Below is my column in USA Today on the need for a federal commission on the 2020 election. While I opposed the challenge and the call for the ten-day commission, I do believe that a real commission is warranted. Indeed, the violence yesterday only further shows the deep divisions in this country over these lingering questions. However, there must be the commitment to a real commission — not another placebo commission
Here is the column:
I hate federal commissions. I have always hated federal commissions. Federal commissions are Washington’s way of managing scandals. They work like placebos for political fevers, convincing voters that answers and change are on the way. That is why it is so difficult for me to utter these words: We need a federal election commission. Not the one proposed by some Senate Republicans. And not like past placebo commissions. An honest-to-God, no-holds-barred federal commission to look into the 2020 presidential election.
With the challenge to the certification of election votes, some Republican members of Congress are calling to delay the proceedings for 10 days and impanel a commission to “audit” the results. There is precedent for such a commission. Just not good precedent. Indeed, citing the Electoral Commission of 1877 as a model of good constitutional process is like citing the Titanic as a model of good maritime navigation. The commission was an utter disaster.
The 1876 election commission
The commission was formed after the contested 1876 presidential election of Democrat Samuel Tilden and Rutherford Hayes. Tilden won the popular vote and was just one vote short of the electoral votes needed to win the White House. The election was marred by open fraud, including South Carolina certifying a vote of 101% of the eligible voters.
As a compromise, the commission was formed and consisted of 15 members: five Supreme Court justices and five members from each chamber of Congress. The key was that it was supposed to be composed of seven Democrats, seven Republicans and one independent. However, in a move that seemed calculated to secure his vote for Tilden, the Illinois legislature then moved to appoint the independent, Justice David Davis, to the Senate. If they wanted to buy his vote, it was a colossal failure when Davis decided to take the seat and leave the commission. He was replaced by a Republican, and the commission voted along strictly partisan lines to install Hayes, not Tilden.
In many ways, the Electoral Commission was a model for most federal commissions, which are designed for good politics and not good government.
An example is the 9/11 Commission, which was stacked with reliable allies to guarantee that no one — and no party — would be blamed for the negligence leading to up to the attacks.
The commission spent two years and millions of dollars. It went to almost a dozen countries, interviewed more than 1,000 people and archived over 2.5 million pages of documents. The result was a report that blamed no one specifically and since concluded that Presidents Bill Clinton and George W. Bush were “not well served,” in the words of the commission’s chairman, by the FBI and CIA.
You see, if everyone is responsible, no one is responsible. Despite showing that the attacks could have been prevented under existing laws and powers, the budgets and powers of both agencies were then massively increased.
That is not what we need. There are three reasons why the need for a real commission is needed:
►First, and most important, this was an unprecedented election in the reliance of mail-in voting and the use of new voting systems and procedures. We need to review how that worked down to the smallest precincts and hamlets.
►Second, possibly tens of millions of voters believe that this election was rigged and stolen. I am not one of them. However, the integrity of our elections depends on the faith of the electorate.
Roughly 40% of that electorate have lingering doubts about whether their votes actually matter. Most of the cases challenging the election were not decided on the merits. Indeed, it seems they haven’t even been allowed for discovery. Instead, they were largely dismissed on jurisdictional or standing groups or under the “laches” doctrine that they were brought too late. Those allegations need to be conclusively proven or disproven in the interests of the country.
►Third, there were problems. There was not proof of systemic fraud or irregularities, but there were problems of uncounted votes, loss of key custodial information and key differences in the rules governing voting and tabulations.
We have spent billions to achieve greater security and reliability after prior election controversies. Indeed, we had a prior election commission that failed to achieve those fundamental goals.
The importance of having a commission
A real commission will take a couple years to fully address these allegations. It will be meaningless if it’s stacked by the same reliable political cutouts used historically in federal commissions. It should be formed on a commitment of absolute transparency with public hearings and public archiving of underlying material before the issuance of any final report. That way, the public at large can analyze and contribute to the review of this evidence.
There is one other task for Congress. It should rescind and replace the Electoral Count Act passed after the Hayes-Tilden election. It is one of the worst conceived and crafted federal laws on the books. The constitutionality of that act has long been challenged, including some who argue that Congress has nothing but a purely ceremonial role in opening state certifications and counting them.
Courts are likely to recognize that Congress has a more substantive role, particularly when rivaling sets of electors are presented or there is clear evidence of fraud. However, the validity of such electoral votes should be left largely to the courts in challenges in the given states. That is why the current challenge is unwarranted. There is no serious basis to challenge the validity of the electoral votes certified by the states.
Reality check for Trump’s fantasies:Judges aren’t his pawns on election lawsuits.
The main challenge, however, remains the same: Whether Congress can appoint a real federal commission without rigging the result by appointing partisan members. In 1877, to quote from a speech of Ohio Sen. Allen Granberry Thurman, “It was perfectly clear that any bill that gave the least advantage, ay, the weight of the dust in the balance, to either party, could not become the law of the land.”
Nothing has changed. The stakes are too high to allow even a dust particle to tip the difference on the ultimate findings. The dust-free option requires a dependent, not independent, commission. Otherwise, the public will be the loser.
So, let’s have a commission, but let’s make it a real one.
Jonathan Turley is the Shapiro Professor of Public Interest Law at George Washington University and a member of USA TODAY’s Board of Contributors. Follow him on Twitter: @JonathanTurley
“The commission was formed after the contested 1876 presidential election of Democrat Samuel Tilden and Rutherford Hayes. Tilden won the popular vote and was just one vote short of the electoral votes needed to win the White House. The election was marred by open fraud, including South Carolina certifying a vote of 101% of the eligible voters.
As a compromise, the commission was formed and consisted of 15 members: five Supreme Court justices and five members from each chamber of Congress. The key was that it was supposed to be composed of seven Democrats, seven Republicans and one independent. However, in a move that seemed calculated to secure his vote for Tilden, the Illinois legislature then moved to appoint the independent, Justice David Davis, to the Senate. If they wanted to buy his vote, it was a colossal failure when Davis decided to take the seat and leave the commission. He was replaced by a Republican, and the commission voted along strictly partisan lines to install Hayes, not Tilden.”
