We recently discussed the false tweet sent out by CNN’s White House reporter Jim Acosta that mocked White House press secretary Kayleigh McEnany for saying that “the science should not stand in the way of this.” That quote was artificially clipped to leave the diametrically opposite impression from what actually said. The clip suggests that McEnany was dismissing science when she was actually highlighting scientific work supporting the position of the White House. While Acosta later sent out another tweet noting the real meaning and his colleague Jake Tapper corrected the false narrative on the air, Chuck Todd on Meet the Press decided to play the misleading clip not once but twice on Sunday. It was not just running an overtly misleading clip but defiantly doing so after other journalists have challenged the erroneous impression left by the clip. The misleading quality of the clip clearly was not the problem but the appeal for Meet the Press.
Todd has previously had to apologize for misleading clips.
In Thursday’s briefing, McEnany repeated President Trump’s call for children to go back to school in the fall.
“The science should not stand in the way of this, but as Dr. Scott Atlas said — I thought this was a good quote, ‘Of course, we can do it. Everyone else in the Western world, our peer nations are doing it. We are the outlier here.’ The science is very clear on this. For example, you look at the JAMA pediatric study of 46 pediatric hospitals in North America that said the risk of critical illness from COVID is far less for children than the seasonal flu. The science is on our side here. We encourage localities and states to just simply follow the science. Open our schools.”
As noted earlier, she is clearly citing the science as supporting the position of the Administration. However, Acosta clipped the statement to make it sound like McEnany was dismissing the relevance of science: “The White House Press Secretary on Trump’s push to reopen schools: ‘The science should not stand in the way of this.’”
The quote was McEnany referring to a scientific study and, right after the line quoted, McEnany said “The science is very clear on this.” She then two lines later added “The science is on our side here.” The entire quote was McEnany raising a scientific study that supports their position. It is akin to a McEnany saying “National security is not relevant because the Defense Department report supports this policy” only to have Acosta tweet “The White House Press Secretary: “National Security is not relevant” in White House policy.
Tapper stood by the facts over the narrative when his colleague CNN’s chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta repeated the same false narrative that McEnany was having an “alternative facts kind of moment.” Tapper responded: “If I could just say, Sanjay,. I think she was just trying to say that the science shouldn’t stand in the way because the science is on our side. I don’t know that all of the science is on their side- and certainly, this White House, their respect for science knows bounds, let’s put it that way, but I think that’s what she was getting at.”
As bad as that incident was, it is not nearly as bad as Chuck Todd ignoring the controversy and the correction to repeatedly air the same misleading quote. NBC was fully aware that the clip was not just misleading but that it conveyed the opposite of what actually was stated in the press conference. Todd showed a clips of people denying the need to wear masks and stated that Trump is just ignoring the risks to push to open schools. He then showed the clip of McEnany that is edited to cut off her reference to scientific data, making it sound that she was saying that the science was not important. The clip was played a second time later in the show. Unlike Acosta, Todd did not later even add the fact that McEnany continued on to cite the scientific support for the policy. He just left the misleading clip without any clarifying context.
If an ill-considered tweet is a venial sin for Acosta at CNN, this is a mortal sin for Todd at NBC. This was no careless tweet, but an airing made long after the false account was flagged during the CNN controversy. It is another example of how the echo-journalistic model not only undermines the faith in the media but actually undermines the effort to fully inform the public on the pandemic. Rather than focus on legitimate questions about the Administration’s efforts, Todd instead knowingly played a false gotcha clip.
I have previously criticized Todd for omitting facts that did not fit an attack on the Administration as well as his repeated disparaging comments on Trump supporters. These is a fundamental change in the media where such shaping of facts to fit a narrative is now commonplace. Indeed, it is essential to maintain an echo-journalistic model. The result however is the lost of reliable sources to unbiased news. Many disagree with this President and this White House, but they still want to receive an accurate account of what is being said and done in Washington. Instead, they are given news tailored to the preference of hosts who see facts as the a type of clay to be shaped into a preferred image for public consumption. There comes a point where you are not long informing but indoctrinating the public.
I was hoping that Todd would return to the earlier clips to offer some context to show that the clip was the opposite of what McEnany clearly meant. However, the show ended without any context, clarification, or correction. This week, many of us praised Chris Wallace for correctly challenging President Donald Trump for misstating the position of Joe Biden on defunding the police. Biden’s comment on shifting funds was widely defended in the media as not meaning that he would support the more radical calls to defund the police. Journalists objected that the statement was taken out of context in the interview. I agreed with that objection. Yet, those same voices in the media are silent on this false account against the White House and Todd went further in replaying the clip twice on the air.
Carl-Edward, that is completely false about the viruses. Influenza is caused by influezaviruses. COVID-19 is caused by a novel coronavirus, a dissimilar single strand RNA virus of considerable complexity. Quite a bit is known about it.
U.S. Response To Pandemic Seen As Spectacular Failure In World Community
Other countries have managed to avoid the kind of dramatic viral resurgence that is happening in America. Spain, Italy, Germany and France — all devastated by the virus months ago — drove coronavirus cases and deaths to relatively low levels. The United Kingdom has been an outlier in Europe, with one of the highest per capita death tolls in the world, but after suppressing transmission, it has not seen a major rebound.
And in Asia, the picture is radically different. In Taiwan, baseball fans sit in the stands and watch their teams play. Japan has had fewer than 1,000 deaths from covid-19, the illness caused by the coronavirus. South Korea has had fewer than 300. Vietnam has recorded no deaths from the virus.
The death rate from covid-19 in the United States looks like that of countries with vastly lower wealth, health-care resources and technological infrastructure.
Edited From: “The Crisis That Shocked The World: America’s Response To Virus”
Today’s Washington Post
REGARDING ABOVE:
This is a long feature story. I only posted a section of the opening paragraphs.
About two months ago I was debating Commenter Alan here on the blog. As a Trump cheerleader, Alan was claiming we could reopen the red states and ‘work around’ the blue states where Covid 19 was then concentrated.
I responded to Alan by noting we would only get ‘one’ chance to get reopening right. If we botched reopening, I wrote, the setback would quite costly.
So here we are, in mid July, and we totally botched reopening. The U.S. is now in a worse position than we were in April. No progress has been made! If you compare this pandemic to WWII we’re barely past Pearl Harbor.
One should note this pandemic is costing us the equivalent of a World War in terms of totally spending. But again, we’re barely past Pearl Harbor. And Trump intends to fight this war with no cohesive strategy!
It would be like fighting WWII with 50 National Guards under 50 different governors. What a mess!!
“I responded to Alan by noting we would only get ‘one’ chance to get reopening right. If we botched reopening, I wrote, the setback would quite costly.”
Because you say so ?
Only twits that can not analysze data think we have botched anything.
We had a brief small spike in hospitalizations and deaths as we reopened.
Both are back on a downward trajectory – as expected.
You want to freak out over spikes in postive tests – we are doing 6 times the daily testing as in april.
If we are really in worse shape than in April we should have 6 times the total cases.
JHU say that are 3.7M confirmed C19 cases. CDC estimates 25-54M – that is almost a factor of 10 difference.
Of course more testing will produce more cases.
But it will not change the fact that we are headed OUT not in.
But if you insist – then fine Trump and red states have done such a fantastic job that 50K people a day are testing positive – but almost none of them are getting very sick, needing a hospital or Dying.
Somehow Trump and red state governors have made C19 harmless.
I do not care what you want to beleive Seth. But the death rates and hospitalization rates are droping – not rising.
And I do not care if 10 times as many people test positive – if fewer and fewer die or are hospitalized.
“So here we are, in mid July, and we totally botched reopening.”
No YOU have botched statistics 101.
Less people dying, less people in the hospital – most people would celebrate.
” The U.S. is now in a worse position than we were in April.”
How so – 3700 people a day were dying in mid april. 2000 in NYC alone.
There are not 1000 people in the WHOLE US dying each day – that is less than flu deaths in flu season.
And the numbers are dropping.
“No progress has been made! If you compare this pandemic to WWII we’re barely past Pearl Harbor.”
Nope we are just awaiting the Japanese surrender.
And some people are still teriffied that we are going to have to invade the Japanese mainland.
“One should note this pandemic is costing us the equivalent of a World War in terms of totally spending. But again, we’re barely past Pearl Harbor. And Trump intends to fight this war with no cohesive strategy!”
Wow, something we can agree on. Democrats and republicans have fallen all over each other to use this as an excuse to waste money.
“It would be like fighting WWII with 50 National Guards under 50 different governors. What a mess!!”
C19 is not a war. The president has actual war powers in the constitution. There are ZERO public health powers given to the federal government in the constitution.
Every single epidemic since the start of the country has been dealt with this way.
I have pissed over BTB for trying to make Obama into a hero over H1N1 – he was not, he was a goat.
But H1N1 – like Covid, and all epidemics before – is not a federal issue.
Frankly is should not be a state issue either – blue states have botched it.
In their delusion to beleive that viruses listen to politicians they have burned their own economies.
It is like Democrats look at the virus and say – “Listen, Do as I say, or I will shoot myself in the head”.
But then democrats do tend to beleive that government is in command. That they can speak and it will happen.
That we are all robot zombies that obey their commands. And that nature listens to congress.
I would like, but I’m not up to speed on this forum. So, nice breakdown!
Now for some actual data:
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/07/second-coronavirus-death-surge/614122/
Your article fails to make its case.
We have had more than enough time for any real spike to have an effect.
Ycharts is now reporting the Sunday death toll for the US as 415 – agreeing with World-O-Meter.
That low number is likely part of the natural 7 day cycle. Regardless the trend is DECLINING deaths.
TX hospitalizations still dropping.
Alternate planets.
Your information is skewed entirely wrong. 1k deaths nationally from Covid, second day in a row. Haven’t touched that rarefied air since the spring.
Ycharts says there have not been 1K deaths since July 7. Todays deaths are 372. Data from JHU
Should go up again tomorrow – because there is a 7 day cycle in the data – but not likely to 1000.
John, the Bug seems to argue only about 2 things, what happened yesterday and what might happen. Frequently his data about yesterday is wrong or not interpreted correctly and his predictions are seldom correct. But none of that matters. What matters is what one does about it and the Bug like a bug only thinks about the next few seconds. That makes what he says worthless.
I am waiting for him to say what he would do differently but when saying so that he provide some metrics as to how that compares to what we are doing presently and how that will accomplish what everyone desires. He acts as if the properties of the virus could be overcome simply by wearing a mask or by a test neither of which stops the spread until the R) is 1 or less and no new virus enters the country from abroad.
He seems unable to comprehend that flattening the curve is not the same as destroying the virus.
He probably lives off of some type of government support such as social security and Medicare with a possible pension. He doesn’t need to work. Alternatively he is receiving other government subsidies from the government or gets money elsewhere so not working is not a problem. He doesn’t seem to think about where that money is coming from and who is going to pay for it in the future. He is a very shallow thinker so I hope he starts to dig deeper and while doing so provides some answers.
I’ve been providing metrics to you for months you freaking idiot. The fact that you discount them them because you don’t like them isn’t my problem.
I’ve been saying what I think should be done forever as well.
-Do everything possible to strengthen your own immune system
-massive testing and contact tracing operations and medical equipment with federal back up
-government stimulus to try to soften the edges of the trump depression
-remove trump ASAP >> he’s incapable of facing the challenges of the office.
-use the forced stoppage of the economy to remodel future economy i.e. systematically shift to sustainable energy production.
“I’ve been providing metrics to you for months you freaking idiot.”
Bug, Put aside your spell check and substitute a dictionary so you learn what a metric is. Then make sure you are using the right metric for the right situation along with making sure the metric is correct. You have a lot of problems with data and how that data deals with the situations under discussion.
As I have said over and over again you are good with your spellchecker but outside of that you have little use.
“I’ve been providing metrics to you for months you freaking idiot. The fact that you discount them them because you don’t like them isn’t my problem.”
