The Obama administration has already adopted extreme executive privilege arguments that dwarfed the arguments of George Bush. It has moved to kill dozens of citizens lawsuits to uncover criminal acts of the government. This week, it refused (despite a court ruling) to release embarrassing photos of detainee abuse. Now, in the continue morphing with the prior Administration, Barack Obama is considering a continuation of the Bush policy of indefinitely detaining suspects without trial. I will be discussing this and other issues today on the Ed Beck Show on MSNBC.
Members of Congress are being consulted on the idea. Given the lack of principles motivating democratic leaders in past instances of unlawful surveillance and torture, it is not expected to received to hit much problem in Congress.
The result is that we close the Gitmo facility to recreate it on U.S. soil. The proposal reflects the concern that, if forced to comply with federal law, we could not justify the continued detention of these individuals. If Obama is worried that some added pictures of detainee abuses will be used to recruit new volunteers for Al Qaeda, what does he think his replication of Gitmo will do for recruiters?
As I mentioned last night on Rachel Maddow, the Obama Administration has become the greatest bait and switch in history. No torture prosecution. No abuse photos. No citizen lawsuit on privacy. Absolute executive privilege claims. It is not surprising that civil libertarians feel that we have succeeded in merely upgrading to Bush 1.2 (with the added ability to pronounce multisyllabic terms).
For the full story, click here.
Here we go again. I read the original story, which only quotes Lindsay Graham and appears in the WSJ. You know the WSJ, that highly conservative financial paper, now run by Rupert Murdoch. I await the flood of outraged comments that will accompany this article, which doesn’t represent anything but un-sourced speculation. That it might be being released as a means to put pressure on the President to continue these policy’s is as much a possibility as believing he is really considering this. However, we all know, don’t we, that un-sourced speculation is almost always true.
This action is morally repugnant and a dangerous slap in the face to our system of the rule of law. No president should be able to hold anyone in indefinite detention. If anyone here did not support this idea under bush but now supports it under Obama I must ask, why is that?
Gitmo was designed as a black hole, a way to subvert the rule of law by placing people on what the cheney administration called, “foreign soil”. Obama’s plan is to subvert the rule of law on the American mainland. I do not understand how this can be excused, justified or accepted by our population. The law regarding indefinite detention applies to American citizens as well as foreign nationals.
There is no credibility to this move or the move to revive discredited Military Commissions. These people should be given a fair trial in our civil courts or at the very least, a Courts Martial. We most certainly are destroying our own best values and our Constitution if we allow such a thing to go forward.
This was mentioned in the testimony of Robert Gates before Congress. Look at it as a trial balloon. Running things up the flag pole, (and this idea is circulating from many sorces allied and within the administration) is a time honored way to see who salutes. The American public should not salute. We should make it clear, in every way possible, that this is complete lawless and unacceptable in the American system of justice.
“…merely upgrading to Bush 1.2 (with the added ability to pronounce multisyllabic terms).”
____________
Hit that nail with the legal hammer squarely on the head…
Perhaps Obama needs drug screening. He might be hittin’ the white powder of his youth.
Wow, what a week for Obama:
- infinite detention on US soil
- not releasing torture photos
- reviving military commissions
It makes me sick that I voted for this prick.
“This action is morally repugnant and a dangerous slap in the face to our system of the rule of law.”
Jill,
What action is that? The article is speculative and lacks sourcing.
Wow, what a week for Obama:
- infinite detention on US soil
- not releasing torture photos
- reviving military commissions
I can’t believe I voted for this guy.
Sorry about the repost… I thought the blog software might be filtering out curses or something
“The American public should not salute. We should make it clear, in every way possible, that this is complete lawless and unacceptable in the American system of justice.”
Jill,
On this we agree, but it still must be asserted that this is all based on a speculative WSJ story and that Gates’ mentioned it before congress does not represent Administration action.
Naiveté breeds inconsistencies…
Does anyone try to look at the original story to try to determine whether this is rumor or policy. The not releasing the photos was announced policy and I’ve already called the WH to protest. All else is press speculation and you all know how well their record has been.
I agree Mike Spindell, but when a man is so inconsistent it is difficult to gauge his actions, especially when he has the power to cover-up so much.
