This has been an awful year for New Yorkers in dealing with the massive costs of the pandemic. Adding to those costs is the increase in violent crime under Mayor Bill di Blasio with a 41 percent increase in homicides. Now, the city is focused on an attack on a driver on Fifth Avenue by a mob of bicyclists. The attack in broad daylight on a car captures a sense of lawlessness for many in the city.
A 15-year-old boy was arrested in connection with the attack on the bar driven by Max Torgovnick. He was driving his elderly mother back from dropping off a donation at a nonforprofit organization before heading to his father’s neurology office. He described being surrounded by up to 50 bikers on Tuesday afternoon. The teen smashed his window and dented the BMW at Fifth Avenue and 21st Street.
The sources put the figure at approximately 25 bikers.
What is striking about the video is the length of time and the utter sense of impunity in the middle of the day on one of the most traveled road in Manhattan. There are obviously many onlookers and people filming the attack but there is little sense of concern.
The real gist of today’s piece is to throw rocks at DiBlasio, one of Turley’s assignments, instead of addressing that cracker from Missouri who’s trying to make a name for himself with Trumpsters by formally objecting to Biden’s victory. Why not apply your legal expertise to that and the likelihood of success, plus the historical significance of this, which has never happened before in U.S. history, Turley? His lame argument: “74 million Trump supporters deserve to be heard.” Heard about what? That they are dumb enough to believe lies, even though 59 courts, including the SCOTUS, have ruled there is no evidence of widespread fraud that could overturn the election. Even though election officials in every single swing state, as well as governors, confirm that Biden did win, fair and square. As there have always been, every single year, there were small glitches and discrepancies, but this was the most heavily monitored election in US history, and there’s not enough anomalies to overturn the election. Votes have been recounted repeatedly, including a complete signature match recount that proved, again, that Biden won, but that still won’t shut up Trump. He will never shut up, because all of his life he’s gotten away with lying, cheating and bullying people. He’s also gotten away with failing in business venture after business venture, but still nurtures the persona of a wealthy self-made billionaire. He’s really a failure and a deadbeat. What about the 7 million more of us who voted against the worst ever occupant of the White House? What about the fact that Trump has set a record for low approval ratings? What about poll after poll that showed that Americans want his ass out of our White House? What about the out of control pandemic, the recession, record unemployment and an historic trade deficit? Is it logical to believe that Trump could win, by a landslide, no less, or is it more logical to believe that he is an out of control narcissist who has the ability to manipulate people in believing his lies?
NUTCHACHA says, “Stealing elections is good.”
As long as all we parasites get our “free stuff” from the white man’s money, we don’t care how it’s accomplished.
Further, she regurgitates, paraphrasing “The Treasure of the Sierra Madre,” “Constitution, we don’t need no stinking Constitution!”
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________
“The end justifies the means.”
– Leon Trotsky
Vis a vis Trump, the only “stolen” election was in 2016: he cheated, with Russia’s help. He lost the popular vote, and Americans took to the streets in protest. He’s done nothing but fail since, and Americans are paying the price with a wrecked economy, record unemployment, record COVID infections and deaths setting new records every single day, and the 20 million vaccinations by December are a little over 2 million. Another flop, due to failure of leadership. Why won’t he just go away somewhere, stop lying, lick his emotional wounds, and let America recover?
Are you sick Nachacha, or just brain-washed?
Bring neither D or R I have to ask, as the same protests occurred in 2016 by the Ds because the Rs won and that’s OK, how is it that the Rs protest in 2020 because the Ds won? Sounds like hypocrisy, typical of the mindless crowds that follow these political dregs.
NUTCHACHA is rapidly decompensating as she absurdly attempts to insidiously associate herself with America. What she means when she says America is the welfare spigot. She has no concept or grasp of America and American freedom.
The entire communistic American welfare state is unconstitutional, including, but not limited to, affirmative action, quotas, welfare, food stamps, rent control, social services, forced busing, minimum wage, utility subsidies, WIC, TANF, HAMP, HARP, TARP, Agriculture, Commerce, Education, Labor, Energy, Obamacare, Social Security, Social Security Disability, Social Security Supplemental Income, Medicare, Medicaid, “Fair Housing” laws, “Non-Discrimination” laws, etc.
Congress has the power to tax only for “…general Welfare…” not individual welfare, specific welfare, charity or redistribution of wealth. Congress has no power to regulate anything other than the value of money, the flow of commerce among nations, States and Indian tribes, and land and naval Forces. Congress has no power to claim or exercise dominion over, or possess or dispose of, private property.
Karl Marx wrote the Communist Manifesto 59 years after the adoption of the Constitution because none of the principles of the Communist Manifesto were in the Constitution. Had the principles of the Communist Manifesto been in the Constitution, Karl Marx would have had no reason to write the Communist Manifesto. The principles of the Communist Manifesto were not in the Constitution then and the principles of the Communist Manifesto are not in the Constitution now.
The communists (liberals, progressives, socialists, democrats, RINOS) requested of their ally, communist China, that it release “China Flu, 2020” at the outset of a presidential election year to stop the inexorable landslide victory by President Donald J. Trump.
“It’s the economy, stupid!”
– James Carville
President Trump’s economy was historically successful and his political opposition had nothing to counter with. Now the communists blame President Donald J. Trump for the outcome of its request for the release of “China Flu, 2020” by its ally.
Are Americans sufficiently incognizant and obtuse as to listen to the false propaganda of communists (liberals, progressives, socialists, democrats, RINOS) who are determined to unconstitutionally steal, control and redistribute the property of others while they create their “utopian” model through unconstitutional social engineering.
NUTCHACHA rejects American freedom and the Constitution.
NUTCHACHA and her ilk have no business being in the United States.
They are the mortal enemies of America.
Russia, Russia, Russia, ….. really??? Come on, Clinton was a horrible candidate and that’s why she lost. Look up what was declassified last spring re crowdstrike where its head admitted that he couldn’t prove that there even was a hack. No, it was nonsense from the beginning designed to give Clinton cover for the shenanigans she and the DNC did to Sanders and to weaken Trump.
Anyone who can spew such voluminous, polemic vomit on an internet page is the very definition of an ” out of control” narcissist!
You are an idiot. WE had strong growth until the pandemic. And the Democrats locked down every city they control leading to unemployment as well as the riots and chaos that resulted from defunding the police. He secured peace between Israel and her adversaries, signed the prison reform bill, renegotiated NAFTA, appointed conservative judges who will protect religious freedom, eliminated tax and regulatory policies that hurt small businesses, helped to build the wall, poured massive amounts of money into finding a vaccine. The Democrats and a corrupt media opposed him from the beginning. engaging in violence against his supporters, censoring the views of conservatives, threatened his family. Please get your damn facts straight. Republicans made strong gains in Congress, control two thirds of the state legislative bodies which will result in its taking over Congress in 2022 and have fifty or more seats in the Senate. Stop thinking with your uterus and stop condemning all of us who voted for him.
I see the lobotomy didn’t work. Seek help.
Welcome to DeBlasio’s Inferno where the feral rule the streets with the approval of the powerful. Had enough cake yet, peasant?
mespo……👍
An automobile is a very deadly weapon. Especially when used against bicyclists and people on foot.