Yes, I think dead people are something I care about.
While positive tests are only meaningful if they turn into dead people.
“I’ve been saying what I think should be done forever as well.
-Do everything possible to strengthen your own immune system”
And what has government got to do with that ?
“-massive testing”
That might be informative but it is otherwise useless.
“and contact tracing operations”
There are between 25-54M people who have had C19.
Everyone in the US has been in contact with atleast one.
It was too late to get anywhere with contact tracing in March.
If contract tracing was going to work – it would have at the start.
“and medical equipment with federal back up”
What does this mean ?
Regardless, the president has very limited unilateral spending authority.
“-government stimulus to try to soften the edges of the trump depression”
Does not work.
Standard of living is the actual value that we produce that we are able to consume.
Dumping trillions on the economy does no change the value produced
When you told people they could not work – you destroyed the value they would have produced,
and you will never get than back.
If your “stimulus” idea worked – we should all quit working and just have the government pay us.
“-remove trump ASAP >> he’s incapable of facing the challenges of the office.”
As evidenced by what ?
All your claims have been garbage.
“use the forced stoppage of the economy to remodel future economy i.e. systematically shift to sustainable energy production.”
Wow – go from stupid to worse.
All energy is “renewable” – Aparently you forgot the law of conservation of energy.
We will shift to other forms of energy on our own when we are wealthy enough and value that highly enough.
Just as we switched from wood to coal, and coal to oil and oil to natural gas.
You can not force this.
Today what you call “Sustainable” energy is less efficient, more expensive releases more CO2 and kills more of nature.
Data for this Date Range
July 22, 2020 1195.00
July 21, 2020 1082.00
July 20, 2020 379.00
July 19, 2020 415.00
July 18, 2020 853.00
July 17, 2020 908.00
July 16, 2020 943.00
July 15, 2020 949.00
July 14, 2020 900.00
July 13, 2020 361.00
July 12, 2020 428.00
July 11, 2020 676.00
July 10, 2020 811.00
July 9, 2020 990.00
July 8, 2020 820.00
July 7, 2020 1195.00
And just as an aside, I have 3 jobs and I work upwards of 14 hours a day 6 days a week.
IOW, Allan…, I sweat out my monthly bills to the freaking penny each and every month. While I appreciate your putting me in the class of people who don’t have to work (such as yourself) putting me in that category in your mind says everything about you and nothing about me.
“I sweat out my monthly bills to the freaking penny each and every month.”
That is wonderfu Bugl. Did you learn how to manage that to the penny trick from the H&R Block accounting procedures? I am more worried about those that might face losing their businesses and jobs permanently. I worry about some of the businesses I am involved with because I don’t want them to end up closed because too many good people will lose their jobs. They depend on these jobs being there now and in the future. Destruction of businesses can lead to closures that never reopen and a lot of people suffering.
“I sweat out my monthly bills to the freaking penny each and every month.”
If this is true then you are either not producing much value, or seriously living beyond your means.
That is great. Bug, do you act as a decoy bum that lies in the street? Good job for one that can’t do much of anything. Do they provide all the alcohol you want for free?
And yet you post incessantly. Give us your employers’ particulars. Do we have a revelation for them.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/07/21/covid-live-updates-us/
From your link bug (thanks!):
“Only a small proportion of people in many parts of the United States had antibodies to the novel coronavirus as of this spring, indicating most of the population remains highly susceptible to the pathogen, according to new data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention….
……60 to 70 percent threshold for herd immunity, the point at which enough people are immune to the virus, either through exposure or because they have been vaccinated. Herd immunity makes it far less likely the virus will be transmitted from person to person….
“Most of us are likely still very vulnerable to this virus and we have a long way to go to control it,” said Jennifer Nuzzo, an epidemiologist at the John Hopkins Center for Health Security. “This study should put to bed any further argument that we should allow this virus to rip through our communities in order to achieve herd immunity.”….”
here is also some evidence that immunity gained from contracting the virus may be short lived, which would further make herd immunity an unlikely solution to the problem. Vaccines is our most likely way out of this.
27% of the world got H1N1 in 1918.
And then it stopped.
The threshold of anti-bodies for herd immunity is NOT 80%.
Few diseases ever hit over 30% of the population.
On the diamond princess less than 30% were infected – despite optimal conditions.
We do not know the exact proportion of people who are naturally immune or resistant.
But it is an excellent bet it is close to 70%.
Sweden is fairly certain they are seeing herd immunity at antibody levels of 16%.
They are seeing TCell immunity levels about double that.
and they are seeing a large portion of the population that seems to be naturally resistant of immune.
The article explains *exactly* what’s happeing right now. You know, in reality.
Yes, I do know in reality – deaths and hospitalizations are Not Tracking new cases.
Both deaths and hospitalizations are measures that are inherently less error prone.
Further they are closer to direct measures of what we actually care about.
That is called reality.
I also know that the trend you are hoping for is anomalous – we have not seen anything like it anywhere else in the world.
Not in countries that have locked down. Not in ones that have not, not in ones that have locked down and then opened.
The possible (not plausible) explanations are:
The new case trend reflects greater testing.
The virus has mutated and become more contageous but less fatal.
We have gotten 10000% better at treating C19 AND something that has not happened anywhere else is now happening.
So how long do you think you can continue to sell panic porn when the deaths do not explode ?
I have zero doubt that if the US deaths skyrocket Trump can kiss reelection good bye.
It does not matter whether he had nothing to do with that.
It does not matter if the left and the experts are full of $h!t.
The election will be over and Trump will loose huge.
That is just how things work.
But I also know how to read trendlines and patterns across the world.
The odds of that scenario being true are near zero.
The question is when it turns out that YOU have been wrong – are you going to be able to admit it ?
Do you think voters are going to forgive you for falsely scaring the shit out of them ?
The left has been doing this through the Trump administration.
Making stupid bets – first it was collusion delusion,
scaring people to a frenzy, and when the bet fails, upping the ante with a crazier bet.
So what is the crazy claim that comes NEXT ?
John Say, this is all over the news, huge surge in infections.
https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/07/20/892937971/a-wake-up-call-states-battle-new-surge-in-covid-19-cases
I will repeat my bet to Buggsy to you.
If TX hits 45K total C19 deaths – the population adjusted equivalent of NY
I will vote for Biden.
If TX does not hit 10K deaths – that would be less that 1/4 the deaths/million of NY you agree to vote for Trump.
If you actually beleive the nonsense you are spewing, put some skin in the game.
John Say, you’re playing on tilt, man. The population adjustment thing is fun. But with the way you’re betting right now with the information you let into your brain, if we were, saying trading on the floor of the CBOT right now, I’d suggest you stop trading for awhile.
Under no circumstance will I vote for Trump. For the same reason I’d never work again for an landscape architect who worked for Trump. For the same reason I could never vote for such an incompetent and mean spirited leader again.
Figure out a different bet.
My bad!
I tacked an “again” onto last sentence of the above paragraph. I didn’t vote for Trump in ’16. I literallyn puked the second the election was called for Floptop. Went out the front door of my place and puked on the lawn.
Trump’s a birther who entered the race talking crap about Mexicans. Under no circumstance would I throw a vote Trump’s way. Ever.
Here is a good editorial by the great Thomas Sowell about words vs. deeds.
While I can quibble about you trump critiques.
I am not sure Trump was so much of a birther as just enjoying tweeking Obama.
BTW the birther thing was started by Clinton operative Sydney Blumenthal.
And the purportedly mexican racist quotes of Trump – are exactly like the recent McEnany science distortion.
Misrepresentation.
Regardless, Trump’s remarks are not endearing to many of us.
In 2016 it was the problems with Trump’s words vs. the problems with hillaries deeds.
In 2020 – we have Biden who is problematic in words and deeds.
And Trump who did not live up to his promise to be a respectful president.
But has lived up to an extraordinary number of his campaign promises.
Who is far from a perfect president – I am not going to get that.
But is inarguably the best president in the 21st centurty
And Biden’s acts ? Mostly lining the pockets of his family at the public expense.
And over a long carreer having a record of being for everything he is now against and against everything he is now for.
Really – no acts. A many decades long career of doing nothing. Which if elected – is what we are all praying will continue.
God forbid Biden should keep a campaign promise. We would be in deep trouble.
https://www.naplesnews.com/story/opinion/2016/10/12/thomas-sowell-words-vs-deeds/91896408/
And you have spent the past 4 years puking all over everything.
But the world has not ended. And infact we are doing pretty well.
Not as well as Trump brags, but certainly better than after 4 years of Obama or Bush
The fact you toss off Obama and Bush as being comparable says everything, John.
Bush handed off a smouldering pile of economic ruins to Obama. From 2009 on through ’16 was economic recovery. Completely different world than the one Bush left Obama…
And lo and behold, Trump will hand off an equal amount of financial wreckage to Biden.
Notice a pattern of words vs. deeds, John???
GDP in 2000 was 9.6T that is what Bush started with.
GDP at the end of 2008 was 14.5T that is 51% growth.
GDP at the end of 2017 was 18.7T that is 29% growth.
GDP at the and of 2019 was 20.6T that is 10% growth in 3 years.
Current Est 2020 GDP is 21.5T that is 15% growth in 4 years – even with a recession.
If Obama inherited a smolding pile of ruins – then he had nowhere to go but Up
Almost the entire decline occurred during the last 2 Q of Bush’s term.
When I gave you Bush’s Start to end change in GDP that Included the drop that occured in 2008.
Obama started as you say at the bottom of a recession.
He had nowhere to go but up.
And Obama had the worst recovery from a recession since the great depression – where FDR managed to cause a recession inside of a depression.
Bush is not some economic prodigy.
But Obama was an economic imbecile.
Trump is not nearly as good as he claims.
But he is far better than Bush or Obama.
BTW Growth in 2016 tanked through the year and we were very nearly in a recession at the start of Trump’s term.
4Q 2016 growth was barely above zero.
Everything was expecting a recession in 2017 that expectation ended with Trump’s election.
Like Biden it seems Obama or his agents claimed things that weren’t true to advance Obama’s interests. The book jacket of Obama’s opened up the question of where he was born. That came from Obama and his agents.
Trump talked bad about Mexican killers, drug cartels and Mexicans who trafficked in women. I guess the Bug thinks killers, slave traffickers and drug traffickers are the one’s he prefers to associate with.
Nah. I just think you’re an unmitigated idiot, Allan.
Bug, it looks like you are confirming the fact that you support “killers, slave traffickers and drug traffickers” That is who Trump was referring to but you prefer to insult Trump more than you prefer to stop the “killers, slave traffickers and drug traffickers”
That is pretty sick but something your doctors and psychiatrists have to deal with.
We know – you think any facts that run contrary to your naratives are flawed and anyone noting them is an idiot.
The Trump is racist against mexicans nonsense rests on TWO issues.
The first is a wildly bad edit of one of Trump’s remarks.
Much like the McEnany Clip where Trump says many things including good things about mexicans.
But in one sentence introduces MS13 and then says very bad things about them.
MS13 is very bad.
The 2nd is that somehow Trump is racist against brown people for building the wall.
According to the left it is automatically racist if we do not allow anyone in the world who wishes to come to the US and get free medical services, welfare, ….
There are atleast 750M people in the world who would like to come to the US.
Probably more if you give them free medical care etc.
I am pro-immigrant. My family came here from Ireland and Germany.
My children are adopted from China and South Korea.
I think we should welcome immigrants from anywhere – so long as they are not criminals, terrorists, etc.
But welcoming them does not mean we owe them anything.
But then I do not beleive we owe the people already here anything.
Woke vs racist
“John Say, you’re playing on tilt, man. The population adjustment thing is fun. But with the way you’re betting right now with the information you let into your brain, if we were, saying trading on the floor of the CBOT right now, I’d suggest you stop trading for awhile.”
If you think my Bet is such a loser for me – you should take it up.
