“A Single-Handed Symbol Of White Supremacy”: Wisconsin Students Demand Removal Of Statue Of Abraham Lincoln

images220px-Abraham_LincolnWe have been discussing the wanton destruction of public memorial and statues across the country, including baffling attacks on abolitionists and those who fought against slavery.  One of the most incongruous targets has been Abraham Lincoln in various cities.  Now, students at the University of Wisconsin, including the Black Student Union and the Student Inclusion Coalition, have demanded the removal of Lincoln’s statue as ‘a single-handed symbol of white supremacy.” The signer of the Emancipation Proclamation, the vocal advocate for the 13th Amendment, and the man assassinated for his war against the South and slavery.  Saying that Lincoln is the “symbol of white supremacy” has about as much foundation as saying Harvey Milk is the symbol of militant heterosexuality.  Both were great leaders who were killed at the height of campaigns for equality.  As I discuss below, there are aspects of Lincoln’s legacy that are worthy of condemnation but even John Wilkes Booth would dispute the claim of Lincoln as the embodiment of white supremacy.

Wisconsin has been much in the news lately with scenes of the destruction of statues including that of Civil War abolitionist Hans Christian Heg and another of a female figure representing the state’s “Forward” motto.  When Democratic  Sen. Tim Carpenter took a picture of the protesters, he was attacked and required surgery for his injuries.

State Sen. Tim Carpenter posted a video showing demonstrators rushing toward him during Tuesday night's demonstrations. (Screenshot via Twitter)
State Sen. Tim Carpenter posted a video showing demonstrators rushing toward him during Tuesday night’s demonstrations. (Screenshot via Twitter)(Screenshot via Twitter)

Administrators and faculty have been largely silent in the face of the destruction of statues including the toppling of George Washington’s bust on our own campus at George Washington University.  There is a palpable sense of fear that objections to such destruction will bring accusations of racism or campaigns to remove faculty.  We have already seen journalists and academics face such campaigns.

To the credit of these students, they are seeking such changes through dialogue and mutual agreement with the university.  Indeed, the effort allows for a discussion of not just the great deeds but the great wrongs revealed in such historical legacies.  These students did the right thing in raising their objections to Lincoln and starting a discussion on their campus as to whether he is the worthy figure for such a prominent place of honor.  After all, Lincoln made clear at the start of the war that he was more concerned with preserving the union than freeing the slaves.  There are legitimate issues to be raised about such comments as well as an array of controversial decisions.

The students want the prominent statue on Bascom Hill removed.

Students point out that Lincoln ordered the execution of 38 Dakota men and signed the Homestead Act, which gave settlers land forcibly taken from Native Americans.

Black Student Union president Nalah McWhorter declared “For him to be at the top of Bascom [Hill] as a powerful placement on our campus, it’s a single-handed symbol of white supremacy.”

1904paintingAttackNewUlmAntonGagThe Dakota executions have long been controversial.  The Sioux or Dakota uprising occurred not long after Minnesota became a state and involved the death of hundreds of settlers.  The Army crushed the Sioux and captured hundreds.  A military tribunal sentenced 303 to death for alleged crimes against civilians and other crimes.  The trial itself was a farce with no real representation or reliable evidence.  Lincoln reviewed the transcripts of the 303 and told the Senate:

“Anxious to not act with so much clemency as to encourage another outbreak on one hand, nor with so much severity as to be real cruelty on the other, I ordered a careful examination of the records of the trials to be made, in view of first ordering the execution of such as had been proved guilty of violating females.”

However, only two men were found guilty of rape and Lincoln later expanded the criteria to include those who participated in “massacres” of civilians as opposed to battles with the Army.

Lincoln however commuted the sentence of 264 of the 303 convicted.

This is not the first time Lincoln has faced the ire of some in Wisconsin. When Lincoln called the nation to war against the South, many in Wisconsin did not support the cause and rioted against Lincoln.  Ultimately, however, Wisconsin sent multiple regiments who fought valiantly in the War and sacrificed much to defeat both the South and slavery.

Having a statue to a leader like Lincoln is not an endorsement of his entire legacy. I have heavily criticized Lincoln for the unconstitutional suspension of habeas corpus and the loss of free speech rights as well as other decisions.  We learn from such public memorials, which can be augmented with a more full historical context and criticism.  However, to say that Lincoln is a symbol of white supremacy ignores his pivotal role in fighting slavery, a cause for which he would ultimately give his own life.

193 thoughts on ““A Single-Handed Symbol Of White Supremacy”: Wisconsin Students Demand Removal Of Statue Of Abraham Lincoln”

  1. Prof. Turley, these demands to remove Lincoln’s statute are only baffling if you blind yourself to their true agenda: removal of all symbols of the American strength and sovereignty, so that America may eventually be integrated into a One World Government. It’s just that those gun-clutching hillbillies think of themselves as independent Americans and won’t kneel before a foreign master. The goal is to chip away at American Identity until they will accept unification under a Central World Government.

  2. Who gave the leaders of this BLM movement the right to decide what my history will be? If blacks are 13% of the population what percentage would BLM members be? And yet, they and their sympathizers demand that if they claim that their feelings are hurt, the rest of us cannot look at statues that tell our history.

    Personally, I am deeply offended by the incredibly racist conduct of BLM and its supporters. White people don’t have to look back hundreds of years to find something to hurt our feelings. All we need to do is look at many of our universities. Racism is the only explanation for segregated black dormitories, black student unions, and black graduation ceremonies. The blacks who demanded and got this special treatment are racists and want nothing to do with whites and Hispanics and Asians and Native Americans. They have no desire to assimilate into an American society that has laws and rules they are expected to obey. They spit on this society that so many lived and died to create and from which they reap enormous benefits. They demand that all other blacks follow them and should any refuse, they are cancelled. These leaders deserve to live in a society where attempts to destroy it are met with real bullets instead of praise from pandering democrats who are afraid of their own shadows.

