Media, Politics

National Police Association and Other Groups Sue to Obtain Audrey Hale Manifesto
Nashville Police Department

In March, Audrey Hale shocked the nation by opening fire at The Covenant School in Nashville, Tennessee. The police soon acknowledged that they had a manifesto from Hale on why she took this inexplicable and horrific action. We all then waited for the release of the manifesto. We are still waiting.

It is not uncommon for there to be a delay in the release of information in a major crime pending investigation. What was weird is that the police quickly confirmed that Hale acted alone and Hale was dead. There is no prosecution that will occur in the case. Yet, it is May and the authorities are still refusing to release the manifesto . . . and they will not fully explain why. Now, the National Police Association and other groups are suing to make the writings and other materials of mass shooter Audrey Hale public.

There were twenty journals, five laptops, a suicide note, yearbooks, cellphones and various notes written by Hale, 28, that were seized from the house she shared with her parents. There have been press reports that the authorities consider the manifesto to be “astronomically dangerous.”

They may be unsettling and even dangerous, but the question is the right of the authorities to keep such evidence from the public and the press. The government can always declare information to be too “dangerous” to release for a variety of reasons. However, we have a system that defaults to disclosures and public access.

The Tennessee Public Records Act governs records created by any governmental entity of Tennessee, including the police department. The law covers all records “regardless of physical form or characteristic, made or received pursuant to law or ordinance or in connection with the transaction of official business by any governmental entity.” Note the verb “received.” That would include this evidence. Furthermore, “made” would include emails addressing why authorities decided to withhold the documents.

If these are public records they must “be open for personal inspection by any citizen of this state,” and custodians cannot refuse access “unless otherwise provided by state law.”

There is an exception under Rule 16(a)(2) of the Tennessee Rules of Criminal Procedure for ongoing investigations or prosecutions, but this case is clearly not active in the sense of any additional charges. Hale is dead. The law does not contemplate that the government can simply declare that a case is forever pending as a way to avoid disclosures.

I do not know what is in the manifesto or why it is so unnerving for authorities. However, what is clearly “dangerous” is for officials to flout the law and withhold information from the press and the public.

211 thoughts on “National Police Association and Other Groups Sue to Obtain Audrey Hale Manifesto”

  1. Evidently there is no shortage of conspiracy theorists and nut jobs commenting on this article and…..Holy Jesus, they are certainly nuts and it shows exactly why the FBI and Tennessee authorities are justified in withholding the manifesto. The risk to the transgender community is more important that the public’s need to know. They can always release it when these nutties are calmed down.

    It hasn’t been released and already there are all kinds of BS about the transgendered being spewed around. That’s just a on this blog. Imagine how the truly nuts and dangerous individuals are who populate social media sites like Parler, Gab, and..congress are going to react. The possibility of violent and threats to the transgender community are very real. Sadly that point is lost in the massive ignorance that permeates these groups of nutties and religious zealots. That’s how the Salem witch trials came about and is also how the phrase “witch-hunt” was born. Nut jobs and paranoid religious zealots accusing anyone of belonging to witchcraft because the ignorance was never challenged.

      2. Ron A. Hoffman, nope. Just marveling at the deep levels of ignorance on display.

    2. I bet she wanted to be a martyr and encourage more shootings of specifically right-wing soft targets, like the christian school she shot up. I bet she mentions her state’s legislation as the reason for it, too. And the nutshell of it all is probably as crazy as “we need to protect the kids by killing THEIR kids”… If it’s that bad, we all need to see it for ourselves. And we need to confront the sad reality that half the country is literally enabling mental illness with their trans activism and that posts like yours ultimately don’t help starting the discussion we need to be having.

      1. While a interesting opinion, I for one am waiting for further evidence to include the release of the manifesto to make a sound, objective judgement. That would be government transparency.
        Otherwise, it is all a WAG.
        As for the whole trans movement, as long as it does not affect children under the age of 18, I could care less what they do. Want to claim you are a she when you were born biologically a he, have at it. None of my business.
        But do not expect me to indulge in you delusion.
        And stay out of women’s sports.
        That Bud Light wackadoodle Dylan whatshisname, he is an idiot. He is a mockery of women. And there are thousands of Americans who follow him. How dumb is that?

    3. So where were you when they were releasing George Floyd video? Or what about the video that caused a rush to judgment regarding Bogdan Vechirko?

      FOIA obligations don’t turn on law enforcement’s assessment of “nutties.”

    4. Isn’t it something when government at different levels wants to with hold information from being released to protect us. Info about JFKs assasination are still being with held. And of course the big guys debating skills will not be put on display.

  2. This may well be the first time that a manifesto has not been duly released when the circumstances are such that no further investigations are necessary and no prosecutions required. Might a reason be that in this case the mentally ill perpetrator of the indiscriminate killing spree was a person to the extreme left of the political spectrum and not the extreme right? Might it be in this case that it is more important to shield liberals and others on the mainstream left from the hideous acts of any of their extremists than it is to shield conservatives and others on the mainstream right from the same acts of any of their extremists?

    It does greater society no good to differentiate the two. Mental illness that abides in and with extremism is the bane of our time, and it needs to be laid bare regardless of politics, openly acknowledged by everyone still mentally healthy and not extreme, and responsibly dealt with posthaste for the sake of ourselves and generations to come.

