We have been discussing the controversy over a ten-year-old girl who was raped in Ohio and removed to Indiana because the Ohio abortion law would not allegedly allow for the termination of her pregnancy. I wrote a couple columns on the glaring legal and factual questions in the case following a Washington Post investigation and an inquiry by the Ohio Attorney General that could not confirm any facts beyond an account of an Indiana doctor. The Columbus Dispatch reports that a man, Gerson Fuentes, has now been arrested in the case. He could face life imprisonment. I wanted to share that development and respond to those who wrongly claim that I called the allegation a “lie.”
Fuentes is going to be arraigned on Wednesday and is being held in a county jail on a $2 million bond.
After the arrest, I was contacted by readers who noted that the New York Post column originally referred to a possible “lie” and felt that I was calling this a hoax. That was certainly not my intention and my express words contradict that interpretation. What I have seen on the Internet notably omits my statements to the contrary in both the columns and on Twitter at the time of publication.
As I noted, I have two columns on the matter. Both stated that the case could be real, but that there were glaring legal and factual questions raised by Dr. Bernard’s account. The column looked at those questions in light of the Washington Post noting that “the only source cited for the anecdote was Bernard. She’s on the record, but there is no indication that the newspaper made other attempts to confirm her account.” I agreed with the Post that such a story should be confirmed beyond such an “anecdote.”
It also looked at these questions in light of the Ohio Attorney General saying that a search did not find such a case in their system. We have seen the media run with a number of stories without confirmation of key facts in major stories. The two columns isolated the facts that I considered to be the most important to confirm while recognizing that the story could be true even with these questions. Most of the columns addressed the ongoing risks to the child and the need for confirmation of the case and the welfare of the child.
The column expressly stated “None of this means that this did not occur. However, if it is true, there is a child rapist who is still at large. Alternatively, if this was a family member, a child may be living in the same house as her rapist.”
The thrust of the column was to discuss the legal and factual questions assuming that the case is true. Dr. Bernard’s explanation for the removal of the child from Ohio was not consistent with Ohio law. I also noted that the Washington Post sought additional details on the case but was unable to get any additional confirmation. The columns primarily addressed these unanswered legal questions on the meaning of the Ohio law and the need for a police report, particularly after the Ohio Attorney General said that he could find no such report. I said that both the Post and AG inquiries were curious because police reports are required in both states. While I said a police report may have been filed, there should be confirmation of that fact in the best interests of the child.
On the New York Post column, there was initially a headline referring to a “lie.” Authors do not write the headlines. The column was a shorter, edited version of the original column that I wrote. The mistake may have been due to an errant line inserted in editing that referred to a possible lie. I did not write that line and asked that it be removed, which it was before publication. When I saw that headline, I immediately tweeted at the time of publication that these questions do not mean that the case was not real. I also noted on Twitter at the time of publication that we do not write the headlines to convey my disagreement:
“The headline aside (which is not written by an author), everything that Dr. Bernard said could well be true. However, even if true, these missing details are critical to understanding why this action was taken and whether the child is safe.”
I also wrote to my editor to ask that the headline referring to the “lie” be changed, which they did so. The editors were immediately responsive to these requests and my concern that we should not make any such assumptions in light of the lack of confirming facts.
Both columns discuss the lack of effort to confirm the police report and the clear danger to this child if she was not afforded such protection. That was strikingly absent in coverage and I believed that these facts should have been confirmed, as the Post and the Attorney General had sought unsuccessfully to do.
Putting aside the ongoing question over the legal basis for the removal of the child, the column repeatedly called for a police report and the confirmation that the child was safe. It seemed to me that that should have been a priority in the coverage over the prior week
I still remain interested in understanding why, as claimed, the child had to be removed from Ohio. As I noted on the blog column, this may be due to confusion but the law seems clear to me.
As a legal analyst, I am often asked to address such controversies and, like the Washington Post, seek to confirm the underlying facts. This story was curious in that it was based entirely on one person’s account, which contained what I viewed incorrect statements about the underlying law. I cannot account for how these columns will be portrayed or interpreted, but that is the background to the columns.
Chris Geidner:
“Ohio AG Yost said on Monday that the 10-year-old rape victim who needed an abortion “did not have to leave Ohio to find treatment.” Not so, says Ohio’s nonpartisan Legislative Service Commission.”
discussion: https://chrisgeidner.substack.com/p/jeff-crossman-wants-to-protect-abortion
The Ohio law would not have barred a 10 year old from having an abortion, because it is life threatening for a 9 or 10 year old to carry a pregnancy to term. Pregnancy and delivery can lead to complications including fistulas, which are common in countries where child brides are the norm. A body that young is often not physically able to carry a pregnancy to term. The sexual assault itself can cause serious physical damage to a child, let alone psychological trauma. There is a body of medical knowledge about the outcomes. All that said, if there has been a delay, such as if a child was too afraid to tell, to such a degree that the fetus is viable, after 24 weeks, then the poor child mother is not going to be spared labor and delivery or C-section, no matter what. A third trimester abortion requires labor and delivery or C-Section. After 24 weeks, the child should be delivered alive, if possible.