Turley usually limits himself to rewriting recent history but he’s outdone himself in making the disputed election of 1876 simply a failure of a commission. The election was decided in a backroom deal that allowed the Republican (then considered the good guys who had eliminated slavery and got passed the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments and made Reconstruction possible) to become President while the Democrat Tilden who by all rights should have won, lost.
The Compromise of 1877 (Google it, don’t take my word) let Hayes become President if he promised to remove federal troops from the south which effectively ended Reconstruction and ushered in Jim Crow. The following year, Hayes gave us Posse Comitatus which made sure federal troops could never return to protect the recently freed slaves. Democrats and the South got more out of losing the election than they ever could have got if Tilden won and had to work with a Republican Congress.
Based Professor Turley’s post, I just started a petition on Change .org/Support-Free-and-Fair-Election-Commission. No matter your political stripe, we should all want election integrity. I hope you’ll take a moment to sign it. Thank you!
If 75+ million voters have no hope future elections will give them an opportunity to have their voices heard, you know, not be disenfranchised, then they will have to choose between submission or defiance. I don’t care what you call it, how it’s done or who’s involved, every effort must be made to convince these voters that they have a future in how this republic moves forward. Anything short of that will be an admission by the political leadership that these people are not deserving of an equal security of rights.
the plan is to cull the herd. depopulation. so this is a good outcome for the billionaires because if the herd culls itself so much the better
get ready for full blown centre-left totalitarianism now
social media locking down with powers of censorship king george never dreamed of
well it’s sure been an interesting 2021 so far
next time, riot at the Federal Reserve. oh– and have a real plan
+10
Tucker Carlson’s monologue last night nailed it:
As long as people sincerely believe they can change things by voting, they stay calm. They don’t storm the bastille. They don’t burst into the House chamber,” Carlson said.
“They talk and they organize and they vote. But the opposite is also true. If people begin to believe that their democracy is fraudulent, if they conclude that voting is a charade, that the system is rigged and it’s run in secret by a small group of powerful dishonest people who are acting in their own interests, then God knows what could happen.
“Actually, we do know what could happen. It’s happening right now. It’s happened in countless other countries over countless centuries, and the cycle is always the same because human nature never changes.
“‘Listen to us!’ screams the population. ‘Shut up and do what you’re told,’ reply their leaders. In the face of dissent, the first instinct of illegitimate leadership is to crack down on the population. But crackdowns never make it better. Instead, they always make the country more volatile and more dangerous. The people in charge rarely understand that …”
Now, obviously, Democrats and their establishment media allies have already made it clear they’re not going to accept that.
The social media giants of Facebook and Twitter have all but banned any questioning about the credibility of former Vice President and now President-elect Joe Biden’s victory. The establishment media has adopted the party line on the topic with a knee-jerk uniformity that would gladden the heart of a Joseph Goebbels.
None of that will change the fact that while the violence on Wednesday was utterly inexcusable, it was by no means inexplicable.
For tens of millions of Americans who voted in good faith for Donald Trump, a man they saw standing up to a corrupt political-media complex that attacked him relentlessly as a candidate, then even more ferociously after his unlikely upset of Hillary Clinton in 2016, the party line isn’t working.
Those tens of millions of Trump supporters watched as a baseless accusation of “Russia collusion,” originated and paid for by the Clinton campaign, plagued Trump’s presidency with a “special counsel” investigation that was revealed as a malicious farce when the truth finally came out.
Then they watched a blind, power-mad partisan impeachment effort — based on the flimsiest of charges — go bust.
Then they saw Trump’s presidential re-election campaign unfold in the face of the worst health crisis the world has seen in a century, amidst unceasing attacks by every institution of American society — the establishment media, the cultural elites of Hollywood and academia — while his opponent was received with obsequious treatment that would make Stalin blush.
(The fact that the Hunter Biden story was not only ignored by the establishment media, but actively, unimaginably suppressed by social media, is a part of the 2020 election story that will take years to be fully appreciated.)
And still, they turned out by the tens of tens of millions — giving Trump 10 million more votes than he received in 2016, only to watch those votes defeated in a handful of cities run by Democratic machines in a handful of states, some with richly deserved reputations for corruption.
Then they watched courts turn away election challenges for seemingly spurious reasons, or for no reason at all. They listened as the establishment media repeatedly referred to Trump’s charges as “baseless” in the face of countless apparently credible allegations to the contrary, and without even a modicum of effort to establish the truth of the matter.
And now, the same establishment media that spent almost an entire year spreading the myth of the “mostly peaceful” riots that stormed through cities nationwide is shocked that a demonstration in D.C. turned violent?
What happens next, though, is crucial. And there Carlson delivered a warning: Jan. 6 is going to become the pretext for the powers that think they’ve defeated Trump but still have good reason to fear the movement he gave voice to.
“What happened today will be used by the people taking power to justify stripping you of the rights were born with as an American,” Carlson predicted.
“Your right to speak without being censored, your right to assemble, to not be spied upon, to make a living, to defend your family, most critically. These are the most basic and ancient freedoms that we have. They are why we live here in the first place. They’re why we are proud to be Americans. They are what make us different, and they’re all now in peril.”
Then he addressed the country’s leadership:
“When thousands of your countrymen storm the Capitol building, you don’t have to like it. We don’t,” he said.
“You can be horrified by the violence, and as we said and we’ll say it again, we are horrified. It’s wrong. But if you don’t bother to pause and learn a single thing from it, from your citizens storming your Capitol building, then you’re a fool. You lack wisdom and you lack self-awareness. You have no place running a country.”
Those are words the newly empowered Democrats are unlikely to take to heart. In fact, it’s a message they’re probably going to reject entirely. But that doesn’t mean it’s going away.
The violence in the Capitol on Wednesday was inexcusable, it’s true, but it was also a symptom of something much deeper at play.