So, I have no idea why he didn’t just accelerate rapidly through them and keep going until he was far away from the crowd of poorly raised feral teenagers, then call the cops.
Of course, had he done so, there would be phony cries of BLM indignation from the likes of Joey ChiCom, Svelaz, Committed to Dishonesty, and Anonymous Elvis Bug.
A group whose collective IQ barely cracks double digits.
“….phony cries of BLM…”
The video shows black kids doing the bulk of the damage but highly edited still shots provided by NYDaily News shows white kids…
The Left are committed to controlling the narrative
https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/ny-bicyclists-attack-suv-in-chelsea-20201230-o7deomggljhz5nojoecrdryvve-story.html
A car named BMW means Battered Mental Whitties.
Yorkies need guns to defend themselves.
New York. Fly Over And Flush. FOAF.
JT: “. . . with the attack on the bar driven . . .”
You can’t frequent a bar in NYC, but you can drive one?
Why did they pick this BMW to attack? Were they just attacking random nice cars on the street or did it do something to piss them off? In either case they’re wrong but I’ve had the back of my car punched by a random group of jaywalkers who jumped into the street without looking. I’m assuming this was a similar situation looking at the position of the car (in the crosswalk). The bikes were likely doing something erratic and reckless expecting traffic to halt for them. This car didn’t and maybe nearly hit one of them so they decided to take vengeance. Though the driver sounds like a Samaritan, personally, anyone who drives knows BMW drivers drive like they own the road. A situation where most traffic stops for the bicyclists besides the BMW so they extract vengeance sounds more likely than they just saw a BMW and said let’s mess up Richie rich. I could be wrong however.
The number of bicyclists doesn’t give you a hint?
Ascribing logic to mongrels is senseless. Cage them and flush the key.
https://nypost.com/2020/12/31/harrowing-birds-eye-video-shows-bike-gangs-attack-on-nyc-cab/
Atlas Shrugged – now non-fiction
I can only assume this is fake news because when I searched the New York Times just now there was no story including the name of Max Torgovnick. Given that the NYT covers “All the News That’s Fit to Print” I can think of no other explanation.
With respect Turley, I am reluctant to criticize the bystanders for catching this attack on their camera phones rather than doing whatever else you think they should be doing. A good video goes a long way towards identifying, locating and arresting the perpetrators. And as for calling 911, we will never know whether that was done before beginning to record the freak show.
Surrounded by 50 punks
If that BMW SUV had NYC Mayor Bill de Blasio or Police Commissioner Dermot Shea in it, then those punks would have been met with hail of gun fire. The rest would be rounded up & charged with attempted murder and domestic terrorism.
if they’d have picked a lot of people in NYC they’d have met the same
these “urban youths” are rolling the dice in a crazy and stupid way
they are a menace to society. diblasio makes bloomberg’s tenure look like camelot
Sal Sar
What is striking about the video is the length of time and the utter sense of impunity in the middle of the day on one of the most traveled road in Manhattan.
What do you fancy ‘Black Lives Matter’ actually means?
And THIS is why my wife left NYC and we no longer visit. This mentality had been brewing for a long time. If there are never consequences for those that expect there to be no consequences, this sort if thing is only going to escalate (and is). People migrating to other states is not a panacea if it overpopulates other areas, either. This is all a real problem that should have been addressed long ago while still budding. Many modern 15-35 year-olds remind me of the ‘Reavers’ on the series ‘Firefly’. As time goes by they are becoming feral. That’s likely to be expected when no one is parenting them. Mowgli they are not.
Again, there was a remarkable improvement in the level of public order in New York City between 1990 and 2010. This included an 82% decline in the murder rate. It was this accomplishment that diBlasio deliberately trashed. It’s hard to think of a big city mayor of the last 50 years as bad as Bilge diBlasio. The only two in the running might be Coleman Young and Marion Berry.
Lori Lightfoot is trying to outdo Harold Washington’s failures as mayor of Chicago. And she is succeeding. Succeeding at besting him in failure
Sal Sar
Kurtz, why was Washington a failure?? No one wanted Bernie Epstein! They all knew he was a stooge for Fast Eddie. And only the most racist Whites thought Eddie was cool.
Middle Earth just called. They want their trolls back.
Bernard Epton, and he wasn’t a stooge for Edward Vrdolyak. He won 48% of the vote because he was the alternative. He was Jewish, liberal, wealthy, and pro-abortion. IOW, a Rockefeller Republican.
Not Washington in particular, but the black power structure generally. Washington was messy and flawed. After his death, Chicago was left with the 2d echelon black pols, and the drop from 1st echelon to 2d echelon was virtiginous. Washington needed the bourgeois (commonly Jewish) liberals on the lakefront for his majority. Bozos like Steve Coakley and Allan Streeter drove them away. That’s how you got Richard M. Daley in the mayor’s chair..
During some of the Rudy years in NYC, our daughter was a baker at Alcazar bakery on Lower East side. She lived at 94th and Columbus, Upper West Side. Every morning at 4 a.m. she had to catch a Subway for work. She said she was never hassled…..
And she felt safe! That was the environment Rudy had promised and secured for the citizens of New York City. And because people felt safe, they could enjoy living there…It was a wonderful life, thanks to Rudy.
I visited NYC about 25 years ago. The citizens were incredibly nice. They had been on a campaign to improve the city’s image and stop crime and it worked. Sad to see it turning back into the bad old NYC. Atlanta is also getting a reputation for crime and nastiness. Atlanta is going cobalt blue and stinking up GA’s reputation. Leftwing administration and urban ugliness are a thing.
Why would some gradual forward movement and mild acceleration (both in the cause of self defense) not have been the natural reaction, especially with your “older” mother in the passenger seat beside you? I think most of us would have moved rather than just sit there and take it. Of course this statement like many of the statements/comments made here is being made without the “benefit” of being there. Thankfully, so it seems, the damage was to property not people. What was the motive for the attack? Driving a BMW? Would the same attack taken place if the vehicle had been a Chevy or Ford? Senseless, purposeless violence. What was the message (if any)?
The message is we own this place and you cannot touch us.
Keep in mind that BLM was formed after the Trayvon Martin affair. What happened in that affair? A 17 year old youth, in lieu of simply going indoors, walked 75 yards down a rear alley and attacked a man loitering about waiting for the police to arrive. It was completely gratuitous. As he was banging the man’s head in the ground, the man took a pistol out of his pocket and shot him. There was a scrum of eyewitnesses and earwitnesses to different parts of this event and the autopsy report was consistent with the shooter’s account. So were the crime scene photos, which showed the wounds on the back of the man’s head and the place where he dropped his keys (i.e. where Martin attacked him).
Exchanges with liberals in fora like this made plain at the time that (1) they loathed George Zimmerman just because and would apply their imagination to manufacturing scenarios which would inculpate him but which had no evidentiary support. (2) they fancied that feral youths like young Martin have a fuzzily defined franchise to physically assault people who annoy them. If you do not understand the assumptions street-level liberal bring to social life, you don’t understand BLM. Blacks often buy into this as well.
A very wise notion to go back to the lionized Trayvon Martin of the left. He was a criminal that the left made into a hero.
