Jeremy Bentham once said that “lawyers are the only persons in whom ignorance of the law is not punished.” We will see, apparently, in a case in Mississippi. At age 70, Lisa White is looking at a possible stint in prison after allegedly threatening to shoot Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agents.
According to news reports, Lisa White drew attention at a Mississippi store when she went to buy a gun and asked about body armor in September. According to an employee, she allegedly identified herself as a protester and an activist opposed to ICE who were “becoming crazy and wild and that she needed a gun because she was a protester and activist.”
She allegedly told the employee that she was interested in knowing about body armor because if the agents were wearing body armor, she would have to shoot them in the head, shoulder, or leg. When the employee suggested that she was likely to get herself shot, she allegedly replied, “If I have to die, I have to die.”
According to ICE, White is currently being held on federal criminal charges for influencing, impeding, or retaliating against a federal official by threat.
This can be a tough case to prosecute. White can claim that this is protected speech in spouting off against ICE and was not intended as a true threat.
The Supreme Court handed down an opinion in Counterman v. Colorado that addressed an analogous claim under state law where a defendant claimed that postings were not intended as a true threat. The Court held that, in such a case, the State has to prove that the defendant had some subjective understanding of his statements’ threatening nature. However, it allowed for a conviction based on a showing of recklessness.
The majority held that a recklessness standard (showing that a person “consciously disregard[ed] a substantial [and unjustifiable] risk that [his] conduct will cause harm to another), was sufficient for a showing of state of mind, or mens rea.
On the specific federal crime, courts require a showing of specific intent that the defendant acted knowingly and with a specific intent to retaliate against the official for actions connected to federal duties. It is not enough to speak out of anger or passion.
In this case, the threat was not conveyed to the alleged targets but to a third person. As such, White could argue it was a political or sensational statement that was not intended as a true threat. She is due in court in mid-November.
Federal Judge Strikes Down New York Body Armor Ban
A federal judge this past week overturned New York state’s ban on the sale and purchase of body armor, saying it violated the Constitution’s Second Amendment.
By: Jack Phillips – Breaking News Reporter – via The Epoch Times ~ 10/26/2026
https://www.theepochtimes.com/us/federal-judge-strikes-down-new-york-body-armor-ban-6108911
Alt.: https://www.zerohedge.com/political/federal-judge-strikes-down-new-york-body-armor-ban
Went. To. Buy. A. Gun. There it is. These are the same people who pee themselves about the supposed January 6 “insurrection” while they happily plot a true violent insurrection against federal law enforcement agents.
Just charge her with conspiring to harm ICE agents.
She went to a gun store to buy a gun and body armor and to learn how to get arround body armor and the told those in the store she intended to shoot ICE agents.
I think her statements are protected under 1A – because she did not convey a threat to ICE agents.
But they are evidence of intent to actually harm ICE agents.
Her intent is to fire back if ICE fires at a protest. How many times have people been shot when there was evidence of prior behavior? If only…
Waiting for step three? ICE sees a weapon they’ll fire. She’s dead? LE may have saved her life.
LC, I’m afraid I may harm the children?
“Her intent is to fire back if ICE fires at a protest.”
She did not say that. As Turley reported this she intended to shoot ICE agents and wanted to know how to do so effectively.
“How many times have people been shot when there was evidence of prior behavior?”
Prior behavior is only relevant with respect to the Agent shooting Her if the Agent knows about the prior behavior.
“ICE sees a weapon they’ll fire.”
Alone not sufficient – There has to be some evidence the weapons is going to be used.
Her intent is to fire back if ICE fires at a protest. How many times have people been shot when there was evidence of prior behavior? If only…
Waiting for step three? ICE sees a weapon they’ll fire. She’s dead?
Democrat Mississippi Lawyer Charged with Criminal Threat Against ICE Officers
There, fixed it. Jonathan Turley’s omission of the vital fact that lawyer Lisa White is a Democrat renders his article meaningless. Without the “Democrat” in the article, which should be mentioned at every opportunity, the article is enitrely misleading.
But with the “Democrat” title added to Lisa White’s description, the reader is now fully informed as to what exactly will happen to Lisa White. With description that Lisa White is a Democrat, the reader is able to immediately determine that her case will magically be brought before a Far Leftist Judge. And, consequently, the reader immediatly knows that Lisa White will face no consequences for her crime and her crime will be swept underneath the proverbial rug.
