little ones are being trafficked, either. Sessions already said why it was being done: to send a message, and to punish those who come here without a visa. That is a human-rights violation, and Kellyanne and Fox/Breitbart cannot spin it any other way.

              1. “Trump does NOT care about either the migrants or their kids”
                facts, logic, reason have nothing to so with emotions, feelings.

                You are free to act on your emotions within your own life.
                You are not free to use force against others – and that is what govenrment is. based on your feelings.

                There is nothing wrong with my reasoning.
                You are rebutting logic with an appeal to emotion – that is a logical fallacy.
                It is your reason that is flawed.

                If you FEEL the law is wrong – change the law.

                “which is as racist and xenophobic as it gets”
                There are 750m people throughout the world who would come here if they could.
                Are you planning on taking them all ?

                Unless you are prepared to do so, then you are going to have to say no to alot of people.

                THIS is the issue.

                YOU and the rest of the left are unwilling to actually expose yourselves as favoring open borders and dealing with the real world consequences of that.
                I BTW favor open borders – but I understand that you can not have open borders and an entitlement state.
                One has got to go.

                Given that you are unwilling to do what it would actually take to have open borders.
                The question that remains is how many are you allowing in each year and what are your criteria.

                You are pummelling Trump for the way he has made “sophies choice”.
                All fine, but you are unwilling to committ to how you would resolve the issue.

                Are you going to allow all these people crossing to stay ?
                If you do you will rapidly find the numbers rising exponentially.

                If you allow those crossing the mexican border in – are you going to accept less asians ?

                Isnt that xenophobic and racist ?

                Get a clue, unless you are going to argue openly for open border AND the consequeces that come with that,
                Then you too are inherently going to have to make a “racist” and “xenophobic” choice.

                It is not better to be prejudiced against yellow people than brown people.

                Get a clue, life involves tough choices.

                Making them does nto make you racist.

        2. he didnt get his butt kicked. Kino knocked a hat off his head and threw water on him. the kid is fine and has learned the lesson of a lifetime. kino did plus one for Team Trump, this video is golden! thanks kino for the major PR assistance. flyover is ready and good to go!

          1. The only people who rejoice at this sort of things are in the basket of deplorables. No amount of PR is ever going to cause the majority of Americans to accept Trump.

            1. well i guess that depends on who you think is an american. I exempt the 13 million illegal aliens for starters and then I also exempt however many lawful migrants who are not naturalized. they dont vote or arent supposed to at least. now all the other naturalized migrants and their chain relatives well i guess i can understand now as to all the natives? well they either have a brain and can think about what’s in their own interests, or not!

              1. Mr Kurtz – there are probably 30 million illegal aliens

            2. ‘No amount of PR is ever going to cause the majority of Americans to accept Trump.”

              There is very little variance between Trump’s approval rating at any point in the first 18months of his term and Obama’s at the same time.
              Yet Trump has been attack far more relentlessly than Obama, in a more organized fashion and by a much larger portion of the media.

              Not only do I predict that the majority of americans will accept Trump.
              I predict that he will win in 2020 by double digits.

              I could be wrong – as could you.
              A prediction is not a fact.
              Trump was elected, Clinton was not.
              Almost 65M voters “accepted Trump”.

              Had he lost – that still would have meant almost 65M voters rejected Clinton the left and democrats.

              the political divide in the US at the moment REQUIRES, that all further expansions of govenrment is that which nearly all of us can agree on.
              But that even a minority can reduce what government does.

              1. Dhlii,…
                I was checking some historical poll numbers just the other day.
                It tracked approval ratings for Trump, and previous presidents back to Truman, at the same stage of their administrations.
                I think it was c.535 days into their presidency, the same length of time Trump has been president.
                At this stage of his administration, Obama was about 5 points ahead of Trump, with Trump at c.41% at Obama at c.46% approval ratings.
                Bush 43, Obama’s predecesser, at this stage was at c. 67%, over 20 points ahead of Obama.
                ( Bush 41 was, at his highest point, close to 90% in the approval rating.
                I think that was right after Gulf War One, about 2 years, two months into his administration).
                Bush 41 maintained a pretty high approval rating throughout his administration, but was a one-term president.
                Obama was way behind Bush 41 at most stages of his presidency, but got reelected.
                A particular poll number at a given point in time isn’t that good of predictor of what will happen at the polls ( “voting” polls).
                Those numbers are interesting to monitor currently, especially in comparison with the last c. 11-12 presidents.
                But they are of limited value in forecasting what will happen on election day.

                1. I would agree with your assessment.

                  To be clear I am not claiming that you can predict based on polls and approval ratings.

                  I am claiming that you can not – but that if you insist on trying – there is little difference between Trump and Obama.

                  You can not argue that Trump’s low approval is determinative without explaining how Obama was re-elected

        3. Human rights violations ?

          There is no right to tresspass.

          If you attempt to cross the border outside of a crossing, you can expect to be detained, and deported, or just deported.
          There are no rights at issue.

          BTW parents who commit crimes are arrested in the US all the time – and separated from their children.

          I am libertarian, I support open borders – though that would require alot of other changes that the left is not willing to face.
          But I am not stupid.
          There is no right to be a US citizen, or a US resident.

          I would prefer that we did not criminalize those crossing the border improperly.
          But I have zero problems with taking those caught crossing the border and deporting them immediately
          without a hearing.

        4. Trump is not civil.

          Neither is the left.

          Trump was elected in large part in response to the incivility of the left.

