Prosecutors Ask Jurors To Dismiss George Floyd Autopsy Findings

I previously wrote that the key to conviction in the Derek Chauvin trial (and avoiding a cascading failure in all four cases) is the autopsy findings and the role of drugs (including fentanyl) in the body of George Floyd. Prosecutors are now asking the jury to effectively dismiss the findings of the only official autopsy in the case and insist, contrary to those findings, that Floyd died from asphyxia, or, lack of oxygen. Some new disclosures may make that claim more difficult for the prosecution.

Last week, special prosecutor Jerry Blackwell admitted to jurors that Hennepin County Chief Medical Examiner Dr. Andrew Baker pointed to cardiac arrest as Floyd’s cause of death. However, he insisted that the state would prove that “was … not a fatal heart event,” but asphyxiation.

It is a bold move since it could invite reasonable doubt on the cause of death.  The question is whether a case of manslaughter could have been advanced without the need of opposing the state’s own coroner on such findings. The failure of Chauvin to respond to a medical emergency speaks more to manslaughter than murder but it could be framed consistently with these findings. Instead, the prosecution has asked the jury to effectively reject the coroner’s findings — a risky maneuver.

We have previously discussed key defense elements in the case:

Conversely, Chauvin’s attorney, Eric Nelson, sounds more like the typical prosecutor noting that there is only one official autopsy and one official report on the cause of death. He told the jury “Dr. Baker found none of what are referred to as the telltale signs of asphyxiation. There was no evidence that Mr. Floyd’s airflow was restricted and he did not determine [it] to be a positional or mechanical asphyxia death.”

Nelson can rely on other aspects of the official record. When Baker went over findings in a meeting last December with the Minnesota Attorney General’s Office, he specifically noted that the knee restraint was not likely to produce asphyxiation:  “[I]t appeared to Dr. Baker that the pressure to the neck was coming from the back or posterior lateral portions of the back, and none of these strictures would impact breathing or cause loss of consciousness,” said a document summarizing the meeting.”  He noted a study that found that placing 200 pounds of weight or more on a healthy person did not have an “observable impact on breathing.”

Instead, Baker cited the drugs in the system as well as the 75-80% narrowing of coronary arteries that “put him at risk for a sudden cardiac arrest.” The record of the meeting states “Dr. Baker offered that one possibility for the pathway of Floyd’s death is that Floyd’s heart was starting to fail because of the stress, drugs, enlarged heart, and [heart] disease . . . He said that once the heart starts to fail … one of the symptoms is the perception that you cannot breathe.”

After those findings were released, Baker’s office had to be put under police protections due to threats to him and his staff.

By focusing the jury on the autopsy report, and asking them to effectively dismiss the conclusions of the only official report, the prosecutors increase the chances of a hung jury and even an acquittal. I previously expressed reservations about the push for murder charges because the case is better suited for a manslaughter case. If a jury feels the prosecutors have over-charged a case, it can produce a loss of credibility in the case. When you add an argument to dismiss the state’s own autopsy findings, you risk magnifying such skepticism or mistrust with jury members.

387 thoughts on “Prosecutors Ask Jurors To Dismiss George Floyd Autopsy Findings”

  1. Once again, Prof. Turley misses the mark by a mile. He, apparently, believes in a modification of Johnnie Cochran’s famous statement at the OJ Simpson trial. In this case, that modification would be, “If the facts don’t fit, you must omit.” So, what’s the dominant fact and major omission? Floyd’s lungs upon autopsy weighed 2 ½ times what they would have for a typical six-foot-eight human being. So, of course, Floyd said repeatedly, “I can’t breathe.” To get just a little idea of what that will do to a person, try breathing underwater and see if you get sufficient oxygen.

    George Floyd’s lungs were so filled with his own body fluids it was virtually impossible for him to breathe before he ever saw the first policeman. The lab chemistry profiles – hardly hearsay – proved he had a “lethal amount” of a drug known as fentanyl, as well as illicit methamphetamines, in his system.

    The Center for Disease Control and Prevention (“CDC”) tell us that fentanyl is 50-to-100 times more powerful than morphine. Just one grain, the size of a grain of sand on the beach, will kill an adult-sized police dog. It very swiftly affects the brain, the respiratory system, the heart, and all else in the human body. Any “expert” claiming that a (nonexistent) pressure placed on Floy’d neck is lying. It’s as simple as that.

