In a striking contradiction of President Donald Trump, National security adviser John Bolton confirmed a Washington Post story that the Trump Administration signed a document guaranteeing to pay North Korea $2 million for the hospital bill of Otto Warmbier. Just a couple days before, Trump declared the story to be “fake news.” While no money has yet to be paid, we agreed to pay a ridiculous amount to North Korea for abusing a U.S. citizen and leaving him near death. It is hard not to see the promise as a payment for an effective hostage.
The Post correctly reported that it was unclear whether money was paid, but the story was the surprising (and disturbing) news that the United States would pledge to pay North Korea $2 million for its mistreatment of a U.S. citizen.
Trump responded by declaring the story to fake and said “We did not pay money for our great Otto. There was no money paid. We don’t pay money for hostages. The Otto case was a very unusual case but I just want to let you know, no money was paid for Otto.”
The story was not fake. The Post reported that a pledge was made and it was unclear if the money was paid. Bolton then confirmed to Chris Wallace on Fox Sunday that U.S. official Joseph Yun did he sign a document pledging the money in order to get him out. Bolton then insisted that no money was paid and “that’s the key point.”
I am not sure many citizens would agree. The U.S. still promised to pay money to get our citizen back. The fact that we apparently broke our promise does not improve the matter in my view. The U.S. should not make agreements with other countries unless it is prepared to meet those obligations. In this case, it is an obligation that should never have been made in the first place. It is true that “we don’t pay money for hostages” but that is precisely what we agreed to do. Moreover, Trump himself acknowledged that such a payment would be paying for a hostage.
So we have confirmation that: (1) we agreed to pay North Korea $2 million for a citizen; (2) we broke our signed agreement; and (3) President Trump falsely denied an accurate story.
94 thoughts on “Bolton Confirms Post Story That Was Declared “Fake News” By Trump”
FAKE NEWS as usual. You just don’t get it do you. When you isolate pieces of info without providing ALL of it’s context you really expose your lack of qualifications to be pushing your words out as some kind of valuable contribution to our society. It’s NOT. The dark, ill-intentioned motives of msm has been seen, heard and felt by the VERY dismissed American citizens in your pejoratively hissed “flyover” area where contrary to the megamouthed lying media personalities people like you LOVE their Country and are fighting to save it against vile excuses for “news outlets” who have become gossip rags to pump out lies and propaganda into our world. SHAME ON YOU. Many of my like-minded citizens will pray for you buy me, I’m praying that you all get the comeuppance you deserve so thoroughly. Your cherry picked brand of “journalism” is dying under the exposure of your treachery. Media trust is at an all time low and will go lower before you either change your allegiance back to the USA again or you go over the edge of the cliff with the globalist/socialist/marxist regime that has been exposed and which The People are pushing to that cliff edge. It’s been called The Great Awakening. I follow that up with The Great Unraveling. We The People are much smarter than you think. NO MONEY PAID. 22 US CITIZENS FREED FROM FOREIGN PRISIONS AROUND THE WORLD AND NO MONEY PAID. AND HERE’S ANOTHER 2
#NoCollusionNoObstruction #NoCollusion #NoObstruction #TurleyLiesAgain
Too bad we had to wait on a non politician to get the job done especially when the previous individual was from the same political philosophy
What Trump tweeted was actually 100% accurate. No money has been paid to North Korea. A document was signed agreeing to pay medical expenses– a demand that was made at the very last minute and after our delegation had seen Otto. IMO, it would have been evil to have refused a paltry 2 million signatory for medical bills to get him out of there where we could get him to the USA and see if there was any way of saving him. It was also shortly after Trump took office, and he has been working on building better relations with NK. Who knows… maybe the bill will be ripped up one day soon.
The Media prints something about Trump. Trump says it isn’t true. New facts come out to prove the original media report was correct. Trump still denies it. Trump staff confirms it. Trump loyalists say it was a perfectly normal thing to do in the first place. Sound about right?
“Trumps comments after Charlottesville were ‘perfect.'” Kellyanne Conway
Trump’s pigeons are perfectly Pavlovian.
I don’t care what Trump said he would do for North Korea to get Otto, as long as we don’t actually pay $2 million to the country that fatally abused him.
Paraphrased from the Bureau of Frame Substitution:
“I don’t care what Hillary said she would do for North Korea to get Otto, as long as we don’t actually pay $2 million to the country that fatally abused him.”
So we “broke our word” to hostage takers of an American in a coma. Shame on us. Really? So far as I know, Trump called it clean. We did not pay. Good enough.
Well, Lil’ Kim said “he didn’t know”, so the hostage taking was all just a big misunderstanding among friends.
it was one man’s personal tragedy in a delicate negotiation with a nuclear armed foe with a hugely massive army and 15,000 artillery tubes and rockets aimed at our ally the ROK’s capital city which has a major metro population of 26 million. Within a daylight hours tank drive (50 KM) from the border. Grow up!
Trump in his own words:
North Korea best not make any more threats to the United States. They will be met with fire and fury like the world has never seen … he has been very threatening beyond a normal state. They will be met with fire, fury and frankly power the likes of which this world has never seen before.
Trump in his own words from “The Art of the Deal”:
The final key to the way I promote is bravado. I play to people’s fantasies. People may not always think big themselves, but they can still get very excited by those who do. That’s why a little hyperbole never hurts. People want to believe that something is the biggest and the greatest and the most spectacular. I call it truthful hyperbole. It’s an innocent form of exaggeration, and a very effective form of promotion.
I have the book but it seems you are more enamored of it than I, scouring for such passages. Yes he is a promoter. Yes he swings for the bleachers. And yes that’s what got him where he is now. He is the Alpha Dog of the Alpha state.
you democrat naysayers are great at details unless those details don’t support your petty complaints. isnt that right?