The Governor of OH said publicly she did not have to leave.
The doctor is under investigation for failure to report the rape of a minor, and for possibly violating HIPPA laws in discussing her case with a newspaper. It is a valid concern that the doctor, and those all up the chain of this story, treated the rape and impregnation of a young child as a political tool, rather than a sexual assault that required prompt attention from law enforcement.
The alleged rapist is an illegal alien. Not much has been able to convince Democrats to deport illegal aliens. They have created sanctuary cities that welcome rapists and murderers, protecting the most violent offenders from deportation. Will repeatedly raping and impregnating a 10 year old convince them to deport an illegal alien?
It was perfectly valid to question a story that lacked the legally required paper trail. If journalists did their due diligence more often, we’d have less misinformation and false allegations. It was in questioning this story that it came out the doctor failed to report the sexual assault to law enforcement. That alleged failure had allowed a pedophile rapist to remain on the street until the truth came out.
There are those who seek to find every possible worst case scenario as an excuse for abortion on demand, no questions ask. Rather, these worst case scenarios are important to guide us in self governance. It is our responsibility to elect legislators in our republic who will represent our best interests in ALL topics. Are we better off if we have abortion on demand, where women can abort a perfectly healthy 9 month old fetus after she goes into labor, if we have $10 gas, can’t afford to buy food, and crime is rampant? We can craft abortion laws that reflect the will of the people, taking into account tragedies like child rape.
The American people need to take up the yoke of being responsible voters. We need to stop being sheep, getting herded where politicians want us with false allegations like treating ectopic pregnancies being outlawed. We need to think and reason our way into a fair and just society.
Girls are going through puberty younger and younger. Public schools have turned sex education from an 8th grade biology class, into a how-to manual on every possible sex act. Children are being exposed to sexuality in public schools younger and younger. The sexualization of children is a problem beyond the crime of sexual assault. Children are becoming sexually active younger, and they’re doing drugs younger. As it veers further Left, society has stopped protecting the innocence of children. Childhood pregnancy is a problem that needs to be included in discussions about abortion.
My heart goes out to this poor girl, who’s been a victim many times over. Repeatedly assaulted, pregnant at far too young an age, having to tell people what happened, and now faced with abortion of her own baby. That kind of trauma will would her deeply. I hope she’s found a soft place to land with people who will love and protect her.
And may that child rapist rot in prison, housed with protective fathers.
You speak of no specifics as to how this particular individual was in danger. Anyone under 20 is at greater risk for death.
Karen S: when are you going to stop pretending that you have any medical expertise to opine on medical matters? You don’t, so please stop. Doctors in Ohio believed they couldn’t perform the abortion based on the language of Ohio’s law.
Here’s the skinny: Theodore Rokita, Indiana’s publicity-seeking AG, appeared on Jesse Waters’ program, which is where you got your information about Dr. Bernard “being investigated” for allegedly failing to report the rape. The rape happened in Ohio, and the child’s mother had already reported it BEFORE she was brought to Indiana for the abortion. So, there was no delay in reporting to law enforcement, something Rokita probably knew, or could have known with a single telephone call. There was no rapist running loose on the streets. And, bottom line, neither you, Fox, nor Rokita has any idea whether Dr. Bernard also reported the crime or whether she was required to report it after it had already been reported. The reasons for going after Dr. Bernard are purely political:
1. BECAUSE FOX WAS PROVEN, ONCE AGAIN, TO HAVE LIED when it claimed that the story, coming after the illegitimately-appointed SCOTUS majority took away womens’ Constitutional right to choose, was “too good to be true”. There was no valid reason to “question” the truth of this story that came from a respected OB-GYN physician, other than political. Reason #2″ Rokita, always looking for free publicity, and in order to pander to the “unborn baby saving” Evangelicals, was sending a message intended to intimidate doctors who legally perform abortions; he could give a crap less about this poor child, her suffering or arresting the perpetrator, over whom he knows he has no jurisdiction, since the incident and the alleged perpetrator are in Ohio. He’s going to look for a reason to try to prosecute abortion providers, even if he has to make one up. Reason #3: Fox is the one who “politicized” this incident. Instead of apologizing to the disciples and admitting they were wrong when they reported the story as false, Dr. Bernard just HAS to be wrong somehow. She didn’t release any personal identifying information about her patient, so no HIPPA laws were broken, something Rokita knows. The incident had already been reported to law enforcement before the child was brought to Indiana. You are so dense that you don’t even see this for what it is, and have bought the Fox line about this doctor being in the wrong somehow. You believe whatever Fox tells you, so it is highly ironic that you think other people are gullible “sheep”. That perfectly describes you.
