Russians Warn Greeks That United States Will Abandon Them Like It Abandoned The Kurds

We have been discussing the disastrous decision of President Donald Trump to withdraw U.S. forces from the Turkish border with virtually no warning to his own agencies and allies. While some of us support the effort to remove troops from these countries, there is overwhelming condemnation from Republicans and Democrats in how this was done. The Turks have been accused of war crimes and ethnic cleansing as Russia occupies former U.S. bases in the area. Worse yet, Vladimir Chizhov, Russia’s Ambassador to the EU, has warned our other allies that the United States cannot be trusted and that they must now look to Moscow for a reliable friend: “We warned the Kurds that the Americans would abandon them. And here in Rhodes, I can personally warn the Greeks to think about whether a similar fate awaits them.”

Chizhov was speaking at the International Forum of Dialogues of Culture in the Greek island of Rhodes and seeking to undermine the defense agreement between the United States and Greece. The open use of the abandonment of the Kurds surprised many. This is the type of argument usually made behind closed doors.

Trump often speaks of his friendship and respect for Russian President Vladimir Putin but the feeling hardly seems mutual as Putin and his government have undermined the Trump Administration in countless ways. While Trump recently wished the Russians the best of luck in its efforts in Syria, Russia is using Trump’s decision now to undermine confidence in our loyalty around the world.

Once again, the issue is not the underlying policy of getting out of Syria, but how the decision was made. Trump himself said that he has no intention to withdrawing troops in areas that protect Israel or oil interests. Yet, he overruled his military and national security staff in ordering a withdrawal to green light the Turkish invasion — an invasion that has killed hundreds and displaced thousands. Trump followed this sudden decision by tearing down the Kurds and belittling the issue as two schoolyard kids fighting. He also bizarrely claimed that the Kurds are delighted with how things are working out.

Both Republicans and Democrats joined this week in condemning the President’s actions in a 354-60 vote.

137 thoughts on “Russians Warn Greeks That United States Will Abandon Them Like It Abandoned The Kurds”

  1. Greece is a poor country with a small population.
    But Greece is part of NATO and the EU.

    The Kurds are neither. They’re not even a nation-state.

    The US can’t allow Turkey to do too much against NATO and EU members which are both American dominated structures. either directly or indirectly, or it will imperil its own interests.

    Alliances can occur on different levels. Hierarchical organizations serve purposes.

    Let me see if I can cast some light on this for those who continue to fail to grasp this.

    Kurds were a contract party.
    Greeks are a partner.
    You want to break up with a contractor, that’s one thing.
    Breaking up with a partner is another.

    The Russians are goading the Greek population, but, since Greece is mostly ruled by a financial and administrative elite, which manipulates skillfully its current socalled “democracy,” what the Greek population thinks or feels will not matter too much for its long term direction. Not under the current arrangements, that is. The Russians will goad, nevertheless.

    We saw during the NATO bombing of Serbia, which was trying to reign in an Islamist insurgency in Bosnia, which NATO was intervening to support, that the “feelings” of the Greek population which were sympathetic to the Serbs, was not anything that the US was going to worry about too much whatsoever. The Russians goaded the Greeks then too, but there wasn’t much else the Russians were going to do at the time about it, besides sell some guns and vodka and mercenaries to the Serbs, what a lot of good it did them.

    Corrupt as these Greek elites may be, over the long haul, they may be smart, if little else commends them…….Greece just issued its first negative interest rate bond. And it had buyers! Figure that one out!

  2. And so it begins. I am an American citizen, and I may well trust Russia to have my back, as this shithole country obviously will not.

  3. King Aegisalius of Sparta was visiting another city. They were proudly showing off their large walls and fortifications. He said “what charming womens’ quarters you have there.”

  4. in ancient Sparta women had comparatively more “Rights’ than in other Greek city states. they girls were allowed to exercise publicly, they could inherit land, they had a more revealing form of dress, and they often managed the household when their husbands were busy with war.

    a visitor asked Queen Gorgo, wife of Leonidas, “Why are you Spartan women the only ones who can rule men?” She said: “Because we are the only women who give birth to men.”

  5. We never agreed to protect the Kurds. And in any case, in utterly predictable fashion, the Kurds are forming an alliance with the Syrian government with regard to Turkey. They’re not being left out in the snow. Syria was protecting the area where the Kurds reside before we went blundering in there. In addition, a certain amount of wariness is in order when referring to any of the groups in the Middle East.

    My sense is that if the Kurds had enough guns, the would lop off northern Iraq, northern Syria, and a huge chunk of Turkey — where they have been waging an insurgency for years. They consider these lands part of Kurdistan. And they wouldn’t be particularly humane about how they did it. But they don’t have the guns. So they’re not doing it.

    It’s something to think about the next time someone like Obama or W. wants to go meddling in these areas.

