Below is my column in The Hill on the Derek Chauvin trial in Minneapolis. Last week, at least one juror was excused after he expressed fear that he or his family could be attacked after a verdict. (Conversely, another juror called the rioting necessary to advance the Black Lives Matter movement). The man explained that his neighbors had to flee the area after the riots following the death of George Floyd. That fear was shared by various jurors. It is not surprising when the courthouse is ringed in fencing and barbed wire and even police stations in the city are bunkered down. There are already protesters outside of the courthouse and a new “autonomous zone” in the city that is being criticized by police groups. Once again, the news coverage is highly siloed and divergent in such coverage with vastly different images emerging from the city as it prepares for possible rioting. However, it is the divergent coverage of the case itself that is my greatest concern.
The voir dire responses highlight the concern over venue in the case and the decision not to shift the trial to a different city. There is clearly a fear among jurors that there might be rioting if there is an acquittal for Chauvin. The voir dire selection also magnifies the concern over how the case has been covered in the media with the omission of critical defense arguments and evidence. I believe that there was a legitimate basis for a trial, but this is a stronger manslaughter than a murder case. The trial will give us a better view of the evidence but the coverage thus far has been dangerously incomplete in my view, as discussed below.
Here is the column:
Criminal trials have become such a predictable flashpoint for violence that cities create virtual fortresses around courthouses before juries are even seated. That is the case with the Minneapolis trial of Derek Chauvin, the first police officer to be tried for the death of George Floyd last spring.
The rioting that can follow a trial’s verdict is driven by deep-seated, long-standing racial problems. However, commentary by politicians and reporters can worsen those tensions, creating misconceptions of the strengths and weaknesses of cases. For example, before any investigation had been completed, Vice President Kamala Harris, then a United States senator, said Chauvin clearly “murdered” Floyd, while others insisted the crime was open and shut.
Trials, however, are based on the evidence and elements of crimes. They are designed to separate the material from the mythological. A good example is the shooting of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Mo., in 2014, which provoked days of rioting. The shooting was widely called murder by national figures and commentators. To this day, because of wildly inaccurate media coverage, pundits and protesters still refer to Brown holding up his hands and pleading, “Don’t shoot!” However, the officers involved were never charged despite long, repeated federal and state investigations that found no criminal culpability. Indeed, the Obama Justice Department and other investigations refuted the hands up, don’t shoot claim.
Chauvin’s trial has some of the same problematic elements of incomplete or distorted coverage and commentary. It clearly is much stronger than the Michael Brown case — and one can not overestimate the impact of the videotape of Chauvin kneeling on Floyd’s neck for almost 10 minutes as Floyd pleads “I can’t breathe.” The video is seared into the minds of many, provoking anger and disgust. Admittedly, I view cases from the perspective of a longtime defense attorney, but this one has defense points that are rarely reported but could prove decisive in this trial.
The four officers charged — Chauvin, Thomas Lane, Alexander Kueng, Tou Thao — responded to a call alleging that Floyd passed counterfeit money. The first major defense point was captured on body-camera video as Lane spoke to Floyd, sitting in a parked SUV. When Floyd refused to show his hands, Lane pulled his gun and yelled at Floyd to show his hands. After Floyd replied, “Please don’t shoot me, man,” Lane put away his gun and said, “I’m not shooting you, man.”
Floyd is then seen staggering as he is moved to a police cruiser. He admitted he had been “hooping,” or taking drugs. He then resisted getting into the cruiser, saying he was claustrophobic and couldn’t breathe. Lane is heard offering to sit with him, roll down the windows and turn on the air conditioning. Floyd continued to insist “I cannot breathe.” A struggle then led to Floyd on the ground, with Chauvin kneeling on his neck. As shocking as the video image is, Chauvin is likely to cite Minneapolis police training material that describes such restraint for an uncooperative suspect.
The biggest defense point will come from official autopsy and toxicology reports. The autopsy did not cite restraint as the cause of the death, instead citing “cardiopulmonary arrest while being restrained by law enforcement officer(s).” (The family’s autopsy disagrees, citing death by asphyxiation). The preliminary finding of the autopsy “revealed no physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation. Mr. Floyd had underlying health conditions including coronary artery disease and hypertensive heart disease.”
The autopsy states that Floyd had fentanyl and methamphetamine in his system. The level of fentanyl was extremely high, and documents from the autopsy attribute the following statement to Andrew Baker, Hennepin County’s chief medical examiner: “Fentanyl at 11 ng/ml — this is higher than (a) chronic pain patient. If he were found dead at home alone & no other apparent cause, this could be acceptable to call an OD [overdose]. Deaths have been certified w/levels of 3.”
The toxicology report on Floyd’s blood amplifies that point, stating: “In fatalities from fentanyl, blood concentrations are variable and have been reported as low as 3 ng/ml.” Floyd’s blood showed almost four times that level. There is palpable fear that even discussing such countervailing defense issues will lead to accusations of being a racist or an apologist for police brutality. As a result, most of these details are routinely omitted from coverage, or only obliquely referenced.
There is both a legal and a political reason Chauvin is going to trial first: The “aiding and abetting” charges of the other officers are derivative on the Chauvin’s alleged crime of murder or manslaughter. The case against Chauvin is also the strongest and there is ample basis for criminal charges due to his failure to respond to Floyd’s medical crisis. Lane, a new officer, is heard at one point suggesting they move Floyd because he might be experiencing “excited delirium. Chauvin replies: “Just leave him.” Conversely, Lane has a stronger case for acquittal, which likely would inflame passions without a prior conviction of Chauvin.
Past cases also show the danger of pushing for higher-range murder charges, which may satisfy public demands but magnify the impact of acquittals. Such overcharging in the George Zimmerman case, focusing on second-degree murder, reduced the stronger case for manslaughter. Instead of significant time on a lesser charge, Zimmerman’s prosecutors got nothing.
Chauvin’s prosecutors pushed for a second-degree murder charge in addition to manslaughter. But, clearly concerned about the sharp-cliff impact of acquittal, they are urging the trial judge to add a lesser third-degree murder charge. That still requires proving Chauvin was guilty of “perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind.”
If Chauvin is acquitted of murder, many are likely to be unsatisfied by a second-degree manslaughter conviction carrying a presumptive sentence of 41 months to 57 months, rather than a sentence of up to 15 years. The anger is likely to be greater if they were never told of the defense arguments and evidence. Chauvin’s trial shows the same profile as past cases with a mix of heightened charges and heightened expectations in what is a difficult prosecution case. Chauvin could very well be convicted of murder but, if not, the incomplete commentary and coverage will only add to the ensuing unrest.
Jonathan Turley is the Shapiro Professor of Public Interest Law at George Washington University. You can find his updates online @JonathanTurley.