I”ve seen nothing about the alleged perpetrator being here illegally, but Fox never lets an opportunity to attack Democrats pass by. No Democrat has ever said anything against deporting illegals who commit crimes. Democrats do NOT have “sanctuary cities” for illegals who commit murder or other crimes.
You want to talk about the “will of the people”? MOST Americans did NOT want Roe overturned. And, please, stop repeating the lie that full-term healthy babies are being killed. That’s just not true. And you also fell for the line that these “personhood upon fertilization” laws don’t outlaw ectopic pregnancy. That’s just not true. The overbroad wording of such laws do not expressly say that removing an ectopic pregnancy is protected. In some states, a doctor can get charged with murder for terminating an ectopic pregnancy. The claim that it was ectopic is just an “affirmative defense”–not a bar to prosecution. Some states have proposed requiring an attempt to reimplant a tubal fetus, which is medically impossible. And, as Theodore Rokita has proven, these radical right wing politicians will do everything in their power to intimidate doctors who perform abortions.
One of the biggest issues that few people discuss is the fact that in those states with “zygote personhood laws” passed by extreme right-wingers, there is no means by which to train future physicians how to treat either an ectopic pregnancy, a missed miscarriage or other life-threatening pregnancy conditions that require removal of the fetus. Women are going to die because their doctors don’t know how to treat them.
Why would you want to deport this rapist? Don’t you realize that it’s just turning him loose to re-enter the country and re-offend?
The level of stupidity is simply mindblowing. He belongs in a US prison.
Why should Biden be permitting him to reenter the country illegally?
(I have no objection to him serving a life sentence in the US.)
“it is life threatening for a 9 or 10 year old to carry a pregnancy to term.”
Sometimes. Other times it isn’t.
Moreover, the law in OH doesn’t say “if there’s a significant risk that it will become life-threatening in 6 months, you can have an abortion now.” The pregnant person actually has to wait until there’s a threat to their life or a threat of permanent serious health effects.
“The Governor of OH said publicly she did not have to leave.”
And nothing keeps him from lying. The issue isn’t what he claimed, but what the OH law actually says. Are you going to demand that abortion providers in OH pay lawyers to assess whether the abortion is legal each time, or do you think that they’ll interpret the law themselves and perhaps say “this is ambiguous, and I don’t want to take the chance that I’ll be prosecuted”?
“The doctor is under investigation for failure to report the rape of a minor, and for possibly violating HIPPA laws in discussing her case with a newspaper.”
The rape had ALREADY been reported to law enforcement, and HIPAA (not HIPPA) only prevents very specific identifying information to be discussed, such as the patient’s name and birth date. The doctor did not disclose any HIPAA-regulated information.
“It is a valid concern that the doctor, and those all up the chain of this story, treated the rape and impregnation of a young child as a political tool, rather than a sexual assault that required prompt attention from law enforcement.”
A false dichotomy on your end. Again: the rape had ALREADY been reported to the police, and abortion is regulated by law, and the law is political. It is absolutely appropriate for all of us to be discussing the impact of the various state abortion laws, and doctors not only have 1st Amendment rights to join the discussion (as long as they don’t share HIPAA-regulated info), but it’s really essential for an informed societal discussion that doctors share the effects on patients of various state laws.
“We can craft abortion laws that reflect the will of the people, taking into account tragedies like child rape.”
Yet every single time I’ve asked you what you believe the law should be, you’ve refused to say. We cannot do what you say when people are too cowardly to say what they think the law should be and why. I’ve already told you more than once what I think it should be and why.
“I hope she’s found a soft place to land with people who will love and protect her.”
Glad we can agree about something.
The performance of human rites a.k.a. elective abortion a.k.a. planned parenthood a.k.a. wicked solution are imperative for a sustainable cover-up of collateral damage from social progress and immigration reform.
There was an initial story put out that the Ohio doctor informed the Indiana doctor that she had a patient who was 6 weeks and 3 days pregnant. This led to some speculation that the Ohio doctor was confused about the law and thought there was a ban at the 6 week mark as opposed to the heartbeat requirement.
According to Snopes, that isn’t quite what happened. Rather the Indiana doctor was contacted 3 days after the Court decision overturning Roe and told by the Ohio doctor she had a patient 6 weeks into her pregnancy and could not have the abortion in Ohio. By that, I don’t think the doctor meant 6 weeks exactly, but somewhere in that vicinity. And it could very well be the doctor made that determination based on examination of the girl including the use of an ultrasound. Lest you think there was some grand scheme to time this examination so they would have to cart the girl off to Indiana, the Indiana doctor began receiving many calls from neighboring states. This wasn’t the only one. If you happened to have your examination during this time period, that’s just the way it goes.
https://www.snopes.com/news/2022/07/05/abortion-10-year-old-rape-victim-ohio/
Six weeks to a heartbeat and nervous system function, where baby meets granny, in state, if not in process.