Trump-Kim Jong Un summit: North Korea contradicts Trump on why …
Feb 28, 2019 … Ri’s statement appeared to rebut Trump’s claim that North Korea “wanted … adds another twist to the abrupt ending of
the Trump-Kim summit.
“If NK was asking for the lifting of 5 UN sanctions in return for dismantlement of Yongbyon, Trump was right to reject,” Jenny Town, a North Korea expert at Stimson Center, wrote on Twitter. “But they should have known that before they got there.”
And that issue — that the US should have known what North Korea wanted before the summit — is probably the more important takeaway.
As Vox’s Alex Ward points out, Trump’s decision to rely almost solely on his personal engagement with Kim meant that much of the hard, behind-the-scenes work required to make a massive deal like this went largely neglected. Ward writes:
It didn’t have to be this way. The president could have gone the tried-and-true diplomatic route of letting working-level staff, like America’s special envoy for North Korea negotiations Stephen Biegun, figure out the finer details of a deal. After months or even years of painstaking work, those staffers could produce a near-ready agreement for Trump and Kim to finalize together.
So while it seems that Trump may have turned down a bad deal, it’s an outcome that might have been avoided.
Trump in his own words from “The Art of the Deal”:
I try not to schedule too many meetings. I leave my door open. You can’t be imaginative or entrepreneurial if you’ve got too much structure. I prefer to come to work each day and just see what develops.
I never get too attached to one deal or one approach. For starters, I keep a lot of balls in the air, because most deals fall out, no matter how promising they seem at first.
I’m not sure what “Democrat naysayers” or “petty” have to do with any complaints, as anyone who prefers a non-criminogenic President to represent my beloved country has a legitimate, well-founded sense of disgust at the daily antics of the day glo bozo, and the shame those of your ilk–the gullible rubes, dupes, klan wannabees, pocket-traitors and grifters on the make– have inflicted on the great name that America once had. That ticking sound says it’s almost over though. So sorry for your loss, and your condition.
this is to “I used to prefer persons who weren’t criminals, too” kurtzie
the Mark M returns with his tired litany of insults.
The tick tocking now is no longer the Meuller nonsense which has expired. Now it is only the tick tocking until Trump’s second turn. It will beat like the telltale heart until you lose it entirely. I’m afraid. Best wishes for your well being!
The Post correctly reported that it was unclear whether money was paid, but the story was the surprising (and disturbing) news that the United States would pledge to pay North Korea $2 million for its mistreatment of a U.S. citizen.
Did the signed agreement say we would pay a $2 million hospital bill for an American citizen that would not survive being tortured by the North Koreans?
Where does Turley stand on the principle of Caveat emptor?
Here is another easy tip for Americans.
DONT VISIT THE DPRK AS A TOURIST
Otto made a very bad choice to go there. It does not justify their abuse. But it was something like playing in the lion’s den. Don’t do it.
As for promising to pay for Otto, fairly called a hostage, Turley’s point, it was a small and understandable concession. Hostages have been bargaining points between gangs tribes and nation states since time immemorial. Strategic negotiations are more about strategic interests than secondary concerns like whatever bag of dirty tricks is at hand. We have to take crap from a big bully with nukes that we would not take from a gang of hooligans. Ok, so what? Get over it.
And we reneged, which was equally legit, and thus both sides “saved face.”
A concept Americans which carries a lot of weight in Asian cultures.
Inform yourselves! More than the stupid media does, at least, please!
Egad! Kurtz was right about something. How could this happen?
The first “diplomats” (at least in The West) may have been the hostages that ancient Greek City-States exchanged as surety against war. The host City-State was at pains to lavish luxurious accommodations upon the hostages from the rival City-State so that, when the hostages returned home, they would sing the praises of their former host to fellow citizens.
Of course, that has nothing whatsoever to do with happened to Otto Warmbier. But it’s true, anyhow.
“It is hard not to see the promise as a payment for an effective hostage.”
– Professor Turley
There are pay-offs and then there are UN-pay-offs. What do people do when they really, really want their friends or relatives released? They pay off without letting anyone know they pay off. Can you say “diplomacy” and “all parties get what they want?” Oh, and aestheticians are wealthy and they have friends in wealthy places.
“…it was unknown whether any money was paid…”
Kidnapped Costa Mesa tourist Kimberly Sue Endicott rescued in Uganda, officials say
By Hannah Fry and Laura Newberry
Apr 08, 2019 | 9:35 AM
Kidnapped Costa Mesa tourist Kimberly Sue Endicott rescued in Uganda, officials say
A Costa Mesa woman and her driver, who were kidnapped last week at gunpoint by a group of men in a Uganda national park, have been rescued from their captors, authorities said Sunday.
Kimberly Sue Endicott, 56, an aesthetician, and her driver, Congolese national Jean-Paul Mirenge Remezo, were rescued by security forces, the Ugandan government tweeted. No other details about their rescue were available.
“The duo are in good health & in the safe hands of the joint security team,” the Uganda police said on social media.
Their kidnappers used Endicott’s cellphone to demand a $500,000 ransom, but it was unknown whether any money was paid or if the abductors had been arrested.
– Los Angeles Times
Hillary Clinton, as Secretary of State, conducted an illegal pay-for-play scam that increased the value of the Clinton Foundation to $2 billion and Professor Turley is compelled to criticize President Trump for NOT spending $2 million. Hilary Clinton conducted patently criminal activities as delineated by former FBI Director James Comey but Professor Turley is consumed with what is either a fiscal “typo” or President Trump’s negotiating style. In either case, it doesn’t amount to peanuts. Can you say “fake blog?”
“Other accusations are far more troubling. Human rights-abusing governments, including Algeria, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and Oman, have donated millions to the Clinton Foundation. Saudi Arabia alone has contributed $10 million to $25 million.