      1. Uh Ron and Upstate Farmer: this is ruby-red TENNESSEE–no one in Tennessee law enforcement is going to refuse to release information to protect any of what you call “lefties”. What is profound about your posts is that you immediately assume that the reason the information hasn’t been released is to hide some left-wing agenda, and you even drag in an attack on mainstream media It’s the alt-right conditioning that skews your thinking. More fallout from Trump, who is destroying this country from within. There may be multiple reasons why law enforcement is not releasing these materials– one reason might be, as Sgt.Friday would say, “to protect the innocent.” There may be evidence of other crimes, too, like acquisition of weapons from people who haven’t been charged yet, and who would flee or destroy evidence. I can think of lots of other non-nefarious reasons for not releasing this information–including facts that would be embarrassing to others in the community who are not responsible for the shooting, disclosure of sexual activities of people not involved in the shooting–lots of reasons other than to hide some left-wing agenda.

        1. I do not suggest the reason is to “hide” some left-wing agenda. The left-wing agenda is well out in the open for everyone to see. No, what I suggest as the reason is to favor responsible liberals and other leftists who are not extremists from having to be embarrassed by their extremist elements and to admit there is a problem in their house. Unless you are yourself an extremist, you would appreciate the concern shared by what I hope is most people on the left.

          1. Ron A. Hoffman,
            What you are suggesting is a degree of common sense for “liberals.”
            Traditional “liberals” like the good professor or Bill Maher, are shocked and sadden by this incident. They to are likely interested in what the manifesto says. Why keep it under wraps?
            I would say it is the illiberal leftists whom want to keep the manifesto buried. Even if they do not know what is in it, it may point out their extremism. The left-wing extreme agenda is as you point out, on full display for all to see. We see it everyday here on the good professor’s blog.
            It just may be the extremist side that is what they need to hide.

        2. As a whole Tennessee votes red. But all of metro Nashville and the city government and police are deep blue and have been for years.

    2. Ron A. Hoffman, why the hurry? You don’t think it would be prudent to wait until feelings and emotions on the tragedy subside before releasing the manifesto? Clearly there are those who only want it because it would given them an excuse to further denigrate an entire group of people as “mentally ill”. It wasn’t long ago that the gay community was deemed to be “mentally ill” by the same people making the current claim.

      What difference would it make if they chose to release the manifesto a year from now? Why the need have it out now, when emotions and anger towards a whole group are still high and raw?

      There is no evidence that she was even mentally ill. She may just have been pushed to her breaking point and the only outlet was to lash out by going by shooting people. Nobody will ever know if she was really mentally ill. That is never going to be a fact. We only apply that label to things we don’t fully understand and probably never will. I understand that many on the right want to lay blame on the left because it serves their purpose to label everything they don’t agree with as “leftist”. What if the school she once attended shares part of the blame? Being bullied because of who she was or perceived who she was could not be a factor? Adults at christian school have been known to bully those who “don’t conform” to their views. It’s better to wait until things calm down, right?

      1. Interesting comment from a guy who spends 18 hours of every day of his otherwise empty life on this blog denigrating an entire group of people as “mentally ill.”

        1. Thersites, thank you for that. It has given me my first belly laugh of the day.

        3. Great point Thersites. To attempt to rationalize these executions as committed by a sane person requires someone be of equal mind, or at a minimum sympathetic to a defense of the executioner.

      2. Why hasn’t it been prudent to wait until feelings and emotions subside before releasing manifestos left by mentally ill extremists on the right? When one indiscriminately kills innocent people, they are mentally ill. It matters not that they were ever bullied. What the hell is wrong with your thinking?

        1. Ron A. Hoffman,
          Again, another well said comment.
          When anyone kills innocent people to include children, they are by definition mentally ill.
          To say otherwise is absurd.
          The double standard is quite appalling.

        2. And if there was such rage and anger, would it not of presented itself immediately after the incident?
          Had this conversation with a good friend recently. She was amazed that a group of rednecks have not shot up a drag queen show.
          I said, rednecks dont care about drag shows. The Nashville PD went in heroic fashion and took out the threat. I am sure rednecks that cared enough to watch the body cam of the NPD officer, cheered when he plugged her. I know I did.
          Okay. That is over.
          Now, what was her reasons to commit such a heinous act?
          What was her mentality? Her reasoning? By reading her manifesto, what can be learned? Are there signs and symptoms we can identify that can be used in the future to raise the flag if we were to see them? Is that not better in to prevent future mass shootings?
          If we do not learn from the past, then we are doomed to repeat them.

          1. And anyone with any degree of common sense and can define what a woman is, would not apply the manifesto to all trans persons. That is absurd. People who are mentally ill are outliers even in the extremes of either side.
            Shooting children is a obvious evidence of mental illness.
            To think otherwise is absurd.

            1. “Shooting children is a obvious evidence of mental illness.” A few Leftists might agree, yet most still have no problem aborting the same kid while in utero without giving a second thought.

        3. Ron A. Hoffman, mental illness suggests that what she did was not her fault. Right? It wasn’t premeditated or anything so why bother needing to read what she wrote. According to you we already know why she shot all those people. She was mentally ill. What more do we need to know? Why bother knowing what the motive was? What purpose would it serve? You already determined why she did it. So, based on YOUR great insight there’s no need to have her manifesto released.

