We have previously seen Rev. John Hagee and his rather twisted sense of the divine (here and here). Now it appears that he is turning to military history and explaining how prayer and fasting clearly ended the civil war. Hagee was introduced recently by Glenn Beck as “a prophet of our times” and sat enraptured as Hagee explained how Lincoln was able to bring an end to the civil war with a day of prayer and fasting.
Hagee told Beck’s viewers:
The thing that brought the Civil War, in my mind, to an end, was that Abraham Lincoln called for a day of fasting and prayer for the whole nation… and it was approved by the Senate and there was a specific day that he called all of the people of America to pray…
The nation was ripped apart by hatred as brother fought brother and father fought son but, when this man, this godly man, this man whose speeches are laced with bible verses, got down and asked our nation to pray, suddenly, things began to happen that brought the Union together and Robert E. Lee had the grace to surrender a battle that couldn’t be won, and the Union was preserved.
The problem is that the Day of Prayer was on March 30, 1863 and Lee did not surrender until April 9, 1865.
It is of course a bit unclear how the day of prayer March 30, 1863 ended the civil war . . . two years later.
There were a few events between March 30, 1863 and April 9, 1865 that might be relevant in ending the war. These include Gettysburg (July 1, 1863), Vicksburg (July 4, 1863), Battle of Chickamauga (September 19, 1863), Battle of the Wilderness (May 4, 1865), Battle of Spotsylvania (May 8, 1864), the Battle of Petersburg (Apr 2, 1865), Fall of Richmond (Apr 2, 1865), the Burning of Atlanta (Sep 2, 1864), Sherman’s March to the Sea (Nov 15, 1864), the Fall of Nashville (Dec 15, 1864), the fall of Savannah (Dec. 21, 1864), and the Thirteenth Amendment ending slavery (Jan. 31, 1865). Those small events after the the day of prayer may have had a marginal impact on Lee’s decision ultimately surrender. By the way, just in case you thought Lee only had defeats after the day of prayer in 1863, Hagee might want to visit the battlefields at places like Chancellorsville (May 1, 1863).
Hagee’s theory reminds me of the scene in “Men Who Stare At Goats” when the character Larry Hooper gives Lyn Cassady the Dim Mak or death touch, which will kill him decades in the future.
It is fascinating to religious leaders like Hagee rewriting history to explain how the power of prayer — and indeed their own implied power — actually turning world events as if the confederates lacked the power of prayer or faith. It also ignores the disconnect in claiming the power of prayer to end the war but apparently not to influence Lee (a deeply religious man). It also suggests that God was just waiting for a sufficient number of prayers and a resolution approved by the United States Senate to set events in motion to end the war . . . years (and hundreds of thousands of deaths) later. Lee then “had the grace” to end the war two years later. Under this same logic, the opening prayer before FDR’s declaration of war in Congress on December 8, 1941 ultimately ended World War II on September 2, 1945.
Well, he has a certain point. The fasting that the Union provided for the traitorous Bastids probably help convince them to give up owning humans and join civilize society.
If I recall Lincoln and Mary Todd were spiritualist….. But so we’re lots of folks then….. They’d not be accepted, in my opinion in the churches of the almighty offering of the dollar….
The lunatic establishment is more of a danger than the lunatic fringe.
They are high on mythadream in more ways than one.
One just doesn’t know where the spiritual delusion ends and the dementia begins with some of these people.
Gene, good choice
Lincoln was a RINO.
No. Lincoln was a Republican, but back in his time, the parties were the polar opposites of what they are now. That shift in polarity was largely a result of the Civil War.
Certainly it was prayer! That, and Sheridan’s cavalry and the II aand VI Corps at Sayler’s Creek
Funny how God is always on the side with the better Army.
Frankly:
“Funny how God is always on the side with the better Army.”
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Well, He is a master tactician. See Jericho, Battle of.
Frankly 1, October 1, 2012 at 9:43 am
Funny how God is always on the side with the better Army.
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The bitter Army.
Theses idiots used to be amusing when they were on the fringe but now that they are running for office or advising those who do it is frightening. This is what’s theocracy looks like and it is not pretty.
Dredd:
“The bitter Army.”
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Actually Sheridan and his troops were in a pretty good mood. It was he who famously said, ““If I owned Hell and Texas I would rent out Texas and live in Hell.” Good man!
