“Opus Dei, Anyone?”: Laurence Tribe Raises Barr’s Religious Beliefs In Latest Diatribe [Updated]

Many of us criticized statements attributed to Attorney General Bill Barr this week calling for the use of sedition laws against rioters. However, instead of raising constitutional or statutory objections, Harvard Professor Laurence Tribe instead raised Barr’s Catholic faith in a completely unwarranted and unfounded tweet. The response to the reference was total silence. Not a single professor at Harvard or elsewhere chastised the use of a person’s religion in such commentary. This is not the first profane or prejudiced statement by Tribe.

Attorney General William Barr reportedly told federal prosecutors to move aggressively against rioters. That is nothing new. However, the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal reported that Barr urged prosecutors to seek federal charges that included sedition laws designed for those who conspire to overthrow the U.S. government. The WSJ article stated “[Barr] encouraged the prosecutors to seek a number federal charges, including under a rarely used sedition law, even when state charges could apply, the people said.” (A U.S. Attorney has come out against allegations in the NYT article, including the allegation that Barr wanted the Seattle mayor criminally charged).

I have handled cases raising sedition or treason allegations as criminal defense counsel. It is entirely inappropriate and abusive to treat such protests as a form of sedition. It would not only fail in most such cases but it would return the Justice Department to a dark period of the use of such laws against forms of political dissent. There are ample criminal laws to address rioters. There is no reason to use sedition laws to combat rioting. I also believe that Barr’s escalating rhetoric is undermining the role of the Justice Department in addressing both the protests and the upcoming election.

Tribe however was not content with calling out Barr on a legal basis. He introduced his presumed religious beliefs: “It’s way beyond monarchical. It’s paranoid and dictatorial. Opus Dei, anyone?” It is like someone disagreeing with Alan Dershowitz and noting that he is a Jew or incorrectly referring to Kabbalah.

 

We have often discussed how conservatives have faced national condemnations and campaigns to be fired for dissenting views, often being labeled as “racists” for questioning aspects of the current protests or underlying claims. However, there is a conspicuous silence in the media when liberal academics engage in false or outrageous comments.

The level of intolerance in Tribe’s remarks is breathtaking.  Making this even more outrageous is that Barr is not Opus Dei, as discussed last weekend in the Washington Post. He is a deeply religious Catholic.  As Tom Hamburger wrote in the Post, Barr has shown tolerance for opposing values, including supporting a friend’s same-sex marriage.

None of that matters, of course.  Raising the religion of Barr is an exercise of raw religious intolerance and prejudice.  Yet, no one called out Tribe because such concerns are rarely acknowledged when the targets are on the right.

This type of personal assault has become a type of signature for Tribe, who regularly engaged in juvenile and vulgar attacks on those who hold opposing legal views. Yet, the media ignores these unhinged attacks and continues to cite Tribe in his continual criticism of Trump.  Tribe has called Trump a “terrorist” and supported a long litany of highly dubious criminal theories. Tribe called Senator Mitch McConnell a “flagrant dickhead!” and loves to use Trump-like insults like “McTurtle” to refer to the Senator. Tribe thrills his followers by referring to Trump as a “Dick” or “dickhead in chief.” (I have also been the subject of such vulgar attacks for holding legal views different from Tribe’s). Such slurs and invectives are all ignored. Indeed, the only time Tribe generated a modicum of criticism from the left was when he referred to the selection of an African Americans like Kamala Harris for Vice President as a merely “cosmetic” choice.  Rather than being the target of a petition campaign like so many conservative professors, Tribe simply moved on by renewing his personal attacks on anyone with views that might support Trump.

I could not find a single liberal commentator or professor who objected to Tribe attacking Barr for his wrongly presumed religious views.  Professors lined up to (legitimately) criticize Trump for references to the Muslim faith of critics. Yet, there is no apparent problem in raising a Catholic’s faith in a put down.

The reason for the reference in this tweet is obvious and obnoxious. Calling Barr Opus Dei is like calling a Muslim lawyer a “Wahhabi” with a connotation of dangerous extremism.  Putting aside that Barr is not Opus Dei, his following the movement would have nothing at all to do with using Sedition Law. Tribe’s religious intolerance is only matched by his religious ignorance. Opus Dei followers are not inherently supportive of authoritarianism. Followers believe in more strict adherence to church teachings like more conservative groups in other major religions. The use of “Opus Dei” as a type of sinister cult reference is a stereotype that circulates on the Internet, often on anti-Catholic sites.

Over the years, I have praised Tribe and even did so when raising an honest concern over his growing intolerant and hateful attacks. At a time of rising intolerance and violence, academics have an added responsibility in reinforcing basic values of civility and decency in our debates. It is possible to hold opposing views of constitutional principles without engaging in personal, let alone prejudicial, attacks. It is the abandonment of the core principles of academic discourse, dispensing with substantive dialogue in favor of profane or prejudiced diatribes.

 

 

178 thoughts on ““Opus Dei, Anyone?”: Laurence Tribe Raises Barr’s Religious Beliefs In Latest Diatribe [Updated]”

  1. Karl Marx and his minions, such as the subject of this article, are mortal enemies of the Constitution and America.

    Why are they allowed to persist in America?