    So, you didn’t hear about this in any of the mainstream presstitute publications? Well, they too follow the rule, “If the facts don’t fit, you must omit.”

  2. George Floyd was not singled out as a black man. Police were called to deal with him. He was a drug addict who victimized his community to support his habit. He died of a drug overdose.

  3. The left lives in Hoaxville. Facts and truth are the enemy of leftism. Leftism is the opposite of good. All of the left’s major talking points are false narratives and hoaxes. They stand for nothing that is true.

    1. When you say “everything the other side says is a lie” it’s impossible to take you seriously. Luckily, you will always have a “left” to direct your anger at.

  4. get ready for it people
    it matters not if chauvin beats the case
    if hes acquitted cities will burn
    if hes convicted police will stop policing
    and cities will burn
    plan accordingly
    my home and neighborhood defense plan is a standard capacity magazine fed semiautomatic centerfire rifle based one

    1. the police won’t stop policing and cities won’t burn, to use your words

      and you won’t be needing your guns

      chill

      1. Wow! Who is Stupid enough to listen to this garbage? I’m not saying we all need to be armed but the above statement indicates an individual who is brain dead.

        In DC two girls 13 and 15 killed an Uber driver. They are not being treated as murderers. In fact at age 21 or earlier everything goes away. I wonder where they learned this behavior from? Can it be from the BLM people that were arrested for violence and bailed out by leftists and rewarded? How about all those that weren’t arrested and left to destroy cities? How about the storming of the Kavanaugh hearings certainly more violent than Jan 6 where many of the people arrested and incarcerated in DC caused no destruction and likely did nothing illegal other than snubbing Democrat leadership. They apparently don’t have a right to freedom of speech and are left in jail 3 months to be beaten with one losing his eyesight.

        This turkey who can’t stop posting garbage has absolutely no sense of values and no principles.

    2. You sound like you’d be a-OK with it. Almost sounds like you’re looking forward to it…
      Not to worry, that’s totally normal. Totally normal.

  5. they should instead ask the jury to dismiss the video of chauvin with his knee on floyds shoulder and not his back
    it goes a long way in explaining why the only autopsy that counts didnt show damage to floyds neck

    1. @Sound Awake…
      Turley attempts to address this by stating that Floyd most likely died from non-cardiogenic pulmonary edema. Where Turley goes off the rails is that he focuses on the stress caused by Chauvin as the cause, totally ignoring that the drugs ingested along with long term drug abuse by Floyd also contributes to a non-cardiogenic pulmonary edema.

      This is kind of critical because the prosecution is already trying to frame that any force.. on the neck or even on the shoulder could be the cause for non-cardiogenic pulmonary edema. The defense will argue that the pulmonary edema is due to drugs and not the restraint. And the defense is more than likely correct when you lay out the time line and Floyd’s eratic behavior.

  6. Criminal-huggers are worried about police overreaction.

    Meanwhile, politicians surrender police stations to armed thugs. Mayors and governors stand down, while their cities are torched and looted. Police are fired and prosecuted for doing their jobs. Police are treated by politicians as human piñatas. That the innocent lose their life, property, and peace of mind are considered acceptable civilian casualties.

    And there’s the predictable consequence: Crime and murder are skyrocketing.

  7. The left is covering its tracks.


    BLM Activist Threatens Cities ‘on Fire’ if Chauvin Not Convicted

    In a now-deleted video on social media, prominent Black Lives Matter (BLM) activist Maya Echols threatened that cities will be “on fire” if Derek Chauvin, a former Minneapolis police officer on trial for the murder of George Floyd, is not convicted.

    “If George Floyd’s murderer is not sentenced, just know that all hell is gonna break loose. Don’t be surprised when buildings are on fire. Just saying,” Echols threatened.

    There is no question that an acquittal in the Floyd case will spark nationwide rioting by the “mostly peaceful” domestic terrorists of BLM and the violent anarchists of Antifa, because that’s how the left rolls when trials and elections don’t go their way. They burn cities and loot businesses and assault innocents, and the supportive activists of the news media give them a pass.

    Meanwhile, the Biden administration demonizes Trump supporters as the real domestic terrorist threat.