Facts, schmacks, he’s a man of God and the ultimate keeper of truth and wisdom. Just like cardinals who protect pedophiles. Didn’t you all get the memo?
Of course, the real reason that the Leftists hate Pastor Hagee is that he is a leader of the largest pro-Israel group in the USA. How dare he do that, the Leftists cry out. And, of course, Leftists hate Israel and those Joos who are advancing science, medicine, and the arts. But that goes without saying.
Wait–wait–
I know how the fast and prayer day made the war end two years later: HE WAS THREATENING TO DO IT AGAIN IF EVERYBODY DIDN’T IMMEDIATELY STOP THEIR FUSSING AND END THE WAR!!!
That’s LEADERSHIP!
Ralph,
once again the facts mean nothing to you. Wouldn’t American Jews be the largest pro-Israel group in the USA?
Ralph–
I am a Leftist.
I do not hate Israel.
I do not consider Hagee my leader in ANYTHING.
“The problem is that the Day of Prayer was on March 30, 1863 and Lee did not surrender until April 9, 1865.”
The problem is Hagee thinks it’s the 1800s. All this science stuff and modern technology is just a passing fad. Soon we will return to blind faith in Hagee and Company, all will be well.
Forever and ever…AhChoo !!!
Psycho Christians and the media
Why the press gives McCain a pass for consorting with batshit holy men, but condemns Obama to talk-show hell for the same sin.
By Gary Kamiya
May 20, 2008
http://www.salon.com/2008/05/20/hagee_4/
Excerpt:
John McCain has some seriously screwed-up holy men surrounding him. First, there’s the Rev. John Hagee, a hate-monger and certifiable loon who believes that Hurricane Katrina was God’s judgment on New Orleans for planning a gay parade, calls Catholicism a “false cult system” that conspired with Hitler to exterminate the Jews, and believes that America’s divine duty is to destroy Iran…
Funny how according to the reverend, prayer and such ended the civil war through inviting God’s providence yet since 1865 we continue to have wars. How could this be? Why not end all wars if He could.
Sometimes I wonder, rather jokingly to myself, if God created Neutron Stars and Magnetars in far away places because He got so frustrated with humanity He had to break away and do something different for a while.
How about a day of cease fire, Lincoln settled the debate on states rights by a war that cost a 100,000 American lives, what a great president?
I have heard the Rev. John C. Hagee described as Rush Limbaugh’s older and more serious brother.
His twisting the history of the Civil War is as convoluted as his twisting of Christian theology.
Like all good con men he radiates certainty in his delivery and he produces many best selling books but as Robert Boston remarked in The Most Dangerous Man in America?: Pat Robertson and the Rise of the Christian Coalition:
“How a book sells is not an indication of its merit. The American public has a seemingly bottomless appetite for nonsense, as evidenced by the countless tomes about astrology, aliens from outer space, quack diets, and UFOs that have regularly graced best-seller lists over the years. Some books that sold millions have later been exposed as hoaxes. A slot on the best-seller list tells you exactly one thing about a book: that a lot of people bought it.”
The Rev. John C. Hagee is as seriously flawed as any other pious jerk who got involved in an affair with a younger woman within his congregation resulting in divorce and lost custody of his children. That’s probably why there isn’t much from this period of time (1976-1987) in his biography. His battle with the postal service over their refusal to grant him non-profit mail rates (with so much for sale via the mail, Hagee isn’t exactly non-profit), is just another indication of the man’s hypocracy.
All in all this guy is just another religious con artist … America produces them by the bucketful. Some, like Joseph Smith and L. Ron Hubbard, catch on. Others, like the Rev. John C. Hagee, make good guests for Beck’s audience of true believers.
Spelling Correction: Hagee The Hysterian?
mespo727272 1, October 1, 2012 at 9:55 am
Dredd:
“The bitter Army.”
…
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The bitter army is the one with the most suicides after “bringin’ democrazy to them heathurn” … the bitter end army … the “destroying them in order to save them army.”
They are exceptionally bitter with “gawd and hystery” on their side.
Ralph, you know Hagee is just using Israel- in his fantasy mind set Israel has to reclaim all the ‘biblical lands’ in order for Christ to come back for the Rapture.