          I did not vote for him and mostly do not like him. But I judge him on what he has done, not what th left says about him.

          Beyond that even I cheer when he verbally body slams the left and the media.
          A comeupance is well overdue, and I have no problems savoring the verbal pummelling of the left.

          Words are not a justification for violence.
          If you can not tell the difference between speech and violence – your education was horribly inadequate.

          You earn respect, being treated civilly. That is not a right.
          You are entitled to be safe from the violence of others – that is a right.

          For the most part Charlottesville was about 500 from the right, defending themselves against pummeling by 5000 on the left.

          Tragedy occured when a schitzophrenic lost it.
          That tragedy had nothing to do with ideology or white supremecy.

          I would also suggest that you read an awful lot into things that are not there.

          You can not even accurately offer Trump’s remarks.

        5. Certainly you weren’t born yesterday, they’ve been locking up people since about 1994. Yet, you let some TV presenter push your buttons. So I guess we’ve established that you are unable to do any reasonable analysis since your limbic system turns it off.

      2. Claptrap, nonsense and hooey. But that hat looks good on you, though.

        this is to “sometimes when I git drunker than cooter brown, i just make up sh*t for the hell of it” slohie

    2. Elizabeth Warren, who gamed the AA system at Harvard Law School by claiming an Amerindian ancestry she doesn’t have, is eminently mockable.

      And when you read the article Newsweek produced (with the headline claiming he ‘mocked’ McCain and Bush the Elder, :(“Donald Trump Mocked Both John McCain, Who Is Dying, and George H.W. Bush, Who Just Lost His Wife, at Montana Rally”) you get this:

      Before thousands at the Montana rally, Trump did not mention either leader by name but chided McCain for his vote against the president’s repeal-and-replace measure for Obamacare last year. Trump also bashed a common campaign slogan of Bush’s, a “thousand points of light,” which was a call for volunteerism and symbolized diversity around the country. The current commander-in-chief said he never understood the phrase.”Thousand points of light,” Trump said. “What does that mean? I know one thing: Make America Great Again we understand. Putting America first we understand.

      There’s a reason the President wasn’t quoted directly in re McCain. The media lies. All the time and about everything. Natacha is happy to lie along with them.

      1. “It’s all the media’s fault”, what a convenient cop-out.

          1. Oh ya? I’m white and I attack you, your ilk, your fellow travelers, and anyone who propagates the filth that you do. Riddle me that, Batman. Or am I a “race traitor” in your warped, ideologically-skewed mind?

            this is to “you know, maybe pure white would be best” kurtzie

            1. Marky Mark Mark – you would make a poor Riddler, you don’t know the difference between a riddle and a statement.

            2. “Oh ya? I’m white and I attack you, your ilk, your fellow travelers, and anyone who propagates the filth that you do. Riddle me that, Batman. Or am I a “race traitor” in your warped, ideologically-skewed mind?

              this is to “you know, maybe pure white would be best” kurtzie”

              Rather than spray insults, why don’t you make valid logical arguments rooted in fact ?

              You are not going to persuade anyone by insulting them.
              I would have thought that you might have learned that from the 2016 election.

        1. Who else am I going to hold responsible when Newsweek puts up a headline that’s a lie? Tinkerbell?

        2. ““It’s all the media’s fault”, what a convenient cop-out.”

          What the left does not expect accuracy from the media ?

          It appears that the claims that Trump insulted Bush and McCain are without foundation.

          He offered to pay Warren $1M to take a DNA test.

          Fauxcahantus is a problem of Warren’s own making.
          She is just going to have to deal with it.

      2. From Newsweek:

        “President Donald Trump again faces heavy criticism for his comments at a campaign rally Thursday night about cancer-stricken U.S. Senator John McCain and former President George H.W. Bush, who recently lost his wife of 73 years, Barbara.

        Before thousands at the Montana rally, Trump did not mention either leader by name but chided McCain for his vote against the president’s repeal-and-replace measure for Obamacare last year.

        Trump also bashed a common campaign slogan of Bush’s, a “thousand points of light,” which was a call for volunteerism and symbolized diversity around the country. The current commander-in-chief said he never understood the phrase.

        “Thousand points of light,” Trump said. “What does that mean? I know one thing: Make America Great Again we understand. Putting America first we understand. Thousand points of light, I never quite got that one. What the hell is that? Has anyone ever figured that one out? It was put out by a Republican wasn’t it.”

        McCain announced he had been diagnosed with brain cancer a year ago, and he famously shot down the Obamacare repeal on the Senate floor despite his life-threatening disease.”

        So, Mr. “five deferments” is chiding a dying U.S. Senator who bravely fought for his country, because his vote denied him the acclamation and “promises kept” he so desperately craves? You are trying to parce words here, pal, and it won’t work. He was mocking a U.S. war hero. In any event, what did Senator McCain’s “no” vote on Obamacare have to do with the Montana campaign? He also mocked Bush 1, another war veteran, for his “thousand points of light”, which Fatso doesn’t understand.

        1. YAWN McCain is a war monger and goes on to his final reward such as that may be. Democrats never really liked him unless he was cheering on some of their needless belligerent actions like Hillary’s destablization of Libya.

        2. He had a student deferment which lasted from 1964 to 1968. He had a I-Y deferment which lasted from mid-1968 to the end of 1969. He was not re-examined after 1969 because his lottery number was quite high.