    These black leaders need to understand that if this horrific behavior continues and our state and local governments continue to allow it, law abiding citizens will rise up and take matters into their own hands. It’s too bad BLM and its fellow travelers apparently never bothered to read actual history instead of their made up version. If they had, they would know that’s where we are headed.

    1. HLM:

      I am seeing the rise of armed militias around here. I suspect they agree this is coming to a head. When BLM/ANTIFA ventures into the suburbs and the exurbs the going won’t be as smooth or as cool. Cops are fine but citizens unrestrained by political correctness based department rules are better. Here’s hoping for a united response and good aim. Just got a case of ammo as a precaution.

      1. mespo– Texas history is filled with examples of what ordinary, church going, law abiding citizens do when outlaws are allowed to roam free. In the late 1800s, many more whites than blacks were lynched in Texas because that is how ordinary citizens responded to killers and cattle and horse thieves when the sheriff was a long ways away. I suspect the same was true in your neck of the woods.

        1. You pretend revolutionaries should STFU. You have too much to lose, are too old, and probably too fat to do anything and you know it. Your condition in life is privileged to the extreme and you know that too. Your abandonment of representative government, even though you are over represented in all three branches of the federal government , shows you aren’t true Americans either. Middle class white people aren’t being targeted by anyone – dollars to donuts most of the protesters are middle class whites, not Black Panthers and no principles are at risk except maintaining homage to a disgraceful national past. Can you be upset about which statues are being attacked? Sure. Black citizens have lived with humiliating ones in their town squares for generations. How does it feel?

          Suck it up.

          1. “Black citizens have lived with humiliating ones in their town squares for generations.”

            Are you telling us black people are the only people to have ever suffered?

            1. Just thinking. What if you are black and you live in the inner city. You are watching a mob of people loot and burn buildings in your neighborhood. A significant number of these people are young white kids probably from the suburbs. If I were black I know how I would feel.

              1. I agree with your thoughts and I am looking forward to Trump increasing the % of black votes he gets.

          2. “You pretend revolutionaries should STFU”

            Funny, I thought you were referring to BLM. That being said, it’s always amazing how you and your crowd resort to personal attacks and stereotypes to address the problems of what you think stereotypes have created.

            In the old country, we call that a double standard.

          3. btb:

            “You pretend revolutionaries should STFU. You have too much to lose, are too old, and probably too fat to do anything and you know it. Your condition in life is privileged to the extreme and you know that too.”
            That’s where you’re wrong. I’ve got nothing to lose and my “privilege” is your myth. Come on by one evening if you’re able. I’ll show you how old and fat feel work against the hide of some radical trash. HLM and I are men and happy to oblige you, Alice, if you care to test. Just be whatever semblance of a man you’ve got left and give us a few minutes notice. And remember this scene from Open Range explaining men – a topic which you obviously don’t know anything about. Suck on this you sniveling coward:

              1. Cindy:
                It’s my favorite clip from the movie and my favorite line: “you’re men ain’t ya.” Some men forget that. They remembered by the end of the film.

                1. mespo– I just read your comment. Thank you for including me. It would be an honor to join you in explaining to anyone who cares or needs to listen what common decency means.

                  As an aside, I have a close friend who is a Texas Ranger. I told him that years ago if somebody fought or gave us a hard time, we would put a few extra clicks on the handcuffs and by the time we got to the station they were very compliant. I asked if he ever did that as Ranger. He thought for a long time and said that he didn’t think he had ever handcuffed anyone. And I quote: “If he tried to fight or run that was his bad decision.” That is why if there’s one riot, you call one Ranger. We’d best buy some smelling salts for some of those who post on this blog.

                  1. HLM:
                    I’ve got a few friends I call my “Back Against The Wall Club.” Mostly family and some men I’ve known and trusted since childhood. That’s the group you know to a moral certainty would defend you and you them when things got sticky — very sticky. I don’t know you well but I sense from your comments that you understand the kind of loyalty that turns men into brothers willing to put a lot on the line for the other guy. It’s one of the things I like about masculinity and you.

                    1. Mespo– my spouse and I consider loyalty one of the highest human values and we have tried to live our lives in a way that shows it. Even though it is such a high value, it also is the first to go because most people, sadly, readily trade it for security or acceptance. We look forward to the time when we can be considered for membership in the club. Would we be pledges? Is there a hell week?

            1. Mespo going all balls dog with the status mongering. He thinks he’s the Costner and Duvall characters.

              Fish in a barrel.

                1. Hey, I come from a long line of submariners and naval underwater warfare folks. It’s home turf.

      2. We cant find any AR-15 rifles to buy anywhere including Bass Pro, Cabelas, Dicks Sporting Goods and popular online gun brokers. Local gun shops have zero inventory

        Clearly a good sign



    2. The word “racism” has become meaningless in our present day culture. The word has been misused and taken over by a Marxist-Anarchist group that temporarily captures a lot of our children that haven’t had appropriate parental guidance and have been brainwashed in the publici schools.

      In the real sense of the word ‘racism’, today, there is a tremendous amount of racism against innocent melanin deficient persons. This racism has little to do with one’s character and seemingly only something to do with the lack of color of their skin. One only has to wonder about the lack of intelligence of those people that support such hate.