Tabby, Martin was 17; which means ‘immature’. Zimmerman was 23 and immature himself. Sadly fate brought them together and their combined immaturity created a mindless tragedy. That’s all one needs to know.
“That’s all one needs to know” aside from Trayvon being a criminal.
What you need to know is that Martin attacked him.
There is a body of evidence that Martin was involved in burglaries in and around the Miami Gardens section of Dade County (where he lived, ordinarily). What that suggests (and what his reaction to Zimmerman suggests) is that he was actually casing places when Zimmerman called the dispatcher. Before attacking Zimmerman, he did four discrete things which are quite odd (but less so if he actually was casing places). (1) he took an inordinately long time to walk from the convenience store to Brandi Greene’s home, odd because it was raining; (2) he undertook to avoid the complex’s entrance and cut through private property – where he was when Zimmerman noticed him; (3) he walked up to Zimmerman’s vehicle and took a 360 circuit around the vehicle; (4) a propos of nothing in particular, he abruptly ran down an alley. From where he started running, it would have taken 12 seconds to reach Brandi Greene’s back door. Zimmerman was notionally withing eyeshot of him around the 9 second mark, but could not actually see him given the lighting. Instead of going inside, Martin stops, waits, and then walks back up the alley to attack Zimmerman.
If he was just minding his own business when Zimmerman called the dispatcher, he picked an odd way of going about it.
You know nothing, Peter, and in your 60s make stupid judgments every time. Zimmerman was employed in an insurance office as an underwriter, recently married, and a property owner. He was also involved in community service. There was nothing wrong with him. He called the non-emergency dispatcher because he saw a youth behaving peculiarly, and was waiting for the police to arrive. He did nothing worth criticizing.
Whether Martin was ‘immature’ or not is irrelevant. He attacked another person for no good reason. That’s actually the salient element in the story. This isn’t that difficult for a normal human being.
“ Tabby, Martin was 17; which means ‘immature’”
He was old enough and experienced enough to kick your arse. Then again you would have bent over for him knowing your Grindr colleagues block your numerous profiles because youre such a pain in the a….
I would have acted lawfully in self defense. Maybe gone to jail maybe not. who cares. But you don’t let people do this to you. Not if you got any heart or bllz
Saloth Sar
Yet the lame on this blog look for violence perpetrated by the right. That is demonstrative of how they think. Nothing can dispel the warped ‘leftism’ that resides in their brains.
A Republican is a Democrat that got mugged.
A Democrat is the Communist that mugged him.
Just a coincidence I suppose that Turley regularly features ugly attacks by black thugs on white people or property but rarely if ever, white people – including cops – on blacks. Do I have that wrong? I don’t think so, but correct me if I am.
Joe Friday ignores reality — there are crushingly overwhelming numbers of black-on-white crime vs. white-on-black. And white-cops-on-blacks even more minuscule vs. cops dealing with most people.
Regardless of the reported statistics, there have been a number of noteworthy stories involving for a legal perspective involving m
the opposite as of late, including the woman who attacked a Grammy winner and his son because she thought they had his phone. The legal issues at play in such cases sound far more interesting than this sort of cut and dry chaos (and it’s nothing like rich people violently and personally attacking poor people has ever been more common than the converse in any society) so it’s surprising Turley hasn’t shown as much enthusiasm for such stories now that he’s become so beloved by the far-right.
If we’re talking about reported statistics the overwhelming majority of crimes are intra-racial within all races, so the need to focus on a specific type of interracial crime would appear to be fear mongering. As we exit 2020 I implore you to heed the wise words of Jedi master Yoda. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to…suffering. This is leading down a dark path. Let’s leave this skewed nonsense behind us.
In 2015, according to the FBI, blacks killed 500 whites and whites killed 229 blacks., so DV there are more of the former, but not insignificant numbers of the latter. . Does Turley’s coverage of these events include any of the latter? Did he do any columns focusing on any of the high profile killing of blacks by cops this year? I’m asking.
I agree that statistics show that being killed by a cop is a function of adversarial interaction with them more than race, but can we agree that black males have a rational fear of any interaction with them born from experience? See GOP Senator Tim Scott’s confirmation of this if you think it’s paranoia.
LOL You’re leaving out that blacks…12% of the population…commit more than half of all murders.
That is not surprising. Joe is an omitter of salient facts and a liar with the rest.
@anonymous “ LOL You’re leaving out that blacks…12% of the population…commit more than half of all murders.” You’re leaving out that homicides and wealth have a very direct correlation, the average white family has 10x the wealth of the average black family, and the bureau of justice statistics stated in 2014 “Poor urban blacks (51.3 per 1,000) had rates of violence similar to poor urban whites (56.4 per 1,000).” The far right seems determined to prove crime is about race not money yet claim we’re bigoted for stating the opposite or demand that stats regarding poverty be left out of the equation. Regardless why are we talking about murder when no murder occurred in the story and 81% of white murder victims are murdered by other whites and 89% of black murder victims are murdered by other blacks. There should be far more stories about white on white and black on black crime than black on white or white on black crime period.
“You’re leaving out that homicides and wealth have a very direct correlation”
Correlation is not causation. To even minimally make your claim you would have to look at the murder rates of other groups that are similarly poor such as Japanese, Chinese, Indian and breakdown the black population into such groups as well to see if a subset accounts for much of the variation from normal.
““Poor urban blacks (51.3 per 1,000) had rates of violence similar to poor urban whites (56.4 per 1,000).”
Again one has to break down the variables if that number is correct. Part of the reason for violence in that minority is likely to have been caused by Democrat policies that helped break down families and the education of their young.
@mark n. “ To even minimally make your claim you would have to look at the murder rates of other groups that are similarly poor such as Japanese, Chinese, Indian and breakdown the black population into such groups as well to see if a subset accounts for much of the variation from normal.”
I kind of already did when I cited crime among black immigrants vs crime from native blacks. The stats came from the 2014 US Census’ American Census Survey. The inmate data they take is reliable because it is ordinarily collected by or under the supervision of correctional institution administrators. 4.21% of US born blacks between age 18 and 54 are incarcerated vs .57% of black immigrants.
Using black immigrants takes all the other legacy of segregation, housing projects, wealth, destruction of family structure out of the picture and focuses strictly on race and incarceration with the main additional variable being likelihood of being falsely stopped and accused. 95% of Asian immigrant families came here following civil rights and the incarceration rate is a comparable .28% overall. For whites the overall incarceration rate is .87% also comparable. This isn’t exactly murder rates and the wealth gap isn’t directly taken into account but it does count out a number of other variables making for a better comparison from a scientific perspective.
“I kind of already did”
You demonstrated the residual fallacy perfectly.
If you can find the murder rate for immigrants or some other subset that removes the other variables like Jim Crow, segregation, war on drugs targeted by race, wealth gap etc from the equation then by all means I’d be happy to read it, but for now this is the best apples to apples comparison I’ve got, I just assumed you missed it when I posted some of it before.
