Below is my column in USA Today on the disturbing comments of former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn in favor of a military coup. He later insisted that he was misquoted but the videotape confirms that he was for a military coup before he was against it last week. It is certainly positive to see Flynn deny support for a military coup, but the incident is the latest example of our growing addiction to rage — and the loss of our common constitutional faith.
Here is the column:
Gen. Michael Flynn appears to be man adrift. Flynn was pummeled by prosecutors to the point of bankruptcy and subjected to serious errors in prosecutorial and judicial misconduct for years. Despite my criticism of his prosecution, however, some of us noticed a rise of unhinged and undemocratic rhetoric from the former national security adviser.
Now Flynn appears to be endorsing an actual military coup after comments at an event held in Dallas. When prompted by an audience member, Flynn declared that we should have a military coup in this country like the one in Myanmar. The comment was a disgrace to all of the men or women who served with Flynn. It is particularly disgusting on the Memorial Day weekend when we honor all those who gave their lives for our country. He later effectively retracted his statement but the damage was done.
Military can threaten constitutional governance
During a question-and-answer session on Sunday, an audience member asked Flynn, while mispronouncing the Southeast Asian nation’s name: “I want to know why what happened in Myanmar can’t happen here?”
Flynn responded, “No reason, I mean, it should happen here. No reason. That’s right.” It was stated without a hint of sarcasm or poor humor. It was a matter-of-fact declaration that severed any connections of Flynn to our Constitution values or traditions.
As a retired Army lieutenant general, Flynn once took an oath to “support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.” I have always noted that the oath is to the Constitution itself, not a general reference to the country. This country is defined by our Constitution, including both its representative democratic process and its civilian leadership.
Myanmar is a vivid and brutal example of the costs of living in a nation without a faithful and loyal military dedicated to a constitutional process. Hundreds were killed and President Win Myint and Aung San Suu Kyi were arrested. Thousands of citizens have taken to the streets to protest and resist the military rule.
The Founding Fathers were so distrustful of military interference with civilian rule that many opposed a standing army. Even James Madison raised the concern of how a military can a threat to a constitutional system of governance:
“In time of actual war, great discretionary powers are constantly given to the Executive Magistrate. Constant apprehension of War, has the same tendency to render the head too large for the body. A standing military force, with an overgrown Executive, will not long be safe companions to liberty. The means of defense against foreign danger, have been always the instruments of tyranny at home. Among the Romans it was a standing maxim to excite a war, whenever a revolt was apprehended. Throughout all Europe, the armies kept up under the pretext of defending, have enslaved the people.”
As discussed in my prior writings on the United States military and its history, the initially partisan military leadership after the revolution soon adopted a core adherence to a professional, apolitical tradition that continues to this day.
Relatively few military officers questioned or challenged civilian authority in our history. Those who did, like General Douglas MacArthur during the Korean War, were quickly and correctly sent into ignoble retirement.
Flynn later backtracked and declared “Let me be VERY CLEAR – There is NO reason whatsoever for any coup in America, and I do not and have not at any time called for any action of that sort.” He then appears to be blaming the media for “manipulating” his words as a “lively conference.” That is not true. I watched the video and he matter-of-factly endorses the idea of a coup.
Rage and faith in the Constitution
For those who love our Constitution and our country, the statement of Gen. Flynn could not be more offensive or grotesque. We have our flaws and our imperfections. However, the thing that has sustained up for over two centuries is our Constitution. Despite wars and every type of national trauma, we are still here. Our political differences have never become so great as to shake our common article of faith in our Constitution. Of course, it takes a leap of faith by every citizen to remain constitutionally loyal even when you have not prevailed politically. Flynn previously appeared to call for martial law to keep Trump in office. Even with his later backtracking on the call for a coup, Flynn has clearly lost the article of faith that binds us to each other. Instead, he appears adrift in the type of floating rage of the QAnon realm.
I have long opposed the use of sedition laws to punish figures like Flynn for making such statements (including recent efforts to return to sedition prosecutions). As a free speech advocate, I oppose such criminalization of viewpoints. However, we should all (including former President Donald Trump) condemn Flynn for this public statement even if we disagreed with elements of his prosecution. He is a man who lost that constitutional faith, regardless of his later effort to retract his statement. It is like expressing approval of infanticide before reaffirming your love for babies. The initial comment reflects something truly unnerving. I truly pity him for that loss. It leaves him with little but rage, which can become its own type of faith. Indeed, we live at a time when people are addicted to rage. Flynn is now is the face of that addiction.
Jonathan Turley is the Shapiro Professor of Public Interest Law at George Washington University and a member of USA TODAY’s Board of Contributors. Follow him on Twitter: @JonathanTurley
“It was a matter-of-fact declaration that severed any connections of Flynn to our Constitution values or traditions.”
– Professor Turley
______________
Are you ——- kidding me?
“It was a matter-of-fact declaration that severed any connections of [the democrats who stole the 2020 election] to our Constitution values or traditions.”
It was the effect of multiple, demonstrable, de facto violations of state, federal and constitutional election laws which facilitated the appropriation of the 2020 presidential election by democrats, at irredeemable variance to the Constitution – soon to be revealed by “key state” ballot audits.
The actual “Big Lie” is pretending that the massive statistical anomalies from the 2020 vote don’t exist.
Also that Facebook, Google, Twitter, the corporate media, CIA, FBI, embedded bureaucracy, et al, all colluded to influence the election to help Biden in every way they possibly could.
No justice. No peace.
“It was a matter-of-fact declaration that severed any connections of Flynn to our Constitution values or traditions.”
– Professor Turley
______________
Are you ——- kidding me?