The doctor received many calls about other girls impregnated through rape or incest? Was there a conspiracy to a cover-up of a handmade tale?
Without discussion this particular article, Snopes is a rag that spins, so it can’t be trusted where politics is involved.
Agreed. But I think here it’s a pretty good bet. You can’t tell if someone is 6 weeks and 3 days pregnant to my knowledge. So I don’t think that’s what was said.
It may not have been what was said. There is no way for us to know what the child-abuse doctor in OH said to the abortion doctor in IN.
But a lot of people commenting here seem not to know that gestational age is generally measured from the first day of the girl’s/woman’s last menstrual period, not from the date of fertilization, so the gestational age can indeed be determined down to the day.
Well down to a few days. Not a specific day. I noted what Snopes said and that I tend to think the snope’s version was more likely. I, like Turley, approached the facts cautiously. Unlike Turley, I am therefore not clear on how someone can state that the child did not need to go to Indiana.
Again: many women can tell you exactly what day their last period started, and that’s what the gestational age is measured from.
If the last period started on 6/3, and today is 7/14, you can calculate the exact # of weeks and days. It’s not hard math.
Okay, fair enough by that measurement. I think it would be an odd phrase for a doctor to say to another doctor — that someone is so many weeks and a specific day pregnant. She could have easily meant 6 weeks pregnant give or take based on ultrasound. And may have detected a heartbeat. As you say, we don’t know.
Sometimes a lawyer will note the reasonable hypotheticals, and note the law yields the same outcome in all of them. And Turley seems to have implied that. The law “seems clear to me” regardless of all of the hypothetical facts is what I took him to mean.
SteveJ:
The rapist was an illegal alien who had sexually assaulted the poor girl multiple times.
The doctor failed to report the sexual assault and pregnancy to law enforcement. She was a mandatory reporter. The doctor may have violated HIPPA laws by instead reporting the incident to the newspaper, when she should have been cooperating with law enforcement to get a pedophile off the street.
Children are entering puberty at younger and younger ages. Child pregnancy in girls under 12 is tragically possible. It’s another dark side to pedophilia. A pregnancy in a child under the age of 12 can be considered life threatening. The rapist had two victims – the little girl, and her baby.
Legislators should discuss every worst case scenario, including this, in crafting abortion laws. These worst case scenarios are not an excuse for abortion on demand up until the fetus draws air. One of the advantages of legislating abortion laws is that they can be updated, and responsive to the will of the people. The governor has said publicly that the little girl did not need to leave OH. It is most unfortunate and indefensible for the doctor to allegedly not have reported this crime.
“Legislators should discuss every worst case scenario, including this, in crafting abortion laws.”
Well perhaps if you had been one of the committee staff members, they might have done that. Writing legislation, particularly where criminalization is concerned, is very dangerous.
The Governor of Ohio is a politician who will say what is politically expedient for him.
As for the rest of it, you’re not me off the topic I wrote about.
I never saw any story claiiming the perpetrator was illegal. She told police that he had intercourse with her TWO times. You don’t know whether Dr. Bernard reported the incident–Rokita said he was “investigating”, so Karen S. jumps to “didn’t report”. It was reported by the child’s mother BEFORE she was brought to Indiana. The Doctor did NOT violate HIPPA laws–she released NO personal identifying information. Medical articles discuss cases all of the time by providing age and other demographics about a patient and then the medical details, course of treatment and outcome, and in such matters, no privacy rights are violated. But, Dr. Bernard just HAS to be wrong somehow because Karen S. watched Jesse Waters’ program last night, and that was the theme. Dupes like you fall for this crap. Who said Dr. Bernard didn’t “cooperate with law enforcement to get a pedophile off the street”? The incident happened in Ohio, was reported in Ohio, and the alleged perpetrator lived in Ohio. Indiana had no jurisdiction.
There is no widespread “abortion on demand up until the fetus draws air”. That’s a lie you repeat all of the time. The Ohio governor is just plain wrong: this case makes Ohio look like the ignoramus backwater it is (as if Jim Jordan wasn’t proof enough), and that’s why he claimed Ohio law didn’t ban her abortion.
It is “most unfortunate and indefensible” for Fox to lie to its disciples like you and try to find a way to blame a courageous physician like Dr. Bernard instead of admitting that it lied when it said the story about her pregnancy was “too good to be true”. The will of the American people is that Roe should not have been overturned, and if it hadn’t, this story would never have seen the light of day. Todd Rokita and Jesse Waters used this story for political reasons, and that is reprehensible.