          1. How about we gain insight into why she was mentally ill? What is your real reason for not wanting to know what is in the manifesto? Your logical reason? Your rational reason? Your sane reason?

      3. Where was Svelaz when they were releasing the George Floyd video?

      4. HAHA! What a clown world you live in. No evidence he was mentally ill? How about the fact that he dresses like a girl and murders children. That pretty much screams mentally ill. Back to the funny farm for you.

      5. Svelaz
        Not the least cogent rant you’ve ever posted, so kudos for that. But suggesting that some one who premeditated and murdered innocent children is not mentally ill…doesn’t take a degree to diagnose that. Also, implying that there may be some justification makes me wonder about your state of mental health.

      6. No evidence that she is mentally ill. She just walked into a building and killed 6 people. Oh yah, its gun violence.

  3. Why is no one addressing the ‘Elephant in the room’ of the Audrey Hale killing? Hale’s rampage could be called an act of vengeance against a Christian School that occurred only a few days before a radical Trans group had planned a Trans Day Of Vengeance for April 1 (which they ironically cancelled due to safety concerns).
    That some would try to keep the manifesto and other writings by Hale from the public because the release would be ‘astronomically dangerous’ is laughable considering the FBI has publically called white supremacists the greatest domestic terror threat. Isn’t the FBI’s statement astronomically dangerous to all white people in the U.S.? After all, I don’t think some leftist extremists are going to check for membership credentials before going after people for being ‘white supremacists’. Or maybe wearing a MAGA hat or having a Trump bumper sticker is enough justification to consider someone a white supremacist. And eventually to some any Caucasian can be considered a white supremacist

  4. Not worth all the airy persiflage especially when it serves to launch another volley of pontifications from Svelaz. Pending the outcome of the NPA effort, there are stranger things under the sun.

  5. 🎶 Well I’m not the world’s most masculine man
    But I know what I am and I’m glad I’m a man
    And so is Lola
    Lo lo lo lo Lola, lo lo lo lo Lola 🎶

  7. Releasing the manifesto could possibly clear things up. Was the killer encouraged by others in the trans community or did he act alone? If he did act alone we should know it and it would put to rest any speculation that he was encouraged by a militant branch of the trans community otherwise known as ANTIFA. it could all be settled with a release of the manifesto. We have a right to know which groups did or did not support his efforts. The best disinfectant is transparency. I think that all of the big boys and girls can handle knowing who he was.

  8. On a scale of 1 to 10 Turley, you hit a 9 with the cult today, nice going with the “age of rage” you so worry about.

    1. FishWings, it’s amazing that nobody is realizes that what they FBI and the Tennessee law enforcement were concerned about is materializing right here. Turley either is being seriously naive or deliberately feeding the rage that they reason why the manifesto shouldn’t be released yet.

      The need to lay blame is strong on this group and it shows. They are hungry for vengeance and retaliation.

      1. Fish and Svelaz: they look for any reason to stir up rage against LGBTQ people, another of Turley’s assignments. Just look at the assumptions posted by the usual suspects. Audrey just might have been seriously mentally ill, and nothing more.

        1. Where is the rage? Reading the comments, there is little to no rage. There is the want of transparency. The expectation of the government to release information in a timely manner. Who is calling for rage against the LGBTQ community? Who have attacked the trans community with real physical violence. Vengeance or retaliation? No one. I see many saying shooting kids is mental illness. Hard to argue that. You would have to be messed up in the head to do any kind of mass shooting let alone kids.

  9. We the People are in charge. Those in government work for us, yet in their arrogance they want to decide what we, their bosses, are allowed to see.
    This censorship by our subordinates needs to end.

  10. maybe there will be something in the manifesto that will adequately explain why she was wearing a pair of pumas in the surveillance video and then changed them out for a pair of vans on the police bodycam video
    and then maybe a non biased police criminal forensics expert can explain exactly how she was hit at point plank range multiple times with multiple 5.56 and 9mm/.40 cal rounds and there wasnt any blood on her or on the floor underneath her or the wall behind her
    and then maybe since pistol braced firearms are almost never used in mass shootings a probability and statistics expert can explain the odds of pistol braced firearms being a top discussion topic in official hearings on capitol hill the same week that one was used in a mass shooting at a Christian school
    and then maybe a political science professor can explain how the white house press secretary cannot bring herself to declare that a mass shooting at a Christian school by an obviously anti-Christian individual is a hate crime

  11. Turley loves to manipulate by omission. Here’s why authorities have good reason to believe the manifesto shouldn’t be released.

    “What I was told is, her manifesto was a blueprint on total destruction, and it was so, so detailed at the level of what she had planned,” she said, when reached by phone.

    “That document in the wrong person’s hands would be astronomically dangerous,” she added.”