“It was a matter-of-fact declaration that severed any connections of [the co-conspirators in the Obama Coup D’etat in America} to our Constitution values or traditions.”
The Obama Coup D’etat in America is the most egregious abuse of power and the most prodigious crime in American political history.
The co-conspirators are:
Kevin Clinesmith, Bill Taylor, Eric Ciaramella, Rosenstein, Mueller/Team, Andrew Weissmann,
James Comey, Christopher Wray, McCabe, Strozk, Page, Laycock, Kadzic,
Sally Yates, James Baker, Bruce Ohr, Nellie Ohr, Priestap, Kortan, Campbell,
Sir Richard Dearlove, Christopher Steele, Simpson, Joseph Mifsud,
Alexander Downer, Stefan “The Walrus” Halper, Azra Turk, Kerry, Hillary,
Huma, Mills, Brennan, Gina Haspel, Clapper, Lerner, Farkas, Power, Lynch,
Rice, Jarrett, Holder, Brazile, Sessions (patsy), Nadler, Schiff, Pelosi, Obama,
Joe Biden, James E. Boasberg, Emmet Sullivan, et al.
“It was a matter-of-fact declaration that severed any connections of Flynn to our Constitution values or traditions.”
– Professor Turley
______________
Are you ——- kidding me?
“It was a matter-of-fact declaration that severed any connections of [the judicial branch and Supreme Court] to our Constitution values or traditions.”
The judicial branch and Supreme Court have willfully controverted, voided and nullified the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights in favor of progressive communism since 1860.
The entire communistic American welfare state is unconstitutional, including but not limited to, affirmative action, quotas, welfare, food stamps, rent control, social services, forced busing, minimum wage, utility subsidies, WIC, TANF, SNAP, HAMP, HARP, TARP, Agriculture, Commerce, Education, Labor, Energy, Obamacare, Social Security, Social Security Disability, Social Security Supplemental Income, Medicare, Medicaid, “Fair Housing” laws, “Non-Discrimination” laws, etc.
Article 1, Section 8, provides Congress the power to tax ONLY for “…general Welfare…,” omitting and, thereby, excluding any power to tax for individual or specific welfare, redistribution of wealth or charity. The same article provides Congress the power to regulate ONLY money, the “flow” of commerce and land and naval Forces. Additionally, the 5th Amendment right to private property is not qualified by the Constitution and is, therefore, absolute, allowing Congress no power to claim or exercise dominion over private property, the sole exception being the full taking of property under the principle of eminent domain.
Government exists, under the Constitution and Bill of Rights, to provide maximal freedom to individuals while it is severely limited and restricted to merely facilitating that maximal freedom of individuals through the provision of security and infrastructure.
Karl Marx wrote the Communist Manifesto 59 years after the adoption of the Constitution because none of the principles of the Communist Manifesto were in the Constitution. Had the principles of the Communist Manifesto been in the Constitution, Karl Marx would have had no reason to write the Communist Manifesto. The principles of the Communist Manifesto were not in the Constitution then and the principles of the Communist Manifesto are not in the Constitution now.
We’ll hear comments made by many about Trump and Trump supporters, who I am one, that they espouse this or that. It will all be self aggrandizing because that’s all it has been for many years. BUT, even though I fully supported General Flynn with monetary and social media posts, his speech is detrimental to our country. What is happening now in our country is dangerous twofold: First, all Trump/Republican/Conservative supporters are dumfounded how for four + years an abuse of the constitution could take place in many facets. FISA, Impeachment, criminal fishing expeditions, all out assault on the Supreme Court, Anti Police actions and rhetoric, reverse racism (Critical Race Theory) to a general attempt to suppress groups of people (races) unjustly, Etc. On the other hand, statements like these and the attack on the Capitol on January 6th are a failure of our system because we are becoming further divided and there is a chance at what they are labeling (and stirring fears, as our government does) “white-supremacy attacks.” You have those moving toward true Federalism because they fear and mistrust our Governmental institutions. This has been a long time coming. It is a powder keg waiting for a spark. The fault absolutely lies on both sides due to misleading and illegal/corrupt activities. Every time an allegation is announced it disappears into the media and government abyss (there are too many to name). No one believes in a sense of justice any more. Democratic leaders degrade the people but call for suppression of their anger. Anger begets anger. I just can’t explain why Joe Biden cannot put everything aside and do what he said he would do? He called for unity. He absolutely can created that unity as the President. I am talking about with the People. That is where securing peace and harmony exists. He refuses to do it and even stopped talking about it. We are here now, never mind President Trump. As President you need to unify and lead. Someone needs to lead before things explode. Is is obvious the supposed powers that be choose division because they think it will bring about social justice. I am not so sure that will work. Social Justice starts with equality for all. It does not exist in tearing down our system of government, system of justice, our norms and history, causing fear and anger in the masses, and a major push to censure and delete the basic Constitutional freedoms. It will lead to ruin.Congress for decades has failed in their duties to legislate. Federalism is on the rise which doesn’t bode well for a unified sense of governance. We just shake our heads out here at the dangerous circus and hope for the best. We have been infiltrated on both sides by anarchists. They cannot win or else we will fall into that “dark” sense as a country (dark/sinful is the now buzzword). Let’s hope not.
“Social Justice starts with equality for all.”
No, no, no. The Biden administration are calling it “equity” (for some) which really means “injustice” for all.
“He absolutely can created that unity as the President.”
How?
What do you think would result in unity?