  8. Autopsy of George Floyd with my comments added in italics:

    II. Natural diseases
    A. Arteriosclerotic heart disease, multifocal, severe
    B. Hypertensive heart disease
    1. Cardiomegaly (540 g) with mild biventricular
    dilatation
    2. Clinical history of hypertension
    C. Left pelvic tumor (incidental, see microscopic description)

    III. No life-threatening injuries identified
    B. No injuries of anterior muscles of neck or laryngeal
    structures

    IV. Viral testing (Minnesota Department of Health, postmortem nasal swab collected 5/26/2020): positive for 2019-nCoV RNA by PCR (see ‘Comments,’ below)
    V. Hemoglobin S quantitation (postmortem femoral blood, HHC
    Laboratory): 38% (see ‘Comments,’ below) Sickle cell
    VI. Toxicology (see attached report for full details; testing
    performed on antemortem blood specimens collected 5/25/20 at
    9:00 p.m. at HHC and on postmortem urine)
    A. Blood drug and novel psychoactive substances screens:
    1. Fentanyl 11 ng/mL
    2. Norfentanyl 5.6 ng/mL metabolite of fentanyl
    3. 4-ANPP 0.65 ng/mL
    4. Methamphetamine 19 ng/mL
    5. 11-Hydroxy Delta-9 THC 1.2 ng/mL;
    Delta-9 Carboxy THC 42 ng/mL; Delta-9 THC 2.9 ng/mL marijuana/cannabis
    6. Cotinine positive metabolite from nicotine from tobacco smoke
    7. Caffeine positive

    https://www.hennepin.us/-/media/hennepinus/residents/public-safety/documents/floyd-autopsy-6-3-20.pdf

    1. From the autopsy report above. Note that the collection time of hospital blood samples were taken at 21:00 hours, 25 minutes before he was pronounced dead. Toxicology also flagged morphine.

      NECK: Layer by layer dissection of the anterior strap muscles of the neck discloses no areas of contusion or hemorrhage within the musculature. The thyroid cartilage and hyoid bone are intact. The larynx is lined by intact mucosa. The thyroid is symmetric and red-brown, without cystic or nodular change. The tongue is free of bite marks, hemorrhage, or other injuries.
      The cervical spinal column is palpably stable and free of
      hemorrhage.

      RESPIRATORY SYSTEM: The right and left lungs weigh 1085 and
      1015 g, respectively. The external surfaces are pink only on the most anterior aspects, and deep red-purple in all other areas. The pulmonary parenchyma is diffusely congested and edematous.
      No mass lesions or areas of consolidation are present. The
      pulmonary vascular tree is free of thromboemboli. The
      tracheobronchial tree is free of blood, edema fluid, or foreign
      material.

      The toxicology results don’t copy and paste due to formatting issues.

      https://www.hennepin.us/-/media/hennepinus/residents/public-safety/documents/floyd-autopsy-6-3-20.pdf

      1. Little Miss, Little Miss, Little Miss Can’t be Wrong. Chauvin died while on the ground under Chauvin’s knee. Being formally pronounced dead doesn’t mean he was alive right up to the moment he was pronounced. The ER doctor said he died of asphyxia. The ME said he died of cardiopulmonary arrest while under restraint. You don’t know what the hell you’re talking about, but you still won’t shut up.

        1. “You don’t know what the hell you’re talking about, but you still won’t shut up.” Natacha to Karen S.

          That’s Karen.

            1. ‘When “Anonymous” posts support of Natacha, I just assume it’s Natacha herself.’ -Karen S

              Well, that tells us a little something about how Karen ‘thinks’ — or doesn’t ‘think.’

          1. HAHAHAHAHA tyou so vapid and obtuse,
            GF killed himself……police had nothing to do with it , he was dying regardless of what the police did.

        2. Obsessing Natacha – you still won’t say why you think George Floyd did not have a fatal overdose, or why he repeatedly said he couldn’t breathe long before he said he wanted to lie down on the ground, where Chauvin subsequently knelt on him.

          In your “professional” opinion, nurse/lawyer, why couldn’t George Floyd breathe in the car, professed nurse/lawyer Natacha? Please enlighten us.

          It’s grim to think a real nurse would consider someone “fine” with THC, fentanyl, meth, nicotine, and morphine in his system, and not in imminent danger because of those drugs.

          Here is what the ER doctor actually said about asphyxia:

          “Nelson: There are many things that cause hypoxia that are still considered asphyxiation?

          Langenfeld: Correct.

          Nelson: Drug use, certain drugs, can cause hypoxia?