    …”I think what the FBI is really concerned here with, and I think law enforcement, is that if there is something in there that is truly damaging for the transgender community, I think they are hesitant to do it because they are afraid of a violent backlash against that protected class of people.”

    https://nypost.com/2023/04/20/audrey-hale-manifesto-blueprint-on-destruction-say-pols-who-claim-fbi-stalling-release/

    It’s precisely my point and one that they know is an issue. As I noted congressmen are demanding the manifesto be released, Republican congressmen, the ones who stand to benefit from it to make create more laws and further denigrate the trans community. Turley completely ignored that context and it should be no mystery as to why. It would also provide nice juicy red meat for his rabid paranoid readers. Good stuff to feed the rage he is often complaining about. Does Turley not realize that this CAN and WILL be used to feed the rage against that group of people?

    If the FBI, Tennessee law enforcement, even politicians are saying this is not going to released because it really has the potential to escalate things then they would be justified in waiting until things “cool down”.

    1. Could it possibly tell us that she was on drugs and the more drugs, the longer she was on, the more dangerous she became?

      Could it be that she met with others who are dangerous trans?

      Lots to think about. The answers are in the documents that need to be released.

      1. Anonymous,

        “Could it be that she met with others who are dangerous trans?

        Lots to think about. The answers are in the documents that need to be released.”

        That’s what makes it dangerous. It gives people an excuse to persecute anyone deemed to be trans beause they may be “potentially” dangerous. It gives them “lots to think about”. You’re ready to label all to them dangerous and that gives credence to withhold the manifesto until the animosity and anger subsides. That would be a more rational course of action and a prudent one.

        Not all manifestos are released to the public and the reason is often to deny the person who committed the atrocity any notoriety and recognition. The only reason why so many conservatives and christian zealots want this is so they have a reason to lay blame to an entire group of people, they WANT to persecute those who they already see as a “threat to children”. I for one agree that it shouldn’t be released.

        2. ” It gives people an excuse to persecute anyone deemed to be trans beause they may be “potentially” dangerous. It gives them “lots to think about”.”

          Either way, the release of the documents helps the trans. They indicate what can help trans in the future. Either way, such knowledge helps the trans population and others in the community. It might tell us nothing except the leftist ideology is hurting people. That is what you are afraid of.

          “You’re ready to label all to them dangerous “

          You are ready to create an environment that makes trans dangerous to themselves or others. You are the one pushing all the garbage. You are the one providing hormones to children and disfiguring them. You are the problem, not the trans and not the conservative.

          “zealots want this is so they have a reason to lay blame to an entire group of people”

          How does it lay blame on people if the truth is released?

          “I for one agree that it shouldn’t be released.”

          You are a person who doesn’t think, so your opinion isn’t worth anything.

    2. …”I think what the FBI is really concerned here with, and I think law enforcement, is that if there is something in there that is truly damaging for the transgender community, I think they are hesitant to do it because they are afraid of a violent backlash against that protected class of people.”
      *******************************
      Yeah, when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor we shouldn’t have known about it lest we think ill of the Japanese. The Left is a cauldron of madness and we’re the fire. It’s a democracy, our nanny government owes us transparency.

      1. Mespo,

        “Yeah, when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor we shouldn’t have known about it lest we think ill of the Japanese.”

        We threw American citizens of Japanese descent into concentration camps simply because they were Japanese. They were American citizens who were unconstitutionally robbed of their property and rights. Very authoritarian and very…Stalinist according to S. Meyer.

        1. Svelaz – you’re correct. The Democrat’s favorite President threw the Nissei into interment camps with little evidence against them. A bit like throwing J6 protesters into prison on little evidence. Once again, it is the Democrats abusing the justice system.

          2. Edward,

            “ A bit like throwing J6 protesters into prison on little evidence”

            They literally videotaped themselves committing the crimes they are accused of. I’d say that’s more than “little evidence”.

        2. Slavery, Three-fifths Compromise, Indian Removal Act, Jim Crow, segregation, COVID lockdowns, mandating shots, etc….all ‘brilliant’ democratic party policy that sought to punish Americans.

    3. Turley does what he is told, and doesn’t care how his credentials are used to push the Fox/alt-right agenda: “Hunter Biden Scandal”; anti-LGBTQ, book banning and other culture wars nonsense, suppressing the vote, gerrymandering by Republicans, the antics of Marjorie Taylor Greene, Trump’s various legal trials…he does what he is told to do, damn the consequences.

      1. Do you have evidence of the good professor doing what he is “told?”
        Or are you just throwing out speculation and talking out of your posterior end?

    4. So what? When some cop pins a handcuffed man to the street and kills him (certainly something to lead to violence), there is no justification for withholding the video, So why here? Or let’s say a trucker, driving along fat dumb and happy, plows through a crowd on an interstate, the video has to be released immediately (better to whip up the fervor so we can prosecute him on BS grounds). Didn’t hear you calling for delays then.

      By the way, what happened to the Minnesota truck driver was an absolute travesty, and, in my view, the people involved with his arrest and prosecution need to go to prison for a long long time.

  12. OT:

    The billionaire Democratic mega-donor Reid Hoffman – who founded LinkedIn and is funding author E. Jean Carroll’s rape lawsuit against former President Donald Trump – visited the private island of convicted sex offender and financier Jeffery Epstein and was scheduled to stay at his Manhattan townhouse in 2014, documents show.

  13. More government controls on our speech and hence our thoughts. “Where’s Manifesto?” should be on everyone’s t-shirt. Not every tranny is a violent soldier in the culture wars but they all are suffering from a mental disturbance. Obviously. We need to identify the killers and hospitalize them.