Karen,
Despite promoting the Big Lie for months, Fox News does not promote or even mention Trump’s delusional prediction that he will be reinstated in August. The prime time hosts are too embarrassed to cover him now. If Trump is convicted as a tax cheat or otherwise a fraud, perhaps that conviction finally will cause Trumpists to loose faith in Trump. Maybe his felony conviction will be the turning point to embolden heretofore reluctant Republicans to denounce Trumpism once and for all.
Flynn should be given the benefit of the doubt. You know, same way the corrupt media gloss over President Biden’s flubs every time he tries to read his teleprompter. Biden is always given a big fluffing up by the sycophants who call themselves ‘journalists doing journalism.’ (versus the vicious tearing down Trump and Republicans get from the media)
Biden is a doddering mental case and everyone knows and accepts it. Flynn is ex-military and when he speaks unfortunately a lot of right wing mental case Q-anon types listen to him as utterance from God.
Obama and HRC gave us Trump, whom gave us Biden. Right wing nut cases would be better off admitting that Trump was a scum bag and we’d be better off if he left the political stage now and forever.
Hey GOP lovers: what happened to Trump’s “Better than Obamacare?”
Someone I know is very close with at least two right wing mental case Trumpists, both extreme Protestant “Christians” (quotes because the last person these ding bats actually emulate is Christ.) One of these two women, if you mention anyone’s name whom has “cheated” on their spouse, this woman instantly summarizes that person’s entire life as a “cheater” or “adulterer.” But she LOVES Trump to no end, whom can do wrong.
I want to ask this mentally deficient idiot: “Are there any other whore mongers whom you adore and support besides Trump, or is he the only one? Why do you give Trump a pass for his whoremongering?” It’s obviously not a coincidence that she seems to have a lot of DNA similar to Trump.
“Are there any other whore mongers whom you adore and support besides Trump, or is he the only one?”
Um, last we checked, the feminists still favor the scumbag power duo Bill and Hillary Clinton. Why? We don’t know, other than being Democrats.
We are being force-fed Kamala Harris as some kind of role-model for young women to admire simply because she’s of color other than white. She had a privileged upbringing by educated parents, yet she plays the victim woman of color who came from nothing. She whored her way into political power by blowing Willie Brown. She was at one time a side hoe to Montel Williams. She stands for nothing and giggles at everything. She was the chosen one promoted and favored by the Obamas, the media, Big Tech, etc, and yet she was still so cringe-worthy and unlikeable that her presidential campaign imploded before Iowa. Way to go!
So why do you give any of these Dems a pass for their whoremongering?
Classic whataboutism. Bravo!
Thank you.
So you see no hypocrisy on this woman’s part? To this “Christian” (the last thing she is) all adulterers are now and forever labeled and summarized as “adulterers.” But she loves and adores one of the biggest adulterer/whoremongers to ever walk the earth, a man who publicly stated he wants to pork his daughter.
That’s the subject. What has this to do with Bill and Hillary, both of whom IMO the CIA recruited in College (same as John Kerry.)
Right, thanks for getting focus back on the subject. Sure it’s hypocritical… just as Dems drown in their own hypocrisy when it comes to national politics. #MeToo went away when too many women were coming forward accusing high profile Dems. It was only useful to bash and destroy Republicans, once the tide shifted to bite their own in the ass, the movement disappeared.
And come on, “one of the biggest adulterer/whoremongers to ever walk the earth”? Hardly.
Admitted hyperbole. But did he not cheat on his current wife while she was pregnant?
More repeating of Fox News talking points. Tell us, if Hillary Clinton is so odious, then why did more Americans vote for her than your fat, orange hero? Why did he find it necessary to accept Russia’s help to cheat, by spreading lies about her on social media in certain districts. And, where the hell do you get off defaming Kamala Harris by accusing her of sexual misconduct? How could any sensible person accuse Democrats of whoremongering when your fat hero brags about assaulting women?
If a military coup installs a president in the WH. Do you impeach to get him out or do you look for other methods? Are his EOs nullities?
If a subversive group using support from a hostile power, say Chinese army computer agents, performs a coup by election engineering, what methods are available to get him out of office? Are his EOs nullities?
What significant difference is there between the two different coups? None. .
Precisely why it was such a key moment in U.S. history to block trump’s attempts to overthrow the vote in Arizona, Georgia, Pennsylvania and Michigan.
eb
You think there’s no significant difference between a domestic military coup and foreign interference? Seriously?
Anon “domestic military coup and foreign interference? ”
**
I didn’t say foreign interference; I did say coup. There is a substantial difference that you deliberately chose to obscure.
COME ON! Can’t you read English? Read what Flynn said – “No reason, I mean, it should happen here. No reason. That’s right.” He’s saying there’s no reason it should happen here, period. He did not say “It should happen here,” he said there’s no reason it should happen here. On the other hand, if I were him, I’d be more down on this country than I already am. Bear in mind that Obama ostracized him because he didn’t tell him what he wanted to hear, and fired him from his position as head of the Defense Intelligence Agency. Then when Donald Trump appointed him as his national security advisor, Obama’s goons came up with a fake claim in order to prevent him from having a role in the Trump administration, then on top of that, they bankrupted him in order to get a “confession” out of him. The media distorts everything he says, just as they did with this. But that’s what propagandists do.
By the way, military oaths are only binding during the period of that person’s service. I spent 12 years in the military and reenlisted twice. Each time I had to repeat the oath because it expired at the end of each enlistment. Officers are different because they serve at the pleasure of the government and don’t serve terms. They serve either until they resign or retire. Nevertheless, that oath dies when they leave the service, the UCMJ withstanding. Now, if Flynn had said what those who can’t understand English claim he did, he could be disciplined if still in the military but he didn’t and he isn’t.
“Can’t you read English?”