For WOK, only
Iran concealed the existence of their “secret nuclear weapons archive.” Once exposed, Iran allowed the IAEA access to its “undeclared nuclear sites” where tests performed by the IAEA proved the existence of MUF. However, “by that time the containers had been moved and the area ‘sanitized’.” The IAEA have an open investigation into this matter. In 2020 Iran refused to cooperate with inspectors sent by the IAEA to investigate material unaccounted for based upon the IAEA’s discovery of a spike in Iran’s nuclear-fuel stockpile, far above the levels permitted under the JCPOA.
I was struck by the statement, “she allegedly identified herself as a protester and an activist opposed to ICE who were “becoming crazy and wild and that she needed a gun because she was a protester and activist.”” It is more than ironic that here is a woman alleging that ICE agents were “becoming crazy and wild” so her solution was to in turn “become crazy and wild”.
That’s what I meant when I said earlier that liberal white women tend to go a little cuckoo when they get old.
liberal white women tend to go a little cuckoo when they
get old…don’t get laid
It’s like when Hitler put German Jews in concentration camps so Roosevelt put Japanese-Americans in internment camps.
Saying those things to a grocery checkout clerk could plausibly be defended as free speech since there is no action by purchase that could show intent. But at a gun store where she could purchase material that could be used to carry out that threat seems much less defensible IMHO.
I have studied “criminal threat” cases in deep detail. To get a win, the state usually relies on leverage not evidence. Meaning, the defendant chickening out and taking a plea deal, not going to trial, and then not fighting it on appeal. The range of protected free speech for violent tough talk is incredibly broad. This case is a no brainer, the judge should dismiss it Demurrer, Motion to Dismiss for Failure to State an Offense, whatever you want to call it.
I voted for Trump thrice but the actions of ICE are scurrilous and excessive. markwayne mullins will be impeached along with Kegsbreath and the Orange Man himself. it’s coming
Nobody believes you voted for Trump even once. Your silly, stupid descriptions are typical of left-wing loony morons low-IQ dunces, which is what you are.
I have never voted for Trump (or Biden) even once. .. it will be a cold day in hell before I ever do.
A gun would not help this activists/protesting lawyer.. . although she has every right to fear ICE.
*ICE shot Alex Pretti in the back .. . and he wasn’t even protesting.
Videos from deadly Minneapolis shooting of Alex Pretti appear to contradict government statements
ICE shot Pretti in the back after taking his gun from him as punishment for helping a woman ICE had shoved to the ground back to her feet.
ive threatened nazis like you hundredz of times online and never got indicted for it.
Anon @334, how do you know that you speak for everyone? I am a practicing lawyer which is why I know about Watts v US and Brandenberg v Ohio. This persecution would fail under either one. You are full of ad hominems which reveals your own flawed thinking. And in fact I could care less about what you believe, I merely state that I voted for Trump 3 times and if he was on the ballot this time, as he recently said, well sorry Orange Man but he didn’t get my vote the fourth time. I am glad I woke up to this corrupt, Israeli sycophant and his gang of cretins, even if it was late. I am sorry some of my more diehard friends don’t get it yet. Maybe if ICE keeps up shooting unarmed and innocent people, erroneously deporting people iwth green cards, etc, it will have some effect. Maybe $10 diesel because of forever wars that he promises to end and avoid, maybe that will make some wake up. Maybe some are just mesmerized by his charm, however faded it may be. Maybe some are afraid of the See See Pee and the commie democrats, etc. All these remain to be seen but I think after the midterms we will see that quitea few former Trump voters hopped off the Trump train. LETS STAY TUNED AND FIND OUT
https://www.justice.gov/archives/jm/criminal-resource-manual-1072-special-considerations-proving-threat
True, most people report death threats to law enforcement whether in jest, hyperbole or not.
White intends fire back if fired upon. ICE is law enforcement.
*to
Every “I voted for Trump 3 times” reveals a Dem
I just voted straight ticket Democrat for this election, and never did it before my whole life. And I was born when Nixon was president. Nixon was a far better POTUS than Trump.
Donald Trump used to be a Democrat, so did numerous of his cabinet. What’s your point, genius? Americans are allowed to change our minds whether Orange Man likes it or not
“I have studied “criminal threat” cases in deep detail.”
It does not appear you have – lots of people are in prison for criminal threats – it is a part of a significant portion of the appeals cases my wife sees as a Public defender.
Personally I think that far too many people are convicted of protected speech – but that is not how the courts see things.
Except for very limited aspects plea bargains are not apealable.
Anything you agreed to in a plea bargain is not apealable.
The most comon appeal in a plea bargain is a sentencing apeal – as DA’s can agree to a sentencing recomendation – but judges typically have unilateral power to sentence regardless of any deal.
