HAPPY Pi DAY!!!

140px-pi-symbolsvgIt was only recently that many of us put away our Square Root Day decorations. Yet, it is now time to celebrate Pi day in all of its irrational glory. The irrational number is rounded off to 3.14, making March 14th the special day for all math geeks — and circle circumference fanatics.

Many people loath Pi Day due to the pressure of finding that special gift to celebrate the ratio of the circumference of a circle to its diameter. Most pies are ideal for the parties but stores have destroyed the holiday by making it too commercial. Kids just want to grab their circular gifts without any thought of the true meaning of Pi Day.

This year, Congress voted 391-10 vote to designate today as the official Pi Day for the first time in history. Obviously the anti-Pi lobby was able to snare ten members who continue their anti-circumferencial and anti-Euclidean politics. After all, Indiana once tried to declare Pi as 3.2 in 1897. This was done despite the fact that Pi is actually 3.14159.

The anti-Pi coalition includes Jason Chaffetz (R, Utah), Jeff Flake (R., Az.), Dean Heller (R. Montana), Timothy Johnson (R., Ill.); Jeff Miller (R., Fl.); Randy Neugebauer (R., TX). Ron Paul (R., TX), Ted Poe (R. TX), Bill Shuster (R., Pa.) and Mike Pence (R., Ind.). It is ironic that the opposition is entirely made up of Republicans despite the practical alliance with Clintonian Triangulation politics.

Ron Paul’s work for the anti-Pi forces may be an expression of a libertarian disgust with state-sponsored mathematics.

The stalwart Pi-man is Rep. Brian Baird (D-Wash) proudly admits that he is “kind of geeked up about it and that he has “been fascinated by pi since I was a kid. It blows my mind. It’s lovely. The fact that it’s sort of this infinite number. I just think it’s this magical thing. … There’s a real beauty to mathematics.” What is really amazing is that Baird not only was able to get a date in High School but marry a real, non-inflatable woman.

Notably, March 14th is also Albert Einstein — making this day of unspeakable joy for the geek class.

Yet, Rep. John P. Murtha (D-Pa.) insists that this was a bait-and switch: “I thought I was voting for p-i-e.”

Pi party animals can be a bit out of control today with Pi eating contests and Pi in the Face attacks. Many can be seen in alleys and science ghettos calculating Pi, which has been calculated to over 1 trillion digits past the decimal. Do not get sucked into such calculations, which have been known to turn math fanatics into virtual calculating vombies. “High on Pi” is a common police call.

“Pi eaters” are often found near libraries and science labs. They should not be approached while calculating.

For eligible men and women, be particularly careful about math geeks inviting you up to “see my Euclidean space.”

For the full story, click here.

73 thoughts on “HAPPY Pi DAY!!!

  1. Here’s an oldie in honor of the occasion:

    Mathematician: Pi r squared

    Baker: No! Pie are round, cakes are square!

  2. This is a hilarious true story of genius gone wrong (well sort of!)

    “Gregory Volfovich Chudnovsky recently built a supercomputer in his apartment from mail-order parts. Gregory Chudnovsky is a number theorist. His apartment is situated near the top floor of a run-down building on the West Side of Manhattan, in a neighborhood near Columbia University. Not long ago, a human corpse was found dumped at the end of the block. The world’s most powerful supercomputers include the Cray Y-MP C90, the Thinking Machines CM-5, the Hitachi S-820/80, the nCube, the Fujitsu parallel machine, the Kendall Square Research parallel machine, the nec SX-3, the Touchstone Delta, and Gregory Chudnovsky’s apartment. The apartment seems to be a kind of container for the supercomputer at least as much as it is a container for people.

    Gregory Chudnovsky’s partner in the design and construction of the supercomputer was his older brother, David Volfovich Chudnovsky, who is also a mathematician, and who lives five blocks away from Gregory. The Chudnovsky brothers call their machine m zero. It occupies the former living room of Gregory’s apartment, and its tentacles reach into other rooms. The brothers claim that m zero is a “true, general-purpose supercomputer,” and that it is as fast and powerful as a somewhat older Cray Y-MP, but it is not as fast as the latest of the Y-MP machines, the C90, an advanced supercomputer made by Cray Research. A Cray Y-MP C90 costs more than thirty million dollars. It is a black monolith, seven feet tall and eight feet across, in the shape of a squat cylinder, and is cooled by liquid freon. So far, the brothers have spent around seventy thousand dollars on parts for their supercomputer, and much of the money has come out of their wives’ pockets.”

    http://www.newyorker.com/archive/1992/03/02/1992_03_02_036_TNY_CARDS_000362534

  3. MR. TURLEY YOU LOOKED ABSOLUTELY RAVISHIN ON MACHAEL MADDOWS SHOW EXCEPT YOU NEED TO LOSE SOME WEIGHT, GET RID OF THE GRAY HAIR (IT MAKES YOU LOOK LIKE A BUSH SUPPORTER) AND GET AN EARRING, MAYBE EVEN A NOSE PIN.