I read quite well. I also know that when someone creates a transcript from spoken words, the person creating the transcript has to decide what punctuation to use, as spoken speech doesn’t include punctuation.
Here are two possibilities for transcribing the exchange:
“I want to know why what happened in Minamar [sic] can’t happen here?”
“No reason, I mean, it should happen here.
versus
“I want to know why what happened in Minamar [sic] can’t happen here?”
“No reason. I mean, it should happen here.
To know which he said, you have to listen to it. Here’s the video –
https://twitter.com/MC_Hyperbole/status/1399129297240084489
Sounds to me like the second one, not the first.
The kicker being the use of ‘should’ rather than ‘could’. If a tie breaker is indeed required, my vote says that’s where to look.
eb
“Obama’s goons came up with a fake claim in order to prevent him from having a role in the Trump administration”
BS.
He was interviewed by the FBI during Trump’s administration, and he made false statements to them, as is totally clear from comparing the partial transcript of his discussions with Kislyak and the 302 from his FBI interview.
He was interviewed by the FBI during Trump’s administration, and he made false statements to them
Stop lying. FBI 302 states Flynn did not lie.
“FBI 302 states Flynn did not lie.”
No it doesn’t. You can read it here, Exhibit 6 –
https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/6883959/Flynn-Govt-Motion-to-Dismiss.pdf
Also, I didn’t say “lie.” I said false statements. There is very clear evidence that Flynn made false statements, as statements recorded on the 302 from his interview are contradicted by email and phone records.
Flynn said what almost every hardened Trump supporter already thinks, there’s people out there who actually think Trump will be reinstated. How else would Trump be reinstated, by the overthrow of the government. Everyone should be yelling from the rooftops about Trump and Flynn. If McConnell and McCarthy don’t think that their names won’t be called to be hanged, then they are part of the problem, not the solution.
Oh how i do hope that all you communists reap what you sow. One day it will hopefully be the likes of you that becomes the enemy of the state.
You do realize that the phrase “enemy of the people” comes from Lenin and Stalin. And Trump reused it, over and over.
Not to mention Trump’s non-stop rim job of Uncle Vlad for his entire term.
eb
“You do realize that the phrase “enemy of the people” comes from Lenin and Stalin.”
That would be news to the Roman Senate, who used the phrase to describe Nero. And to Shakespeare, who used it in “Coriolanus.” And to Ibsen, who used it as the title of his most famous play. (All of whom predate Lenin and Stalin.)
And some caveman most likely used it too. Judith used the word communists to say I was the enemy of the people, I went with that reference.
FW
Put on the tinfoil hat or take your meds.
I’m sorry monumentcolorado if what I wrote don’t suit you, maybe, books like Mein kampf and books written by Mussolini Franco, and the President of Sudan would be more to your liking.
You should educate the deplorables on how the process works. Hypothetically, if forensic audits of a general election reveal the election results should never have been certified for the newly inaugurated president, and the actual results should have certified the incumbent, what is the process to remedy this?
OLLY, audits and actual results were certified by republican states and Governor’s. Sorry if you didn’t like the results they recounted and audited.
You didn’t answer the question. It was a hypothetical for any general election, not just the most recent.
Try again.
You want me to answer a question that is hypothetical ? It’s not hypothetical that the mobs will try again to overturn a legal election that they do not like whether in State or Federal.
You began this thread with the following hypothetical:
How else would Trump be reinstated, by the overthrow of the government.
Since you have already asserted hypotheticals warrant consideration, I proposed another hypothetical to test your knowledge of our electoral process and of course your objectivity. And as if it weren’t already abundantly clear, you have neither.
You don’t even qualify to be an enemy of the state. That would require you to at least rise out of your useless idiot status.
Be aware, I took my oath and said out loud, foreign and domestic, and you sir, are the enemy of reality and facts.
There is no established process, as you presumably know.
There are multiple possible processes that could occur in response. For example, if your hypothetical were to occur in the next couple of years, a hypothetical response would be for VP Harris to resign, for Biden to nominate Trump as his VP, and then for Biden to resign, making Trump President.
Out of all of the possible responses, which would occur? No one knows.
But the first step would be for your hypothetical to be proven true. So far, there’s no indication that that will happen.
“There is no established process . . .”
Actually, there is. See: Donohue v. Board of Elections of State of NY, 435 F. Supp. 957 (E.D.N.Y. 1976)
That’s only a governing ruling in EDNY. It doesn’t apply anywhere else in the country.
The scope of the ruling is not the issue. The issue is that a Federal court has already established a “process” for adjudicating such disputes over a presidential election, identified the standard of proof, and the potential remedy.
“It doesn’t apply anywhere else in the country.”
Again, not the issue.
Nonetheless, all a Federal court has to do is follow Donohue v. Board, and issue a national or universal injunction. Such injunctions are now commonplace. Short of that, Federal court rulings with jurisdiction over the affected districts. If there are conflicts among the FC rulings, then (obviously) the cases get kicked up the judicial chain.
“As a retired Army lieutenant general, Flynn once took an oath to “support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.” I have always noted that the oath is to the Constitution itself, not a general reference to the country. This country is defined by our Constitution, including both its representative democratic process and its civilian leadership.”
*************************************
Prior to his personally disastrous foray into politics, Flynn, a Democrat, was a national hero by any standard. The Country’s chief strategist on counter-terrorism, Flynn dismantled terror networks in Iraq and Afghanistan and headed the DIA until forced into retirement after serving his country for 30 years, much of it in Harm’s Way.