“Under no circumstance will I vote for Trump. For the same reason I’d never work again for an landscape architect who worked for Trump. For the same reason I could never vote for such an incompetent and mean spirited leader again.”
Yes, got it – Trump – the mere name freaks you out.
It Trump offered you a million dollars – you would not take it because …. Orange Man Bad.
“Figure out a different bet.”
No – this is the perfect bet.
It tests the courage of your convictions.
If you really beleive the claims you make – the bet should be a sure thing. You should have care that if you lose you would have to vote for Trump – because you are so sure you are right that will never happen.
I am not interested in a Bet with you that will not cost you if you lose.
I do not care what you say without the courage of your convictions.
If you truly beleive we are in the midst major wave in red states. If you really beleive that Blue states have managed C19 better.
If you really beleive that blue state policies have worked and red ones have failed
Then the best I am offering is a no brainer.
Further I want a bet that will require the loser to think.
I can not force you to actually vote for Trump if you lose.
Though I will not make a bet I am not going to honor.
But if you agree to the bet – everyone will know it. Who ever loses – everyone will know.
And if you do not do what you agreed to in the bet – I may not know – but you will.
If you do not keep your commitment – you will know that you failed morally.
This is not about embarrassing you.
It is about bringing home the fact that what we are debating has consequences.
I can not make you grasp that you are actually doing harm – you are not saving people, you are hurting them.
But maybe realizing the consequences of being wrong on an issue might bring home to you that
These things matter, they have consequences.
That your “smart planning” does not come free. That making decisions for others by force on whim is not such a hot idea.
That maybe you had better be more sure before you use force against others.
And finally – that it is not the “experts” that you claim to rely on that will have to pay the price when you impose their advice on others by force.
Experts are advisors.
The responsibility for decisions lies with those who make them.
And we are rarely entitled to make decisons for others.
“But if you agree to the bet – everyone will know it. Who ever loses – everyone will know.”
That would only means that the Bug gets a new alias. He is not a serious thinker so he doesn’t correct his errors by learning more. He corrects the errors by changing his alias. That is why he continues to be a non thinking individual.
Does not matter – he will know.
And whether I recognize his new alias or not – I will know.
Further so will everyone else.
They may not know that whatever future Alias of JB is also an idiot.
But they will know that the progressive argument FAILED.
John, human nature is tricky. People want to fool themselves so badly that what you say above may not be what actually happens.
The Bug doesn’t have the capacity to compare complex things so he takes the easy route. He makes a choice of the answer before knowing even the questions to ask. Then he holds firm to his answer without ever questioning it. A lot of people on this blog do the same. Listen to them. When he disappears, to that type of person, most of his failures disappear with him. To actually remember the failures requires energy and intellect.
John Say:
-the orange man *is* bad and deserves to be removed from office and have to face the tax and insurance fraud charges waiting for him in NY state.
-No, betting on the final body count from a pandemic that was allowed to spiral out of control by a failed leader is not a bet anyone should take. Ever.
Allan: hey, like we agreed on before…, there’s a broomstick with your name on it surely within close proximity to you right now. Put it to use, man.
“Allan: hey, l… there’s a broomstick with your name on it surely within close proximity to you right now. Put it to use, man.
In my type of community we use broomsticks for sweeping small garbage from the floor. You would be too big. We already know your taste for “killers, slave traffickers and drug traffickers” so I guess you use brooms for other things.
Once again that type of craziness should be discussed with your doctors or pyschiatrists.
“-the orange man *is* bad and deserves to be removed from office and have to face the tax and insurance fraud charges waiting for him in NY state.”
Have any of your other predictions about Trump come true ?
Do you really belive that the small army of lawyers and accountants that had to review Trump’s taxes before they were filed would have allowed a fraudulent return ? Do you understand if there is anything wrong with Trump’s taxes – lots of lawyers and accountants will face jail – as well as lawsuits by Trump ?
You are completely clueless about Taxes.
As to insurance. One of the businesses that I operate does Property condition assessments. Banks and insurance companies hire me to assess the condition of a significant building before they refinance or insure it .
I have done assessments of server NYC skyscrapers, Including the Marriot on Central Park.
In another business I also filed paperwork to get insurance.
You do not understand how insurance works either.
1). No Insurance company writes insurance on an asset – not even a home, relying on the owners determination of value.
2). Insurance fraud is NOT and can NOT be claiming an incorrect value to insure.
Lloyds wrote a policy insuring cutty sark should someone ever win the contest it offered for evidence of the loch ness monster.
What is the value of the loch ness monster ?
Lloyds insured bruce springsteins voice for $6M.
Insurance is a form of gambling. You bet that something bad will happen and in return you get money.
The insurance company bets that it will not, and you pay them premiums. So long as the bad thing does not happen – they keep the premiums.
The value does not matter at all. The only effect is that it sets the premium.
If you own a $2M building – you can insure it for $10M – and you will pay a higher premium.
Ir you can insure it for $1M – and you will pay a lower premium.
Regardless the insurance company sets the premium based on the payout, not the actual value.
Insurance fraud is when you burn the building down to get the insurance money.
‘No, betting on the final body count from a pandemic that was allowed to spiral out of control by a failed leader is not a bet anyone should take. Ever.”
Why ? The only reason I can think of is that you know that you will lose.
People bet on anything. People are betting right now on the outcome of the election.
This is no different.
The fact is you have no confidence in your own forecasts.
“Insurance is a form of gambling”
John, it really isn’t gambling. When one goes to a casino they will be thrown out if they are successful card counters. Insurers are professionals not gamers or gamblers. Casinos use multiple decks trying to prevent card counters and change the decks frequently. Insurers, like card counters, count the risk of each transaction and spread their risks to prevent significant loss. What they are actually doing is transferring risk from one party to another and charging a fee for doing so. Insurance brokerage is a great way to earn a living.
I am not interested in this semantic game.
Absolutely insurers are “professionals”, they do everything possible to eliminate any randomness they can from their bets.
But in the end they are still bets.
Further in the analogy the insurance companies are the casino’s – not the betters. Remember both sides of a bet are gamblers.
But the house is generally secure in the knowledge that because its volume is huge and because the overall odds are in its favor that the losses will be dwarfed by the wins.
Is Casino gambling and insurance exactly the same – no.
Casino gambling is essentially an entertainment industry, and insurance is essentially privately socializing loss.
Mist of us think the later has more value than the former.
“I am not interested in this semantic game.” … ” “But in the end they are still bets.”
John, in the end all of life is a bet. There is no need to play semantics but there is also no reason to place all actions under the same label which in this particular case (fraud etc.) IMO seemed to blunt your argument.
“Texas has been widely covered. No one can cover up a genuine pandemic.”
https://www.tmc.edu/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/d-covid-19-positive-case-growth-trend-7-19-2020.png
LMAO
You are cruel, John, very cruel. Keep up the commenting. You have them spinning ala Curly 3 Stooges
I do not create the facts.
I am just not ignorant of them.
“Other countries have managed to avoid the kind of dramatic viral resurgence that is happening in America. Spain,…” …
“Alan was claiming we could reopen the red states and ‘work around’ the blue states where Covid 19 was then concentrated.”
I was saying we could work around the hot spots which so happened to be the worst in blue states.
Deaths per Million
Spain 608
NY 1,674
Fl 232
Fl, last number of deaths from the surge 84 and falling
Let’s do a MOCA test on Paint Chips. If one is looking for survival which location has the best chance? I don’t think Paint Chips has any idea of numbers. Spain has 46 million people Florida has 22 million just slightly half of Spain and more than NY.
Deaths
Fl 5,000 (R)
NY 32,500 (D)
Spain 28,500
If no other deaths were calculated and we approximated for the size of Florida the very approximate number of deaths in Spain would be 14,000 that is almost 3X greater than Florida. I think Paint Chips failed math in grade school.
To put things in perspective about 30 people die every day due to drunk driving; 130 from suicide; 50 from homicide.180 from drug overdoses.
Guess what, the total number of deaths from drunk driving, suicide, homicide and drug overdoses are just slightly trailing the total number of deaths from Covid-19 at 131,000
I would love a graph of deaths from all causes over the last 10 years including this year. Does such a graph show 150,000 deaths this year above the 10 year average?
The deaths attributed to C19 is just a guess. The CFR is not accurate. The total case count is not accurate. The death count due to coronavirus is not accurate.
We do have total population counts. We do have the total number of deaths from all causes.
“I would love a graph of deaths from all causes over the last 10 years including this year. Does such a graph show 150,000 deaths this year above the 10 year average?”
Old George, I made mention of that more than once many threads ago.
Draw the death rates taking into account all the variables for 10 years and continue with the successive years. Likely there will be a slight heightening of the graph but not of that much significance. The following year or so there likely will be a slight lowering of the death rate.
Using a rolling 5 year graph every year I don’t think the difference in graphs will be detectable though if one did the same in NYC metropolitan area one might spot the effects Covid for those particular areas.
I can not get data to the present. But at the start of June we were actually running slightly BEHIND the average for the prior 5 years.
I found this from the CDC: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm
If I read that correctly the excess deaths from C19 are quite small, and the prediction is that there will be a drop off in total deaths between now and September.
Such that the end of the year total will be unchanged.
If correct this is not surprising.
It just means what we know – most of the people dying from C19 were going to die soon anyway.
This is also typically true of the flu and of pneumonia.
You wonder if anyone teaches 5th grade math in school anymore.
I guess they are too busy teaching our kids that they are all the wrong sex, that communism actually works, and that words mean whatever you want them too.
I guess Paint Chips you couldn’t understand the numbers or the content so you ran away. There is no such thing as discussion where you are concerned. You make statements and when the facts are presented you fade away.
Ah, so the other countries that F;d up are pointing fingers at the US.
How Quaint.
Grow up. The Obama apology tour is over.
America is exceptional. Europe is jealous.
Real Americans do not give a $h!t about world opinion.
They care about what is right.
Since late April deaths from Covid have plummeted:
https://s3.amazonaws.com/lrc-cdn/assets/2020/07/1232.png
You’re a simpleton, Seth.
In fact, you’re not even capable of being a DNC troll.
Wow, now you ended his dreams. So cruel….haha.
So, Rhodes, you’ve finally figured out the difference between the rate of infections and the death rate, and that the death rate is lower, but what does that have to do with the daily record number of confirmed infections? Getting coronavirus is not like “the sniffles”, nor is it “harmless”, contrary to statements by the fat election cheater, and the success in reducing the death rate has nothing whatsoever to do with him. No one knows what the long-term effects will be. We do know that levels of antibodies drop over time, and it is believed that you can get the infection more than once. We do know that the lungs of victims are scarred–will that make them more vulnerable to future pneumonia or other lung infections? Some have months of brain fog, inertia, body aches and pains. These are the survivors. This is a novel virus. It takes time to know the full ramifications of being infected, so it’s better not to get infected in the first place.
“So, Rhodes, you’ve finally figured out the difference between the rate of infections and the death rate, and that the death rate is lower, but what does that have to do with the daily record number of confirmed infections?”
Nothing – no sane person cares about the daily number of positive tests.
We care about the actual daily number of new infections – a number we can not actually measure.
And if the testing rate improves over time – then the positive test number is no longer valid for comparison.
But the most important things we care about are the number of people who die, or the number who get seriously ill.
Those numbers are not subject to the vageries of testing rates. And they are declining.
“Getting coronavirus is not like “the sniffles”, nor is it “harmless””
If you are under 20 the odds are that it is LESS serious than that.
“contrary to statements by the fat election cheater,”
The evidence at the moment is that Hillary cheated on the election – she is the only one who conspired with russians – also ukrainians.
“the success in reducing the death rate has nothing whatsoever to do with him”
Your right – it doesn’t. It is just the natural progression of the virus.
C19 does not give a crap about your policies.
“No one knows what the long-term effects will be.”
Correct – people who got C19 could develop superhuman abilities.
