Russians Warn Greeks That United States Will Abandon Them Like It Abandoned The Kurds

We have been discussing the disastrous decision of President Donald Trump to withdraw U.S. forces from the Turkish border with virtually no warning to his own agencies and allies. While some of us support the effort to remove troops from these countries, there is overwhelming condemnation from Republicans and Democrats in how this was done. The Turks have been accused of war crimes and ethnic cleansing as Russia occupies former U.S. bases in the area. Worse yet, Vladimir Chizhov, Russia’s Ambassador to the EU, has warned our other allies that the United States cannot be trusted and that they must now look to Moscow for a reliable friend: “We warned the Kurds that the Americans would abandon them. And here in Rhodes, I can personally warn the Greeks to think about whether a similar fate awaits them.”

Chizhov was speaking at the International Forum of Dialogues of Culture in the Greek island of Rhodes and seeking to undermine the defense agreement between the United States and Greece. The open use of the abandonment of the Kurds surprised many. This is the type of argument usually made behind closed doors.

Trump often speaks of his friendship and respect for Russian President Vladimir Putin but the feeling hardly seems mutual as Putin and his government have undermined the Trump Administration in countless ways. While Trump recently wished the Russians the best of luck in its efforts in Syria, Russia is using Trump’s decision now to undermine confidence in our loyalty around the world.

Once again, the issue is not the underlying policy of getting out of Syria, but how the decision was made. Trump himself said that he has no intention to withdrawing troops in areas that protect Israel or oil interests. Yet, he overruled his military and national security staff in ordering a withdrawal to green light the Turkish invasion — an invasion that has killed hundreds and displaced thousands. Trump followed this sudden decision by tearing down the Kurds and belittling the issue as two schoolyard kids fighting. He also bizarrely claimed that the Kurds are delighted with how things are working out.

Both Republicans and Democrats joined this week in condemning the President’s actions in a 354-60 vote.

137 thoughts on “Russians Warn Greeks That United States Will Abandon Them Like It Abandoned The Kurds”

  1. This all started when Woodrow Wilson said that America was going to Make The World Safe For Democracy!

    Yes. How many have died and how many were wounded in this endeavor? There has been no declaration of war since that date on December 7th, 1941, which will remain a date which will live in finfamy. Then we had that New Yorker dork named FDR. Korea, Vietnam, the Muddle East, Afghanistan, Kurds. It takes a lamb brain to be in favor of all these wars. Trump is saying some good things.

    There is an old song out there with these lyrics: We gotta get outta this place. If its the last thing we ever do.

    and:
    Hurry on down to Vietnam! Don’t ask me I don’t give a damn. Next stop is Vietnam!

    For those of you who wish to stay in Kurdistan and Afghanistan I say: Go yourself and bring your kids and grandkids. Kill the commies, kill the evil canivals. Kill, kill, kill!

    I say: Pull out. Like your father should have. Then youi wouldn’t have been born and your mom would not have had a roll in the hay.

  2. “We have been discussing the disastrous decision of President Donald Trump to withdraw U.S. forces from the Turkish border”
    Turley, the closet neocon?

    Why should we have been there in the first place? That’s what I thought.

    1. Why would he want Trump removed? Trump did exactly as Erdogan ordered him to do: Withdraw US Troops. Then Turkey engaged in cleansing the Kurds from the scene. The Russians moved in and took the military bases the US abandoned under Trump’s order. We had to bomb our own bases.

      Are you FOX news aficionado? Your pathetic display of recounting facts and drawing conclusions indicate that you are.

  3. Bill Taylor – deep state operative:

    “Bill Taylor served in the 82nd and 101st Airborne in Vietnam, the 2nd Cavalry in Germany, followed by diplomatic postings in Iraq, Afghanistan, Israel, NATO and beyond..”

    1. not like the guys from the 82d i knew but they were all enlisted i guess. the kind who like TRUMP and wouldnt think to stab him in the back in front of a kangaroo court

      he was probably a fine ossifer, yes C U R

    2. “Bill Taylor served in the 82nd and 101st Airborne in Vietnam, the 2nd Cavalry in Germany, followed by diplomatic postings in Iraq, Afghanistan, Israel, NATO and beyond.”
      **********************
      Yeah and Arnold commanded a brigade of the Continental Army before burning Richmond to the ground and forcing Thomas Jefferson to flee. What’s your point? No military guy can change his coat?

      1. Sure mespo, you can hold onto that lifeline for a few more months.By then maybe you’ll be able to go to sleep with the light off.

