Missouri Legislator Introduces Bill To Teach Creationism As A Scientific Theory And To Teach Evolution As A Philosophy

RickBrattinMissouri GOP Rep. Rick Brattin still doesn’t buy that whole evolution thing. Indeed, Brattin is the latest politician to seek to make science conform to religious beliefs by introducing bills that would force creationism into science classes and make “intelligent design” theories equivalent to evolution as a scientific subject. Brattin has proclaimed in this district that he would work to stop the “slow erosion of our God ordained liberties and freedoms.” That apparently begins by ordering “God-ordained” science for Missouri children. By the way, Missouri is already ranked 41st out of 50 states in school quality. Brattin appears committed to beating South Dakota for the distinction of the worst school system in the nation. Students will now receive education in the three rs: reading, ‘riting, and religion.

House Bill 291 defines biological evolution as a “philosophy” that “denies the operation of any intelligence, supernatural event, God or theistic figure in the initial or subsequent development of life.” It further states “The origin of life on earth is inferred to be the result of intelligence directed design and construction. There are no plausible mechanisms or present-day experiments to prove the naturalistic origin of the first independent living organism.”

The law dictates a religious based understanding of science, including “Intelligence-directed action is necessary to exceed the limits of natural species change, which is a combination of autogenous species change and environmental effected species change. Multi-generation breeding experiments illustrate the limits of natural species change and its inadequacy for developing required genetic information found in dissimilar species.”

The rather convoluted and pseudo-sciencific language then states:

(3) If scientific theory is taught, the theory shall be identified as theory when taught orally or in writing. Empirical data and conjecture may be presented to support taught theory where considered instructive. As used in this subsection, the term “theory” shall mean theory or hypothesis;
(a) If a scientific theory concerning origin or destiny is taught without the teaching of opposing scientific theory, the taught theory may be criticized by the teaching of conflicting empirical data where considered instructive;
(b) If scientific theory concerning biological origin is taught in a course of study, biological evolution and biological intelligent design shall be taught. Other scientific theory or theories of origin may be taught. If biological intelligent design is taught, any proposed identity of the intelligence responsible for earth’s biology shall be verifiable by present-day observation or experimentation and teachers shall not question, survey, or otherwise influence student belief in a nonverifiable identity within a science course;
(c) If scientific theory concerning biological origin is taught in a textbook, the textbook shall give equal treatment to biological evolution and biological intelligent design. Other scientific theory or theories of origin may be taught.

The tortured language is an effort to avoid the word “creationism” and to dress up religious beliefs as scientific theory while treating evolution as a philosophy.

The bill would recreate “standard science” in a more faith-based image and guarantee Missouri will fall further in its educational rankings. What is clear is that the drafters may be the best argument against evidence of evolution. The law is poorly crafted and both intellectually and politically dishonest. It is little more than to legislate that science teachers will legitimate religious views despite the overwhelming support for the fact of evolution.

Bratten has only a high school degree and science does not appear to have been his favorite subject. However, his bio assures voters that “He and his kids are devoted Christians and members of the Strasburg Baptist Church.”

Source: ARTechnica

79 thoughts on “Missouri Legislator Introduces Bill To Teach Creationism As A Scientific Theory And To Teach Evolution As A Philosophy

  1. You know who I feel sorry for? The citizens of that state who are not fortunate enough to be able to afford to get the h e double hockey sticks out of there. What a cesspool of ignorance.

  2. Don’t assume an entire state is a “cesspool of ignorance” on the basis of one bill introduced by one state legislator, at least until it looks like that bill might actually pass. Thousands of bills and amendments are introduced in every state legislative session. In every state there are some really idiotic bills introduced. (My favorite example was a bill introduced in my state that would have required our state court to ignore precedent when interpreting the state constitution, and start from scratch on every constitutional question.) Introducing bills doesn’t mean they will pass or even receive serious consideration. In some cases even the sponsor doesn’t want the bill to advance, having introduced it only as a token gesture to get some group off of his or her back. (Although in this case, I’m guessing the sponsor is a true believer.)