And that’s a lesson those in Washington, the establishment media and the social media industry don’t seem willing to learn.
Carlson’s monologue Wednesday night was a warning for Americans about their government. What happened Wednesday afternoon should be a warning, too.
https://www.westernjournal.com/tucker-carlson-issues-major-warning-aftermath-capitol-incursion/?utm_source=Email&utm_medium=aa-breaking&utm_campaign=can&utm_content=firefly&ats_es=4b5c429f887fae96cbd6b730a05ed04b
Well, the presupposition of your remarks would be
1. There’s reason to believe elections administration is a mess in this country and
2. Trump supporters are actual citizens who have interests which should be taken into account in public policy.
Both suppositions will enrage the Correct-the-Record crew on these boards.
Now that your boy has been certified you’re willing to look into the election. Hypocrisy much?
Jonathan, regardless of any commissions, the truth will be exposed.
The data alone is irrefutable, and the sheer number of amateurish criminal clowns that had to be employed to pull it off guarantees that the fraud will be bathed in sunlight for all to see.
It is also important to understand that there are very wealthy people who will make sure that the election fraud will be brought to light.
The most important thing we learned yesterday is that there are still very large numbers of people very angry about this.
It will take some time for the facts to come to light – but they will. The news will mostly – but not completely bury it.
But it will come out eventually.
The hope of the left is that by the time it does few will care.
What happened at the capital tells us that is not so.
I do not think it is a commission that we need. Although, I understand the sentiment. But we seem too fractured and thus self-righteous about our righteousness that we cannot find a few good people who all would believe.
I submit two alternative options as a nation of adults we need address:
^ We, the people of each state, need to call on our respective legislatures to hold themselves to being responsible for the Constitutional Rights, Duties and Responsibilities given to them. In most, if not each, of the 2020 ‘battleground states, the Sec of State and Gov did the legislature’s constitutional job. Furthermore, It is our right and responsibility to hold them to theirs.
^ A second and equally important issue is voters. So few do and so very few actually take time to learn and understand the issues and sides. We, the voters, have also given up our Right and Responsibility as voters
to vote wisely. We are selling our souls and our country to the lowest bidder who often then charges us for
the pickup. We engage in a free-for-all that cracking our structure into a free-fall scenerio.
This is not the first election with issues. It is the first with overt salacious media tacticle presence on all sides.
We need look in the mirror to see who is the responsible one that we can change.
Once again we are at a crossroads but this time perhaps all sides of us are against and none for the US.
For the most part the recent debacle had nothing to do with legislatures.
The unconstitutionality and lawlessness was on the part of the executive and courts.
That can not be fixed by traditional means.
How do you get a trust worthy election when those running the election are not trustworthy ?
While I beleive we had massive fraud in this election. that does not matter.
So long as people beleive that elections will not be conducted fairly – they are not going to trust elections.
A failure of trust on the part of govenrment ultimately leads to violence.
The forces that have brought us to where we are now, are NOT going away.
WE are nowhere near a point at which the two sides of the debate could come to a peaceful accomodation – and we are headed away from that as fast as we can travel.
If Trump and his allies (like Lin Wood) hadn’t lied to his supporters, that women who was shot after breaking into the Capitol yesterday would still be alive. She and the rest of them were there because of those lies.
What is it that Lin Wood or Trump lied about ?
Regardless you have a very bizzarre world view. You seem to think that Trump voters are manipulated.
Trump voters got what they wanted from Trump. Not the other way arround.
What happened yesterday was not the consequence of some grand scheme on the part of Trump.
It is a consequence of the actions of the left – not just this summer but over the past 12+ years.
The same people who are telling us that Trump is a vile racist are the ones who just 8 years ago told us Mitt Romney was a vile racist.
And if Mitt had been president for the past four years would be saying the same of him today.
Trump was elected because of YOU, and nothing has changed – except that you changed the rules of the game.
You have not reduced the number of people that want a leader like Trump – there are 10M more of them today.
Tomorow is coming. To hold power you must:
Not create any more people that want a leader like Trump – a daunting task given that you created Trump and Trump supporters int he first place and you still do not understand that.
You must somehow manage to conduct all future elections in the same lawless way as this one – otherwise you will lose badly.
You must somehow manage to prevent republicans from matching your tactics – pretty much ever increasingly lawless step democrats have taken has resulted in republicans matching it shortly after – usually to great success.
And you must succeed at governing under circumstances where the odds are heavily against you and you are clueless about that.
Turley has it wrong.
Its not a matter of the courts being pawns but that Trump knew or at least suspected that the level of fraud would rise to the level where the courts would have to get engaged.
(It would be interesting if JW could use FOIA to get emails to see if the courts communicated on this issue. )
But I digress. Roberts should be censured because SCOTUS should have heard several cases concerning the irregularities and questions of legality of some of the rules that these states put in to place. That is one case that had to go to SCOTUS.
Namely the PA judge who tossed the case regarding Act 77 based on the doctrine of laches.
Laches can never be applied when it comes to a lawsuit regarding a question of constitutionality of a bill.
This is actually a good topic for Dershowitz, Turley or any professor who specializes in constitutional law.
At the same time. Wisconsin State Legislature erred because their supreme court told them that their election officials erred by allowing individuals to cite COVID in order to get an absentee ballot by claiming indefinitely confined. They should have met to de-certify the election.
There’s more which also goes to Turley’s editorial about having a special commission on 2020’s voters fraud case.
laches also can not apply where the petitioner is a standin for the rights of the people as a whole.
Trump is not entitled to a fair election. There is no right to be elected president – not for Trump, not for Biden, not for republicans, not for democrats.
But the people have the right to a constitutional and legal election. That right can not be thwarted by legal nonsense like laches or standing or ….
What we are seeing is a consequence of lawlessness. When govenrment is lawless – violence follows.
Left, Right it does not matter.
NO COMMISSION NEEDED IF LIES AREN’T GIVEN FUEL
Over the four years of Donald Trump’s presidency, people in charge of elections in both major parties have warned that his continued peddling of falsehoods about elections could one day lead to violence.