          Langenfeld: Correct.

          Nelson: Specifically fentanyl?

          Langenfeld: That’s correct.

          Nelson: How about methamphetamine?

          Langenfeld: It can.

          Nelson: Combination of the two?

          Langenfeld: Yes

          Nelson also questioned Langenfeld about carbon dioxide levels relative to shortness of breath.

          The doctor agreed that higher levels of CO2 can lead to a sensation of a shortness of breath, even without added stress. Langenfeld also said that fentanyl can cause higher CO2 levels, “because it depresses the ventilation, or the breathing.”

          Floyd’s CO2 levels were double what is average when Langenfeld attended to him, he said.”

          Most agree that Chauvin acted wrongly, but it will be difficult to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Chauvin, and only Chauvin, caused George Floyd’s death, and if so, whether it was on purpose.

        3. Natacha please pay attention.
          She’s giving you the facts from the coroner’s report.

          The ER doc’s testimony is noise. He didn’t have the autopsy report.

          1. “The ER doc’s testimony is noise.” — Anon @4:04

            lol

            Your comment — the entirety of it — is “noise.”

                1. @Natacha aka other Anon…

                  I guess you’re too busy making things up… like claiming to be a nurse and a lawyer.

                  So lets look at the autopsy report. Two numbers.
                  Fentanyl in the blood is 11 ng/mL.
                  Norfentanyl in the urine is 5.6 ng/mL

                  You can easily confirm this … no? (See Karen S’s post w link to actual doc.)

                  Now lets see what this means.
                  1) norfentanyl is the breakdown of fentanyl by the body. Its an indication of prior/prolonged drug use. (fentanyl abuse). 5.6 is a very high dose.

                  2) fentanyl levels of 11 ng/mL is a fatal level. You can google this and find an article in Frontier in Pharmacology and look at graph 4.
                  From autopsies they found levels of 11 ng/mL in the blood or 13 ng/mL in the cardiac or 13 ng/mL in not specified location. If you want to argue that 11 is near fatal, and 13 is fatal… I’m not going to argue against it.

                  So if you take Floyd’s underlying medical condition, prolonged drug use, and the high level found in the blood work.
                  The drugs most likely are the primary cause of Floyd’s non-cardiogenic pulmonary edema which led to cardiac arrest.

                  The icing on the cake… the video of Floyd being walked to the squad car and then his reaction inside long before Chauvin touched him.

                  So you have ample reasonable doubt.

                  What is disappointing is that Turley’s personal bias leads him to suggest that it was Chauvin’s actions which led to the non-cardiogenic edema and not the drugs. The captured video from the police cameras would indicate it otherwise.

          2. The coroner’s report states that he died of “cardiopulmonary arrest while under restraint” not fentanyl overdose. Period. The ER doctor who treated Floyd said he died of asphyxia, based on the cardiac rhythm strips he ordered and reviewed. The autopsy proves that he did not die of a heart attack, COVID or fentanyl overdose. I never said Floyd was “fine”. Contrary to the nonsensical argument that he was dying of cardiac distress or overdose before Chauvin asphyxiated him, I said he was walking around, talking to people and purchasing cigarettes. Someone who is dying of cardiac distress or an overdose doesn’t do these things.

            Everything Kare writes is noise. She is an ignoramus know it all who won’t back down.

            1. @Natacha

              I guess you can’t grasp the facts.
              Also the coroner didn’t have access to the police videos of Floyd actions.

              This is where the prosecution is going to push that the non-cardiogenic pulmonary edema is going to be due to the restraint, and the defense is going to show that its due to the high levels of drugs in his system.

              Free clue.
              Floyd started to go into cardiac arrest prior to Chauvin restraining him.
              Watch the scene where he’s resisting arrest while in the back of the officer’s squad car.

              1. “This is where the prosecution is going to push that the non-cardiogenic pulmonary edema is going to be due to the restraint, and the defense is going to show that its due to the high levels of drugs in his system.”

                smh

                a little knowledge is a dangerous thing

            2. So the coroner said he died of cardiopulmonary arrest, but “the autopsy proves that he did not die of a heart attack”. Aren’t those the same thing?