  3. @Wombat
    I don’t base the remark on this incident alone by any means and by no means am I saying Missouri is alone in it’s ignorance.

    Thanks for the song! One of my all time favorites!

  4. “By the way, Missouri is already ranked 41st out of 50 states in school quality.
    Bratten has only a high school degree and science does not appear to have been his favorite subject.”


    Must have gone to high school in Missouri. Maybe they can get their own creationist museum just like that other bastion of educational quality, Kentucky!! There the motto is “Prepare to Believe.” I suggest it be changed to “Prepare to be Hornswoggled.”

  5. Mespo,

    Rationale people are going to believe what’s real I’m lead to believe…. But then again, not all rational people we think are rational are in reality sane…..

  6. Sadly shaking my head at the ignorance. GWB said, “even a C student can be President” Corollary: even a D student or F student can be a state legislator.

  7. State of Missouri has a nickname: Welfare State (greater percentage of the population is on welfare compared to those who are working or graduated from college).

    It always seems like the ones, who don’t have any expertist on a particular issue (Rick Brattin), are the ones creating legislation to fix an issue.

    Nevertheless, Missouri symbolizes our country: The Great Divide. St. Louis, Missouri takes pride in being called the “Biotech Center of the Midwest”

    http://www.stlrcga.org/x1959.xml?ss=print (not included in this article is the $70 million research facility built by Saint Louis University: http://www.slu.edu/x39529.xml).

    However, the City of STL is one of the most dangerous places to live in due to high crime, the public school district has lost its’ accreditation, home values have not improved in most areas due to the high number of short sales and foreclosures, and STL remains a place where the asthma and allergy qaulity is very high amongst its’ resident due to poor air quality.

    On the other hand, STL is also in the top 10 place where retirees come to live (don’t ask me why), use to be in the top 5 for most fotune 1000 companies, and use to be in the top 10 for the most fortune 500 companies (some of these companies have sold to competitors outside of STL).

  8. OMG. I don’t really mind teaching “intelligent [sic] design” as a scientific theory as long as we give equal time to the other scientific theories about how we got here, such as:

    1. There was a big pile of turtles;
    2. Shiva got very angry on one of those rainy days;
    3. Thor was sitting on a mountain when all of a sudden…
    4. A cosmic pig erupted and out came a big, big pearl…
    5. Hera had a love affair with Schmug and got pregnant with the world…
    6. God got lonely and he made him a clay man and breathed into him the breath of life…
    7. The great spirit wanted to enjoy running horses so he started with a man but he baked it too long and threw it into Africa…
    8. There was an eggplant…

  9. RWL,

    I think the St. Louis dichotomy arises because most of the wealthy folk live in the St. Louis suburbs, or in City enclaves of wealth such as around the University. I spent a week there six years ago and was amazed to find luxury
    loft condos downtown going for ridiculously cheap prices in the midst of the country’s housing boom. I my time there I discovered that many people didn’t venture downtown except for Cardinal games. I also drove through the downtown at 1:00am with my convertible top down, after gambling in East St. Louis. For the miles it took me to drive to my hotel by Union Station there was not one person, or car, on the street. Perhaps the most eerie urban experience I’ve had.

    As to this idiot legislator the notion of this bill is preposterous, were it not the slim possibility it would pass ad then have Missouri compete with Mississippi and Alabama as our two most backward states.

  10. Mike S,

    Sounds like someone has visited the STL. Those condos and lofts were a major, financial disaster. The purpose behind this redevelopment was to bring the working class families back to the city. However, this didn’t occur, while the city continues to lose residents to the suburbs. Instead, taxpayers’ dollars (mostly coming from the city of STL) are being used to subsidize the cost for the developers. In other words, most of the condos and lofts are now being rented or leased out to young adults who like ‘hanging out’ at the new, revitalized downtown night clubs, from 11pm-3am, on Washington Ave (I haven’t been to Union Station in over a decade, and most of downtown is a ghost town after 10pm, except on friday and saturday nights)!

    The young adults also like living around midtown where St. Louis University (SLU) is located. However, it is in the city, and there is plenty of crime near SLU’s beautiful campus. Most middle class families refuse to live in or around SLU.