If you just want legal immigrants populations incarceration is .57% for blacks, .31% for whites, .21% for Asians, .68% for Hispanics and .97% for others. There’s a reduction from native born across all population groups sure, but amongst blacks where incarceration is 8x higher among native born compared with legal immigrants and Hispanics where incarceration is 4x higher it’s most stark compared with a 3x reduction for whites and a 2.5x reduction for Asians. Removing those factors and bias helps us see that the racial difference in crime in America is negligible once other factors are isolated.
In other words, you place your reputation on poor statistics.
You are all over the place. I’m not even sure of where you are heading. Your final point is “the racial difference in crime in America is negligible once other factors are isolated.”
Who even knows what “once other factors are isolated” means or what you are talking about.
Who even knows what “once other factors are isolated” means or what you are talking about.
She doesn’t know what she’s talking about.
“ In other words, you place your reputation on poor statistics.”
I explained the source of the statistics and why they are reliable. As I said before if you have better stats for what you requested please present them. You asked for a further breakdown of murder by subsets of races like Japanese-American, Chinese American etc instead of Asian as a whole. I don’t have those stats or know who would. I gave you the closest comparison of subgroups and overall crime I could find, and that’s legal immigrants of all races.
“ Who even knows what “once other factors are isolated” means or what you are talking about.”
I thought I explained this before. With native born black, white, Asian, Hispanic you’ve got differences in generational wealth to take into account, overcrowding in neighborhoods to factor, single family households resulting from increased non violent incarceration by the war on drugs etc. When you look at legal immigrants the majority of those factors are non-existant. If the goal is to study crime and race absent other factors clearly you’d have a more accurate picture when those factors aren’t an issue.
Let’s take a science experiment for example. Your kid says “hey dad, a palm tree grows faster than a bamboo tree because the palm tree here in LA grew faster than the bamboo tree at our second house in Arizona.”
Of course you would remind him, soil, lack of ran and a variety of other factors affected the bamboo trees growth and for a more accurate comparison you should put them in identical conditions if not ideal ones for each.
I think I’ve made it simple enough you can understand why legal immigrant stats are more of an apples to apples comparison than native born stats if you wish to test a theory that one race is inherently more prone to violence than another, than native born stats where historical advantages and prejudices have been at play for generations, but if not I’m not wasting any more time on it. Good luck.
“I explained the source of the statistics and why they are reliable. ”
I think your understanding of statistics is minimal and though you made it appear that you understood the residual fallacy it appears that fallacy is outside your radar. One can’t even comment on the rest because so much doesn’t make sense.
Just to make it clear on the blog. I made no reference to any belief that one race is more violent than another or better than another. I think race is a dumb diversion that prevents us from getting to the bottom of the serious problems we face.
@Mark N. –“I think your understanding of statistics is minimal and though you made it appear that you understood the residual fallacy it appears that fallacy is outside your radar. One can’t even comment on the rest because so much doesn’t make sense.”
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Mark, having my background in statistics, data-mining, probability etc. called into question, I have to ask, how good is your own? I provided you with the source for the statistics, the reason why they can be relied upon and a rational explanation for why they are a plausible substitute for the statistics you requested, which to my knowledge, are not readily available.
As I said before, if you have a statistical breakdown for the crime rates you suggested between “similarly poor such as Japanese, Chinese, Indian and [can] breakdown the black population into such groups as well” then by all means please provide it. Otherwise, I’ve provided a subgroup for each that should be in relatively similar average wealth ranges, considering they’re all legal immigrants.
Perhaps if I provide the link as someone suggested I try more often, it will be better illustrated for some of your cohorts: https://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/immigration_brief-1.pdf (see page 2 for methodology and page 4 for the cited statistics)
—
Mark N.- “Just to make it clear on the blog. I made no reference to any belief that one race is more violent than another or better than another. I think race is a dumb diversion that prevents us from getting to the bottom of the serious problems we face.”
—
You seem to take great stock in continually referencing a logical fallacy. On the subject of logic, what do you think happens when you eliminate an independent variable (wealth) from being tested against a dependent variable? Another must be substituted and tested for.
If you rule out wealth from being a factor in the likelihood of violence as we’re discussing, there are few factors left to test for realistically (including but not limited to race, environment [in part determined by wealth], and family history). That is why, regardless of your beliefs, you’ve inadvertently made strange bedfellows with the likes of one green avatar “Anonymous” who posted at December 31, 2020 at 1:36 PM “Challenge yourself, make a list of all the world’s black-majority cities that have low crime rates”, one brown avatar “Anonymous” who signs off “Saloth Sar” (aka Pol Pot) posted at December 31, 2020 at 5:26 PM “Call me racist, I could care less” after a long diatribe on how black areas are dangerous, and “Art deco x 4” who stated “Highly impetuous people commit violent crimes and have difficulty navigating the labor market, acquiring skills, and saving money” in her attempt to suggest one race is by nature highly impetuous and violent. They want to believe the absence wealth plays no significant role in crime as well, though for very different reasons from you it would seem (they wish to prove that race is the main factor it would seem you do not).
I like you do believe crime is based on choices made. I also take into account that the realistic choices one is presented with in life, are often a matter of circumstance. Being born with some modicum of wealth like most here, I have never been presented with a choice of do or die, kill or be killed, commit crime or see their family struggle. That’s not the case for many of our inner-city youth, who, often lack the hope that it will get better by simply staying the course, unlike our immigrant population of all races. I hope you can see the logic in that. If not, I hope you will in time, but I have more pressing matters to attend to elsewhere.
CK, you have provided very little except that perhaps you like studies based on data mining and selectivity. You are unable to put things together and apparently don’t have the intellectual resources to even consider what the important variables might be in a study.
I can’t even answer the ignorance of the question asked of me several paragraphs below. You didn’t make any sense. Nor will I respond to those things said by others in your rambling to get from here to nowhere while you create scenarios for other people.
This last post of yours was one of the worst word salads I have encountered to date.
You’re leaving out that homicides and wealth have a very direct correlation,
I have news for you. Highly impetuous people commit violent crimes and have difficulty navigating the labor market, acquiring skills, and saving money.
Black male interaction with police is directly linked to elevated black male violent crime rates.
And interaction with police is linked to income levels.and always has been.
Prince Georges county Maryland…one of the wealthiest black enclaves in the US…has higher crime than most poor Asian communities.
And the crime rate among multi-millionaire black athletes is higher than the norm.
Your poverty argument is old, tired, and provably false.
Prince Georges County includes the inner poor districts on the edge of DC which is where most of the blacks live. Many black athletes spent their youth in poor neighborhoods where bad habits are formed. There is no genetic predisposition toward crime if that is your point.
“There is no genetic predisposition toward crime”
That is likely true. The predisposition toward crime is leftism.
I do not know the role of genetics, but I do know that elevated black violence is global. It is not just an American thing. There is not a single place on earth where the black crime rate is low.
Crime and other anti-social behavior is directly linked to fatherlessness. The black out-of-wedlock birth rate is now at 75%.
You can draw your own conclusions.
Prince Georges County includes the inner poor districts on the edge of DC which is where most of the blacks live.
There are no ‘inner poor’ districts in Prince George’s County and blacks account for 2/3 of the county’s population. There isn’t some little sliver of suburban slum where ‘most of’ the blacks live. ‘Most of’ the black population means about 300,000 people.