      2. mespo – I have always had a fondness for Benedict Arnold. He was clearly screwed over by the Continental Congress time after time. As the Hero of Saratoga, I am not sure (given all the givens of the Revolution) I wouldn’t have switched sides for a pretty wife. 😉

        1. Paul, most of the soldiers and officers were “screwed over by the Continental Congress time after time”. Do you think that there was a vendetta out for Arnold?

          1. Allan – I know that Gates had it out for him, but he had good reason. You never want to command a general who is twice as good as you. I do know that Washington tried to get him honors and promotions and the Continental Congress stopped them. Was there a vendetta? I do not know. When you consider the number of times Arnold save our butts, he should have had medals dragging down to his boots.

            1. Paul, all were treated poorly by the Continental Congress and all were vying for the top spot. Such competition leads to pain for the loser but one doesn’t generally see a committed person suddenly changing sides. It happens but not all that often. Arnold was among the best of our officers and he was liked by Washington so one wonders why instead of retiring from the army he changed sides and did it in such a dishonorable fashion.

              1. Allan – if you mistreat 20 people the same way do you expect them to react the same way? No, each brings some baggage to the table. You get mistreated enough you quit (traitorous) or you go passive-aggressive and pretend to go along while you are selling out (really traitorous). Arnold took option two, since it had more money attached.

                1. Paul, I agree that all men will react differently to various stimuli but his traitorous action makes it appear that Arnold had no commitment to principle or beliefs. Are you saying that Arnold lacked character and therefore that makes it hard to sympathize or like him?

                  1. Allan – if you put your life on the line several times to safe a country, was severely injured for that country, and then that country spit in your face all the time, wouldn’t you start to get angry about it? Might you not decide to say “What the hell am I killing myself for?”

                    1. Paul, absolutely. But the question is not quitting or speaking out. The question is why he became a traitor and even acted dishonorably while doing so? Did Arnold have no honor in the first place despite the fact that he had the ability to be a great general?

                    2. Allan – Arnold proved himself again and again and got shat on. That does something to you. After a point he began to feel picked on and after he got married, the best guess is that his wife convinced him to switch sides.

                    3. ” the best guess is that his wife convinced him to switch sides.”

                      That demonstrates a smart but morally challenged individual. He could have switched sides without being dishonorable.

                    4. Paul, I am not questioning Arnold’s intelligence or his suffering in the Continental army. I am not even questioning his changing of sides. I am questioning his character based on the way Arnold managed the transition from one camp to the next. His last actions demonstrated a man who lacked principles and character. All the other stuff is merely window dressing to this concern.

                    5. Paul, Arnold was not that mistreated. After Saratoga, Washington appointed him Commander of Philadelphia where he would have plenty of time to rest the leg he broke at Saratoga. There Arnold fell in with upper-class Loyalists who were charming cultured people; including Peggy Shippen’s family. Peggy was only 17 which looked pretty good to the 36 year old Arnold. So over time Arnold felt increasingly comfortable with this new circle of friends. Too comfortable, in fact!

        2. As I recall Arnold was said to have died broke in England after the war & was equal disrespected by everyone as he was a Traitor.

          Bolton/Romney & some others have pretty much cemented their Traitors reputations for eternity in history & as I learn more this Taylor guy is looking like he has a problem also.

          Let’s put it like this, Bolton & Romney tell Trump they’ll love him forever if Trump will just give them what they want.

          Trump gives them their desire. The next thing you know everyone, everywhere see’s Bolton/Romney betraying Trump.

          So at this point it has nothing to do with Trump, it’s about everyone staying away from American Hating Scum like Bolton/Romney.

          I feel sorry for their wives & kids. They should change their names & go into hiding.

    1. https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/California-Rep-Katie-Hill-calls-accusations-of-14554336.php

      WASHINGTON – Rep. Katie Hill, D-Calif., on Tuesday denied allegations that she had an improper relationship with a congressional staffer, accusing Republican operatives and her husband of coordinating a “smear campaign” amid the couple’s pending divorce.

      In a statement, Hill denied allegations that she was romantically involved with her legislative director, Graham Kelly, and condemned the distribution of sexually charged photos that allegedly involved a campaign staffer. The allegations were published last week by the conservative website RedState.org.

      “Allegations that I have been involved in a relationship with Mr. Kelly are absolutely false,” Hill said in the statement. “I am saddened that the deeply personal matter of my divorce has been brought into public view and the vindictive claims of my ex have now involved the lives and reputations of unrelated parties.”