Now, as a mob took over the U.S. Capitol on Wednesday, those predictions have come true.
“Every elected leader who helped spread lies about American elections paved the way to today,” said Colorado Secretary of State Jena Griswold.
While many Americans looked at their televisions in shock Wednesday, those in charge of elections seem to have seen it as the natural evolution of a growing problem: A large portion of the country now falsely believes that the electoral process is rigged and that therefore there may be no other alternative than taking to the streets.
It’s a theme that predated Trump within the Republican Party and one that will probably plague American democracy long after Joe Biden is sworn in as president on Jan. 20.
A month ago, a top election official in Georgia, Gabriel Sterling, begged his fellow Republicans to stop spreading conspiracy theories about voting, as it was leading to death threats against officials overseeing that state’s recount.
“Someone’s going to get hurt, someone’s going to get shot, someone’s going to get killed,” Sterling said at the time.
But Trump, as well as many other Republicans in Congress, didn’t heed those warnings. In a phone call with Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger over the weekend, Trump listed a number of debunked conspiracy theories, many of which spawned from extremist corners of the Internet.
On Wednesday, House Republicans mentioned some of those same conspiracy theories in objecting during the Electoral College vote-counting process. And less than two hours later, windows were shattered, at least one person was fatally shot and the entire Capitol building was overrun.
It all could have been avoided, experts say, if those in power told the truth about the legitimacy of the vote.
“WHAT DID THEY THINK WOULD HAPPEN?” tweeted Chris Krebs, a Republican who led the federal government’s election security efforts before being fired by Trump in November. “They own this.”
Krebs oversaw an effort by the Department of Homeland Security to fact-check some of the most pervasive lies about the election over the past two months.
“Yet the President & his campaign/lawyers/supporters fanned the flames for their own selfish reasons,” he said.
“Edited from: “Election Officials Warned: ‘Someone’s Going To Get Shot’. But That Didn’t Stop Trump”
Today’s NPR
The someone who got shot was a trump supporter.
We have 6 months of looting rioting and arson by “mostly peaceful” protestors – not a single protestor was killed by police.
We have 30 minutes of petitioning government by Trump supporters and a protestor is shot.
And you expect to be trusted ?
Exactly. An unarmed woman who also happened to be an American hero occupying public property, i.e. property her tax dollars maintain, was shot by another one of the people who is supposedly paid to protect her. I guess it’s only a “mostly peaceful protest” if you actually burn the place down.
According to John, if he doesn’t know about it, it didn’t happen. Police have killed more than one person during protests in the last year. David McAtee in Louisville is an example.
Ashli Babbitt was not petitioning the government when she was shot. An eye witness said “We had stormed into the chambers inside, and there was a young lady who rushed to the windows. A number of police and Secret Service were saying, ‘Get back. Get down. Get out of the way.’ She didn’t heed the call, and as we kind of raced up to grab people and pull them back, they shot her in the neck.”
Your correct – the National Guard did fire on and Kill David McAffee – AFTER he fired on them.
Wikipedia
“According to officials, the police and soldiers were fired upon by McAtee, and two Louisville officers and two National Guardsmen returned fire.
Ashli Babbitt was unarmed.
I have absolutely no problems with the police returning fire against BLM. Antifa, or Trump supporters.
One’s mind needs to have the ability to notice the difference between firing back at someone who has already been firing at you and firing at one who is unarmed. Some were never provided with that gift.
Some don’t have the gift of understanding that John was wrong when he said “not a single protestor was killed by police.”
The national guard is not the police.
So now you have ONE protestor killed – in 9 months of violence – by the national guard – not police.
WHILE SHOOTING AT POLICE!!!!
“Some don’t have the gift of understanding ”
that would be your problem not mine.
National Guard != Police.
Armed active shooter != protestor.
I am constantly raising the justified use of force.
It is almost always justified to use force against someone who has initiated force against you.
That is a principle accepted in almost the entire world.
Translation: you were wrong when you said “We have 6 months of looting rioting and arson by “mostly peaceful” protestors – not a single protestor was killed by police.” It’s just hard for you to say “I was wrong.”
Ashli Babbit had already broken into the Capitol Building and was outside the Speaker’s Lobby trying to break into it. That’s a section that’s normally off-limits to most visitors and even to many staff, the hallway leading to the Speaker’s entry door to the House floor. The police on their side of the locked door did not injure them. They had already broken the glass of the locked door, and they could see that there was an armed officer with his gun pointed at them on the other side, and they were being warned about him by a fellow protester. She was trying to climb through the broken window to get into the Speaker’s Lobby. I’m not saying that she deserved to be shot, but she had already committed more than one felony, and she wasn’t stopping. A reminder that most members of Congress were being protected inside the building, the officer did not know whether protesters were armed or what they might do to members of Congress if they reached them.
Better video than I’d previously seen of what occurred, which shows that she was shot when she tried to go through the broken window of the door into the Speaker’s Lobby –
https://twitter.com/AlexThomp/status/1347638418952638468
Pete Schroeder of Reuters describes the Speaker’s Lobby: “No entry without a badge (with officers scanning each badge at the door). Not even all congressional staff have access. Arguably the most secure frequently used room in the Capitol (in large part because the hallway has numerous doors leading directly to the House floor.” If you want to see a tour of it, youtube.com/watch?v=M-aTwl5U61Q
Why do you think YOUR video helps you ?
Is the standard for protests occupying government buildings – that you can not go past locked doors ?
Or somewhere that is purportedly secure ?
Watching YOUR video, I saw legitimate peaceful protests.
There was no looting or defacing in YOUR video.
At the point of the shooting – there was a barricade with a large open space behind it – there were not congressmen in imminent danger.
There were no protestors brandishing weapons – until AFTER the Police shot a protestor.
Nothing was burned.
in 2018 anti-trump protestors stormed the capital during the Kavanaugh hearings.
We did not here these idiotic claims that was somehow unacceptable.
And yes this actually is “petitioning the government”.