@artdecox4 I have no idea where this post will wind up but it seems I can’t reply directly to your latest response to my reply to mespo.
On the subject of no one being in a “desperate situation” have you heard anything about the way George Floyd was raised? Sharing a bed at 6’2”+ with 2 other full grown men, washing a single pair of drawers in the sink every night, eating mayonnaise sandwiches to survive. The average situation in the US you describe is far from the worst. And following the war on drugs the number of kids being raised in single family households with an overworked mom getting paid less than the majority woman who is paid less than the majority man for the same job, assuming she can hold on to it, is higher than you’d care to think. Floyd’s situation sounds about as desperate as those of any of my friends coming from 3rd world countries from Iraq to El Salvador, which as you guessed are often violent because people are often in desperate situations.
On the subject of no one being in a “desperate situation” have you heard anything about the way George Floyd was raised? Sharing a bed at 6’2”+ with 2 other full grown men, washing a single pair of drawers in the sink every night, eating mayonnaise sandwiches to survive.
You need to read the tales people tell with a more critical eye than you do. George Floyd was born in 1974. At no time in his lifetime were people ‘eating mayonnaise sandwiches to survive’. You and he lived in America, where excess weight is inversely correllated with income. He grew up in a public housing project. Public housing projects are generally nasty places because the sociology of public agencies makes them suboptimal providers of just about any commodity you care to name and because they are chock-a-block with criminals the authorities refuse to sequester.
The real George Floyd punched his ticket for 13 years in school (something atypical for youngsters in wage earning families when my grandparents were starting theirs) and had some time in community college.
And following the war on drugs the number of kids being raised in single family households with an overworked mom getting
Laws proscribing the trade in street drugs (which have been on the books for more than a century) have very little to do with why you have households run by single mothers. There might be 400,000 men incarcerated on drug charges at any one time, contra the 8-digit population of single-mother households.
paid less than the majority woman who is paid less than the majority man for the same job, assuming she can hold on to it,
You cannot substantiate this with empirical data.
@artdecox4 once again not able to reply to your latest post
“ You need to read the tales people tell with a more critical eye than you do”
These stories were recounted by his family and friends at his very public memorial service broadcast to the world. If you wish to insist they were lying in tandem that’s your prerogative. Also obesity in the US isn’t always a sign that folks are well off. It can often be a sign of horrible nutritional habits such as eating artery clogging food with no nutritional value between fast food establishments and whatever cheap junk kids can warm up when their parents aren’t around. Eating healthy can require a greater degree of time and money.
As far as lacking empirical evidence that women are paid less than men, and female minorities paid less than female majority members, suggest you research studies by Boston university, the department of labor, and the national partnership for women and families, the last of which shows white women make 79c/$ relative to white men and black women 63c/$, the others have more apples to apples job to job stats. I also suggest you look up the overall wealth gap as opposed to just income gap, because this thread is largely about ones starting point in life and taking the legacy of Jim Crow, slavery and segregation into account the desperate plight of so many minority families should be readily apparent. I’m not sure why the reply button is disappearing from your posts but perhaps we’re at that annoying part of the debate here where after the 5th or 6th reply things get smaller and wackier.
Also obesity in the US isn’t always a sign that folks are well off. It can often be a sign of horrible nutritional habits such as eating artery clogging food with no nutritional value between fast food establishments and whatever cheap junk kids can warm up when their parents aren’t around. Eating healthy can require a greater degree of time and money.
You don’t shop for groceries often, do you?
Excess weight is always a sign of too many calories for your activity level. Some people are at a disadvantage because of their metabolism and some because of medication issues.
While we’re at it, I specifically pointed out that obesity is inversely correlated with income. No clue how that enters your civil service brain and comes out as a contention on my part that obese people are ‘well off’. They are not. They are merely not living on mayonnaise sandwiches.
These stories were recounted by his family and friends at his very public memorial service broadcast to the world.
You’ve forgotten Mark Twain’s dictum that a man is not under oath when writing funerary inscriptions. That aside, the whole Floyd show was bizarre. Here’s a man who died of a fentanyl overdose, and the State of Minnesota has put four police officers on trial for murder and adjacent offenses. And you have idiot ‘protests’ in dozens of cities all over the occidental world (decaying into violent riots the police have been told to not suppress) Here is someone who was at best quite unremarkable and much of the time an embarrassment, public nuisance, and threat to good order. He’s there in a gold painted coffin driven in a horse drawn carriage. Fictional stories about his youth would just be a consistent part of the tapestry.
As far as lacking empirical evidence that women are paid less than men, and female minorities paid less than female majority members, suggest you
Suggest you understand what causes those compensation differentials: length of working hours, the degree to which entry and exit from the labor force has been a feature of your life, salable skills, occupational choice, and your general orientation toward work life and willingness to take calculated risks. No, nurses aides don’t get paid as much as HVAC techs. Both are paid roughly what the market will bear. Get over it.
because this thread is largely about ones starting point in life and taking the legacy of Jim Crow, slavery and segregation into account the desperate plight of so many minority families
Jim Crow, segregation, and slavery do not explain why George Floyd (1) never married and (2) had four or five children by an indeterminate number of women. (NB, the total fertility rate for black women is 2.1 children per mother per lifetime). They do not tell us why he had repeated imprisonments, something that is quite atypical among the descendants of slaves. They do not tell us how his mother came to a state in life in 1976 where she was separated from her husband and had five children in her home. They do not explain why the family life of every segment of society was more orderly in 1955 than it was in 1980. If you want to make sense of that, ponder this hypothesis: George Floyd, his mother, and his father were people who lived in the moment. People who live in the moment make a lot of bad decisions.
People are not as respectable and disciplined as they were 60 years ago. At the same time, the overwhelming majority from every walk of life manage to hold down a job or make themselves a companion to someone holding down a job. The overwhelming majority manage through their own efforts to feed themselves and keep a roof over their heads. Most of those who do not from their own earned income are elderly and disabled people respectably retired. In a very messy slatternly way, people survive. Many would benefit from common provision – socialization of costs in certain areas of life or in certain small measure. What they don’t need is people like you who fancy they cannot function without someone with an MSW after her name ‘advocating’ for them.
As for the genuine lumpenproletarians, that’s maybe 4% of the population. You just cannot pee for someone. You can provide certain conduits that they might choose to live a better life and you can sanction and sequester them when they breach public order. That’s it.
@artdrcox4 I’m giving up on trying to reply to your new posts directly. The button just isn’t coming.
“ That aside, the whole Floyd show was bizarre. Here’s a man who died of a fentanyl overdose, and the State of Minnesota has put four police officers on trial for murder and adjacent offenses.”
Pretty sure the knee on the back of his neck for 10 minutes as he’s screaming he can’t breath and crying for his mother in heaven had something to do with it.
Also “civil service brain”? Not sure what makes you think I’m civil service. I doubt many who post here would have that background (no offense to any that do).
Pretty sure the knee on the back of his neck for 10 minutes as he’s screaming he can’t breath and crying for his mother in heaven had something to do with it.