Flynn was wrong in his approach and tone in answering the question, but one can certainly see his point. Given his oath to defend the Constitution, Flynn is , like many of us, perplexed by what to do when forces in a democracy use it’s very freedoms to destroy it. First, there are real questions about voter fraud in places like Maricopa County, Philadelphia and other Democratic run fiefdoms that affected a national election. Second, Flynn sees a concerted effort by groups like antifa and BLM to violently install a Marxist-style political system which perverts any notion of personal freedom and individual industry. Finally, Flynn sees a Democratic Administration in league with these dark forces and one that is all too willing to prosecute law-abiding citizens protecting their rights and property yet giving murderous rioters a literal “Get Out Of Jail Free” pass courtesy of that old Nazi, George Soros, and his Flying Monkey Brigade of hand-picked leftist prosecutors.
So while Flynn’s message and approach were wrong from a legal standpoint, his sentiments in sounding the bell of alarm about America’s future clearly are not wrong. And at it’s core, isn’t that what an oath to support, defend, and defend the Constitution is all about. Patriotism in the heart doesn’t always translate well out of the mouth but a man’s deeds have always spoken louder – at least in a sane society they have.
If Qanon has theme music this would be the place to kick it in.
“support, defend and protect”
So what part of those three words don’t you understand?
“The difference between treason and patriotism is only a matter of dates.”
― Alexandre Dumas
Likely above your comprehension Fishy, but not everyone’s.
What part of those 3 words do you understand? The archives hold your contributions on this blog and you have demonstrated zero fidelity to our constitution and this country. You need to go back to whatever wet market you jumped out of.
So you both think that Flynn supports, defends and protects the constitution with pleading guilty to working with Russians agents and lying to the FBI?
Fishy:
Okay let’s rehash the outright coercion by the DOJ threatening his son during the plea and then the Depatment’s separate dropping of charges for unethical behavior! You Lefties have such truncated minds.
That you refer to Soros as a Nazi tells me that you’re even more biased and disconnected from reality than I’d realized.
Aninny:
“That you refer to Soros as a Nazi tells me that you’re even more biased and disconnected from reality than I’d realized.”
**********************************************
And it tells me you have no idea what you’re talking about there at “Correct The Record”:
Extended quotation from the 60 Minutes transcript follows:
“When the Nazis occupied Budapest in 1944, George Soros’
father was a successful lawyer. He lived on an island in the
Danube and liked to commute to work in a rowboat. But knowing
there were problems ahead for the Jews, he decided to split
his family up. He bought them forged papers and he bribed a
government official to take 14-year-old George Soros in and
swear that he was his Christian godson. But survival carried
a heavy price tag. While hundreds of thousands of Hungarian
Jews were being shipped off to the death camps, George Soros
accompanied his phony godfather on his appointed rounds,
confiscating property from the Jews.
(Vintage footage of Jews walking in line; man dragging
little boy in line)
KROFT: (Voiceover) These are pictures from 1944 of what
happened to George Soros’ friends and neighbors.
(Vintage footage of women and men with bags over their
shoulders walking; crowd by a train)
KROFT: (Voiceover) You’re a Hungarian Jew . . .
Mr. SOROS: (Voiceover) Mm-hmm.
KROFT: (Voiceover) . . . who escaped the Holocaust . . .
(Vintage footage of women walking by train)
Mr. SOROS: (Voiceover) Mm-hmm.
(Vintage footage of people getting on train)
KROFT: (Voiceover) . . . by–by posing as a Christian.
Mr. SOROS: (Voiceover) Right.
(Vintage footage of women helping each other get on train;
train door closing with people in boxcar)
KROFT: (Voiceover) And you watched lots of people get
shipped off to the death camps.
Mr. SOROS: Right. I was 14 years old. And I would say that
that’s when my character was made.
KROFT: In what way?
Mr. SOROS: That one should think ahead. One should
understand and–and anticipate events and when–when one is
threatened. It was a tremendous threat of evil. I mean, it
was a–a very personal experience of evil.
KROFT: My understanding is that you went out with this
protector of yours who swore that you were his adopted
godson.
Mr. SOROS: Yes. Yes.
KROFT: Went out, in fact, and helped in the confiscation of
property from the Jews.
Mr. SOROS: Yes. That’s right. Yes.
KROFT: I mean, that’s–that sounds like an experience that
would send lots of people to the psychiatric couch for many,
many years. Was it difficult?
Mr. SOROS: Not–not at all. Not at all. Maybe as a child
you don’t–you don’t see the connection. But it was–it
created no–no problem at all.
KROFT: No feeling of guilt?
Mr. SOROS: No.
KROFT: For example that, “I’m Jewish and here I am,
watching these people go. I could just as easily be there. I
should be there.” None of that?
Mr. SOROS: Well, of course I c–I could be on the other
side or I could be the one from whom the thing is being taken
away. But there was no sense that I shouldn’t be there,
because that was–well, actually, in a funny way, it’s just
like in markets–that if I weren’t there–of course, I wasn’t
doing it, but somebody else would–would–would be taking it
away anyhow. And it was the–whether I was there or not, I
was only a spectator, the property was being taken away. So
the–I had no role in taking away that property. So I had
no sense of guilt.” (“George Soros,” 60 Minutes
interview transcript, December 20, 1998).
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CREC-2006-09-29/html/CREC-2006-09-29-pt1-PgE1917.htm
mespo, you aren’t even adult enough to have an exchange with someone you dislike without calling the person a childish name.
I’m well aware of of the 60 Minutes interview, and if you think that that makes Soros a Nazi, you simply do not understand what you’re talking about.
Historically, a Nazi is someone who was a member of the Nazi Party.
Was Soros in the Nazi Party? No. End of debate.
“mespo, you aren’t even adult enough to have an exchange with someone you dislike without calling the person a childish name.”