    A TATTOO WOULDN’T HURT WITH OUR AUDIENCE EITHER! IN FACT, WEAR SHORT SLEEVES SO THEY CAN SEE IT!

    WONDERBUS!

  4. That caps lock key works both ways, troll. Being loud doesn’t distract from your weak personal attacks. I’d expect your lot to have realized by now the ad hominem does not work here, but that’d be expecting you to be using logic and the evidence of how people who use this as their sole tactic or preferred position in retreat on this site get REPEATEDLY trashed. Go back to copy & pasting. It’s more effective and just as obnoxious. For propagandists, you show a remarkable lack of understanding of the tools you misuse. You’ll never win the war with weak tactics that never seem to address the issues or the logic of analysis. Which is a good thing. For We the People. Competence is a wonderful thing. I suggest you acquire some. That’s not a personal attack, but rather a critique of your methodology.

  5. This is very interesting

    A few years after I was born, my Dad met a stranger who was new to our small Texas town. From the beginning, Dad was fascinated with this enchanting newcomer and soon invited him to live with our family. The stranger was quickly accepted and was around from then on.

    As I grew up, I never ques tioned his place in my family. In my young mind, he had a special niche. My parents were complementary instructors: Mom taught me good from evil, and Dad taught me to obey. But the stranger…he was our storyteller. He would keep us spellbound for hours on end with adventures, mysteries and comedies.

    If I wanted to know anything about politics, history or science, he always knew the answers about the past, understood the present and even seemed able to predict the future! He took my family to the first major league ball game. He made me laugh, and he made me cry. The stranger never stopped
    Talking, but Dad didn’t seem to mind.

    Sometimes, Mom would get up quietly while the rest of us were shushing each other to listen to what he had to say, and she would go to the kitchen for peace and quiet. (I wonder now if she ever prayed for the stra nger to leave.)

    Dad ruled our household with certain moral convictions, but the stranger never felt obligated to honor them. Profanity, for example, was not allowed in our home… Not from us, our friends or any visitors. Our longtime visitor, however, got away with four-letter words that burned my ears and made my dad squirm and my mother blush. My Dad didn’t permit the liberal use of alcohol. But the stranger encouraged us to try it on a regular Basis. He made cigarettes look cool, cigars manly and pipes distinguished. He talked freely (much too freely!) about sex. His comments were sometimes blatant, sometimes suggestive, and generally embarrassing.

    I now know that my early concepts about relationships were influenced strongly by the stranger. Time after time, he opposed the values of my parents, yet he was seldom rebuked… And NEVER ask ed to leave.

    More than fifty years have passed since the stranger moved in with our family. He has blended right in and is not nearly as fascinating as he was at first. Still, if you could walk into my parents’ den today, you would still find him sitting over in his corner, waiting for someone to listen to him talk and watch him draw his pictures.

    His name?…. ..

    We just call him ‘TV.’

    (Note: This should be required reading for every household in America !)

    He has a wife now….We call her ‘Computer.’

  6. Have you heard of Daniel Tammet?

    “On March 14th 2004 (3/14 in US notation – known as International Pi Day) Daniel set a new British and European record when he recited the number pi from memory to 22,514 decimal places in a time of 5 hours, 9 minutes.”

    http://www.optimnem.co.uk/pi.php

    He did this in his head. He has Asperger syndrome, part of the autism spectrum, usually higher functioning. He sees numbers as colors and shapes. He explains this in his book “Born on a Blue Day.” It’s incredible.

  7. Unfortunately we won’t be celebrating Pi day here in the Fella household, as our member in Congress, Gary Miller, likely missed the party, like he has for 50% of the votes so far this year, and did not forewarn us.

    It’s no fun living in a Republican dominated Congressional district, where your representative, when he bothers to come in to the office, invariably makes the wrong decision, voting along the GOP party line. But I suppose Mr. Miller’s outside business interests are more important than his constituents.

  8. Furthermore, I vote that those Republican politicians deserve a face pieing with a Pork pie for their anti-pi piousness.

    If Pork pies are unavailable, because of adherence to anti-pork legislation (Ha!), then I suggest Rhubarb or Shoofly Pies instead.