          John McCain has been an elected official for 35 years. If he didn’t wish to be taken to task for his votes in Congress, he could have avoided that very effectively by doing something else with his life after leaving the Navy. Failing that, he could have retired from Congress after his fourth term in the Senate. Instead, he stayed, made himself obnoxious and abrasive to Trump in 2016-17, continued to remain in Congress after receiving a terminal diagnosis, remains in Congress even though he hasn’t been seen on Capitol Hill in about 5 months, and continues to make himself an irritant by allowing his wife and daughter to post on Twitter.

          1. Let’s see, now, you respect and admire someone who took 5 deferments for a treatable heel spur, but disrespect a man who fought for his country, endured torture and proudly served the State of Arizona for decades because he won’t support an emotionally immature reality TV star who conned his way into the White House?

            1. Let’s see, now, you respect and admire someone who took 5 deferments for a treatable heel spur, but disrespect a man who fought for his country, endured torture and proudly served

              I don’t respect people who are innumerate and who lie. And that’s you. Learn to count.

              He had a student deferment from 1964 to 1968. He had a I-Y deferment from mid 1968 to the end of 1969. Hundreds of thousands of I-Y deferments were issued every year, Natacha. There wasn’t anything unusual about the severity of what induced the deferment. I knew a man who was given one for eczema on his feet. Other received them for being underweight, others for being overweight. Hendrick Hertzberg was mustered out of the Navy in 1968 because he bled a lot during some dental work.

            2. Natacha – there is no proof that McCain ever underwent torture and I can tell you from experience that he did not proudly represent the citizens of AZ after Barry Goldwater died. He represented himself and his own interests. One of the problems was that since he becomes more and more powerful in the Senate it became harder to defeat him. Jeffy Flake was no problem, he had no power, so no problemo.

              1. Haha. Nice. Here, let me show you a nice area known as “reality.” unfortunately, you won’t find anything about “Kenyan”, “Area 51”, “Benghazi”, “Seth”, “Whitewater”, or patriotic trumpettes.

                this is to “you know, I’d sell my mother out iffen I could just one time whip a darky” paulie

                1. Marky Mark Mark – my mother has been dead for over 30 years. You really are a twit.

            3. You seem to think that not only is everything binary, but that binary decisions on one issue cover everything.

              I respect many things that McCain has done, and I am offended by others.
              I am offended by many things Trump has done, and I respect others.

              Whether I support Trump or McCain where they differ depends on the issue.

              If the question is personal character McCain’s is superior to Trump’s – as Trump’s is superior to Clinton’s (either).
              Though even McCain has some skeleton’s.

              If the issue is specific policies – you will have to address each policy individually.
              There is no chose Trump/McCain rule that is driven by their respective conduct in Vietnam.
              Trump obviously loses that particular aspect of the character conflict.

              Trump was elected because he persuaded voters.
              His current approval is higher than in Nov. 2016.
              I have not heard a Trump Clinton poll recently, but everyone I have heard after the election has Trump beating Clinton today by more than before.

              Trump is in the whitehouse because almost 65M voters chose that, because he won something like 330 electoral votes.

        3. So all US POWs are entitled to be US Senators, who can vote as they please without criticism ?

          I do not think that is the freedom they fought for.

          Trump’s comments were not out of line.

          Trump has said far more offensive things about McCain.

          I have enormous respect for Lt. Cmdr John McCain, not so much for Sen. John McCain.

          Just as I have respect for Cmdr Cunningham, but not so much for Rep. Cunningham.

        4. Nataha – McCain has attacked Trump from his deathbed and then tried to hide behind his wife and pending death for protection. The man does not have the honor to retire so he can be replaced and AZ can have two Senators in DC. And I am with Trump on “a thousand points of light” that is really vague. I never understood it.

    3. I expect that MAGA hat wearers begin to fully exercise their rights of self defense with fierce anger, thus to protect our free speech rights from intimidation

      1. Ah. Another spout by one of our keyboard warriors. Pro tip: wise men say: “don’t let your alligator mouth override your hummingbird a*s.”

        this is to “I hope those “youts” aren’t looking my way” kurtzie

        1. Again – do you have an argument ?

          Ad Hominem is not argument.
          You do not persuade anyone by insulting them.

    4. McCain deserves respect for his service to the country.

      That does not make everything he does right nor make him immune from criticism.

      There is now substantial evidence that McCain was an active participant and possibly the driving force behind the IRS targetting tea party groups durring the obama administration.

      Absolutely he deserves to be insulted over that.
      He also had a small role in the Steel Dossier and the should be insulted over that.

      Fauxchanatas asked for what she is getting.

      Warren is the leading candidate of democrats in 2020 at this point.
      She has a huge bullseye on here back.
      That comes with the teritory.
      If she does not like that – I am sure harvard will take he back.

    5. “A MAGA hat is intended by its wearer as a symbolic flip of the bird.”

      A MAGA hat means many things – including sometimes flipping the bird at lefites.

    1. I love the logic: A person on the Right is verbally uncivil, ipso facto it’s perfectly kosher for someone on the Left to assault his supporter. Who cares about rebuking the right person or even proportionality in response? I feel bad so I can lash out. Oh, the Left is in for a rude awakening that they really won’t like in the Fall. And if they keep ratcheting up the violence, they’ll end up with a stay in the Hoodlum Hotel courtesy of the state.

      1. mespo: Democrats have flipped over 40 races since Agent Orange took office. Your pipe dreams about the “left” having a “rude awakening” are just that. People are fed up with Trump, his tribalism, his immature and uncivil behavior, and lack of leadership. Why do you think McConnell, et al, are scrambling to try to shove a radical conservative onto the SCOTUS? They know the blue wave is coming and it’s their last chance to screw America for generations to come.