That’s YOUR problem. The guy is an illegal, and it looks like the mother may be too, which may be why she is protecting him and calling the claims all lies (in Spanish, of course) Maybe turn off CNN…you may learn some truths!!
Now Politico is reporting that “Indiana’s Republican attorney general said on Wednesday that his office planned to investigate the Indiana doctor who helped a 10-year-old rape victim who crossed state lines to have an abortion. … “We’re gathering the evidence as we speak, and we’re going to fight this to the end, including looking at her licensure if she failed to report. And in Indiana it’s a crime … to intentionally not report,” state Attorney General Todd Rokita said on Fox News on Wednesday night. “This is a child, and there’s a strong public interest in understanding if someone under the age of 16 or under the age of 18 or really any woman is having abortion in our state. And then if a child is being sexually abused, of course parents need to know. Authorities need to know. Public policy experts need to know.” ”
https://politico.com/news/2022/07/13/indiana-doctor-10-year-old-rape-victim-00045764
“The child’s mother reported the girl’s pregnancy to Franklin County Children Services on June 22, which informed Columbus police, Detective Jeffrey Huhn said Wednesday at Fuentes’ arraignment.” — https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2022/07/13/man-arrested-rape-ohio-girl-pregnant-indiana-abortion/10049383002/
The mother knew about the pregnancy and rape, and presumably accompanied her daughter to Indiana for the abortion (which cannot be performed on a 10 y.o. without a parent, guardian or court order).
Does Indiana law really require doctors to report rapes in another state, especially when it’s already been reported in the state where it occurred?
The doctor in IN provided a legal abortion in IN, and she did not release HIPAA-protected information when she made a public statement about it. JFC.
Excellent. Go after the physician’s license. Americans deserve a physician who will make medical decisions based on medical evidence and in the best interest of their patients. Using patients for political points is disgusting
According to you, what law did the doctor break?
Are you suggesting that doctors cannot discuss the actual impact of laws and court rulings on their patients? Because as long as the doctors obey relevant laws (e.g., HIPAA), you couldn’t possibly be suggesting that doctors lose their First Amendment rights, correct?
You are not too smart. Physicians discuss the impact of laws continuusly, and I think that is well recognized. They are, however, supposed to maintain confidentiality of specific patients.
HIPPA rules have gone too far, but on the other side, I note that too many doctors and lawyers are loose in discussion breaking confidentiality.
You replied to the other anonymous toset up your argument to fight, not to debate.
Again: what law did the doctor break?
RE:”Again: what law did the doctor break?…” That has yet to be determined, if any. Further speculation on the matter is time wasted.
I didn’t comment on a doctor breaking a law. Are you unable to follow a simple conversation? You are not very smart.
So, the issue is not elective abortion, but rather the late report or treatment of a criminal offense, specifically the rape… rape-rape of a 10 year-old girl by a suspect, an illegal alien, empowered by immigration reform.
The alleged perpetrator was in this country long before Biden became our President.
He came here under Obama and Biden was Vice President!
A little context is in order. This guy’s a former Member of Congress. He tried to run for Senate. He tried to run for Governor. He was Secretary of State for Indiana. Now he’s the A.G. You get the picture. He got on T.V.
Lots of word salad in the comments today so lets get right down to it. This abortion doctor who claims to have so much compassion for the women and children doesn’t report the rape of a ten year old to the authorities? Selling the principle of compassion to the people while padding her bank account. It seems that she was just too busy making the payments for her villa to file a police report. Did she care that the child might return to harms way and to do what she could to see that it didn’t happen again? Obviously not. Well I suppose one has to protect ones way of making a very lucrative living. Way to go Doc.
Why do you assume “This abortion doctor who claims to have so much compassion for the women and children doesn’t report the rape of a ten year old to the authorities?,” especially when you claim to have read “Lots of word salad in the comments today,” and there are comments from yesterday pointing out:
“The child’s mother reported the girl’s pregnancy to Franklin County Children Services on June 22, which informed Columbus police, Detective Jeffrey Huhn said Wednesday at Fuentes’ arraignment.”
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2022/07/13/man-arrested-rape-ohio-girl-pregnant-indiana-abortion/10049383002/
“It seems that she was just too busy making the payments for her villa to file a police report.”
It seems you like to jump to false conclusions because you’re too lazy to check whether your assumption is correct.
Turley has pulled off a high degree-of-difficultly achievement in needle-threading in his rationalization of his role in abetting the denial of the Ohio child rape story. Turley wouldn’t have had to engage in such contortions had he not used as a source the statement of the Ohio Attorney General on the Jesse Watters show. Turley stresses that he did not assume that Yost’s report was accurate and that this wasn’t his only source. As usual, Turley never misses a chance to deliberately miss the point. The Yost statement was already out here. So why should a law professor even conditionally cite a statement by the species of public official who would choose to report on such a volatile issue on a show conducted by one of the most clownishly demagogic and demagogically clownish bigots in the media? (Oh yes, Turley and Watters are Fox-paid colleagues.) What kind of law professor runs the risk of abetting any public official who is sufficiently wingnut to appear on the Watters show? Turley might remember that he retains the First Amendment right just to be quiet sometimes. Real-time 24/7 blogging of media noise and propaganda is not an institutional obligation of law professors. Forbearing from joining the noise until sober analysis is possible might b e a better job description.
