According to Amnesty International, the good people in the Iranian justice system are about to add another outrage from their prehistoric legal system. The group says that two gay men, Tayyeb Karimi and Yazdan, will soon be killed by throwing them off a cliff. The group estimates that 4000 lesbians and gay men have been executed since the Iranian revolution.
In May 2007, six men were sentenced for allegedly stealing the property and abducting two young men, who were later raped.
Tayyeb Karimi and Yazdan will be thrown from the great height while the other received 100 lashes each.
Iran has of course been a world leader in such abuses of gays and lesbians, click here. Indeed, as noted here, it has taken the same harsh hand to women accused of adultery.
For the full story, click here.
I don’t know this for a fact. And I DON’T want to start rumors. But is it true Sharia-type law also considers a man who was raped to be gay and subject to similar treatment?
Sounds like a stupid question, I’m sure. But less stupid than stoning rape victims or throwing people off cliffs
Well, if what Iranian President Ahmedinijad said at Columbia University is true, then these obviously were the *only* two gay men in Iran. (snort)
Stoning ANYONE, for ANY reason is barbaric and inhuman. So is executing anyone for the “crime” (in THEIR minds only) of being gay or lesbian.
While this brutality and inhumanity is typical of these cruel Islamic regimes, I have read some alarming statements from so-called “Christians” (the Fred Phelps variety), which are in sympathy with such cruel and intolerable punishments for anyone who is gay or lesbian as well. Another compelling reason why the U.S. “wall of separation between church and state” must NEVER be torn down.
It seems this is the time for Americans to be very careful to distinguish between the Iranians and the Iranian theocracy and Islam.
The story is detestable to me under any circumstances. What I fear is a continued misunderstanding and use of this term ‘Islamic’ to describe what is driving this insanity. It is offensive, globally.
This barbaric punishment (and the underlying crime has been obscured by the article and reduced to theft and rape) has as much to do with Islam as American activities in Iraq, including Abu Ghraib, have to do with Christianity. Last week I wrote an article about ‘Christo-Fascism’ – a term I’m pretty sure I made up – in order to prove this point, referring to Christian Pastor Hagee’s endorsement of McCain.
This aberration of thought and reason has been crammed into the American lexicon by elements darker than Richard Nixon ever dreamed. We have our own Wrangling ‘Ahmadinejhad’ – or ‘Howdy Doody’ – and our own Theocrats, and own dangerous individuals in our own government that would be quite happy to have their own personal private cliff-side executorium. And we domicile the Mel Gibson’s and the late Jerry Falwells and the Pat Robertsons who predict God’s scorn, and blame Hurricane Katrina on the Gay community …. The United States is a Fundamentalist Theocratic playhouse.
Our casual use of the term ‘Islamic’ is offensive to at least 30% of the world and it was purposely put into common use by the Neo-con architects. Words count a great deal, even if heard in a echo.
Okay, I’ll apologize for the bad choice of wording, since I couldn’t think of any other term at the moment. I’ll be happy to use a more appropriate term, if you can suggest one that would get the point across without being offensive to someone. But using your argument that the term “Islamic” is offensive to some folks, wouldn’t your term “christo-fascistic” be the same to some others? It just seems to me that we’re darned if we do and darned if we don’t. Either way, we’re in trouble.
You’re entirely correct. I used the term (which I later discovered and sadly – that I hadn’t originated)to purposely draw attention to this. Certainly I meant no personal offense to you, but rather to make a more general point – that this offensive language has seeped into our lexicon as being acceptable, and it isn’t.
It also doesn’t accurately describe the bad guys. It is ideologues, bent on world domination and control – some brand it with Islam, Christianity, Judaism and …. that was my point. Not that you did anything wrong individually but rather collectively, we’re better than this. Our bad guys have been using Christianity as their marketing tool – I’m equally incensed.
I realize it’s a bit of a stretch to include my comments on so serious a thread, but I couldn’t help but note yet another instance of this administration’s hypocricy when I read that Sen Obama’s church was being investigated by the IRS because he, the Senator, made a speech from the pulpit. Aren’t these the “Faith-based” Christian zealots who don’t care about the seperation of church and state with their mixing of religion and politics?
Not that I am in any way defending the sentence in this case, but is this case actually about the men being homosexual or is it about theft and the rape of two other young men. The allegations against these men, from the description above, do not appear to involve their sexual orientation, but their conduct.
Of course it is hard to tell in Iran. Yet, either way, the sentence itself is an expression of the primitive de-evolution of the Iranian legal system under the mullahs.
Suffice it to say, we all should be more deliberate in our expressions of outrage, especially when it comes to human rights AND individual freedoms.
Not everyone understands that, for Americans, often times generalizations are simply a way of keeping conversation ‘interesting’.
Having freedom of speech, democracy, and being the most powerful nation in the world etc etc, however, does not necessarily mean everyone knows what the Hell they are saying all the time.
Our own government officials, including our own President, are not well versed on various countries, cultures, religions, and sects.
We can all be real opinionated a**holes, sometimes!
“We can all be real opinionated a**holes, sometimes!”
Truer words were never spoken. Count me guilty as well.
I think it’s fair to say that all of us want to be as respectful when posting as possible, whether here on JT’s blog or anywhere else. Personally, I think we’ve all done a pretty good job of doing this.
My only concern is that all of us becoming too fearful of being opinionated, worrying that ANY word we use when expressing anger or outrage at an injustice will offend someone. As a result, we will start watering down whatever power, passion and conviction in our writing until there’s really no emotion left, in anything we write. Because if that happens, whatever we write will then become meaningless.