    Why is America even having this discussion?

    Did Patton nonchalantly discuss the nomenclature and characteristics of Panzers?

    Is not the treatment for malignant cancer excision?

    1. George, here’s your answer

      Marxism is appreciated for the insight it gives into history
      Marxism also gives insight into social conflict and power dynamics between classes
      Marxism has been “informing’ the progressive agenda since the 1848 Manifesto. Take a look, it’s obvious. I am sure you have.

      Ironically, international capitalist financiers, like Geo Soros, a modern day Jacob Schiff who underwrote the revolutionary regimes that displaces the Tsar, Soros thinks he is advancing history to some utopian thing he has in mind for us all. He believes that he is using the tools of class conflict to do so. This is a matter of pride and vainglory for him, to tinker with societies. His own ample interviews and writings make this obvious, They are out there easy to find.

      He is fabulously rich so he doesn’t really care about its potential effect on him. he is above it like the billionaire Armand Hammer was above it and could run his factories in the USSR no problem. guys like this can buy off street thugs and governments alike. and they do. i am sure Soros has his friends in the “deep state,”

      so there you have it. you should know Marxism at least in its Trotskyite form, is almost political orthodoxy in American universities. I think you do know that.

  2. Sedition charges are not the right way to go. US failed miserably in its last big sedition case against “racists” in the 1986 Fort Smith Sedition trial., Acquittals all around.

    RICO is the way to go to prosecute the BLM / ANTIFA protection rackets and riot and arson conspiracies and to strip assets from these corrupt organizations. And, possibly, their billionaire bosses.

    This I offer as a humble word of free advice to AG BARR

    1. Kurtz– That sounds like a surer approach. Mostly what we see in restoring law to the streets is a lot of hats and no cowboys.

      1. sedition is very hard to prove in court and generating reasonable doubt is pretty easy if you look at it from an objective trial lawyer viewpoint.

        the Fort smith defendants were all acting pro se if I recall correctly and they won against federal prosecutors with a deep budget and impressive array of circumstantial facts.

        The prosecutors failed to deliver, however, on proof of at least one essential element. I have studied the case transcripts and reviewed the evidence presented in close detail.
        I am one of the few lawyers outside the case who has done so I suspect. The case happened before I ever got a license but I did have occasion to look into it in close detail, long after it happened.

        I would be tempted to share more insights but I feel I would be casting the proverbial pearls here before swine, so I will not.

  3. Sedition charges require proof of efforts to overthrow the United States Government.

    Of course sedition charges require proof. Tribe’s attack on Barr’s religion however, instead of an attack on the legal merits of a sedition charge, reflects Tribe’s understanding that Barr is on a solid legal foundation. If Barr wants his justice department to pursue sedition charges, then it’s reasonable to consider Barr believes he has evidence that would support the charges. Given what evidence is already publicly available, Barr and his Justice Department doesn’t need to pull a Schiff and conjure up hypothetical crimes. It takes no imagination to see there is coordination behind the anarchy. If sedition charges are an overreach, discovery and trial should ferret that out. Why Tribe chooses to attack Barr personally and not legally is a tell not to be ignored.

  4. Dan Coats in today’s NYTs:

    “……I propose that Congress creates a new mechanism to help accomplish this purpose. It should create a supremely high-level bipartisan and nonpartisan commission to oversee the election. This commission would not circumvent existing electoral reporting systems or those that tabulate, evaluate or certify the results. But it would monitor those mechanisms and confirm for the public that the laws and regulations governing them have been scrupulously and expeditiously followed — or that violations have been exposed and dealt with — without political prejudice and without regard to political interests of either party.

    Also, this commission would be responsible for monitoring those forces that seek to harm our electoral system through interference, fraud, disinformation or other distortions. These would be exposed to the American people in a timely manner and referred to appropriate law enforcement agencies and national security entities.

    Such a commission must be composed of national leaders personally committed — by oath — to put partisan politics aside even in the midst of an electoral contest of such importance. They would accept as a personal moral responsibility to put the integrity and fairness of the election process above everything else, making public reassurance their goal….”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/17/opinion/2020-election-voting.html#click=https://t.co/A3Lm3dUzi1

    FBI Director Wray before Congress today:

    “Russia is seeking to hurt Democrat Joe Biden’s presidential campaign through social media and influence operations, FBI Director Christopher Wray warned Thursday.

    Moscow is carrying out efforts to sow discord in the U.S. “primarily to denigrate Vice President Biden and what the Russians see as an anti-Russia establishment,” Wray told lawmakers during a House Homeland Security Committee hearing on threats to the nation.

    “Russia continues to try to influence our elections, primarily through what we call malign foreign influence,” Wray said. It’s an assessment sharply at odds with that of President Donald Trump, who still dismisses as a hoax the intelligence community’s finding that Russia worked to help him win the White House in 2016….”