    You are right! Living in the suburbs is the place to be. Most middle class families dream to live around or near Washington Univesity, located in the suburbs Clayton-Richmond Heights or around Ladue (one of the most wealthiest districts in the country, so is Chesterfield). However, we settle for the more affordable suburbs or counties farther out (like Florissant, MO or St. Charles County).

    I stopped going to Cardinal games a long time ago (when they made the deal to have us pay for their new stadium in 2003 and ball park village, which is just now being built….we are still paying for it).

  11. RWL,

    I also visited StL in 1977 & 1978. I had a close friend getting his doctorate from Washington University. Stayed in the area around campus for one week each time. I was single then and I had wonderful time in and around the City and hanging out in the nightlife. When I last visited in I guess 2007 it was because of the earlier memories. I stayed at the Drury by Union Station. The City was not as nice as I remembered it, but by then I didn’t have a close friend at school anymore.

  12. @Michael…very first reaction when I saw his picture, before I read a single word of the post, was:

    “This gay man has some gloriously white teeth.”

    I would be willing to bet anything that this man is gay.

  13. Went in dumb, come out dumb too..
    Hustlin round Atlanta in our alligator shoes’..
    We’re Rednecks, Rednecks..
    We dont know an A– from a hole in the ground..

  14. The Dover trial already showed that ‘intelligent design’ is a religious movement, plain and simple. This bill and others like it are determined to be unconstitutional from t=0.

    The PBS NOVA episode provides a nice synopsis of the arguments, court proceedings, and ruling.

    “Judgement Day: Intelligent Design on Trial” : http://video.pbs.org/video/980040807

  15. Regardless of sexual orientation, this Rep is an example of the failings of the voting body. He has terrible credentials, but is handsome and fits the majority’s ideology.

    He wouldn’t be qualified to even get an interview to be a school principal, but he has been elected and feels qualified to tell whole school districts how to instruct already failing schools in their science curriculum. He couldn’t pass a low level science class’ test, but he can influence what will be tested.

    Maybe he even has a vendetta against an educational system that he was barely able to navigate. Instead of encouraging kids to learn more/try harder, he will simply attempt to water down the system by allowing the ‘easy answer’, god did it, into the classroom. I have no evidence of his potential grievances and I’m only stating a hypothetical in this last paragraph.

  16. Blind Faithiness,
    You are so correct that it is amazing that school districts employing PHD’s,, EDD’s and Master Degrees and Bachelor degrees are being mandated by mental giants like this Rep. Once again, the more religion is intertwined with politics, we will get more crap like this.

  17. I find it incredible that fundamentalists like Rick Brattin do not understand Darwin or how similar they were in some ways.

    Compare Darwin to his comtemporary Lamarck for example:

    One would say that [man] is destined to exterminate himself after having rendered the globe uninhabitable.” – Lamarck (1817)

    [RE: Darwin] In his private correspondence, he wrote that “man in the distant future will be a far more perfect creature than he now is,” and that natural selection, driven by the struggle for existence between races, would continue to play a major role in human evolution. Darwin interpreted the Crusades in these terms. As he commented to his correspondent in 1881:

    Lastly, I could show fight on natural selection having done and doing more for the progress of civilisation than you seem inclined to admit. Remember what risks nations of Europe ran, not so many centuries ago, of being overwhelmed by the Turks, and how ridiculous such an idea now is! The more civilized so-called Caucasian races have beaten the Turkish hollow in the struggle for existence. Looking to the world at no very distant date, what an endless number of the lower races will have been eliminated by the higher civilized races throughout the world.

    Darwin’s views were rooted in the erroneous concept of race of his time. Like the eugenicists who followed him early in the twentieth century, he failed to recognize the sizeable role of the environment, culture and education in establishing human characteristics.

    (The Evolution of Anthropogenic Extinction). Darwin would have been a climate change denier, while Lamarck would not have.


  18. Pinocchio is saying he won’t take his medicine until after he gets the sugar. Does anyone really believe him?

    Considering the constant and repetitive dishonesty of religious wingnuts, only those just off the turnip truck.