  9. Well, pardon me?, your pie-in-the-face recommendation sure bests mine by a methane fresh country mile.

  10. Pi Day? Please, just thinking about Pi day makes me think of high school algebra and that is a very bad memory!!
    It is amazing the the Von Troll family members cannot refrain from their antics even in a thread about Pi day!

  11. just to claripie. though i’m of some german heritage, i’m not one of those nasty trolls. i’ll certainly refrain from commenting if only law scholars are welcome. have a hap-pi day. long live justice.

  12. Gee, I just do not see the craze in Avagadros. The are a yucky green and they taste even yuckier than they look.

  13. Easy error Bob, and we all knew what you meant, but it did open up a thought for my lame joke.

    However, what I am outraged about is there is—as yet—no Avogadro Day, of which you speak, to complement National Square Root and Pi Days. I would like to see a drive to get some real *moles* (molars?) elected to Congress to pass an urgent congressional resolution to establish a National Mole Day in honor of Avogadro. Obama should also find time to put this near the top of his agenda.

    As a former member of my high school Slide Rule Club (yes, I AM that old) and one who made A grades in college chemistry, I want to see the passage of an National Avogadro/Mole Day resolution before I die.

  14. Our beloved ‘DW’ was a pi freak when he was in high school and tried to impress the ladies sweetly with his pi-ness, to little or no avail. Poor DW hardly got a second date in his younger years, to hear him tell it which is still a mystery to me to this day.

    In honor of DW I offer one of my favorite pie recipes:

    MYSTERY PIE

    4 egg whites
    1/2 tsp. cream of tartar
    1 cup sugar
    20 Ritz crackers, crushed
    1 cup nuts, chopped fine

    Beat until stiff but not dry. Add sugar. Beat until sugar is dissolved. Add crackers, crushed fine or graham crackers or saltines 1 c., chopped fine. I use walnuts or pecans.

    Pour mixture into greased pan, 10 inch glass. Bake 30 minutes at 350 degrees. Let cool for 1 to 2 hours. Spread with 4 ounces Cool Whip. Refrigerate until chilled.

  15. I forgot the extract!

    1/1/2 teastpons of vanilla or
    1 teaspoon of almond – which is what I use with the walnuts.

    My apologies.

  16. Can she make a Mystery pie Billy boy, Billy boy,
    Can she make a Mystery pie chamin’ Billy,
    Yes, she can bake a Mystery pie without *extract* of vanilli
    She’s a young thang that cannot leave her Mother

  17. The ‘problem’ I have is that I think and cook like a chef.

    A lot of the stuff I do routinely, at my kitchen counter, is automatic or ‘by feel’. I’m very intuitive and I also know this about myself.

    I do use recipes, as a guide, the first time I cook something new, but after that it’s pretty much ‘mine’ – my own interpretation of the dish.

    I don’t fly by the seat of my pants, even though I ‘know’ how.

    There is usually a strong basis underneath what I do whether it’s within my medical practice, my relationships, my animal’s care, plant care, or in cooking, to name only a few of my passions!

    I didn’t learn everything in school. I continue to teach myself a lot while drawing on the knowledge of others. But I’m very choosy about who those people are, especially these days.

    I trust Barack Obama and I was not a supporter. I voted for him, but I had to get off some ‘stuff’ to do it.

    And I’m not sorry – so far.

  18. Thingum Bob, are you sitting down?

    http://www.delish.com/recipefinder/chicken-mole-tostadas-rbk1207

    Chicken Mole Tostadas

    Nutritional Information
    (per serving)
    Calories 54
    Total Fat 3g
    Saturated Fat —
    Cholesterol —
    Sodium —
    Total Carbohydrate 3g
    Dietary Fiber —
    Sugars —
    Protein 3g
    Calcium —
    Chicken Mole Tostadas

    Yields: 48 tostadas

    Total Time: 24 min

    Prep Time: 20 min

    Cook Time: 4 min

    Ingredients
    U.S. Metric Conversion chart

    * 1 cup(s) reduced-sodium chicken broth
    * 1/3 cup(s) pipiân (pumpkin seed sauce) or mole sauce from Doña Maria Mexican Condiment (8.25-oz jar)
    * 3 cup(s) cooked, shredded chicken
    * 1/2 cup(s) (plus whole leaves for garnish) chopped cilantro
    * 1/4 cup(s) minced red onion
    * 3 tablespoon(s) lime juice
    * 48 restaurant-style tortilla chips
    * Avocado Cream (recipe follows)

    Directions

    * 1. Whisk broth and pipiân in a small saucepan until blended; heat over medium heat until mixture is hot. Remove from heat.
    * 2. Place chicken in a large bowl and toss with pipiân, cilantro, onion, and lime juice.
    * 3. Arrange tortilla chips on a platter. Top each chip with 1 tablespoon of the chicken mole and 1/4 teaspoon Avocado Cream. Garnish with a cilantro leaf.