*********************************
In Hungary with a Nazi guiding him, he took property from innocent Jews who were being hauled off to death camps while being a Jew himself and yet feels no remorse – even now. That is the very definition of a bigoted Nazi or Hitler Youth or whatever fascist label you prefer. Oh and I had no idea I was talking to Soros. I thought it was in reply to JT (whose words I cited). Oh and why are you so very worried about Soros’ “honor”? Not a big fan of Jews, maybe?
I am a Jew, which is one of the reasons I object to your calling Soros a Nazi when he isn’t one and never was one.
His actions did not contribute to anyone being sent to the concentration camps, and you seem to be lying when you assert that “he took property from innocent Jews …”
According to your transcript, he didn’t take anyone’s property. He “was only a spectator [as] the property was being taken away.”
He accompanied his protector Baumbach once — Baumbach, a Hungarian who also wasn’t a Nazi — when that man confiscated property belonging to Jews who’d been deported. Just what was a 14 y.o. reliant on his protector supposed to do? Refuse? Make it public that he himself was Jewish and get deported as well?
Really, what are you saying he should have done as a 14 y.o.?
“feels no remorse”
Why should he feel remorse? What did Soros himself do that was wrong?
“Really, what are you saying he should have done as a 14 y.o.?”
Joined the anti-Nazi “Edelweiss Pirates,” or any other number of anti-Hitler youth movements. Anything — sit in a corner and suck his thumb — is better than collaborating with genocidal maniacs.
“I am a Jew, which is one of the reasons I object to your calling Soros a Nazi when he isn’t one and never was one.”
Anonymous the Stupid, Soros collaborated with the Nazis and helped steal from the Jews destined to be killed if they didn’t disappear. He expressed no sorrow over that part of his life. He was not simply a spectator.
You ask, “Why should he feel remorse?”
That is the answer to the question as to whether or not you are unhinged. I don’t know if unhinged is the proper word, but your thoughts are dark and lead one to recognize that all your emotions and thinking processes are not in their proper place.
I want to add that being a Jew doesn’t guarantee that your heart is in the right place or that you have any regard for Jewish history, Israel, or the Jewish people. So far, you have demonstrated the opposite.
Tell me something: what was Soros to do as a 14 year old? Disobey? Turn in his father for lying about him being Christian? Are you actually trying to put blame on Soros because he didn’t understand the full import of what was going on or feel guilt about obeying when he was 14? How about those Jews who led other Jews directly to the gas chambers? Are they responsible for the deaths of those who got gassed? How about those who loaded the corpses of their fellow Jews into the ovens. Are they guilty for desecrating human remains? They were at least adults, so, according to your logic, they are war criminals–right? According to the Geneva Convention, those of the German military who were not in leadership positions, just regular soldiers, are not considered culpable for the Holocaust and were not tried as war criminals. Those who were in leadership positions WERE tried for their crimes. Those who were coerced into doing things under order, enforced by threat of death were not held culpable. On this note, how about the US turning away a ship load of Jews from Germany, forcing them to return, where they were put into Auschwicz? Is the US responsible for those who died?
Mr. Turley,
While I understand your comment concerning ”faith in the Constitution”, and was moved to tears by your impassioned testimony in the House during the impeachment trial talking about how rage has taken over the political process, testimony that brought you to the verge of tears while delivering those remarks, I have to point out that large segments of our citizenry have absolutely lost faith in our Constitution because of the treatment of people like Michael Flynn.
The United States cannot long endure under such heavy-handed, political malfeasance that produces specious prosecutions, that you describe here in great detail, in order to hide their own misdeeds (Flynn), or the Nation’s top law enforcement body falsifying evidence in order to secure a FISA court warrant to spy on a political foe (Clinesmith), or when political rage brings about vacuous impeachment shams that serve nothing more than the attempt to negate a national election by power hungry miscreants, while our elected representatives lie into our faces about having “proof” (Schiff).
We are a Nation of laws. When those laws are disregarded, or worse, flagrantly misapplied, we erode the entire idea of what makes us a Nation. Faith in our Constitution is built on the idea that our laws will be faithfully upheld, and we currently have an administration that won’t even uphold our sovereignty as a Nation by enforcing our immigration laws, while they enforce, at my last count, 80 executive orders, many of which do not have congressional law as a basis.
This all has a price, and that price is a loss of that very “faith in the Constitution” that you so passionately described. We are watching a political party destroy the entire idea of the “united” in United States,
and there will be a price to pay for that.
I hold you in the highest regard. Thank you for your service to this Nation.
Larry Kuechlin
Good analysis, Larry.
Larry,
I agree with much of what you say. However, I think a distinction must be made between “large segments of our citizenry have absolutely lost faith in our Constitution” and trust in our elected officials to uphold it faithfully. I do not see anything wrong with the Constitution. I see a great deal wrong with the people who have violated their oaths of office through malicious dealings and trampling of the spirit if not the written rules of the Constitution. My loss of faith and trust is in far too many of these so-called representatives.
Larry says: “Faith in our Constitution is built on the idea that our laws will be faithfully upheld….”
Not to worry Larry. Your faith in our Constitution will be restored when our laws are faithfully upheld when Trump is criminally prosecuted- demonstrating that NO ONE is above the law. Unlike the “snap impeachment” in which Turley complained that there was insufficient evidence, that will not be an objection in this prosecution. Indeed, as we speak, the DA is collecting evidence in the Grand Jury.
I hope you will trust Turley’s judgment that Trump’s trial was fair and not be beguiled by Trump’s claim that it was a “witch-hunt.” Remember that Turley supported Trump’s impeachment in principle, and only criticized its execution by the House. Had Trump’s Impeachment not been rushed, Turley would have had no complaint with it.