As to your idiotic argument – did the police shoot BLM and Antifa protestors when they refused to heed their instructions ?
Did they shoot “protestors” when they were rioting and looting ?
If you condemned the actions yesterday but did not condemn the Kavanaugh protests and the 6 months of violence this summer and the continuous nonsense in Portland – then you are a vile hypocrit.
I can listen to those arguing against the what happened at the capital – if they are critical of the same violence elsewhere.
Here is a video from MSNBC – that I find amazingly self unaware.
Activists from BLM are actually blaming the police for encouraging this.
https://rumble.com/vcjazv-blm-activists-insist-police-actively-allowed-designed-violence-at-the-capit.html?mref=23gga&mc=8uxj1
And try this video out – Trump protestors at the capital actively STOPPING Antifa members from breaking windows at the capital.
https://video.parler.com/yK/zC/yKzCS6NqCVea.mp4
“too many see the protests as the problem. No, the problem is what forced your fellow citizens to take to the streets: persistent, and poisonous, inequities and injustice, Please, show me where it says protesters are supposed to be polite and peaceful. I can show you outraged citizens are what made America what she is and led to any major milestones. Police are the ones who are required to be peaceful, to de-escalate, to remain calm. They are in fact trained to do exactly that,”
https://rumble.com/vcit5n-resurfaced-video-of-cnns-cuomo-shows-how-hypocritical-he-is-on-protesting.html?mref=23gga&mc=8uxj1
The left has spent years condoning violence – Biden has STILL not condemned the violence in portland and over the summer – not even today.
I cited Chris Cuomo before – his remarks are actually correct – but only when government actually fails. When government itself is lawless.
That was not the case in US cities – though I would note – if it actually was the case – then that would be blue cities that were lawless.
In most instances the same blue cities that were lawless in this election.
“Biden has STILL not condemned the violence in portland and over the summer ”
You’re either purposefully ignorant or a liar.
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-biden-condemn-violence/fact-check-joe-biden-has-condemned-violent-protests-in-the-last-three-months-idUSKBN25V2O1
It would be helpful if you read your own article.
Do you have video of Biden unequivocally condemning the violence.
Not hedged statements on websites either blaming Trump or pretending that violence might be justified by racism.
There was violence in Portland every single night all summer – and for months before.
Again WHERE WAS BIDEN ?
Wow – A campaign Press release – that is real leadership!!!
We can certainly expect Biden will be able to step up, end the violence and heal the country.
I have no words. Trump spends literally months undermining the election, and you, William Barr and many others treat his lies as legitimate concerns. And even after the capital is stormed and people die because of these lies, you STILL insist that the claims of fraud need to be taken seriously. This was litigated in the courts! The election stands! If Trump continues to claim victory, his supporters WILL NOT be dissuaded by further investigation into the election. I will say it one more time: what happened at the capital yesterday was not, is not, and never will be about factual fraud with any connection to reality. It was about a man lying to his supporters in an attempt to hang onto power, and you are helping him.
Trump undermined the election?
Hardly.
The evidence of wrong doing supports Trump.
I guess when you listen to the MSM and treat their spin as gospel, you tend to get things backwards.
You confuse words and reality.
Words are important but it is facts that ultimately are reality.
This election was undermined by the lawlessness of those running it.
28 US state constitutions – including 5 of the 6 contested states have constituttional requirements for secret balloting.
Mailin elections are not secret voting. These provisions arrose because of past election fraud that arrises without secret voting.
Very few places in the world allow mailin voting. France requires paper ballots that must be hand counted – and they manage to get election results on the night of the election.
Regardless, in 5 of the 6 states the election that was held violated the constitution of those states.
Yet state governors ignored that and supreme courts allowed it.
So why are we supposed to trust either the governors or the courts ?
If you want to change those constitutions DO SO.
But when you ignore the most fundimental law of the land – you are lawless, and you lose the trust of people.
The courts had the opportunity to prevent this BEFORE the election – by requiring that their state election laws and constitution be followed. They did not. The courts failed BEFORE the election. After the election some hoped they would step up and end the lawlessness. But they did not.
The core issue – which you fail to grasp is NOT the allegations of fraud. It is the lawless conduct of the election itself.
It is not that Mailin elections are a disasterously bad idea, it is that the state constitution, and the state election laws were not followed.
Everything else is a consequence of that.
By failing to follow the law and constitutions – the govenors and courts undermined what little trust we have in them.
These issues were not litigated – but even if they had been – the courts had already lost the trust of the people. The results do not matter.
What you saw in the capital was the LEGITIMATE consequence of lack of trust in government.
Unlike the violence this summer – these protestors “pettitioned the government” – they came to the capital. They demanded actions by government to restore trust.
In consequence they were maced, truncheoned, and shot.
In 6 months of rioting and looting and arson – how many BLM “protestors” were shot by police ? None!.
It only took 30 minutes of peacefully petitioning government before you murdered an unnarmed protestor.
You are under the delustion this is about Trump – it is not.
It is about you. You have made it clear that you will have your way “By any means necescary”.
Why are you surprised that those who oppose you have found that they too must use “any means necescary” ?
To Svelaz, how stupid are you? If Antifa are masquerading as Trump supporters they are NOT going to dress in normal Antifa garb!!! They will dress to look like TRUMP SUPPORTERS ! That is the whole idea of a disguise. To not let people know your true identity. This is the single most stupid statement I have ever read.
Do you have evidence that someone is an Antifa supporter or only assumptions?
It is my understanding that atleast one busload of Antifa members arrived at the capital just before the protest turned into a riot.
It is my understanding that facial recognition software has matched several people involved in the “riots” to BLM, Antifa or other left acts of violence over the summer.
There are lots of rumours running arround – and these might not be true – just as the rumours that militias were infiltrating protests over the summer proved false.
But it fits Antifa’s MO.
Regardless, this is not really the core issue.
The protests at the capital were inherently more legitimate than those protesting George Floyd. The right to petition government is explicit in the constitution. You can go to the capital and demand the attention of government – you can not go to target burn and loot and claim that is legitimate protest.