Ukrainian steel magnate Victor Pinchuk also gave the foundation $10 to $25 million. And he was by many accounts not shy about asking for help from Hillary Clinton when she served as secretary of state. While there’s been no indication of what the new FBI investigation is looking into, over the years these probes have usually focused on influence peddling allegedly enabled by the Clinton Foundation’s fundraising.”
– Pacific Standard
Trump was correct. No money was exchanged and a promise to pay a rogue nation was not kept.
A near-death Otto Warmbier was returned to his family to die in peace. Otto was kidnapped on Obama’s watch and his policy of “strategic patience” with North Korea was a complete failure.
Obama’s other failed foreign policy initiatives include: release of five Taliban commanders in exchange for deserter Bowe Bergdahl (called a “hero” by Susan Rice and Obama and announcement in the WH Rose Garden); the death of Ambassador Chris Stevens in Libya and lies about the video that started it); lack of response to the red line crossed by Assad and unleashing the death and/or migration of over 4 million Syrians and the destruction of Aleppo and untold historic treasures; no support for the Iranian people’s Green Revolution and the cash payment of $1.5 billion to the backers of Hamas and Hezbollah and the deaths of over 1,500 service men and women.
So do I wish that President Trump would restrain his tweets and think twice before speaking. Yes I do.
However, the ongoing virtue signaling and moral posturing of the main stream media (fake news) is tiresome and irritating.
See also Michael Goodwin’s column in today’s New York Post.
This from Michael Avenatti’s professor. Obviously, Avenatti didn’t take an ethics class.
I was against Obama but you have actually highlighted a couple choices he made that were good policies.
Strategic patience was not a failure. It was BIll Clinton that could have addressed the DPRK proliferation of nukes with war. When he blinked, it was past time for the subsequent presidents to do anything belligerent about it. Obama could do little and so he did. Perhaps Bill Clinton made a good choice too. A war would have probably wiped out Seoul with artillery alone even if the NATO side had “won” in the end. Which is a questionable proposition.
The red line on Assad was stupid to say but wise to ignore.. The “chemical attacks” variously attributed to Assad are questionable and various ones may have been false flag provocations. I can’t recall the specifics but read this
Otto Warmbier incident was a bad thing but it was a legit strategic choice by Trump to downplay it. The fates of millions weighed against one victim? That’s the kind of trade off Presidents have to make.
Never pay? American Bowe Bergdahl comes to mind. He was released to American forces in exchange for five Taliban detainees held at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba by Obama. This was worse than money because some returned to the fight.
Jeeeesh, these clown can’t even get the story straight.
If I understand your argument, you take issue with the fact we lied to save an American from a tyrant. Trump was wrong calling it fake news. It was really publishing classified information to impugn the US administration. Hardly an act of patriotism. No money was paid. Money was promised. As any jilted creditor knows, there’s a big difference. As for lying to a liar, I think we get absolution from that venial and technical sin every time. It’s standard operating procedure in police interrogations which nobody takes issue with including judges. As for characterizing, the amount as “ridiculous” swing by an American emergency room one day with a complaint of chest pain. Then gross up that bill.
Otto Warmbier – Wikipedia
President Trump issued a statement regarding Warmbier’s death: … Our thoughts and prayers are with Otto’s family and friends, and all …
Excerpted from the article linked above:
In 2018, a U.S. federal court found the North Korean government liable for Warmbier’s torture and death, in a default judgment in favor of Warmbier’s parents after North Korea did not contest the case. In 2019, U.S. President Donald Trump caused controversy after saying that he believed the word of North Korean leader Kim Jong-un that Kim was not responsible for Warmbier’s death. In response, Warmbier’s parents criticised Trump for making excuses for Kim and “his evil regime”.
a necessary diplomatic choice made by Trump which was in the best interests of millions or tens of millions or more, against the sad fate of Otto. A tough call but an easy one. Now the Democrats want to flog a diplomatic choice that was easily defensible. Sad
No, Mr. Kurtz, what’s sad is that this is just another lie by a chronic, habitual liar who does everything possible to seek personal aggrandizement and to appear to be succeeding. There was no “diplomatic choice” made here. Trump did it so he could have something to brag about, some way to claim success in his failed leadership. Otto Warmbier was brain dead after being tortured by the North Koreans, but Trump sided with Kim Jong Un when he denied responsibility. Now that the N. Koreans also know that Trump is a big, fat liar who will do anything to seem to be succeeding watch them manipulate him even more.
What is also sad is the lengths to which Trumpsters will go to defend this loser. He is a disgrace to this country. And, no. those who oppose Trump are not “the left”, “Dems”, Libs” or any other convenient label Faux News likes to use, nor is there any “coup”. Trump has earned the scorn of the majority of Americans by his chronic lying, narcissism, racism, misogyny, and failed leadership. Trump inherited a robust economy that is slowing down. He is not responsible for the economy. Wanting someone gone who is hurting this country is not a “coup”.
the economy is years into expansion. at this point he deserves some modest credit. though most POTUS pronouncements about the business cycle are self serving no matter the party
You are unhinged about Trump. My comments about Otto are clear and balanced. The issue was a small one compared to the negotiation at hand. It’s one person’s tragedy versus potential horrific war involving potentially tens of millions of civilian casualties to our allies ROK and Japan. Wake up madam and smell the coffee.
You must never have been to South Korean nor had many South Korean friends. Seoul is within range from what is probably the largest array of existing and ready well aimed and deadly artillery anywhere on Earth. I read the number is 12,000 artillery and 2300 multiple launch rockets. Let me know if you are aware of any other artillery preparations existing on this scale elsewhere in the world at this time. tick tock tick tock
They have suffered under a fear of this for decades and you want to talk about one poor fellow who in all sincerity was a fool for going to the DPRK in the first place.