“To get a win, the state usually relies on leverage not evidence.”
That is true of 90% of all criminal cases.
” Meaning, the defendant chickening out and taking a plea deal, not going to trial, and then not fighting it on appeal.”
Again if you agree to a plea bargain at most there is a sentencing appeal.
While the odds are different in different locales – in my community – if you are guilty – you should take the plea deal. You are going to get convictedand the sentence will be far worse if you go to trial.
Unfortunately if you are innocent – you probably should take the plea deal – – you are still going to lose and receive a worse sentence.
In many crimes you also do not qualify for early release unless you admit to the crime.
“This case is a no brainer, the judge should dismiss it Demurrer, Motion to Dismiss for Failure to State an Offense, whatever you want to call it.”
There are two issues here specific to a criminal threat charge.
The first is the threat was not conveyed to the target of the threat
The 2nd is that while the threat is NOT clearly a threat to use a firearm for self defense against ICE
It is also not clearly a threat to initiate violence against ICE.
Personally I do not think this is enough for a case based purely on speech.
But they can charge here with conspiracy to murder or assault ICE officers and the speech and the gun purchases are admissible and there is no first amendment issue.
“I voted for Trump thrice but the actions of ICE are scurrilous and excessive. “
Sorry – do not buy that.
Trump voters knew EXACTLY what they were getting.
Not only that – but contra the claims of left wing nuts – the left has LOST the issue.
Harvards poll on ICE and deportations had support RISE 3pts from 2025 – 2026.
A majority of americans want EVERY illegal immigrant deported.
A super majority want criminals. those accused opf crimes. those who are not gainfully employed or who are receiving government benefits deported. The lefts efforts to make a national issue of ICE have failed – it is a usefull issue when appealing to their far left base – but not to moderates
“markwayne mullins will be impeached along with Kegsbreath and the Orange Man himself. it’s coming”
Probably – and nothing more will happen. Democrats have made impeachment political and therefore meaningless.
I have no doubt that Democrats will engage in mass impeachments if they take the house.
But absent a claim that is not political they are just shooting themselves.
What are you going to impeach Mullins for ? Enforcing US immigration law ?
Your feelings about how ICE conducts arrests ?
If you want impeachments to not NEGATIVELY impact democrats – you need to impeach for a reason that nearly everyone understands and accpets as a crime.
The Trump admin is going after Ilhan Omar. If they PROVE she committed an actual crime that most people understand as a crime – Omar is toast.
If the case turns out to be weak – Republicans will be viewed as weaponizing DOJ.
The same is true of democrats and impeachment. If the basis is views as not substantive – doing so will harm democrats.
The prosecutions of Trump after 2020 and the impeachments of Trump were not viewed as substanative – they hurt democrats.
It is unlikely you have a wife.
No immigrants are getting public assistance. The vast majority of those picked up are targeted because they have made their address known to immigration, pay State and Federal taxes, and send their children to the public schools their taxes pay for. The infractions they are most known for are the same traffic tickets that citizens get. ICE does not report on those who have committed violent crimes or murders – they are dangerous people which ICE would rather not risk arresting.
The question about any rise in support of ICE brutality is more likely because there is an increase in the number of people willing to say so and be openly bigoted racists than that support actually changed.
John say, I forced myself to read your usual long rambling posts because I know that you are a sincere commenter here if a sometimes tiresome liberterian one.
It would appear that your comments are not really all that contradictory of mine as it regards the instant case lacking strong merits, so I will ignore your dissenting tone
I did vote for Trump 3 times but its really gone too far. I have also exposure to immigration law practice and what they have done at USCIS to arrogantly and presumptuously veto existing laws is just far too much. I didn’t like it when Obama made up DACA and didnt follow the APA but at least that was vaguely compassionate. What these knuckle draggers are doing is definitely not compassionate and certainly flaunts not only the APA but core elements of separation of powers. I’ll expand on that a little. The executive does not make law he implements it. Congress makes law. of course we understand there is such a thing as an enabling law whcih confers some “Agency” on an “Agency” to make up rules. That is where the APA comes in. But then the “rules” and new policies, can’t just CANCEL existing law– which is what they have been doing with asylum cases, among others.