.
And notice that in his hyper-subtle backtracking Turley cites as his source the Fox story that focuses on the fact that the rapist was in the US illegally. And perhaps we shouldn’t be surprised that now Watters claims credit for the proof the rape by virtue of his invitation to Yost to make the original denial?
https://www.newsweek.com/jesse-watters-ohio-girl-rape-abortion-hoax-1724503
Robert Weisberg,
Well said. While I do scroll through daily recordings of Carlson, Hannity and Ingraham principally to catch any time Turley debases himself by his appearing with the likes of them, I cannot make myself watch Watters. He was groomed under the tutelage of blowhard Bill O’Reilly. Turley’s legal reputation will never recover in the eyes of his liberal colleagues for his having sold-out to Fox News which is just a cut above Newsmax which itself is just a cut above Infowars.
Turley says:
“I agreed with the Post that such a story should be confirmed beyond such an “anecdote.”
If only Turley’s Fox News had followed that advice before parroting Trump’s Big Lie recklessly for which it is currently being sued for defamation. Bill Barr has been subpoenaed by one of the plaintiffs, but you would not know it since there is a total blackout by Turley on the developments of these lawsuits notwithstanding the huge implications to First Amendment jurisprudence, a subject near and dear to his heart.
To this very day, Turley has yet to concede that the election fraud conspiracies were made in bad faith. He continues to pretend, as you put it, “needle-threading in his rationalization,” that Trump and his lawyers had always acted in good faith in trying to present evidence of massive voter fraud but simply came up short when, in fact, they were were lies; there was never ANY truth to them. It was fraud ab initio.
I contend that Turley must take this position because he does not wish to undercut his employer’s legal defense that its producers and broadcasters had no reason to believe that Trump’s election claims were bogus. For Turley to admit now that those conspiracy theories were false leads to the inevitable questions: what did they know and when did they know it. Of course, any talk now of the election being stolen is strictly verboten on Fox! Turley does not acknowledge that fact either. In fact, Turley criticizes Fox for nothing such is his hypocrisy.
So sad that this child has become public fodder. But because of the publicity, it was found that there was a rape (many we don’t know about) of a child, who could not protect herself; and she, at 10!!, was either going through a pregnancy or at 10!! now has gone through an abortion. Do you think there will be a mental (or physical) issue for this child as a result of either, or both, situation going forward? I am sure it won’t be long before reporters DOX (sp) her and her family. It seems to be the only thing they do well. Is this the only way the doctor could get the knowledge of this rape out there. Were the adults (the guardian and the rapist) in the situation trying to keep it a secret? They certainly haven’t been thinking of the child. And now we have an illegal limmigrant that we will be feeding and sheltering for a long time. What he did may be acceptable in his country, but in my mind it should not become acceptable here.
“Dr. Bernard’s explanation for the removal of the child from Ohio was not consistent with Ohio law.”
Really?
Suppose you’re that doctor or the child’s parents. You want to risk your career, your finances, your freedom — on an ambitious DA’s interpretation of the Ohio law?!
A child was physically and psychologically abused. Then she was further traumatized by having to seek refuge in a neighboring state. And yet some focus on whether her case was within the six-week window.
Some of you have your priorities screwed up.
RE:”Some of you have your priorities screwed up.” Rubbish!! What is clear from the way information is filtering out of the media in pieces is that, prior to rendering final judgement regarding who has all their ducks in a row, the precise chronology of events need to be fully elucidated, made public, and final determination made as to whether or not proper procedure was followed according to the promulgated laws of all jurisdictions involved and if further legal action is warranted. .
No, it does not all need to be made public, and in fact HIPAA requires that some of it not be made public by any healthcare provider.
There is confirmation that someone has been arrested for raping a 10 year old who then became pregnant and needed an abortion, and whose mother — because of the vagaries of Ohio law — concluded that she’d have to go to another state to obtain an abortion for her 10 y.o. daughter.
It’s sick that Ohio’s law does not have an exception for rape, even for the rape of a child.