Bottom line: there are two justice systems! Laws only apply to certain people. Today there is virtually no risk of penalty for officials violating U.S. Supreme Court rulings (“the supreme law of the land”). Officials can blatantly violate “Carpenter v. US”, torture, Cointelpro style blacklisting, warrantless domestic spying (the foundation for these abuses) and break virtually any law – nothing happens – not only is there no penalty but many get promoted for violating their Oath of Office loyalty pledge. Bush torture attorneys at DOJ got promoted for violating federal law and we destroyed the previously legal whistleblowers that upheld their oath of office.
The dangerous part is most Americans now know there are two justice systems and no longer believe America is “Equal Justice Under Law”. Americans know the game is rigged.
“Carpenter v. US”, torture, Cointelpro style blacklisting, warrantless domestic spying (the foundation for these abuses) and break virtually any law.
Sanctuary cities and catch and release of Antifa and BLM, too. Local officials are just as lawless.
Contempt for the law and the officials who mock it will reach such a crescendo that a dog-who-eats-all-the-other-dogs will crackdown, and instead of being appalled, the people will just be relieved. Bye-bye freedom.
Trump is a pussycat compared to the iron hand that is coming, and the saddest part is that many of us will deserve that iron hand. I am ashamed at my own powerlessness to stop it.
I’m not criticizing your comment. Zersetzung. I agree with you. I never supported torture. Torture can be effective, but my concern is that it would damage our message and our morals to permit it. I thought the matter was closed with Abu Ghraib, but I’m beginning to suspect that Abu Ghraib is just one episode in a larger moral slide that is ongoing.
There is no doubt that Chauvin should have taken his knee off of Floyd’s neck well before he did so.
For that, Chauvin needs to face justice, and a jury of his peers. Who are bound to determine exactly what charge(s) Chauvin is guilty of “beyond a reasonable doubt”.
But thanks to the Antifa/BLM fascists who are already threatening the city of Minneapolis with violence if Chauvin isn’t given a sentence that satisfies their own personal whims, he will not get a fair trial.
As a result, they are creating a perfect argument for Chauvin’s attorneys to file an appeal to a higher court.
That’s actually what the nihilistic trust funder fascists in Antifa anarchist crowd want to happen. That way they have an excuse to do the only thing they’re really interested in doing. That being destroy soft targets and “Burn it down”.
In reality, they could care less about black Americans. Because the only black Americans the trust funders have ever known (if any at all) were in the service industry. Therefore, they didn’t really “know” them. They’ve just had brief interactions with them while being served by them.
So, in reality they are still using black people to serve their interests, and could care less about them. They are just using them to their own detriment.
It reminds me of LBJ creating a welfare state virtual Democratic voting plantation for American blacks masquerading as his “Great Society”, while simultaneously forcing them to go fight a useless war in a tropical meat grinder in SE Asia that only served the interests of Lyndon Johnson’s uber-wealthy Bosses in the MIC.
Any black person who fails to see through their canard deserves whatever they get.
There is now an “autonomous zone” in Minnesota. DC has turned into a militarized zone complete with thousands of troops and razor wire, because one small group of Trump supporters and a few Antifa broke into the Capitol building one time.
Meanwhile, Democrats broke into the Capitol building and Senate offices during the Kavanaugh hearings. Democrats have looted, burned, rioted, and seized entire city blocks for months on end. They burned a police station. Regularly assault federal buildings. A federal courthouse has been boarded up and is under siege for weeks, with bombs and gunfire. Police cars destroyed. Cops assaulted and murdered.
Now they are threatening jurors that they’d better bring a guilty verdict or they will burn the city down.
At what point will Democrats admit there is a good reason to be afraid of their party.
Fear the Left. They will cancel you, ruin you, get you fired, blacklist you, try to keep you from ever working again, impoverish you, hound you in restaurants, burn your house and business down, threaten you, harass you at universities across the US, assault you for wearing political clothing…
This is the Left who vote Democrat. Do they really have no idea how everyone else views them and their party? Democrats are afraid of their own party. Parents who vote Democrat are afraid to object to the racist critical race theory taught in schools, or transgender curriculum that makes more kids confused about their gender. They say they will be ruined if they speak up.
The Democrat Party is turning into Brown Shirts. The Red Army.
Do something! Stop this! Stop voting Democrat or all your complaints will be ignored.
For God’s sake you put a senile man in the White House who can’t be trusted to answer reporters’ questions.
What have you done?!
https://youtu.be/BHTVVI6O9Z8
Actual Trump supporters would not damage the Trump image by rioting in D.C. or anywhere else.
Rioting is what the communist parasites do…because Americans allow them to…they pay no price.
Some Trump supporters were incited by BLM and Antifa, and encouraged by guards and police to enter the Capitol as if they were on tour.
You can bet the farm that the whole riot in the capitol was a set up.
Pearl Harbor, JFK, MLK, RFK, the Gulf of Tonkin, Flight 800 and 9/11 were all set ups – it’s what the Deep Deep State does for a living.
You’re assuming the votes were accurately counted and that the American people legitimately elected Biden.
You’re starting up your “the Left” crap again, and are adding the “Joe Biden is senile” theme your pastors at Fox keep hammering, along with attacks on Democrats. Karen: how can you speak about how “everyone else” views the Democrats when they: 1. won the White House; 2. Won the Senate and 3. Won the House? Biden has already beaten Trump in approval ratings. Republicans are the losers here, and your orange hero is part of the reason. The party that’s afraid are the Republicans. They have to gerrymander to avoid getting entirely shut out of Congress. So, they keep kissing up to the fat, orange TV performer who stirs up riots and keep going along with The Big Lie even though they know better. Now, you’re accusing Democrats of being Nazis and communists. Democrats didn’t “break in” to oppose Kavanaugh. Democrats aren’t the ones who looted, burned or did rioting. In fact, your hero’s supporters who were dumb enough to believe The Big Lie did this to our nation’s Capitol, along with urinating and defecating in the offices of Democratic office holders, while erecting a gallows to hang Mike Pence because he wouldn’t ignore validly-cast votes and award the election to Trump, which he had no power to do. Do you have any idea how unhinged you sound with your baseless allegations and generalizing of acts violence to the entire Democratic party?
Speaking of the media, here’s a great Tucker Carlson interview with Rutger Bregman –
Dr. Natacha wants us to believe that the drugs in Floyd’s system had no effect on his death. https://www.verywellhealth.com/crystal-meth-causes-severe-heart-damage-3892537. If you have health issues and a substance that endangers your health is transmitted into your system you place yourself in danger of death. As an illustration, if you have health issues and you contact COVID your chance of death are greatly increased. No one in poor health would purposely introduce COVID into their system. However, Floyd was in poor health and purposely ingested Meth and to top it all off Fentanyl into his body. It must then follow that George Floyd had already poisoned himself before his encounter with the police. However, none of these facts are going to make a difference to the rioters. The riots will happen even if they hang Chauvin in the town square. The riots will occur because of the encouragement of race-baiters like Natacha. When black rioters and black victims of the rioters die they won’t give a damn. The victims of the riots will not have Meth or Fentanyl in their bloodstreams. To make George Floyd’s name as a martyr equal with that of Martin Luther Kings is a travesty to black history. The riots will be only an expression of hate against a group of people because of the color of their skin. Injustice will have very little to do with it.