It would be preferable that there was not violence and mayhem – but what do you expect – the left spent all summer teaching Trump supporters that the way to get attention is through violence. It was wrong before, it is wrong now.
But those on the left can not rant about this violence without drowning in hypocracy. You normalized it, your stick with it.
The fundimental issue is that the government does not have the trust of the people. And if you think that winning a lawless election earns trust – look arround – you are obviously mistaken.
I would further note that lawlessness in government must lead to violence. When you can not trust those running the government, the elections, the courts when they are lying constantly and getting caught, there is no government, there is no law. Violence is the only means.
The social contract is that government will end anarchy, stop unjustified violence – but to do so, it must earn out trust.
It has lost that trust and that has bad consequences – you can not fix that easily.
ANONYMOUS:
Last spring, after George’s Floyd’s death, ANTIFA marched through my neighborhood 7 nights in a row. So I got a very good look at ‘who’ they are.
They were a racially diverse group almost entirely under – 30. And though I didn’t appreciate the marches, they were, for the most part, an orderly group. I didn’t see any White redneck types over 50. None of them looked even vaguely like small town sacks of lard.
Outside of your neighborhood they burned down buildings, looted, rioted, over 1000 police officers were injured a few were killed,
Yet not a single protestor was killed by law enforcement.
It only took 30 min of actually peacefull protests before a Trump supporter was shot.
She was not a white redneck type over 50 or a small town sack of lard. She was 30 and in the airforce.
This is one Trump protestor.
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIF.A6HwvGYSvQxAfCidivkcaw%26pid%3DApi&f=1
Here are some more of those “white redneck types over 50 – small town sacks of lard”
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.any8riODVbixZpCuLd0-lQHaE8%26pid%3DApi&f=1\
More protestors
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIF.fDoSmkvdgVoOgb7z6npBHQ%26pid%3DApi&f=1
see white people? The arrogant Democrats hate your guts. They hate you for what you are.
To a certain extent that’s true but the Antifa people I saw in DC had one defining feature: they wore a mask up to their eyeballs. Most Trump supporters shun masks and those who do wear them wear normal surgical type masks. That’s because they are concerned with their health instead of hiding their identity.
More of Turley trying to provide cover for Trump and his lies. All of these non “issues” have been thoroughly investigated and found to be baseless. It bears repeating: the only reason 40% of Americans think there were problems with the election is because Trump, Fox, OAN, News Max and Breitbar lie to them. Repeatedly. Every day. And they don’t call out the fat orange slob when he announced a call to arms, promising it would be “wild”, insisting that his disciples storm the Capitol to prevent the Electoral College and Pence from doing their duty. The fact that these dumbass gullibles have doubts is not a reason to appoint any commission because there are no grounds for their beliefs, pure and simple. Yes, election procedures were changed, but there is absolutely no proof that fraud was involved or that the vote count was not correct. Suggesting that there should be an investigation provides cover for a lie, and it is wrong. Has the fat one condemned what happened yesterday–hell no! He loves it. It proves he is powerful. It proves he is loved. Turley’s failure to condemn Trump and suggesting there is merit to his lies or that, on any level, the Trumpster Brigade has any valid point, proves he is an opportunist. Turley does know better.
The only reason there is any lack of faith in our elections is because of the lying and because pro-Trump media like Fox, et al, of which I include Turley, refuse to call it out. The only reason for the lies are the character and personality flaws of Donald J. Trump. Then there are the opportunists like Jake Hawley, who wants to co-op support from the deplorables, because of his presidential ambition. Hawley and the other opportunists saw an opportunity to get publicity for their future political ambitions for free–their names on every news station. Hawley has an ivy league education. He clerked for Justice Roberts. He knows better. Taking advantage of this situation for personal political ambition is immoral, and I hope Missourians send him packing.
You are delusional. This is a flatout LIE: “The only reason there is any lack of faith in our elections is because of the lying and because pro-Trump media like Fox, et al, of which I include Turley, refuse to call it out.”
You are delusional. This is a flatout LIE: “All of these non “issues” have been thoroughly investigated and found to be baseless.”
Identify one that hasn’t been investigated and provide evidence that it hasn’t been investigated.
As Turley notes – your claim is false.
Almost nothing has been investigated.
Worse at every turn we found those who “promised” that they were going to seriously look into something did nothing more than a whitewash.
Again as Turley notes – that is commonplace – whether it was the Tillis/Warris commission in 1876 or the 9/11 commission.
Or your claim that “issues” have been looked into and found “baseless”
There are numerous affadavits that observed peoplke running the same ballot through scanners over and over in every key state.
You say that has been investigated – where is the investigation ? Please do not cite, the media or a fact check organization – those are not credible. Nor the courts – they are neither credible, nor do they investigate.
If you want the 40+% who beleive this election was stolen to even grudgingly accept the result – then Turley is completely wrong – you do not need a bi-partisan or non-partisan commission, you need to appoint a zealot like Sydney Powell as special counsel to investigate election integrity, exactly as occured with Mueller – with the one exception that you do not want her abusing the power of the SC office to brow beat people into false confessions or prosecuting people to try to get them to lie.
Nothing would be more effective at restoring trust by those who do not beleive this election was honest – than to have Powell unleashed on it. If there is something to this – she will find it. And if like Mueller she comes up with nothing – then there was nothing to find.
Regardless the major problem right now is a failure of trust – and those who distrust this election are not going to trust the media, the courts, a Biden DOJ or a congress controlled by Democrats. They are only going to trust one of their own.
You should understand that – you are the same way – except you do not even trust your own.
You are delusional. This is a flatout LIE: “Yes, election procedures were changed, but there is absolutely no proof that fraud was involved or that the vote count was not correct.”
You are correct. This is the Truth: “Turley *does* know better.”
Thank God for Professor Turley’s voice of reason.
Natacha – you are entitled to your oppinion on this.
But it is irrelevant WHY 40% of people beleive the election was stolen.
The fact is that they do. And you can not have legitimate government so long as that is true.