It was wrong for the DPRK to imprison and hurt him but they are a dangerous foe and you need to wake up to the scale of problem for our friends.
If there were any results from Trump’s giving Lil Kim coming out parties,. back rubs, and whispering sweet nothings in his ear, you’d have a point Kurtz. We just gave up our joint military exercises with S Korea and so far have nothing.
Obama gave the Iranians their own money back – we’ve held much of it since 1981 – and got a treaty with IAEA inspectors in Iran every day all day and the GOP and Trump have been claiming it was a bad deal ever since. Compared to what? Trump buying a pig in a poke from the little fat one?
I’m not a big critic of the Iran deal. I know my friend Allan is. As are many Republicans and Israelis. They have their own legit opinions. I was ok with it.
As for the DPRK negotiations, they are what they are, which is, positive diplomatic engagements. Not much more, yet. It’s understandable given a lot of other priorities.
Giving up the joint military exercises was probably wise and long overdue. Sometimes a unilateral gesture is exactly what is needed to break an impasse. If the ROK is not whining about it, why are we?
With respect, I have had, over the decades, some long candid talks with very well informed ROK citizens about this general set of issues. I respect their viewpoints offered to me off the record. What I believe is there is a strong desire to move towards peace and accomodation among the South Koreans, who for all their fear of the aggressive and horrible DPRK regime, have more confindence than we do, that they can handle it.
And the ROK has been very patient at having our country stage an ongoing cold war confrontation there long after the cold war is over. The day will come when it is up to KOREANS to sort out their own mutual destiny. And it will not be up to the United States POTUS or any of us here to dictate the terms of peace.
The lingering backwards context of all of this, however, remains a rivalry with China, which is probably the only voice Kim respects. Trump has both engaged China on other terrain, such as in trade where it counts the most, such as in contesting their belligerence towards Taiwan, even in the past week with boats going through the straights, and by engaging Kim. Overall, Trump is doing what our country needs badly and that is resisting China on many fronts.
Obama had the right idea with his “pivot” to Asia, but he failed to execute. He did not have a lot of energy and was weak compared to the Democrat establishment (ie, the Clinton cronies) and MIC neither of which I believe was very fond of him.
OK on your conversations with your SK friends, though I still note the Trump has gotten nothing yet and it’s been 2 years of ass kissing.
As to Obama, you forget the TPP which is going along very smoothly without us and to the benefit of Japan and other members, and was intended and is working as a challenge to China’s economic domination of the Pacific market. The GOP was expected to support the TPP in the senate, since they are traditionally free trade advocates, while Bernie and lib democrats opposed it. Even Hillary pandered in opposing it (“without changes”) in the primary. Trump, who’s main motivation is trolling Obama, killed it and as we all know the GOP, which has no principles left beyond their cult of personality.
TPP was a bad deal. It’s true the left opposed it. Trump’s opposition was wise and timely. Republican free traders are naive and equally the sycophants of their multinational donors.
TRUMP has risen up like a lion to speak for Americans against these bad deals. His greatest legacy may be this, at least if he is allowed to complete it.
The negotiations are a value in themselves. This is a norm shared by diplomats and lawyers. Mediations for example often come to naught but help all sides correct their overvalued expectations.
equally the sycophants as Democrats are, in general, I meant to say
TRUMP has whipped these scurrilous GOP dogs into shape.
“I’m not a big critic of the Iran deal. I know my friend Allan is. ”
Iran, the largest state sponsor of terrorism.
“I’m right–you’re wrong, and my position is clear and balanced, but yours is unhinged”. Also: I’m completely neutral in evaluating the substance of my rhetoric to yours. Anyone who disagrees with or criticizes Trump has a disorder called “Trump Derangement Syndrome”, because, after all, no criticism of Trump is valid– the “Dems”, the “Left” and “libs” criticize Trump because they are sore “losers”. You are a Faux News disciple, all right.
It is not “unhinged’ to note that Trump constantly lies and that he seeks attention and adulation like an addict seeks drugs. These are not admirable qualities, nor do they portend well for the future of America. Trump lied about the monetary offer because it undermines his claim about being a successful negotiator, just like he won’t admit that Russians helped his campaign because it undermines the validity of his “victory”. These are the products of a malignant narcissist. He is clearly vulnerable to being played by Russia and Korea. All they have to do is flatter him, and they know it.
And, no. The N. Koreans were not ready to start a nuclear war. They continued with their nuclear program unabated after your fat hero declared victory in getting them to agree to de-nuclearize. More lies. More blindness to the reality TV performer who invaded the White House and whose lack of personal character has tainted the Presidency.
Natch, I have many times provided you with a left wing-ish source that you can use to adjust your rah rah war party democrat warmonger perspective, if you care to be educated. but somehow i suspect not. consortium news.
oh wait i forgot, you are the jealous advocate of that running dog of the MIC hillary. of course.
Even when I correct the record as I did above with some of the over the top Republican talking points against Obama, who is blamed even for his good choices, let alone his many bad ones, but cheerleaders like you miss that context because it’s obscured by your Hillarite pom pom fronds. Sad!
So, are you saying: 1. Trump does not lie; but if he does 2. It is for valid, well thought out strategic reasons; 3. He doesn’t hold rallies primarily for self-aggrandizement and attention, nor try to stir up Evangelicals by claiming that women and their doctors kill healthy newborns just because the mother doesn’t want the baby; 4. He didn’t praise White Supremacists, and then try to claim that the rally in Charlottesville was about Robert E. Lee; 5. He didn’t brag about grabbing womens’ genitalia; 6. The N. Koreans really did de-nuclearize because Trumpy Bear, whom they just love, asked them to, so all of the photographic evidence to the contrary is “fake news’; 7. Russians really didn’t interfere with our elections to try to help Trump, because Putin says so; therefore, any contrary opinions are motivated by angry Democrats; 8. Trump didn’t consort with a porn star or Playboy models, pay them off and then lie about it; 9. He never promised that Mexico would build the wall; 10. The Mueller Report fully exonerated him and could do so because Trump, his campaign and family fully cooperated, they sat for depositions, produced all requested documents, including financial records, so the facts were fully investigated; therefore, there is nothing for Congress to look into, and they are solely motivated by personal animus seeking a coup de etat; 11. He never caged migrant children or deported their parents without reunifying them with their parents?