RE: “in fact HIPAA requires that some of it not be made public by any healthcare provider”…”he Privacy Rule protects all “individually identifiable health information” held or transmitted by a covered entity or its business associate, in any form or media, whether electronic, paper, or oral. The Privacy Rule calls this information “protected health”. Extracted from an NPR post…”The {Indianapolis}Star broke the story on July 1. While multiple doctors were quoted in the article, the introductory anecdote was attributed to a single source: Dr. Caitlin Bernard. Bernard, a prominent obstetrician-gynecologist who is an assistant professor at Indiana University’s medical school, told the paper’s reporters of a phone call from a child-abuse physician in Ohio. That article did not set out any further details about the Ohio patient nor explain how it had verified the doctor’s story” Given that Dr. Bernard felt the need to ‘pull the publicity trigger’ in this matter it is reasonable to suggest that what ever it is consistent with protections under HIPAA should be maintained, and the rest made available in the public interest given that it pertains to matters at local and state law.
“what ever it is consistent with protections under HIPAA should be maintained”
Right, so there is information here that should NOT be made public, including the girl’s identity. Why on earth is is not sufficient to you that the police have confirmed that a man has been arrested for raping a 10 y.o. who became public and whose mother took her to Indiana for an abortion because the vagaries of Ohio’s law made it unclear whether she cold legally obtain an abortion in Ohio, which has no exception for rape victims and which assumes that the pregnant person is a woman and not a child?
RE: ” Why on earth is is not sufficient to you…Here’s why it is NOT!! ” A world-wide donnybrook of extraordinary proportions has been created out of this crime because the physician who provided the service saw fit to make it public. I want to know WHY she chose to do so, and if any required or obligatory protocols or laws in force at the time were violated by anyone involved.
Jonathan: You and Fox are not the only ones with a lot to explain by questioning the veracity of Pres. Biden over his statement about the rape of the Ohio 10 year old. Jim Jordan also has egg on his face. After the President’s statement Jordan tweeted: “Another lie. Anyone surprised?”. And the WSJ, owned by your boss Rupert Murdock, had a headline: “An Abortion Story Too Good to Confirm” calling the story “fanciful”. And the GOP AG in Indiana, Todd Rokita, is making matters worse. He initially also questioned the story and now, being embarrassed, says he is “investigating” Dr. Bernard for failing to report the rape. The rape WAS reported in Ohio where the rape occurred. Where does Rokita think he has jurisdiction to investigate a rape that took place in another state? Of course, Rokita is grandstanding–trying to appeal to his GOP base. It is doubtful Rokita will actually prosecute Dr. Bernard for doing her job. The optics would be terrible–especially for a jury composed of women with young children! And the GOP in Indiana is doubling down. They want to pass an abortion law similar to the one in Ohio!
It’s a sad day when lawyers, like you, and armchair lawyers like Jim Jordan and Rupert Murdock, lie to further your own political agenda–to defend the SC’s decision in Dobbs that now lets states controlled by the GOP to criminalize women and children and the doctors who help them. The “Handmaid’s Tale” doesn’t begin to describe what is happening in this country!
JT, the thing you’re not owning up to is that in the post-Roe era we’ve entered, the laws are ambiguous and ill-defined. You are equating your personal interpretation of the Ohio law with ontological certainty that this poor girl would have had no problem getting her abortion in OH. But, others in a position of power could have the opposite interpretation — or force delay while clarification was sought, loathe to be accused of doing “the wrong thing”.
The goal of the girl and her family was to secure the abortion ASAP, and as quietly as possible, knowing the facts of the case would have it go viral if breached to the carnivorous media. And, any leak would cause the case to become a political football, with Team X working overtime on behalf of the rapist’s progeny to achieve birth.
You yourself, if advising the family (rather than in your role as a national pundit) would have undoubtedly have recommended to move quickly, avoid publicity, and avoid even possible obstacles.
After the fact, it’s easy to say “she could have gotten an abortion in OH”. It’s also disingenuous.
I’d like to hear you, as a legal analyst, own up to the ambiguities in exemptive clauses like “if there is reason to expect harm to come from carrying the pregnancy”. Any ObGyn will tell you that this is an impossibly vague standard upon which to draw a legal line.
The strength of Roe and Casey was it was relatively unambiguous in protecting patients and doctors from legal jeopardy. In the red states, that protection has been stripped away. A Pandora’s Box of conflicting interpretations has replaced it. This is, and will continue to be the legal upshot of Dobbs. Any competent (unbiased) legal analyst would agree that this is a huge problem.
And, the cavalcade of “edge cases” that red-state lawmakers failed to anticipate will drive the narrative.
I think this may be the “cultural enrichment” we keep hearing about.
🌮🌮🌮
https://twitter.com/MayraFlores2022/status/1547217237832077312
Mayra Flores
@MayraFlores2022
US inflation hit 9.1% over the past year; early polls indicate more breakfast tacos are leaning Republican
Guess some of us have to eat crow on aspects of this, but there’s still plenty fishy to sort through. The endless obfuscation and misdirection are maddening. Would love to know why and how the parents of this child were led to believe they had to leave the state when that is quite literally not true and also quite literally circumstantially has nothing to do with The Court’s rulings on abortion. As with ectopic pregnancy, they aren’t even really tangentially connected. It leads one to come to conclusions that are still egregious, and the fact that it quite possibly ties into our Swiss cheese cheese southern border makes it look like our dems may have stepped on another land mine they themselves lay.