  3. “The Dakota executions have long been controversial. The Sioux or Dakota uprising occurred not long after Minnesota became a state and involved the death of hundreds of settlers.”
    Not really. Here’s the account from the NYT. Noble savages indeed:

    ST. PAUL, Minn., Saturday, Aug. 23.

    Parties from the Minnesota River reached here last sight. They state that scouts estimate the number of whites already killed by the Sioux at 500.

    This opinion is based on the number of bodies discovered strewn along the road and by trails of blood.

    It is believed that all the missionaries have been killed.

    The civilized Indians exceeded their savage brethren in atrocities.

    Mr. FRENIER, an interpreter who has spent most of his life among the Indians, volunteered to go alone among them, trusting to his knowledge of them and his disguise, to escape detection. He dressed himself to Indian costume and started on his journey. He arrived at the Upper Agency at night.

    The place was literally the habitation of death.

    He visited all the houses, and found their former occupants all lying dead, some on the door-steps and some inside their habitations. Others were scattered in the yards and in the roads.

    He went to the house of Hon. J.R. BROWN, and recognized every member of the family. They numbered eighteen in all, and every one of them had been brutally murdered.

    At Beaver Creek he found that fifty families had been killed outright. At every house he went into he recognized the dead bodies of nearly all the former inhabitants of the place.

    Among the dead bodies he recognized at the Agency were the following:

    N. GOVERUS and family.

    Dr. WAKEFIELD and family.

    JOHN TODDENS and family.



    Rev. Dr. WILLIAMS.

    Rev. Mr. BRIGGS, and two missionaries.

    Ex-Gov. SIBLEY is now marching to the relief of Fort Ridgley.

    He reports that the Sioux bands are united together to carry out a concentrated and desperate scheme, and says that he will be only too happy to find that the powerful upper bands of Yanktons and other tribes have not united with them.

    Mr. FRENIER writes to Gov. RAMSEY, on the 21st inst., saying that he left Fort Ridgley at 2 o’clock on that morning. There were then over two thousand Indians at the fort, and all the wooden buildings there had been set on fire, and were burning.

    Mr. FRENIER thinks that other tribes are joining the Sloux, and that they will present a very formidable array.

    A reliable letter, dated Glencoe, 21st inst., says that the injury done by the stampede of the settlers is immense, and that such another scene of woe can hardly be found in the South as in McLeod, Meaker, and the northern part of Sibley and other counties to Minnesota.

    In St. Paul and the adjoining country all the available horses are being gathered together, and all sorts of weapons will be used by willing hands for immediate and summary vengeance upon these blood-thirsty Indians.

    CHICAGO, Saturday, Aug. 23.

    The St. Paul (Minn.) Pioneer, of the 20th inst., says, it is thought that the Indians have been induced to commit these outrages by Indians from Missouri and secession traitors of that State, and that when Maj. GALBRAITH left the agency on Friday everything was quiet. The Indians had received their goods and had all disappeared apparently satisfied with the Major’s promise to send for them as soon as the money arrived to pay them their annuities.

    The first attack of the Indians was made on the house of Mr. BAKER, on Sunday last, near the town of Acton, and 30 miles from Forest City, in which three white men and one woman were killed.

    On Monday morning an attack was made on Redwood, and at the time the messenger left there, a number of persons had been killed.

    After the messenger had crossed the river, he saw the Indians firing into traders’ stores and other buildings. He estimated the number of Indians engaged in this firing at 150. He also stated that messengers had arrived at Fort Ridgley with money to pay off the Indians the sums due them.

    The St. Paul Press, of the 21st instant, says that several loads of panic-stricken people, from Currer and Sibley Counties, arrived in town last night, principally women and children. They were greatly excited, and give exaggerated accounts of the Indians, who were marching on Shasta County. They also say that the towns of St. Peter, Henderson and Glencoe have been burned.

    A private letter received in this city, to-day, from St. Paul, dated the 20th instant, says, that it seems to be the general opinion among the best informed of our citizens that these Indian troubles originated with the cursed Secessionists of Missouri.

    Major GALBRAITH was told by one of the Indians that there are now in arms ten thousand of the Sioux tribe, besides other tribes from Northern Missouri.

    ST. PAUL, Minn., Saturday, Aug. 23 — 9 P.M.

    ANTOINE FRENIER, the disguised Indian scout, got through the Indian lines into Fort Ridgeley and brought back the following to Gov. RAMSEY:

    FORT RIDGELEY, Thursday, Aug. 21 — 2 P.M.

    We can hold this position but little longer unless we are reinforced. We are being attacked almost every hour, and unless assistance is rendered us we cannot hold out much longer. Our little band is becoming exhausted and decimated. We had hoped to be reinforced to-day, but as yet can hear of no one coming.

    T.G. SHEHAN, of Company C, Fifth Minnesota Volunteers, commands the post.

    Gov. SIBLEY cannot reach here with his twelve hundred troops until to-morrow, when a day of reckoning for the Indians will be at hand.

    1. Mespo, interesting.

      I always thought if I got back into that type research I’d start again by going through the BIA’s records from the local Indian agent’s reports of an area to BIA hq.

      Those records were some of the best.

      I’m not sure how many of those records were destroyed by GW Bush/Dick Cheney on the 1st days they came into office as a pay off for Kock Bro’s support.

      Among the records destroyed were the one’s showing the accounting numbers of Oil/Gas royalties & how much of those royalties were stolen by the the Kochs by short the Osage & other royalties holders.

  4. At this point all we have to do is stop taking the children seriously, start treating them as such, and say, ‘No.’. Their parents never will. It isn’t too late, but if adult people won’t stop behaving like cowards, it will be eventually. Their mentality and ‘demands’ are ludicrous in the extreme to any thinking person.