Well, get smart. The level of fentanyl in his femoral was 11 nanograms per cc, a middling value for an overdose death. The medical examiner also noted his trachea was uninjured, which isn’t surprising as officer Chauvin wasn’t pressing on his trachea. The restraint method Chauvin used is part of police training in Minneapolis and approved for use. It does not incorporate obstructing or compressing the airway. Why Floyd was on the sidewalk is evident from the video of his arrest. He went nuts when he was placed in the policy car and had to be taken out and told to lie on the ground. The ‘I cannot breathe’ sequence began before he was placed on the ground; he’d been hooping fentanyl and his lungs were filling up with fluid. Why were these four officers marking time? They were waiting for the ambulance they had called to take him to the hospital. You fancy these four should be on trial. You do that because you’re a standard issue liberal and job 1 is always injuring and harrassing people you’ve defined as the enemy. That they are innocent does not matter to you.
@artdecox4 “ You fancy these four should be on trial. You do that because you’re a standard issue liberal and job 1 is always injuring and harrassing people you’ve defined as the enemy.”
More like I fancy they should be on trial because like the tens of thousands who saw the footage and marched from here to Sydney I was horrified by the unnecessary and grotesque use of force as the crowd pleaded with the officers to do something to stop Chauvin who was laughing as he kneeled on Floyd’s neck.
We’re talking about footage that caused even Donald Trump to say “That’s a very shocking sight,” Jeanine Pirro of Fox and Friends to exclaim “This man who put his knee on the neck of George Floyd does not deserve to be free in this country,” Rush Limbaugh to say “I can’t find a way to justify it” and even Tucker Carlson to call it a horrific act of police brutality. If you see nothing wrong with the officers actions here there’s something very wrong with you. Also the police autopsy is hardly independent and an independent autopsy ruled his death a homicide. I suggest you read it (though I suppose you prefer to follow department labs responsible for locking up thousands of minorities based on pseudo science like bite mark evidence).
More like I fancy they should be on trial because like the tens of thousands who saw the footage and marched from here to Sydney I was horrified by the unnecessary and grotesque use of force as the crowd pleaded with the officers to do something to stop Chauvin who was laughing as he kneeled on Floyd’s neck.
IOW, you misunderstood what was going on and are doubling down.
“I was horrified by the unnecessary and grotesque use of force ”
You were as were the people you mentioned later in your response. So was I until I got over the shock and reviewed police procedure and what had actually happened. Then I saw the toxicology reports and the autopsy reports and realized I made a bad mistake. I assumed things based on lack of knowledge, emotion and shock. Later I used the data to draw my conclusions. George Floyd was a bad dude and died of causes external to police behavior.
The entire funeral was a farce. No one cared about that retired police captain(?0, Michael Dorn?, who worked his entire life providing for his family and his grandchildren. He was killed trying to protect a friend’s place of business.
I hear the moans over the death of a criminal but none for the deaths of good people. That tells us where a lot of our heads are at.
@art deco x 4 so we have multiple autopsies and medical experts weighing in calling Floyd’s death a homicide including the FBI requested armed forces autopsy and of course you’re quick to give the one done by close friend of the police department and county medical examiner Baker every benefit of the doubt when he says he if he found a dead body in a house absent other factors with 11ng/ML of fentanyl he’d rule it an overdose. Of course the actual fatal range of fentanyl independent of other factors for an average adult male is 17-25ng/ml “Hull, M.J., Juhascik, M., Mazur, F., Flomenbaum, M.A. and Behonick, G.S. (2007), ‘Fatalities associated with fentanyl and co-administered cocaine or opiates’, Journal of Forensic Sciences, Volume 52, Issue 6, pp. 1383–1388.”
It’s hard enough replying to you with no reply button but at least I can go to your earlier posts. I’m not even sure how to begin to try that with anonymous when there are several users posting under that identify in the thread. Suffice to say I would love to see what police procedures you saw being followed that say you should continue to kneel on a restrained and subdued man’s neck as he’s gasping for air, crying for his dead mother and pissing himself in the streets as onlookers yell out “you’re killing him!” I would think every police department in America would have reviewed such procedures following the death of Eric Garner but perhaps I’m placing too much faith in the law enforcement system.
As for “Michael Dorn” I’m pretty sure our favorite Klingon actor is alive and well. As for David Dorn, it’s tragic what happened to him and the suspects should be caught and prosecuted to the maximum extent of the law. We don’t have a problem indicting black criminal suspects in this country. If they’re caught doing the crime they will do the time. If they’re suspected of doing the crime they will probably do the time. And if they look like someone who did the crime they may do the time. Dirty police officers however are typically shielded from anything short of a transfer by corrupt police unions. It has practically taken an act of God to see these men tried and absent public pressure following this video it’s unlikely there would have been any ramifications. Is Floyd a champion or a role model? No he’s a victim and the least among us. He shouldn’t have to be a saint to avoid being killed like a rabid dog by the people sworn to protect and serve.
@art deco x 4 so we have multiple autopsies and medical experts weighing in calling Floyd’s death a homicide including the FBI requested armed forces
You can undertake a literature review yourself, as I have done. You will see in said reviews a survey of studies of overdose deaths. A femoral blood level of 11 nanograms per cc is a lethal level and perfectly normal for an overdose death. Again, there is nothing out of the ordinary about the method of restraint applied. It’s in the police department’s procedures manual. The medical examiner also admits that the trachea was uninjured, the hyoid bone intact, &c. That the medical examiners can be coerced by Keith Ellison into writing ‘homicide’ on the form is chilling. If I’m not mistaken, the medical examiner in question admitted that if Floyd had been found in a hotel room, he’d have ruled it an overdose death.
This happened with the Freddie Gray affair in Baltimore. They had ample security camera footage from commercial establishments showing that the police officer in question was driving the paddy wagon normally. They also had a statement from the passenger in the other compartment (who emerged unscathed) that Gray was bouncing off the walls and making a racket. We also have the statements of the officers that Gray was contumacious had had to be cuffed at the ankles and told to lie on the floor of the van. It was bloody clear that he injured himself by standing up contra instructions and toppling over backward into a metal protrusion. The medical examiner gave the crooked prosecutor what she wanted and ruled it a ‘homicide’.
“He shouldn’t have to be a saint to avoid being killed like a rabid dog by the people sworn to protect and serve.’
That is blatant hyperbole.
What I find baffling is that a person who is on deaths door with a week or two of life left in hospice will be called a Covid death if he so happens to test positive when he dies.
George Floyd had Covid, but in that case Covid was not the cause. He had heart disease and hypertension mixed with Fentanyl, methamphetamines and cannabinoids. Covid, the diseases and the drugs together were enough to kill him with the symptoms of shortness of breath.
That Floyd was complaining of shortness of breath BEFORE being restrained seems to be lost among those that wish charges of murder against the policemen. That Floyd NEEDED to be restrained seems to be lost as well. That that type of restraint is in the police manual is lost. Same with the fact that there was no physical trauma to support the diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia.
Yet some wish to blame the police and say George Floyd was “killed like a rabid dog”.
@Anonymous What poor Asian communities are you referring to? In the US or are we talking China? PG County may have some degree of wealth but it also includes a fair number of poor and destitute former denizens of DC who were displaced by gentrification. It also includes an inordinate amount of ex-cons and their progeny caught in the war on drugs. Those with priors are lucky to get a job at McDonalds, much less something they can use to sustain a family, and naturally gravitate towards other means of making a profit, which leads to crime, prison and single family households.