FFLEO,
It is true. However, part of the inconsistency comes from the fact that this is a new administration, made up of disparate people, all of whom are vying to solidify power bases. Historically, this is the way our government and others run. The only way for us average folk to get a handle on it is by trying to sort out rumor from fact and to trust our own reading of what’s going on more than that of any supposed pundit or expert.
Mike,
Although I have some real problems with Professor Turley’s liberal views—sometimes—his legal bearing is one aspect with which I rarely disagree. He is my initial legal compass and I only occasionally have to readjust my declination to follow this legalisms.
I think we forget the corrupting toxins within power at our peril:
http://blogdredd.blogspot.com/2009/05/tables-for-toxins-in-power.html
Among other things, those toxic memes work to narrow the distance between right and wrong:
http://blogdredd.blogspot.com/2009/05/when-theres-nothing-right-left-to-do.html
P.S. … hasn’t the Supreme Court already pronounced this a no-no?
Would it be at all helpful at this point to ask the Illinois Bar Association to consider disbarment of Barack Obama? After all, he has no respect for U.S. law and treaties. I would be glad to help sponsor such a complaint, as an Illinois resident myself.
Obama is the worst kind of politico. He engenders confidence, has a boyish smile, promised progressive change and now he is no more than an Uncle Tom for the corporate judicial system. It appears race has nothing whatsoever to do with power. Once you’re in, you’re corrupt. Very disconcerting. Michelle should divorce him. Reconstructing Wall Street without ral change, remaining in Iraq, Afghanistan and ignoring the genuine needs of the very people who elected him. A community organizer? Please.
Ms. Becker:
Has your location changed since the posted user profile states Alabama?
“Although I have some real problems with Professor Turley’s liberal views—sometimes—his legal bearing is one aspect with which I rarely disagree. He is my initial legal compass”
FFLEO,
Me too, but as you know I’m more agreeable to his liberal views. JT though is a well known public person and he has correctly perceived his role as speaking truth to power and this IO have and will continue to fully support. You and I have more flexibility of response because except for here we are unknowns in the political process. I want the Professor to keep the heat on, but I also know enough about how administrations and bureaucracy’s work to be ready to declare the game either apparent or over, so early in the first quarter.
isn’t indefinite detention the reason for the Magna Carta
JT, you know the reason I sought you out here is because of your knowledge of Constitution law and your pretentious Criminal Law Review article ‘From Pillar to Post’.
You’ve continued to inspire me in many other ways, as well.
I would have loved for the state of ME and/or any of the original ’13′ besides, to have succeeded in picking up the charge to impeach Cheney AND Bush while systematically getting rid of people, like Gonzales, BEFORE they all slithered out of town.
For ‘the States’ to have done so, outside of Washington circles, under the grand jury system and republican form of government, would have been the cherry on top!
I’d like to think I had a little something to do with that
penultimate one. Unfortunately, we were foisted with Mukasey in the meantime. Bush and Co. with help from Gonzales et al changed the script – for everybody.
Obama shouldn’t never have been saddled with making his, and possibly last, term all about cleaning up their mess and especially not for their apparent benefit only. They and their neocon friends need to suffer for what they did and I am
beginning to see that they are, finally!
I’m anxious for us all to see more and I hope we will!
I can still hear my father saying “Use your head for something other than a hatrack, Friend!”
And though it sounds backwards, we should consider using the
hatracks as something other than our heads, as well…!
p.s. I came across this the other day… Sound familiar?
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/I+beg+your+pardon
…” In December 1992, President george h.w. bush pardoned six officials of the ronald reagan administration who were implicated in the Iran-Contra Affair. Bush granted the pardons shortly before leaving office. He based the pardons on his belief that the officials had been prosecuted over policy differences rather than for criminal acts….”
Hey folks we all need to calm down for a minute. Give the President a chance. With President Obamas background in Con-Law he knows and fully understands the law. I take him at his word. Did you think for a minute that the Bush/Cheney boys have left some major stink bombs which are probably still classified and he cant do one without the other? We all know that a special prosecutor is coming and all of this will be handled the proper way, which I think is what the President really wants. Remember we are not dealing with Bush/Cheney.
Mike S.,
You have done a good job in suggesting that it would be nice to have some sources behind the story that the WSJ is throwing out there. I would ask for that from any progressive paper, but especially from a conservative paper like the Wall Street Journal. I wouldn’t trust the WSJ without some serious confirmation.