You speak of “Republican talking points”. There is a difference between Republicans and Trumpsters. A growing number of Republicans are joining with the majority of Americans who do not support Trump, because Trump is not patriotic, altruistic or conservative, and does not put America first. Trumpsters are in a class by themselves. These are people who have blind allegiance to Trump no matter how many lies he tells, no matter how many his failures of leadership, they defend him no matter what, and are gullible and believe that opposition to Trump is being organized by HRC supporters, as an attempted “coup”, because there is no validity for the reasons most Americans are opposed to Trump. Faux News is the main media outlet for these people, along with Rush Limbaugh.
What have I said that was false?
You put words in my mouth. Your first two propositions were manufactured by you.
My remarks were confined to Otto incident and the DPRK negotiations, and extended more towards global strategy in general across several presidencies.
You are a child and a fool if you think that diplomacy does not include a lot of face saving falsehoods that some tut tutting schoolmarm like you calls “lies”… this applies to every POTUS from whatever party not just Trump.
Natacha’s post describing the fraudulent charlatan by the numbers is the leader in the clubhouse; I’m just sayin.
Miss Natacha. Why are you talking about fox news? I did not mention fox news. My sources for the information about the DPRK artillery are not from FOX but I did not cite them.
My source for the point about Assad was consortium news. It is not Fox. Not even close. Wake up from your delusions and false aspersions.
You accused ME of being a jealous advocate for HRC. See above. I listed several of the main reasons why Trump has earned such a high disapproval rating amongst reasonable people. I asked you which of these issues are lies.
Now, you are saying I am delusional? I asked you what facts I got wrong. I’m still waiting for a response.
“It is not “unhinged’ to note that Trump constantly lies”
It is when one that says if frequently can’t prove the significant lies she talks about.
Your “comments” are little more than window dressing and fluffer chaff. As I stated above, those who have remained rational and objective know a charlatan fraudster when they see it and have no problem pointing it out. Those of your ilk, the gullible rubes, dupes, klan wannabees, pocket-traitors and grifters on the make, are merely delaying the day of reckoning for the criminogenic cabal now infesting the White House. That ticking sound you’re hearing is a lot louder in the U.S. Attorney’s Office of the Southern District of New York. So sorry for your loss, and your condition.
this is to ‘damn, why can’t hannity issue better material than this crap” kurtzie
lol that’s funny. i never listen to hannity but I wish him well
i don’t need to keep on trying to tutor the unteachable on this subject. you are a day late and a dollar short.
Mespo, Your explanation of the assumed facts is correct. The negotiations have to do with nuclear weapons and American security. I don’t know what other pieces of the puzzle were involved at the time or who did what.
Let us assume the worst facts on this $2M are true and in the end this situation expedited a solution to the nuclear nightmare. Most sensible people would be happy. It sounds like Professor Turley and the left would be very disappointed.
All of these exchanges occurred at a time when a “coup” was being attempted against the President. Turley’s eye seems to catch the most unimportant factors of America’s turnaround where the GDP is now estimated at 3.2% along with a host of other unexpected things that are good for America and American citizens.
If you really believe fulfilling the signed agreement’s terms may have “expedited a solution to the nuclear nightmare,” how do you think reneging on the signed agreement could affect the denuclearization process?
clarify this question and you may get an answer
Why? I asked an open-ended question and received an answer: Even if Allan really believes keeping the agreement may have expedited a solution to the nuclear nightmare, reneging on the agreement affects ongoing negotiations “not at all”.
He then goes on to imply that maybe he doesn’t actually think keeping the agreement could have played a role in ending the nuclear nightmare, dismissing the Warmbier incident as “petty” and “trivial”. We’re left to assume that in his earlier post he was merely making an excuse to entertain a fantasy of libs being sad about Trump bringing a triumphant end to NK’s nuke threat. Sad.
Brad, do you really think you have all the information involved in the talks that led to the release Otto? If you do, you are wrong. Do you know who actually made the deal? I don’t think we do though Trump may have accepted it because it was so intertwined with negotiations that occurred with a nuclear power that hasn’t kept any agreements. In negotiation the idea is to move forward and sometimes certain ideas have to be thrown away. Otto was a US citizen that should have been returned without any deal and he was returned in a terminal state. Yes, compared to what Trump is trying to do this incident is trivial and anyone that thinks otherwise is trivial as well.
You don’t have the slightest idea of the effect the incident has on the North Koreans. In negotiations things do not always appear the way they are. Not everyone is stupid and shows their cards in advance or tells everyone in advance what they intend to do. I leave that type of idiocy to the Obama administration. Democrats make a big deal over the fact that for years they made agreements with North Korea that were not kept. Oh, wait Democrats kept making deals despite the fact that the previous deals were broken (include BushX2) and the fact that Trump has made inroads seem to p!sh off Democrats because they let this crazy nation become a nuclear power and a threat. Democrats can’t look at their record because it stinks so they concentrate on trivialities and do everything they can to subvert the negotiations God forbid that Trump might have a victory. To the Democrats politics is more important than the safety of the nation and its people.
Please tell us what “inroads” Trump has made with N Korea, other than getting them to let us pay for Lil’ Kim to show up at coming out parties we throw for him, IF, we also agree to stop doing military exercises with S Korea.