        1. the Left has control of nothing in the state or federal government apparatus and are about to get an insurmountable comeuppance in the SCOTUS as well as the entirety of the federal appellate bench. The races Dems have won are all about being more like Trump than against him. I’d say Agent Orange is toxic to the Left.

        2. “They know the blue wave is coming and it’s their last chance to screw America for generations to come.”

          I’m afraid you’re in for a huge surprise coming up. Hold onto your chair and keep all sharp objects out of reach.

          1. Have you read the results of poll after poll? Maybe you should, so you don’t have a stroke come November.

            1. Yes, I have, Natacha. The surveys complied by Rothenberg indicate that at this time the Democrats are favored to pick up 11 Republican seats in the House and lose one or two Democratic seats in the Senate.

            2. There are lots of different polls out there.
              Further the polsters have had a pretty bad streak for a couple of years,
              they got both Trump and Brexit way wrong.

              I beleive the generic ballot is back to +3d – that likely means the GOP picks up seats in the Senate and holds the house.
              But the trend favors the GOP.

              Further I keep getting numerous demographic surveys noting that Trump’s support among millenials, blacks and hispanics has risen significantly.
              That is not consistent with the broader polls. Someone is wrong.
              Maybe it is republicans. Maybe not.

              Democrats have not done horribly in the special elections – but they have not done as well as Republicans did in 2009.
              There is not a lot of reason to beleive there is going to be a big blue wave in November.

              Of course November is a long way off. Lots can happen.

        3. You’re a product of a public school education, right? Trump’s approval rating equals or exceeds The Kenyan (Geezis Soetoro Obama) at the same point in each’s first term.

          You flunked math, right?

        4. Post 2008 the TP flipped 2300 seats accross the country.
          40 seats is noise.

          I have no idea what is coming in 2018.
          I also have no faith in the people who said that Clinton was 90% certain to win in 2016.
          The same people who said the UK would not vote for Brexit.

          At this point I think the polls are dubious.
          Rassmussen and several others Have Trump ahead of Obama at the same time period.

          There are a number of polls saying that Millenials are shifting right faster than any prior generation.
          That there has been a 16 point right shift in white male millenials who are now heavily Trump and a smaller one in millenials overall
          Millenials are the largest single voting cohort and a group that has been reliably democratic.

          Trump has increased his support among minorities. His support among blacks and hispanics are purportedly the highest that republicans have managed in decades.

          At the same time some pundits are predicting a blue wave.

          We will see in November.
          But I am not counting on anything.
          And democrats seem intent on F’ing up.

          1. “I also have no faith in the people who said that Clinton was 90% certain to win in 2016.”

            Well, I feel that’s a good reminder. And, I add that is also where a lot of the animosity on this blog comes from. Many of the libby type here were scoffing at Trump. I kept hearing about the polls, yet I knew no one (save three women) who were Clinton supporters. Pretty much the same now.

            1. There is plenty of evidence at the moment to conclude anything you want about November.

              My instincts say that the angry left is burning itself out, but at the same time energizing the rest of us.

              But I could be wrong. I did not predict 2016, though I had more doubts than most.

              I knew that Trump had targeted the Rust belt – everyone knew it.
              But I did not think he stood a snowballs chance in hell of pulling that off.

              When Trump barely won FL, that put him on track for victory with FL, NH, NV and a 270/268 electoral vote win.
              I knew things were over when PA went for Trump.
              Clinton was supposed to be a 4-6 point favorite in PA

              Regardless, right up to nearly midnight election day very few people thought Trump was winning.

              This is also what annoys me about this stupid Russia did it meme.

              What idiot thinks that Russian FB adds added millions of votes to Trump in the rust belt ?
              Because Trump did several million votes better than Romney in the rust belt and that is what changed the outcome.

              I honestly do not care if Russia successfully persuaded millions of voters.
              Persuasion is not force.

              At the same time – I am not stupid. That did not happen. If persuading voters was that easy neither Clinton nor trump would have gone to the Russians.
              Persuading voters is incredibly hard, and the russians are thoroughly inept at it.

        5. The Senate map is absolutely horrible for democrats.

          The odds – even at the peak of the “blue wave” claims were about 50:50 that republicans would GAIN two seats.

          To take the senate – democrats need a Tsunami. That is unlikely.

          Statiscal odds favor Trump getting one more SCOTUS appointment between now and 2020 – aside from the current one.
          Further those on the right vote over judicial appointments, those on the left do not.

        6. I have varying oppinions on the justices on Trump’s list.
          My list would be different.

          But I would not describe any of them as “radical conservatives”.

          A radical would reverse Wickard V. Filburn.

          As wise as that might be, it is just not going to happen.
          You could not get a majority of the current “conservative” justices.
          Despite the fact that Wickard is blatantly unconstitutional.

          1. Do you REALLY think a person has the right to plan corn in their own backyard without government regulation! Man you are a radical!

    2. assaut and battery with hate crime enhancement for attempting to penalize the wearer from exercising free speech. maybe the first federal hate crime for assault and battery? sounds crazy but these are crazy times

        1. When did San Antonio migrate to California, Shill?

  9. “It seems to me that the sentence should be more severe when someone is attacking a victim for their exercise of free speech.”