But that is not likely. Nor is it likely that millions of people will suffer permanent disability.
40% of all colds are corona viruses.
“We do know that levels of antibodies drop over time,”
Actually we know very little about antibodies over time.
Some viral diseases lead to resistance that lasts 65 or more years – H1N1, Smallpox.
Some lasts only months. We do not know about C19 yet.
But so far there is no evidence anywhere in the world of a 2nd wave – which would be the sign of resistance wearing off.
” and it is believed that you can get the infection more than once.”
Maybe true, but “it is beleived” is not known fact.
“We do know that the lungs of victims are scarred”
Yes, very serious cases that came close to dying.
This is also true of the flu and colds.
“will that make them more vulnerable to future pneumonia or other lung infections?”
People eventually die. Older people especially.
Pnuemonia is one of the most common killer of old people.
My father had Vascular dimensia, he had Crones, he was in liver failure.
He was definitely going to die in the next couple of months.
He caught pneumonia
“Some have months of brain fog, inertia, body aches and pains.”
Again things common in 70 year olds.
“These are the survivors. This is a novel virus.”
Not really. It is not radically different from other Corona Viruses.
“It takes time to know the full ramifications of being infected, so it’s better not to get infected in the first place.”
Sure, and if you ride a car today – you could die.
Oh, No TX hospitalizations show way up!!!!! Trump is toast!!!!!
We are all going to die!!!!!
They were 268 on the 19th and today there were 269!!!!!!
https://www.tmc.edu/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/f-TMC-daily-new-covid-19-hospitalizations-7-20-2020.png
The Wapoo is garbage but this line exposes a bitter reality:
“the United States looks like that of countries with vastly lower wealth, health-care resources and technological infrastructure.”
YES. AND IT LOOKS LIKE A FAILED STATE LIKE SOME THIRD WORLD COUNTRIES TOO.
WHAT’S WITH THE VANDALISM OF PUBLIC PROPERTY, MOBS FIGHTING COPS? FAILED STATE STUFF!
now, I see people saying this scary phrase, “Failed state,” from liberals writing at the Atlantic to ex CIA right winger Giraldi at unz report
here’s the thing. Trump’s made some big mistakes, in a big crisis.
but it was already a mess and getting worse in a lot of ways, for a long time
however we got here, it’s coming unglued.
use your head, look around you and see how complex systems sometimes fail, and figure out how to locate yourself in posture that wont fail
a book i read years ago– Tainter’s “Collapse of Complex Societies”
check it out
PS,. what do Taiwan, Vietnam, and Korea have in common?
Answer: they are not DIVERSE. they are “ethnostates” and they are geographically smaller
think about that
what’s number 2 on the big covid mess scale?
brazil. geographically large, and incredibly “diverse”
somehow its seems ever more questionable that ‘diversity is our greatest strength.” maybe it’s actually a weakness?
I said it here before. Trump’s wife has convinced him to get his body off the ticket and them out of the White House. Trump will name Pence as the President nominee at the convention. Pence will beat Biden.
Life will go on
Mister Pence:. Build up that fence.
What??? What are you drinking??
Liberty……How about this? Trump steps down. Pence becomes the nominee and makes Trump his VP.
After Pence wins, he resigns snd Trump becomes President again??? 😎
Here we go again. Turley only complains about non-Trump media. You have to try really hard to ignore the daily pro-Trump slop and outright lies told on Fox.
As to the merits of bottle Blondie’s statement, the
US is the outlier. No other country has the daily record- setting number of coronavirus cases, so we have no peers. She is lying about science supporting blanket reopening in the face of a pandemic that is out of control. Science is not on Trump’s side. The overall message is intentionally misleading.
Natacha – post your picture so we can see how you stack up again the “bottle Blonde.” You have failed to list your SAT, LSAT and BMI scores so the assumption is that they do not fall in your favor. BTW, China is still welding CV-19 patients into their apartments and lying about their numbers. They have at least 3 cities that are shut down right now. And by shut down, I mean no news is getting out. So, you do not know what our peer is doing!!!!
I second that!
Women routinely alter their appearances, literally from head to toe. They change their height using high heeled shoes, nylons change the appearance of their legs, bras control the shape of their busts, makeup changes the coloring of their faces, nail polis changes the color of their finger and toe nails, and they sometimes dye their hair.
With that in mind, even if her hair is dyed, she’s well within the norm of how American women choose to present themselves. Why is it that you feel the need to comment on this part of her appearance?
Or, why even comment on her appearance? Do you feel that women’s professional capabilities SHOULD be judged on their appearance?
But but but….liberals can’t be misogynists….they can’t….
One day the media won’t lie and cover for them, and they will be known for what they are. I hope Virginia will deal with their misogynists and racists as well. Otherwise, they will have no one to blame other than their selves.
I come from a generation that eschewed the Jean Harlow fake platinum blonde with shaved off eyebrows, girdle-wearing, crippling high heel wearing generation of my mother’s cohort. When I was in college, we wore real Levis, not the knit type with Spandex or embroidery or fake rips, that are popular now. We let our hair grow long, and the color was natural. No fake yellow hair with black roots. If we had curly hair, so much the better. We refused to wear girdles, back, knee, feet and ankle damaging high heel pumps, too. We wore Earth shoes and Allegrias, which are good for your feet and posture.
What do you have today is a return to maximum fakery–bottle blondies with black roots (which looks terrible–like bird relieved itself on your head), extremely high heels (which produce corns and worsen the tendency to bunions, not to mention damage to the back, ankles and knees), spandex, yoga pants and thongs (which promote yeast infections), bleached teeth, fake tans, showing a lot of skin, all of which says that a woman is not an independent thinker and does not have the self-confidence to present herself in her natural state or even dress like men, covering her bare arms in a professional setting. Men do not show their bare upper arms in professional settings. Then, there’s the modern version of the valley girl speak that only females adopt. It’s not healthy because it’s phony, so I assume they also are phony and are hiding their insecurities behind a façade of fake self-confidence by altering their appearance to meet a standard set by someone else. Men primp more now than before, but not to this degree. They don’t adopt their own way of speaking, either.
Why comment on her appearance? Have you noticed the number of females in Trump world who are bleached? Ivanka, Kellyanne, Tiffany, Eric’s wife, Laura Ingraham, and most of the Fox female script readers, etc.. I don’t take seriously anyone who alters her appearance to conform with some standard set by fashion magazines. Since men don’t do this, the females who do are buying into a double standard.
Have you noticed the number of women with power in Trump’s world ?
Or do you only care about women if they dress in burlap and earth shoes ?
What has a long rant about how people dress over time got to do with anything ?
not “covering her bare arms in a professional setting”
Thank Michelle Obama for popularizing that trend. She was so proud of her bare arms, or ‘guns’ as some called them, that she wore mostly sleeveless dresses everywhere she went for eight years in the White House. Also, there’s a reason they call the young interns on Capitol Hill, the ‘skin-turns.’ These young women truly don’t understand what is appropriate attire in a professional setting. What a shame.
Or maybe you’d want to blame Jackie Kennedy?
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/michelle-obamas-sleevegat_b_171172
Oh, noes… Also sleeveless:
https://meaww.com/melania-trump-praised-not-criticized-michelle-obama-sleeveless-dress-daytona-500-modeling-past
Google and you’ll find plenty more.
“Why comment on her appearance? Have you noticed the number of females in Trump world who are bleached?”
Kayleigh McEnany’s predecessor was not blonde and was viciously ridiculed by the left because they said she wasn’t attractive.
Fail.
Yes, that is the question, “why comment on her appearance?” 1. Lefties are very much into shaming. It’s a pathology of the mind, as you can’t help yourself. In some cases, you might not even know you’re doing it, I guess. 2. Jealousy of these women, and I suppose, to a degree, even the men, including Trump. 3. It is much harder to resist doing this when you have no actual argument against the point at hand. 4. I guess if Candace Owen can be a White Supremacist, you can be a misogynist.
All that stuff was revealing but moreso about you, than the wonderful lady you refer to. It would nice to meet these women, (including Sarah) and finding out more about them. But no need for you to meet them, you’ve already judged them unworthy. Tsk!!
which is it??? Is she lying, or did she say what Todd claimed that she said? Get your story straight.
Here’s the reality, Natacha.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/lrc-cdn/assets/2020/07/1232.png
I realize that you and reality have never even met, much less gotten acquainted with each other.
But reality still exists,
I don’t know, Rhodes, but can you understand the difference between infection rates and death rates? The chart you keep citing is about death rates, not new infection rates. The U.S. keeps setting new daily records for confirmed coronavirus infections. Death rates are down because doctors have discovered more-effective means of treatment, including keeping patients in the prone, rather than supine, position, using Remdesivir, an Ebola drug, and using 100% oxygen and a corticosteroid to avoid mechanical ventilation. Trump has nothing to do with the reduction in the death rate. That is reality. What is also reality is that the long-term effects of coronavirus infection are unknown and unknowable at this point. Science tells us that lung scarring is not good. Victims report that they have body aches and pains, trouble concentrating, low energy and other problems weeks after recovering. What is also reality is the fact that Trump keeps lying about this infection, downplaying it, including calling it “the sniffles”. That is outrageous, but the American people are seeing him for the game show host he really is.
“I don’t know, Rhodes, but can you understand the difference between infection rates and death rates? The chart you keep citing is about death rates, not new infection rates. ”
That is correct.
What is it you care about – finding some statistic that you think makes Trump look bad ?
Or reducing the number of deaths ?
If deaths and cases severe enough to hospitalize are down and have been down for weeks despite increasing positive tests.
Yopu would think you would be celebrating.
BTW the number of positive tests is NOT the infection rate.
It is highly likely that the death rate and hospitalization rate are not only accurate, but measured uniformly over time.
We know that 6 times as many tests are being done today as in april. We know that in april testing mess 19 of 20 cases.
More testing will result in more positive tests – even it the actual infections are declining.
“The U.S. keeps setting new daily records for confirmed coronavirus infections.”
That is correct – but that is not the same as records for actual infections.
We have 3.7M confirmed infections – CDC estimates 25-54M actual cases.
“Death rates are down because doctors have discovered more-effective means of treatment”
If so – we should celebrate.
But that does not explain why hospitalizations are down too.
“using Remdesivir”
There is enough remedsivir to handle 2 days of the critical C19 patients in april.
I am glad we have it, but it has made a small dent in deaths.
“a corticosteroid”
Great and readily available – it reduces the death rate 20%. that should still mean we should be seeing about 5000 deaths/day.
“Trump has nothing to do with the reduction in the death rate. ”
Correct, he really has little to do with any of this. Public health is not a federal government role.
Frankly it is not a government role.
“What is also reality is that the long-term effects of coronavirus infection are unknown and unknowable at this point.”
The long term effects of tomorow are not known.
“Science tells us that lung scarring is not good.”
That would be in hospitalized cases – hospitalizations are down.
“Victims report that they have body aches and pains, trouble concentrating, low energy and other problems weeks after recovering.”
The hardest hit are older. I am 62, it takes me weeks to recover from everything.
“What is also reality is the fact that Trump keeps lying about this infection, downplaying it, including calling it “the sniffles”. That is outrageous, but the American people are seeing him for the game show host he really is.”
If you are going to defame someone. if you are going to call them a liar, you are obligated to prove your claim or the moral failure is yours.
What is true is the left and the media have hyped C19 to the max.
It is no worse than the 1967 Flu. We did not close schools, or shutdown the economy. It killed more people than in the whole vietnam war in a short period – but no one canceled woodstock. It barely made the news.
C19 is about the equivalent of a bad flu year. That is all.
And yet because of left wingnuts we have behaved stupidly.
Instead of following the same approaches we have always taken in the past we have jumped off into stupid.
Trump is not under reacting – you are insane and panicked over nothing,.