    1. I doubt when any of you pass someone will say you lived the perfect life! However will they say you made a difference should really be your question, because only God is perfect. You cannot look at yesterday with today’s glasses and see clearly

      1. When it comes to King David it’s said David was a man after God’s own heart.

        And that we are all made in the image of God.

        So I assume like David, God loves beautiful women, as do I.

        The part I don’t understand is why God used all that wrinkle skin on Males/Females junk????

        LOL:) Maybe somethings are better not known?

  5. Meanwhile:

    “REPUBLICAN lawmakers…confirmed that US intel agencies have developed information about a Russian military operation targeting US and allied forces”

    “the intel assessment apparently was included in his written daily intelligence briefing, REPUBLICAN lawmakers said”

    1. curious how you spend your last few years alive trolling with copy/paste cherry picked quotes as opposed to walking your talk. Feed your local hungry folks, clothe the naked, care for the sick, adopt the orphan, provide for the widow, etc

      Your existence on these forums is indicative of why America is broken: shun your neighbors in need but virtue signal on the internet

      talk about privileged

    2. There was no actionable intelligence of Russians paying for Americans to be killed in Afghanistan. However there is full knowledge of Obama paying where that money was used to kill Americans and American soldiers. There is also BTB (Anon) anti-Trump claims that Trump had no right to kill Soleimani who was killing American soldiers. BTB= hypocricy.

      Further explanation at: https://jonathanturley.org/2020/07/01/a-single-handed-symbol-of-white-supremacy-wisconsin-students-demand-removal-of-statue-of-abraham-lincoln/comment-page-2/#comment-1973305

        1. “Straight incoherence from Allan ”

          This type of repetitive remark demonstrates a very stupid person that is unaware of what happens around him.

          Take note how the stupid can’t rebut the fact that Trump’s killing of Soleimani was a good thing. Soleimani was responsible for over 600 American deaths. That 600+ number wasn’t good enough for Hellvis because it gets in the way of his anti-American spiel.
          Hellvis loved the $170 Billion payoff to Iran while Iran was having American soldiers killed. That money helped to kill a lot more. Should one call Obama a traitor?

          Hellvis calls facts incoherent. What does that make Hellvis? Not very bright for sure.

          1. I don’t call facts incoherent. Just you.

            Interesting to note I’ve never actually said any of the things you’ve just attrubuted to me. Just another mark in Allan’s lying and disingenuous column.

            You’re on the spectrum aren’t you, Allan?

            1. “I’ve never actually said any of the things you’ve just attrubuted to me.”

              It’s possible because you never say much of anything. What you say is almost always empty rhetoric so I will believe you. But then we get to the problem of aliases. This isn’t your first so one cannot assess your response.

      1. For the record – not mindless twit Allan – I never said Trump had no right to kill Soleimani. Bad decision tactically, yes.

        1. Why was it bad to respond to Iranian killing of Americans by Killing Soleimani? Soleimani was training people in multiple countries incuding South America. Not only did he train them to use IED’s against Americans but was responsible for more than 600 American soldier deaths while waging a broadening war on the US to kill even more Americans and train even more people to do that job?

          One has to be a fool to advocate something significant against Russia when no one knows for sure that the Russians were involved. We actually did the same to them. The Afghani’s want to kill Americans without such Russian payments. Trump wants to withdraw from Afghanistan and this complicates that desire.

          I wonder who would want to upset the ability of the US from withdrawing from Afghanistan. Could it be the Democrat Party and leaders who don’t want Trump to be successful and would rather see more Americans die? Could it be the companies that produce military weapons? Could it be some of the Generals that are outspoken against Trump because Trump believes military adventurism should end and we should use economic power instead. That leaves the Generals out of the room when a lot of tactical decisions are being made that require trade negotiators and economists instead of Generals. That has probably upset a lot of people in the intelligence community and might even have made some of them do stupid things.

          1. Tactically it pissed of the Iraqis and came close to getting us thrown out.

            No one has advocated assassinating Putin over the bounties, or any particular act of physical aggression against Russian interests. Start with calling Putin on it, maybe implement sanctions, but definitely do not agree with him against your own intelligence agencies, lobby to get him in the G7, and then withdraw troops from Germany in the aftermath of finding out.

            1. “Tactically it pissed of the Iraqis and came close to getting us thrown out.”

              That is an excuse like my dog ate my homework. We are still in Iraq, but I remember Obama making the situation worse.

              “Start with calling Putin on it, maybe implement sanctions”

              Pretty dumb reasoning. With unconfirmed information you would increase sanctions. I wonder what we do with confirmed intelligence of the same order. AS far as your other concerns we already know that you can’t walk and chew gum at the same time.

              One doesn’t act against another superpower if one doesn’t have the facts. The NYTimes diminished a bit of soft power the US has for one reason only, TDS.

              1. “That is an excuse like my dog ate my homework. We are still in Iraq, but I remember Obama making the situation worse”

                Read : Allan watched a report on something involving Obama and Iraq on Fox news and it made him smile and drool a little bit.

                1. When you excuse yourself for absent home work repeating your mantra, ‘the dog at it’ I can see the distressed look on the third grade teacher’s face when she notes you are alredy shaving

                  1. I’ve said it before, Allan…, when you’re *trying* to insult someone’s intelligence it’s really, really important to not spell words incorrectly like a complete moron.

                    Or not. I suppose you’re making a point either way, just not the one you’d like to make.

                    Your choice.

            2. It would be like the stupidest move in the world for the US to try and whack Putin. It would plunge the country into chaos and likely the only beneficiary would be the Chinese Communist behemoth on the Russian border.