I had no problem with the first term’s public charge rules, or how they are pushing public charge now even harder. I have a problem with: -meritless denaturalization cases which have increased dramatically -cancelling legit green cards, -deporting Americans (yes it’s happened at least once if not more) -shooting innocent Americans – beating up innocent Americans -detaining innocent Americans and interrogating them on the streets like common criminals – denying due process to anyone– that ‘s a long story but we are well into that range now….. I could go on but it gets technical
And I did vote for Trump 3 times, I even gave him money like a sucker and went to Republican events, all of which I deeply regret now, total embarrassment to normal people who were never part of the cult
And by the way. Why does USCIS take some of these new policy directions? Well, I’ll explain it quite simply. There are still probably MILLIONS of illegal immigrants in the USA who are basically under fake IDs or hiding out in enclaves as part of underground economy or some other situation that makes them physically unreachable by ICE which mostly is just harassing motorists now. SO, USCIS which wants to help ICE pump up their overblown figures, has taken wide swaths of PAPERED, LEGAL IMMIGRANTS and via agency magic, making them into DEPORATABLES.
Then they do scurrilous things like arrest people at their green card interviews, deport, and add that to their hill of beans figures. This is not justice, this is not due process, this is the worst kind of agency tyranny, and for you racists who think it’s just aimed at the coloreds, sorry, but they apply the same tyranny to white Europeans whenever they can, too, in a sort of color-blind tyranny that could care less if whitey finally figures out that TRUMP IS NOT HIS FRIEND.
RN the smartest thing a white racist could actually do today to protect his own interests, is show some solidarity with everyone else and VOTE DEMOCRAT. Right now the only people making out well are the AI tech bros, and the Israeli lobbyists and tools like Jared Kushner, an ugly, sickeningly corrupt traitor to American interests. Next thing we know there will be a monument to Jonathan Pollard erected in DC in a further insult to our people.
And by the way, Richard Spencer, the “alt right” figurehead who had literally hailed Trump, in 16, voted for Biden the second time. I used to think Richard was a dunce. I guess maybe I was the dunce!
It appears that attorney Lisa White, likely retired, lists as contact (i.e. “Law Office of Lisa C. White”) in Diamondhead, MS, but the Mississippi Bar Association does not show her as ever being registered in that state (understood that she does not practice in MS, just resides in Mississippi).
She was/is a sole practitioner personal injury/plaintiffs’ lawyer who is/was open to accepting cases in a wide range of areas/disciplines. Broward County (FL) is a very diverse county wherein Whites (race, not surname) are a minority (about a third) along with Blacks and Hispanics. Accordingly (based on the nature of this case), I expected to find that she would show practice in the area of Immigration, but I do not see that listed. https://www.floridabar.org/directories/find-mbr/profile/?num=64920
(connection to Broward County, FL)
https://floridalegal.guide/profiles/profile-lisa-c-white.html
pbinca says,
So Congress wrote a law protecting federal officer from threats related to carrying out their duties, but not for the rest of us while carrying out ours? Equal protection under the law? 14th Amendment?
It’s not a bad question, but the answer requires understanding a nuance of the constitutional system. The “rest of us” are protected by state-level criminal laws, including laws against terroristic threats. Those laws fall under the legislative powers of states (a/k/a police powers), which the states never gave up when they agreed to give up some powers in order to join the union. OTOH, Congress does not have unenumerated police powers like the states. For example, there is no federal law against murder in general – that is a state level issue. But Congress can make laws needed for the federal government to function.
Old Man, Carpe diem and J poole Que are all ESTOVIR.
This bogus discussion is typical of Estovir’s puppet show. Readers are deceived into thinking a real conversation is taking place.
If my neighbor said that about me and bought a gun for that purpose? I would just laugh it off. . . . . Or would I ??????
ANON is a PSYCHO MORON
One thing for sure this gal/guy Estovir has certainly set up a home in your head! Oh I know what you’re doing to reply: “I’m Estovir 😂
I’m a very old fashioned robot made back in the day of the Lotus. ☺
RAther than spraying the blog with nonsense ad hominem – do you have an argument ?
Is there a specific error that OMFK made in his post ?
He is pretty much spot on.
Ordinary people are protected from threats by state laws.
The federal govenrment does not have the general police power necescary to pass a general threat law.
But ICE and immigration are even in the most narrowly read version of the constitution legitimate powers of the federal govenrment, and congress can pass laws to protect agents from threats.
A gun and body armor with statement that she’s an activist and protester regarding anti- ICE activity. Protesters are armed and think if fired upon, fire back. Should the gunshop have sold the gun to such? Is there a wait period? Was law enforcement and FBI notified before release of the weapon? She wasn’t purchasing groceries.
Psych eval investigation perhaps before sale?
beautiful weather…
“shall not be infringed.”
She should be lauded for her patriotic understanding of the reason for the Second Amendment.