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-09-17/wray-warns-of-ample-opportunity-for-foreign-election-meddling

  5. Yet another sad attempt by Turley to normalize Trump, and now, his fixer. Here’s the thing, Turley: Trump is an anomaly and will never be viewed as legitimate by history. This is because he cheated his way into our White House with the help of a hostile foreign government that conspired with his campaign which directed Russians on the best places to spread lies about his opponent that could swing the Electoral College. She still managed to receive more popular votes than he did. Cheating and lying, especially to acquire power, are un-American. Since occupying our White House, he has trashed the economy, stomped on our allies, cozied up to dictators, tried to leverage aid to Ukraine in exchange for false accusations against Joe Biden, and lied to the American people about the dangers of the pandemic. Almost 200,000 Americans have died, and about 6.6 millions were sickened, and most of this fallout is because of Trump’s decision to try to pretend there isn’t a pandemic because he thought he could lie and bully his way through the pandemic. Instead, he exposes just how dangerous it is to allow a sociopathic narcissist the power of the presidency. Yesterday, he dressed down Dr. Redfield because he said there wouldn’t be a vaccine widely available until next year, at least. Trump is going to force the FDA to say there is a safe and effective vaccine just in time for the election, even though there has not been enough time for testing, and everyone, including Trumpsters, know this, and don’t trust him. The majority of Americans will not accept a vaccine while Trump is in office because Trump has politicized the CDC and FDA. Everything, including public health, is all about him. Every minute he spends the same White House formerly occupied by men like Lincoln, JFK and FDR, pretending to be legitimate, is wrongful. Treating Trump like he deserves the respect and dignity of the office is wrong. He doesn’t belong there. He’ is hurting us.

    He knows that he needs Evangelicals to stay in power, so he has hypocrites like Mikey Pence and Billy Barr, both of whom wear their religion on their sleeves, to help sucker them in. Barr also is an anomaly and has sacrificed his soul and reputation to serve as Trump’s personal fixer, ignoring his oath to the American people. So, if you’re going to make religion part of your persona to help hook the Evangelicals, and you politicize the office of the Attorney General like Barr has, you can hardly complain when you get called out for being a hypocrite. Barr made his religion an issue, and the phony “sedition” charges are nothing more than Barr trying to chill Americans’ right to protest. Protesting police brutality is not sedition, and Barr knows that, but Trump is the one running the DOJ now, and his priority is to go after his enemies, just like the baseless investigation into the origins of the Mueller investigation (one DOJ lawyer has already quit because Barr has already pre-ordained the outcome) and to pretend that he is “Mr. Law and Order’. Pointing out that Barr can’t have it both ways–pretend to be a devout Catholic, but ignore his oath to the Constitution so as to serve as the fixer for the most incompetent, unfit, racist, misogynist, xenophobic and anti-Islam person ever to occupy the White House–is not religious intolerance or prejudice. It is calling out a hypocrite.

    1. So, basically, 4 years later, Natacha and too many other Democrats still have not accepted the lawful outcome of the 2016 election. They wish the rules were retroactively changed so they could have won.

      Hypocritically, Democrats have been circulating conspiracy theories that Republicans might not accept the results of the 2020 election, making them the butt of many jokes.

      1. Hillary Clinton won the popular vote by 3 million votes. She lost the Electoral College because Trump’s campaign fed internal poling information to Russians who told lies about her on social media accounts in key districts in certain states where the vote was close enough that the lies could make a difference. This was a very strategic, targeted campaign to deny the American people their choice of President. These are proven facts, and this is called cheating. It is anti-democratic and un-American. Trump’s presence in the White House is wrongful, and he proves, every single day, that the will of the American people was right–he doesn’t belong there.

        And, please explain to me why Americans should “accept” Trump, or accept the fact that he cheated to get the power and attention his narcissism requires. Why is it acceptable to you disciples of Trump that he constantly lies, that he doesn’t care about anyone other than himself, that he has singlehandedly destroyed the booming economy left to him by Obama and Biden, that almost 200,000 Americans have died and 6.6+ million have been sickened, mostly due to his attempts to pretend there wasn’t any pandemic? It is the blind acceptance of such blatant unfitness for office that causes me not to respect people like you. How are these things acceptable?

        1. three and a half years of LIES from natcha that Trump won because of “Russians” and yet here we are again

          THE CHUTZPAH is very impressive of these democrat cheerleaders, the way they stick to their lies with audacity and repeat them tirelessly

          this of course is a well known method from the mind-control wizards of advertising. repeat REPEAT REPEAT and eventually weak brains will accept the lies as true

  6. How long will the denial exist that Democrats have a problem?

    This is how they treat a conservative black woman who has run off the Democrat plantation. White protestors screamed at her, blew whistles, screamed on megaphones, and threw their water on her. Those are the activists who do more than bang on keyboards in a rage.

    What happens online? Go through your own social media feed, or review online comments. What do Democrats have to say about a black woman who speaks her mind and holds conservative opinions? Is the attitude that they don’t agree with her, but would fight for her right to speak? What is the mainstream Democrat attitude towards Republican women like Candace Owens? Anne Coulter? Sarah Palin? Ever notice the racism and misogyny? It’s never a debate about policy. They go right for the jugular with ad hominem or even outright physical threats.

    The culture is crumbling.