The top 10% own 70% of America’s wealth…that leaves 90% fighting for the other 30%…ripe conditions for a revolt/coup…Thomas Jefferson said… I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical…the one thing history teaches us is… this one very basic principle…when the poor get sick and tired of having their wealth stolen, then they have nothing to lose by fighting to take it back…33,000 are very rich…297,000 are poor and work for the rich…all politicians are in the top 10%…read Yeonmi Park’s book…In Order To Live…she escaped North Korea…feels her Columbia U education was a joke…total waste of time and money…brainwashing by the far radical left…and will never send her son to any University unless things change and it will only get worse in my opinion…the current holocaust is in N. Korea and we do NOTHING!…we stopped Hitler…why do we ignore the cries for help from NK?…Chairman Mao killed 45 million in 4 years in China…much worse then Hitler and still a communist country and we do NOTHING!…and all JT says is his worry about rage…sometimes rage is good…and finally LSU selected William Tate IV as their new President beating out 8 others…he wasn’t even on their list…guess what he is famous for?…Critical Race Theory of course…and this is deep south LSU…every person who teaches there or goes to school there, who is not black, is a racist and, you watch, will have to acknowledge that fact both verbally and in writing and forced to take the class that I am a RACIST!…what a country!!!
Burma.
It got named Myanmar following a coup d’tat. I’d rather stick with the name selected while it still had some semblance of democracy.
My impression is that Burma is the name given by the British during colonial rule. Am I wrong about that? If it’s a colonial name, I don’t know that it’s any better.
I am not completely sure. It is my (albeit not thorough) understanding that it was chosen as the independent government was set up after the British relinquished control.
If it was suggested by the British, I’d still hazard that is a bit better than one dictated by a military coup. I’d guess that the former was still voted upon. Though, as I know very little of their history, I could be mistaken.
It’s the name that was introduced by the British during colonial rule. I don’t think that it was an active choice to keep the name after they left, but I don’t know.
I am inclined to give Flynn, now a private citizen, the benefit of the doubt. The question was poorly framed and involved a double negative, and if you take out the “I mean” which is superfluous, Flynn says there is no reason for a coup. I would be more concerned if he was still an LTG or in a high govt position.
What he is doing at a Q-Anon event, if that characterization is correct (it is a charge thrown around rather loosely when the media want to discredit someone), is worth asking, though.
There is a long tradition in Britain of being skeptical of a large standing army. That is why traditionally the Navy, limited to the seas, reported to the Crown (the ROYAL Navy) whereas Parliament kept tighter control of the Army (the BRITISH Army) which could effectively engage in a rebellion or coup.
He’s not a “private citizen,” per se. He’s still subject to recall to active duty and disciplinary action under the UCMJ.
You are correct, all retirees remain subject the UCMJ…kind of weird, but valid nonetheless. However, DoD/Army has said they have no intention of prosecuting him. That is a good thing because that would further enrage about half of the country that thought he was singled out for a false prosecution. Notwithstanding, LTG Flynn, if he is sincere in his belief that he misspoke and the rhetoric was wrong, needs to offer a public apology. Nothing resonates with the public like a public flogging, humiliation followed by an apology. Second, he should disassociate himself with the Q’non group, whomever that envelopes.
Flynn is a QAnon supporter. That’s why he was there.
And the interpretation of what he said depends on where one places the period.
“I want to know why what happened in Myanmar can’t happen here?”
“No reason, I mean, it should happen here.
versus
“I want to know why what happened in Myanmar can’t happen here?”
“No reason. I mean, it should happen here.
To know which he said, you have to listen to him, as our spoken speech doesn’t identify the end of one sentence and beginning of the next.
Here’s the video –
https://twitter.com/MC_Hyperbole/status/1399129297240084489
Sounds to me like the second one, not the first.
but the incident is the latest example of our growing addiction to rage.
Those that desire to be outraged will attribute the worst possible interpretation of his comment. When later he was asked to confirm or deny that he was supporting the idea of a coup, he unequivocally denied he was supporting the idea. Given the torment Flynn and his family have suffered at the hands of other oath takers, I’d not be so quick to condemn his response without asking for clarity. But of course that won’t assuage the outrage mob. They need this story to have legs, because they need to draw attention away from the junta selling out this country.
Why was he at this event? Was it an unlawful assembly? Why do public figures go to BLM events? Why does a sitting vice president meet with Kazakhstani’s and then deny it? Why did a firm linked to Hunter Biden & Burisma Holdings pitch the Ukrainian prosecutor high level access to the Clinton campaign in 2016? So many questions, but hey, let’s find out what ice cream Biden likes today.
I can only hope he misspoke. He certainly should know better. Maybe he had a brain freeze and later realized his mistake. One can only hope.
He answered in the same way he did at the ’16 Republican convention when he said from the lecturn HRC should be “locked up”.
Flynn is not a good public speaker and this weakness leads him into agreeing verbally with the loudest voices in the audience, especially when they’re unhinged. He shares this trait in common with Trump when being interviewed actually…, witness Chris Mathews getting Trump to say he’d consider using nuclear weapons in Western Europe and that women need to be “punnished” for getting an abortion while there’d be no consequences for the father.
Both Flynn and Trump are compromised in oratorical skill and in their ability to weed through tough questions in an interview without softball questions. If Flynn spoke publicly more often than he does now, he’d make gaffes such as this and then exponentially make it worse when trying to walk it back.
eb
Google Trump’s interviews with Matthews, George Stephanopolous and Jonathan Swan of Axios. All three of those interviews are clinics in exposing the type of oratorical weakness that Trump shares with Flynn.
eb
and Trump are compromised in oratorical skill
Compromised oratorical skill? What would a man with great oratorical skill accomplish? Net worth in the $billions and get elected to the highest office in the United States…maybe?