    * 4. AVOCADO Cream:

    Scoop the flesh of 1 ripe Hass avocado into a small bowl and mash until smooth. Stir in 1 tablespoon each mayonnaise and fresh lime juice, and 1/4 teaspoons each salt and pepper..

  19. Bob, Esq.,

    In typical lawyering meddlin’ fashion, you done opened up a nerds’ can of worms by your learned investigation. Now there are 2 days that we must urgently petition the U.S. Congress to pass congressional resolutions for: Avogadro/Mole Day and now Square Root Day. I always assumed SQR R Day was a real holiday decreed by a resolution granting National Holiday status. However, only National Pi Day is so decreed. Therefore, Mole Day and Square Root Day are both unofficial holidays and cannot be granted National status without our revered and beloved congresspersons’ resolution.

    Since you are an esteemed attorney with judicial clout, I request that you draft up a petition of the Congress to initiate this vitally important legislation. Many of us older folks might not live long enough to be free at last for this grave injustice and our restless souls with forevermore linger within the Avogadrolean/Mole/Square Root Day Purgatories.

  20. The magical mystery pie is coming to take you away,
    Coming to take you away.
    The magical mystery pie is dying to take you away,
    Dying to take you away, take you today …

  21. I can’t get over the anti-pi coalition of republican politicians. How can they deny so many math geeks the pleasure of Pi Day? I guess like everything else that doesn’t profit them directly, they think Pi is pork.

  22. Well Sir, Mespo, I appreciate that comment, especially from such an intelligent, accomplished, and witty man. Furthermore, being surrounded by such astute persons within this blawg—and especially regarding our esteemed host—is bound to elicit, at least occasionally, a somewhat cogent comment from me.

    Pardon me?: Thanks for the back and forth on this fun topic and noticing my observation. I am a calligrapher, so I notice scripts and symbolic associations.

    Rafflaw’s earlier troll comment was not a reference to you, but rather regarding “rachow’s” junk. That cowardly post was the only one that marred this neat thread.

  23. But Pi has not departed the building on this 14th day of March, 2009, in the Pacific Daylight Time Zone because we still have 52 precious minutes to continue our celebration out West and I am still preparing to sing “Auld Lang Syne” if I can manage to choke back the tears.

  24. FFLEO,

    Did you see the film, “Hero”? It shows a beautiful depiction of calligraphy that I think you would like. It’s an incredible film. It shows the visual representation of people becomming conscience of the truth. It was amazing to see thought put forth in a deep, striking stunning, visual manner.

  25. I support a new holiday in honor of the imaginary number italic i, the square root of minus one.

    As an imaginary holiday, it would take place on an imaginary date like the 31st of September, April, May or November.

    Harvey would be there, with Alice and the Queen, and the entire cast of Watchmen.

    Party on!

  26. Patty,

    Looks great; would look even better if I knew how to cook.

    FFLEO,

    I’d be happy if just half the population would take the time to comprehend Q=MCΔT

    As to why? More on that later.

  27. FFLEO:

    nicely done.

    Bobesq:

    Q= ? (?)
    M = ? (mass?)
    C = ? (speed of light?)
    Delta T = ? (change in time?)

    good call on the Mole day.

  28. On “nay” vote came from Utah Congressman Jason Chaffetz, who said “I cannot support Pi Day as just one day. It should go on forever.”

    At least he had a sense of humor about it.

  29. Q = mcΔT

    describes the amount of heat energy (in joules) gained or lost when a given mass M (in grams) of a particular material with specific heat C experiences a given change in temperature ΔT (in degrees C. or K.).

    So, Bob, why is it important for half of us to understand? Or is it just the idea of it meaning being conversant in basic science?

  30. LarryE:

    “Q = mcΔT

    describes the amount of heat energy (in joules) gained or lost when a given mass M (in grams) of a particular material with specific heat C experiences a given change in temperature ΔT (in degrees C. or K.).

    So, Bob, why is it important for half of us to understand?”

    What’s the heat of fusion for steel? And what is required to melt or keep any solid in a liquid or solid/liquid mixed state?

    A sustained source of heat???

    That is an undeniable universal fact of macro-state physics; is it not?

    And yet….