              It is probably not even feasible. It would be insanity. Russia is not Iran. Sulemani was a combattant and arguably a terrorist. Putin is neither.

              There already are heavy sanctions on Russia. Show me the sanctions that aren’t happening already. The sanctions schtick is powerful but already in use.

              NSA did not agree with the interpretation of the coerced confessions which are patently implausible. This is another CIA hoax.

              The CIA is a trouble-making outfit that has cooked up more lies and mischief than any other American agency by far. It is also too big for its britches.
              But we can see where it will get a President to defy them. See where it got JFK . Oh wait ,CIA tells us that is a “conspiracy theory” CIA lied to the Warren Commission and lied to the HSSA too. And yet we are to believe them. Duh, most Americans are not so credulous and do not. Who believes CIA? CIA is pretty much just there to provide excuses for whatever the war-mongers planned on doing anyhow.

              but Trump is no JFK. or he would have fired Gina Haskell who approved and oversaw Guantanamo torture program and covered it up, instead of promoting her.

              Is there any doubt that the “Afghan prisoners” who supplied this bogus “bounties” story were NOT coerced ie tortured, to get it?

              Oh well that’s classified so we wont know


              CIA IS A ROGUE AGENCY


              DISMANTLE THE CIA. Their “Humint” is neither humane nor intelligent. it’s a constant stream of propaganda justifying predetermined strategic alternatives developed from above. It is not intelligence which helps define the mission, it is just propaganda which provides excuses for the predefined mission in the first place.

              There are many good people in the intelligence community who have said precisely this, for a long time now. It is probably the most irresponsible American agency in the postwar period and thank God some Democrats back in the Church committee days were intent on exposing some of its errors and misdeeds. By contrast, today’s Democrats are total pawns of its lies.

              1. UH, no one suggested whacking Putin Kurtz, but thanks for stating why. Otherwise your screed is bunk.

                1. you said above already that nobody suggested it. so why did you say so if nobody suggested it? were you just staking out a straw man?

                  oh of course, you do that a lot

  6. I agree with Jack. This is a repeat of the Cultural Revolution and we need to stop it dead in its tracks or we all will be marching with little Red Books in our hands

    1. PCS, while I completely agree that we need to stop this cultural revolution in its tracks, how, in your opinion, can this be done? IMO, most of the ‘system’ has been tilted in favor of this kind of overthrow of the US. Way too much pol correctness(PC) began the tilt, to what I see today.. We asked for it and now the seeds have sprouted. So now what?

      1. delmaracer – we have to keep speaking out against it. Now I am not young and sprite so I can go out and stand in front of a statue to save it. However, I do have a phone and a computer and I can call and email people and let them know they should be doing it.

        And I would not agree that we asked for it. The Marxists have been slowly working on it and they have done their job well. We just have to keep fighting back.

        1. PCS – I rather doubt you’ve ever been “sprite.” Spry perhaps, but a soft drink? Not likely. On the other hand, the dictionary defines “sprite” as a noun meaning “elf or fairy,” 🧚🏿‍♂️

          1. TIN – are you assuming my whatever? How do you know I am not a sprite? Besides, I am Irish, you have no idea what I could have seen on a bender. 😉 Thanks for catching by misspelling. That one is funny. 🙂

            1. Paul – As an Irishman, are you going to demand that General Mills remove the leprechaun from the box of Lucky Charms cereal? Do you believe that is a symbol of Protestant systemic oppression of the Irish? Does it harm your self-esteem or make you feel marginalized? Just curious.

              1. TIN – I am more offended by The Fighting Irish” of Notre Dame. That is a stereotype. However, it is true. 😉 And, btw, leprechauns (or little people) exist. 😉 General Mills is helping the Irish take over the world.

                1. Paul C– If it weren’t for Irish Catholic priests in the Philippines, I might never have been introduced to San Miguel beer, surely the finest beer in the world. And, I personally can vouch for the fact that if you drink a sufficient quantity, you will see leprechauns.

                  1. After a month at sea to get to Subic Bay, that first ice cold San Miguel beer was the best. We’d put a case on ice, grab a sailboat and head over to Grande Island or Gaine’s Beach. Good times!

                    1. Olly– I spent 2-1/2 years in Peace Corps on Panay Island living in a barrio outside Iloilo. My job was to grow demonstration crops of a new variety of rice that would quadruple the yields of native varieties. I never made it to Subic but heard many stories from sailors I occasionally ran into in Manila. The old man who owned the farm where I lived took me on a tour my first night and showed me where the Japanese raped his sister and where they killed his father, etc. The wounds still were very fresh. Filipinos were remarkable people.

                  1. Independent Bob – I have a theory about that. The further north you go, the more alcoholism is. The Vikings raided Ireland for years and finally set up settlements there, becoming the “black” Irish. With them came the gene for alcoholism. As the Irish intermarried, the gene spread throughout the island, until the majority of Irish carried the gene.

                    So, you have ill-tempered Vikings and Irish intermarrying and alcoholism is the result. It is a theory.

      2. Round up the local leaders of these terrorist groups… BLM/Antifa/etc. & round up the big money funders, like Geo Soros & some of these major corporation leaders.

        IE: The govt should know who bought/paid for all those pallet loads of bricks delivered to the scenes of where the riots were about to break out at. Where the hell is AG Barr?????

        1. There are only so many places to purchase a pallet of bricks. I know, having put in a patio. Either a brickyard or one of the big box stores. So yes, the FBI could pull security tapes from those stores and see who purchased them…that is, if they really want to find out.