  6. The bipartisan vote of 364-60 came about solely as a result of the barrage of phone calls that the politicians received from lobbyists in the Military-Industrial-Complex, who enable the funding of those politicians. In other words, it’s all about campaign money and has nothing to do with national security. For those unacquainted with how this money-revolving door system operates, here’s a primer:

  7. Oh, Greeks know that when it comes to Turkey, the US will downplay Greek interests.

    Here’s a few examples, which make this perfectly clear. Greeks know these full well and probably didn’t need the Russians to rub their noses in the dung of it.

    1– an island with a Greek population under illegal Turkish occupation of half of the territory called CYPRUS

    2– Turkish military vessels and aircraft habitually tresspassing into Greek territory: Turks are the more important “NATO ALLY” who get to do what they want and US turns a blind eye

    3– GREECE INVADED BY OVER A MILLION SYRIAN REFUGEES PASSING THROUGH AIDED AND ABETTED BY TURKEY

    So the story is what it is. Greeks will tend to have less sympathy for Kurds in light of these things, not more.

  8. The best way I’ve found of following events in Syria is here:

    https://syria.liveuamap.com/

    The ceasefire ends in the next day. Erdogan is meeting with Putin in Sochi right now. Putin is the only one negotiating between Syria and Turkey. Turkey is isolated at the moment: the EU, the US, and Russia are all opposing him! Assad has once again vowed to retake “every inch” of Syrian land. I can’t imagine that Turkey wants war with Russia and Syria. Russia has made clear that only the Syrian government gets to decide what happens to it’s land.

  9. Do you, Mr. Turley, support the recognition of an independent Kurdistan carved from territory now held by Iran, Iraq, Syria and Turkey?

    Will you support the war that will accompany that recognition?

    Do you support expelling our ally Turkey from NATO?

    Do you support delisting the YPG as a terrorist organization, which we have done because of the terrorist acts they have committed against our NATO ally Turkey, specifically against Turkish children?

    Do you, Mr. Turley, understand what a colossal clusterf*ck people like you have made of this situation with your grandiose moralizing based on a special needs child’s understanding of the situation?

    Do any of your readers and commenters understand that all of you put together do not possess an aggregate IQ high enough to microwave a bowl of Chef Boyardee ravioli without causing a nuclear accident?

  10. JT you are wasting your time trying to tell any fact or truth to the trump supporter that believes they would rather be Russian than a Democrat. trump has made Russia great again.

  11. JT, Russia is allowed to speak the truth and have its own foreign policy. If the US had not, in fact, abandoned one former ally after another, the Russian would not be able to point out this obvious fact. Why is the US supposed to run the world?

    All our current good buddy dictators and “glorious technocrats” “leading” nations such as Brazil, Chile, Honduras, Haiti, France and Spain are engaged in extraordinarily brutal crackdowns on their own people. Their people are calling for redress of grievance against wrong doing by their despicable governments. Are we saying anything about that? No we are not.

    Many of our former good buddy dictators to include torture friend Assad, were betrayed by the US. Shall we go on with Iran, then Gaddfi, then Saddam who had the paperwork for our prior sales to him of poison gas which he used against Iran? Perhaps you remember Vietnam? Is there some reason other nations, besides Israel and possibly Saudi Arabia, SHOULD trust the US?

    The US has already betrayed Greece and laid them low via the IMF (which our nation controls, along with Germany). In short, you can look at almost any nation in the world and see the blood of innocents from the hand of USGinc.

    Instead of complaining about Russia pointing out the obvious, you and the rest of us need to clean up the act of this evil, out of control entity called the USG. Our focus needs to be right here, right now. We have a job to do and Russia isn’t involved in that job. We the people of the US are.

  12. Blah blah blah. Why is the banal public diplomacy of the Russian government of the slightest interest.

    As for Greece, it’s an interesting place for the aesthetic element: the climate, the cuisine, the music, the artifacts, &c. It has a perfectly dreadful political culture and is badly governed. Greek elites make practical deals with the United States and other western powers, but the Greek public has an inveterate hostility to our country (among others). We should assist Greece for reasons of state ONLY, and do the minimum necessary.

    1. Absurd: So it’s nothing to worry about??

      Trump sells-out U.S. prestige and subjects our former allies to refugee status. What’s more, Trump pulls the plug without consulting The Pentagon or State Department. Yet you dismiss the entire tragedy as no big deal at all while suggesting Greece is hardly worth a second thought.

      It sounds like you are tangled in that web of cynicism commonly known as ‘moral bankruptcy’; a condition that seems to engulf every Trump supporter.

    2. The Greek population is geographically diverse. The islanders have their idiosyncratic cultures and interests, the Athenians who have a glut of descendants from people ejected from Turkey have theirs, and the Pelopennesians have theirs.

      What a lot of people not clued into Greece don’t realize, is that as “progressive” and “leftists” as many of the residents of Attica may be, equally as “conservative” if not flat out right-wing, are the Pelopennesians.

      Of course one might expect those who live on the soil once ruled by Sparta would be more conservative, and the urbane sophisticates of Athens today are about like the effeminate urbane sophisticates of Athens before. Indeed, the supposedly fascist “Golden Dawn” has drawn many of its leaders from the Peloponnese and Lakonia itself.