    September 12, 2001-February 2002: Witnesses See Molten Metal in the Remains at Ground Zero

    http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a091201moltenmetal#a091201moltenmetal

    Truth is the agreement between knowledge and its object and it is not subject any sort of “we think you should just leave well enough alone” exception

    Stay In Your Own Movie,

    Bob

  31. LarryE:

    “Q = mcΔT

    describes the amount of heat energy (in joules) gained or lost when a given mass M (in grams) of a particular material with specific heat C experiences a given change in temperature ΔT (in degrees C. or K.).

    So, Bob, why is it important for half of us to understand?”

    What’s the heat of fusion for steel? And as an irrefutable matter of fact, what is required to melt or keep any solid in a liquid or solid/liquid mixed state?

    A sustained source of heat???

    Hmm…

    September 12, 2001-February 2002: Witnesses See Molten Metal in the Remains at Ground Zero

    http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a091201moltenmetal#a091201moltenmetal

    And the source of this sustained source of heat is … ?

    Truth is the agreement between knowledge and its object and it is not subject any sort of “we think you should just leave well enough alone” exception

  32. Bob, Esq.

    When you researched this “sustained source of heat” where and what did you discover? In the words of Larson E. Whipsnade, “Give queenie give.”

  33. Bobesq:

    are you saying the Twin Towers were destroyed by W and the neocons? that is what I infered from the link you sent.

    I dont think I believe that although anything is possible. However there is probably a simpler explanation and that is that the debris acted as a giant blacksmith forge with the wind and its venturi effect through the streets of New York being the bellows and the shear mass of debris being the fuel.

    The twisted girders are easily explainable in that when steel is heated thermal stresses are also applied to the steel members (that is why long bridges have expansion joints) and when they are fixed there is no place for expansion so they start warping. these stresses can be higher than the actual loads that are used in the design. I once saw a burned out building in college and the main support beam was about twice as long as it had been and draped like a ribbon between the 2 supports.

    Also with the mass of debris acting as an insulator it is certainly plausable that temperature levels could have gotten quite hot.

    Anyway just something to think about.

  34. CCD:

    “When you researched this “sustained source of heat” where and what did you discover?”

    Bron98:

    “are you saying the Twin Towers were destroyed by W and the neocons? that is what I infered from the link you sent.”

    I’m saying…

    Ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat

    The burden is upon he who affirms, not upon him how denies.

    And, according to Sir Ockham…

    “Frustra fit per plura quod potest fieri per pauciora”
    [“It is pointless to do with more what can be done with less”].

    Thus, according to Ockham, we ought never to postulate the reality of any entity unless it is logically necessary to do so.

    Bron,

    While your musings are certainly imaginative, they all fail, as a matter of physical impossibility, in generating enough heat to raise the temperature of steel to the heat of fusion; and keep it there for nearly six months–unless you’re willing to dispense with the law of thermal equilibrium.

    Think of it this way Bron:

    “A man’s got to know his limitations.”

    In this analysis, that would include physical limitations (e.g. physical constants).

    CCD,

    I can say that physical evidence of thermite and thermate were found at ground zero.

    http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=steven_e._jones

    http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a1203rjleeinvestigation#a1203rjleeinvestigati

    The entire basis of the scientific method lay in the ‘refutability of a hypothesis.’ Any theory that cannot be repeated by experiment, and thus tested for refutability, is no theory at all. Accordingly, any individuals or members of government claiming “this is what happened, and that’s all” is disregarding the scientific method, and logic itself, by compelling you to beg the question entirely. And if you’re ignorant or simply a chicken shit that knows better, you’ll probably end up not asking questions.

    Oh gee, guess I should stop now before Mespo chastises me for ‘revealing the true nature of the cave.’ Must be the Platonist in me.

    Stay In Your Own Movie,

    Bob

  35. Bob,

    I’d like to quote one of the greatest military minds of the 20th century. “I know nothing! NOTHING!”

  36. Bobesq:

    I read your links, call me a skeptic but I just dont see how that would be possible. there would be too many people that would have to be involved and someone would have ratted the others out by now. I wont say its not plausible but the probability would have to be very low.

    The towers would have fallen like a controlled demolition because the planes gutted the supports and then the fires weakened what was left. with the mass of the structure above the weakened zone you had a huge amount of potential energy released and down came the buildings.

    I saw a thermite reaction in chemistry once aluminum and iron oxide and it liquified a steel crucible but once the chemical reaction occured it stopped. with all of the aluminum and steel debris there is a possibility of sustained reactions. lets do a controlled demolition with thermite and jet fuel and with thermite alone and see what happens.