    1. Mespo’s post is exactly why it shouldn’t be released any time soon. It creates an atmosphere of suspicion and animosity towards others who may end up being targets of paranoid nut jobs thinking they are doing society a favor. THAT is the danger they are talking about.
      Remember, in 1999 a gay man was brutally murdered because he was gay. It was back when anyone who was gay was in danger of being assaulted and beaten because paranoid religious zealots pushed the idea that gay men were evil and sought to “turn” straight men into homosexuals. That kind of rampant paranoid is easy to spread. That was not that long ago. Gay couples were afraid to even hold hands in public for fear of being assaulted. Now we have conservative christian zealots wanting to know what was in that manifesto so they can spread falsehoods and fear about the transgendered and imply some sort of violence is justified…because one ended up shooting up a school, a christian school. Never mind that school shootings are common in the country now. There was nothing extra special about the Tennessee shooting than any other school shooting. That is what is truly sad and an unfortunate reality.

  14. Whatever has been called “astronomically dangerous” is unlikely to contain classified material. As is almost always the case, the coverup is frequently worse than whatever the government is trying to hide. While interest from the public might be based on prurience, the refusal to release the information under the guise of it being “too dangerous” for the public to see is censorship. We can’t have a free press if the government decides what is too dangerous to publish. Such decisions are indicative of totalitarianism. Failing to demand information is acquiescence of the totalitarian aims. Totalitarianism is a creeping system; failing to hold the government accountable will ultimately lead to further encroachment on the rights of a free press.
    I don’t know if I’ll be enlightened, enraged or bored by Hale’s musings, but they are nothing more than words on a page.

    1. Brendan,

      “I don’t know if I’ll be enlightened, enraged or bored by Hale’s musings, but they are nothing more than words on a page.”

      To you they may be. But to someone else they may be more than that and many would gladly take those words and use them to incite violence against others like her. We don’t want that, do we? Those “words on a page” can be weaponized against a whole group of people by those who already have an agenda against them. That includes politicians who have been passing anti-LGBTQ laws and continue to demonize them for political gain.

      1. What exactly is an anti-LGBTQ law–one that says that kids under 10 shouldn’t be exposed to ouevres like “The Joy of Gay Sex”? Or that prohibit the mutilation of minors’ genitalia?

        Dude, I from NYC–pretty much don’t care what anyone does–once they are 18. And I support these laws whole-heartedly.

  15. Ryan Goodman (NYU law school):
    “The Deadline of May 4 appears to have now passed — without Trump requesting “bill of particulars” from Manhattan DA in hush money indictment? A defendant can’t claim they’re denied due process by DA not further specifying charges, if the defendant doesn’t request specification.”

    1. Who or what are you quoting? Who or What says that May 4 was the deadline for requesting a bill of particulars? And who or what says that it’s Trump’s responsibility to request presentation of a bill of particulars?

      I ask because I’ve previously been involved in litigation where a bill of particulars was not presented when the law required its presentation. In the case I was involved in, it wasn’t the defendant’s responsibility to request a bill of particulars — it was the prosecution’s responsibility to present one, and when it didn’t, that became an assignment of error in the appeal.

      1. S/he who refuses to be name appears to be quoting a tweet from one Ryan Goodman:

        https://twitter.com/rgoodlaw/status/1654457602053484551

        Further, it appears that he’s correct about NY statute:

        https://casetext.com/statute/consolidated-laws-of-new-york/chapter-criminal-procedure/part-2-the-principal-proceedings/title-i-preliminary-proceedings-in-superior-court/article-200-indictment-and-related-instruments/section-20095-indictment-bill-of-particulars

        However, Goodman also notes that the request for removal to Federal court may have stopped the clock.

        1. Per the NY authority you cited:

          “1. Definitions.
          (a) ‘Bill of particulars’ is a written statement by the prosecutor specifying, as required by this section, items of factual information which are not recited in the indictment and which pertain to the offense …”

          In other words, a “bill of particulars” is a description of the alleged conduct that complies with the charged offense.

          That issue is severely complicated by the failure of the charge to state any felony offense. In my opinion, it’s one thing to (1) charge a specific felony offense and omit the details, which would then require a defendant to file a motion for a bill of particulars, and (2) fail to charge a specific felony offense.

          Last I heard — and admittedly I’ve not been following motions filed in this case — Bragg has not specified any felony offense and is simply claiming that a felony statute of limitation somehow applies. When reporters asked Bragg what the felony was that would extend the statute of limitation, Bragg said that he didn’t have to state what it is.

          I don’t know that a prosecutor can charge someone with misdemeanors for which statutes of limitation have expired and nakedly assert that there is some unstated felony involved so as to extend the statute(s) of limitation, without even stating what the felony charge is. A bill of particulars is intended to identify the conduct that allegedly fits the charged offense, but as yet I’m not aware of any specified charged felony offense.

      2. “Who or what are you quoting?”

        I identified who I was quoting: Ryan Goodman, a law professor at NYU. That was the very first line of my comment. Here is the tweet: https://twitter.com/rgoodlaw/status/1654457602053484551

        “Who or What says that May 4 was the deadline for requesting a bill of particulars?”