      Neither Kenny Heslep, Hill’s husband, nor Kelly, who is still employed by Hill’s office, responded to requests for comment Tuesday. The divorce proceedings between Hill and Heslep began this summer, Los Angeles County court records show.

      A senior Democratic aide confirmed that Hill reached out to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s, (D-Calif.),office to deny any wrongdoing.

      Under House ethics rules adopted last year in response to high-profile sexual harassment claims involving members of Congress, it is against the official code of conduct for members to “engage in a sexual relationship with any employee” who works for the member.

      The RedState article also alleged that Hill and her husband had been in a consensual relationship with a third person, a female campaign staffer in her 20s. The article included texts and intimate photos that it said included Hill and the staffer.

      In her statement, Hill said she notified Capitol Hill police that the photos were released without her consent. The statement did not address whether Hill had a relationship with a campaign staffer. A spokesperson from the campaign said Hill is unable to comment on the identity of the woman in the photos due to the ongoing investigation into their leak.

      “Intimate photos of me and another individual were published by Republican operatives on the Internet without my consent,” Hill’s statement read, adding that she will not answer further questions on the photos.

      “The fact is I am going through a divorce from an abusive husband who seems determined to try to humiliate me,” her statement continued. “I am disgusted that my opponents would seek to exploit such a private matter for political gain.”

      Hill, a former nonprofit-group executive from Santa Clarita, California, is considered a rising star among the Democrats. In the 2018 election, Hill unseated longtime incumbent Steve Knight, flipping the last Republican congressional seat in Los Angeles County and helping the party regain control of the House.

      Her national profile grew quickly as a star fundraiser, raising over $8.3 million for her first House campaign.

      During the campaign, Hill drew attention from an array of constituencies, including LGBTQ advocacy groups, a Los Angeles-area women’s network and Hollywood celebrities such as actress Kristen Bell, whom she met through her work advocating for the homeless.

      As one of the first openly bisexual people to be elected to Congress, she came in with a freshman class championing diversity and female leadership in Congress.

      She was appointed vice chair of the Oversight Committee, and she is among a group of freshman Democrats who earned the nickname the “Big Six” after being selected for high-profile leadership posts.

      In her statement, Hill said the accusation of sexual impropriety “is despicable and will not succeed. I, like many women who have faced attacks like this before, am stronger than those who want me to be afraid.”

      PANTSUIT MAFIA HEATING UP!

      jpost has the scoop on Ihlan Omar’s illicit affair too

      https://www.jpost.com/American-Politics/Rep-Ilhan-Omar-having-an-affair-with-campaign-manager-report-605362

  4. OPENING STATEMENT OF WILLIAM B TAYLOR JR

    TO IMPEACHMENT INVESTIGATORS TODAY

    As noted in Anon’s New York Times piece, Taylor’s testimony essentially ‘sealed the deal’ with regards to impeachment.

    Taylor was a State Department career professional who was appointed by President George W. Bush to oversee Ukraine. More recently he was sent back to Ukraine after Trump dismissed the appointed ambassador.

    Taylor assumed that he would be handling diplomacy by normal State Department standards with an eye towards protecting Ukraine from Russian aggression. But Taylor quickly discovered that an unofficial delegation was second-guessing State Department pros. They were political appointees of Trump’s (Gordon Sondland, Rudy Giuliani and Rick Perry) whose main purpose was pressuring Ukraine to support Trump’s conspiracy theories.

    Taylor had an odd feeling that Trump was operating in a manner that would alienate Ukraine to the benefit of Russia (not unlike the situation in Syria). Taylor’s fears were shared by National Security Advisor John Bolton and State Department pros.

    The following is a 15 page transcript of Taylor’s opening statement today. It should be noted that Secretary of State Pompeo tried to stop Taylor from appearing this morning.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/context/opening-statement-of-ambassador-william-b-taylor/6b3a6edf-f976-4081-ba7f-bce45468a3ff/

    1. Oh, the horror! The FBI, CIA, NSA, MI6, Australian Ambassador, Hillary’s “Steele dossier,” Obergruppenfuhrer Mueller, Chief of Gestapo Chief Weissmann, Christine Ballsey Ford, etc. ad nauseum, and the “Teflon Don” bulldozes them all and rolls on, crushing the Deep Deep State (Mittens “McShame” Romney et al.) in the opening salvos of the Swamp Wars. Comrade Taylor’s communist mental meanderings as part of the Schiff episode of the Obama Coup D’etat will be soon forgotten like all the rest.