I don’t see the “victims of the opioid epidemic” white asian or otherwise being dragged through the streets and beaten, as they’re given life sentences or charged with conspiracy for failure to rat out their neighbors, and left unable to find work as their children roam the streets raising themselves. I also don’t see middle class and wealthy black families sending their kids to HBCUs and other colleges and universities across America, raising children to be terrors like those seen here. This is clearly a product of poverty and mass incarceration, not genetic predisposition or whatever the resident racial superiority pseudo-scientists would like to imply.
“This is clearly a product of poverty”
LOL No. It “clearly” is not.
Challenge yourself, make a list of all the world’s black-majority cities that have low crime rates.
Good luck.
And btw, if you can’t come up with a list, it’s because you are clearly racist.
@Anonymous “ LOL No. It “clearly” is not.
Challenge yourself, make a list of all the world’s black-majority cities that have low crime rates.”
I’m not doing “all the worlds”, that would be ridiculous for me to make such a list for any race, but for a top 10 let’s try Bridgetown Barbados, Victoria Seychelles, Port Antonio Jamaica, Kigali Rwanda, Tamale Ghana, Accra Ghana, Port Louis Mauritius, Maun Botswana, São Tomé S&P and St John’s Antigua.
Now how about you challenge yourself to make a list of majority black countries that weren’t pillaged by colonizers as recently as 1960. For the few that were independent sooner I challenge you to use your brain and think how being isolated from trade, resources and wealth further harmed the people of these nations. Do you think places like Venezuela, El Salvador, and Iraq are violent because it’s in these people’s blood to be violent? Why then is the UAE practically devoid of crime? Why is crime so much higher in the Philippines than it is in Japan? How about Russia vs Germany? You can deny the effect on resources and wealth on crime throughout the world all you want, but the evidence is clear to anyone who can think and get over their preconceived stereotypes and prejudices. That might be a good New Years resolution for you.
CK07:
“You can deny the effect on resources and wealth on crime throughout the world all you want, but the evidence is clear to anyone who can think and get over their preconceived stereotypes and prejudices.”
***************************
Resources play a role but there is such a thing as propensity for violence among certain peoples and cultures. You can’t read the numbers any other way after controlling for other factors and confirmation bias. Not acknowledging that is … well … stereotypical. I say that a member of the suspect group.
“You can deny the effect on resources and wealth on crime throughout the world all you want, but the evidence is clear to anyone . . .”
It is a myth that poverty causes crime. Crime is *not* the result of determinist factors, such as economic conditions. Crime is caused by individual choice — a series of bad choices over a period of time.
For a full explanation of this crime myth (and many others), see the ground-breaking work of Dr. Stanton Samenow: _Inside the Criminal Mind (Newly Revised Edition)_.
“The critical factor in becoming a criminal justice statistic is not race or ethnicity [or economic conditions] ; it is the character of the individual and the choices he makes. It is unwarranted and racist to assume that because a person is poor and black (or brown, red, or yellow) he is inadequate to cope responsibly with his environment and therefore can hardly help but become a criminal.” (Samenow)
“This is clearly a product of poverty…..”
Such is the arrogance of the Left, having such broad generalizations of the poor
Equating violence and poverty is bigotted and a true disservice to lots of moral folks I know and represent.
@mespo Desperate people are more likely to act desperately. If you’re poor and in a hopeless situation you’re more likely to be desperate. If you’re handed a silver spoon you’re very unlikely to be. What’s bigoted about stating that? Equating people’s to violent propensity by their nature on the other hand would seem to fit the description of bigotry. Culture is one thing. It’s taught, learned, passed on throughout ones environment. Nature is another entirely. Do people really think those who started life wealthy regardless of race are likely to commit violent crimes? What would the motive be?
@mespo Desperate people are more likely to act desperately. If you’re poor and in a hopeless situation you’re more likely to be desperate.
Almost no one is in what would have been called a ‘desperate situation’ the year my father was born. The exception thereto would be the vagrant population. Vagrants may be a problem in excess of their numbers, but since they only account for 0.25% of the population, they’re unlikely to be the source of aught but an odd current of crime most places.
Your argument suffers from a reality: Real per capital product has increased > 5-fold in the last 90 years. Absent a complicated multi-variate analysis, it’s hard to discern any effect on the frequency of crime. It’s frequency goes up and down according to its own rhythm. Note, one of the periods of rapidly escalating crime rates was that running from 1960 to 1973. You’d be hard put to locate a period in American history where per capita income in real terms was growing more rapidly. What fragmentary data we have indicates that income distribution at that time was more equalitarian than any other in the last 90 years.
Here’s a suggestion: the impulse to crime is derived from character defect which also injure your capacity to build human capital and navigate the labor market. ‘Poverty’ isn’t a cause, but a function of your confounding variable.
Flushing New York’s Chinese neighborhood iin Queens, perhaps not poor, perhaps working class, and far less affluent than Manhattan, But it is very safe. Old ladies can walk around there at night. And do.
Can they do that in the black boroughs?
Im going to tell you flat out what we all know. Asian people are less prone to violent crime as a group than blacks. Across the income spectrum. You can argue about white people and parse whites all you like. So let’s just take whitey out of the equation. now it becomes even more clear. The difference between Asians as a group and blacks as a group is completely and totally obvious where violent crime rates are concerned. You know it is true and feel free to go look those FBI statistics up and the comparison will be stark.
I find it tiresome that people can all agree on this and yet in writing on the internet everyone pretends it is not so. Let’s quit telling lies. Groups have tendencies. They may be strengths or weaknesses in any particular set of circumstances. I do not think anybody expects to see a lot of Asians take over the jobs in the NBA in spite of one exception. There are cultural reasons but hello there are also at times strictly hereditary biological ones too. There are exceptions but there are tendencies. Just as some golden retriever can’t fetch most of them do it purely on instinct. If you want to avoid dogs that can mange with bites then dont get a pit bull even though they are swell. We all know these things. I had a rottweiler and he was much like all the other ones. Breeds have tendencies and that is why we know they are breeds. Humans have breeds too. It does not always matter but sometimes it does. The world is a big place and all breeds have a place in our shared existence but they are real and they are different.
Again we all know this and it’s a lie to pretend otherwise. But go ahead, keep on lying, call me racist, I could care less.
Saloth Sar
@anonymous having family in and from flushing meadows myself I’m well familiar with it. Are you familiar with the fact that in 1960 the Asian population in the US was under 1 million and today is over 20million. That means 95% of Asians in America have no history here prior to the civil rights movement. That is hardly a fair comparison from a perspective of family history, family structure, relationship with the government, hope etc.
We still have a hard time convincing blacks to take the vaccine due to a high dose of skepticism based on the Tuskegee experiments from the 40s. Sure some percentage of Japanese Americans have ties to the concentration camp horrors of WW2 which the US has officially apologized for and provided reparations. Is it really fair to compare working class families in flushing meadows from families ripped apart by a discriminatory war on drugs and moved out of projects?