  37. Bron98:

    “call me a skeptic but I just dont see how that would be possible. there would be too many people that would have to be involved”

    You’re doing it again.

    All I did was show you physical evidence that further clarifies the limitations making certain explanations plausible and others implausible.

    If you found yourself questioning an explanation you once found plausible but now find to be implausible, then, logically speaking, you should be reevaluating the ground upon which you’ve been standing rather than taking pot shots as to what next overall theory you’ll be hanging your hat on. After all, that’s tantamount to picking a car based on its color.

    First, per your conspiracy phobia, I’d suggest researching the basis of said inchoate crime and examples of how large ones were able to continue until prosecution.

    Second, if you’re going to take a guessing/semi-inductive approach to physics, you might start by looking a bit closer at your subject matter. For example, before saying the planes ‘gut the supports,’ you may want to familiarize yourself with how buildings, e.g. buildings such as the Towers, are designed. Do you know why one floor could collapse entirely onto a floor below while leaving the floors above it completely untouched? Again, it explains why a collapse of the entire structure through the path of increasing resistance is preposterous.

    Third, while I don’t consider myself an expert on thermite or thermate, you may want to read “December 2003-May 2004: Study Indicates Extreme Temperatures Involved in WTC Collapses”

    http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a1203rjleeinvestigation#a1203rjleeinvestigati

    I know, as a conservative, you’re looking for that warm fuzzy feeling of certainty; and anything to the contrary is difficult at best to analyze.

    I simply look at it this way:

    You are constrained to go where the evidence takes you; and if it happens that the evidence starts pointing in the direction of treason, then you take solace in the fact that the penalty for treason is death. After all, there’s a reason ‘treason to benefactor’ is the last circle of hell and that the penalty for treason has almost always been death throughout human history.

    Nasty stuff; but it Kant be ignored.

    Stay In Your Own Movie,

    Bob

  38. Buddha Is Laughing: “I’d like to quote one of the greatest military minds of the 20th century. “I know nothing! NOTHING!”

    But Schultz did know his Strudel.

    CCD: “What comes after Biblical proportions?”

    Not mass hysteria. Nope.

    Just…

    “Deserve’s got nothin’ to do with it.”

    SIYOM,

    Bob

  39. Bobesq:

    I am of the opinion that 2 planes brought them down and will have to see very hard evidence to the contrary to believe otherwise.

    Progressive collapses happen in structures. each floor load is distributed to the supporting columns but each floor is only good for the design loads of that floor plus a safety factor of about 1.67 (based on design codes at the time) although I think the engineer put in some extra to account for a jet strike (not one going 500 mph). The floor to column connections are the important component and they would fail once they were overloaded from the floor(s) above and so on. Once the columns have lost their lateral restaint (from the floor connection) they loose capacity.

    The fact that you had all those floors above the strike point only increases the kinetic energy and subsequently the applied force. When I saw the jet strike and fire I was amazed the buildings didnt come down sooner so the redundancy must have been very good. Once those fires were burning it was only a matter of time for the thermal stresses to overcome this redundancy leading to collapse.

    Additionaly if you watch the video the collapse starts at or above the level of the jet strike whcih in my mind makes sense as this would be the most compromised area due to fire and sheared members.

    Anyway something to think about.

  40. Bron,

    Did you know that the Commission report treated the WTC Towers as hollow? No consideration of the 47 massive steel columns making the core.

    BTW, are you aware that one of the major hot spots left remaining after 9/11, for the next several months, was WTC 7?

    http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a091601hotspots&scale=0#a091601hotspots

    Was that struck by a plane too?

    Did you also know that one of the head engineers at NIST, John Gross, upon publication of their final report, plead ignorance as to the finding of molten steel at the site?

    http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a091201moltenmetal&scale=0#a091201moltenmetal

    Here’s the video of John Gross at NIST.

    Funny, the chief architect of the Towers, Leslie Robertson, witnessed it; why didn’t NIST incorporate it into its calculus?

    Bron, this isn’t “Oh, they didn’t land on the moon” type crap; this analysis is simply the result of being fed conclusory assertions with scant to no supporting premises and a complete disregard for contradicting evidence.

    SIYOM,

    Bob

  41. Bron,

    Did you know that the Commission report treated the WTC Towers as hollow? No consideration of the 47 massive steel columns making the core.

    BTW, are you aware that one of the major hot spots left remaining after 9/11, for the next several months, was WTC 7?

    http://tinyurl.com/db65kj

    Was that struck by a plane too?