              1. They are not the same thing. Heart Attack is from clogged artery that blocks blood flow to the heart. Heart Failure is when the heart crashes under
                physical exertion like fighting with police. Congestive Heart failure is how many of us die of old age. Hang out in an open heart rehab room with
                the exercise bikes and heart monitors. If your heart rate goes down under exertion you are in heart failure. My late wife went through this and she said as we wheeled her downstairs to ER that she could not breath

            3. Natacha said, “I never said Floyd was ‘fine.’:”

              Sure you did. Right here, April 5 at 4:19 PM:

              https://jonathanturley.org/2021/04/05/prosecutors-ask-jurors-to-dismiss-george-floyd-autopsy-findings/comment-page-3/#comment-2077790

              Direct quote from Natacha’s comment:
              “What condition, Dr. Karen? Whatever these conditions were, he was fine until Chauvin knelt on his neck; how you you know that kneeling on Floyd’s neck didn’t cause lung congestion?”

              That’s why I put the word “fine” in quotation marks; it was the adjective you used.

              Please read your snarky comment one more time, because it supports reasonable doubt.

              How do you know that George Floyd did not have a fatal overdose? Bodycam footage and accompanying transcript shows Floyd repeatedly say he couldn’t breathe before Chauvin ever touched him. I’ve asked you repeatedly why you think Floyd couldn’t breathe before Chauvin even came near him, if, as you said, he was “fine”, but you won’t answer. I have to assume, then, that you just won’t acknowledge that it’s a symptom of an overdose, and not being able to breathe prior to being knelt upon could have indicated exited delirium and pulmonary edema.

              How do you know that Floyd would have been alive today, or even an hour longer, had Chauvin never put his knee upon him?

              Answer: you don’t. And that means there is reasonable doubt.

              How do you know the fentanyl, meth, THC, and morphine didn’t cause his respiratory failure?

              Answer: you don’t.

              You must doubt, as well, because you have made no answer as to why Floyd couldn’t breathe prior to Chauvin touching him.

              You asked how do I know that Chauvin kneeling on Floyd’s neck didn’t cause lung congestion? Answer: I don’t. A better question would be to wonder if the kneeling added to or exacerbated the respiratory distress that preceded his death. There was no evidence of injury to the neck from Chauvin’s knee. Without evidence of injury, and with all those drugs in his system as well as his respiratory distress earlier, neither you, nor anyone else but God knows if Floyd could have survived that deadly speedball. Tolerance has its limits.

              The autopsy report found no injuries to his throat. While it is indeed possible to compress the carotid artery without bruising, Floyd was struggling and had marks elsewhere. This wasn’t Spock using a subtle Vulcan move. It was a knee. Since Floyd was bruised elsewhere from the struggle, why wouldn’t the knee have bruised or injured the neck if it was over the carotid and bearing weight? The jury would have to be convinced that Chauvin cut off his air- or blood flow without leaving a mark, during a struggle, and to disregard the presence of fentanyl, meth, THC, and morphine in his blood, as well as his prior statement that he couldn’t breathe.

              It becomes very difficult to prove whether Floyd would have lived had Chauvin not been there.

              I have said before that Chauvin might have hastened the death of an ODing man, but again, that would have to be proven.

              Given the very serious threats against jurors, their families, and cities across America, the jury might find Chauvin guilty just to appease violent mobs.

              Manslaughter seems the easiest to prove, due to the negligence involved, but again, prosecution would have to prove that Chauvin killed Floyd and not the drugs.

              I am not defending Chauvin kneeling on Floyd for 9 minutes, or his failure to move Floyd to a different position to at least try to alleviate his panic and respiratory distress. But as stated, I have not heard evidence that Chauvin murdered Floyd. I also do not agree with charging the rookies. Lang, for example, tried several times to get Chauvin to move Floyd to his side.

              1. Karen S to Natch: “how do I know that Chauvin kneeling on Floyd’s neck didn’t cause lung congestion?”
                ***
                Easy enough now to know. Two of the prosecution witnesses admitted on cross that Chauvin’s knee was on Floyd’s back rather than on his neck and it was in a position that both prosecution experts had used themselves. It was safe.

                Now several days into the trial only two things, separately or in combination, are known to have been likely to cause Floyd’s death: Drugs he took and Multiple Diseases. “Knee on neck” is out.

        4. Cardio pulmonary resuscitation efforts would continue to move the bloodstream to some degree, which would impact settling, up until the point that such efforts ceased.