  19. “I don’t buy that whole reality thing. There has to be magic and ghosts and swans, doesn’t there? Lots of swans – oh, and bright colors! Purples and pinks and lavenders and chartreuses. And ponies! Lots and lots of ponies. Science has none of those, so we shouldn’t have to think about it! Even swans hate it, so why teach children? Why? Let them dream up their own answers to life’s questions, let them be ignorant and incapable, let them grow up to be Republican politicians! Yaaaaay!!” ~ Rick Brattin

  20. I implore everyone who disagrees with this bill, to write him and voice your opinion! I did:

    Rick Brattin-

    Thank you for contributing to the ruination of our country’s education system.

    You don’t get to just change the definitions of terms to suit your needs or your bills. I hope this is your last term and I hope you never, EVER, get another chance to speak for others. You do not deserve another vote or cent of tax dollars. This bill is an absolute atrocity to REAL SCIENCE and continues to hold this country back.

    In case you haven’t noticed, America holds only one top rank in the world, and it isn’t education. Missouri ranks 41 out of 50 in school quality. Why don’t you take a look at other school systems in the countries with high ranking education systems for some cues? Why not? WHY NOT!? Look at what they do, because they are onto something, and WE ARE FALLING BEHIND.

    The day your religion no longer plagues this country cannot come soon enough.

    If I were you, I would push for better health care for Missourians. If your bill passes, those people will need that extra health care money to cure the perpetual nausea caused from you shoving Bibles down their throats.

    Thanks again for destroying our future-

  21. “God-ordained” science…..”

    Oxymorons are funniest when offered by such clueless morons as this (I’m betting home-schooled) one.

  22. Meanwhile in St. Louis:

    US college student creates blueprints for a drone-proof city

    Published: 15 February, 2013, 21:20


    “Asher Kohn isn’t an urban planner, but he has managed to draw up designs for an entire city — and a drone-proof one, at that. But according to Kohn, a town that’s impermeable to the newest instruments of war isn’t just a novelty. It’s a necessity.

    “Architecture against drones is not just a science-fiction scenario but a contemporary imperative,” says Kohn, a 25-year-old American-born law student who is currently living in the Netherlands. And although architecture and urban planning are rarely core classes of most law school curricula, earlier this year Kohn handed in a simple blueprint for an assignment offered by a professor at the Sam Fox School of Design in St. Louis, Missouri.

    “I was assigned ‘military architecture’ and realized that for every huge military advance that made it easier to blow up urban areas, there was usually a passive response invented within a generation,” he tells Britain’s Daily Mail. “So I was wondering what the response would be for drones if drones are the next great advance like artillery and airplanes were.”

    A hypothetical answer is presented in Shura City, a fictional compound that Mr. Kohn’s drew up earlier this year and published online, garnering a fair share of attention from bloggers and reporters in the weeks since. But since Kohn isn’t exactly a trained architect — and says he wasn’t even taking the Sam Fox class for credit — his blueprint is one that doesn’t necessarily examine the most aesthetically pleasing building options. Instead, Kohn favors components that could keep a small civilization in tack as the use of drones escalates and the unmanned aircraft launch missiles around the world on a daily basis.

    “As a law student, I am fascinated by drones’ existence in a post-legal world,” he writes in his report. “Architecture can adapt, and this project clearly aims to show just those adaptations, but American jurisprudence is simply not capable of making clear, comforting, adjudications on drones and the sorts of crimes they have been created to deter. Architecture as a discipline has a long history of being capable of developing within the cracks left by law.”

    “In the case of drones, the current legal regime is just wholly unprepared for warfare by algorithm,” he explains. “Architecture can work where law cannot by giving dignity and safety to people physically when they are not afforded those privileges legally.”

    Kohn’s explanation could be considered quite the bummer, but it isn’t without reason. With the United States governments largely defending the extrajudicial killings of American citizens with drones as the program expands overseas, the bad guys in the eyes of Uncle Sam aren’t just al-Qaeda’s top-guns anymore. In late 2011, a drone strike in Yemen killed Abdurahman al-Awlakis, the 16-year-old American son of a suspected al-Qaeda operative. The White House stands by the killing. Speaking of Shura City, Kohn says, “Such creations are not needed for the John Connors but for the Abdurahman al-Awlakis.”