    Did you also know that one of the head engineers at NIST, John Gross, upon publication of their final report, plead ignorance as to the finding of molten steel at the site?

    http://tinyurl.com/c5fnzy

    Here’s the video of John Gross at NIST.

    http://tinyurl.com/32fq3n

    Funny, the chief architect of the Towers, Leslie Robertson, witnessed it; why didn’t NIST incorporate it into its calculus?

    Bron, this isn’t “Oh, they didn’t land on the moon” type crap; this analysis is simply the result of being fed conclusory assertions with scant to no supporting premises and a complete disregard for contradicting evidence.

    SIYOM,

    Bob

  42. Bobesq:

    Take a look at this video and look at the last few seconds. I think some of this controlled demo stuff has been mistaken for what a cutting torch did after the fact. the column in question was from the upper third of the building and so would have been on the top. pay attention to the first part of the video where he is showing the column sections from the different levels. if you could get a close up of that column you will probably see the telltale marks of a cutting torch, they look like half circles connected horizontally in a chain

    (
    (
    (
    (
    (
    (
    (
    (
    or just lay the above out horizontaly.

    the link is:

    Although it does look like i might be mistaken as to the loss of connection between trusses and outer and inner columns. One video suggests that they broke the columns although I dont know if I believe that on further consideration because the draping of the trusses from the heat should/could have reduced connection column stresses. But its hard to pinpoint the iniating failure mechanism precisely (other than a giant airplane).

    I am still extremely skeptical about controlled demolition as the final cause, but there do seem to be some unanswered questions that should be cleared up so we can put this behind us.

    One more thought – could the molten “steel” actually have been glass or some other debris?

    ASS, (A Skeptic Still)

    Bron98

  43. Shameless O’Toole, Bron, et. al.:

    Were you impressed by Colin Powell’s use of computer animation as a justification to invade Iraq? An unannotated computer animation is as useful in an argument as an episode of the Flintstones.

    Please recall that my first premise regarding the existence of evidence that is absolutely contradictory began with evidence existing outside the possibilities of thermodynamics; i.e. the existence of molten metal observed for more than six months and the existence of an incredible amount of residual heat.

    That is what you should be focused on because that little ditty knocks the ground(ing) out from under the official story; i.e. one cannot ignore the basic laws of physics for argument’s sake or the sake of any type of convenience.

    That aside, I see you’re interested in the cuts in the steel beams.

    Try this:

    http://www.wtc7.net/articles/stevenjones_b7.html

    Download the pdf and go to page 32

    Or search for the following text:

    Above: two men install a conventional cutter charge to steel column, preparing for a controlled demolition of the building. Notice the narrow width/size of the explosive cutter charge. From History Channel: “Wrecking ball – Modern marvels” and thanks to Robert Moore and http://piratenews.org/911con.html. For comparison, observe one of the angle-cut columns seen at Ground Zero after 9/11/2001, below. (Notice especially the uneven cut at the back of the column and the clinging previously-molten metal on both the outside AND the inside of the column, suggesting this was NOT cut using an oxy-acetylene torch, but rather that a highly exothermic chemical reaction was involved in cutting through this steel column.)

    SIYOM,

    Bob

  44. Bobesq:

    I dont believe too much our government says unless verified by about 10 -12 credible sources. In fact I dont believe too much the media says either. With the internet it is just so easy to have a dozen people sighting a dozen others that were sighting a single observation/opinion and it takes a life of its own with no real factual basis or confirmation. So no I did not believe Gen. Powell.

    The animation, unless I missed something, was supporting your view that shape charges were placed. The animator thought as you think that the center core should have remained intact but did not due to the “cutting” of the lower core columns.

    I read the one link and he presents some interesting information. I guess where I am stuck on this is that what benefit does our government get from doing this, I am assuming you think that the Neocons are behind this, I cant think of any that would make sense to me. Oil – thats in plentiful supply; getting rid of Saddam – use yellow cake; getting rid of Osama – he tried in 1993, they could have ginned that up. What possible benefit does this bestow and upon whom? The United States has probably gotten into a Vietnam like situation in Afghanistan, we have spent billions of dollars on the war effort and lost thousands of lives. I suppose it benefits Haliburton and KBR and Blackwater but Haliburton and KBR could have made money from Saddam and Iran and China. It certainly dosent benefit Bush, I dont even think he was much of a president at this point.

    If you think it was some type of conspiracy who benefits? As far as the physical evidence goes it can probably be explained and a full investigation should be undertaken, this stuff needs to go away or if it was some grand conspiracy the members need to be exposed and hanged.

    SWLASS,

    Bron98

  45. Bron,

    Like I said before, you have to follow the evidence and not allow yourself to accept any conclusions that are clearly contradicted by the facts as presented.