FFLEO:
I too am having same reservations as you,I ran my thoughts by a friend of mind and his thoughts were,that he would give him a year,before he made a judgement.
And I think to be fair that may be right.But it seems as if he wants to do the right thing,but at the same time,he seems not to see whats going on right in front of him.
I hope he will prove me wrong,and somehow everything will fall into place,but trying to go forward when some many things are making us look backwards,its not to encouraging at this point.
Doesnt you mean the Ed Shultz show? Not being a smartass Jonathan—I love ya. I wish you had your own show on tv. I would LOVE to watch an hour of Constitutional law every day. That would be AWESOME!
eniobob,
Unfortunately, we do not have a year for Mr. O to start this race to oblivion if he does not enjoin in the marathon against the U.S. Constitution and the Rule of Law.
I want the man to succeed.
Obama is a waste of time and very dangerous.
Leo, I want a Ferrari
Please read this report. I know many people do not want to believe Obama could be involved in wrongdoing but to ignore clear indications otherwise allows the harm of our detainees to continue. Harm to the helpless must outweight political loyalty. This is by Jeremy Scahill. He is not part of the MSM. He wrote a book outing the misdeeds of Blackwater.
“Bush-era ‘Black Shirts’ Continue Reign of Terror Under Obama at Gitmo: gang beating prisoners, breaking bones, gouging eyes, squeezing testicles, and ‘dousing’ them with chemicals.”
http://rebelreports.com/
“Mike S.,
You have done a good job in suggesting that it would be nice to have some sources behind the story that the WSJ is throwing out there. I would ask for that from any progressive paper, but especially from a conservative paper like the Wall Street Journal. I wouldn’t trust the WSJ without some serious confirmation.”
Rafflaw,
Thank you but as you can see it made not one dent, nor seemed to give anyone a moment’s pause. Pre-Judgment is the rule of the day and if something fits with your own personal belief, then damn the facts and full speed ahead. When I see the enormous variety and depth of problems this President walked into and the clamor from the Anti-Bush side (to which I belong)to blame him for not doing enough on all the issues, an old joke from the 50′s comes to mind.
Aside from all that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?
To me the analogy is that while lip service is paid to all the problems the man faces, none of his own making, each step he takes is judged as not being enough, or a retrogression. It is as if the man was working in a vacuum on each issue and that he had total control of the whole process. Criticism of an Administration is always proper and appropriate. Self fulfilling prophecies though seldom bring positive political change, although they make their proponents feel good.
Mike
I haven’t gotten around to reading the full WSJ article…. wasn’t Karl Rove quoted?
Nevertheless what springs to mind is this:
quis custodiat ipsos custodes
who shall guard the guardians themselves?
This is yet more more example of why we must not *wait* to observe how Mr. O is going to act. If any of you have see Mountaintop Removal up close and have flown over such areas, you know of the devastating environment damage that occurs.
http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2009/05/17-2
Obama’s EPA clears 42 of 48 New Mountaintop Removal Mining Permits
by Ken Ward Jr.
CHARLESTON, W.Va. — The Obama administration has cleared more than three-dozen new mountaintop removal permits for issuance by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, drawing quick criticism from environmental groups who had hoped the new president would halt the controversial practice.
In a surprise announcement Friday, Rep. Nick J. Rahall said 42 of the 48 permits already examined by the U.S. Environmental Protection had been approved by EPA for issuance by the corps.
“It is unfortunate that, when EPA once again began reviewing proposed coal mining permits earlier this year, alarmists claimed that a moratorium on permit issuance was being proposed,” Rahall said in a telephone news conference. “That was not that case then, and it is not the case now.”
I am watching a Democratic and Republican Senator saying that if Gitmo crew are moved to maximum security institutions, they will expect the rights that “normal” criminals have, particularly access to habeus corpus. Thus they might actually be released into the community.
I have several questions that I am hoping a reader might answer. These are not rhetorical questions. I do not know the answer.
1) Have all these “worst of the worst” been charged?
2) Have they access to all of the information leading to the charges?
3) Have they had access to adequate legal counsel?
Can they really be held at a max. security institution, or for that matter anywhere, indefinitely without access to our legal system?
Would appreciate any answers.
Thanks.