    By using minarets and wind-catching cooling towers called badgirs, aerial drones would ideally be kept out of the Shura city limits because navigating through a series of obstacles would create a nuisance for the drone pilot, who could be located as far as thousands of miles away, in the case of the US drone wars. But those structures wouldn’t even be a starting point. From Kohn’s report:

    “Somewhere between the figurative embrace of the St. Peter’s Square and the chain-link fortification of Pablo Escobar’s compound, there has to be a happy medium. Shura City needs a roof because without one it is just a gesture, a Disney-ified attempt at safety. An open sky is an invitation for the patient masters of the air, and those drones feel no need to RSVP.”

    Within the city, he also calls on specially-made windows, ones that beam self-destruct codes at drones that have managed to enter Shura from the outside. By implementing QR codes — the same kind of technology that sends commands to smartphones with a single glimpse — he says he’d have yet another form of fortification. That isn’t to say, though, that there’d be no escape.

    “The city is a ‘black box’ impenetrable to data miners and military-trained individuals but it is not a prison. It is instead a gated community, providing its society with sunshine and safety from the scary world outside,” he writes.

    In other words, though, Kohn suggests that the need for a drone-proof city might soon be imperative. With the right planning, Shura City could exist as a city that serves as a safe-haven and not a prison-walled facility where a step outside means guaranteed execution.

    “If people are going to create new and exciting ways to kill people, I think there’s no harm in pushing the envelope of peace technology,” he tells Sarah Goodyear of The Atlantic Cities.” continues…

  23. Have you ever been to missouri? Fully 50% of the population is on disability! This does not include other govt. freebies. Had an attorney there (highly recommended) who told us he hated his job and would rather be bass fishing. And the Judge in the case accepted more “evidence” in the case from the opposing side (fellow missourians – voters) after the circus, er, hearing/ our leaving.
    But they do have indoor plumbing.

  24. I agree with everything here except this:

    “for the fact of evolution.”

    Last I checked, it’s called “Evolution Theory” not “Law of Evolution”. You can’t call a theory a fact. If you did, you are also proving that creationism is a fact, not a belief (or theory).

  25. No Josh. You need to get a book or use your internet to educate yourself to what a scientific theory is and how it differs from your usage. Is Gravity Theory also proving that the Earth rests on the backs of stacks and stacks of turtles? No. Is Germ Theory also proving that evil spirits are the cause of disease too? No.

    Scientific Theory:

    In science there is nothing higher than a theory because scientific theories take many facts, repeatable experiments and observation to culminate in a body of knowledge that we call a scientific theory.

  26. Radioman KansaSitty wrote:
    No man’s life, liberty, or property are safe while the Legislature is in session
    Sadly, so very true

  27. His next battle is to pass a law that dictates the sun revolves around the earth. Followed by a law that demands women bare the child of any rapist or unwanted incestual relationship, even at the risk of the mother’s certain death. And then to keep men honest, he wants a law.demanding women wear burkas at all times, even in the shower. Oh, wait, I’m thinking of those Muslim crazed religious lunatics about the burka thing.

  28. Living proof that evolution is going the wrong way.

    I have had my own theory of evolution for a long time. When one is elected to a state legislature, the evolutionary process suddenly reverses itself. Or it may be the electorate who votes for these clowns that is going backward.

  29. That state does have a smart, thoughtful Governor. Jay Nixon. He now has to deal with a RepubliCon controlled House and Senate. Creationism is the least of the Show Me State Worries. Dred Scott has come back and he is running for Secretary of Labor.

  30. State legislators have way too much time on their hands. The North Carolina House Judiciary Committee C has approved House Bill 34. The bill makes it a Class H felony to purposefully expose “private parts” for the “purpose of arousing or gratifying sexual desire.”