    If conservatives fail to communicate with swing voters what they stand for, and why their policies are better, then they relegate the masses to the Democrat propaganda that passes for news. The youngest generation of adults were out there screaming at a petite black woman because they’ve been brain washed that Republicans are evil. That happened because conservatives stood by and did nothing, as the public education system evolved into a Democrat madrassa. As they looked the other way as propaganda against conservatives proliferated in journalism. Is it too late to fight the propaganda now? The country is pretty far gone if young white Democrats thought it was a grand idea to attack a small black woman in a restaurant because of her conservative opinions.

    1. Karen, some Democrats and some Republicans and some independents are misogynists; others aren’t. Some Democrats and some Republicans and some independents are racists; others aren’t. My guess is that if you look at the distribution, you’ll find more misogynists and racists among Republicans than among Democrats. Trump is among the Republican misogynists and racists. He regularly mistreats reporters and politicians who are women and/or people of color, saying things about them that he tends not to say about white men / acting towards them in ways he tends not to act towards white men.

      Meanwhile, yet another woman has accused Trump of sexual assault (and had told people about it contemporaneously):
      https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/sep/17/donald-trump-accused-of-sexual-assault-by-former-model-amy-dorris

      Recall that Trump has admitted to the kind of behavior she’s describing: “You know I’m automatically attracted to beautiful — I just start kissing them. It’s like a magnet. I just kiss. I don’t even wait.”

      Over two dozen women have accused Trump of various forms of harassment, assault, even rape.

      Trump is a misogynist and a racist. Why do you support him?

      1. Try as the left might using Karen as a pejorative shows how shallow they are. Karen is of Danish origin and means “PURE” . Shows how they apparently are not.

        1. George: I refer to you as “George” because you post under the name “George,” and I referred to her as “Karen” because she posts under the name “Karen.”

        2. “Karen” is a perjorative coined by Millennials and later generations to describe a middle aged woman of self-perceived privilege who believes herself to be superior to employees, servers, and especially blacks, and who is someone always running to the manager of a government agency, restaurant or store to bitterly complain about poor service. The male version is a “Brad” or a “Kevin”. There is even a Halloween mask this year for “Karen”. Look it up.

          1. Natacha – are you promoting the misogyny in the current trend of silencing or mocking women based on using a woman’s name as a pejorative?

            How typical.

            1. Question– So is Natcha a Karen by her own definition?

              And: ” Karen” is a perjorative coined by Millennials”.

              Does anyone care what Millenials think?

            2. I merely pointed out the origin and meaning of this word. And, no, using the “Karen” perjorative is not misogynistic because it is a basket term for a certain type of person whose behavior and attitudes Millennials find obnoxious. They have a corollary word for the male version, too: “Kevin” or “Brad”.

      2. CTHD:

        “Karen, some Democrats and some Republicans and some independents are misogynists; others aren’t. Some Democrats and some Republicans and some independents are racists; others aren’t. My guess is that if you look at the distribution, you’ll find more misogynists and racists among Republicans than among Democrats.”

        I agree with the first part of your statement, wholeheartedly. Of course not all Democrats are racists and misogynists. However, the trend has been in normalizing bad behavior, as long as it comes from a Democrat.

        If a Republican mob had congregate on a diminutive Liberal black commentator, threw water in her face, and screamed at her with a bullhorn, in a blatant attempt to frighten her into submission, there would be mass riots and mobs. It would STILL be playing on the mainstream media. But this is what conservatives, especially black conservatives, have come to expect.

        Don’t believe me? Well, look up Turley’s article on the harassment of conservative students and invited conservative speakers on college campuses across America.

        Look at the mainstreaming of racist slurs like “Uncle Tom” or “Step’n Fetchit” for black conservatives. This isn’t some loon at a subway. We all hear these words on the mainstream media. All across Social Media. And there is no nationwide backlash when a prominent figure uses such language.

        I could believe accusations that Trump kissed a woman in welcome. Inappropriate, yes, but I don’t consider that rape. I have been kissed by a stranger, without my permission, at an island event. Let’s just say that he learned not to do that again.

        Want me to post all the photos of Biden kissing women? Or burying his nose in their hair? Massaging women’s shoulders from behind? The agonized expressions of the little girls he’s groped? Biden is definitely sleepy in public. But I never did hear evidence that convinced me he’d raped anyone. The same problem arose with him as with others. When women wait decades before coming forward, evidence of rape is lost. Accusations must be proven, or else political warfare of accusations is encouraged.

        What I find so interesting is that up to last year, Democrats claimed that Trump voters were supportive of every single flaw he had – his divorces, infidelity, and all those Tweets. Those darn Tweets. They denied it possible that you vote for policy. You vote to prevent the problems you believe would arise if the other side won. Imagine all the riots, worse. Dems certainly encouraged lawlessness this year. And then 2020 rolled around. And here came Joe Biden. He wrote letters opposing desegregating schools, claiming he did not want his sons to attend a “racial jungle.” His words. He was shocked that African Americans could produce someone so well dressed, well put together, and articulate as Obama. He said Obama would be bringing him coffee if the election had been just a few years before. He went before an African American crowd and claimed that Republicans would “put y’all back in chains.” Not only did he find a drawl, but he accused Republicans of wanting to enslave blacks. That was in the past. Did he evolve? He recently said that unlike the African American community, Latinos were diverse. He told a black interviewer that if you don’t vote for Biden, you “ain’t black.”