        1. The Obama Coup D’etat in America is the most egregious abuse of power and the most prodigious scandal in American political history.

          The co-conspirators are:

          Rosenstein, Mueller/Team, Andrew Weissmann, Comey, Christopher Wray,

          McCabe, Strozk, Page, Laycock, Kadzic, Yates, Baker, Bruce Ohr, Nellie Ohr,

          Priestap, Kortan, Campbell, Sir Richar Dearlove, Steele, Simpson, Joseph Mifsud,

          Alexander Downer, Stefan “The Walrus” Halper, Azra Turk, Kerry, Hillary, Huma,

          Mills, Brennan, Gina Haspel, Clapper, Lerner, Farkas, Power, Lynch, Rice, Jarrett,

          Holder, Brazile, Sessions (patsy), Nadler, Schiff, Obama et al.

        2. “That’s What A John Durham Is All About!”
          __________________________________

          “Do The Hokey Pokey”

          – Larry LaPrise, ~1940

    2. breathless garbage from Foggy Bottom. saboteur, John Bolton co-conspirator to undermine the President.

      there is zero impropriety in asking a foreign government to investigate american activities which may be illegal in that country.
      this happens all the time.

      this is why i call it breathless garbage.

      until that pretense is dropped, this is all FAKE and a big pile of whining from career bureaucraps who have their feathers ruffled.

      before it’s all done, I hope they have their gooses plucked and not just feathers ruffled!

    3. That Taylor certainly knows how to bloviate with a meandering, long-winded, bombastic screed, but his presentation is ultimately full of “sound and fury signifying nothing.” Taylor presents nothing in his statement to support the bogus claim that the President withheld funds in connection with anything having to do with Biden’s actual Ukraine quid pro quo. But I’ll reserve judgment pending the Democratic Party’s star chamber testimony of key witnesses Pierre Delecto and Carlos Danger to see if they can corroborate the substance of Taylor’s allegations; namely, that Taylor was “alarmed” and “concerned” about the Ukraine negotiations.

    4. Taylor had an “odd feeling.” That certainly is grounds for a criminal conviction. But are there any other persons in the Trump family that Taylor also had “odd feelings” about? If so, they must be prosecuted and convicted as well. Pierre Delecto and Carlos Danger concur on this point.

  5. This information was clear from the State Dept texts made public about 2 weeks ago, but this nails it down and contradicts the BS no QPQ Sondland was selling. Is this the kind of behavior you want to be acceptable for future presidents? Trump gave Nancy no choice. Impeachment is no longer optional.

    “WASHINGTON — William B. Taylor Jr., the United States’ top diplomat in Ukraine, told impeachment investigators privately on Tuesday that President Trump held up vital security aid for the country and refused a White House meeting with Ukraine’s leader until he agreed to make a public pronouncement pledging to investigate Mr. Trump’s political rivals.

    In testimony that Democrats in attendance called the most damaging account yet for the president, Mr. Taylor provided an “excruciatingly detailed” opening statement that described in blunt and unsparing terms the quid-pro-quo pressure campaign that Mr. Trump and his allies have long denied.

    When he objected to that effort, Mr. Taylor said in his opening statement obtained by The New York Times, Gordon D. Sondland, the United States ambassador to the European Union and a Trump campaign donor, sought to explain Mr. Trump’s actions by noting that he was a businessman. Mr. Taylor recounted Mr. Sondland saying that, “when a businessman is about to sign a check to someone who owes him something, he said, the businessman asks that person to pay up before signing the check.”

    Mr. Taylor’s testimony directly contradicted repeated assertions by Mr. Trump and his Republican allies that there was never a quid pro quo involving investigations into Burisma, a Ukrainian gas company that employed Hunter Biden, the son of former Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr., and other Democrats.

    That is not true, Mr. Taylor told the committee. He said the president had explicitly made it clear that Mr. Zelensky would not be invited to the White House or secure much-needed security aid unless the Ukrainian leader made a public announcement that his country would start the investigations that Mr. Trump so badly wanted.

    Mr. Taylor testified that he was told of Mr. Trump’s demands for investigations during a telephone call with Mr. Sondland, who Mr. Taylor described as part of a “highly irregular” diplomatic effort aimed at pressuring Ukraine.