    Good, decent, always well meaning Professor Turley, “hate” only goes one way and that is from right to left. The left cannot “hate”, everyone knows they are only fighting injustice and thus held to a different standard.

  10. Civiilty?????? Have you read some of the comments you post from angry people or maybe just the bots? They are vicious and mean and not civil at all. What about practice what you preach?


    Donald Trump’s entire campaign pandered to racial sentiment. Muslims and Mexicans were portrayed as a plague that America had to eliminate. And now, 18 months into his presidency, Trump continues pandering to racial sentiments.

    Therefore “Make America Great Again” is widely interpreted as, “Make America White Again”. That is how it translates to about half the country. In that context, a MAGA hat is considered a dare, “Knock This Off My Head”.

    1. @peter

      Bet you live in an upper middle class, almost all “white” neighborhood and send your kids to a private school.


      1. You’re absolutely wrong, Antonio. I live in the geographic center of Los Angeles in a very diverse neighborhood. My only ‘privilege’ is the nearby canyon park.

    2. Once again Peter Shill is trying to promote tribalism and engages in a good deal of race-baiting. His perception is totally untrue for the vast majority of people that support Trump. The race-baiters are people like Peter Shill and very frequently are the ones that carry a leftist ideology.

      Take note how many cars carried bumper stickers promoting Obama and how relatively few carry them promoting Trump. The reason for that is clear. Those on the left are violent and will damage the property and perhaps injure the lives of those that think differently.

      1. no, it’s just that the right is slower to anger. but if they keep it up just wait, just wait.

        1. Kurtz, I think many on the left are unable to express their thoughts verbally or get rid of the anger through hard work. That is why they can be violent and riot. Most on the right are able to think things through and as we know a higher percentage of the right works or has worked.

        2. Fire away. I regret to inform you, however, that your keyboard is unlikely to affect anyone but your own ineffectually-pathetic wrist.

          this is to “but I had a selfie made with a real army man” kurtzie

      2. Once again Allan is blogging from some time warp. It’s 50 years ago and I’m protesting Vietnam. Or so Allan thinks.

        1. This has nothing to do with Vietnam. You practice tribalism and are a race-baiter Peter Shill. That is what this has to do with.

    3. OK well get ready for a lot more dares because the MAGA hats are going to sell like hotcakes now

      1. Sell like hot cakes ‘where’?? Alabama? Mississippi? Wyoming?

        1. Roughly, everywhere between New York City and California. That’s where the food is grown. Good luck in the incipient civil war. The cities will run out of water in 3 days and food in a week.

          1. Haha. You gullible rubes, dupes and klan-wanabees really think there some kind of “war” coming? Really? WTF are you rubes smoking out there in the sticks? Pro tip: most of the country thinks Pravda Faux News is nothing more than a punchline to a joke.

            this is to “I’ve secreted silver ingots in my rectum, just in case” kurtzie

            1. It is self evident to most of us that the left is once again leaning towards violence.
              Many on the left promise it will get worse – it is reasonable to take them at their word.

              I do not expect armed insurection – brother against brother as in the civil war.

              I do expect increasing violence from the left until that violence is countered by force.

              I hope I am wrong and the left can return to civility.
              Unfortunately I do not expect that.

        2. MAGA hats are selling like hot cakes at Stormy Daniels events and have been for some time.

    4. This meme is stupid and boring.

      Being more suspicious of members of groups that are statistically more likely to be a threat is not “racism”.

      Is it “racism” to be suspicious of nazi’s ?

      The overwhelming majority of muslims are decent people.
      But at this moment in time the overwhelming majority of terrorism in the US and globally is committed by muslims.
      A needle in a haystack – absolutely. But still there is nothing wrong with starting with the muslim haystack, as that is the mostly likely place to find the needle today.

      We are all watching as things in Europe go to hell. We are seeing quite visibly the results of failure of countries to protect their citizens, and the politically correct garbage that precludes enforcing the law when the target of the enforcement is a minority.

      I would be happy to see the US return to the “open borders” of the 19th century. But that arrangement is not compatible with the modern welfare state.
      The left has their heads completely in the sand on this.

      Trump’s handling of immigration is WRONG. That said it is actually LESS wrong than the left’s sticking its head in the sand.
      Either shed the welfare state for open borders, knowing that you are going to drive wages way down for “the most vulnerable”,
      or come up with an arrangment that works.
      There was a deal to be made on immigration for more than a decade. All that is required is the left to negotiate in good faith.
      You wont. Therefor the failure is yours.

      I would further note that the rest of us – everyone not part of the left 25% of the country is increasingly tired of being called “racist, homophobic. mysoginist, hateful, hating haters”

      Get a clue, it is not a winning strategy to insult nearly all the electorate.

      Trump is not perfect on lots of issues – including race. but he is far from the carciture you paint him to be.
      And the more you lobb PC grenades at him, the more people see those grenades as aimed at them.

      The modern left is incredibly intolerant. It is the left that is positively dripping with hate.
      The rest of us would just like to send our daughter to highschool without having to wonder if you is going to have to shower with some kid with a sexual identity crisis.

    5. ““Make America Great Again” is widely interpreted as, “Make America White Again”.”

      Only by left wing nuts.

  12. Kino Jimenez posted his famed video online. Now ATF, ICE & FBI want to know some more facts. Search warrants are pending. Something about Kino’s comment “come test my gangsta”. OK, it will be tested!

  13. First make him go into a store and buy a MAGA hat to replace the stolen one. Jail time definitely an assault on a minor is nothing to take lightly just because no one was injured this time.