Trump has been a loser his entire life. He depended on his Daddy to bail out his businesses over and over again and was dependent upon his father well into his forties. He bankrupted six (6) businesses. He has always reveled in creating the fake persona as a self-made billionaire deal maker. All lies. The only success he has had was with the show “The Apprentice”. He is a malignant narcissist who attacks anyone who doesn’t kiss his generous sized ass. First he downplayed the virus as “one person coming from China”, then it was “15 cases will soon be 0 cases”, then “it will be gone by April”, then it was “we’ll have a vaccine very soon”, next it was the “game changer hydroxychloroquine”, then it was putting a light into the human body and ingesting Lysol or Chlorox bleach, and when he couldn’t lie, bluster or bully his way out, now he’s trying to pretend it doesn’t exist and that it is “fake news”, fostered by his enemies. Yesterday, he even accused Chris Wallace of being “fake news”.
No one is “panicking” over the coronavirus. The entire world is concerned and took steps to stop the spread. Why do you think the EU, Canada, Mexico and the Caribbean nations have closed their borders to Americans? The line that “the left, the Dems and the Libs” have created a fake pandemic to make Trump look bad and lose the election is just a fake talking point. What’s going to happen this fall and winter when we add seasonal flu to the coronavirus? A perfect storm?
Truth is, Trump doesn’t know what to do. His massive ego won’t let him defer to experts. He is no leader. He can’t bluff, bluster or lie his way out of this mess he made worse by his incompetence, but he’s trying because bluffing, bullying and lying are his modus operandi. When the CDC reports the truth, he goes after them, including Dr. Fauci. Now, he’s got HHS controlling the information about the numbers of new cases and he has withdrawn the U.S. from the WHO. I predict a miraculous reduction in coronavirus infections just in time for the election. Trump is desperate. He will claim that the CDC and states inflated the numbers to make him look bad. And, sadly, his disciples will believe it.
Trump has been a loser his entire life. He depended on his Daddy to bail out his businesses over and over again
You can’t get through one sentence without lying.
Dr. Fauci, who Hollywood and the Left have elevated to a strange glorified cult like status, will be tossing out the first pitch for the National’s opening day. This follows his cover story on celebrity fave magazine, In Style, where they glorified the “Good Doctor” as some great savior while he posed for his cover photo shoot with his Ray Bans poolside. The man has a gubmint job to do, that he’s done for decades. He did not do it very well with this virus, made many mistakes, showed poor judgment, yet this is what the media and lefty Hollywood culture wants to put on some kind of pedestal and idolize? As if…
“She is lying about science supporting blanket reopening in the face of a pandemic that is out of control.”
Natcha, you have no reading comprehension.
She was referring to reopening schools, not a “blanket reopening”.
What “science” supports reopening schools in the face of a surging pandemic that is worse now than it was in March-April? Why did we close schools then if controlling the spread of the virus wasn’t important? How do the U.S. daily numbers compare with those of the E.U., which, by the way, closed its borders to U.S. citizens? She was trying to say that science supports reopening schools, despite the positive numbers of new cases setting new daily records, and that is simply not true.
What “science” supports reopening schools in the face of a surging pandemic that is worse now than it was in March-April?
The term ‘worse’ does not mean what you fancy it means.
People under 50 are seldom in danger from this ailment. You can furlough the employees over 60 and the employees over 50 with a high body mass index. Our efforts last winter should have been directed toward isolating the elderly.
“Our efforts last winter should have been directed toward isolating the elderly.”
That is what the children of Baby Boomers do with their elderly parents: isolate the edlerly in nursing homes de rigueur
That is what the children of Baby Boomers do with their elderly parents: isolate the edlerly in nursing homes de rigueur
No, it is not. People in nursing homes are there because their infirmities prevent them from performing daily activities unaided. In New York, you either have to be demented or to have severely limited mobility to be admitted to a nursing home. The typical person admitted to a nursing home lasts less than 1 year. You have a 40% chance of entering one before you die. NB, you have to liquidate your assets to qualify for state-funded nursing home care. When we were reviewing local homes for our mother, the charges were $12,000 a month. Our mother lasted five months therein.
The elderly who need to be isolated would be anyone over 60. There are about 70 million people over 60 in this country, of whom maybe 2% reside in nursing homes.
Abigail’s remark may have been overbroad, but there is something to it.
Assisted living is on the path to nursing homes. assisted living berths have increased over time as the product sells. People like it. and it makes transition to nursing homes easier when needed.
‘
seems to me if we counted “assisted living” in with nursing homes, then the generalization about the baby boomers might not be that unfair
https://seniorhousingnews.com/2019/10/16/monthly-assisted-living-costs-surpass-4000/#:~:text=Assisted%20living%20costs%20have%20risen,living%20varied%20widely%20by%20location.
now on the one hand, it’s hard to blame boomers if their own parents want this sort of intermediate form of housing.
on the other hand, i talk to a lot of people about this subject, and there definitely is a palpable desire of boomers in wanting their parents to be squared away and not burdensome. because home based care, well, it’s a lot of work, even when people are getting paid and all the right moves are being made.
I try and not get too judgmental about how people chose to live their lives and the trends. even though Im inclined to it. I will say there’s something lost when younger generations don’t see the daily effects of aging. and when young people are more and more distant from the experience of dying, as observers, they will tend to fail to appreciate the significance of it in their own lives. as a culture we lose something big, when we forget the inescapable reality of death.
Kurtz, there are such things as ALF’s where seniors go in healthy and more in stages to assisted living and nursing home care. Defintely to be considered if one can afford it.
yes its a good deal for a lot of people, offers flexibility and a way of more easily adapting to future decline
the main downside is not for the resident, in my mind, i find they usually feel pretty good about these choices– at least before the covid, because, now there is some regret due to cancelled activities and isolation– but before the covid, more and more popular, for good reasons
but the main downside is just the lose in the sense of life people have, when they are segregated from elderly and the dying
life does not last, aging and death always come, and young people should see it too, so they can appreciate time
if you have no sense of time, then you waste it. but each one of us, is guaranteed to run out of time, one day. it is the most certainly limited resource.
Our kids were out of the house, but 2 of our remaining parents – my Dad and mother-in-law died unexpectedly – spent their last year living with us. We – and they – were lucky they did not suffer from dementia and in reasonable shape. They spent their last several days in the hospital. My mother 93, my father-in-law 98. Don’t regret any of it and miss them being here.
My mother died at home surrounded by family of colon cancer in her 70’s.
AS death goes it was not to bad. She was never in real pain.
My father-in-law went next, he was 84 and in good overall health.
But he was diagnosed with a treatable kidney cancer just before christmas.
They operated, and everytime they fixed one problem a new one popped up.
Everytime they operated he had a heart attack.
Finally his gall bladder went hot and they told us they could not operate again it would kill him
But if they didn’t he would die.
He went home, it took him 2 horribly painful weeks to die.
It was really bad.
My Father had a stroke next. After a series of mini strokes they called it vascular dimentia.
He also had crones flare up. The treatment for his crones caused him to have more strokes, the treatment for strokes caused him to very nearly bleed to death from crones. The hospital eventually told us not to bring him back.
a Unhappy sibling who had been stealing from him called the office of aging and told them he was being poisoned.
The court threw him into a home – despite video tapes, mpoa’s, pulse’s and myriads of legal documents that he wanted to die at home.
He died in less than a month in the home from pneumonia. There was an autopsy because of all the allegations.
The autopsy found exactly what his doctors and his care takers had said – that he had been removed from all medication months before and could not have been poisoned. And it turned out that he actually lived longer as a result – his prior doctor – who we had fired and was used by the unhappy sibling to get him yanked, had been massively overmedicating him and he had almost died of liverfailure before we stopped all drugs. Regardless, Vascular dimensia was the worst of all my relatives deaths.
If Biden is developing dimensia, I have terrible sympathy for him and his family. He should go home and be with them.
but the main downside is just the lose in the sense of life people have, when they are segregated from elderly and the dying
You don’t know what you’re talking about.
“but the main downside is just the lose in the sense of life people have, when they are segregated from elderly and the dying”
Kurtz, not sure what you are trying to say.
+1
PS To Kurtz at 3:29.
I’m familiar with assisted living, which has two levels in New York. You have to have assets to liquidate in order to pay for it, because it’s private pay or private l/t care insurance. Medicaid does not finance assisted living (at least in New York).
“but the main downside is just the lose in the sense of life people have, when they are segregated from elderly and the dying”
he says: “You don’t know what you’re talking about.” hmm, well, I have modest experience in this area, but I express myself poorly.
I meant to say the loss in the sense of life, not the lose. maybe I was unclear.
while we all can die only once, before that, death is social, meaning, it doesnt happen in isolation, it affects the living and not just the dead. and we can learn about it not just through books but through seeing it and experiencing it, through the decline and loss of family people and friends. loss of physical proximity can mean, loss of that opportunity to witness the dying process…. it’s a painful experience but meaningful. kind of like birth, painful, difficult, messy, causes a lot of adjustments to be made, but meaningful.
Ernst Junger had a good monograph called “On Pain” that explores the subject of pain in existence, and the consequences of habitually evading it.
My thought was, if the elderly are physically segregated in housing units of various levels of care, well, they may like that, but younger people are losing out on what the elders have to offer, including, the painful experience of watching them decline and even die. these things are part of life
I think that one aspect of COVID restrictions that are very dubious is the flat out bans on funerals, in many states, no funerals more than 10 people
there are also some restrictions on types of religious observances, ie, Kaddish, I am told, would not know but so I hear.
COVID is not the only bad thing happening around us, not the only risk in life. the biggest risk for funerals is just people getting in their cars and driving to them.
cancelling funerals seems like a bad idea to me. however, i keep this to myself. who wants to be a cheerleader for having funerals?
but we are fools if we cut out death related rituals from our culture as much as we have been doing during the quarantine this is unwise.
we should have respect for death and the dead and show it, socially.
“My thought was, if the elderly are physically segregated in housing units of various levels of care, well, they may like that, but younger people are losing out on what the elders have to offer, including, the painful experience of watching them decline and even die. these things are part of life”
Kurtz an ALF is a place to live. My mom decided to go so she could be near more people that were of similar age. I saw her all the time as did all her children and grandchildren. She frequently drove to my house to visit in addition to the parties I would throw for her, her brother and sister, holidays etc. I would visit her with my dog. I would walk there but it was far away so it took a long time so sometimes if it was hot the dog would get too tired. My mom would drive over and pick the two of us up.
Once a person needs assisted living or nursing home they require more care than can generally be offered at the home. In her facility there were no extra charges for moving to the more expensive assisted living or nursing home. She didn’t want to leave her apartment so we kept her in her apartment and got nurses to help in her care and even built a ramp when she needed it so she could more easily go up the two steps to get into my home.
Since you define “the elderly who need to be isolated (as)…anyone over 60”, are you including Trumpy Bear and Mitch McConnell? Trump’s mental infirmity prevents him from performing daily activities unaided. Twice during the interview with Chris Wallace he had to ask for help with statistics, which proved that he was lying, BTW. He is morbidly obese, does not exercise and consumes a poor diet of McDonald’s Big Macs and Diet Coke.
Natacha – the President is obese, but not morbidly obese. Now, where are your pictures and SAT, LSAT and BMI scores. BTW, Trump’s management style is to have other people handle the little stuff and he signs the checks and contracts.
And on another not, are you working from home or is your office open? And if it is open are you required to wear masks all the time?
I’m sure the president is carefully monitored.
You’re a fine one to be schlonging anyone for mental infirmity.
What there is something wrong with checking your data ?
Would that you would do that EVER.
Differences of opinion are NOT lies.
Reasonsable disagreements on facts are not lies.
Even unreasonable disagreements on facts are not lies.
A lie requires deliberate deception.
Any claim that anyone is making deliberately false predictions about C19 is stupid.
The future will come – shortly. Frankly it is already here.
It is 6-8 weeks since the confirmed case rate stated rising.
Well past the time the hospitalization and death rates should have matched.