It is these religious fairy tales that oppose and combat science, democracy and progress in America. Hagee is a pure con man, nothing more, nothing less.
the people who follow him are willfully blind or mentally confused and weak. They cannot see all the lies this man tells in order to make cold hard cash.
http://the-scientist.com/2012/10/01/science-and-democracy/
Raff, Pastor Hagee’s group, Christians United for Israel (CUFI) is an organized group consisting of more than one million members. It is the single largest ORGANIZED pro-Israel group in the USA.
Jews and those of Jewish heritage may or may not be pro-Israel, and indications are that a good many of them are not. Most of the Jews who are not supporters of Israel are Leftists. (Surprise, surprise.) For example, many of the Jews associated with Hollywood are anti-Israel. This was not always the case. But things have changed radically–literally and figuratively–from the days of Paul Newman and Otto Preminger (star and director, respectively, of Exodus) to Sean Penn and Oliver Stone, two far Leftists.
“Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree…”
Yep, Hagee the Historian. Makes sense to me.
Shano, I completely disagree with your characterization of Pastor Hagee. While I don’t agree with everything that he has said, if he is to be judged at all, he should be judged on his actions. And in his actions, he has always been an honorable man. The money that Pastor Hagee and CUFI have raised has been devoted exclusively to the cause of strengthening Chrisitian and Jewish relations and to encourage support for Israel through educational programs. You may not personally like these goals, but there is no question that CUFI has made remarkable achievments that have advanced those goals.
“Of course, the real reason that the Leftists hate Pastor Hagee is that he is a leader of the largest pro-Israel group in the USA. How dare he do that, the Leftists cry out. And, of course, Leftists hate Israel and those Joos who are advancing science, medicine, and the arts. But that goes without saying.”
Ralph Hill: So are you Chinese or Japanese?
Minh Souphanousinphone: No, we are Laotian.
Ralph Hill: The ocean? What ocean?
Kahn Souphanousinphone: From Laos, stupid! It’s a landlocked country in South East Asia between Vietnam and Thailand, population approximately 4.7 million!
Ralph ponders this for a few seconds.
Ralph Hill: So are you Chinese or Japanese?
Shannon,
I think you have it backwards. Israel is using Hagee. He is their “useful idiot” and he’s getting rich for his service. Scofield Bible apostasy has been around since the early 1900s. He’s just another dispensationalist loon.
Hagee “honorable”? hahahhahhahahah What a crock. No con man has honor of any kind. He is a glutton obviously. And a stupid one at that.
His followers are even more clueless than he is, at least he got rich by spouting this nonsense. They just get their wallets emptied..
That’s why it’s called Hillbilly Heroin.
“And in his actions, he has always been an honorable man. ” (Ralph Adamo)
The Rev. John C. Hagee is as seriously flawed as any other pious jerk who got involved in an affair with a younger woman within his congregation resulting in divorce and lost custody of his children. That’s probably why there isn’t much from this period of time (1976-1987) in his biography.
Yessiree … adultery is about as honorable as it gets for the good reverend
Ralph has brain damage from listening to fairy tales and thinking liars are honorable:
http://disasterpredictions.com/tag/john-hagee/
Shano, “He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone. . .” John 8:7, KJV.
Shano, you have the effrontery to use an Muslim-terrorist supporting website link as “evidence” for your pseudo-argument? No comment needed.
As we all know Ralph, any web site with Muslims is a terrorist supporting website. Glad you point that out before they pick me up on NDAA charges. Something else you probably agree with.
Oh, about those stones, you can dish it out but can’t take it. typical.
Ralph, you haven’t commented on the less honorable acts Hagee was involved with. You mention there are about one million Americans who belong to CUFI. So, what? Many flies are attracted to excrement; doesn’t mean all of them are! Religion is so tiresome; I need to take a nap from it, a very long one!
In re Rev. Hagee’s “honor” . . .
Pete: The Preacher said it absolved us.
Ulysses Everett McGill: For him, not for the law. I’m surprised at you, Pete, I gave you credit for more brains than Delmar.
Delmar O’Donnell: But they was witnesses that seen us redeemed.
Ulysses Everett McGill: That’s not the issue Delmar. Even if that did put you square with the Lord, the State of Mississippi’s a little more hard-nosed. [laughs] Baptism! You two are just dumber than a bag of hammers!