Not sure what metric you use.
But no other President has had such a high party approval rating. Communicating a message that gains such a diverse approval would signify great oratorical skill.
Iowan2: “Communicating a message that gains such a diverse approval would signify great oratorical skill.”
Case in point- Adolf Hitler
“Our political differences have never become so great as to shake our common article of faith in our Constitution. Of course, it takes a leap of faith by every citizen to remain constitutionally loyal even when you have not prevailed politically.” says the Good Professor who I greatly admire and respect.
Professor do us a laundry list of all the things the Left has done in the pursuit of their radical Agenda….attacking free speech (you can show us dozens of examples taken from your own blog here), attacks on the Supreme Court as a body and on the individual Justices (again show us the long list of those you have discussed right here), you decry General Flynn’s abuse by the DOJ and FBI….again…right here at your own Blog, and when after many Years of torment, persecution, financial harm, and threats to imprison his family by the government…..all of which involved violations of Oaths by every SOB within Government that participated in those events…..you single General Flynn out for yet more abuse by you.
Where is the anger you feel towards Flynn when it comes to your fellow members of the Bar, those who are in the FBI and DOJ, and so many others that deserve far more condemnation for their evil ACTIONS…not words alone…..CORRUPT ACTIONS that deprived this Good Man of his Rights, Honor, and Property.
Who has the most guilt here….the Victim or the Perpetrator?
I suggest if it was you walking in General Flynn’s boots you would not be so quick to say what you have here today.
Was he wrong….sure he was….that is not what any American should say….but that applies only to a “Just Society” which we most assuredly do not have and of all people….General Flynn has been wronged terribly and deserves Justice and compensation….which start with all of us granting him our sympathies and support. Perhaps, if we did that…all of us….including you…..he might feel some vindication instead of yet more condemnation.
The Founders reminded us that tyranny must not be tolerated and we all have a duty to reject it….isn’t that what the General was actually saying as he has seen first hand what tyranny really is….an abusive government that does not honor the Constitution.
Ridiculous. Flynn is a traitor.
Hahahaha
Justice Holmes – And it’s curious that JT isn’t outraged, but rather tried to soften Flynn’s sentiments. If enough of these dictatorship supporters actually do try a coup, let us pray that a General Smedley Butler
will return from the grave and sound the alarm like he did when a coup (supported by the Bush family) was planned to rid the nation of Roosevelt for the crime of acting in the interest of ALL Americans.
Agreed, Turley. There’s a reason Obama warned Trump about Flynn before Trump took office. And there’s a reason Sally Yates was sending up the warnings in the first days of the Trump administration about Flynn’s being compromised and blackmail-able due to being a foreign agent. The fact Trump didn’t listen and named him *National Security Advisor* in the face of those warnings speaks to what happens when a president is willing to latch on to that age of rage for personal gain at the cost of the nation. To Trump it was a game. To everyone else in Washington who saw this coming a long time ago with Flynn in particular, but in effect with everything, this is gut wrenching.
eb
JT,
I am with you on so many issues, but on this one I think the ret. Gen. made a convoluted, but simple, statement that was *not* an endorsement of a military coup.
HIs answer was essentially, “[There’s] [n]o reason . . .it should happen here. No reason. That’s right.”
He was correct. There is NO reason a Myanmar type coup should happen here. For obvious reasons.
HIs answer was jumbled, but I see no danger in the answer you quote.
Colonel,
You should prepare yourself to be let down by Turley in the future. Turley does not subscribe to Trumpism nor QAnon. In the past, he has called out Trump’s lies. In the coming days, Turley inevitably will defend the judicial process against accusations of “witch-hunt” by Trump and his followers. Reading the comments on this blog, there is a definite sense of betrayal felt by many for Turley’s condemnation of Flynn’s statement. Turley has pushed back against the Democrats’ rush to judgement of the criminal culpability of Trump, Giuliani, etc. But the day of judgement is nigh. Soon there may be criminal prosecutions, and passions on both sides will be heightened. Turley will analyze the merits of these cases, but make no mistake, his fidelity is to the law; he will respect the outcome of these adjudications come what may. He will push back against the Trumpist cries of “witch-hunt” and “rail-roaded” in defending the decision of the juries and judges. And all the goodwill which he has so far established with many on this blog will be irretrievably lost.
Thanks for your service.
“Michael Flynn was his name…
He rode off with Robert E. Lee!
Etc
Anyone remember the book Seven Days in May? While I have sympathy for the many ills afforded to Mr. Flynn in the past, he has apparently crossed the Rubicon. Not the first to do so – Edwin Walker comes to mind
Not an excuse, but Flynn seems to be a man driven to rage by wrongs not remedied.
Flynn is a man falsely accused of colluding with the Russians. (The irony is that he appears to have been a Turkish tool, but was never attacked for that role.)
Flynn’s career was ruined and his finances devastated (in his 60’s). Both the DOJ, the FBI, and Judge Sullivan went to incredible lengths to “nail” him. The press jumped on the bandwagon and helped create a false public image.
Flynn got off through the brilliance of Sidney Powell, but he never felt that he got justice.
Now he hovers on the fringes, angry and powerless.
A cautionary tale of Washington.
He’s an AH.
A
Being an AH is a personality trait not an indictable offense.
Fortunately for many posters on this blog.
so now I am not only a racist but an As&Ho*e too…well than you very little