    That said, you keep your eyes open to all possibilities; i.e. you start wide and then decide where to go deeper. But you do it based on the evidence; not on the basis of simple say-so’s.

    Personally, I’d focus more on the evidence that makes the ‘official’ story impossible before hypothesizing about suspects and motives. First you find the contradictory fictions used to bolster the ‘official’ story, THEN you narrow your search to see where that leads.

    You’re interested in motive; you bring up Neocons. Interesting range of suspects having a clearly set forth agenda pre- 9/11 talking about all the things they wanted and later became realities VIA 9/11; e.g. the Project For a New American Century, etc.

    But consider this:

    “The agendas of individual terrorist groups vary, but their
    tactical goal is always more or less the same: to sow fear and confusion by deliberately targeting civilians in order to intimidate a country into changing its policies and ways” (washingtonpost.com 5 Myths About Terrorism)

    Terrorism is all about leverage; not blowing stuff up for shits and giggles.

    So Bron, I ask you, who leveraged 9/11 “in order to intimidate a country into changing its policies and ways?”

    You roughly know the answer; you may not like it, and you may not feel inclined to turn over the logs to find all the critters, but you know.

    SIYOM,

    Bob

  46. Bobesq:

    I am a log turner and would not be afraid of truth. It would certainly be dissapointing (rather an understatement) but something like that would have to be taken care of very harshly.

    There are other possible culprits, the Chinese, the Russians, the Cubans, Iran, Pakistan, Libya. Personally if this was some sort of conspiracy I would put my money on the Chinese and the Iranians. The Neocons actually havent gotten too much out of 9/11 on a global scale plus Mr. Obama now has the power. Now if Mr. Obama dosent finish his first term you are probably on to something very sinister indeed.

    On the noises heard at the WTC prior to collapse, when something like a big piece of steel fractures a huge amount of energy is released and the sound produced is pretty horrendous, think of the crack of a breaking bat and multiply that a thousand fold. Also steel is made up of different elements in small amounts depending on the particular steel or mill. And who knows what can happen when you have all of those forces going on at one time. computer models are good to a point. there are quite a few questions but I think they can be answered. The 13 point guy to his credit did try to answer many of the questions I had once I started thinking about it. But I dont know if you are ever going to be able to replicate in a laboratory the type of conditions that occured and produce valid results.

    Most of the structural engineers I know and all of the articles I have read (granted limited to a couple of engineering mags) basically think the fire caused the problem by reducing the strength of the supporting members. As I mentioned above thermal stresses can be quite large. But all that I have read thanks to you, is food for thought and I will continue to educate myself. Hopefully I am right and you are wrong, I would not like to think that my countrymen are such that would do something like this.

    SWLASS,

    Bron98

  47. Bron,

    “There are other possible culprits, the Chinese, the Russians, the Cubans, Iran, Pakistan, Libya”

    Allow me to clarify: All I’m saying is that the more you analyze the evidence, the more your suspects will come into focus.

    “On the noises heard at the WTC prior to collapse, when something like a big piece of steel fractures a huge amount of energy is released and the sound produced is pretty horrendous, think of the crack of a breaking bat and multiply that a thousand fold.”

    I take it you’ve never read the testimony of firemen, policemen, eyewitnesses, etc., all explaining the pre-collapse explosions they heard; much less the testimony of the lobby being blown out before the collapse.

    Feel free to google it. That aside, in terms of audio verification, this is probably the best evidence, in the literal and legal sense of the term, I’ve seen of the North Tower collapse.

    http://tinyurl.com/deemxr

    “Also steel is made up of different elements in small amounts depending on the particular steel or mill. And who knows what can happen when you have all of those forces going on at one time.”

    Okay Bron, now you’re slipping into cartoon science; tossing reason to the wind and hoping beyond hope that some scientist somewhere will present you with an explanation that you can’t fully understand yet somehow relieves you of the intellectual curiosity to find the truth.

    “Most of the structural engineers I know and all of the articles I have read (granted limited to a couple of engineering mags) basically think the fire caused the problem by reducing the strength of the supporting members. As I mentioned above thermal stresses can be quite large.”

    And here’s why I began this discussion with Q=mc∆t

    Each and every theory of how the towers collapsed, that fails to take into account the presence of molten steel after the collapse, fails to explain the complete event and is thus invalid.

    Why. Because each and every theory that attempts to do so begs the question that the physical laws related to Q=mc∆t were simply in abeyance that Tuesday afternoon, and months thereafter, of September 11, 2001.

    SIYOM,

    Bob

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