          You have claimed that Floyd was “fine” and had not OD’d, paradoxically because postmortem redistribution makes comparisons difficult with in vivo fentanyl levels. But if that’s the case, you also don’t know if the in vivo levels were sufficient to OD or not. Then there is the issue of built up tolerance, and the fact that his girlfriend said they didn’t actually know what was in the drugs they took, let alone the concentration of any component.

          But, I guess you “just know”, as a nurse/lawyer.

          “While under restraint” does not mean “due to restraint.”

          Answer the question. Why did George Floyd repeatedly say he couldn’t breathe before Chauvin ever touched him if you claim he was “fine” with fentanyl, meth, THC, morphine, nicotine, and caffeine in his system, plus sickle cell, Covid, severe arteriosclerotic heart disease, and hypertension?

          Remember, in spite of your self righteousness, you have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Chauvin killed Floyd, and that Floyd would have lived, at least longer, had Chauvin never knelt upon him.

          So they have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he did not die from meth, fentanyl, THC, and morphine plus exited delirium, sickle cell, Covid, hypertension, and severe arteriosclerotic disease. All the jurors have to be absolutely convinced that he would have survived the drugs, and that the respiratory distress that began immediately had nothing to do with the drugs.

          I don’t know if jurors will be swayed by all the threats of violence. The defense is certainly vulnerable on issues of Chauvin’s judgement and behavior.

          But this would have been a different case if Floyd had been healthy and stone cold sober.

          No matter what you say, it’s just your opinion. You don’t have any insider knowledge or special information, and your opinion holds no more weight than any of the rest of us here. The jury will decide, and then we will all have our opinions about whether justice was served.

          1. You don’t know anything, Karen. You’re just a stupid, spoiled girl who likes to mouth off and pretend she knows all about medical matters, the law, and politics.

              1. @Mr. V
                Well she’s actually wrong on one thing…
                Frontiers in Pharmacology have a paper on this… down in chart 4 (going from memory) depending where the blood was drawn (post mortem) the level of 11 ng/mL or 13 ng/mL is fatal.

                While everyone cautions that there isn’t s specific number because of habitual drug use and other factors… the number will shift… Floyd’s levels are in that fatal range. To make things worse for Floyd, the norfentanyl levels of 5.6 ng/mL show he was a habitual abuser, but also his medical history.

                Tolerance or not, CPR or not… if you use the non-specified levels of 13 vs the 11, he was at a near fatal dose.

                Based on the videos… (which I don’t think the coroner sees…) Floyd was already dying before Chauvin even touched him.

                1. Based on the pulmonologist who wrote the “bible” on respiratory issues who testified today. You are dead wrong.

                  1. As we know, most people on this blog, don’t have a medical background. And they also have an agenda. It’s a dangerous combination.

                    The pulmonologist’s testimony was quite compelling.

                  2. So you read somewhere that he was “the guy who wrote the bible” and are taking that to mean what? And repeating it why? You’re just repeating a manipulative phrasing meant to make people think he’s credible. Did you do any research on him? Please share.

            1. “You’re just a stupid, spoiled girl”

              Projecting your shadow onto other posters is a very bad look.

              Do you know how many black people have died as a result of the George Floyd inspired BLM/Antifa riots?

              The reason I ask is because you pretend to care about black American “Lives”. So, you should know the answer?

            2. Answer the questions, nurse/lawyer Natacha:

              Why did George Floyd say repeatedly that he couldn’t breathe long before Chauvin ever touched him.

              You wrote that he was “fine” and that Chauvin killed him. OK. So why couldn’t George Floyd breathe before Chauvin touched him?

              I’ve asked you over and over again. You can call me names all you want. It’s here for all to see that you won’t answer this simple question.

              1. The fact that you lack the intellectual capacity to understand the response to this that has been provided repeatedly does not mean I didn’t respond. Here it goes again: FLOYD SAID HE WAS CLAUSTROPHOBIC at the idea of being placed in a police car. He was breathing until Chauvin squeezed the life out of him. You might learn something if you paid attention to the pulmonologist who testified this morning. But, you are a spoiled know it all, so facts don’t faze you.

                1. The trial is still ongoing and any level-headed, rational person, that truly wants to get to the bottom of this- has not made up their mind yet. You have. Without all the evidence, without even hearing the defense. Thus, anything you say and any argument you make is invalid.