I didn’t say that at all: I said there’s an obvious cause to his death: Chauvin’s knee on his neck, coupled with pre-existing cardiovascular disease and hypertension, plus the stress beginning with his complaint of claustrophobia, coupled with asphyxiation. Pressure on the neck alone can kill an adult by compression of the carotid sinus which can stop your heart. Your “it must follow” logic is severely flawed: post-mortem levels of fentanyl and methamphetamine are provably elevated and do not correlate with pre-death levels. But…you are Trumpster and disciple of Pastor Hannity, so you believe. Science be damned.
So Natacha continues to play down the effects of Meth and Fentanyl. Dr. Natacha is somehow trying to tell us that the levels of these drugs in George Floyd’s system were not high enough to have an effect on a man with pre-existing heart and lung maladies. Injection of Meth and Fentanyl into a healthy person might not be a contributing factor to a death, but it is understood that these substances have an undesirable effect on those in ill health. We should all understand that Natacha has a degree in toxicology so we must not question her twist on things. Science be damned. Natacha, why is this so hard for you to understand. The fact is that you have your devils and your not going to let anyone take it them away from you. A god is not required for your religion but a devil is.
Doctor Natacha, had you said that a knee on George Floyd’s neck was a contributing factor I might have considered your statements with more charity. Your pronouncement that he died from one cause and one cause only reveals a bias that is looking for any thread to bolster a preconceived assumption. I believe that a knee on the neck could be a contributing factor to death, but an honest assessment would consider all the factors present. Your quest is as a rock searcher turning up every rock in order to find a racist that you are convinced is hiding there.
“post-mortem levels of fentanyl and methamphetamine are provably elevated and do not correlate with pre-death levels.”
I realize that you cut and pasted that from some talking points memo.
But try to explain in detail how post-mortem levels of any drug are:
A) “provably elevated”
and
B) “do not correlate with pre-death levels”
in the case of George Floyd?
I realize that it is extremely difficult. But try not to use the word “Trump” in your answer.
“Science be damned”, indeed.
Witch Doctor is NUTCHACHA?
The jury will determine whether he’s guilty or not guilty at the end of the trial.
Until then he is innocent as a matter of law.
Innocent until proven guilty while the prosecution tries to influence potential jurors before the trial by withholding information that demonstrates Chauvin is not guilty of Murder, changing the coroners report and promoting information that may or may not be true. Add to that the recent history of mob violence and a present day mob atmosphere. That leaves the defendant in one of the worst possible positions. The left doesn’t care about justice. They are fascists and for them justice means the fascists win and their opposition loses no matter what the circumstances are.
Exactly right. In that town Chauvin will possibly get 12 Natachas on the jury.
Young, I think Minneapolis is greater than 2:1 (Dem / Rep) and this election is a political nightmare. Add to that the fear factor and IMO one will find those willing to find Chauvin guilty far more willing to be on the jury than those that are afraid of being outed should they cast a decision favorable to Chauvin. Add to that the media’s role in influencing prospective jurors to find Chauvin guilty.
I don’t know how many preemptory strikes the defense has. If we use a fictitious number of potential jurors as 36 and divide them according to how they voted then the defense would need >24 preemptory strikes to knock out all of those for the prosecutor while the prosecutor only needs <12 strikes to knock out all those for the defense.
“[We gave you] a republic, if you can keep it.”
– Ben Franklin, 1787
________________
[We gave you] a republic, if you can take it back.”
– Ben Franklin, 2021
________________
Abraham Lincoln espoused the solution which will remain, compassionate repatriation.
You cannot mix oil and water and you’re never going to end racism.
_____________________________________________________
In the O.J. Simpson case, the “jury” decided that he was not guilty.
It was impossible for the jury to find O.J. Simpson guilty.
The “jury” was majority African, racist and biased.
Well, duh!
Who’d a thunk it?
Chauvin’s strategy must be to win on appeal for derelict, grossly negligent and incompetent counsel which failed to obtain a change of venue et al.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Selection of the Jury
The racial composition of the jury was strongly influenced by the decision of the prosecution to file the Simpson case in downtown Los Angeles rather than–as is usually the case– in the judicial district where the crime occurred– in this case, Santa Monica. Had the case be filed in Santa Monica, the Simpson jury would have been mostly white instead of, as was the case, mostly African-American. With poll data showing that most whites believed Simpson to be guilty and most blacks believing him to be not guilty, the decision to file the case in Santa Monica may have been the biggest mistake the prosecution made. Vincent Bugliosi, the celebrated prosecutor in the Charles Manson case, said the mistake “dwarfed anything the defense did.”
– Univ. Missouri, Kansas City
______________________
“The jury arrived at the verdict by 3:00 p.m. on October 2, after four hours of deliberation, but it postponed the announcement.[318] After the verdict was read, juror number nine, 44-year-old Lionel Cryer, gave Simpson a black power raised fist salute.[319] The New York Times reported that Cryer was a former member of the revolutionary nationalist Black Panther Party that prosecutors had ‘inexplicably left on the panel’.[320]”
– Wiki
Perhaps. Or perhaps the judge will spare them the moral quandary and direct a verdict based on a lack of evidence of causation.
“Or perhaps the judge will spare them the moral quandary and direct a verdict based on a lack of evidence of causation.”
***
That would call for moral courage, something conspicuously lacking from lowest to highest lately. Apparently their saving grace is to still be able to decide whether a tomato is a fruit or a vegetable. It’s in the Constitution, or will be by the time they are done with it. Nothing about saving innocent men from prison or the country from doubt about the integrity of its institutions, of course. Tomatoes are more important.
Marbury v Madison revealed “judicial review” and the SCOTUS did not immediately strike down the patently unconstitutional $1.9 trillion COVID Relief Bill which came out of Congress today???
There is no constitutional basis or citation for the authority of Congress to assist private enterprises, bailout cities, states, corporations and particular individuals which is distinctly NOT “…general Welfare.”
Please cite the location in Article 1, Section 8, where anything but “…general…,” or ALL, “…Welfare…” may be taxed for.
LETS TALK ABOUT BLACK ON WHITE MURDER. IT HAPPENS A LOT!
https://www.unz.com/article/34-deaths-if-you-count-one-hmong-girl-definitely-not-killed-by-white-supremacists-february-2021-another-month-in-the-death-of-white-america/
The late Joe Sobran wrote in 1997:
The concept of envy — the hatred of the superior — has dropped out of our moral vocabulary. The idea that white Christian civilization is hated more for its virtues than its sins doesn’t occur to us, because it’s not a nice idea. Western man towers over the rest of the world in ways so large as to be almost inexpressible. It’s Western exploration, science, and conquest that have revealed the world to itself. Other races feel like subjects of western power long after colonialism, imperialism and slavery have disappeared. The charge of racism puzzles whites who feel not hostility, but only baffled good will, because they don’t grasp what it really means: humiliation. The white man presents an image of superiority even when he isn’t conscious of it. Superiority excites envy. Destroying white civilization is the inmost desire of the league of designated victims we call “minorities.”