If your thesis – that 40% of the people are deluded by nefarious forces – were true, then we are not governable. PERIOD.
It’s not irrelevant WHY 40% of people believe the election was stolen. You cannot address them effectively unless you understand why they falsely believe this.
Until or unless Fox, Breitbart, Limbaugh, OAN, News Max and other pro-Trump media repeatedly say that the election was NOT stolen, the disciples will continue to believe. No “commission” will convince them otherwise, because Trump will continue to insist that there was fraud and that his presidency was stolen from him. Even today, with 4 dead, the Capitol in shambles and Americans’ faith in our government tottering, he continues to claim he was right. Facts can’t faze him because he is mentally ill, and it’s high time media, including pro-Trump media, admit this, but they won’t. Trump cannot accept defeat or rejection because his fragile ego requires affirmation, adulation and attention. He cannot be wrong. His niece, a clinical psychologist, said that she is worried about what he might do when he reaches the absolute end of the line–the point of total desperation–after it fully sinks in that he can’t bully Pence into breaking the law and stop certification of Biden’s Electoral College victory, despite a call to arms by his disciples–because that’s when he will be most dangerous. She couldn’t speculate on how far he might go or how far he might take revenge, other than to say that his illness makes him dangerous and delusional. There are insider reports that he is irrationally raging and fuming. People are resigning right and left. He can’t be allowed to just walk away from the fire he has started without consequences. Republicans have to stand up for America and join Democrats to stop him from at least ever holding office again. He should be impeached immediately. That’s the only way we can stop this insanity once and for all. Trump will never shut up about the “steal” and the disciples will never stop believing so long as Republicans stay silent and won’t stop trying to hitch their wagon to Trump’s dying star. Trump will continue to fund raise from his stupid supporters, who believe that they are contributing to a legal fund to fight the election, but there’s no requirement that the money they donate go to any particular purpose, and he has raised multiple millions. He will continue to hold rallies, because his ego needs affection and attention, and he will argue he is campaigning for 2024. He is a cockroach, and we need to kill any chances of his resurrection once and for all. Impeach the azzhole.
Trump will be out of office in two weeks. He will NOT run again in 2024. But he will continue to have political sway in the Republican party.
Now get busy complaining about Joe Biden’s unacceptable cabinet picks or something useful like that.
Dr. Mary Trump agrees with you–once his ego recovers from the drubbing it got–which may take a very long time–she believes he wouldn’t ever put himself in a position to get creamed again. He couldn’t stand the pain of another public insult to his ego, she believes. Of course, because his mental illness doesn’t allow the truth to creep in. he was still forced out of the White House and his attempts to fight the truth failed. He’ll never stop raging. He can’t because he’s sick.
I’m not so sure he’ll just go away and shut up. It might depend on how successful he is at continuing fund raising, holding rallies, and trying to influence the Republican party. Personally, I think he’ll go down to the realm of infamy and the deplorables will find someone else to carry on their hopes to restore institutional racism. Right now, he’s looking for some place to go. Scotland was notified that he’s planning to arrive there on Air Force Two on the 19th (the day before Biden’s inauguration), but he was told not to come because of COVID regulations. (how convenient). In West Palm Beach, he’s been informed that the restrictive covenants he agreed to for Mar-a-Lago when he converted it from a single-family mansion into a private club, will be enforced. No one can stay there more than 7 days at a stretch, and no more than 2 or 3 weeks per year, so he can’t live there, either. Plus, he has to take out the heliport and boat dock put there for the Secret Service. He’s afraid to go back to New York because there are subpoenas waiting there for him and New York doesn’t want him either. I don’t see him going to Ireland, because the golf club there is closed down due to COVID. No one apparently wants him.
I expect Biden and democrats to be catastrophic failure.
But I have no need to rail about them now.
This is not about cabinet picks. Left right, milquetoast, crooked, zealoted.
Biden will not be judged by the people he appoints. Nor the nonsense that eminates from his mouth.
But by what he accomplishes.
Further Biden does not need anyone on the right to slit his throat – the people who surround him are ready and waiting.
They are saying what their viewers beleive – they are highly unlikely to do as you ask – just as for the past 4 years CNN, MSNBC, NYT, Wapo, …. have all been completely unable to tell their viewers the truth.
We are in the midst of the crusades – and the left has brought us here.
Does AOC move your lips ? Biden ? Pelosi ?
Then why do you presume that 75M people beleive unquestioning what Trump says ?
Lets be clear – YOU made Trump voters. Trump found them – he did not create them.
You are correct – that a commission is not going to accomplish anything.
If you want to change the minds of those who beleive this election was stolen – you must not merely investigate – but you must send the most ferverent beleiver in the stolen election out to investigate thoroughly. You must be prepared to subject the election to serious and brutal scrutiny. But the person that you most fear to do so.
And then you accept the possibility that you will not get the results you want. That they will actually find the massive fraud you are blind to.
“There are insider reports that he is irrationally raging and fuming.”
So ? You are irrational and fuming.
Are you a mad dog that needs put down ?
Trump is the first president since Carter that did not start a new military conflict.
In fact our military had to lie to him to sustain some of the conflicts we were already in.
We could easily have ended up in a war with Iran – John Bolton certainly wanted that.
Iran committed and act of war against the US – yet Trump backed down.
Is that this irrational fuming raging person you are ranting about ?
I can go on an on – over 4 years – we keep hearing from those like you that Trump is dangerous and out of control – and yet the reality is the opposite.
The only people who appear to be dangerous and out of control are you.
“He can’t be allowed to just walk away from the fire he has started without consequences.”
What fire ? On left wing not world is it OK to burn down target and police stations, OK to occuppy wallstreet and Seattle and federal courthouses – all of these are legitimate protest – but occupying the capital building – that is off limits ?
In 6 months or rioting and looting and arson – there was $2-8B in damage by the left. over 1000 police were injured and a few killed,
but not a single member of Antifa or BLM was killed by law enforcement.
It only took 40 minutes for capital police to murder a 30 year old woman – a 14 year airforce veteran.