      3. delmaracer– like you, I wonder what we can do. Fortunately, as of now UW has said the statue will not be removed but how long can they withstand the pressure from the racist “persons of color” demanding that it go? And how many others have we lost already, not to mention lives and property. Our media and democrat politicians have sold out this country because of their hatred of Trump. The swamp was a very comfortable and profitable place before Trump. Even now, as the country is being reduced to shambles, the democrats in the House are headed toward impeaching General Barr. I agree with Paul C– we need to speak up and speak up often, and pray that some elected officials somewhere will stand up and be counted. Otherwise..

        1. This video is 17 minutes, send this link to your leaders.

          Ask if the test are reliable? What is the MFG’s of the test opinion of the test’s accuracy?

          Ask them if they are aware of the fraud by the NIH/CDC against the citizen & if they are aware what they are doing to make sure the public are aware of the 16 times over the actual count of Convid-19 cases.


      4. “We” didn’t ask for this current crap. This has been pushed on America by the so-called educated class that can’t put their education to actual work.

  7. It’s Newton’s third law again. One must focus on both extremes in order to move closer to the center and a solution. For example, instead of removing statues, replace them with appropriate ones. The statue of Lincoln standing over the kneeling slave is an affront to the intention of the emancipation of Blacks and disgraces the memories of those who fought against slavery. Replace this statue with one of Lincoln standing hand outstretched to hold the hand of a freed slave, standing with an equally outstretched hand. The moment should be memorialized but not as it was. History should not be erased but clarified. The slaves were made free and equal by Lincoln’s actions. It’s time to change the representations of history, not history.

    1. Typical beta male appeasement mentality. Chamberlainesqe even. You fight against that which is wrong or you turn in your manhood card. Issac may never have had one so he might not know that. For the rest of us, it’s other oppose obvious evil or be overwhelmed by it.

      1. I agree, but we are faced with more than one evil. Our system of “representative democracy” failed long ago- our “representatives” respond to powerful monied interests and they don’t give a damn about anyone other than themselves. That evil corruption of government has created the conditions for the emergence of another evil: marxism. We need to oppose both evils, but we have already proven incapable of dealing with the first. Now that first evil, corporate corruption, seeks to align itself with the marxists. This crisis will be with us until we actually deal with both.

        1. Ivan:

          I think we have a remarkable opportunity to throw out the trash, redo the system and bust up globalist monopolies. Only the fool looks at turmoil as anything less than an opportunity.

          1. I agree with you. I don’t want our nation destroyed because our government is corrupt; I want it fixed.

        2. Ivan, if you want to get big money out of politics you should be voting Democratic, the party which has consistently supported campaign finance reform for decades. Republicans with a few exceptions like McCain have opposed it. The Citizens United ruling which opened the floodgates was passed by the SCs conservative majority. Lobbyist reform is another area Democrats support and Republicans not so much. If you seriously believe this is the controlling problem, you need to reexamine your affiliations.

          1. My vote(an independent who voted for Dems almost all my life), and that of my brothers and their wives(all registered Dems), will be going against the Democrats. We are a family of lefties who are all horrified by the modern left. That doesn’t mean we are Trump fans, but we will vote for him because the alternative is unacceptable.

            Removing money from politics by restricting the amount that individual donors can give while allowing the major media companies to support their candidates seems like total abandonment of our politics to our corporate media overlords. As you know, I have my own solution which is to vastly increase the number of Reps so that the people can influence their Reps more directly thereby circumventing the entrenched corrupting forces.

            1. Ivan, then you are not taking action against what you have described as the fundamental cause of our problems. Making the districts smaller could be worse. Consider:

              Local and state politics travel under the radar, meaning it does not get the coverage of national politics. You almost certainly know who your Senators are and maybe your House Rep, but the odds are strong that you have no idea who your state rep and senator is and don;t know the key legislation in the state legislature. If you do, you are rare. Making it small and local increases the likelihood of corruption.

              No one who is really a leftists can support Trump, so forgive my guffaw at your claim. It’s BS. He’s signed a tax cut targeted to the top 1% that you and your kids will be paying for a decade, has taken actions resulting in millions losing health care and is still trying to make it worse, has cut federal aid to a slew of social aid programs and environmental protections, and with his tariffs has cost jobs and raised prices. He’s installed his own cronies and family members in government and is constantly fighting to remove oversight from everything from the trillions being spent for virus aid to accountability for his appointees across the administration. No leftist would support that.

              1. Guffaw all you like, but you could easily meet me and my family if you actually wanted to check your sense of reality: five Northeastern liberals who voted for the Dems their entire lives are all voting for Trump because we fear the modern left. I live in NYC and am always available for a friendly, sidewalk beer and chat.

                There’s a lot I don’t like about Trump and there’s some things I do like. However, I view the modern left as far more dangerous. The left of my youth fought for freedom of speech, expression, and association. Now they do the exact opposite and that makes them the enemy in my mind. The movement to take down statues is something that echoes back to the darkest periods in human history, yet the left cheers for it. I feel permanently alienated from the left and I’ve seen the same feeling course through my family.

                The “representation” problems at the Federal level are also seen throughout all levels of government…I’ve made this point before.

                I’ve lived in my district for twenty three years, yet I have NEVER seen my Rep in public. He has NEVER taken questions from the public. Almost all our politicians are invisible and therefore unaccountable. Our system of 1 Rep per 800k people is absurd on it’s face.

                1. Ivan, I had happily meet you for a beer – McSorely’s? – but I live more than a thousand miles from the city I spent some years in in my mispent youth.

                  If you have decided on Trump based on some principle, I’d like to hear what. He’s against everything anyone truly on the left would favor and has no principles of his own.