    “Ambassador Sondland said that ‘everything’ was dependent on such an announcement, including security assistance,” Mr. Taylor told lawmakers on Monday. “He said that President Trump wanted president Zelensky ‘in a public box’ by making a public statement about ordering such investigations.”….”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/22/us/trump-impeachment-ukraine.html

    1. Impeachment is no longer optional.

      Good. Then Pelosi and company will no doubt hold a floor vote. Then we can move this charade into the bright light and have everyone deposed.

      1. The case is so bad the Democrats are afraid of releasing the transcripts to Republicans and they are being kept under lock and key while the Democrats leak stuff that isn’t even true. Schiff has dishonored the House by lying, making up stories and not permitting the Republicans the same information access as given to Democrats. Democrats today are despotic and if given control we could very soon have in effect a dictatorship that pretends to be run in a democratic fashion.

    2. Anon1, you claims the following, as you state above: “Mr. Taylor told the committee. He said the president had explicitly made it clear that Mr. Zelensky would not be invited to the White House or secure much-needed security aid unless the Ukrainian leader made a public announcement that his country would start the investigations that Mr. Trump so badly wanted.” But where does Taylor say anything that establishes your characterization? What statement did Taylor make that establishes that “the president had explicitly made it clear that Mr. Zelensky would not be invited to the White House or secure much-needed security aid unless the Ukrainian leader made a public announcement that his country would start the investigations”? Can you cite anything specific? Or do you hold the same view that Pierre Delecto and Carlos Danger hold, i.e., “Our integrity is unquestionable and we don’t need any facts or evidence”?

        1. Everyone that has testified demonstrated that Trump did nothing wrong. The Republicans have baby sitters when they go near the transcripts so the only ones leaking are Democrats and they are leaking the answers to push questions and withholding the real answers that clear Trump and indict Democrats.

          The interviews are on tape. Will the Democrats next lose the tapes? Will they prevent the public from ever seeing the tapes? This is typical of a show trial in the Soviet Union only it will not work and hopefully it will cause a change in the public’s attitude that gets rid of all those involved in this farse.

          What did Taylor say in the portion of the transcript published? Nothing to prove Trump did anything wrong though he indicates a difference in policy. Policy decisions are made by Trump not him. Did he demonstrate he had first hand knowledge of what he would testify about? No. His statements are second hand or hearsay. That doesn’t provide proof of anything. Does Trump have the right to withhold funds? Yes. Was there suspicion of fraudulent activity? Absolutely.

          I am sure Taylor is a nice person but I didn’t vote for him to make policy.

          1. Nothing to prove Trump did anything wrong though he indicates a difference in policy.

            The Democrats can trot out 100 witnesses to testify and at the end of the day, all they will have accomplished is building a case over a disagreement in policy.

            I don’t care who the President is, if we are committing taxpayer dollars anywhere, I expect every effort is made to ensure those funds are not used to further corrupt purposes. And most significantly, our DOJ/FBI is duty-bound to investigate all allegations of corruption within our own political class to make sure the very people entrusted with the power and money we’ve given them are not feathering their own nests; especially if they are candidates for the highest office in the land.

            1. Olly, no matter what is done or said Democrats take the opposite opinion and state that Trump has committed an impeachable offense. They are asinine.

              Suddenly the crazies are thinking Bolton is a way of judging Trump despite them calling Bolton crazy for years. Fishwings comment: ” even he [Bolton] thought POTUS was out of control”.

              Rep Al Green (D) says “I’m concerned if we don’t impeach this president, he will get re-elected.”

              Yet they are not impeaching rather using a process to elicit testimony that proves Trump innocent but “guilty” of running the nation so well that he is going to be reelected. They withhold the complete transcripts only leaking portions that can inflame the ignorant but can’t prove a case that Trump did anything wrong.

              Next thing we know is that Democrats will accuse our servicemen that vote Republican of treason for carrying out the President’s foreign policy.

              1. no matter what is done or said Democrats take the opposite opinion and state that Trump has committed an impeachable offense.

                Well Trump committed an offense that the Democrats will never forgive; he was nominated and elected President. The nomination sparked efforts to lay an impeachment trap should he get elected. That torpedo has a return to sender stamped all over it; the Horrowitz/Durham reports will make sure of that.

                This impeachment inquiry is merely a continuation of the Democrat’s unending quest to nullify the 2016 election by any means possible. Democrats and their media allies have alleged President Trump has committed an impeachable offense so many times that it no longer has any meaning; at least to anyone familiar with that old timey notion that allegations require evidence.