          2. stop wasting time on the 2 morons with zero critical thinking ability, they are brainwashed vapid cult members of the left.
            everyone with any discernment knows GF killed himself with ODing

        5. his knee was NEVER on his neck ,ahahhahahaha, it was on his back, as the defense showed in multiple picture and videos,

        6. hahahahahaha, triggered leftist mad that their false reality is crumbling under facts and evidence, ahahahhaa, you were told a lie , just like HANDS UP DON’T SHOOT!!! OR LITTLE TRAVON (6’2 215LBS)

        7. The ER doctor did not conduct an autopsy.
          Something is not true – just because someone says it is true.

          We have been through nonsense like this before – we had a spate of shaken baby cases for a decade, there are people – mostly women in jail for them. Yet, the medical evidence is that most of those are bogus. That it is actually quite hard to kill an infant that way.

          Something is not true just because it has been said.

          The amount of fentanyl in Floyd’s blood was well beyond lethal.
          It is near certain that Floyd was dying before Chauvin put his knee on him.

          I do not know what the Jury here will do. We have 12 people who can be pretty sure that the country is going to errupt in riots and bloodshed if they do not lock Chauvin up for life.

          If that were not the case – this would be an open and shut case.

          We can fight over whether Chauvin is a good guy, whether he should be a cop, whether his actions were justified or even criminal. but any claims that Floyd was murdered evaporated long ago.

          But this is about the legitimacy of the left.

          Floyd was your cause de celeb. If all the ranting and rioting over Floyd was a lie – a rush to judgement – it destroys your credibility – a bit more.

          Is there anything in the past 4 years (or more) that you have been right about ?

          People make mistakes – they are supposed to learn from their mistakes – there is no evidence that you have.

          You continue to buy nonsensical political nonsense. Not facts.

          I would note that this prosecution goes against everything that the left used to claim they beleived in.

          IF juries are not required to follow the evidence in this case – why should they do so in others ?
          I do not know the law in Minnesota, but in my state Floyd’s drug dealer – the witness that is now taking the fifth, would be a slam dunk for drug delivery resulting in death.

        8. Natch: “The ER doctor said he died of asphyxia.”
          ***
          And he also said asphyxia could be caused by drugs.

          The other prosecution witness said Chauvin’s knee was not on Floyd’s neck.

          The state has no case. The state’s witnesses sound like defense witnesses.

          1. @Young,
            You have to be careful here.

            The witness indicated that the knee didn’t have to be on the neck and that even on the shoulder, any force would be a stressor.

            I do agree with you and w Karen that Floyd was going into cardiac arrest before Chauvin touched him.

            I do agree that the defense will have a field day making their case based on Floyd’s actions and the toxicology report.

            I do agree that there is ample evidence to suggest that Floyd’s death was not due to being restrained by Chauvin.

            But you can never tell what a jury will do.

            The officer who shot Laquan McDonald went to jail mainly because he emptied his gun as McDonald continued to approach him while holding a knife.

      2. Karen S ‘From the autopsy report above. Note that the collection time of hospital blood samples were taken at 21:00 hours, 25 minutes before he was pronounced dead. Toxicology also flagged morphine.”‘

        To clarify:

        George Floyd’s actual time of death was likely a little over 30 minutes before his blood was drawn at “2100 hours.”

        “George Floyd was dead by the time medical help arrived, a paramedic testified.”

        April 1, 2021, 3:16 p.m.

        By Nicholas Bogel-Burroughs

        https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/01/us/george-floyd-emt-paramedics.html

        “They [paramedics] arrived at about 8:27 p.m.”

    2. No evidence of myocardial infarction, which would be expected if he died of a heart attack rather than asphyxia as the ER doctor testified to.

      1. Bzzzzt!

        You can have cardiac arrest without having myocardial infarction.
        Free clue. Pulmonary Edema plays a role.

        You sure you’re a nurse? Maybe an LP or a school nurse?

        1. Bzzzt: Karen said he died of coronary artery disease, COVID, sickle cell anemia, fentanyl overdose, everything but Chauvin kneeling on his neck. No proof or evidence of this. Merely having plaque in the coronary arteries does not equate to a fatal heart attack or existing heart disease. Yes, you can have a cardiac arrest without having a myocardial infarction, due to asphyxia, resulting in low oxygen levels, just like the ER doctor said he observed on the EKG.

          1. Natacha:

            Stop lying. I never said “he died of coronary artery disease.”