    1. They were in Texas. Jiminez may want to keep that in mind if he wants to bully anyone else.

  14. There is no remorse in the man’s own video and he demonstrates that he might be a threat to the community. He certainly was to this minor. Arrest and investigation are what is called for. The final determination should be based on his history and whether he is judged a threat to the community.

    This involved the use of violence and if it continues to be permitted more violence will follow.

  15. Click-bait for JT’s base, for every story about some Trump supporter being shamed in public, there are 10 stories about white people calling the cops on anybody, like kids mowing grass or doctors trying to get into their gated home. Police across the nation have reported a uptick of calls from people making reports on fellow citizens because of nothing more than pure racism and harassment.

    1. You can pretty much count on the fact that if a white cop does almost anything to a black person – it will make the news.

      You have your media bias backwards.

      You also have your facts wrong. Nearly all police reports about minority crimes, are made by minorities – not whites.

      We really need a time machine to send idiots like you back to periods when there was real racism.

      The 60’s were a period of great improvement – we were no longer lynching blacks en masse.
      Regardless, go back 20 , 40, 100 years and tell me that racism is a serious problem today!

      What are you some toddler who has no knowledge of the past.

      Please provide a citation that “racist” police reports are up.

      The data I am aware of is that nearly all crime is slowly declining EXCEPT crime in poor minority urban areas with minority democratic government and policing.

      1. The 60’s were a period of great improvement – we were no longer lynching blacks en masse. Regardless, go back 20 , 40, 100 years and tell me that racism is a serious problem today!

        Lynching was at it’s most frequent, with a couple hundred cases a year, around about 1892 and 1893. By 1920, there were about 50 lynchings a year in the South. Take a Southern city, delineate its tributary countryside, and you might expect to see 2 or 3 lynchings in that area in a typical year. The frequency of lynchings declined by 2/3 between 1920 and 1935, and the sort of frontier lynchings you once saw in the western states completely disappeared. There was a bloc lynching of six people in Georgia in 1946 about which there was a hue and cry in newspapers all over the country. In the succeeding 13 years, there were only a scatter of cases, the last occurring in Mississippi in 1959. You’d have to scrounge to find historical examples of people being lynched ‘en masse’ and spot lynchings had ceased to be a common occurrence a generation before ‘the sixties’.

        1. Thank you.

          you make the same point as I on a longer historical scale.
          Racism is far less of a problem today than 50 years ago, and better then than 50 years before and ….

          I was deliberately trying to confine my argument to a time frame that many of us have personal experience with.
          That we saw with our own eyes.

    2. there are 10 stories about white people calling the cops on anybody, like

      The liberal mentality is such that being cautious about strangers and calling the police is BadThought, that mistaken identity is INTOLERABLE, and that answering a police officer’s questions is an AFFRONT. Especially if it’s someone from a liberal’s portfolio of mascot groups.

      1. Do us all a favor, wear your little red hats on your little pea brain heads and show us all who the village idiots are.

        1. The village idiots are the people who cast ballots for a man who was an associate in a law firm for all of three years, spent 12 years collecting a salary from the University of Chicago without publishing a single scholarly paper (or teaching any crucial courses, or attending faculty meetings), and sat in legislative bodies for 12 years without ever establishing himself as a maven in any area of policy. But the creases in this pants were sweet.

        2. FishWings, comments like the one you just made would be considered immature in a teenager but at your age, one has to consider dementia. Intellectually DSS can run rings around you.

          1. Running rings don’t make them right, they discount any discomfiting evidence, spin and deflect any thing someone says, they are nothing more than irredeemable, beyond reason, and rejoice in their own ignorance of alternative facts. I do not have to address the opinion that they want.

            1. FishWings, running rings is not the point. You likely have the intelligence to sort out much of the truth from fiction without preconceived biases. Admittedly, a lot that is discussed lies on the line between truth and fiction. Trump is neither the greatest man on earth nor the devil. He is human and has a lot of faults. He is also able to get things done. The same thing can be said for all prior administrations.

              If one is a socialist one will not agree with Trump but has to think about things like Venezuela.
              If one is a capitalist one might agree with what Trump has done but has to think of the excesses of capitalism.

              Between the two are areas of agreement, but at that point enters the question of individual human freedom along with the question of security.

              You can choose whatever ideology you desire and stand up for it, but then you have to justify the unintended consequences and deal with historical fact.

              I choose individual liberty. The risks of slavery are too great when one is promoting socialism. However, nothing is pure so we live in a hybrid society where our individual liberty is always threatened by those in power.

              1. Allan, that was beautifully written. It will fall on deaf ears of our TDS sufferers, but it is still eloquent.
                Thanks for classing up the place!

                1. Thanks, Foxtrot. Maybe some will attempt to discuss the problems we face at least part-time.

                1. Thank you, Olly. I wish those that believe differently than I would occasionally engage in discussion.

            2. We applaud your uncivil comments, and we welcome the attacks on Trump supporters. Because, We are Trump supporter too, and I heartily wish for a sharpening of the conflict. Where ballot boxes fail…..

              1. Keyboard warrior hooey. Such a strong, powerful, he-man… Sorry, anonymous, internet loudmouths are still considered to be nothing but ludicrous, cowardly buffoons.

                this is to “but I’ve got a book on close combat, too” kurtzie

            3. “Running rings don’t make them right, they discount any discomfiting evidence”

              You do not present evidence. You make unsupported assertions.
              Worse ones that can be trivially disproven if you an google,
              or even more trivially if you are not blind to say 40+ years of history.