        There are so may more racially tinged gaffs or Freudian slips. No wonder the man won’t speak without a teleprompter, or an iPad with aids feeding him answers to simple questions.

        And just like that, Democrats suddenly concluded that you vote for policy, for the administration as a whole, and to oppose the other side, and NOT for every single flaw of the candidate.

        Amazing, the difference a few months can make in perspective.

    2. Karen: you are not a conservative- you are a Trump disciple who tunes into Fox News for daily affirmation. Fox tells you that you and Trump are conservatives, but that’s not true. Please read the writings of George F. Will or Rick Wilson, or listen to interviews with Michael Steele, former RNC chair or Steve Schmitt, who are conservatives, and who can explain the difference between Trump disciples and conservatives. They will also explain to you how Trump has trashed everything conservatives stand for, which why they are opposed to him. You can’t be a Trump supporter and a true conservative.

      1. Im not interested in conserving the record of failure and plutocratic boot licking that characterized a lot of Republicans before Trump that’s for sure

        we are forward looking at this time, oriented to the future. you can feel free to champion the silk stocking incompetents of the past Natch and of course you would because you are a Democrat cheerleader and like those incompetents to face instead of the great and successful Donald J Trump

      2. Natacha:

        “Karen: you are not a conservative- you are a Trump disciple who tunes into Fox News for daily affirmation.” Well, gee, Nat. That is very interesting that you believe you know my thoughts and beliefs better than I do. You certainly cannot be contravened, as you have the superpower of divination and telepathy. Or at least, you think you do. Best to let delusions lie and not challenge the sufferer, so as not to upset them.

        At the risk of jeopardizing the psychic bond you believe we share, I will say, however, that you seem terrible confused on what “disciple” means. I regularly criticize Trump when I believe him to be wrong. You might want to check the OED on that. Trump has been so busy in your mind if you believe he’s trashed everything conservatives stand for. That’s hyperbole, unless you actually believe it.

        The people who are trashing what conservatives believe in are the Democrats promoting racism against whites, identity politics which judges people based on race and gender, anti-cop bigotry, defunding police, pretending riots are protests, telling cops to stand down while rioters seize city blocks, burn down police precincts, and attack federal buildings. Or even drag people from their car and beat them if they’re white.

        Those people are “literally” trashing what we believe in.

      3. BTW: just last evening, Steve Schmitt identified “character” as one main trait for a conservative and explained why Trump and Pence’s lack of character proves they aren’t conservatives. They both lie constantly. Neither is patriotic or altruistic.

  7. Wow… the HYPOCRISY is staggering! It seems that the most elevated social moires are DIPPING INTO THE GUTTER!!! My goodness! We are seeing such accute cases of TDS in some very exposed and COMMITTED LIBERALS. Are they going to blame this on COVID19 or do their EGOS DICTATE they blame it on SOMETHING which has more political value??? —gotta get that sound byte with them saying it is “Trump’s fault.” Give me a break! I can see through the liberal media’s collusion as if they produced my glasses. I am not confused as to why average Citizens in our Country are now more armed than ever! Urban Chaos and Unrest is being paid for in Crisp, New $50 Bills by young men on “holiday” who are staying in boutique hotels. I have witnessed their operation while riding in an elevator to the 12th floor of the Omni Hotel in Los Angeles on September 1st!

  8. What haven’t Liberals normalized?

    Religious bigotry
    Racist slurs against minority conservatives
    Misogyny against conservative women
    Pressuring minorities to vote Democrat (if you don’t vote for Biden, “you ain’t black.)
    Racial segregation – dorms, graduations, hobby groups like hiking, birding, etc
    Prejudice against law enforcement
    Defunding law enforcement which encourages crime
    Lauding criminals who assault police officers, and are harmed or killed in the process
    Propaganda, like claiming cops shot an unarmed black man in the back in front of his kids, conveniently leaving out the part where they were called for domestic abuse. He was terrorizing the very woman who had filed sexual assault charges, had a knife, fought with cops, refused to comply, and threw open a car door with children inside.

    Where ya’ll’s pointy hats? Did they go out of fashion? Seriously, not much has changed in the Democrat party.

    This will only change when there is a revolt of moderate Democrats. I know you are out there, and this makes you sick. So do something about it. Stop rubber stamp voting for this.

  9. “It is entirely inappropriate and abusive to treat such protests as a form of sedition.” I would agree as it applies to peaceful protestors, or those who do sit- or lie-ins blocks roads.

    However, what about rioters who seize entire city blocks (CHOP)? 2 people were shot, and they could not receive medical help because of what can only be called an insurrection. They even wrote signs that they had seceded from the country. What about the rioters who burned police precincts and attacked federal buildings? Are they not trying to overthrow government, usher in anarchy, and assault law enforcement?