If Trump wants to learn how to do nuclear deals, he should study Obama’s style in getting Iran to dismantle their system while being occupied full time by IAEA inspectors, a plan both Israeli and our military intelligence verified was working. He did this without once telling any mullahs he had a crush on them or making excuses for their behavior.
“Please tell us what “inroads” Trump has made with N Korea, other than getting them to let us pay for Lil’ Kim to show up at coming out parties we throw for him, IF, we also agree to stop doing military exercises with S Korea”
May not seem that big to you but missiles whizzing over Tokyo got the Japanese in a bona fide huff. Haven’t seen that so much anymore. North and South Korea cooperation seems to work, too. Other than no missiles flying around Asia and a possible end to the Korean War, Trump has done nothing.
Funny about that, but NK fired very few missiles during Obama’s terms. Probably not Trump’s fault – for a change – but he’s been tested and probably as an easy mark.
“1,063 Documented Examples of Barack Obama’s Lying, Lawbreaking, Corruption, Cronyism, Hypocrisy, Waste, Etc.
1) Carried out military interventionism in Libya without Congressional approval
In June 2011, U.S. Congressman Dennis Kucinich (D-Ohio) said that Obama had violated the Constitution when he launched military operations in Libya without Congressional approval.
In April 2014, Ralph Nader said that Obama should be impeached for his actions in Libya.
2) Gave a no-bid contract to Halliburton cronies – just like Bush did
In May 2010, it was reported that the Obama administration had selected KBR, a former subsidiary of Halliburton, for a no-bid contract worth as much as $568 million through 2011, just hours after the Justice Department had said it would pursue a lawsuit accusing the Houston-based company of using kickbacks to get foreign contracts.
Don’t be fooled by the words “former subsidiary.” These are the same Halliburton cronies that Bush gave a no-bid contract to.
3) Has an administration full of lobbyists, after promising he wouldn’t have any
On November 15, 2007, in Las Vegas, Nevada, Obama said that lobbyists
“… will not work in my White House.”
However, by February 2010, he had more than 40 lobbyists working in his administration. A list of them can be seen here.
3 down 1,060 to go.
Patience is a virtue that not all people have.
Obama didn’t get Iran to dismantle its quest for nuclear weapons and missles. Instead he provided the capital for them to build them, continue to opress Iran’s people and supply missiles to terrorists. Then, at the end of the deal not that far in the future they can have all the nukes they want.
I won’t bother mentioning what Mespo already said.
Don’t let hate of the man get in the way of proper thinking.
Allan, Israeli and US military intelligence don;t agree with you.
The diplomatic issues surrounding Iran deal are very different than the Korea deal. I was not against the Obama deal with Iran. But I feel the issues are rather different. Neither one is wholly about proliferation, or not.
I think there is sometimes a misperception among some Republicans as to the extent to which Iran is perceived as a threat in Israel. Strong Likud supporters may take Bibi’s word for a lot of things that are not uniformly agreed in Israel. IT seems like some Israelis perceive the Iran attempts at nuclear development as a very serious threat but others do not. This often is a Likud versus Labor issue. It is not for me to dictate to Israelis their opinions or say who is right.
It is also complicated because Israel is not a signatory to the NNPT which guarantees peaceful nuclear energy development to its signatories. The US is a party to the treaty however and it was on balance a good thing to try and prevent nonproliferation. Peaceful nuclear energy programs are supposed to be lawful for the various nations to attempt, under guidelines and monitoring. I would not know to what extent Iran has kept up with its obligations udner the deal or not. JUst as I granted Obama’s deal was legit, I will take Trump’s choice to withdraw as legit and leave it at that.
The relationship with Russia is a different dynamic too. Russia has a relatively good relationship with Israel both right and left, at this time, if I understand it correctly. Russia is a strategic restraint on Iran perhaps even more so than China is a restraint on the DPRK.
The factors are not two dimensional in either case. the stupid mass media oversimplifies everthing en route to selling more time to advertisers like match dot com and other uneless garbage.
Also i should add that it seems like DPRK is actually a signatory to the NNPT even if it has not complied with all requirements. thats what the internet says. anyhow
Why don’t you tell us what Israeli intelligence has said and who was the one saying it?
US intelligence has found that despite the Iranians not permitting US officials to investigate the sites and having the Iranians provide soil samples that they were able to determine that the Iranians lied.
Do you know the procedure for validating Iran living up to the agreement? I don’t think so because the procedure is ridiculous and doesn’t permit adequate access to assess what Iran is or is not doing. We have had to use indirect evidence to prove that they have not complied. Obama liked to accept whatever he was told by the Iranian government. Obama wasn’t honest to the American people.
Here are three more of Obama’s lies, failures, etc.
4) Has close ties to Wall St., but pretends to support Occupy Wall St.
Although Obama claims to support the Occupy Wall St. movement, the truth is that he has raised more money from Wall St. than any other candidate during the last 20 years. In early 2012, Obama held a fundraiser where Wall St. investment bankers and hedge fund managers each paid $35,800 to attend. In October 2011, Obama hired Broderick Johnson, a longtime Wall Street lobbyist, to be his new senior campaign adviser. Johnson had worked as a lobbyist for JP Morgan Chase, Bank of America, Fannie Mae, Comcast, Microsoft, and the oil industry.
5) Broke his promise to close Guantanamo Bay
Obama broke his promise to close Guantanamo Bay.
6) Supported the $700 billion TARP corporate-welfare bailout just like Bush
While Senator, Obama voted for the $700 billion TARP bank bailout bill. The bailout rewarded irresponsible and illegal behavior. It redirected resources from more productive uses to less productive uses. It punished the hard working taxpayers who had played by the rules and obeyed the law. It created horrible incentives, and sent the wrong message. The bailout was evil because it rewarded the bad people and punished the good people. No society that does this can expect to remain free or prosperous. Instead of bailing out these corrupt corporations, we should have let them cease to exist, like we did with Enron.