              “spin and deflect any thing someone says”
              Spinning and deflection were practically invented by the left – read Alinskies rules.
              Not only are they primarily leftist traits, they are actually considered to be positive qualities by the left.

              “they are nothing more than irredeemable”
              Because ? Again an assertion without evidence. A moral judgement without offering any basis.

              “beyond reason”
              There are plenty of us here who are quite good at “reasoning”.
              If you demonstrate that someone else – left or right, is “beyond reason” you will get our support.
              But that is a claim that requires evidence, and you offer none.

              “and rejoice in their own ignorance of alternative facts.”
              I do not think that means what you thing.
              regardless, thus far the evidence of ignorance points at you.
              The assertion of “alternate facts” points at you.

              “I do not have to address the opinion that they want.”

              No you do not. You are free – given that you do not infringe on the equal freedom of others.
              Which you do not do.

              But to be respected, to have what you asserted treated credibly, you have to make arguments using facts, logic and reason.
              You have to earn the respect of others. You are not entitled to it.

        3. Do us all a favor, wear your little red hats on your little pea brain heads and show us all who the village idiots are.

          That is a perfect example of how liberals act on their emotions rather than critical-thinking. You have no clue that you’ve just provided an excellent summary of the events that took place here. Favor granted. 🙂

          1. One, I was not writing to you. my point was to the all knowing all seeing tyrannical totalitarian types that troll and distort anything they can to justify their own opinions over others. The insult was to them and them only.

            1. Oh, I wasn’t responding to what you considered an insult. It really was a very good post describing the events in the video. You may have not meant it, but you got the favor you requested. Thank you.

            2. Thank you but I prefer to be known as an “authoritarian” personality. The totalitarian personalities usually emanate from the left.

            3. “One, I was not writing to you.”
              Therefore no one else can respond ?

              “my point was to the all knowing all seeing tyrannical totalitarian types that troll and distort anything they can to justify their own opinions over others.”
              Grow up. Your insults are targets at everyone who disagrees with you.
              Not unicorns.
              Atleast have the decency to identify your targets.
              No one is interesting in your battle with snipes.

          2. A knit. Liberal means one who prizes individual liberty.
            The left co-opted the term “liberal” – which used to apply to those such as Mill, Thoreux, Smith, Locke, Hume, Franklin, … who “prized individual liberty”, after they so besmirched the term progressive that it was equated with fascist – because early progressives were fascists.
            More recently they have slimed the term “liberal” and are returning to “progressive” having had almost a century for the smell to clear.

            We are seeing more and more people self-identifying as “classical liberals” – Dave Rubin, Jordan Peterson, Johnathan Haidt among others.

            This is to be encouraged.
            It the left is casting off the term “liberal”, we should take it from them.

            Call them what they are – progressives, statists, fascists, socialists.,
            Not what they are not – “liberals”

            1. It doesn’t matter what label they’ve co-opted or that I use for them. It’s their hideous ideology that matters. Focus on that, make people aware of that, and there won’t be a name they can hide behind. They’ll simply be known as an enemy of the state.

              Thankfully, some words have not lost their meaning, words so seldom used in public discourse that we still recognize them and grasp their import: sacrifice, humility, mercy. It may be only a matter of time before our sloppy, ill-informed usage corrupts these words as well. But for now it would do us some good not only to speak these words more often but also to enact them.

              1. I do not disagree with your characterization of the left.

                My comments were not about the left.
                They were about those of us NOT on the left.

                The left never should have been allowed to co-opt the term liberal.
                “That does not mean what you think it means”.

                More recently they have mostly abandoned it as they have besmirched it.

                I am asking YOU and those attacking the left to refrain from using “liberal” as a label for the left.
                They are not “liberal” and given that they are walking away from the term we should not leave them with it.

                It will take time, but liberal can eventually come to accurately reflect its definition – someone who values individual liberty.

                Modern “liberalism” is most accurately reflected by modern libertarians, and to a lessor extent conservatives.

                1. I get it; you’re Libertarian self is offended that the Left has sullied the term Liberal. I’ll begin calling them the Lipstick Left; as in it doesn’t matter what they want to call themselves, it will always be putting lipstick on a pig.

                  1. “I get it; you’re Libertarian self is offended that the Left has sullied the term Liberal. ”
                    That happened almost a century ago. That is NOT what I care about.

                    What I care about is that the left themselves are walking away from “liberal”,.
                    I say let them. There are myriads of labels that are more accurate.
                    Fascist as anb example.

                    I have another point too.

                    A great deal of the issue with debating the left is the games they play with the meaning of words.

                    Most of us think in words. Muddying the meaning of words leads to muddied thought.

                    On the part of the left that is deliberate. The ideology of the left does not survive the clear and accurate use of words.
                    It is always possible to trip up a lefty merely by responding to what they have said using the ACTUAL meaning of the words they use.

                    Do not cede the argument to them by allowing them to self label with a term that is pretty much the opposite of what they are.

            2. Buckley capitalized the L in the word “liberal” to separate Liberals from classical liberals. Liberals keep changing their name because they can’t stand the stench of their own ideology.

              1. I am not looking to debate the history of “liberal”

                I am asking that those not on the left consider not calling left wing nuts liberal.
                They are abandoning the term in favor of progressive.

                There is no reason for the rest of us to use a term that has a defined meaning radically different from what left wing nuts actually mean.
                Calling those on the left liberals, is like calling the mafia police.