I am NOT advocating that we become as offensive as possible. I have too much respect for JT and ALL of you to do anything like that. But as KO said in his book TRUTH & CONSEQUENCES (in one of his “Special Comments”), “it’s NEVER unacceptable to think.” I don’t believe it’s unacceptable or wrong to be opinionated either, even if we make the occasional “misstep” now and then in a choice of words. I hope I am making sense here; it’s getting close to “crash time” for me. Good night, everyone.
We can all be real opinionated a**holes, sometimes AND
sometimes, unwittingly, we just come across that way
- was my point…
well, i’m just a kid and i’m not an expert in islam or america or christianity but what i do know is that although the holy Bible does condemn homosexuality, it also includes murder in the thou-shalt-not’s. in fact the Bible even says that even hating somebody in your heart without doing them any physical harm is equivalent to murder… so… homosexuality is a sin, but Jesus never condemned anyone for their sins- He was the only person who saved a prostitute from overzealous and self righteous moral policemen of his time.
its not Chritianity which is at fault, or Jesus who is to blame for human error and pride in His followers… please don’t judge the wrong person… I’m not saying that i’ll never talk to a homosexual jsut cause i think its wrong. my roommate and close friend n school was a lesbian, and my cousin brother is also a homosexual. i still love both of them but that doesn’t mean i’m going to agree with their points of view because it says so clearly in the Bible that it is wrong- no two ways about it. in spite of agreeing with the iranian judicail system that homosexuality is a sin, i strongly feel feel that the punishment metted out to these two men in iran is cruel and unjust- life is precious and beautiful gift no matter the social class, religion, or sexual orientation.
It’s hard to understand how people, intelligent people presumably, can state that because a book written by someone two thousand years ago says something, it’s a closed case. There’s no real evidence to prove that any of these “books” are authoritative written by a supreme being or a man who walked on water and turned water into wine … or an uneducated, illiterate Arab.
Reason should tell us that in a world where there are two extremes of everything (and often more), it shouldn’t be unusual to find some men and women whose sexual preferences are different from those of us who presume to be normal.
While I can’t understand it, I’m not surprised homosexuality exists and I doubt very much whether those who are homosexuals have any real choice about it. We need a little more compassion.
Wasn’t it one of the abovementioned “books” that said, “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone”.?
This is in response to the messages posted by PRINGWIL above. When you say:
“i still love both of them but that doesn’t mean i’m going to agree with their points of view because it says so clearly in the Bible that it is wrong- no two ways about it”
this is where your reasoning is flawed. Being gay is not a “point of view” that you can disagree with, such as one’s political affiliation. It is not a switch that exists in the brains of all people, which only some people choose to flip. It is innate, and in that way, just as natural as a cleft chin or a widow’s peak. Think about how, as a straight person, your feelings of attraction for the opposite sex manifested at an early age in what were, at the time, unintelligible ways, and then later developed into something so clear and powerful that your mind could no longer ignore it even though it tried. This is important to remember, because most gay youths HAVE tried to ignore this feeling, this innate sense of self that they have carried with them since birth. They have done so because of the virulent scorn that societies all across the world have directed towards them, and I would wager that gay men in Iran bear the burden of this consternation heavier than most. I write this because it is important for you and others who share your reasoning to understand that when gay people are killed as a matter of law, they are not being punished for their point of view. The only decision they are making is the choice to be the people they were born to be, in such a way that hurts no one else and grants them what should be an unalienable right for all human beings – the right to love, and be loved in return. I hope this makes you reconsider your feelings towards those two people in your life who you say you love – that is, of course, if you share my view that love is the whole-hearted acceptance and appreciation of someone else’s being. I hope, for the sake of your two friends, that you do.
Oh…that sounds just like Bangor, Maine.
Except in Bangor, they throw the gay men off bridges. And also – 2 men who killed this gay man:
http://portsmouthnhemployment.com/news/06202006/maine/108334.htm
…DID happen 2 get 2 years in jail before they were released.
And in 2006 a gay man was murdered UNDER a bridge in Bangor, Maine. They were apparently too lazy to carry him to the top of the bridge, so they just doused him with gasoline and set him on fire.
Funny, you can’t even Google that up anymore.(It was only a homeless gay guy, you know…)
Before people start poo-poo-ing other countries, I think they ought to take a good look at what goes on right in their own nasty back yards.
Maybe I am wrong, but didn’t the men rape another man? Aren’t they being punished for rape? I think it is extreme, but rape should be a crime everywhere. If their sentence is especially hard because of their homosexuality, now that is wrong. By the way, I am not saying that the Iranian system of punishment is right. But I do think that if one commits a crime, they should pay for their crime.
Also, having traveled outside of the US (as in all of the other continents and more than 30 countries) I can say that I have heard more than one elected official in a non-western nation say to me personally that there were no homosexuals in his/her country. I had to laugh; I had two women attempt to pick me up at a bar (and I am a woman) the night before one of the presentations. Most of the world is not as open and accepting about homosexuality as Western Europe and the United States.
Yes, the two men were convicted of rape.
Those 2 men who were killed in Bangor, Maine were innocent of everything except being gay.
I guess that means that Iran is more democratic than Bangor, Maine….;-)
I think they should abolish death penalty
it is as wrong as being gay . all of this is hapening
becouse people belive their grandpa was a monkey
so you can behave like an animal.
people, should start listening to the other side of scientist who expose evolution and then realise
that nothing canot come from nothing
i was beeten and raped by a gay man when i was at a mentale hospitle in the usa ……i told the police and thay dident do eney thing…,,,
good work iran