    The bill expands the state’s definition of “private parts” to include a woman’s “nipple, or any portion of the areola.” State Rep. Rayne Brown (R) said she was co-sponsoring the bill because about a dozen female activists had held a topless rally for women’s rights in Asheville last summer.

    Committee Chairwoman Rep. Sarah Steven (R) suggested that women could use pasties or nipple coverings just to be safe. “They’d be good to go” with nipple coverings, Stevens said.

    State Rep. Tim Moore (R) agreed, saying, “You know what they say, duct tape fixes everything,”

    I have an idea. Assuming the bill is passed into law, which is a lot of assuming, this gave me an idea for a potentially lucrative business enterprise.

    I can envision a new product line that should please everyone. Duct tape can be painful when pulled off, so how about a line of high quality pasties for the ladies? They would be in the form of a beautiful female nipple, easy to remove and reusable. We could make a variety of custom sizes and colors to accommodate all different ethnic groups and tastes. Perhaps some could even come accessorized with nipple rings. That would meet all requirements of the law.

    As for the duct tape. I would be willing to apply duct tape to Rep. Tim Moore’s ta-tas and rip it off….repeatedly…since that has been proffered as an alternative.

  31. Let evolution be taught as a theory, not a truth. Guarantee that a student’s religious belief is not threatened by an over zealous instructor.
    Our school system is in deep trouble already let us not make changes that digs us deeper and further away from the ideal.
    All students should be taught to be individual thinkers, to gain ideas from many sources and decide by weighing right against error to determine his/her own life philosophy.
    And above all, don’t get bogged down in one legislator’s opinion; that is dangerous.

  32. Otteray wrote:
    The bill expands the state’s definition of “private parts” to include a woman’s “nipple, or any portion of the areola.” State Rep. Rayne Brown (R) said she was co-sponsoring the bill because about a dozen female activists had held a topless rally for women’s rights in Asheville last summer
    So let me get this. One event happens and a person in the legislature objects and decides that ALL WOMEN MUST COMPLY or face a felony charge.


  33. Darren,
    Wonder how they plan to deal with the Huffington Post. Their stock in trade seems to be starlet nipples. Never heard of most of the starlets, but gotta admit that I am admirer of the female form. I guess the state will have to set up filters on such programming. Just like China.

  34. Of course man and woman were created by God. The most intelligent people on Earth understand that God is the engineer of life. The only question that really remains is what kind of engineer is God?

    Some think that God is a mechanical engineer because if you look at all the pulleys and levers that drive the body, how the tendons and muscles and bones all work together, well, it’s just amazing.

    Others think that God is a chemical engineer because if you look at all the chemical processes that drive the body, how the hormones and the brain and the glands and everything else all interact, well, it’s just astounding.

    And still others think that God is an electrical engineer because if you look at the circuitry of the body, how the thousands upon millions of nerve cells transmit signals from one part to another, well, it boggles the mind.

    But after much debate and diligent study of all of the facts, the only logical and undeniable conclusion that can be reached is that God is a civil engineer because only a civil engineer would run a sewer through a playground.

  35. Anon: “Many bills are proposed but few are passed. Enough said.”

    So it’s mostly constipation rather than legislation?

  36. Ralph – When you prove one of the thousands of claimed “gods” exists, you can say that. Until then, it’s buybull fiction you should keep in your home and church, not schools or government.

  37. I am a Missouri native who was educated in Missouri public schools and universities. I am also a professional scientist. This %^#& is a whole new kinda crazy for our state. The logic of argument in the bill is so inaccurate and unsupportable I am still dizzy from the repeated facepalming that occurred as I read it. Most of my people are not this ignorant. No really. I promise.

    P.S. I live in California now and am powerless in the struggle against such stupidity so far away. :(

  38. Don’t assume an entire state is a “cesspool of ignorance” on the basis of one bill introduced by one state legislator,

    OK But can I assume he wants to MAKE IT a cesspool of ignorance ?