        The tweet has a screenshot of the law in question, which notes the timeliness deadline of 30 days after arraignment.

        Goodman has since added that “The answer here may be that Trump’s notice of removal to federal court stopped the clock.” Trump filed yesterday in an attempt (that will likely fail) to move the case to federal court.

        “And who or what says that it’s Trump’s responsibility to request presentation of a bill of particulars?”

        See the screenshot of the law.

        1. LOL — NOW if you could just direct me to WHERE Trump was charged with a felony offense, AND what that felony offense is. A bill of particulars — as the name suggests — provides a description of the particular alleged oonduct that fits the charged offense.
          WHERE can I find a statement of the alleged felony for which Trump would request a bill of particulars describing the conduct that would fit the charged felony offense?

            1. LOL LOL LOL LOL — So you can’t identify the alleged felony.

              I don’t need to read your ridiculous obfuscation, fraud. If the indictment had identified the alleged felony, all of those reporters wouldn’t have been asking Bragg to identify it AFTER the arraignment, and Bragg wouldn’t have answered them by claiming that he wasn’t required to identify the felony.

              Professor Turley only injures his website by allowing frauds like you to garbage up the comment section with continual nonsense.

              1. The indictment DOES identify 34 counts of the alleged felony, “falsifying business records in the First Degree, in violation of Penal Law §175.10.”

                What it doesn’t do — and what a bill of particulars *would* do if demanded — is identify the secondary crime referenced in “with intent to defraud and intent to commit another crime and aid and conceal the commission thereof.”

                “I don’t need to read [the indictment]”

                No wonder you’re so confused.

                “If the indictment had identified the alleged felony …”

                But it does. What it does not do — which you would know if you got off your lazy @ss and read the indictment — is identify the secondary crime that bumps it up from a misdemeanor for a felony. That’s the whole point of Goodman’s note about the bill of particulars, oh lazy one.

                1. You’re only embarrassing Turley with your lying nonsense and ad hominem attacks, fraud boy.
                  The alleged FELONY has NOT been identified.

                  1. LOL that you name call while complaining about ad hom. BTW, you should learn the definition of ad hom (https://iep.utm.edu/fallacy/#AdHominem), so that you don’t misapply the term. Your laziness is relevant here, and therefore isn’t ad hom. Moreover, I didn’t dismiss your argument due to your laziness, but due to your incorrectness, which I directly addressed — again, not ad hom.

                    I literally quoted the alleged felony to you: “falsifying business records in the First Degree, in violation of Penal Law §175.10” IS a FELONY. Apparently you either can’t or don’t want to understand the difference between the alleged felonies and the secondary crime — which need not be a felony — that bumps the crimes up from a misdemeanor (§175.05) to a felony (§175.10).

                    1. Anon. – in what way we’re the records “falsified?”

                    2. Read the Statement of Facts for yourself instead of asking me to digest it for you.

              2. There are no known crimes, no known felonies, just a known Soros appointed DA who is carrying through with his known promise to his well known TDS audience, who are well known to believe they are above the law, and manipulate it to their advantage. NYC Criminal defense lawyer SCOTT H. GREENFIELD, no fan of Trump, put it best:

                In addition to the indictment, District Attorney Alvin Bragg separately filed what he captioned “statement of facts,” which isn’t actually a thing although it told the prosecution’s story behind the indictment. Whether this will bind the prosecution later remains to be seen, but for now it’s the best there is. But what is missing in both documents is the other crime. Each count recites the statutory language, as counts usually do, including this:

                …with intent to defraud and intent to commit another crime and aid and conceal the commission thereof…

                There are a number of possibilities as to the “other crimes,” which may be the same for all counts or may be different, since there’s no clue what they actually are.

                https://blog.simplejustice.us/2023/04/05/the-other-crimes-remain-a-mystery/

                Anonymous trolls = scroll

                1. You clearly didn’t scroll by the exchange with me. And Bragg is not a “Soros appointed DA.”

                  As you can see, Greenfield agrees with me that “what is missing in both documents is the other crime,” not the felony itself. NY doesn’t require that the secondary crime be identified, but Trump could find it out by demanding a bill of particulars, hence my original quote from Goodman.

      3. “Who or what are you quoting? Who or What says that May 4 was the deadline for requesting a bill of particulars?”

        The name at the beginning of the post gives you a big clue. Google can help with the rest of your inquiry.

  16. OT:

    Email from John Brennan responding to Mike Morell regarding the IC letter containing 51 names.

    “Trying to give the campaign, particularly during the debate on Thursday, a talking point to push back on Trump on this issue.”

    This demonstrates the decadence of our IC community especially at the top. It also show them to be stupid to put such a response on paper. No wonder our government makes so many mistakes. Idiots run our CIA and IC.

    Full email at: https://justthenews.com/sites/default/files/2023-05/MorellBrennanEMailOct2020.pdf

    1. Decadent? Absolutely. But stupid? Only if it had a realistic expectation of negative consequences for them. There are none. This was a calculated effort to sow the seeds of doubt long enough to secure a general election victory. We’re never going to have enough public outcry about any of this while the MSM is effectively state run. The House can’t force the DOJ to indict anyone and the Senate will never impeach. Oh, but we have the ballot box. 😤 They got a guy with dementia and a guy suffering from a severe stroke elected. Their tactics are only going to get better…for them. So that leaves only the Courts as our last line of defense. And they are quite literally in the Left’s crosshairs.