      This shows some similarity to other countries even our own, where the megapolises have a more leftish culture and the flyover agricultural regions a more conservative one.

      There is a story from antiquity, I can’t recall the precise details but it’s something like this.

      They said the best pottery was made in Thebes.
      They said the best garments were made in Corinth.
      they said the best politicians were made in Athens.

      What then do the Spartans make best? someone asked.

      SPARTANS MAKE THE BEST MEN

  13. Once again, who wrote the above article? I do not believe it was Prf. Turley.

    To wit: “We have been discussing the disastrous decision of President Donald Trump to withdraw U.S. forces from the Turkish border. . .”

    Huh??? I think Prof. Turley would have used the word “controversial”, “questionable”, or “much maligned.” Words that do not go ahead and make the decision for the reader, but just presents the facts.

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

    1. “Huh??? I think Prof. Turley would have used the word “controversial”, “questionable”, or “much maligned.”

      Squeaky, that is the problem with Professor Turley. He is a professor and bright but he has trouble keeping bias and logic seperate. Where politics is blind the blindfold is taken off.

  14. Total disaster? Says who? If there’s a ‘disaster’ in this scenario it would be *sticking with* Saudi Arabia, but that’s nothing new – should we have been in Syria in the first place? Opinions may vary, but these aren’t rhetorical statements.

    1. What did anyone expect from some one who is clueless about how people live. Trump only cares about how he look’s in front of his base and how much money he can make in this world.

  15. JT:

    “Trump often speaks of his friendship and respect for Russian President Vladimir Putin but the feeling hardly seem mutual as Putin and his government have undermined the Trump Administration in countless ways. While Trump recently wished the Russians the best of luck in its efforts in Syria, Russia is using Trump’s decision now to undermine confidence in our loyalty around the world.”

    The guy who owes the other one pays respect. The creditor, not so much.

  16. Please provide a link that shows Trump calling Putin a friend.

    ‘Disastrous decision.” Please explain in what way it is a disaster.

    Do we really care what the Greeks think?

  17. “We have been discussing the disastrous decision of President Donald Trump to withdraw U.S. forces from the Turkish border with virtually no warning to his own agencies and allies. “

    Disasterous decisions?

    Libya
    Yemen
    Syria
    Iraq
    Somalia
    Afghanistan

    All those have one thing in common. We spilled blood and or treasure. Suddenly not to oppose the 9th strongest army with 50 troops is a disaster. It may have been a wrong decision or a right one but when looking at the other interventions above one has to prove such an intervention is an absolute necessity and so far the only claim is that the Kurds were our allies when they were not allies (Turkey is a NATO ally).

    I won’t berate any side of the argument if they provide logical proof and a detailed plan including all the contingencies. The disaster is that an intelligent professor of law can make such a comment without considering all sides of the issue.

    1. Paul, you’re saying that Trump has honored a long tradition by screwing the Kurds..?? That sounds like one those mealymouthed excuses from a Trump apologist.

      1. Francis Clerke – okay, I have 28 men to stop one of the largest armies in the region. What would you have me do?

        1. Paul, do you really need an answer to know what Peter Hill would do? He has a yellow stripe down his back and if you press him too hard he will pee in his pants. Isn’t that enough to tell you what he is made of?

  18. Well our loyalty certainly extends to anyone we ever help out for all eternity and of course loyalty to our own citizen-soldiers be damned. Anyone who thinks America will risk soldiers and treasure for them to the exclusion of our interests deserves the inevitable rude awakening when reality sets in. “Green light” the invasion? Really? Are we, under this verbal construct, thus complicit in whatever Turkey does?

    1. Our Syrian troops are going to Iraq, not home. Next time ISIS. or some other Jihadist group runs amok, we won’t have the Kurds to carry the weight.

        1. You mean to cover our weak a.s president’s butt? Too late, but a competent president would have told Erdogen to stuff it and keep his troops home. He got played and we got nothing except embarrassment.

          The Art of the Deal.

          1. Anon1 – I know that according to you things are busy with you little construction company and that is great. I wish you success. However, we had 28 men as a tripwire and Erdogen said he was moving in. Now, what would you do with those 28 men? Sacrifice them? Or pull them back?

            What is your decision?

            1. Paul, let’s go with that excuse. Shouldn’t Trump have called for a meeting of the Joint Chiefs Of Staff..?? And by the way, it was 1,500 men, not 28 men.

              Trump could have told Turkey to work with NATO or the U.N. regarding the Kurds. U.S. presidents don’t just sell-out allies and announce it by tweet without consulting anyone. And anyone thinks that’s acceptable has no awareness of the larger world.

    2. Mespo, we have the greatest military of all times and fat from a budget boom Trump brags about all the time. We got pushed over by a despot and got nothing. In fact we’ll pay for this in ways graphically demonstrated by this incident i Greece. Loyalty and keeping your word has value which I am sure you recognize in your personal life. How would that not play out in world politics.

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