    There is definitely a debate to be had on the merits of sedition charges, or if there are others that are sufficiently severe. My concern is that true rioters trying to bring down law and order, leading to the rise of murder and assault, might be treated merely as protestors exercising their First Amendment Rights.

    I just want the crimes of true rioters burning police precincts to be treated with the severity it deserves, following the law, of course.

    1. Karen: whose watch did these things happen on? Did any of these things happen on Obama/Biden’s watch? Does the Church of Trump (Fox News) or its pastor (Elder Hannity) cover the reasons why people are upset and protesting, or the changes they are demanding? Think real hard, now. When were the last actual “riots”? Did you know that there were calls to use noise cannons and heat rays to clear peaceful protesters out of the way for your Exalted Leader to walk through Lafayette Park to pose with an upside-down Bible? Is that OK with you? Do you not see that Fox harps on the riots in order to avoid the inconvenient truth about the deaths and suffering, including physical, emotional and economic, caused by Trump’s massive ego?

      The Ebola potential pandemic happened on Obama/Biden’s watch. How many Americans were sickened or died? What was done to check the spread? How about other flu epidemics when Biden and Obama were in office? Was it necessary to close schools and businesses then? Did Pastor Hannity tell you that in order to prepare for the predicted pandemic that was expected, a playbook for what to do was created, which Trump totally ignored? Did you hear him lie and try to deny that he downplayed the pandemic (using his own words) at that Pennsylvania town hall and when interviewed by George Stephanopolous? Tell me, do you think that the actions of those (very) few rioters who did property damage were worse for America overall than Trump lying and downplaying the pandemic, which has resulted in almost 200,000 deaths and 6.6 million Americans sickened by the virus? Now Americans can’t trust the CDC or the FDA and most won’t accept a vaccine until he’s gone from office because Trump is bullying these agencies for emergency approval before of the election, thinking people won’t see what’s happening. Do you have any idea how many bad things will result from the mistrust of Americans for their health agencies because Trump has politicized everything for his own glory?

      1. Sure, these things happened on Obama’s watch.

        Riots in Ferguson because they mistakenly believed a cop shot an innocent black man with his hands up. Eric Holder’s DOJ found Michael Brown had tried to get the cop’s gun, had gunpowder residue on his hand from making it go off, and was charging the cop when he was shot.

        Baltimore riots – over Freddie Gray. Again, people rioted premature to investigating. Cops and driver were cleared.

        Trayvon Martin, the gold grilled gun toting guy whom would look like Obama’s own son if he had one. People rioted because they believed a white guy stalked a young black kid, who was just out getting tea and Skittles, because he was black. Turns out George Zimmerman was Latino, and was on the phone with 911 while trailing Martin. He thought a guy out walking at night was suspicious in light of break-ins. Martin circled around, jumped Zimmerman, and was in the process of bashing his head into a curb when Zimmerman fatally shot him. Zimmerman was over zealous as a neighborhood watchman, but there was never any racist motive proven. And Martin was not stalked and shot. He was the aggressor. In general, bashing a man’s skull into a curb is either murder, or attempted murder.

        So, yeah, this kind of thing happened with some regularity under Obama. This occurred mainly because the mob refused to investigate allegations before protesting or becoming violent. Or let the justice system take its course. Democrat politicians fan this narrative that each incident is definitely racist, in order to create a crisis they can “solve.”

        That’s the same problem today.

        I have asked you many times what you think Trump could have done to prevent Covid either coming here, or spreading. You have not answered that I am aware of.

        The CDC flubbed getting a rapid, accurate field test. Trump allowed private industry to get a test, but the delay occurred. The virus had free rein to travel for all those months China kept it secret. This secrecy allowed China to buy up the world’s supply of medical supplies, like masks, and to take over foreign mask production companies operating in China.

        Private industry ramped up mask production. We ramped up ventilator production. We ramped up vaccine research and treatment trials.

        Meanwhile, states were in charge of shutdowns.

        And through it all, Americans young and old, Republican and Democrat alike, refused to maintain social distance. They gathered with family and friends. Protested, and Dems rioted. They refused to take personal responsibility, limit social interactions, and keep 6 feet away whenever possible. Young people, especially, refused to curb their social activity or even wear a mask.

        So what do you think Trump could have done about this? Take power away from the states and drag non compliant people from their homes?

        Meanwhile, around the world, Covid-19 has burned. Many countries have been found to be inaccurate, and underreported numbers. Mexico has run out of death certificates, casting doubt on its own Covid reporting. Peru burned bodies in the street. Europe has seen increases.

        New Zealand, as an island, was better able to shut is borders. And I do mean with a clang. It did a fantastic job of contact tracing, a paradigm that we are a bit constitutionally prevented from enforcing here. Even so, people arrived at the country, disobeyed quarantine orders, and started a little outbreak again.

        New Zealand has the advantage of being an island nation. It shut down travel into the country.

        Do you recall Dems calling Trump a xenophobic Fascist for stopping air travel to China and Europe. I sure do.