                If the Democrats actually had any evidence at all to justify impeachment, their inquiry would be under bright lights and broadcast for all to see. There would be a full vote in the house with all the pomp and circumstance of a Hillary victory extravaganza. No, this is an impeachment in search of an offense; a political calculation that will blow up the Democratic party.

                1. “Well Trump committed an offense that the Democrats will never forgive; he was nominated and elected President.”

                  What really gets their goat is that he has done so well and has proven the rest of them incompetent. If he did a lousy job they wouldn’t mind as much for then they could have a plan of attack while looking smarter than they are.

                  “The median or average-income family has seen a gain of $5,003 since Trump came into office. Median family income is now (August 2019) $65,976, up from about $61,000 when he entered office (January 2017).

                  Under George W. Bush, the household income gains were a little over $400 in eight years, and under Barack Obama the gains were $1,043. That was in eight years for each. Under Trump, in less than three years, the extra income is about three times larger.”

                  1. What really gets their goat is that he has done so well and has proven the rest of them incompetent.

                    I believe losing the courts was and is the root of the Democrats fervor to unwind the 2016 election. Of course presidents will come and go, but to carry on with their progressive agenda, they needed to control the courts. If they can somehow impeach Trump, they will attempt to make a case the court nominations by Trump are in effect impeached. If he’s allowed to complete his term and he loses the election, his court nominations stand.

                    1. Yes, the courts are another indication of how well he is doing but too many Republicans are spineless and suck off the teet of big government along with the Democrats. There should be tremendous applause from honest legislators but there aren’t that many of them to make a loud sound. If Trump continues in this direction and wins a lot of them we be gone in the 2024 election.

        2. Anon1 – was there a particular part of Am Taylor’s statement you wanted us to pay attention to? Or, were you too lazy to summarize the statement for us?

          1. Paul, I read the statement. It said nothing. Anon has a library card so he points to his proof and says it is in the library. If one looks one finds that Anon lies.

  6. LAME ARGUMENT ON THIS THREAD:

    KURDS WERE SUPPORTED BY ‘MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX’

    Before Trump’s rash decision, the U.S., assisted by Kurdish Allies, was controlling one third of Syria with only 1,500 troops. From a cost analysis perspective, that was about the best deal the U.S. ever got in terms of peace-keeping missions.

    And now Trump defenders claim that the U.S. could not possibly maintain this arrangement against assembled Turkish forces. So the argument goes that Trump was just being realistic when he gave Erdogen the green-light to invade. The argument then continues that only war-mongering congressmen beholden to Defense Contractors are criticizing Trump’s decision. But these arguments are absolute nonsense!

    When Erdogen called Trump to say the time had come for Turkey to invade Syria, Trump could have easily said, “Let’s call a NATO conference to discuss the issue”. Or, “Let’s take this to the U.N.”.

    Then, as soon Trump got off the phone with Erdogen, he could have called an emergency meeting of the Joint Chiefs Of Staff to get their input on the matter. State Department professionals should have been included in discussions.

    But Trump neglected to consult the most logical experts. Instead Trump just tweeted his decision while soliciting no input whatsoever from the men and women who really knew what was happening in Syria.

    So now Trump defenders make this specious claim that Trump is really a main of peace while defenders of the Kurds are actually war-mongers beholden to The Pentagon. In a normal America this argument would be dismissed as insane. But in Trump’s America the insane is now routine.

    1. James, Trump has no clue and doesn’t care. Those pretending he’s playing 3d chess is a gut busting laugher. He’s playing 3d Hopscotch. He doesn’t know what he’s doing and is too stupid to know that and too selfish to care.

    2. Defence Contractors, NATO, UN, Joint Chiefs of Staffs, State Dept Professionals, CIA, FBI, DOJ, Senate/House Committees, etc…,

      How many of those people are on the side of the USA & that Constitutional Oath they swore.

      An Oath by an American Hating liar is no oath at all.

      It’s disgusting to see/know some of just how bad/ignorant are.

      1. Olly, several of those organizations you name have members that risk their lives and others sacrifice more profitable private professional lives out of dedication to our country. You have chosen to worship a man who is a lying braggart with nor regard for anyone but himself, and certainly not his country. It’s pretty obvious there is something wrong with you ability to detect worthy and forthright humans and to tell the difference between a lie and the truth.

        Seek help.

        1. It’s pretty obvious there is something wrong with you ability to detect worthy and forthright humans and to tell the difference between a lie and the truth.

          Seek help.