After reading the first couple paragraphs, if the gun store employee notified law enforcement of the terroristic threats made by this old cow, my hats off to you. The employee should also receive a reward for their actions, if they did contact authorities. I.C.E agents have been made to be the villains while the true villain are the politicians who ignore the laws regarding illegal immigration. They praise demonstrators who physically interfere with apprehensions of the illegal criminal. When the violent protesters get themselves injured they blame law enforcement. Our nation is suffering from problems created by President “fair share” as well as the Biden administration. If you put both of them together they couldn’t make one Bill Clinton, why they couldn’t even get into his cigar humidor.
Perhaps the “old cow” was a marksman in the army at age 40?
In my experience, when liberal white women get old, they tend to go a little cuckoo. I guess that’s true even of lawyers.
So what does she say her intent was in making this announcement in a gun store she was actively shoppping at for weapons? Is it any more or less of a threat than posting such comments on social media? Seems one step closer to a show of intent and at very least should get her put on a “watch list” kept by federal & local authorities so they can be on lookout for her at publicly held protests.
In Mississippi locals have a tendency to say too much. They simply presume they’re speaking to friendly, like-minded folks. That’s part of Mississippi’s charm, in fact.
Yeah it’s very charming when someone says they need a gun to shoot someone in the head.
ICE shot Sandra Good in the face at point blank range. And no one’s been held accountable!!
That was charming of ICE. And it was charming of her to accelerate and try to run them over.
That’s a lie!! Good did not try to run over that ICE agent. That agent jumped in front of the car, then quickly side-stepped (to shoot Good up close).
The video is public. No amount of exclamation points by you can change the video’s contents. I’ve seen it many times. I’m not saying the agent was justified in his actions, because it seemed to me that by then the immediate danger had passed. But I clearly saw what Good did before that. And as I say, both parties acted in a very charming way.
Oldman,
I agree with you. And would add that it is possible that the officer was concerned not only for his safety but also for the safety of others who might find themselves in front of an accelerating vehicle.
Young, no law enforcement agency trains their agents to jump in front of moving vehicles. And no law enforcement agency expects officers do that (even when suspects are making a run).
Watch the video again. When the agent moved in front of the vehicle, it was not moving, then it moved toward him, accelerating while at the same time turning right, and the corner of the vehicle appears to have hit the agent.
The officers’ instructions didn’t conflict: “Get out of the car.” The wife said the opposite: “Drive, baby, drive.”
Estovir, if you feel the need to keep changing names, then you’re not an honest broker with regards to discussions.
The agent ignored the ICE policy to never step in front of a vehicle. Ever. In fact she was being ordered to leave by another ICE agent at the time. You are clearly watching some other video.
ATS the agent walked slowly counter clockwise arround the car. He did not “jump” in front of the car, and had Goode waited a few seconds longer – the agent would not have been in front of the car.
Regardless the agent walked slowly around 270 degress of the car – Good swa him through much of that.
She KNEW he was there
While it is mpossible to know if she intended to harm the agent – there is zero doubt that she knew he was in front of the car when SHE choose to accelerate.
Maybe she was trying to flee, maybe she was trying to harm him. Maybe her foot slipped on the accelerator.
None of that matters – The officer was threatened by the movement of a 5000lb SUV and responded appropriately.
Yes some of the shots fired at Good were from the side – but his legs were still infront of the vehicle – and she actually struck him.
Regardless once Good accelerated into him – the rest is irrelevant.
Good could have legitimately bee shot by another officer.
If the officer was threatened he would have been killed. He wasn’t even brushed by the car.
Shootings like that tend to happen when law enforcement feels threatened. FAFO
I feel threatened all the time, how about I go shoot some cops in return?
If someone is accelerating a 5000lb SUV at you – then yes.
There is, somewhere near you, a 5000lb SUV aimed directly at you and accelerating hundreds of times a day.
Get a grip and tell Sergei to bring you more vodka to the bunker for later.
I am not sure as to how what she did influenced, impeded or retaliated against an ICE officer. That said, the gun shop owner did the right thing. See something, say something etc.
Could be interpreted as communicating a threat.
please read brandenberg v ohio and watts v US. read turley’s comments about the counterman case. this prosecution will fail.
lots of commenters here just don’t even read the essays. it’s ok because turley doesnt read the comments either LOL
We don’t want your business. Have a nice life. And we mean that most sincerely. Feel free to sue us if you disagree. It’s what you people do.
I don’t think she should have been arrested exactly; perhaps she could have been Baker-acted. Is she an alcoholic? Or is she self-medicating with Adderall or some other drug?