Arguing with fundies is a waste of time. Like the parable of the frog in the well, when confronted with the ocean their heads tend to explode.
Good catch Blouise. Rev. Hagee seems to forget all of that Christ stuff.
Elsie, “Many flies are attracted to excrement.” Indeed. However, this metaphor bears no correspondence to the more than one million members of Christians United for Israel. But it would explain the Leftist olfactory-like attraction to Obama’s policies and practices.
Obama is for Israel all the way, baby! No doubt about that.
Re: Shano’s link to:
“Disaster Predictions
…………………………………………….The World is currently experiencing an unprecedented amount of turmoil. Psychics are reporting disturbing visions……………………………………………….. At Disaster Predictions we endeavor to report news of Earthquakes, Tornadoes, Wars and other life-threatening events BEFORE they happen.”
Shano, LOL, brilliant! Simply brilliant! When you hear the “terrorist” Muslim response to Hagee’s thesis on this, THIS, website and the “terrorist” Muslim response sounds like the more reasonable statement you know the Hagee has entered the stratosphere of delusion. Man, you win the Internets today.
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Mespo: “See Jericho, Battle of”, way up-thread.
I knew this was going to become a really fun thread when I returned and read down to your comment, thanks buddy.
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Gene, Oh brother…. good one.
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Blouse : “I have heard the Rev. John C. Hagee described as Rush Limbaugh’s older and more serious brother.”
LOL, the intro (to an otherwise serious and solid posting) says it all. Well done
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When I get to the blawg late I usually don’t comment because most everything relevant and irrelevant) has been said but some threads are just too tasty to let pass without kudos to the posters.
Eddie, like your (G)avatar, stick around, your snarky humor I welcome, I really liked “King of the Hill”.
raff,
What truly disturbs legitimate Christian theologians is his modified “Dual Covenant” view. His only doctoral degree is an honorary one from Oral Roberts University which explains his ignorance when it comes to actual Christian doctrine and theology.
His basic Calvinist views (predestination) combined with the heretical Dual Covenant beliefs puts him in the Cult category wherein one will find many similar end-timers. His views on the Jews in Israel flow nicely into that end-time and Dual Covenant heresy.
It suits him and, most importantly, has allowed him to enjoy great financial success.
The really good con men/women go into the religious field because running the con there is perfectly legal and lucrative.
“When I get to the blawg late I usually don’t comment because most everything relevant and irrelevant) has been said but some threads are just too tasty to let pass without kudos to the posters.” (lotta)
But I wish you would comment even if you feel it has all been said for I enjoy reading your individual take on any subject. I’m not being polite … I sincerely mean it.
I have a feeling that Jesus would have a problem with Mr. Hagee. A real problem. As Gandhi once said, he liked that Jesus fellow, but did not care much for most of his followers.
Hagee would have identified much more closely with the moneychangers than the apostles.
After studying some photos of Hagee, I have come to the conclusion he likes being comfortable. Fat and happy, as the old saying goes. I have some difficulty imagining him sneaking around in the catacombs, meeting with fellow Christians to celebrate secret Eucharist and risking his life for what passes for the typical Sunday morning sermon.
Anybody else thinking like I am that this Ralphie person is really Tootie on better meds?
I was just reading about a book recommended by the fundies for homeschooling kids in history. This Hagee guy would make a great contributor to that work.
It claims that the reason France had the revolution while England and America did not was . . . humanists and deists! (Apparently knowledge of the actual writings and beliefs of the actual founders is frowned upon). It also blamed a lot of the problems on the Catholic church, which given the affinity the RCC’s leadership has shown for the sorts of people who historically have accused them of this should create some interesting conversations in their circles.
I am looking for online info, will post links if I find anything
Hagee, Hagee, bo baggie…
Nanna nanna fo faggie…
Haggieeee!
If the first two letters are ever the same…
Ya drop them both and say the name…
etc
–Name Game
Blouise, thank you for the encouragement, I always enjoy your postings also.
Blouise, I once suggested that lotta should be a guest blogger.
SwM,
If she has the time, is willing to take the abuse, and is agreeable to decloaking … otherwise, I’ll settle for her posts on others’ threads.