Are you going to accept reality when deaths have dropped to zero and the election has come and gone ?
Trump is overweight. His height to weight does not make him morbidly obese.
He plays golf apparently daily. that is more than sufficient exercise for his age.
I would be more concerned about Biden’s health than Trump’s.
Despite the jokes – yes the MOCA is ridiculously easy – it is not an IQ test, it is a brain function test.
It reveals declining acuity in different regions of the brain.
I doubt Biden would do near so well as Trump.
My father had Vascular dimensia. His MOCA went from 28 to 16 in a year.
Biden strongly reminds me of my father at a score of about 22.
You should hope for Alzheimers – that moves very slow.
If Biden has Vascular dimensia, he will be dead in less than 3 years
And he will not be able to fake his way through an election.
Absurd, you are ‘absurd’! No danger to people under 50..?? Have you ever looked at obesity rates in this country? It’s not just people over 50.
The death rate for people under 50 is 0.0001 – 1/10000.
Yes it is probably higher for the obese.
Obesity rates increases with age up to about 60.
“Why did we close schools then”
That is a good question. The answer is that was an abysmally bad idea.
The science does not and did not support it.
The EU has had substantially more C19 deaths than the US – but it has a larger population so the overall deaths/million are nearly identical.
“She was trying to say that science supports reopening schools”
That is correct and she cited studies – there are many claiming that.
“despite the positive numbers of new cases setting new daily records, and that is simply not true.”
non sequitur.
Top Pediatricians Unanimously Saying They Would Send Kids Back to School
‘Monday on MSNBC, host Craig Melvin was stunned after NBC News/MSNBC medical correspondent Dr. John Torres’ segment featuring pediatricians saying they would send their kids back to school in the fall with proper precautions like mask-wearing and social distancing plans in place.
Torres interviewed Dr. Yvonne Maldonado in California, Dr. Shilpa A. Patel in New Jersey, Dr. William V. Raszka in Vermont, Dr. Jennifer Lighter in New York and Dr. Buddy Creech in Tennesse….
…..’Torres asked, “Would you let your kids go back to school?”
Dr. Patel said, “I will. My kids are looking forward to it.”
Dr. Raszka said, “Yes, period.”
Dr. Lighter said, “Absolutely. as much as I can.”
She added, “Without a hesitation, yes.”
Dr. Creech said, “I have no concerns about sending my child to school in the fall.”
Dr. Maldonado said, “I would let my kids go back to school.”
After the segment ended a shocked looking, Melvin said, “They all said yes.”
https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2020/07/13/watch-msnbcs-melvin-stunned
WOW, you hypocrite Jonny, I am looking for all the false statements made by Trump that you mentioned in your blog. And his retractions (none). Surprisingly I am having difficulty finding your mentions of the them. Oh, there are a couple–and how many has he made? Good lord, have you no shame?
What some are now pleased to call science, is an utter fiction. Science can now be bought and sold, and is generally used for political ends. As to Covid 19, it does not exist as a separate virus (no-one has isolated it), but is rather a more intense form of flu (and flu kills many people every year, as do other respiratory infections). The story of an epidemic is being used as yet another form of social control – a prelude to the establishment of a totalitarian world government. Most people to-day are at best semi-educated, and may accept this. Earlier generations were less gullible.
Carl, nothing to worry about then? That’s comforting to know.
Maybe you can tell us why hospitals in Houston are currently overwhelmed. And explain why hospitals in Dallas have refrigerated trailers outside.
How about the Redskins keep their name but change the mascot to a potato.
Seth……that is not true. It’s false reporting meant to cause hysteria. Looks like it worked.
Cindy, that’s not false reporting. Texas has been widely covered. No one can cover up a genuine pandemic.
Cindy, if there’s no Covid in your part of Mississippi, stay where you are!
Seth………I am IN Texas…that’s why I know those stories are lies.
My people haven’t lived in Mississippi since 1866, when the damnyankees murdered my g-g-granddaddy, and his widow and 5 children had to move to Louisiana.
“Cindy, that’s not false reporting.”
That is false reporting to create hysteria and help Biden win. Of that there is little doubt. Look at the numbers I posted in an earlier response. You refuse to deal with numbers choosing to deal with lies, generalities and spin. That makes almost all your comments worthless.
Of the 11 states with deaths per million greater than 500 I think all are led by Democratic governors.
Local hospital here no longer doing elective surgery. But hey, probably all boob jobs anyway. Who needs hospitals when the freedom to not wear a face mask needs defending. Our precious Trumpsters will swoon if they have to. Next on the agenda: I don’t have to stop on red!
@bythebook- Strange how masks have become an article of faith – a talisman, a quasi-religious, magical, mystical object – among the progressive left. Some say that their powers are enhanced by incense and a Gregorian chant (Orange Man Bad! Orange Man Bad!).
It is a scene reminiscent of those old Orthodox priests. But at least their faith channels the wisdom gained through thousands of years of human experience.
The left does not beleive in god, but they are as deeply dogmatically religious as Jimmy Swiegart – maybe more so.
He atleast knew that he had sinned.
No, masks are not viewed as a talisman, they are viewed as proof of social responsibility and respect for one’s self and others. Coronavirus is a disease that can be asymptomatic and yet be spread to others. Of all of the bad things Trump has done or failed to do (and there are lots of them), politicizing the wearing of masks is the worst because it is causing thousands of people to die unnecessarily. You see his dumbass disciples protesting the wearing of masks outside of state houses in this country. You see his dumbass disciples partying in close contact with others, flaunting the social distancing guidelines. You see dumbass Republicans trying to put exemption from liability for failing to take reasonable preventative measures to control the spread of this plague into financial aid packages. It is shocking to believe that anyone could oppose taking such a simple and important step to save lives.
Cite one source that shows wearing masks, simply pulling a piece of cottom bandana up over your face, actually does something to prevent spreading the virus.
“No, masks are not viewed as a talisman, they are viewed as proof of social responsibility and respect for one’s self and others.”
o.e. a talisman and virtue signalling to boot.
If you are infected – do not wear a mask – do not leave your home, that will show responsibility.
BTW adding social to the front of things is superfluous. You are responsible or you are not, there is no socially responsible.
There is justice and injustice, there is no social justice.
“Coronavirus is a disease that can be asymptomatic and yet be spread to others.”
The evidence on that is poor.
“Of all of the bad things Trump has done or failed to do (and there are lots of them), politicizing the wearing of masks is the worst because it is causing thousands of people to die unnecessarily.”
Mire of this – if you do not follow my policy perscriptions “thousands of people will die”, nonsense.
32K people died in NY – most in NYC – it would be hard to find a place that is less likely to listen to Trump.
The highest death rate in the country is in NYC – are you saying that New Yorkers were all buffaloed into not wearing masks by Trump ?
The death rate per million in TX is 1/10 that of NY. There would have to be 40,000 deaths in TX just to break even with NY on death rate.
Seems those “trumpsters” are doing pretty well for themselves.
“You see his dumbass disciples protesting the wearing of masks outside of state houses in this country.”
Atleast they are not engaged in “peaceful protests” – you know, looting and burning and murder and mayhem,..
Those “dumbass disciples” protest at state houses – like you said, the place you go to petition government.
Not inside of Target’s wrestling with cash registers.
Those “dumbass disciples” show up armed – often with AR-15’s, and yet no one at all is hurt. Ni one is arrested, there is no actual violence.
You can not “protest” anything without destruction and violence and arrests and people getting beat up or dying.
I greatly prefer those “dumbass disciples” to you.
“You see his dumbass disciples partying in close contact with others, flaunting the social distancing guidelines.”
And yet red states have 5-10 times less deaths that Blue ones.
Maybe C19 just hates democrats ?
“You see dumbass Republicans trying to put exemption from liability for failing to take reasonable preventative measures to control the spread of this plague into financial aid packages.”
Just reopen and forget the stupid aid packages. We have already wasted 2 trillion dollars on stupidity.
Stop this nonsense now.
“It is shocking to believe that anyone could oppose taking such a simple and important step to save lives.”
And that is part of the problem – to you EVERYTHING you wish to do – saves lives.
PPACA saved lives – and milions will die if it is repealed – but in fact mortality rates did not change at all.
We blew almost $2T on PPACA and gained nothing.
You add “saves lives” to everything you want to do. But you provide no evidence that you will, and the results demonstrate you have not.
So, try again, are you socially responsible….or am I responsible for you? Haha, make up my mind. Gov. doesn’t have to tell me what to do, I do what I believe is right! I guess you need a republican to hold your hand? Okay, take my hand and I’ll take you where you need to go, and I’ll tell you what to do when we get there. But if you ever think you’ve got the hang of this, let me know and the wheel is yours again. I take no delight in being your babysitter.
@Natacha- I stand corrected. If you wear a mask, burn some incense and chant anti-Trump slogans, it will ward off the evil spirits. Works every time. If it makes you feel better, go for it!
This is from the NEJM. Cracks me up when I see your comment:
Masks are not only tools, they are also talismans that may help increase health care workers’ perceived sense of safety, well-being, and trust in their hospitals. Although such reactions may not be strictly logical, we are all subject to fear and anxiety, especially during times of crisis. One might argue that fear and anxiety are better countered with data and education than with a marginally beneficial mask, particularly in light of the worldwide mask shortage, but it is difficult to get clinicians to hear this message in the heat of the current crisis.
BTB- I keep posting this regarding the uselessness of masks, and you have no reply:
Fauci: 60 Minutes: “People should not being walking around with masks”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLNBw7XCM4Q
Therefore you have zero credibility.
As to Covid 19, it does not exist as a separate virus (no-one has isolated it), but is rather a more intense form of flu (and flu kills many people every year, as do other respiratory infections).
1. It was isolated months ago.
2. It’s a coronavirus. Coronaviruses are one type of cold virus.
It is not mythology or an ethereal mirage, CNN is, in reality, the acronym for the Communist News Network. A defendant receives only one trial and one guilty verdict. CNN is guilty and CNN shall not be “rehabilitated” by the Deep Deep State of Global Communism no matter how many pandemics (i.e. “China Flu”) its headquarters in Beijing releases as political opposition in an election year. The defendant has been found guilty, the convict has been sentenced and this court is adjourned.
Your Honor, please allow me to introduce Exhibit A.
________________________________________
“This week, many of us praised Chris Wallace for correctly challenging President Donald Trump for misstating the position of Joe Biden on defunding the police.”
– Professor Turley
_______________
Barkan: “Can we agree that we can redirect some of the funding [from the police]?”
Biden: “Yes, absolutely”
– Townhall
This is from the New England Journal of Medicine. Did anyone see this reported in the MSM?
—————————-
In layman’s terms, wearing a mask usually doesn’t make any difference. But if you are scared and it makes you feel better, then go for it.
—————————–
‘We know that wearing a mask outside health care facilities offers little, if any, protection from infection. Public health authorities define a significant exposure to Covid-19 as face-to-face contact within 6 feet with a patient with symptomatic Covid-19 that is sustained for at least a few minutes (and some say more than 10 minutes or even 30 minutes). The chance of catching Covid-19 from a passing interaction in a public space is therefore minimal. In many cases, the desire for widespread masking is a reflexive reaction to anxiety over the pandemic.’
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2006372
Epstein, this is the last paragraph of your article:
Expanded masking protocols’ greatest contribution may be to reduce the transmission of anxiety, over and above whatever role they may play in reducing transmission of Covid-19. The potential value of universal masking in giving health care workers the confidence to absorb and implement the more foundational infection-prevention practices described above may be its greatest contribution.
@Seth- Excellent point.
In layman’s terms- Even healthcare workers aren’t thinking clearly because they are scared. The real value in getting people to wear masks in hospitals is that it might help health care workers get over their fear, even if it doesn’t make a lot of sense. Then we might get them to focus on the the things that really make a difference in preventing spread in the health care setting.