Look at the comments on this blog post. How is it even possible to get an unbiased jury, unless they just woke up from a coma? The jury is supposed to be comprised of people with an open mind, but many have made up their mind one way or the other. It would be difficult to find open minded people in any state, and violence is threatened in more than one state.
It’s not just the video evidence that everyone has seen. It’s the conjecture, what people have heard. What they think Chauvin’s motive or opinions are. Then there are threats against jurors, entire cities…
Karen S– is it even possible to get an unbiased jury?
At Legalinsurrection.com attorney Andrew Branca is following the voir dire. Almost all of the prospects appear to be very biased. The judge is making the defense burn through preemptive challenges with some prospects who look as if they should be discharged for cause.
I wonder how they can hold a fair trial in a court that looks like Firebase FUBAR deep in enemy territory?
But, then, so does Congress come to think of it. The new ‘normal’ look.
I agree. It’s going to be very difficult to seat even the barest approximation of an unbiased jury.
It’s the same thing that happens in every trial in DC. No democrat can be convicted, and no Republican can get a fair trial.
William– Sadly that appears to be the case. It does suggest a platinum tactic for defense attorneys. “Your honor, my client will plead neither guilty nor not guilty. My client pleads Democrat.”
Everything will be fine.
This is rich. Now a black lady who worked for Cuomo is saying he’s RACIST!
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9356527/Cuomos-new-accusers-One-claims-racist-forced-anti-deps-behavior.html
I think killing a few thousand grandmothers is more important. Probably they were racially diverse in the correct proportions so we are allowed to count them.
We won’t count the grandfathers; only men after all.
black lady says: “‘It’s a very subtle form of racialized abuse,’ she said. ‘You know I am beneficial to you. I fill a quota. It looks good on paper, and we made sure to put press releases out. But you don’t intend to incorporate me into the government. You just like to show me to people.’
‘I probably wrote about 30 speeches or sets of remarks for him, and I think he used one,’ Felix said of the time in his administration, which she joined in 2015 as a 23-year-old.
‘My desk was close to his office. He loved to see me, but he didn’t listen to a single word I ever said.’
wow!
WHAT IS “SUBTLE RACIALIZED ABUSE?” HE DIDN’T USE HER STUFF. THAT’S RACISSS!
DON’T YOU CLOWNS EVER GET TIRED OF TOLERATING THIS DRECK?
Here’s another thing. See how when they green light somebody, the accusations fly out of the woodwork?
Why not before Trump was gone? Ah, because Cuomo was the designated hitter.
Now he’s to be cashiered, put out to pasture, gelded, sent to the glue factory~!
Mass media has should be mocking these foolish women instead of repeating their whining and complaining. But you understand who owns mass media, has an agenda, right?
They have to set up false idols, and then knock them down! Democracy is their plaything and excuse — it is not really our system!
I can think of a lot of bad stuff about Cuomo but pretty much none of it is what they are wringing their hands over.
Sal
And let;s get to the bottom line here. The jurors better hang Chauvin or the riots start again.
In fact, they’ll start again no matter what. But they will definitely start if he is aquitted.
The justice is evaporating from America like spilled water on the concrete on a hot summer day.
Soon it will all be political. Be ready for it.
Derek Chauvin did not commit murder.
Derek Chauvin administered police procedures.
Derek Chauvin subdued a hostile suspect who may have committed a criminal act.
The suspect had more than ample opportunity to cease and desist his criminally hostile behavior and follow police orders; he persisted.
The suspect is seen alive, continuing to be hostile, resisting arrest and struggling for many minutes as the police procedure was administered, proving that the police procedure, by itself, did not cause the
expiration of the suspect.
Without proven technical medical evidence of the cessation of respiration and/or heartbeat of the suspect at the scene, it is a fact that the suspect was lightly breathing and his heart was beating until he was
pronounced dead at the hospital.
The police procedure brought an intractable suspect under the control of police which it was designed to do.
The fact that people survive the particular police procedure involved can be readily and repeatedly proved; anytime and anywhere.
Derek Chauvin administered the police procure until the chain of custody of the suspect was transferred to paramedics for transport to a hospital for medical care.
Derek Chauvin executed his duties as a sworn police officer protecting the public from dangerous individuals.
Chauvin would get a fairer trial in Tehran than he ever will here.
From the Annals of Toxicology, 2012 Apr: 36 (3) 182-94:
Abstract
“In forensic toxicology, several fatal intoxications with fentanyl have occurred in the recent past, but there are rare discussions in the literature of postmortem fentanyl blood concentrations subsequent to lethal and non lethal applications. To study this problem, we analyzed postmortem blood concentrations (vena femoralis) of 118 cases with therapeutic use of fentanyl and compared them with serum levels of 27 living persons after therapeutic administration of fentanyl patches (Durogesic). Basically, blood concentrations in postmortem specimens cannot be directly compared with in vivo serum levels: in our study, we observed that postmortem fentanyl blood concentrations were on average up to nine times higher than in vivo serum levels at the same dose. These differences could be explained by postmortem redistribution, but they were higher than expected on the basis of the physical and chemical properties of fentanyl alone. The special pharmacokinetics of the drug after long term transdermal application seem to play an important role in this phenomenon. In addition, there was no clear correlation between transdermal fentanyl dose and blood or serum concentrations, either antemortem or postmortem. Our study provides extensive data for postmortem peripheral blood concentrations after therapeutic non-fatal fentanyl patch application and demonstrates once more that in forensic toxicology, blood concentrations must be holistically interpreted with respect to all aspects of a case.”
In other words, post-mortem fentanyl levels can measure as much as 9Xs the levels of a living person who each took the same dosage, and therefore, an unreliable grounds for claiming that Floyd died of fentanyl overdose, which is probably why it is not listed as a cause of death.
From Wikipedia: (the “carotid sinus” is located in your neck)
Carotid sinus reflex death
Carotid sinus reflex death is a potential etiology of sudden death in which manual stimulation of the carotid sinus allegedly causes strong glossopharyngeal nerve (Vagus nerve is for aortic arch baroreceptors) impulses leading to terminal cardiac arrest. Carotid sinus reflex death has been pointed out as a possible cause of death in cases of strangulation, hanging and autoerotic strangulation, but such deductions remain controversial. Medical literature examining the use of carotid sinus massage involving brief gentle pressure of the carotid sinus in therapeutic settings as a diagnostic and therapeutic examination tool have reported few potentially fatal complications.[10][11][12][13][14] A carotid massage can also possibly dislodge a thrombus, or some plaque. This could lead to any number of life-threatening effects, including stroke.
In other words, pressure to Floyd’s neck, even without full compression of his trachea, was enough to kill him. And, he didn’t have “brief, gentle pressure” on his neck, either.
Hey Natacha!
Have you ever looked at Floyd’s extremely long rap sheet in Texas?
He had quite a propensity for abusing women. But I’m sure that’s Ok with you because….ummm….it’s just Ok with you.