        There are definitely takeaways to learn what worked, what didn’t, and identify vulnerable dependencies on China for supply. (One is to recall that Trump has warned against relying upon Chinese manufacturing for years.) But to claim that the US pandemic is somehow Trump’s fault, or that it would not have happened if a Democrat were in charge, is absolutely ludicrous. You are to recall that Dems opposed border security, and shutting down air travel, both of which helped New Zealand significantly in its own fight.

        1. and was on the phone with 911 while trailing Martin.

          Wrong. He was in his truck (which I think he re-parked once) when he called a non-emergency police dispatcher. He only got out of his truck (while continuing to talk to the dispatcher) when Martin unaccountably ran away down an alley. There is no indication Zimmerman walked much less ran down the alley and he reported to the dispatcher that he could not see Martin anywhere. Every indication is that he headed down a walkway perpendicular to the alley, checked an address, then turned around and headed back to his truck, then stopped on the way there and loitered around waiting for the police. He never trailed Martin, just observed him.

          1. martin was a crook up to no good. he attacked zimmerman and was beating him within an inch of his life.

            lucky for zimmerman and society, zimmerman was able to draw his weapon and terminate the felonious assault of the powerful urban youth

            a jury saw the truth and rendered a verdict but the enemies of law and order won’t let the fake story die with the perp

      2. Natch returns to puke forth some more stinking bile from her gaping maw.

        the feotid stench of propaganda reeks like an outhouse used by thousands of people in one day, at a football game in late august

        we don’t have football games like that due to COVID now but we can be reminded of the bitter stench and odor by her breath of lies

  10. Couldn’t agree LESS with Turley about charging rioters with sedition. Furthermore, I don’t give a damn what Tribe has to say, his mind has been wrecked by TDS and needs time to heal. The riots have gone on quite long enough to establish the motive is not hogwash like “systemic injustice” but the toppling of a regime the rioters don’t like. Elected Democrats respond by blaming others while they prevent their own police from enforcing the law which enables and encourages the rioters by letting them know they have political support.

    I say charge them all with sedition and let their lawyers figure out how to fight it. Turley thinks such a charge will fail but he’s no clairvoyant and – godforbid – months of non-stop violence now spreading across the country could convince a Court to disagree with him.

    Many people are starting to feel that their country is falling apart. We need more than nit-picking and elitist pettifoggery to show them they’re wrong,

  11. “Sedition charges require proof of efforts to overthrow the United States Government.”

    It shouldn’t take more that thirty seconds to find comments from BLM and Antifa members saying that overthrowing the government is their aim.

    And if anyone wants a reason to NOT vote for Biden here’s one: Justice Laurence Tribe

    1. What does Tribe have to do with Biden? Nothing. This is just more of the failed attempt to equate Biden with the unrest in Portland and elsewhere to feed in the failed Trump as “Mr. Law and Order” theme, which is rich coming from a pathological liar, tax cheater and womanizer. They aren’t protesting right now, and there haven’t been riots for a long time. And, guess what? On whose watch did the protests and riots happen? Wasn’t Obama’s or Biden’s.

    2. saying it is not enough. it is not inherently illegal to say that all alone if there are no substantial steps.

      and getting proof of someone saying it and connecting it to the substantial steps is difficult.

      RICO actions aimed at BLM and ANTIFA Would be easier but they are probably chicken or lazy about it.

      and the AUSAs appear to be insubordinate considering Barr’s recent remarks. or so one suspects.

  12. Agreed, Turley. Tribe should stay away from religion when criticizing Barr. Maybe even formally called out over it. But Trump and Barr are both straight up dickheads. Hands down. I appreciate his succinct language on the point.

  13. Barr may not be Opus Dei, but he is a hidebound authoritarian who makes public speeches, such as at Notre Dame on 10/11/19 (https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/11/05/barr-n05.html), denying the separation of Church and State, claiming that the U.S. (and those who founded it) is a fundamentally Judeo-Christian religious society, that religion is the true source of public morality, and that “secularism” is its enemy. This is relevant to sizing him up as a public official, and criticizing his views for being radically incorrect. There is a difference between attacking someone because of their religious beliefs and pointing up an attempt by a public official to impose those beliefs on everyone else who does not share them. Tribe has TDS, but there is a kernel of truth in what he spewed here.

    1. Yes, it is dishonest for Turley not to mention that Barr is acting like a religious crusader in his position as AG.

    2. secularism in the US has mostly freed up the interests of very rich people to do as they like without regard to public norms of morality– in part because there is no “center” from which the public can draw normative values.

      this is not an accident of secularism it is an intended effect. same in France with laicite.

      as the Enlightenment bromides show themselves increasingly vapid and empty of any normative substance, the people will crave ethical norms to protect us from the predatory international capitalist pigs like Geo Soros who are behind much of the current mischief.

      where will we find those norms of what is a just and ordered society? what is the end of human existence? what is the eudaemonia? I’ll just ask that question for now.

      1. Kurtz, we’ll find those norms from decent humans. That’s where they always came from anyway and you don’t need the middle man they also dreamed up.

        I live a secular life and have for decades. I have no problem dealing with ethics and morality or finding meaning in life. Fortunately more and more humans are dropping the superstitions as anyone can see the true magic is from rationality and science, not priests and shamans.

        1. I freely admit that many non-religious people have excellent personal morality
          for many people who follow religions, they are sheep, and accept their tutelage accordingly

          nonetheless. i believe it is in the nature of most people to receive their “truth” from authority unquestioningly, and so there will ever be a role for righteous leadership which instructs ethics and morality from a point of authority

          Confucius for example, was purely focused on wordly ethics, and his system has much to commend it. at least in the mind of a “Lǎo fēngjiàn” ie feudalistic mentality such as myself

          in any event, a state may confess a religion as a source of legal inspiration, without establishing a theocracy. there are about 11 nations which profess Catholicism for example, including Costa Rica, in organic laws. Costa Rica is an exemplary nation, small, but peaceful, orderly, and just

          1. Kurtz, it may be that authority is a substitute for thought for many humans, and therefore a decline in religions as the moral authority will lead to disorder and crime, but I’m not sure – in fact I doubt – that as this very decline is occurring it has led directly to increases in crime. There must be data, but overall crime is certainly declining in the US and possibly around the world. There are other factors to be sure – aging populations, increased wealth, etc. – and isolating may be impossible. But lets just say that conclusion is not obvious.

        2. as for shamans, book, apparently you have not taken an ayahuasca journey. visit Costa Rica and you can get that there too,, broaden your horizons!

          1. Looked it up and it sounds enticing. I see it shares some compounds with DMT, something which I experienced in my misspent youth and with ringing – literally – consequences.

  14. Yes we can observe that L. Tribe is Jewish per wiki. I wonder, and do not know, if he is or is not, an embarrassment to patriotic Jewish Americans. Well, I wont hold Tribe against them.

    Moreover, we could do a survey of certain organizations like ACLU which have filed one lawsuit after another against Christians, about Christianity, and I suspect we might find a very statistically significant percentage of them were Jewish. In HR talk, we would find a “significant over-representation.” Their lawyers, their directors, and their donors. At every level. In fact it is often a bragging point for them. But guess what, a lot of Christians know, and wonder if there isn’t something to that which is a matter of legitimate concern.

    Here’s another place where it’s come up.:
    Joe Biden remarked about gay marriage that Jewish lawyers helped it happen.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2013/05/22/biden-jewish-leaders-helped-gay-marriage-succeed/

    Tribe is headed in a nasty direction on this. Of course we understand, he provokes.

    Patriotic Americans of all religions must join together in a resounding vote in favor of Donald Trump, for the best interests of our nation as a whole, and to put some of these nasty creatures and their provocations a message.

  15. Where is Turley when FOX NEWS and other right-wing talking heads say the most outrageous things with no check on the facts, nowhere is Turley. Where was Turley when, {it was brought up earlier} Barr went batsh#t crazy at Notre Dame. Not to mention Trump’s daily lies to the American people. Trump attacks anyone and everyone that does not bow to the Dear Leader, and Turley enables such behavior on a day to day basis. Turley keeping his Trump base happy must be hard work for him, but he seems to know what strings to pull in case of fire.

  16. As I have mentioned, here, here, here, and here in my past comments, the media has always been political biased. We have two political choices, one more than a dictatorship, and each has its rags. Tribe shoots himself and the left in the foot for sinking to the depths where Trump routinely inhabits. In this political climate one should not expect to see Tribe called out on left leaning rags. Is Trump ever exposed for the buffoon and liar he is on Foxnews or the Washington Times? It’s the nature of the game. One has to read both sides and the objective Reuters and BBC to get a balanced overview. Tribe did go too far in going after Barr’s religious influence however. It is worth commenting on how a ‘deeply religious’ Barr can support such an evil mess like McConnell and Trump. One has to go back to the Renaissance era to see that sort of religious hypocrisy.

    1. Oh, you don’t have to go back that far. The Holy Roman Empire was around before, during and after the Renaissance. Usually the end of the old feudal order is marked with the Treaty of Westphalia, but the HRE outlived that too for a time

      and in the time of the nation state there is also “Catholic Integralism” Action Francaise was one group that advocated it.

      “Travail, Famille, et Patrie”– perhaps a better slogan that “liberte, egalite, et fraternite”? I only ask the question

      Jean Raspail: patrie oui, republique, non!

      https://lecolonel.net/quand-la-patrie-est-trahie-par-la-republique/

        1. we welcome scoundrels whose patriotic urges help them transcend their previous wrongs to society

          together, we will all be uplifted in service to nation

  17. “ Tribe called Senator Mitch McConnell a “flagrant dickhead!” and loves to use Trump-like insults like “McTurtle” to refer to the Senator. Tribe thrills his followers by referring to Trump as a “Dick” or “dickhead in chief.”

    Turley seems to be quite upset that liberal scholars and media are not condemning Tribe for his insults. He mentions “trump-like” behavior that is detestable.

    Here’s the problem, Turley is being quite the hypocrite. Where is his indignation about the conservative scholars and media for being silent about trump’s own bigoted and vulgar insults? Oh right, it’s because Trump is trump. Turley’s complaints about tribe don’t factor in the fact that liberal scholars and the media know…Tribe is Tribe. The irony couldn’t be more obvious.

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