#Symbolic #Talisman #Perceived sense of safety #Not be strictly logical #Marginally beneficial #Intellectual honesty is not a core value
——————-
Here is the rest of the paragraph, for context.
‘It is also clear that masks serve symbolic roles. Masks are not only tools, they are also talismans that may help increase health care workers’ perceived sense of safety, well-being, and trust in their hospitals. Although such reactions may not be strictly logical, we are all subject to fear and anxiety, especially during times of crisis. One might argue that fear and anxiety are better countered with data and education than with a marginally beneficial mask, particularly in light of the worldwide mask shortage, but it is difficult to get clinicians to hear this message in the heat of the current crisis.
Expanded masking protocols’ greatest contribution may be to reduce the transmission of anxiety, over and above whatever role they may play in reducing transmission of Covid-19. THE POTENTIAL VALUE OF UNIVERSAL MASKING IN GIVING HEALTH CARE WORKERS THE CONFIDENCE TO ABSORB HE MORE FOUNDATIONAL INFECTION-PREVENTION PRACTICES DESCRIBED ABOVE MAY BE ITS GREATEST CONTRIBUTION.’
Epstein just explain why we could do better now by ‘not’ wearing masks. This pandemic isn’t going so well. It’s costing big money. Shouldn’t we just cooperate??
@Seth- The pandemic is going just fine for the progressive elites who decamped the City for their summer digs in the Hamptons, the Jersey Shore and the Hudson Valley. But its getting harder and harder to find a decent place. Costing big money alright. But if they can make it through November it will all be worth it.
I certainly agree that its not going well for everybody else. The elderly. The average age of Covid-19 deaths is 80. They make up 15% of the cases and 80% of the deaths. Over half of the deaths have been in nursing homes, disproportionately in the northeast. Young adults. If you’re under 50 you should be more worried about getting hit by lightning. Many lost their jobs, and if not that the opportunity to interact with their co-workers. Children. Lost a year of their education, maybe even two years, that they’ll never make up. The American Academy of Pediatrics tells us the that the burdens fall disproportionately on children of color who have more ground to make up anyway. The sick. The untold deaths that will be the inevitable result of deferred health care screening and treatment. How many women deferred their mammograms, either through fear or because they were forced to?
Sure, there are naysayers that create an atmosphere of fear. They can’t see past the mask on their face, or at least past the election in November. But as American’s we can do some amazing things. Like figuring out how to protect the elderly and vulnerable. Nursing home deaths are way down. Reconfiguring businesses to get their employees back to work- the innovation in businesses large and small is staggering. I never thought i’d say this, but take Elon Musk and Tesla. Amazing. Government functionaries tried to shut their factory down, but Tesla kept it going safely. SpaceX launched a manned rocket to send astronauts to the space station in the middle of a pandemic. Schools are reopening so children can get back to classrooms in the fall. Simple things, like offering kids and their parents a choice to return to the classroom, or if they’re not comfortable, to participate remotely. Plus a lot of other things that take immense degrees of vision, coordination, and planning.
Seth, you’re spot on, we should cooperate with the goal of getting this behind us. We’re in a terrible crisis and there’s no time to waste. Lives are being destroyed by the indefinite shutdown. It will be hard work but as Americans we can find solutions that get our country back to work, our kids back to school, and protect the sick and elderly. The sooner the better. Cooperation and a change of mindset are key.
One of hundreds of medical statements. The bottom line is that nobody really knows. In January nobody knew. Trump said he knew. Trump waited until into March before acting and he didn’t really act at all. And so on. The reason you wear a mask and practice social distancing is that nobody really knows and it can’t hurt. The ‘filtering’ out of chances of contracting the virus is a combination of ‘can’t hurts’. The biggest element in this entire pandemic is that there is only some knowledge and not all knowledge. In every case, however, when precautions were reduced, the level of contagion rose. Florida is a prime example. DeSantis delayed closing down the bars and beaches for Spring Break and the contagion grew. He opened up the bars and beaches early and the contagion rose again. You can cherry pick opinions but the statistics and human behavior is solid evidence from around the world. Off come the masks, up goes the contagion.
Correlation is not causation. “The bottom line is that nobody really knows.” Yes, we do. The masks do little, if anything.
@Isaac- Next time I’ll cite the scientists over at CNN, NBC, or the real experts over at Vox.
In most situations, wearing a mask doesn’t make any difference. Putting aside the fact that St. Anthony and the MSM told us that masks are actually dangerous because it was expedient for them to do so.
As the folks at NEJM point out, masks are perhaps most useful for their symbolic, talismanic value. Did you know that the definition of a talisman is an object that someone believes holds magical properties that provide particular power, energy, and specific benefit. Wonderful, but actually quite accurate.
Far more pernicious is the adoption of masks by the progressive left as a tool of social and political control.
Masks won’t protect you much. They might offer some protection to others if you are infected. Surgeons wear masks to protect their patients, not to protect themselves.
It’s very discouraging to see how politicized ‘news’ has become in this country. Not that there’s much of a difference between the policies of DJT and the DNC (Biden). But us independents hate liars and any visible attempts to manipulate our thoughts as much or more than the open corruption that has defined modern America.
Blackdawg7, we’ve never heard of you and I doubt you’re an ‘Independent’.
Seth, I don’t doubt you’re a democrat.
Bob I’m not a Bernie Bro and Republicans moved right of me more than 30 years ago.
The Republicans have actually moved in a more leftward direction. I don’t think you ever knew where you were on the political spectrum.
So you are.
Is anyone else wearied to death of the way everybody misuses the word science?
There’s no such thing as, “THE science.” It’s a process dammit. A methodology. A handful of steps. Observation, Hypothesis, Testing the Hypothesis, making a Conclusion, and repeat. It’s not a religion. It’s not whatever you stamp the word, “science,” on. It’s not the study that comes out afterwards – that’s just the conclusion, or still an early hypothesis because people are too lazy or ingenuous to actual fully test out all the variables. It’s not technology. It’s not Star Wars or some hokey light saber which doesn’t resemble either a saber or the properties of light. It’s not the drivel we hear on shows like Flash – which are not science-fiction – can’t even get that right anymore. All that garbage is techno-fantasy. Science is not a textbook or a magazine. And it’s not a computer simulation used in the absence of testing real world observations. And it’s certainly not some stupid graph that political and ideological operatives assembled using all the available tools of propaganda.
Third of a million people in this country who were taught non-science by people who were in turn taught non-science. And what have they learned? Nonsense.
All these people who don’t know what the hell science is, and they won’t shut up about what it is they don’t actually know.
Sick of it.
“Third of a million people in this country who were taught non-science by people who were in turn taught non-science”
******
Probably more than that.
I recall the Don Lemon thought the missing Malaysian jet might have gone into a black hole. An infobabe on cable news thought storms observed on Mars might have been caused by global warming on earth.
Remember that scientist Obama warned rising seas were going to destroy coastal properties, but to give him credit, that may only have been to drive down the price of the expensive coastal property he later bought.
Thanks, Young – “Third of a million” – you’re right, that’s a big typo – I guess I meant third of 300 million, should have just said third of the country.
Those examples you gave are pretty scary. Reminds me of Congressman Hank Johnson worrying that Guam would capsize if we stationed too many troops there, or Greta Thunberg’s belief that she can see carbon dioxide floating in the air – not to mention the rest of the nonsense that comes out of her mouth.
It’s scary because some of these people push policies or directly inform vast numbers of the populace, and they’re every bit as ignorant as the people they’re misinforming.
Schools don’t teach how to think scientifically anymore. If they did, people would automatically question things, not rabidly adopt and promote every single thing they hear.
Agreed. I have also been making the distinction between social and physical science. Physical science focuses on the ability to predict very specific and accurate outcomes of observed natural phenomena. Social science makes predictions on how a human population will react given a specific scenario and this is far less accurate than the physical sciences.
But both of these very different fields get lumped together as ‘science’ as if all of the fields and their practitioners have the same level of credibility. We trust our lives on the work of physical scientists each time we get in a car or airplane, take medicine, etc. The credibility of that field is exploited by those who routinely cannot predict how a population of humans will react in the near future. The great danger, as we have seen, is that the general public, and more importantly, our elected leaders, don’t necessarily understand this distinction.
A good rule of thumb is that any field that has the word science in its name isn’t. My field, computer science, enables science but is not itself a science. Social Science is not. Just a rule of thumb so not one hundred percent accurate.
LorenzoValla, and Old.George – good points! I don’t think most elected leaders even care to understand the distinction between science and dogma, and activitists – even if they did know, it’s not in their interest for the mass of voters to recognize the difference. “Science,” is just a useful label to slap on whatever quackery they happen to be peddling.
Yes, extremely. It’s no different than ‘racism’; the term has been co-opted by the profoundly ignorant to be interpreted only as they dictate. The governor in my state is one, and trust me, they are an idiot that only quotes verbatim the morning DNC memo.
The Real Story This Morning Was Trump’s Interview With Chris Wallace
An agitated President Trump offered a string of combative and often dubious assertions in an interview aired Sunday, defending his handling of the coronavirus with misleading evidence, attacking his own health experts, disputing polls showing him trailing in his re-election race and defending people who display the Confederate flag as victims of “cancel culture.”
The president’s remarks, delivered in an interview on “Fox News Sunday,” amounted to a contentious potpourri more commonly found on his Twitter feed and at his political rallies.
The difference this time was a vigorous attempt by the host, Chris Wallace, to fact-check him, leading to several clashes between the two on matters ranging from the coronavirus response to whether Mr. Trump would accept the results of the election should he lose.
The Coronavirus
The president made a litany of false claims about his administration’s handling of the virus, despite evidence that key officials and public health experts advising the president made crucial missteps and played down the spread of the disease this spring. In the interview, Mr. Trump falsely claimed that the United States had “one of the lowest mortality rates in the world” from the virus.
“That’s not true, sir,” Mr. Wallace said.
“Do you have the numbers, please?” Mr. Trump said. “Because I heard we had the best mortality rate.”
The United States has the eighth-worst fatality rate among reported coronavirus cases in the world, and the death rate per 100,000 people — 42.83 — ranks it third-worst, according to data on the countries most affected by the coronavirus compiled by Johns Hopkins University. Mr. Trump said that by increasing testing, his administration was “creating trouble for the fake news to come along and say, ‘Oh, we have more cases.’”
Mr. Trump falsely claimed that the coronavirus case rate in other countries was lower than in the United States because those nations did not engage in testing. When Mr. Wallace pointed out a low case rate across the European Union, the president suggested it was possible that those countries “don’t test.” And when Mr. Wallace pointed out that the death rate in the United States was rising, Mr. Trump replied by blaming China.
“Excuse me, it’s all too much, it shouldn’t be one case,” Mr. Trump said. “It came from China. They should’ve never let it escape. They should’ve never let it out. But it is what it is. Take a look at Europe, take a look at the numbers in Europe. And by the way, they’re having cases.”
Mr. Trump called Dr. Anthony S. Fauci, the nation’s top infectious disease expert, an “alarmist” who provided faulty information in the early days of the coronavirus pandemic.
“I don’t know that he’s a leaker,” Mr. Trump said during the interview. “He’s a little bit of an alarmist. That’s OK. A little bit of an alarmist.”
Mr. Trump said that Dr. Fauci had been against his decision to close the borders to travelers from China in January. That is misleading: While Dr. Fauci initially opposed the idea on the grounds that a ban would prevent medical professionals from traveling to hard-hit areas, he supported the decision by the time it was made.
Mr. Trump also said Dr. Fauci had been against Americans wearing masks. Dr. Fauci has said he does not regret urging Americans not to wear masks in the early days of the pandemic, citing a severe shortage of protective gear for medical professionals at the time.
Mr. Trump said he doubted whether Dr. Robert R. Redfield, the director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, was correct in predicting that the pandemic would be worse this fall. “I don’t know,” Mr. Trump said. “And I don’t think he knows.”