                  1. Whitehorse Tavern. Next time you come through let me know. The burger and beer will be on me.

                    The driving principle behind my vote this year will be my fear of the left which I’m very happy to explain in great detail. I prefer candidate Trump to President Trump, but I’m also happy to explain what I like and don’t like.

                    1. I had to cancel my summer trip to Flushing. I would have gone but for all the covid shutdowns. I know if I stay with the Chinese people there I am safe from the protester-rioters and antifa. Last time I went I had fun playing baccarat at the Resorts world casino but now that’s closed. I would be stuck playing mah-jong in a private room but I am no good at that. They would fleece me blind. MIght as well stay out here in Flyover until ….. ?????

                  2. “Ivan, I had happily meet you for a beer – McSorely’s? – ”

                    I’m sure you would you sexist pig. That is what women in the woman’s rights movement would have called a hypocrite like you. McSorely’s wouldn’t permit women in.

                    Your history is littered with sexism and likely racism as well.

                    1. I frequented McSorely’s regularly in the period before women were allowed. Best on weekday afternoons before the frat boys showed up.

    2. “The slaves were made free and equal by Lincoln’s actions. It’s time to change the representations of history, not history.“
      The slaves weren’t freed by Lincoln. He gave an order that couldn’t be enforced. The slaves were freed by the deaths of 350,000 white men and legions more who lived to defeat the South. Find me another country that did that. You won’t. Systemic racism is a cruel slur on all those brave white men who died for black men and black women.

    3. I think what the statue represents is the former slave starting to rise up from his previous condition of servitude. It looks like he’s starting to rise but not yet on his feet, because he still has a ways to go before he is truly equal. It wouldn’t be realistic for the slave to be standing in front of Lincoln shaking hands and saying, “Thanks, dude; see ya.” The blacks objecting to the statue claim that it gives credit to Lincoln for freeing the slaves, and doesn’t acknowledge their role in freeing themselves. But really, did they? There were occasional uprisings, and many runaway slaves, but there’s no getting around the fact that there were 4 million slaves in 1865, and millions of slaves had remained in slavery for 400 years, so as Kanye said, “that’s starting to look like a choice.” Today’s blacks may not wish to acknowledge that their ancestors were, for the most part, fairly passive about it, but numbers don’t lie.

      1. They were mostly content with their lot because the alternative was worse. Prior to the trans-Saharan slave trade, African tribes raided each other for meat and women (the two things being often one and the same). They had no large domestic animals (because of the tsetse fly), so cannibalism was normal. The slave trade gave vanquished people economic worth so they could be sold rather than eaten. That’s still an improvement.

        In more recent times, slavery was still the preferred option. One example out of many – in the late 19th century when slavery was made illegal in the Portuguese Empire and all slaves were freed in Mozambique, what do you suppose their reaction was? Did the freed slaves celebrate and rejoice in the streets? Were they happy to be granted their freedom? No. They rebelled violently and attacked Government offices in protest. Why? Because now that they were “free”, they were liable for two things: 1. Taxes; and 2. Military Service. Both these new liabilities were far more onerous and dangerous than working on a plantation where they were fed and housed at the owner’s expense.

    4. That statue of of Lincoln is the Emancipation Memorial and depicts the slave having the chains broken and is rising thanks to Lincoln. It was funded by former slaves as an offering of gratitude. It’s a powerful message, but people like you refuse to acknowledge the real message and instead choose an alternative one that fits your misguided narrative.

      Here is part of what Frederick Douglass had to say about Lincoln during the speech he made at the statue’s unveiling. At this point, he is addressing white Americans:

      “First, midst, and last, you and yours were the objects of his deepest affection and his most earnest solicitude. You are the children of Abraham Lincoln. We are at best only his step–children; children by adoption, children by forces of circumstances and necessity. To you it especially belongs to sound his praises, to preserve and perpetuate his memory, to multiply his statues, to hang his pictures high upon your walls, and commend his example, for to you he was a great and glorious friend and benefactor. Instead of supplanting you at his altar, we would exhort you to build high his monuments; let them be of the most costly material, of the most cunning workmanship; let their forms be symmetrical, beautiful, and perfect, let their bases be upon solid rocks, and their summits lean against the unchanging blue, overhanging sky, and let them endure forever! But while in the abundance of your wealth, and in the fullness of your just and patriotic devotion, you do all this, we entreat you to despise not the humble offering we this day unveil to view; for while Abraham Lincoln saved for you a country, he delivered us from a bondage, according to Jefferson, one hour of which was worse than ages of the oppression your fathers rose in rebellion to oppose.”

    5. Issac, good idea about replacing current statue with a more accurate one. I wonder just what the sculpter of the orig statue was thinking when he/she made and submitted his/her drawing for the current statue? It might have been better with a plate installed on the statue’s base to describe what the statue represented and why. I sure can’t figure out the symbolism. I doubt many can.

      1. delmaracer

        The statue was of a time when the reality of emancipation was a goal and not an accomplishment. This is true with most things. Laws are passed and then society’s performance attempts to catch up. When the statue was made Blacks were still seen as inferior and rising from a position of servitude. It was still a given for most that they would never rise to a stance equal to Whites. This is still, to some degree the case. If the statue is to reflect the moment fully historically correct, it wouldn’t be something one would feel good about viewing. As it is it offends many. Statues and monuments commemorate the ideal more than the reality. The Black recently freed slave represents the ideal. Ideally, the objective of the war was to revisit the ‘All men are created equal’ part of the essence of the country. Regardless of how poignant the statue might have seemed at the time, today it illustrates the White man standing over the recently freed slave, still in control. The ideal would be equality represented by two standing men. The broken chains hanging from the wrists of the Black would be enough to document history. Perhaps these monuments should document history and ideals. A statue of General Lee may document a person in history but in no way documents the ideal for which America stands.