          LOL! Seek help indeed. Like some reading comprehension classes. I’m not Oky1.

    3. “let’s take this to the UN?”

      do you think any self respecting major regional power is going to take border issues to the freakin UN? No way!

      and anyhow the UN is considered an international body. the “Kurds” are not a nation state. period.

      Many other nations, none the least of which have been Russia and Israel, have made loud and clear to the world that a strong nation doesn’t ask blue helmets for help when its own green helmets can get the job done

      This is all cockamamie nonsense from our old interlocutor buddy now named James

        1. i was talking about erdogan obviously, why would he bother with the UN. that makes no sense. but a lot of what you’re saying about this makes no sense. have fun not making sense.

      1. “And by the way, it was 1,500 men, not 28 men.” _Francis Clerke earlier page
        ” one third of Syria with only 1,500 troops.” James Wilkinson

        Kurtz, The complete comments with both had the typical nonsense we see from Peter Hill, Shill, Gates, PH and others along with these two. It demonstrates how these lefties can’t stand the heat and can’t defend an argument because they don’t know what they are talking about. That is why all of these are the person we have learned has no self respect.

        1. basically they cast out there talking points, then troll a little in follow up, and when you got em they just clam up.

          this is how most reporters operate, who are fake journalists actually just pushing an editorial narrative for their bosses and their own narrow interests, in all their “politics” reporting.

          1. Kurtz, I guess NBC is part of the MSM but when we look at what happened there based on Farrow’s reporting we recognize that NBC News is fake. Same can be said of CNN based on audio’s and vidio’s of CNN. Everyone has read the proven lies in the NYTimes and Washington Post that have both relied on phony anonymous sources. That leaves ABC and a few other MSM outlets that haven’t been proven absolute liars.

    4. Will Pierre Delecto also show up using the big capitalized headlines?
      I thought that there was usually only one person here who liked to do that.

      1. Pierre is a masculine given name. It is a French form of the name Peter (it can also be a surname and a place name). Pierre originally meant “rock” or “stone” in French (derived from the Greek word “petra” meaning “stone, rock”, via Latin “petra”). See also Peter.
        Meaning: “Stone”
        Pronunciation: French
        See also: Peter, Pedro, Boutros

  7. Back when we had the military draft there was more insight into the world. Now days a marine from Georgia has a daddy who was a marine and he don’t mind taking risks in Afghanistan. But back in the days of the draft some people opposed having themselves killed or their kids drafted and killed in Nam.
    There was a song which I recall was written and sung by Country Joe and The Fish.

    Well its one, two three… what are we fighting for?
    Don’t ask me I don’t give a damn…
    Next stop is Viet Nam!

    And its five, six, seven …open up the Pearly Gates!
    Ain’t no time to wonder why….
    Whoopee: we’re all gonna die!

  8. Why the surprise? Trump said early on that he wanted to stamp on ISIS and then get out.

    If the warmongers in Congress want American troops facing off against Turkey then they should declare war. Only they have the legal authority to do it.

    1. Young, it was Trump facing off against Erdogen and we lost. This despot pushed the most powerful man in the world over. took what he wanted, and gave nothing. We have that huge military establishment so we don’t have to use it.

      INSTEAD, THE STABLE GENIUS GOT TALKED INTO BUYING THE UNDERCOATING.

  9. Can Russia afford a new “empire” as vast as the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics?

    Let them bite off more than they can chew while America bides its time and enhances its treasure and quiver.

    Sell Russia prodigious lengths of rope.
    ___________________________________________________________________________

    “The Capitalists will sell us the rope with which we will hang them.”

    ― Vladimir Ilich Lenin

  10. Members of Congress put their political necks on the line worse than they thought with this condemnation vote.

    All president Trump needed to do afterward was declare that the vote serves as proof that there is “no war or military conflict that Congress doesn’t like” and he would probably get agreement from even his opponents among ordinary Americans.

    He should play the military-industrial complex angle like President Eisenhower did.

  11. Isn’t NATO a defensive alliance? We should not support attackers. We should eject them. Though, forest fires which coincide with anyone disagreeing with holy president Erdogan might be a sign.

  12. Contrary to the false proposition put forth in this article, the facts amply demonstrate that the 354-60 vote by Republicans and Democrats to condemn the President’s action in Syria was driven solely by their campaign funding from the defense industry. Here’s a relatively recent list of the top 20 House recipients of funding from defense lobbyists, which you can compare to list of “yes” voters. Wild coincidence? I think not.