I still don’t believe them. They will never be able to explain all the missing pieces and not found case facts, and now they conveniently have the confession and the girl saying it is him, as if on cue it’s all in place near immediately just a few hours after all the doubt.
I will NEVER believe them on this matter.
Then your mind is closed.
… he tells himself, looking in the mirror.
Side note: Ohio doesn’t play. The medical community does have reason to fear. My mom took part in the abortion underground railroad immediately pre Roe in Ohio. Sketchy, sketchy times.
Nothing to apologize for!! Haters gonna Hate!
OT:
We might be breakfast tacos to privileged white supremacists but Hispanics and many Americans are worried about daily preoccupations. Concerns like groceries, housing costs, utilities, clothing, children, health care costs, gasoline and
peaceful protestorsviolent criminals driving up violent crime, while Democrats cheer their Marxist “revolutionary” criminal justice reforms.¡Es la economía, estúpido!
U.S. Inflation Hits New Four-Decade High of 9.1%
https://www.wsj.com/articles/us-inflation-june-2022-consumer-price-index-11657664129
U.S. consumer inflation accelerated to 9.1% in June, a pace not seen in more than four decades, adding pressure on the Federal Reserve to act more aggressively to slow rapid price increases throughout the economy.
The consumer-price index’s advance for the 12 months ended in June was the fastest pace since November 1981, the Labor Department said on Wednesday. A big jump in gasoline prices—up 11.2% from the previous month and nearly 60% from a year earlier—drove much of the increase, while shelter and food prices were also major contributors
Estovir, we decided we couldn’t compete with Venezuela on tacos, so we are trying to compete on inflation. 🙂 I am waiting for the left’s excuse to be we aren’t as bad as Venezuela. I have sent a letter to Cuba for an exchange, one Cuban dinner for one Biden. If I send both Joe and Hunter, we can have dinner together.
Jerome Powell just released the following statement:
“NASA photos from the Webb telescope reflect, on a scale of light years, that inflation transitory.”
But did it spot Joe “Corn Pop” Biden in orbit or was he being sucked into a black hole?
If only…..
😜
Estovir,
The Biden’s, the Globalist Banking Trash, The Commie/Nazi Dims& Rinos’ massive Inflation Taxes remind me of Tornadoes & marriage here in the Midwest.
At 1st there’s a lot of sucking & blowing & then everyone looses the house!
LOL
Professor Turley proceeded with caution. The A.G. of Ohio did not. He doesn’t seem to understand how his own state might handle a matter like this, so he got ahead of the story and had a case of foot in mouth.
Having said that, I’m not seeing a lot of quotes from a statute, and application of that statute to the facts. The statue says this. These are the facts. Therefore, a doctor can proceed or not in this instance. Is Turley suggesting that a 10-year-old by definition is in danger of surviving a pregnancy, and therefore did not have to go to Indiana? What about 11? Do I hear 12? Or is he suggesting that there was no heartbeat and therefore did not have to go to Indiana? Do doctors have to have documentation of ultrasounds now? Which kind of ultrasound? A heartbeat can be detected at 3-4 weeks, sometimes 5-6. Other times 71/2 to 8. What constitutes a sufficient heartbeat on the ultrasound? Is that up to the discretion of the prosecutor? And even if you can nail all of that down in an analysis, what about the Alvin Braggs of the world, who can’t find affirmative defenses or exceptions when they’re in plain sight? While one of those people is horsing around with you and ruining your practice, you’re not exactly fine and dandy even if it eventually gets straightened out. One thing’s for sure. You’re not go to see the prosecutor get disciplined for it.
the adults are discussing this and other important issues. Reddit is where you might gain some traction
RE:”Having said that, I’m not seeing a lot of quotes from a statute, and application of that statute to the facts…” The law is ass-backwards, promulgated by legislators who are equally so. The law references ‘women’. It does not speak to or provide for ‘children’, as if that possibility could not have occurred to the braindead in that statehouse. Now they’re running headstrong into writing a zero-tolerance bill to supercede the current legislation, to prohibit abortion from time of conception. .
…”
SteveJ: That is excellent, and precisely the issue.
There’s nothing to apologize for. A 10-year-old got raped by an illegal serial rapist because of Biden’s wide open border non-policy and malfeasance. She could have had an abortion in Ohio but got grandstanded into Indiana and the Left either put her parents up to it or capitalized on her plight. In no way, does Creepy Joe, his policies, the mad Left or Abortion win. No way. Just because you get the tune wrong with good reason doesn’t mean you can’t tell that the song is a dirge.