                1. Dhlii, No debate, but the term Liberal alone will be forever scarred in our lifetimes. That is why the capital L was added. Better to use the term classical liberal with an explanation.

                  1. Again, my primary point is don’t call those on the left “liberal”

                    They aren’t

                    The word actually means almost the opposite.

                    Most of us think using words, muddy or distored words cloud out thinking and distort our communications.

        4. maybe, or maybe we are like fish swimming in the same water as you, undetected. maybe you are right next to a closet trump sympathizer….

          1. Haha. As if. Your little 38% is getting smaller and smaller. Maybe your clown can get elected as a meter-maid in BFE nowheresville if he avoids indictment in 2021.
            this is to “all my old, timid, white friends agree with me” kurtzie

            1. There is all kinds of polling out there – and there are tremendous conflicts in the polling.
              Worse still Brexit and the 2016 election tell us that the pollsters can get things way wrong – as much as 10% wrong.

              Trump’s current favorable/unfavorable is better than on election day – and it is rising slowly.

              The left is hoping that 2018 will be for them what 2010 was for the Tea party.

              That comparison is relevant, but the facts do not indicate a similar shift favoring the left.

              In Nov. 2018 I could be proven wrong. But the odds do not favor that.

              Regardless, if you want that outcome – make your case, attempt to persuade people rather than insult them.

        5. “Do us all a favor, wear your little red hats on your little pea brain heads and show us all who the village idiots are.”

          So your response to being called on the carpet for saying something incredibly stupid is to say even more incredibly stupid things ?

          Do you have an argument ?
          Or are you limited to praying ad hominem ?

    3. Click-bait for JT’s base, for every story about some Trump supporter being shamed in public,

      It’s quite telling you consider assault as shaming someone. We’ve seen this behavior you support throughout history and when it becomes normalized, the victims lose more than their property, they usually end up dead.

      1. Yeah, like running a car thru peaceful protesters. I should have used the word shame, not sham. Nor did I or have I ever supported harm in protest.

        1. I should have used the word shame, not sham.

          Let’s go to the wayback machine: Click-bait for JT’s base, for every story about some Trump supporter being shamed in public,

          Yup, you didn’t use the word sham, however sham would be an appropriate word for your explanation. So by characterizing the assault as shaming, you are effectively supporting its practice. Own it, and if it was a mistake, then admit it.

        2. oh you mean the crazy kid whose free speech was terminated by an unruly mob and then his egress was blocked and had his car hammered by bystanders before he panicked and somebody got killed and he is now blamed and overcharged to the max.

          1. The kid was schitzophrenic.
            This was a very stupid environment for him.

            There is also evidence that the death was not directly related to him.
            The victim was uninjured in horrible health and died of a heart attack.

        3. “Yeah, like running a car thru peaceful protesters. I should have used the word shame, not sham. Nor did I or have I ever supported harm in protest.”

          Yes, a paranoid schitzophrenic commits a crime against some lefties, and you pretend this is a moral indictment of everyone to the right of Bernie sanders.

          If you advocate for govenrment action – you advocate for the use of force. You advocate for harm to others.
          There are instances that is justified, but they are rare.

    1. Who is everyone? I thought the idea of America was the ability to make yourself great and not rely on someone else or the govt.

    2. Has he made America Great Again?

      Are we there yet!? I’ve never liked hearing my kids whine from the backseat. It’s even worse coming from an adult.

      It’s Make not made; a call to action and not a state of being. And it’s not he but everyone.

    3. It’s an ideal, an objective. Only one man. And from the masses he emerged, more will come forth when he is done.

  16. It’s important to note that this was an assault on a minor (16 yrs. old). It’s one thing to assault an adult, but, there are laws about child annoyance (at least, in California) which should land this guy in jail, if they felt like actually enforcing the law.

    1. It would figure that CA would be legally nuts.

      Assault is assault.
      The status of the victim should NEVER be a determining factor in whether an act is a crime.

      Would we excuse assaults on the rich – because they are rich ?
      Or in a different time on the poor because they are poor ?

      To the extent that status matters at all, it is as a sentencing factor.
      And even their it should be a small factor.

      1. well hate crime enhancements do exactly that, they weigh the relative value of the victims. that’s a democrat initiative btw so much for not penalizing thoughts but only crime. that went out the window a long time ago.

        1. That the left continues to sell garbage is not a reason the rest of us must buy it.

      2. Well, yes, the status of the victim, if he or she is a child, should indeed, and legally does, matter. A child cannot defend himself as an adult can, so, an assault on a child is worse than an assault on an adult. Or, in the words of the California Penal Code, “647.6.
        (a) (1) Every person who annoys or molests any child under 18 years of age shall be punished by a fine not exceeding five thousand dollars ($5,000), by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year, or by both the fine and imprisonment.”

        1. For centuries our laws have atleast pretended the status of the victim does not matter

          Absolutely we have not followed that – kill a wealthy person and you have always been far more likely to be caught and severly punished

          But we have still as a matter of principle claimed that the status of the victim is irrelevant.

          And it is. Assault is assault. Whether the victim can defend themselves or not

          No I do not take any interest in your citing bad law that violates centuries of sound legal principles.

          I am sure you can find more such laws.

          They are wrong as a matter of principle.

          If you must refer to the constitution – they violate equal protection.

          No one is entitled to better protection from the law than another.

          The equal protection of the law is the only way in which we are actually equal.
          And you want to trash that ?

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