        1. “The statue was of a time when the reality of emancipation was a goal and not an accomplishment.”

          Just keep writing your own version of history in order to fuel your outrage. Must be a lot of work to continually make this stuff up.

    6. “Replace this statue with one of Lincoln standing hand outstretched to hold the hand of a freed slave, standing with an equally outstretched hand.”

      Speaking personally, I detest statues. I read somewhere, once (and I wish I could now find piece of writing where I read it) a writer who said statues are the “totalitarian art form par excellence.” I heartily concur.

      Statues are an artistic expression of the exact same neo-totalitarian mindset we now find among BLM, their woke acolytes, and their corporate sponsors. Just as it has now become an intolerably taboo expression of racism to suggest, however tentatively, that BLM might, possibly, maybe, just a little bit, contain certain toxic elements, a statue is set up as a representation of some unalloyed and unchallengable public benefactor that cannot be argued with in any meaningful symbolic manner, without generally facing some serious penalty for defacing public property. My own preferred form of attacking a statue would be to sneak up to it in the dead of night and leave a cream pie on its face. It’s funnier than mere wanton destruction and cannot seriously be construed as a defacement in any real criminal sense.

      It is not enough merely to tolerate BLM; in a thoroughly creepy display of acquiescence to this new quasi-totalitarian mindset, it seems that most of the country is engaged in a competition to see would can perform the most abject display of praise for it. This is all in spite of the fact that the organization is built on a rickety frame work of lies and espouses reforms that are either insane (defunding the police) or would require a ruthless fascistic form of government to implement (destruction of the nuclear family). Oh, yes, I almost forgot to mention the vast orgy of pointless violence and property damage they’ve inspired.

      To get back to the issue of statues, despite my dislike of them, I think the only thing more totalitarian than statues themselves, is the insistence of a minority of voices at they must be taken down to appease them. One reason is that you can’t appease these people.

      But, to address, at long last, isaac’s point, if any statues must be taken down, I staunchly oppose their being replaced with anything at all.

    7. “… For example, instead of removing statues, replace them with appropriate ones. …”

      This is an absolutely ridiculous statement. Social norms change as generations pass. Your “solution” could be deemed just as offensive, if not worse by future generations. I can’t believe I have to make this point. Good lord.

      1. I vote for a statue of fascist mobs torching and looting American cities. Or a memorial to the faceless thousands of children murdered by gang violence. Both tastefully done though.

  8. It’s true that Lincoln had a low opinion of blacks. He made numerous speeches where he was recorded as saying that the freed slaves should be returned to Africa because they were mentally and morally unfit to live among whites and would “forever be a burden on future generations of Americans.” Lincoln and Kentucky Senator Henry Clay were members of the American Colonization Society which was formed to return the slaves to Africa, and created the country of Liberia in Africa as a homeland for former American slaves. They only succeeded in repatriating 5,000 slaves to Liberia – all of whom went there voluntarily – before Lincoln was assassinated. And it didn’t turn out all that well in Liberia. There are YouTube videos showing the nasty practice of cannibalism there, so it’s probably not a good vacation spot. Plus the videos of the otherwise beautiful coastline littered with miles of 💩 piles because the Liberians prefer to take a crap on the beach rather than build some outhouses. Oh well. The thought that the U.S. could ship 4 million slaves to Africa in 1865 seems rather unrealistic. A Caribbean Island would have made more sense.

  9. Today, it’s the monuments to our most thoughtful leaders. Tomorrow, it’s the foundational documents they created that have protected and guided us for centuries. The day after that, the fascists will write their own documents that they expect us to live by.

  10. Hey JT these radical students are illiterate feisty fools. Don’t try applying logic and reason to idiots. You apply force to fools when they act as fools always do – foolish. Here’s an example of effective feisty fool management, Italian style. Think it’s just a movie? Think again.

      1. @Oky1-Very sad, We lost two of our heroes on my job in the same way, a simple traffic stop. These men and women are the thin layer that protect the law abiding Americans from these crazed killers. The left now uses them to advance their Marxist agenda.

        I see the mayor of the “Summer of Love” has changed her opinion after she came under their sword. The Democrats will lie and eat their own just as Stalin and Mao have. Next these fools will be waving little Black Books. We must stop them now and in November.

        1. Society through the media’s/US Intel eyes are pushing males… everyone today into being some sort of beta cuck.

          That isn’t me.

          If you look at the picture of the perp’s eyes, I know that look from running crews for decades. I moved my family here, among other reasons, because those types that then knew where I lived.

          I hate it for that cop’s family/friends.

          I just know from instinct, I’m not hesitating when I see that look. I suggest everyone consider something of that type protect stance.

          And stay stocked up on TP!!!

          I noticed my Ret Lt Col friends this spring were caught stranded without a roll! Jeez! Logistics ladies!

    1. Excellent Mr Espo! They remind me of the South Orange Ave crew. Maybe I shouldn’t say this, maybe but things are shaping up to this being the only way to return to normal not a “new normal”.

      These people have an opportunity to get a great education instead they choose to create mayhem. Go to another school if you’re politics aren’t satisfied. As far as the schools go hold your ground you run the school not the students.

  11. Those students need to live in Minneapolis.
    They need a knee in the neck. They need to read up on Honest Abe.

    Good ol boys from Minnesota zoo.
    Sent in dumb, come out dumb too.
    Hustling round the bars in the alligator shoes.
    They are keeping freedom down.

    They’re nitwits. Nitwits.
    They don’t know their arse from a hole in the ground.

Leave a Reply