  39. Wow. Macro evolution is not only just a theory of life’s origin with very poor scientific support, it is mostly supported by the religion of scientific naturalism (see all comments above) which should not be the sole worldview to determine what is taught in schools. Not only does scientism produce bad science because it ignores a lot of very important data, it is self contradictory and will drive our education and society to the ground. The sad part is that most of the comments from this blog come from individuals who don’t even realize they are being very religious and therefore never subject themselves to any constructive internal scrutiny. Bad religion with no tolerance, bad science, and self-contradictory foundational pillars–please stay away from our free society’s legislation! Finally a legislator who sees past your blind ignorance…….

  40. Josh: You can’t call a theory a fact. If you did, you are also proving that creationism is a fact, not a belief (or theory).

    Creationism isn’t a theory – it’s a fairy tale. Not even close to any definition of “theory”

  41. @Blind Faithiness: Maybe I wasn’t clear enough. It would do you good to actually read your own links before making your own ignorance public. As I stated, a theory is something that hasn’t been scientifically proven as a fact. As a matter of coincidence, the links you provided also indicate that on a scientific language, “theory” simply means, and I quote: “If enough evidence accumulates to support a hypothesis, it moves to the next step—known as a theory—in the scientific method and becomes accepted as a valid explanation of a phenomenon.”

    As of today, there is enough evidence to support evolution as a theory, but not as a law, which by definition “A theory is an explanation of an observed phenomenon, while a law is a description of an observed phenomenon.”

    Just as you can’t describe me, having never met, you can’t say that your interpretation of me is a “law” but in fact it is a “theory”.

    Now, going by your faux theories, they have both been proven false, or expanded upon.

    What you are describing is ignorance mixed with faith (or religion).

  42. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS 2 PARTIES. they are all controlled by the same set of rich billionaires and if you google them you will see they all follow the same pattern and demi devil…

    2. the 2 party system has been redesigned to make us believe we are truly a free country with rights when we are not. and that is finally being bought to light by the elites themselves they no longer feel they have to hide behind lies, fakes po-lie trickers , or even fake flag terrorist attacks. not one potus since eisenhower has been a true american or patroit, and anyone allowed to make it to the higher offices of any branch of the corporation formerly known as the government is a freemason, anyone trying to change their mind or back out is publicly destroyed, then personally and if all of that doesnt work they are killed,,, re jfk, phil scheider,john and caroline kennedy, anyone who was involved with the clintons , and quite a few others.. look up the boystown scandal, the clinton chronicles, the franklin coverup, the three stooges go to washington, and all others you run across creationism was enacted for all atheist. now that the gay and lesbians have gotten their way the next phase is being put into place and that is to pull off the last vestiges of any connection what so ever to GOD. in case you havent noticed. the word GOD is being removed, deleted, and forbidden all over… come to think of that if you really want to know the truth about the bible look up the book of enoch that was totally removed, then the annuki and finally sumerians

  43. I wonder how this Turely person expects to represent anyone in this state with such backward, outdated foolish “creationism” hogwash. In today’s world, when the word “creationism is spoken, it’s done with a wink and a nod. Please don’t expose any of Missouri’s Children to Non-Scientific fact. To do is to hamper their growth as Upstanding Forward Minded young people. Allow Our States Children to become Leaders of the Future. We have hope for many fine Scientists and Bright minded Citzens. Let’s believe in a better future.

  44. Josh – You clearly don’t understand science or the words used – or what you typed.

    Evidence means FACTS . They are not guesses they and not hopes and prayers and they aren’t made up or dismissed to suit the conclusions you want (that’s how creationism works).

    Theory is the DESCRIPTION of how those facts fit together. The facts do not change and by the time you get to the theory of whatever – it’s over.