He said public health experts and the World Health Organization “got a lot wrong” early on, including a theory that the virus would abate as the weather warmed — one that Mr. Trump himself had promoted repeatedly. Then the president reiterated his earlier claim, unsupported by science, that the virus would suddenly cease one day. “It’s going to disappear, and I’ll be right,” Mr. Trump said. “Because I’ve been right probably more than anybody else.”
Edited From: “Trump Leans Into False Claims In Combative Fox News Interview”
Today’s New York Times
The US is doing better than Europe as a whole, and a number of European countries.
But the most critical fact is that there is no evidence at all that the polices of any country have had any bearing on the outcome.
That destroy’s Trump’s bragg than the US is doing better – but it also destroy’s the foundation of Wallaces question – that policy is relevant at all.
I would further note that it is trivial to find numbers that demonstrate that the US is doing incredibly well, just as it is possible to find numbers that say the opposite.
Trump is cherry picking when he claims we are doing fantastic. Wallace is doing the same when attacking.
Wallace has not successfully confronted Trump.
The whole line of questioning was stupid.
John needs to read a newspaper. The virus is uniquely surging here, while even Italy is showing very low numbers of new cases as are most of Europe and developed Asia. We lead the world in cases and new cases and are 8th in death rate.
“The virus is uniquely surging here”
What do you mean it is surging? During the worst time in NY the death rate was close to 2,000 per day. The biggest surge right now is in Florida and I think the last death rate was 84. Explain yourself with the numbers.
JT apparently only cares to fact check CNN, MSNBC, and NBC, as if the press secretary and her boss and Fox are fountains of the righteous truth instead of compulsive and documented liars.
Give me a break,
Book, JT covered “Meet The Press when the real story was Chris Wallace’s interview with Trump.
Check out my new expose on Yesterday’s column about the blog, “Res Ipsa Hits 43,000,0000”.
Saw that, and thanks.
This blog is mostly propaganda intended to stir up right wingers and get his hit count up.
Book, I actually set out to see how many oddball names there were. But the highlighted comments create a grim picture. That part surprised me more than expected.
“Saw that, and thanks.
This blog is mostly propaganda intended to stir up right wingers and get his hit count up.”
**********************
Great. Then thanks for helping out with your unlettered but amusing commentary.
If you have examples of errors by McEnany – raise them.
In fairness to the public, Comcast should officially change its name to Concast!
When Joe Biden says he wants to reallocate funds away from the police, that is the same as defunding the police from their current budgets. A reduction in budgeted funds is defunding.
Roy, when did Joe Biden say ‘”reallocate funds away from the police”. Show us a link or video clip.
Seth….here it is at 21 minutes…goes until 23 min 6 sec
Well done! See specifically 23:00-23:07.
Roy…👍
Cindy, thanks for finding this. At no point did Biden actually say “Defund the police” or “drastically cut their budgets”. Many police departments are unionized and Democrats have always sought the support of organized labor.
But with regards to mental health, it might be wise for cities, big cities especially, to have a department of mental health responders. And that’s a job that cops might be glad to load off-load.
A few years back I spent the day with a group of people that included a comedian who told an interesting story pertinent to this discussion. He had been suffering from depression and told his mother, by telephone, that he was considering suicide. His mother became understandably upset and called 911. Emergency dispatchers sent the police to said comedian’s home and essentially ‘arrested him’ for threatening suicide. He was then taken to the mental ward of a hospital where he was held for 48 hours during which he claims he was constantly sedated.
The point of this story is that Mental Health Responders might have done a better job of going to the comedian’s home to conduct an evaluation of his true mental state. Currently no city that I know of has such a force. But that might be a very logical force to have. And I honestly think that cops would prefer to have other professionals handle those assignments. We don’t want suicidally depressed individuals going violent when the cops show up.
This is just one example of how we could re-think public spending to keep police departments more focused on their their core missions.
Seth………you’re wrong.
Seth, you do not acknowledge that you were wrong. Biden does support redirecting funds away from the police, which is the same as defunding. In addition, there are those in his campaign (e.g. Sara Pearl) who have defamed the police and explicitly called for defunding. Biden does not support law and order, which is why the National Association of Police Organizations is now endorsing President Trump.
Roy, had Trump been seen as a credible leader this civil unrest may not have ever broken out. Or it might have been contained early on.
The Floyd killing was a test of Trump’s leadership. One he totally flunked! So suggesting that Trump is our only alternative to chaos is utterly ridiculous. Trump ‘is’ the leading source of chaos.
“Roy, had Trump been seen as a credible leader this civil unrest may not have ever broken out. Or it might have been contained early on.
The Floyd killing was a test of Trump’s leadership. One he totally flunked! So suggesting that Trump is our only alternative to chaos is utterly ridiculous. Trump ‘is’ the leading source of chaos.”
Apparently you are clueless about our government.
Trump does not run the mineapolis police department.
There is no federal general police power.
Though Trump repeatedly claims he is going to intervene locally – the president has extremely limited powers to do so.
The Floyd killing had nothing to do with Trump.
Trump is absolutely furious that he can do nothing about it.
But that is the facts, and the law and the constitution – which you are clearly ignorant.
Further Trump’s impotence to deal with Covid and Floyd actually proves false the biggest lie of the left.
Trump is not authoritarian. He may rant and rave, but he only acts within the constitution and the law.
I have no doubt he thinks he could do better than these mayors.
My dog could do better, that is not a high standard.
But he is not constitutionally allowed to.
And he is wisely staying within the constitution.
Would that any democrat ever did the same.
Would’ve been great if you would have held O-bottom to the same standard. Eric Holder for “Fast and Furious” which is responsible for deaths and trying to circumvent our rights. Hillary Clinton for Benghazi, which killed several. For those two cases, and others, it was the job of the Fed. gov. to have done differently. George Floyd’s case has NOTHING to do with the Fed. Gov. But since you are NEVER wrong, we know you are NOT serious. Everything in life is about Trump, even when it’s not. You are spoiled children who have been in tantrum-mode since Nov. of 2016, though the FBI and our Intelligence (?) agencies tried to overturn the election for you with a collusion delusion which you’ve been all too happy to accept. It’s time to go away and see your shame for what it is. You will likely be years in recovery over this, and God help us, if you get that reigns of power back.
Roy:
Well as Cindy and I like to point out, Seth is a consummate liar and reading him is like reading a fairy tale – literally.
@seth, Unions cannot stop layoffs. Democrats have never been friends to police or the military.
I don’t think you’ve ever walked a beat or driven a patrol vehicle in a sector. Here’s the scenario of the “mental health responder”. They either get their asses kicked by the perp, get held as hostage, they call for immediate police backup because the perp knows their scared shitless or worse get themselves and others in the household killed.
Your comedian was taken to a facility and given medication by a physician who was license to treat people in his state of mind. If there was a failure it wasn’t by police, it was by his family and friends not following up on his treatment.
You want to rethink public spending by creating a department of Mental Health Responders, great another layer of bureaucrats.
Hire more police and let them do their jobs keeping us all safe. Right now they’re being used and abused by the Dems and Marxist. I have yet to hear one Dem step up on behalf of the police.
Nah., Biden never said any of that!
And the internet does not exist.
https://twitter.com/mattmargolis/status/1284233343308005376?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1284233343308005376%7Ctwgr%5E&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fpjmedia.com%2Felection%2Fmatt-margolis%2F2020%2F07%2F17%2Fchris-wallace-is-wrong-joe-biden-does-want-to-defund-the-police-n659844
‘Cindy, thanks for finding this. At no point did Biden actually say “Defund the police” or “drastically cut their budgets”.’
The question was posed to Biden by explaining in the same way that many others (but not necessarily BLM themselves) have articulated “Defund the Police” to mean a dramatic restructuring of the police so that 911 calls are responded to quite differently. Biden enthusiastically agreed with this.
Additionally, the questioner used the police response to Rayshard Brooks as an example of how a future restructuring might look. He asked Biden if he thought that instead of sending 2 armed policemen to deal with someone sleeping in their car in a drive through lane, if it wouldn’t make more sense instead to send a social worker and a tow truck. Biden readily agreed.
If you’re not going to send the police on routine 911 calls and you’re using the police funding to pay for that alternative, you are defunding the police. That’s how math works.
What you’re trying to argue is that somehow Biden wants to keep the police funding the same, while creating a new organization to deal with crime. This would result in the police force remaining intact while not having a lot to do because social workers and tow truck drivers are responding to 911 calls.
Either he wants to defund the police or he wants to keep them funded but not use them.
If you are not going to arrest people – with police, who violate the law – then do not pass laws making what they are doing a crime.
It is that simple. Do not send a social worker to deal with a crime.
If you felt something was worth making a crime – then you arrest people who do it.
If not, then change the law.
Drunk Driving is either a crime or it is not.
If you send a social worker and a tow truck – it is not a crime.
One of the purposes of making things crimes is deterence.
Social workers and Tow trucks do not deter people.
I would personally prefer if we greatly reduced the number of crimes we have created.
But we do that by changing the law – not sending social workers and tow trucks.
I get what you’re saying, but no one necessarily knows if a crime has been committed until the police arrive. In my mind, that makes it even more important for the police to arrive first and then possibly hand it off to other experts if no crime has been committed. I’m assuming that happens a lot already.
So you want to send social workers into potentially dangerous situations to investigate ?
I will absolutely agree that we should reduce the number of crimes that we have created.
I would not start with drunk driving.
“So you want to send social workers into potentially dangerous situations to investigate ?”
Why would you ask that when I just wrote this:
“important for the police to arrive first and then possibly hand it off to other experts if no crime has been committed”
I would absolutely remove traffic enforcement from police.
Create a new entity – sort of like meter maids. Whose sole job is to enforce traffic laws.
Do not give them guns. Do not give them arrest powers.
They can issue traffic citations and that is it.
If they need more they can call in a police officer.
Traffic stops are some of the most dangerous and stressful for cops.
A major part of the reason that Traffic stops are stressful is because they are overloaded to be used as an anti-crime tool.
Motorists who are stopped purely for traffic violations and know it are highly unlikely to be dangerous.
Traffic stops go sideways because both the cop and the person stopped KNOW that the stop is about more than speeding or running a stop sign.
“A major part of the reason that Traffic stops are stressful is because they are overloaded to be used as an anti-crime tool.
Motorists who are stopped purely for traffic violations and know it are highly unlikely to be dangerous.
Traffic stops go sideways because both the cop and the person stopped KNOW that the stop is about more than speeding or running a stop sign.
”
————————
Evidence?
The DNBC: The Cult of Chucky
When President Trump is re-elected in November they (MSM) will make the last 4 years coverage of the President look like a pro Trump rally.
I began following your blog after seeing you during the impeachment hearings and I have become a daily reader. I am retired from GE and have sent notes through internal GE mail to Chuck before I retired about some concerns I had years ago. However, in the last year I stopped watching Meet the Press after years of following it because of what Chuck has become (or that he has returned to his early years working on democratic campaigns}. Anyhow, I again wasn’t watching today, but appreciated your article and sent NBC/chuck an email with my thoughts and a link to your post. I would encourage others to do the same to let them know we are troubled by skewed reporting it has taken on.
gene
I don’t understand how we can look at charging Adam Rhuba an american citizen for making fake comments that turn out to be hoaxes but large media corporations continue to make fake comments to deceive the american public in influencing a presidential election and get away with it. Something has to change.
If Rhuba, and your choice of reporters, will include the biggest liar, buffoon, blithering idiot, and fake of all Trump, you have my support.
If you are going to defame another person, the obligation is on you to PROVE your case.
Politicians Bragg and exagerate, they also make predictions that do not come true.
If Trump is a liar, a buffon, and a blittering idiot – what does that make Biden ? Obama ?
When your judgement is not completely colored by your ideology you remarks might be interesting.
See Exclusive Expose on “Res Ipsa Hits 43,000,000
Peter – where is this expose?
Right where it says: yesterday’s column about the blog.