Did the capital get burned ?
People who are angry over an election that was indespitably unconstitutional and lawless and probably fraudulent petitioned the government – at the capital – you know the seat of government.
What did BLM and Antifa do ? Burn Macy’s and the local food mart because some guy high on fentynal died in police custody.
“Trump will never shut up about the “steal” and the disciples will never stop believing so long as Republicans stay silent”
You seem to think that these people are sheep. That they do whatever Trump or other republicans tell them.
I guess this is not surprising – the ideology of the left is predicated on the view that people are sheep – that they should accept what their betters do for them.
Regardless, these people are not merely Trump supporters – they are YOUR ENEMY. They think – with good reason that you are dangerous and evil. Constantly calling them racists, sexists, hateful hating haters pretty much ensures that they are going to hate you.
You made them who they are – not Trump. You made them your enemy.
“and won’t stop trying to hitch their wagon to Trump’s dying star.”
Trump may be gone. He may not. But THEY are not going anwhere – you have not figured that out yet.
“Trump will continue to fund raise from his stupid supporters, who believe that they are contributing to a legal fund to fight the election, but there’s no requirement that the money they donate go to any particular purpose, and he has raised multiple millions.”
Yup, a billionaire is really juicing a legal fight to raise a few million for himself.
Do you grasp that if Trump blew $1m per day on himself from now until the day he dies – he will not have spent his entire worth ?
“He will continue to hold rallies”
I hope so. Regardless, why does that so annoy you ?
“because his ego needs affection and attention”
He is a politician – they are need attention. What is new.
“and he will argue he is campaigning for 2024.”
Probably. And he may well be doing exactly that.
Regardless, why does that so bother you ?
“He is a cockroach, and we need to kill any chances of his resurrection once and for all. Impeach the azzhole.”
Then I guess we should impeach Biden from violating government ethics laws as Vice president – and possibly violating criminal laws.
Regardless, rather then jump to impeachment everytime someone says something you do not like – maybe you should fugure out whether there is merit in what they are saying. 3
The point of commenting is so that readers will, um, read one’s comments
Your “war and peace” chapters would drive ANTIFA to commit suicide
Brevity John…it pays
“Your “war and peace” chapters would drive ANTIFA to commit suicide”
If only that were true.
“It’s not irrelevant WHY 40% of people believe the election was stolen. You cannot address them effectively unless you understand why they falsely believe this.”
You seem under the delusion that you are entitled to “fix” them. You are not.
They do not think they are broken – they think you are – and you are actually less numoerous than they are.
Most people do not know or do not care. they just want a return to normalacy.
They do not care who wins the election -so long as things calm down.
They do not support the left. They do not support the right.
But again – those 40% that think this election was stolen – they are more numerous that YOU are.
Thought is not as important as the fact that they are sufficiently numerous.
You can not govern if 40% of the people fervently believe that the current government is not legitimate.
Further – you can not overcome the FACT that the election was conducted lawlessly.
In that these 40% are absolutely correct – and you are wrong.
As you do not accept that – it is YOU that are drowning in false information.
Do you need “fixed” ?
Regardless you have been playing uproar for years. You keep escalating the game. This is the outcome.
I just read an editorial explaining how Democrats won in 2020. It is pretty good and it is correct.
Its conclusion is that Republicans must track democrats tactic for tactic.
Is that really what we want ? Do we want 2022 to be about who can cheat the best ? Who can manipulate the laws and the courts ?
Who can bully the best ? Who can lie the most convincingly ?
Well that is where we are headed – and you are leading the charge.
I would note that Democrats have always had an advantage in all of this – they have less scruples, they have an ideology that at its core is the ends justifies the means.
But they have a fatal flaw. Their ideology does not work.
All of the reasons that Trump was elected in 2016 remain today. Biden and democrats have the opportunity to make the country better.
Does anyone actually beleive they can succeed ? Obama failed miserably at that. Biden starts with a far more bitterly divided country.
There are 75M Republican voters out there – most of them are REALLY pissed, and they are not going away.
There is no meaningful unity among democrats. numerous groups contributed to this fraud. They all beleive they are owed – and they are all correct. and they do not come even close to wanting the same thing.
If the left does not get what they want – we can expect a repeat of this summer. And they are certainly not voting for an establishment democrat again.
Conversely if they do get what they want – there will be more than 75M angry voters opposing them in 2022.
Numerous house democrats warned after this election that the party can not keep this leftist garbage up.
If you do not heed them – soon enough you will lose them – and they voters they represent.
Stolen Election.
Consequences?
What happened yesterday is the result of politicians on both sides holding office for 20, 30, 40 years or more. How can they be interested in the nation and the people when they’re more concerned for keeping personal power and fortune? They have all failed the people, the nation and the constitution.
Trust has to be restored to the election process or we become Belarus. How sad that it has come to this that we have now become the Disunited States.
What happened yesterday is the result of politicians on both sides holding office for 20, 30, 40 years or more. How can they be interested in the nation and the people when they’re more concerned for keeping personal power and fortune? They have all failed the people, the nation and the constitution.
Certainly describes San Fran Nan, Cocaine Mitch, and upChuck Schumer. Schumer once worked sporadically for the test prep firm Kaplan. He’s been on government payrolls since 1975, when he was 24 years old. San Fran Nan has a nice mess of kids. She has almost no employment history outside of electoral politics and associated staff positions. She is where she is because she was a protegee of Sala Burton, who (with her husband) held the San Francisco seat from 1965 to 1987. She’s had only one competitive contest for public office in her life: the special election in which she ran to replace Burton. She’s the oldest person ever to sit in the Speaker’s chair. Of the dozens of people who’ve led the party caucuses over the last four generations, She’s hung on longer than all but three, refusing to stand down when she presided over catastrophic losses in 2010. As for McConnell, he flitted for ten years between congressional staff jobs, private law practice, and federal employment before running for county executive in 1977. He’s been in elective office ever since. He is now 78 years old. He and his wife have a 10 digit net worth.