    Top 20 Members of the House
    Rank Candidate Amount
    1 Granger, Kay (R-TX) $353,740
    2 Thornberry, Mac (R-TX) $321,366
    3 McSally, Martha (R-AZ) $279,381
    4 Wittman, Rob (R-VA) $273,859
    5 Smith, Adam (D-WA) $271,250
    6 Rogers, Mike D (R-AL) $257,675
    7 Visclosky, Pete (D-IN) $249,183
    8 Roby, Martha (R-AL) $224,200
    9 Turner, Michael R (R-OH)$199,050
    10 Aderholt, Robert B (R-AL)$191,058
    11 Ruppersberger, Dutch (D-MD)$189,475
    12 Byrne, Bradley (R-AL) $187,600
    13 Scalise, Steve (R-LA) $170,825
    14 Knight, Steve (R-CA) $169,050
    15 Diaz-Balart, Mario (R-FL)$168,450
    16 Frelinghuysen, Rodney (R-NJ)$166,400
    17 Wilson, Joe (R-SC) $158,350
    18 Taylor, Scott (R-VA) $157,160
    19 Banks, Jim (R-IN) $152,200
    20 Carter, John (R-TX) $149,700

  13. Looks like a huge win to me by Trump, but the War Pigs/MIC they’re going to be pissed.

    The Greek, because of the CIA/etc., they went Commie decades back & they’ve been broke for at least 20 years paying for all their endless Free Socialist BS.

  14. We have been discussing the disastrous decision of President Donald Trump to withdraw U.S. forces from the Turkish border with virtually no warning to his own agencies and allies.

    So all of a sudden, no one in the IC is monitoring the activities of the president? Bullsh*t!

    Both Republicans and Democrats joined this week in condemning the President’s actions in a 354-60 vote.

    Oh how those brave men and women in congress stop at nothing to exercise a political vote, but will cowardly shield their political record from a vote to declare war.

  15. Professor Turley counterintuitively promotes adversity and war among nations. What the heck is going on in America? All the ex-hippie, bleeding-heart liberal, communist dissident activists are pro-war – pro-endless war!
    ____

    “That dudn’t make any sense.”

    – George W. Bush
    _______________

    War? We don’t need no stinking war!

    The inmates have taken over the asylum. The entire communist American welfare state is unconstitutional. America is in a state of hysteria, incoherence, chaos, anarchy and rebellion. Nature abhors a vacuum and the communist Deep Deep State has filled the Grand Canyon sized political vacuum in America.

    “Crazy Abe” Lincoln won 1860 by 38.9% and 1864 by brute military force. “Crazy Abe” seized power, neutralized the legislative and judicial branches and ruled by executive order and proclamation to “Save the Union.”

    President Donald J. Trump must now seize power, neutralize the legislative and judicial branches and rule by executive order and proclamation to “Save the Republic.”

  16. “Once again, the issue is not the underlying policy of getting out of Syria, but how the decision was made.”

    I couldn’t have spouted off neoconservative and liberal interventionist talking points any better myself Turley

    You’re quote contains the last bastion for these two groups of ideologues when they have nothing else left. First, we can’t leave once we’ve gone in until the Middle East is stable. In other words they want to be there for a few centuries and possibly another 3,000 years after that. When that doesn’t work they use the talking point you just used: It’s being done at the wrong time or in the wrong way.

    Of course, it will always be the wrong time or the wrong way with these two groups of ideologues. 50 years from now, 100 years from now will be the wrong time, and they’ll say it’s being done incorrectly. So that is another way for us to be there indefinitely as well.

    1. well said steve. what trump has done here is one of the best choices he’s made. and no good deed of his goes unpunished!

      Moreover, famously, every side in the middle east always claims God is on their side. So:

      Let God sort them out.

    2. Excellent post Steve!

      First, we can’t leave once we’ve gone in until the Middle East is stable.

      Who or what loses with stability in the Middle East? Put another way, who or what wins with instability in the Middle East? The MIC and the banks that fund them.

      https://youtu.be/2B_SxGmSJP0

    3. We’re still there Steve. Moved to Iraq, but this time without the cover of the Kurds. This was no strategic retreat, this was “what the hell, my dinner is ready. I’m gettin’ off the phone.”

  17. After Philip II of Macedon had whipped most key Greek city-states in submission, he sent a message to Sparta; If I win this war, you will be slaves forever.”

    The laconic reply:

    “IF”

    He ignored Sparta after that.

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