“To quote the former head of Israeli Military Intelligence Amos Yadlin: “The agreement rolls back the Iranian nuclear program to the point of a breakout time [to produce enough fuel for one nuclear weapon] of one year, reduces the scope of the program, and places it under a verification regime that is much more invasive than the current system and includes access to military facilities. For at least the next ten years, the threat of nuclear armament in Iran has been reduced.”…
Ephraim Halevy, the former chief of Israel’s foreign intelligence agency, Mossad, issued a similar assessment: “I believe this agreement closes the roads and blocks the road to Iranian nuclear military capabilities for at least a decade. And I believe that the arrangements that have been agreed between the parties are such that [they] give us a credible answer to the Iranian military threat, at least for a decade, if not longer.”…”
“IAEA Says Iran Abiding by Nuclear Deal
…“Iran is implementing its nuclear commitments,” said Yukiya Amano, director-general of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), in March 4 remarks to the agency’s Board of Governors. Amano urged Tehran to continue adhering to the deal, known as the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA)….
The IAEA quarterly report on Iran’s nuclear program, released publicly just days after Amano’s statement, contains additional details demonstrating that Iran is abiding by the deal’s terms. It notes that Iran’s stockpile of enriched uranium is below the 300-kilogram cap set by the JCPOA and that Iran has not enriched uranium above the limit of 3.67 percent uranium-235, far below the 90 percent level considered useful for weapons purposes.
The report notes that the agency has had access to “all the sites and locations in Iran which it needed to visit.”…”
oh i get the question now. will reneging help the deal.
I suspect that reneging was expected and it was a face saving measure for the koreans, to make the promise, and face saving for the US to renege. that would be my guess.
kind of like the cheating wife (or husband) who promises not to do it again and the husband who promises to forgive her. neither will really happen but it’s necessary to maintain an ongoing partnership in other things.
you guys really make too much out of the Otto piece of this much bigger thing.
Not at all. N. Korea has broken every agreement made and we essentially funded their nuclear weapons program.
I don’t think we have all the facts surrounding this petty question. Small minds (not talking about anyone in particular) are unable to understand how the negotiating process works so I don’t draw quick conclusions based on a complex situation such as the one we have had with Korea since the Korean War.. I think Turley spent too much time on this trivial issue where he has incomplete knowledge and training.
The situation is hard to address. Making a fission device is actually not that difficult and the technology is out there. With enough money any nation state actor can develop a program. We should resist proliferation but as time and technology roll on the problem will only worsen. the DPRK is a horrible, murderous, oppressive, dangerously rogue and awful regime but their nukes are fait accompli. The main goal now should be stability, non-proliferation, and relative calm vis a vis the ROK which has been the goals of every president from Bill Clinton who declined the war option right up until Trump
Trump deals responsibly with this, makes a legit choice to dismiss the small issue of one man’s suffering against the fates of tens of millions, and as they say,
“No good deed goes unpunished.”
Again, Trump has gotten nada, bupkes, zippo. Some deal maker. If he did we accept his “strategic” thinking. In it’s absence, it looks like more groveling before another murderous dictator.
3.2% GDP Growth etc. etc.
“but their nukes are fait accompli.”
Brad says: April 29, 2019 at 11:59 AM
“If you really believe fulfilling the signed agreement’s terms may have ‘expedited a solution to the nuclear nightmare,’ how do you think reneging on the signed agreement could affect the denuclearization process?”
Outstanding work, Brad. Allan, like so many other Trump disciples, really, really, truly, truly wanted Trump to get the Nobel Peace Prize for denuclearizing North Korea. For the exact reason that you identified: “to entertain a fantasy of libs being sad about Trump bringing a triumphant end to NK’s nuke threat.”
(See: “On The Waterfront” for “I could’ve been a contender.”)
No Diane, I don’t look for Trump to get a Nobel Prize. Obama got the Peace Prize when he should have gotten an award for marksmanship as he killed people all over the world with drones. Wonderful guy creating new messes worldwide, drawing red lines, making promises and breaking them.
I don’t want that for Trump. I just want him to make things better like the economy 3.2% growth, see to it Americans are employed and get raises like he has done (we watched stagnation or worse under Obama). I want Trump to destroy what Obama called the JV team in an efficient and effective manner. Unfortunately Trump could only get the geographical JV team for Obama let it metastasize all over.
Nobel Peace Prizes are for Democrats that like to pat themselves on the back for doing a good job when they failed..
As far as North Korea there is no guarantee that Trump will succeed and the chances have been lessened by Democrats who look at their personal victories as more important than the safety and security of the American people.
If you don’t like it, Allan, then stop accusing your adversaries of being Stalinist baby-killers in Ku Klux Klan robes.
“If you don’t like it, Allan, then stop accusing your adversaries of being Stalinist baby-killers in Ku Klux Klan robes.”
Diane, why should you be so afraid of the truth?
Since you are apparently fixated on the former two-term President, I must tell you that not only was Barack HUSSEIN Obama the greatest President of the United States and Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces since Harry Truman; but prior to his marriage, he undoubtedly had “access” to the white women.
this is to “well, they can have the fat ones, I guess” allan / allen
He wasnt. Obama that is; he was not the greatest POTUS, nor the worst, to be sure.
But I made modest defenses of his strategic inactivity vis a vis the DPRK in this thread at least twice. And I voiced my modest acceptance of his Iran deal. Yet, you’re a contentious and uncivil person, so you are make some kind of bizarre racial taunt at me, because you stupidly and ignorantly assumed i was attacking your idol.