In your racial analysis it would be far more apt to compare Asian Americans who moved here recently to African immigrants who moved here recently, and African Americans whose parents and grandparents have been here presegregation with Native Americans who’s ancestors survived being forced into reservations and have similarly been screwed over by the govt.
Allow me to introduce a few quotes from the bureau of justice statistics in 1999 (a year when crime was particularly high in the black community):
“ Rates of violence in every age group are higher among American Indians than that of all races.”
“ Nearly a third of all American Indian victims of violence are between ages 18 and 24. This group of American Indians experienced the highest per capita rate of violence of any racial group consid- ered by age & about 1 violent crime for every 4 persons of this age.”
“ Rates of violent victimization for both males and females are higher among American Indians than for all races. The rate of violent crime experienced by American Indian women is nearly 50% higher than that reported by black males.”
“ More than 10% of American Indian nonlethal violent victimizations involved a firearm. American Indian murder victims were less likely to have been murdered by a handgun than victims
of all races.”
“ American Indian arrest rates for violence among youth were about the same as the rates among white youth in 1996”
Worth noting the rate of crime is the same but unlike black neighborhoods which have been overrun by illegal guns including handguns and semi automatic weapons that aren’t sold in the US, most violent crime doesn’t involve guns. Also on Indian territory they are subject to tribal law and in essence not policed by the majority thus the arrest rates are about the same as the majority. You change those factors and the picture is largely the same as it is for blacks.
Now let’s compare Asian Americans to black immigrants.
Blacks and latinos are far more likely to be stopped and subject to violence by police under suspicion of crimes than whites or Asians regardless of immigration status so let’s get that out of the way for why the numbers won’t be exactly the same. According to Census data from the American Community Survey the incarceration rate for native born blacks is 4.27% compared with 1.95% for Hispanics, .9% for whites and .49% for Asians. Among black legal immigrants that rate is just .57% compared with .31% for whites, .68% for Hispanics and .21% for Asians.
In 2021 may you find new eyes to see that race is largely a social construct. We are all humans and while society and culture can dictate certain norms, our character isn’t determined by what “race” we’re born into. The environmental factors, prejudicial treatment, upbringing and economic factors have far more to do with the decisions we make.
“The environmental factors, prejudicial treatment, upbringing and economic factors have far more to do with the decisions we make.”
That is the fundamental flaw in your argument. You blame crime on anything and everyone — except the individual criminal. Your deterministic view of man’s nature paints criminals as “victims” of circumstances that are beyond their control. As such, according to your view of crime, those “victims” deserve a get-out-of-jail-free card.
What’s particularly disgusting about this pity campaign for criminals is that it completely ignores innocent, law-abiding citizens — those who have been robbed, raped, murdered — and those who will be in the future, by the scum who benefit from your various “catch-and-release” programs.
People that sell drugs, belong to gangs, rob stores and people, murderers and rapists generally have lower income levels.
The mouth is there. The brain is not.
whats your excuse?
The number of murders you commit online here and elsewhere and rape Turley’s reputation and others are related to what exactly? It cant be poverty because you troll these boards nonstop with multiple sockpuppets so it must be due to….? Evil? Hate? Arrogance? S & M?
You are plain dumb. Do you think “People that sell drugs, belong to gangs, rob stores etc.” are in the higher income groups?
One can’t figure out what happened to your ability to think.
“rape Turley’s reputation ”
That is what your friends do.
In 2015, according to the FBI, blacks killed 500 whites and whites killed 229 blacks.,
Which tells you something your handlers told you not to acknowledge. The notion that lethal violence characterizes the treatment of blacks by whites is an utter fraud. Less than 10% of the blacks who die by homicide each year die at the hands of non-blacks.
Why should Turley talk about white “crime” against black people? The vast majority of the MSM sensationalizes it every day and they also ignore black on white crime. For interracial crime, blacks commit 90% of it. It used to be 85% a few years back, now it’s higher. You can thank Dem leaders, academia, and BLM stoking the resentment and hate. Blacks commit 560,000 VIOLENT crimes against whites vs 99,000 white on black crimes. Every year. This doesn’t include homicides. And since blacks and whites are mostly segregated, one can argue that blacks are purposely seeking out whites to rob, assault, rape, and carjack.
@Seacrest Smith This is a legal blog. Turley should focus on cases that are interesting from a legal perspective. I don’t know what is interesting about this case, it seems fairly cut and dry minus how long you should sentence them for because they’re minors. If we’re just going by the numbers the majority of crime posts should be about black on black, white on white, Latin on Latin crime because that’s the bulk of reported crime that exists. As an aside you note one type of crime is increasing rapidly in spite of segregation as evidence of purposeful action while ignoring gentrification spreading rapidly as those with wealth increasingly move into neighborhoods with those with less than 10% of it.
I will give you that the kid who decided to wait 3 years to tattle on his classmate is interesting from a legal perspective but that has been heavily reported on elsewhere too if we’re saying he should ignore major headlines. What both of these stories have in common is they’re likely to alienate white from black and they’re fodder for the far right. Having followed Turley for some time I doubt the former could be his motive, but knowing how big his following has grown and what it’s largely made up of now I have to wonder about the latter.
There are only 22 times as many of the former as of the latter.
They all need to go to jail. What a disgusting and senseless crime. The extensive criticism of the place makes criminals think they do as they choose and it’s working!
Their sense of impunity is fully justified as none of them will suffer the slightest ill effect from this incident.
Simple solution. What needs to happen is that some of these people need to be badly injured or die in their assaults. Eventually the rest of them will figure out this is not a clever policy.
Had that been my car… there would have been blood on the fenders.
CS: And I would’ve used a second clip.
@sam, I can’t respond to your latest post but with regard to crime and poverty, far be it from me to suggest that the rich don’t commit crime or that criminals shouldn’t be held accountable for their actions. My point was on the subject of violent crime you’re far more likely to find it in impoverished areas than well to do areas and it has to do with logic and despair.
A man like Donald Trump has no need to hold someone up at gunpoint to rob them of their money or valuables. The risk reward ratio in comparison to his wants and needs would make it illogical. Other crimes such as tax fraud, misrepresentation and bribery do not seem to be beyond him but that is a subject for another discussion.
In any major country you visit, going to its wealthiest most privileged neighborhoods will be safer than traveling its poorest most overcrowded areas. That’s true from here to Istanbul, Russia to the Philippines. A man living in the middle of violence and abject poverty in the most overcrowded areas of Venezuela is still accountable for his actions, but the choices he’s confronted with are as logically different from those we in the middle class in America face just as the choices a starved pilgrim in Jamestown faced a logically different set of choices from a descendent who is a wealthy glutton today.
Should say *here to Turkey. I was thinking about one of Istanbul’s more dangerous neighborhoods in comparison to Cappadocia. No edit button.
Mr. Torgovnick would have been justified in responding aggressively since he and his mother feared for their lives.
A 5,000 pound vehicle would have made short work of the assailants and gotten him to safety.
But in today’s world, Mr. Torgovnick would probably have faced at least vehicular assault charges and endured a year of stress and media scrutiny.
And no cops.
No good way to have handled that situation; Mr. Torgovnick was lucky.