No, because it doesn’t matter and is not germane to the discussion of how Chauvin killed Floyd, except to dupes like you.
27 MILLION DOLLAR SETTLEMENT AGREED BY MINNEAPOLIS
TO BE PAYED TO FAMILY OF GEO FLOYD
he did better for them going sideways than he ever did standing up
taxpayers will pay the bill. either the ones in Minneapolis or you and me
Just disgusting.
Ashli Babbit’s family should get their $27 million settlement from the government.
They’re free to try, but she was in the middle of trying to break into the Speaker’s Lobby, an area that even many Congressional staff don’t have permission to access, and there were still Representatives on the floor of the House, so I doubt her family will succeed. She knew that there was an officer on the other side of the door pointing his gun, because several seconds before she was shot, another protester shouted “There’s a gun! He’s got a gun!”
Such hypocrisy and such a short memory. Mark and Patricia McCloskey were arrested for protecting their home from a mob that just broke through the fence that encloses that area of homes. They were on their front porch. Suddenly they forget about people protecting themselves.
It’s more of the same. Continuous praise of Comey, who by the way won an Emmy, while dissing Trump and DeSantis. When the truth comes out these guys run away from the truth. They even have to get rid of Cuomo based on sexual harassment because they refuse to admit how many seniors he killed in nursing homes.
Making this settlement public before any trial could be held prejudicial and grounds for reversal of any conviction(s) on appeal.
Word.
EB
Joe Biden and his Democrats are taking credit for the vaccine and blaming Trump for the border crisis. Have you noticed this?
Propensity for violence is always relevant.
“In other words, pressure to Floyd’s neck, even without full compression of his trachea, was enough to kill him.” There are conflicting autopsy reports as to the extent, if any, that this restraint had on COD, that will be addressed at trial. Experts will also weigh in on the toxicology report. This is the first I’ve heard on the inaccuracy of fentanyl blood concentrations post mortem. The effects that will have on the medical examiner’s office and criminal justice system might be extensive. If you can’t prove someone died of a fatal overdose, how could you, for example, charge the person who gave someone a dose with murder?
Even if George Floyd had taken a lethal overdose of Fentanyl and meth, and even if this controversial hold was allowed at the time under Minnesota procedure, there would still be a valid complaint that Officer Chauvin misused the hold, and that he continued it past the point where Floyd was subdued.
Many police departments, such as the LAPD, banned these holds years ago for the reasons of accidental death you cited above. Best practices need to be shared with other departments, not only about control holds, but how to deal with people who have Odd, and are struggling. A completely sober, rational person suffering panic and respiratory distress would struggle. The very idea of having your hands handcuffed behind your back during respiratory difficulty would be scary to contemplate. Just having your hands held in that position would exacerbate respiratory difficulty. Add to that a very strong person who was high on Fentanyl and meth, and you have a difficult situation. How do you control someone who is high on drugs, who also says they are having trouble breathing? Well, you don’t kneel on their neck. That’s where Chauvin’s judgement comes into question, even though this hold appears to have been permitted at the time.
I haven’t seen accusations proven, yet, that Chauvin was racist, or that he set out to kill Floyd that day. But there are enough concerns about his judgement that a trial is necessary. However, when activists threaten to riot and burn down the city unless there is a guilty verdict on all counts, it is impossible to get a fair trial.
I think the venue should be changed to another state.
There are NO conflicting autopsy reports–the “official” report doesn’t say what mechanism caused his death, just that he died of cardiopulmonary arrest while being restrained. Everyone who dies undergoes cardiac and pulmonary arrest, but that doesn’t explain what caused their heart to stop beating and what caused their lungs to stop working. The family’s private autopsy says that cardiopulmonary arrest happened as a result of asphyxia. It is not disputed that Floyd died while Chauvin’s knee was on his neck, and the knee stayed there even after he lost consciousness. No one said that he “set out to kill Floyd”, which is why he wasn’t charged with first-degree murder, so why did you even mention this? Because you want to believe the cop isn’t wrong. We don’t know whether Floyd was “high”–he seemed rational. How likely is it that Chauvin would treat a white man this way? Not very. After complaining of claustrophobia in the cop car, Floyd should have been allowed to calm down, and maybe he didn’t even need to be taken into custody, but Chauvin wanted to show him who’s boss. He killed him without provocation, and needs to be held accountable.
Here’s a perfect example of Turley’s little game playing: “The autopsy states that Floyd had fentanyl and methamphetamine in his system. The level of fentanyl was extremely high, and documents from the autopsy attribute the following statement to Andrew Baker, Hennepin County’s chief medical examiner: “Fentanyl at 11 ng/ml — this is higher than (a) chronic pain patient. If he were found dead at home alone & no other apparent cause, this could be acceptable to call an OD [overdose]. Deaths have been certified w/levels of 3.” BUT, BUT BUT, the autopsy report DOES NOT SAY that Floyd died due to fentanyl or methamphetamine, and that’s probably because post-mortem levels are well known to not be representative of pre-death levels. Turley threw in the comment by Baker to make it sound like the Chief Medical Examiner was opining that Floyd died of an overdose, and I know for a fact that pro-Trump media has told this lie several times. It is a red herring: an effort to create reasonable doubt, and, according to the posts on this blog, it’s working. In fact, there’s massive evidence that Chauvin’s knee on Floyd’s neck killed him: after all, he died while it was there. The evidence does not support the conclusion that fentanyl or meth caused his death, and the blood levels post-mortem are not accurate. One other little trick is to get you to believe that you are being “fair” when you allow yourself to ignore the obvious and to be misled by scientifically unsupported crap like this.
Oh: meant to highlight a critical detail in the comment by the Medical Examiner: “…AND NO OTHER APPARENT CAUSE”. Here, we have an apparent and obvious other cause.
“the “official” report doesn’t say what mechanism caused his death, just that he died of cardiopulmonary arrest while being restrained”
***
If there is no official cause the default is not murder. The default is innocent.
Maybe, but the medical examiner said there’s no evidence of that or any other causative mechanism.
Natch– You failed to look at risk of death when Fentanyl is combined with methamphetamine which was also in his system.
The combination is more dangerous than either drug taken separately.
Abstract from Journal of Analytical Toxicology, Vol 37, (6), July/Aug 2013: 386-89
“We compare antemortem whole-blood to postmortem peripheral blood concentrations of methamphetamine and its metabolite amphetamine in three medical examiner cases. Antemortem specimens, initially screened positive for methamphetamine by ELISA, were subsequently confirmed, together with the postmortem specimens, by GC-MS analysis following solid-phase extraction. Methamphetamine peripheral blood to antemortem blood ratios averaged 1.51 (±0.049; n = 3) and amphetamine peripheral blood to antemortem blood ratios averaged 1.50 (n = 2). These data show that postmortem redistribution occurs for both methamphetamine and amphetamine, revealing that postmortem blood concentrations are ∼1.5 times greater than antemortem concentrations. Furthermore, as both methamphetamine and amphetamine have previously been shown to have liver/peripheral blood (L/P) ratios of 5–8, it can be proposed that drugs displaying L/P ratios ranging from 5 to 10 may exhibit postmortem concentrations up to twice those concentrations circulating in blood before death.”