Which reveals that you have returned with your characteristic lack of attention to the relevant exchanges in the conversation, littering this forum with insults. Sad!
Obama’s history of lies and failures page 2 (abridged)
10) Expanded Bush’s unconstitutional government faith based programs
Obama expanded the federal government’s faith based programs which had been started by President George W. Bush.
11) Supported Bush’s unconstitutional Patriot Act
In May 2011, Obama signed a renewal of the Patriot Act.
12) Increased the national debt more in one term than Bush did in two
The national debt increased more during Obama’s first three years and two months than it did during all eight years of George W. Bush’s presidency.
13) Agrees with Bush’s support of unconstitutional, indefinite detention of U.S. citizens without filing any charges
In December 2011, ACLU executive director Anthony D. Romero criticized Obama for signing a bill that gave the U.S. government the power to indefinitely detain U.S. citizens without any charges being filed or any trial taking place.
14) Agrees with Bush’s support of unconstitutional, warrantless wiretapping
President Obama has defended warrantless wiretapping.
15) Avoided prosecution of Wall. St criminals
Although Obama had promised to prosecute Wall St. criminals, during his entire first term, his administration did not file any criminal charges against any of the top financial executives.
16) Had four U.S. citizens killed without judicial process
Obama had four U.S. citizens killed without judicial process.
The ACLU accused Obama of violating the U.S. Constitution for doing this.
17) Ordered private company to fire 1,000 employees.
18) Stole money from retired teachers and police officers
19) Supported release of convicted mass murderer.
20) Illegally put thousands of guns into hands of criminals
Allan wrote: “Obama got the Peace Prize when he should have gotten an award for marksmanship as he killed people all over the world with drones.”
Trump revokes Obama rule on reporting drone strike deaths
“There have been 2,243 drone strikes in the first two years of the Trump presidency, compared with 1,878 in Mr Obama’s eight years in office, according to the Bureau of Investigative Journalism, a UK-based think tank.”
Trump didn’t run on ideas that won Obama the Peace Prize when he first came to office. Then again that exposes Obama for what he truly is… a lier.
Anonymous / Diane Obama was a liar and that helped permit him win the Nobel Peace Prize. Are you trying to double down?
Allan: the $2 million IS true, but it is false that Trump expedited a solution to a nuclear nightmare, because there is solid photographic proof that the N. Korean nuclear missile program continued chugging right along as it had been before. Trump accomplished absolutely nothing other than to affirm the fact that he is a malignant narcissist who needs affirmation.
There is no “coup” attempt here. Most Americans did not vote for Trump. A growing number of Americans disapprove of him for valid reasons. The GDP is on a slower trajectory than when Trump took office, but this is irrelevant to Trump’s unfitness for office. The Mueller Report set forth disturbing facts about the involvement of the Russians in the 2016 election and Trump’s obstruction of justice and attempts to obstruct justice, many of which did not go through because his own staff know he’s unhinged. Are Congressional Democrats supposed to just ignore all of this? If you think that, ask yourself why last fall’s election resulted in the biggest turnover of House seats since Watergate. The Senate would also have gone Democratic but for Republican gerrymandering. Trump said to make the 2018 midterms about him, so it was and he lost. The American people have spoken. The American people want Congress to conduct their oversight responsibilities as set forth in the Constitution. Hannity and Rush can complain all they want to, but Congress was given a mandate. Now, Trump and Barr are set to create a Constitutional crisis by refusing to respond to subpoenas. Trump has actually said that he expects Gorsuch and Kavanaugh to save him. What does that tell you? If they have nothing to hide, then they should welcome the investigations instead of trying to hamstring them and creating the “coup” false narrative.
Natacha, you have a very short view of things and make too many mistakes. The Democrats have hindered Trump’s ability to make a deal. He may not get what he wants but it is worth a try and he has gotten further than all of the other Presidents.
Now you can continue to rant and rave.
she’s wrong. there are details she is glossing over. it’s pointless to repeat them. in short however, they discontinued some things and maybe have now started up some other things.
details matter but for likes of her it’s just pick and choose whatever isolated things support her overly broad contentions at the moment. not serious!
Of course Natacha is wrong. She almost always is and that explains her lack of examples to prove her case.
Still waiting on the solid proof. On any subject matter advanced by the smiley faced left. Next thing you know they’ll be claiming their fairy tale Democracy was authorized in the Constitution although I’m not sure what that or Constitutional Republic has to do with the teachings of Marx andenin the Preachings of Lenin.
So exactly what does your foreign ideology have to do with Our Constitutional Republic?
It’s not a “contradiction”; one can only contradict oneself. It’s a refutation.
Bolton says, Trump says, “Simon didn’t say, ‘Simon says.'”
When they actually load the cash in shrink wrapped euros and deliver a pallet of them to NoKo, get back to me.
As for the fake news charge, it’s just Trump’s blather and is no better or worse than the networks calling every disagreement in perception a LIE! For example, Trump calls the caravan an invasion, CNN and Univision scream that he lies. Crickets from JT.
Turley doesn’t need to correct every single outrageous falsehood advanced by the mass media. That would take an army of researchers and who believes them now much anyhow.
Trump in his own words from “The Art of the Deal”:
One thing I’ve learned about the press is that they’re always hungry for a good story, and the more sensational the better. It’s in the nature of the job, and I understand that. The point is that if you are a little different, or a little outrageous, or if you do things that are bold or controversial, the press is going to write about you.
[F]rom a pure business point of view, the benefits of being written about have far outweighed the drawbacks. It’s really quite simple … The funny thing is that even a critical story, which may be hurtful personally, can be very valuable to your business.
Two hundred years of public education with teachers, preachers, and parents saying ‘don’t contradict me’ andyou mean to say they were all wrong?
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