      2. Morell’s actions were criminal.

        Executive branch employees can not actively engage in politics from within the governmnent.

        Brennan, Blinken and those outside government participated in a criminal conspiracy to rig the election using government.

        1. I have absolutely no doubt that all of that is true. And while we have laws, regulations, procedures to deal with that, we don’t have the one thing to put those laws, regulations and procedures into action: PEOPLE. The entire system requires honorable people to make it work. Not all, but a majority in key positions. A House majority can not do it alone. SCOTUS can’t do it alone. Conservative radio, TV and print cannot do it as a minority voice. When Democrats decry the Republican/Conservative movement as a threat to our democracy, Our is not in reference to the United States. It’s in reference to the majority positions Democrats hold over the true power of government.

          So John, do you know what Morell, Brennan, Blinken and all the others have to say when they are “caught” violating the law? “So what are you going to do about it?”

          1. “so what are you going to do about it ?”

            Read the declaration of independence.
            That is what occurs when all else fails

            1. Read the declaration of independence.
              That is what occurs when all else fails

              I have. I have it memorized. I’ve studied every word of it. Those self-evident truths are put to the test everyday and everyday those truths are ignored, we move once step closer to the one that we cannot ignore. Isn’t it fitting that JT posted about the dearth in civics literacy today. So while you, I and others recognize where we are headed, the rest of our citizens remain either in complete ignorance of the lessons of history, or are slowly coming out of it. It takes a long train of abuses before people take action. But that’s only part of the equation. We have a lot of action going on right now. Are they acting on their real loss of security of their rights by an abusive government? Or are they acting against their neighbor, ignorantly inspired by that same government? My guess is the latter. Which means things will need to get far worse. As Yuri Bezmenov said, it will take a boot on the neck by our government to focus their attention on the real enemy.

              1. “But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government”

          2. If people get the time this weekend they might find some interesting interviews at Banned.Video. There’s plenty of other info there.

            *****

            Live from the Darian Gap: Chinese Communists Plan to Take Over the United States Exposed

            77,688 views

            May 4, 2023

            The Alex Jones Show

            Michael Yon (twitter: @Michael_Yon) joins The Alex Jones Show from the Darian Gap to expose the weaponized migration being exploited by the Communist Chinese to take over the United States

            https://banned.video/watch?id=6454290406ad5506dd73dd8e

            Today it’s was one from the Proud Boys’ Lawyers about the Sham of a Trial at the Dis-Trick of Anti-American Commies & the total fake charges:

            ******
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            EXCLUSIVE: Lawyers For Jan. 6th Political Prisoners Say Prosecutors Are Targeting Trump Next

            5,693 views
            May 5, 2023
            The Alex Jones Show
            Norm Pattis and Steve Metcalf join Alex Jones live via Skype to break down the recent verdicts reached in Washington D.C. courts for Proud Boys / January 6th protestors and predict what’s next.

            https://banned.video/watch?id=64555ef72e5f9c081487956f

          1. While your source is incomplete – the more critical part is that Morell was not in the federal government in 2020
            He therefore could not violate the hatch act.

            Absent a hatch act violation we appear to have immoral rather than illegal conduct.
            Though we have plenty of hatch act violations elsewhere.

            The CIA, FBI, DHS can not act in an election – such as by conspiring to censor political speech.
            They could not do so even if that was not a violation of the first amendment – it would still violate the hatch act.

            Further the Government grants that Obama authorized that paid NGO to monitor the internet and forward requests to censor political speech would also be both unconstitutional and a violation of the hatch act. Those in the NGO can not violate the hatch act – but those funding them did.
            The government can not fund political activity.

            Nor can agents of the government act in ways the government itself is denied.

  17. Just as heuristic language (jargon) is often used to obscure rather than clarify, everyday words are often used incorrectly to mislead and obfuscate, “mass” for example. In my dictionary (1965), “mass” is defined as “a quantity or aggregate of matter usually of considerable size” a “whole,” “a large quantity, amount or number,” “a large body of persons in a compact group,” “the body of people as contrasted with the elite,” in short, something “large-scale” or “total” (when viewed as a whole). That is the meaning leftists used to have in mind when they talked about the ‘masses,’ and reporters when they described a ‘mass of protesters’ or a ‘mass attack’ by aircraft or tanks (imagine four tanks as a mass, or a ‘finger four’ of fighters as a mass).
    The use of “mass” to describe a shooting incident in which four people have died is therefore not only not credible; it is obviously intended to use “mass” not as a precise descriptor, but for the connotations it carries, a disingenuous stratagem at best, and one which seems intended to promote a particular agenda or point of view . . . unless, of course, we accept that “two’s company, three’s a crowd, and four’s a mass. . . .”

  18. “There is no prosecution that will occur in the case.”

    No, but there is pent up demand from conservatives and Christian zealots to persecute. Especially those like Audrey Hale. It’s the same pattern with regard for their need to dole out punishment and demagogue those who don’t conform to their idea of what should be normal. They want an excuse to be able to be the bigots they really are and the release of the manifesto will give them something to useful to feed that need.