Post-mortem values are not accurate, in other words, which is why amphetamine is NOT listed as a cause of death. Yet, you still want to believe Chauvin is not guilty of a crime.
Chauvin is not guilty of a crime. The state must prove he caused Floyd’s death beyond a reasonable doubt, meaning that there cannot be any other reasonable explanations for Floyd’s death. In fact, there are many other explanations and the jury must not sort through the alternatives and choose only the one which finds him guilty, particularly when that is less likely than the innocent alternatives.
You’re already convinced that there are other explanations, even though you’ve seen REAL evidence–i.e., Chauvin kneeling on Floyd’s neck, and nothing else in the form of admissible court evidence. All Turley offers is ARGUMENT. Argument by a lawyer is NOT evidence. I’ve shown you proof in the form of scientific studies proving that post-mortem tests for fentanyl and methamphetamine are falsely elevated, meaning that there is no way to prove, within reason, that these could have drugs killed him. I’ve also shown you a scientific piece explaining how pressure to the neck can stimulate the vagus nerve that can cause death. Yet, being a Trumpster, you are immune to science and vulnerable to racism, so all they have to come up with is some lame reason, and you’d buy it.
Natch– “that there is no way to prove, within reason, that these could have drugs killed him”
***
He doesn’t have to prove anything. The burden is on the state. The state must prove that Chauvin’s acts killed Floyd to the exclusion of other reasonable causes.
You go on about post mortem levels being higher without remembering that when pathologists examine obvious overdoses they are looking at postmortem levels and those common postmortem levels are equal to or less than Floyd’s postmortem levels thus pointing to death by overdose.
That’s your take. Bear in mind that was the GOVERNMENT’S expert.
That’s not his take. That’s the law.
Natch– “Yet, being a Trumpster, you are immune to science and vulnerable to racism, so all they have to come up with is some lame reason, and you’d buy it.”
****
Your arguments often degrade into personal attacks.
What does your statement demonstrate in logic or prove as evidence?
Ridiculous and offensive remarks from Natacha
“Chauvin is not guilty of a crime.”
That’s for the jury to determine.
Innocent until proven guilty. That’s the rule.
You have a study on Fentanyl and another study on methamphetamine but you skipped the reports on the deadlier combination of the two.
The previous time Floyd had an arrest like this the drugs he ingested put him in the hospital to save his life. This time he was sicker with several dangerous medical conditions and, quite possibly, swallowed a different and more dangerous combination of illegal drugs.
It would be good to get more information on his earlier arrest. Did he claim he couldn’t breathe? Did he resist arrest? What illegal drugs did he then ingest?
It blows me away how people like you will buy into the theory that George Floyd should be on trial, and not Derek Chauvin. Partly, this is because you are deeply racist–Floyd doesn’t look like you or anyone you care about, in fact–you don’t like or are threatened by people who look like him, and you really don’t care that a white cop killed him because the white cop looks more like you than Floyd. You don’t see yourself or someone you love as George Floyd, and you probably feel sorry for the cop. Plus, you faithfully tune in nightly to Pastor Hannity’s sermon and he preaches the sort of drivel you repeat here. You saw Chauvin kneel on his neck. You heard him beg for his life. You heard bystanders beg him to stop. This still isn’t enough for you. What happened in the past has nothing to do with what happened on May 25th. Chauvin killed Floyd. His conduct was unnecessary and unreasonable. He still wouldn’t stop after Floyd was unconscious. Floyd was no risk to him–he was shackled. It is wrong. Yet, you want to talk about some prior incident–why? What possible bearing could that have on this incident? None. It’s because you are a racist and very gullible, just the sort of juror Turley and his ilk love to have on a jury.
This lady is a blabbermouth! Name caller will get called name. Witch!
Natch– Your quoted studies did not say that post mortem drug levels can’t be used to determine a possible cause of death. It said, ” Basically, blood concentrations in postmortem specimens cannot be directly compared with in vivo serum levels:”
You don’t compare live people with dead people for this. You compare a dead person’s level with levels found in other dead people.
Really quite elementary, my dear.
Natch– “It’s because you are a racist”
***
Not going to argue that, but can’t a racist be right?
Natch– “You don’t see yourself or someone you love as George Floyd, ”
***
No, I don’t. Unlike Floyd I have never shoved a pistol into a pregnant woman’s stomach while my hoodlum friends ransacked her home.
I don’t see myself as Floyd at all.
Is that how you see yourself?
You see only race. I am seeing behavior.
Natch,
You are fun.
“It’s because you are a racist and very gullible, just the sort of juror Turley and his ilk love to have on a jury.” And that, right there, is where you lash out at another poster and the host of the blog.
Stop judging people you don’t even know.
You insult Turley nearly ever time you show up. So why do you keep attending a blog written by someone you despise? You come across as a very angry, resentful person.
I can tell a lot about you from the rants you post, most of which repeats crap you heard on Fox. It’s not a matter of “judging” to understand that people like you fear and hate black people. You keep insisting that BLM is an actual organization, which it is not–it is a sentiment. There are BLM signs in my (mostly) white neighborhood, and these are just people who are disgusted by the killings of people like Breona Taylor and George Floyd. You keep insisting that Democrats are the ones who rioted in Oregon and elsewhere after Floyd’s killing, which is not true. Democrats condemned this conduct. In a later post on this thread, you accuse Democrats of being Nazis and Communists, when right before your eyes is proof that the Trumpsters who fell for The Big Lie and attacked the Capitol are the Nazis–some wearing Auschwicz t-shirts and White Supremacist insignia. It’s not a matter of “judging” to see what sort of lies and misinformation hook you, and to conclude that you are gullible and not college-educated.
As always, you’re a complete idiot arguing in bad faith: you really don’t care that a white cop killed him
You’re begging the question, and all your stupid insults depend on your stupid conclusion being correct even though there is no evidence of it. You are profoundly bigoted and racist and stupid.
“You are profoundly bigoted and racist and stupid.” (referring to Natacha)
Yup.
Joe Biden and his Democrats are taking credit for the vaccine and blaming Trump for the border crisis. Have you noticed this?
That’s not true. Biden made very clear a few days ago that the SCIENTISTS are the ones who deserve credit for the vaccine–he pushed back against Trump trying to take credit for the scientific knowledge and work that created the vaccine. Why in the world would you think Trump deserves credit, other than he tries to claim credit? What exactly did he do to help create the vaccine? Specifics, please. Agreeing to purchase vaccine has nothing to do with inventing it, and asking the army to deliver it to states is no help at all–what are states supposed to do with it? That’s why the rollout was such a hodge-podge. One thing he could have done, if he had been a leader is to put into place an organized plan to distribute and administer the vaccine. He failed to do this. Biden’s team has done this. The “border crisis” was exacerbated by Trump–intentionally separating children from their parents. That’s not subject to dispute, either.
Why do you think George Floyd said he couldn’t breathe before the struggle took place with the police officers, if the amount of fentanyl and meth he took was not an overdose?
Another scenario is that George Floyd took a fatal overdose, experienced respiratory distress, panicked and struggled, and then Officer Chauvin made everything worse by kneeling on his neck and upper back for 10 minutes. Perhaps he would have died anyway but Chauvin’s actions did not help. Did his actions speed up the respiratory failure that was already occurring? Increase Floyd’s panic, which increased his heart rate even more than the meth, further straining his failing lungs?
While we’re all going to discuss evidence and conjecture, this needs to play out in court. It’s so hard to keep an open mind, considering we’ve all seen the tragic final few minutes.
As for George Floyd’s criminal history, including being part of a group of men who pistol whipped a pregnant woman during a home invasion, it does not bear on whether Chauvin did right or wrong. But it does bring into question the status to which Floyd has been elevated, as a martyr. Floyd was a deeply flawed individual, who harmed others as well as himself. He took fentanyl and meth his last day on Earth which at least contributed to his own death. His case does highlight the need to review control holds in police departments, ensuring they follow best practices, but it should not go beyond that to the point that school children lionize him.
It’s not only the police who need to review how they respond to drug addicts who struggle. This is a good reminder that taking drugs can be deadly. Floyd was supposedly turning his life around but apparently was still fighting his demons.
I wish an anti-drug message could be highlighted from this tragedy.
Look how far you are willing to go to defend the garbage preached to you on Fox. Even the medical examiner couldn’t say, in the autopsy report, that Floyd overdosed, so why would you be willing to believe this? Where’s the proof that respiratory failure was already occurring? In fact, you must think you know more than the Medical Examiner: “at least contributed to his own death”. Even the Medical Examiner didn’t conclude this, but you know so much more. Hey, when you have dopes like you on a jury, who needs physicians or expert witnesses? And, he “harmed others as well as himself”. BTW: tell us, Karen, which Fox News host told you about Floyd’s criminal background and why would they bring it up, other than to cast shade on him and to put him on trial, shifting blame from Chauvin to Floyd. THIS IS WHY PEOPLE TAKE TO THE STREETS. Whatever his criminal problems and past had been, Floyd still died under the knee of Derek Chauvin, who had no legal or rational basis to kill him in this manner. This is not how the American justice system works.
“Look how far you are willing to go to defend the garbage preached to you on Fox.”
Every time you declare you know what I’m thinking, you are wrong. If you guessed you’d at least be right half the time.
I looked at the private and ME autopsy report summaries, as well as the report of the fentanyl and meth in his system. I never defended Chauvin putting his knee on Floyd’s neck. Quite the opposite, in fact. I’m not defending Chauvin, but I have wondered if fentanyl and meth played a roll in his death. That will come out at trial.
It’s a simple question, Natacha. Why do you think George Floyd said he couldn’t breathe before struggling against officers and refusing to get into the car?
You have argued that there is no way to tell if the report of OD levels of fentanyl are accurate. So why did he say he couldn’t breathe long before Chauvin’s knee came into play? I did notice that your previous declarations that Chauvin was racist have faded. Do you no longer think he is racist?
I have repeatedly said to let this play out in court, and stop playing judge and jury. You regularly take issue with this approach. The defense and the prosecution will both have their experts. Why are you so hostile to hearing all of the evidence and then coming to an informed decision?
Floyd said he was claustrophobic and was having a panic attack over being shacked and placed into the back seat Chauvin offered to turn on the air conditioner, but he was still claustrophobic. If you really had looked into the police reports, you’d know this, but you don’t want to know it–you think you are medically-sophisticated enough to “know” that drugs caused or contributed to his death, and that he had taken a fatal overdone. If drugs played a roll [sic] in causing his death, the ME would have said so, but he didn’t.
There’s this little evidence rule called “Daubert”: which requires a trial judge to decide whether expert opinion evidence is reliable enough to be admissible. The judge is a “gatekeeper” of scientific opinion evidence. If the scientific basis for an opinion is not valid, the “evidence” doesn’t come in. The drug levels post-death are not reliable. Toxicological studies prove there are massive elevations of the true levels of fentanyl especially after death, so if the prosecutors do their job, the drug stuff won’t come in, which is why I take issue with Turley bringing it up in the first place. We know that George had his neck compressed for 10 minutes at least, and that he was not conscious for at least 2 minutes of that time, and had no pulse, but Chauvin still wouldn’t release him. That’s a more than sufficient cause of his death, and it’s all captured on video. The rest is speculation.
“which Fox News host told you about Floyd’s criminal background”
Are you under the false impression that the only news source who accurately reported the facts about Floyd’s criminal background is a host or hosts on Fox News?!
All anyone has to do to discover that he was a lifelong criminal with multiple arrests and convictions is run a search on George Floyd’s criminal background.
Do you actually contend that his past criminal behavior has no relevance to this case? He was caught passing counterfeit bills. Had he not done so, no one would have called the police on him. Then he made his situation even worse by resisting arrest.
Only a mental midget could fail to see that Floyd was a bad actor, and Chauvin is a bad cop. So both of them have guilt.
But you’re such a simpleton that you think deifying Floyd, while demonizing Chauvin, is a good strategy.
“Post-mortem values are not accurate . . .”
“Are not accurate” at measuring what? Postmortem blood concentrations? — They’re dead on accurate.
At measuring antemortem blood concentrations? — They’re dead on accurate. Just use the ratios cited in the article. (Further, it’s the *range* that’s important, not the number three places to the right of the decimal point.)
Toxicologists are not stupid. They are fully aware of the issue of blood concentration pre- and post-death. Further, they know that *the* issue is drug concentration in the anatomical system, which includes in the organs, and that certain drugs under certain conditions can migrate from the organs to the blood, postmortem. And they have advanced scientific knowledge and measurement tools for dealing with that phenomenon.
It’s always amusing when someone cites a scientific study that proves the exact opposite of what they wish for it to conclude.
I don’t believe that he did not have a fentanyl patch ( which is applied to the outside, on skin).
This study does not concern inhalation or injection of fentanyl
It concerns the unreliability of post-mortem fentanyl levels. The study used people who used prescribed fentanyl patches, but that makes no difference: blood tests for fentanyl levels after death are massively elevated and are not a reliable way prove someone died of an overdose, especially when there’s another, reasonable and provable other cause. But, as the comments to Turley’s misleading piece shows, creating doubt is what people like him do, along with looking for people like you who are gullible enough to disregard the proof you’ve seen with your own two eyes. It helps if you are a Trump disciple who believes the lies of a boated TV host over science, and are a faithful Fox News viewer.
Natch– “blood tests for fentanyl levels after death are massively elevated and are not a reliable way prove someone died of an overdose”
***
As I said above, postmortem drug levels are not compared to live samples so much as to other postmortem levels found in known overdoses.
Floyd’s postmortem levels were equal to or greater than levels found in other subjects known to have died from overdoses. An overdose almost certainly contributed to his death and likely caused it.
Reasonable doubt and easy science.
I think I am the one immune to science.
The only published toxicology results I am aware of being published are those based on hospital drawn blood. Those are source of the numbers used in Mr. Turley’s article. The most conclusive as to cause of death is the postmortem forensic toxicology study. This type of study, drawing on about 19 samples from different parts of the body, take about 4 to 6-weeks to complete. In the case of Carver County Minnesota, they reported the results of the toxicology analysis 6-weeks after his death from fentanyl. It is now almost 42-weeks and no report as to the results of the postmortem forensic toxicology analysis.
The cause of death is cardiopulmonary and was determined prior to when a postmortem forensic toxicology analysis could have been completed. The ME rushed the call on cause of death – for political reasons? As to the autopsy, there is no physical evidence of physical trauma to Mr. Floyd’s body from officer Chauvin – read the report. As to the “family autopsy”, there is only one autopsy ever performed. That autopsy was performed by the Hennepin County Medical Examiner’s office. The family autopsy has the fingerprints of Dr. Michael Baden on them. What you should know of Baden is he was fired from his duties as medical examiner for the City of New York. He was also let go from a similar role in Suffolk County New York. His work is rife with poor judgement. In short, he gives the conclusion he is paid to give.
“… his death from fentanyl” applies to Prince Rogers Nelson – or just Prince.
DSB: “It is now almost 42-weeks and no report as to the results of the postmortem forensic toxicology analysis.”
***
That is interesting and begs for explanation.
The state hid parts of the bodycam footage so it was leaked. Are they now hiding the postmortem toxicology report?
Has the state hired Mike Nifong as expert co-prosecutor?
Where do the people of Minneapolis get the 27 million bucks to pay Floyd’s family?
Idiots.
IWhere do the people of Minneapolis get the 27 million bucks to pay Floyd’s family”
I suppose property taxes, including some on property already burned down by peaceful Floyd looters and protesters.
Claimed in comments below that the Antifa people at the Capitol were Proud Boys in disguise.
Here is a picture of them:
https://www.businessinsider.com/proud-boys-attend-january-6-dc-rally-incognito-all-black-2021-1
Notice that their outfits say Proud Boys and PB and the like with no effort to hide their faces as Antifa does.
Some disguise!
The person who said in advance that they would disguise as Antifa was Mr. Tarrio, a ‘leader’ since identified as an FBI informant. Was this whole scam engineered in the J. Edgar Hoover/Richard Jewell Building? Beginning to look like it.
What is your part in pushing this nonsense Svelaz?
“the Antifa people at the Capitol”
Here are over 200 people arrested for their actions at the Capitol on Jan. 6 – https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/capitol-breach-cases
What are the names of “the Antifa people” in that list?
Jayden x
https://www.arlingtoncardinal.com/2021/01/utah-resident-john-sullivan-charged-in-federal-court-following-civil-disorder-at-the-united-states-capitol-examination-of-youtube-channel-jaydenx/
John Sullivan (Jayden X) is not a Trump supporter, but he also has never identified himself with Antifa.
The transcript of the NPR broadcast about jurors being nervous or apprehensive is dead wrong in the description of what the prospective jurors first see. It’s NOT the courtroom! It’s the barbed wire and fencing and, possibly, the so-called “protestors” ringing the building; no wonder they fear what lies ahead for them as juroors – during a trial and, certainly, if the jury doesn’t find the defendant guilty of the most serious crime. (Even then, me-thinks more rioting will ensue.) As to radical politico harris — shame on her for her pandering and irresponsible statements that “murder” had occurred; you wouldn’t think she was someone with a law degree, licensed to practice law, a prosecutor and a state attorney general; indeed, she led fundraising effort to spring the lawbreaking rioters from jail.
Uh, Turley, the world saw Chauvin kneeling on Floyd’s neck for about 10 minutes, at a time when he was shackled (and therefore no danger to Chauvin) and saying he couldn’t breathe. People would be outraged if a person did this to a dog that was tied up and muzzled. And, arguing that drugs, rather than kneeling on his neck, was the proximate cause of death IS racist and misleading. And, you are wrong in stating that the government autopsy results and the private autopsy results are not consistent. Let’s digest the falsehoods you are trying to perpetrate here.
The official GOVERNMENT cause of death was: “cardiopulmonary arrest while being restrained by law enforcement officer(s).” This means nothing more than Floyd died while being restrained, something we already knew, but it does NOT address the actual physiological CAUSE of his death. You try to make some point that Floyd had underlying cardiovascular disease, but cardiovascular disease was NOT listed as the cause of death, although it most likely made him more vulnerable to the stress of low oxygen levels resulting from compression of his trachea when he was under severe stress from not being able to breathe. He complained of not being able to breathe, and was clearly under severe stress, which causes adrenaline to be released, raising his already high blood pressure and increasing his heart rate (he had atherosclerosis), thus increasing his body’s oxygen requirements, which Chauvin’s kneeling on his neck prevented him from obtaining. This causes stress levels and blood pressure levels to snowball to the point where his heart probably failed. Bear in mind that it cannot be disputed that Chauvin still wouldn’t release Floyd’s neck even after he lost consciousness. What is your innocuous explanation for this? Why would anyone continue kneeling on the neck of someone who was already unconscious? A bigger question is why Chauvin would kneel on Floyd’s neck in the first place, when Floyd was already shackled and was not combative. It is well-known that pressure to the neck can stimulate the vagus nerve in the neck, resulting in slowed heart rate and unconsciousness.
You clam that “[]he preliminary finding of the autopsy ‘revealed no physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation. Mr. Floyd had underlying health conditions including coronary artery disease and hypertensive heart disease.’ ” It is critical to note that Chauvin knelt on the SIDE of Floyd’s neck–not the front–so his hyoid bone was not fractured, and the usual bruising and petechial hemorrhages found in a victim’s eyes with manual strangulation were not present, nor would they be expected to be present. For comparison purposes, how many cases of strangulation are there from compression on just one side of the neck? I never heard of any, because police officers do not generally kneel on the necks of suspects and murderers usually squeeze both sides of the neck–manually or with a garrotte. I see little room for doubt that Chauvin’s conduct was the proximate cause of Floyd’s death, even if there was not complete asphyxia, as in fully blocking his trachea–because Chauvin’s conduct caused severe stress which limited the amount of oxygen Floyd could get, which is enough to be fatal in someone with underlying hypertension and atherosclerotic heart disease.
And, then, there’s the red-herring of the drug use: anything to get just one juror to have reasonable doubt. Bear in mind, the official autopsy results DID NOT list fentanyl overdose as the cause of death. And, you note the high levels, but neither you nor the medical examiner knows what Floyd’s drug history was–the body does adjust to continued drug use and can tolerate higher levels without causing death. Even if fentanyl could have contributed to his death, it was NOT the proximate cause–Chauvin’s kneeling on his neck was. And, you are correct in noting that this is just a maneuver to excuse police brutality, and it is indeed playing the race card.
+10
EB