    If this helps.. here are a few theories that you can dispute with equal intensity


    Molecular theory — Kinetic theory of gases — Molecular orbital theory — Valence bond theory — Transition state theory — RRKM theory — Chemical graph theory — Flory-Huggins solution theory — Marcus theory — Lewis theory (successor to Brønsted–Lowry acid–base theory) — HSAB theory — Debye–Hückel theory — Thermodynamic theory of polymer elasticity — Reptation theory — Polymer field theory — Møller–Plesset perturbation theory — Density Functional Theory — Frontier molecular orbital theory — Polyhedral skeletal electron pair theory — Baeyer strain theory — Quantum theory of atoms in molecules — Collision theory — Ligand field theory (successor to Crystal field theory) — Variational Transition State Theory — Benson group increment theory — Specific ion interaction theory

    Approximation theory — Arakelov theory — Asymptotic theory — Bifurcation theory — Catastrophe theory — Category theory — Chaos theory — Choquet theory — Coding theory — Combinatorial game theory — Computability theory — Computational complexity theory — Deformation theory — Dimension theory — Ergodic theory — Field theory — Galois theory — Game theory — Graph theory — Group theory — Hodge theory — Homology theory — Homotopy theory — Ideal theory — Intersection theory — Invariant theory — Iwasawa theory — K-theory — KK-theory — Knot theory — L-theory — Lie theory — Littlewood–Paley theory — Matrix theory — Measure theory — Model theory — Morse theory — Nevanlinna theory — Number theory — Obstruction theory — Operator theory — PCF theory — Perturbation theory — Potential theory — Probability theory — Ramsey theory — Rational choice theory — Representation theory — Ring theory — Set theory — Shape theory — Small cancellation theory — Spectral theory — Stability theory — Stable theory — Sturm–Liouville theory — Twistor theory

    Music theory

    Plate Teutonic theory

    Cell theory — Evolution — Germ theory

    But – they’re just theories.. Have fun Josh !!

  45. EG NJ, Josh is using standard apologetic lines without bothering to understand what he’s writing. When folks attempt to redefine how ‘scientific theory’ is used, they only expose that they can’t dispute the science. The only choice left is to obfuscate and play to others that are scientifically illiterate.


    Josh, you’ve only used oft repeated inaccuracies and misconceptions. Your lack of understanding and willful ignorance is apparent for all to see.

    Theory stands above laws in scientific terms. Your denial of this speaks volumes about your desire to ignore reality in favor of ideology.

    Newton developed the first generation of the ‘laws of gravity,’ but ‘the theory of gravity’ supersedes and incorporates the ‘laws of gravity’ to form the body of current and developing understanding regarding the force of nature known as gravity. The same applies for the ToE. Your continued denial and misunderstandings regarding the links I provided show your ideologically motivated bias. My links are accurate and your misunderstanding is a product of your own motivation.

  46. “Theory stands above laws in scientific terms.”


    This is so true. For science to maintain its integrity “theory” must be used for even well-proven conceptions. I my, less than scientific, mind this is the way it has to be because there must always be an opening for new evidence to further shape the “Theory”.

  47. Call theory what you want. You still need facts to support it. Evolution theory simply does not explain the facts in regards to life’s origin. Empirical evidence is lacking. It’s clear and it’s time to move on.

  48. “Evolution theory simply does not explain the facts in regards to life’s origin. Empirical evidence is lacking. It’s clear and it’s time to move on.”

    wise anonymity,

    Interesting, if deceptive move on your part. Making an assertion without evidence supporting it and then declaring the topic “done”………..Really?

  49. wise anonymity sez: “Call theory what you want. You still need facts to support it. Evolution theory simply does not explain the facts in regards to life’s origin. Empirical evidence is lacking. It’s clear and it’s time to move on.”


    You lead a much too sheltered life. There are things called books. You can find them in libraries and college bookstore. They cover subjects such as science and the scientific method. You really need to get out more and read up of a subject before pontificating about it. Empirical evidence is lacking? Really? Oh noes, 13 years of college education gone for naught because some blogger pulled an opinion out of his nether orifice. When I think of all those hours in the lab I must have wasted……. Oh wait! Never mind.

  50. Otter, I have 10 years post-graduate scientific education. Books have been read. The data is clear. You have not wasted your education, you just have missed out on important facts. The reason? Unscrutinized religious and philosophical ideology is limiting our education by banning legislation that allows a proper examination of all the facts of life’s origin. These bloggers/critics are just shooting themselves in the foot. Sorry about the hours in the lab…….been there. You are not kidding about sheltered life…. again, it is time to move on…..

  51. “Otter, I have 10 years post-graduate scientific education. