We have been discussing how reporters, editors, commentators, and academics have embraced rising calls for censorship and speech controls, including President-elect Joe Biden and key advisers. This includes academics rejecting the very concept of objectivity in journalism in favor of open advocacy. Now, Columbia Journalism Dean and New Yorker writer Steve Coll has denounced how the First Amendment right to freedom of speech was being “weaponized” to protect disinformation. That’s right. A journalism dean and writer declaring that the problem is that free speech itself is allowing too much freedom on the Internet and other forums.
Coll’s comments came in a discussion on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe” when he was asked by Kasie Hunt about the need for Big Tech to censor speech. Rather than defend the right of people to express themselves freely, Coll lashed out at companies like Facebook as “motivated, as all companies are, to make money” though at the same time is “acting like a public square.” He decried the failure to have more expansive regulation of free speech and showed little concern or merit for arguments from free speech advocates. Like Harvard academics who recently declared “China was right” about censorship, Coll just assumed that it was self-evident that too much free speech is a bad thing and that these companies need to protect people from harmful or false ideas.
“And yes, Facebook has moved somewhat. They’ve had a better election in 2020 than they did in 2016. They’ve learned to put some brakes on, you know, here and there, but you can’t get away from the fact that their mission is to connect everybody in the world. That’s what motivates Mark Zuckerberg and it’s his passion and he profoundly believes in free speech.”
What is most maddening is that Coll spoke on behalf of journalists in calling for less freedom:
“Those of us in journalism have to come to terms with the fact that free speech, a principle that we hold sacred, is being weaponized against the principle of journalism and what do we do about that,. As reporters, we kind of march into this war with our facts nobly shouldered as if they were going to win the day and what we’re seeing that is because of the scale of this alternative reality that you’ve been talking about, our facts, our principles, our scientific method–it isn’t enough. So what do we do?”
That used to be an easy question. What you do is allow free speech to combat bad speech. What you do is support the right of citizens and journalists to publish without censorship. What you do is to embrace the freedom of expression while reinforcing the need to use that freedom to counter disinformation. Instead, Coll is joining the forces seeking to silence or curtail the speech of others. You do not support free speech by calling for its curtailment. For free speech advocates, it is as compelling as saying that we needed to “save” villages by destroying them in Vietnam. Worse yet, he is doing it in the names of “good journalism.”
Waal, Prof. Turley, all you have to do is look around you.
You live in a world where the word-merchant element is chock-a-block with adherents to various and sundry social fictions. They use whatever tools they can to prevent ordinary people from pointing out that the fictions are in fact fictions.
Exactly. Our ruling class accepts — and seeks to force us to accept — dozens of cockamamie falsehoods along the lines of the emperor’s new clothes. Their power depends on these falsehoods, and they will do whatever is necessary to make sure they prevail. They are monsters who rule by force and fraud.
FIRE, oh sorry it’s just lighter! FIRE, FIRE, ah sorry again it’s just a lighter. Cry Wolf enough and no one believes in what you say. You can fool some of the people some of the time, but you can’t fool all of the people all of the time. FREE speech must prevail!
What speech and which speech should be curtailed? I bet that Steve Coll thinks his speech is fine. I wonder how he would act if it was his speech shutdown. I do agree with part of the idea that if the various platforms start to edit, then they open up to regulation. For me this is not so esoteric an argument. I have yet to see anyone come up with reasonable ideas of what should be curtailed speech. I am no fan of Coll and this idea, but I have zero problem with him saying it and no he should not be censored either.
Meanwhile, back in the real world which Turley works hard to avoid:
“The Supreme Court on Tuesday denied a last-minute attempt by President Trump’s allies to overturn the election results in Pennsylvania, a blow to the president’s continuing efforts to reverse his loss to Democrat Joe Biden.
The court’s brief order denying a requested injunction provided no reasoning, nor did it note any dissenting votes. It was the first request to delay or overturn the results of last month’s presidential election to reach the court, and it appears that Justice Amy Comey Barrett, Trump’s latest nominee, took part in the case.:…..”
Numerous posters here put their anti-democratic hopes on this one. Trump lawyers now 1-50 in court cases and 2-5 in catching the virus. So far only the Arizona legislature has had to shut down due to meeting with them.
Also:
“Trump, whose legal team has been repeatedly rebuffed by judges, said Wednesday that he would intervene in a long-shot case filed Tuesday in which Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton (R) is asking the Supreme Court to overturn Biden’s wins in the swing states of Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin and Georgia…..”
This one is on track to make the court record 1-51 with cute little Trump cultists apparently not aware of the dangerous precedent hearing cases brought by rival states after each election armed with lame arguments like bogus odds.
Seeing these guys get on the bus and then drive it over the cliff is, on the one hand, endlessly fascinating.
Ultimately I hope it sets the stage for bipartisan investigation into everything electoral…, necessity for a paper trail, voter suppression, foreign interference, the absolutely dysfunctional state that the EC has settled into. For a candidate to lose the popular vote by 7 million and still have the results of a state turn on withstanding pressure from the president on two electors to overturn their votes is the definition of flimsy. Let alone pressure from the president doing the same in every swing state.
Elvis Bug
Invoking the “popular vote” marks you as an ignoramus. An intelligent and benevolent person would call you an idiot — as I am doing — and point out that the problem is that we are not one people, yet you want to put us under one government. You want to rule me and others, and that means you are evil.
Re: the TX suit, The Hill says “It was not immediately clear if Trump planned to intervene in his personal capacity or if his campaign would get involved. A campaign spokesperson did not respond to a request for comment.”
It’s a stupid suit, and although SCOTUS could choose to hear it, I expect them to reject it.
There are plenty of lawyers pointing out problems with the suit. A couple of examples:
https://twitter.com/steve_vladeck/status/1336312379408322560
https://twitter.com/nycsouthpaw/status/1336643024269533185
It’s disturbing how many Americans trust Trump and believe his fantasy that the election was “stolen.” He’s a con artist, making money off of this to help him retire his campaign debt (and who knows what else, I wouldn’t be surprised if he spends the donations on meeting room rentals at his properties to funnel some of the funds directly into his own pockets).
Here’s the docket for the case so far:
supremecourt.gov/search.aspx?filename=/docket/docketfiles/html/public/22o155.html
“It’s disturbing…”
Everything is disturbing to this disturbed hack.
… “Kayla” says, describing himself.
The “stolen” election is not a fantasy. The idea matches what we saw. And as far as I know, no one anywhere has debunked any of the reasonable inferences that follow from those observations. If no one does that, it’s reasonable to presume it can’t be done.
You have Trump in the head. It will not go away unless you seek help.
Soon those people will be looking to resurrect the thoughts behind the Alien and Sedition Act. What someone should do is resurrect the ACLU
Amen.
ACLU, another cutout of the plutocracy. they have never helped the people and they never will
Needed: Trusted news sources with factual reporting and separate opinion sections, along with discussion forums where topics are debated allowing all views, but insisting on reasoned, respectful dialogue.
Coll is a narcissist who has reached his personal goal of becoming an idiot.
Allan, you reached that personal goal long ago, so he’ll have a long way to go before he catches up with you.
We have lost the Fourth Estate. The journalism profession seems to be devoid of any professional ethical standards. I am struck by the arrogance of Professor Coll. We need vigorous debate. Perhaps Professor Coll could benefit from a refresher course on the First Amendment and other relevant topics.
Oh Jonny, you suckup, You mention Biden and his supporters but you forgot Trump’s position on social media? He wanted to crab and control twitter. Oh, I forgot, you are Trump sycophant.
+100.
What’s amusing is that if Trump got his way and Section 230 were rescinded, Twitter would absolutely dump Trump’s Twitter account.
Agreed with you on free speech as a principle, Turley. I suspect you may come at it from a ‘let’s see what we can legally sneak under the radar’ POV, though. And I know that on your blog here you do see it necessary to have a rather expansive censorship capacity, so it’s clear you think there are limits to absolute free speech…
I even agree with that in principle as well. But I’m not sure that ‘free speech’ includes ‘violent speech’. You guys that use free speech as a way to create space for trump and his mouthpieces to verbally abuse people are missing the boat, however.
Elvis Bug
Dumb ol’ Steve Coll. The First Amendment has always been a “weapon” in the hands of the people. That’s why it’s enshrined in the Constitution. It’s who’s in possession of the weapon and not the weapon itself Coll objects to. He’s so patently a tyrant bootlicker.
And Mespo certainly knows his tyrant bootlicking.
Thanks.
You’re quite welcome, big mess.
Look !
A squirrel !!
I see you more as a ferret, Joe. A Russian one at that but we can go with squirrel.
I see you as a slime mold, mespo727272. Being a squirrel would be a big step up for you.
This anonymous is putrid along with being ignorant. He is smelling up the blog.
There you go again Allan, ascribing your own faults to others.
You are acting like a fool while you keep muttering the same name. It appears whoever he is has you under a barrel.
LOL
I only use it when it’s you, Allan. You post under multiple names now, but your verbal stink signs your comments even under your new names.
Coll thinks that because free speech has become “weaponized” that we have to weaponize censorship. I’m with you on this JT, but I’m not worried because it’s not going to work. Last week, the NYTimes printed a diatribe op-ed that confidently called for “thousands” of real live censors to pre-screen Facebook. Can you believe that? Does Coll actually think there will be an effective human-based mechanism to censor the “toxic” stuff that will be allowed to work? Every one of those dedicated censors will be identified and publicly vilified by the thousands, or millions of social media users who are sufficiently outraged by this. Believe me, those real-life censors will regret the day they ever started it. Violence won’t be necessary. Face it, the mechanics of mass journalism today make it impossible for censorship to function in any effective way. Coll wants war, he says, but he has no idea how fast his side will lose.
Free professors are the enema of the people.
I agree that the shutting down of the New Yorker is an approved act of weaponized free speech. A dose of their own medicine. Close the Columbia Journalism School. End this garbage talk.
The free press is the enemy of the people. – Donald Trump
Might be a good place to start criticizing critics of free speech.
THG:
Trump said the fake press is the enemy of the people but never suggested shutting that standup routine down. No charge for the edit or the context.
“No charge for the edit or the context.”
Thankfully, not. No good comes from paying for a flawed product.
Aninny:
Well maybe just a truthful one. Why don’t you pass on the quote you’re relying on. I’m all ears.
Well I’m relying on your own quote in the context of this thread, mesopotamia.
But if you’re looking for bits and pieces to chew on here’s a couple…
https://www.aclu.org/blog/free-speech/freedom-press/donald-trump-thinks-freedom-press-disgusting
I love the quality of reasoning that Mr. Turley’s articles always include. This commentary, however, is no better than any other imbecilic diatribe so easily found on the web. Too bad. Anyone who would rely on a link to such an article full of misrepresentations and out of context quotes is no one with whom to converse. it will be like a shouting match between two deaf people. If you need anything to gauge the validity or intellectual honesty of today’s ACLU vs the recent past, you just have to look at the myriad instances where they would have intervened (like the blue state governors dictates) which have been met with the sound of silence for 4 years. Reply if you must. I won’t be looking below Mr. Turley’s well constructed posts.
David, I sympathize with your comment. The above anonymous is whacko
I believe you’re looking to empathize with the comment, and sympathize with the sentiment. I suppose that makes you equally delusional. Cool thing is you’ve found a friend.
Elvis Bug
Trump voters who have been cheated at the polls, people suffering from the lockdown, in general, all the workers and middle class, should refuse to pay income taxes next april.
a sufficient number who do so will hurt the profligate spenders in DC who deserve a haircut., if the media picks it up– if, considering that they will ignore and suppress the news– but if they do, if tax receipts suffer, then it will increase the risk premium on the US treasures, make borrowing more expense.
at some point the rising interest rate could become too expense and cause a default
that will not matter to you and me. our lives will go on
It will matter to the billionaires, who control the US government and all its media and petty bureaucracies. It will hit them in the pocketbook
and in fact it is the ONLY way to hit back at them
before they give us more lockdowns, voter fraud, and untested vaccines
#TAXPROTEST2020
Saloth Sar
Digging full on tea party sell out post election, Kurtz. It suits you.
Elvis Bug
I dont quite follow that remark. The Boston Tea Party is an example of nonviolent tax protest that i am advocating
Saloth Sar
Yadda yadda. The comical and bloviating self indulgence of an enemy of civil liberties.
Elvis Bug
In this context, “mesopotamia” made me think of that Mesopotamian hippo –
https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/544227
William! And I believe we now have a proper name for Mespo’s bloviation.
Elvis Bug
Though William the hippo is a whole lot more attractive than mespo’s bloviation is.
What a stupid guy.
Aninny:
The free press is the enemy of the people. – Donald Trump
*************************
David M. Hart makes you out the big picture fool, but I’m more concerned at the micro level of finding the “quote” you ascribe to Trump. It’s simply not there as I suspected. Thanks for the “proof.” Now join CommitToHonestDiscussion as the alternate liar-in-chief. She’s hung up on “government officials.”
Here are a couple of examples:
“The Lamestream Media is truly out of control. … They are the Enemy of the People…”
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1260051164206333954
“There has not [been a more dishonest news cycle]. They are the Enemy of the People. TDS!”
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1300917361147629569
The Trump Twitter Archive (thetrumparchive.com) is a helpful tool for searching his tweets.
CTHD:
Wasn’t the quote but given your intellectual limitations, it’s an A for effort.
It’s interesting that the tv ratings came out last night and for the first time ever Fox was dethroned. Their viewers now have flocked to the little known NewsMax and some to One America News. In a two week time span Fox was pushing the talking heads closer and closer to the blue side and people decided to leave. The Murdoch Agenda is already well covered by MSNBC and CNN so the chance of Fox getting back on its feet are slim.
The New Yorker and the Columbia Journal would be sad to lose but watch and see what happens.
John Stuart Mill maintained that freedom of speech was necessary because public reasoning proceeds by trial and error. We need the freedom to be wrong, and in public discussion, being wrong frequently means having a set of examples and then making a “hasty generalization” to a false conclusion. Almost everything I believed in college turned out to be pretty naive a few years later due to me believing what professors said. . But college is a space for making errors as well as discovering that which turns out to be true. Stating our speculations that are wrong could be labelled “disinformation”. Most people don’t understand with certainty the issues they have opinions about. Almost all political advertising seems to be disinformation to the candidate being maligned. If we allow people to vote regardless of how stupid and uneducated their opinion is, then we also need free, yet uncertain, public reasoning to be continually protected by law. Free speech is a trade- off the cons of wrong opinions and the pros of freedom to speak without absolute certainty. The pros outweigh the cons.
Liberty: the state of being free within society from oppressive restrictions imposed by authority on one’s way of life, behavior, or political views.
Liberty is being attacked in the United States.
The rapid ideological shift that the left is taking towards totalitarianism needs to be put down.
Liberty is being attacked in the United States.
The rapid ideological shift that the right is taking towards fascism needs to be put down.
Anonymous wrote, “The rapid ideological shift that the right is taking towards fascism needs to be put down.”
HOGWASH!!!
You clearly do not know your history.
There is absolutely no evidence that the political right is shifting towards fascism, if you believe there is then you’re likely suffering from Acute Propaganda-Induced Anti-Trump Hysteria Syndrome.
On the other hand; there is clear evidence that some in the political left are shifting towards fascism! Their blatantly open brownshirt intimidation tactics and supporting of such tactics are mirroring the same kind of tactics that the fascists used against the Jews in 19830’s Germany.
You clearly don’t understand what fascism is.
Or history in general.
Without suppressing free speech, something needs to be done to stop all the propaganda.
‘Free speech is being weaponized…’
Straight out of the Ministry of Truth…
The hypothesis that free speech will win over disinformation in a marketplace of ideas has been overwhelmingly disproven recently. Social media and multimillion dollar disinformation operations from Russia have rendered the American people so gullible that they are drinking algicide on command and a majority of one party believe the election was rigged despite that notion having been rejected 51 times in multiple courts. Something must be done. Help us figure out the best solution Mr. Turley.
Anonymous, The solution is to put a large piece of duct tape around the mouths of people like you. You’re so full of crap, it will take an extremely large shovel to deal with your daily output.
running dog anonymous, servant of capitalist owners of mass media, whining
there is no free speech, it is illusory, the billionaires powers of censorship are far stronger and more dangerous than “government” which they own and play like a fiddle, erasing whatever they do not like, and cooking up more schemes to sicken and impoverish the people
billionaires are the enemy
stop paying taxes, it’s the only way to fight back
let’s make a peaceful protest against them that will hit them in the pocket book! if enough of us drag feet to slowly pay or flat out refuse, it will cause major problems for the federal government, dependent on borrowing which serves billionaires and hurts the people!
Saloth Sar