    The question that isn’t being asked is why do they want to see it so badly? Because they are the only ones who are demanding it to be released.

    1. Is there a defense of the government’s conduct here? I didn’t think so. I am an atheist, and I’d like to see it. Curious how someone became so demented as to do what was done.

      So Svelaz, you good with FGM?

      1. Anonynous,

        “Is there a defense of the government’s conduct here?”

        There is. Preventing violent backlash against group of people who will be targeted by those who see the manifesto as an excuse to attack who they are and justify abuses towards them is a pretty good reason to defend the need to delay or restrict the release of the document. As an atheist surely you would get the gist of that problem.
        What’s the hurry in needing to read? Why does it have to be right now? Could it be because the rage and anger about the incident is still fresh in conservatives minds? They ARE looking for an excuse to justify further denigration and demagogue them. Yes, it’s that obvious.

    2. You protect these nut cases even in death. Youre afraid what we kniw to be the truth. Trans is mentally ill and violent.

        1. He proved your case by using your words to describe a group of people…”nut cases”? You’ve used it SEVERAL times.

    3. It seems to me that killing half a dozen people (including three children) could be construed as a for of persecution. If this had been some sort of Christian terrorist killing trans activists, I think you’d not only acknowledge that, you would trumpet the fact.
      As to your final question, public access to information is a fundamentally good thing. What is truly interesting is why leftists want to conceal is so badly? Because they are the only ones demanding that it stay hidden.

      1. “As to your final question, public access to information is a fundamentally good thing. What is truly interesting is why leftists want to conceal is so badly?”

        It’s not “leftists” who want to conceal it. Do you consider Tennessee police leftist? The FBI? I don’t dispute that public access is a fundamentally good thing, however there is this demand that it be released now. Why? There is this impatience to want to read it, especially conservatives who stand to use it as a cudgel against the trans community and even justify violence and more laws against them.

        “If this had been some sort of Christian terrorist killing trans activists, I think you’d not only acknowledge that, you would trumpet the fact.”

        I wouldn’t be demanding to see a manifesto when the act of killing trans activists would be self explanatory. You wouldn’t need a manifesto to point out that the killing was wrong. The motive would be pretty obvious. Having said that, however would you be demanding that a manifesto be released if there was one? And I mean released immediately?

        It’s pretty clear why manny conservatives and Christian zealots want it to be released. They want an excuse to use it to further the denigration of a group of people. They want to justify the persecution of someone they don’t see as deserving of any kind of dignity or respect. That is not exactly what one would describe as “Christ-like”, right?

        The left is not “demanding it stay hidden” authorities have reason to keep it from the public while there is still animosity and a thirst for vengeance by those who see the trans community as a “threat to children”. Politicians are eager to exploit it while those feelings are fresh and raw. THAT is why they want it released now. There is no reason why it needs to be released immediately. They can release it when those feelings and emotions have subsided enough that the threat of violence against the trans community has diminished enough to avoid the worst of the tendencies of the religious zealots from the right and politicians seeking to score easy points with their already paranoid constituents. They don’t want a perfectly good tragedy go to waste if it would benefit them politically in the short run. Right?

    4. Only a Svelaz would talk about a mass murderer being “persecuted”. This idiot will defend anything just to be different. It is weird.

      1. Hullbobby you dumba$$, If only you could read for comprehension. I was talking about the persecution of others in the transgender community being the result of releasing the manifesto. Sometimes thou art very stupid indeed.

  19. And we are anxious to see a just-in-time (and therefore forgivably ungrammatical explanation) of why tuition payments are a matter of hospitality.

    1. Generally speaking, paying for educational benefits is an act of charity. Don’t see how it is not in this case.

      1. Really it’s what matter(s)’ in education. When distortions to the fundamental requirements to sustain yourself are taught, the course of your life is jeopardized. If you cannot read, do math or understand basic principles of science GOOD LUCK!

  20. Here we go again. Leonard Leo—Chairman of the Federalist Society—arranged for Ginni Thomas to be paid at least $80,000 in fees from an org with business in the Court. He emphasized that the paperwork contain “No mention of Ginni, of course.”
    https://washingtonpost.com/investigations/2023/05/04/leonard-leo-clarence-ginni-thomas-conway/

    Just fake invoices to secretly line the pockets of the wife of a Supreme Court Justice. And invoice fraud is a crime.

    Then there’s yesterday’s news that Harlan Crow was paying expensive tuition for Thomas’s great-nephew, who was raised by Ginni and Clarence “like a son.”

    Will there be any end to the payoffs?

    1. Jonathan is only interested in such corruption if it is somehow implied on Hunter Biden’s laptop. I think at this point we need to see Clarence and Ginni’s laptops.

      1. Reveal – it was no longer Hunter Biden’s laptop after he abandoned it. If the Thomas’s have laptops, they have not been abandoned.

      1. Which she disclosed, UNLIKE Thomas.

        Gorsuch was also paid by the same publisher. Strange that you omit him. /sarc

    3. Anon. – if it was a “pay-off”, what was being paid for?

      1. Edwardmahl,
        There was no pay off . . . unless you consider she did not recuse herself from a case where the publisher was involved.
        So, in a sense, it could be said there was a pay off.

    4. So much for “judges should avoid even the appearance of impropriety.”

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