            What I actually said in the posts above:

            “Most agree that Chauvin acted wrongly, but it will be difficult to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Chauvin, and only Chauvin, caused George Floyd’s death, and if so, whether it was on purpose.”

            “Answer the question. Why did George Floyd repeatedly say he couldn’t breathe before Chauvin ever touched him if you claim he was “fine” with fentanyl, meth, THC, morphine, nicotine, and caffeine in his system, plus sickle cell, Covid, severe arteriosclerotic heart disease, and hypertension?

            Remember, in spite of your self righteousness, you have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Chauvin killed Floyd, and that Floyd would have lived, at least longer, had Chauvin never knelt upon him.

            So they have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he did not die from meth, fentanyl, THC, and morphine plus exited delirium, sickle cell, Covid, hypertension, and severe arteriosclerotic disease. All the jurors have to be absolutely convinced that he would have survived the drugs, and that the respiratory distress that began immediately had nothing to do with the drugs.

            I don’t know if jurors will be swayed by all the threats of violence. The defense is certainly vulnerable on issues of Chauvin’s judgement and behavior.

            But this would have been a different case if Floyd had been healthy and stone cold sober.”

            The jury will have to decide if Chauvin killed Floyd, if he died of a fatal OD, or if it was a combination of the two. His health problems could certainly have increased the likelihood of a fatal OD. There is no denying that George Floyd repeatedly said he couldn’t breathe before Chauvin laid hands on him, or that he had foam on his mouth at the beginning of the incident. I’ve included the transcripts of body cam footage upstream. So among the many issues put before the jury, they will have to determine if he was already ODing, if he was dying on his own, and if Chauvin’s actions hastened his death.

            People who ingest Fentanyl with meth and morphine court death. It’s not a safe recreational habit. It’s going to be hard to prove Floyd would have lived otherwise had Chauvin never knelt upon him. While Chauvin will be hard pressed to defend kneeling on his back for so long, and making no overt move to improve his breathing until EMTs arrived, all he has to do is create a reasonable doubt that he actually caused Floyd’s death, instead of showed negligence or disregard for his suffering. Chauvin showed poor judgement. But it’s at question whether he actually killed Floyd. That’s what the trial is to decide.

            You don’t seem to have any question about it, nor do you appear to require any evidence, or deal with any pesky evidence that undermines the case. You sure you’re a nurse and a lawyer?

  9. ‘“The System of Policing Is on Trial”: Derek Chauvin Murder Case Is About More Than Just George Floyd’

      1. There’s no shortage of dim bulbs in this country, but do carry on with your pointless shouting.

      2. @Jimmy Matho,

        Uhm that’s not actually true.

        Frontiers in Pharmacology has an article on post mortem toxicology of synthetic opioids. (which includes fentanyl)

        Based on where the blood was drawn the level could be as low as 11 ng/mL or 13 ng/mL.
        Since he also had a norfentanyl level of 5.6 ng/mL in his urine, it showed he was a habitual abuser of fentanyl.

        The 4X is a bit misleading. The statement was made by the coroner to indicate the levels in Floyd could have been fatal considering that he’s seen cases where a level of 3ng/mL was enough to prove fatal. The fatal dose is variable based on the physical attributes of the person along w being a habitual abuser.

        So if you use the paper… 11ng/mL could be fatal where 13ng/mL is fatal.

        Other than that.. I agree that Floyd was dying even before he was arrested.

        1. Long-term users can develop a tolerance well above what would be a fatal limit for a non-user.

  10. “Chauvin trial resumes with police saying officer’s ‘unauthorized’ neck restraint on Floyd considered ‘an act of aggression’”

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/04/06/live-updates-chauvin-trial-resumes-after-police-chief-condemns-officer-absolutely-violating-policy-while-restraining-floyd/

    “The trial of Derek Chauvin continued Tuesday with Minneapolis Police Lt. Johnny Mercil, the use-of-force coordinator for the department, saying that the neck restraint used by the former officer on George Floyd is considered “unauthorized.” “It would be an act of aggression,” Mercil said of the restraint to prosecutors.”

    1. How about the body camera film of one of the other officers there, clearly shows Chauvin’s knee on Floyd’s back and not on his neck???

    2. KNEE WAS NEVER ON NECK!!!!!
      was on his back and tests showed you could put 200lbs there and STILL BREATH.
      ahahahahahahahahaha

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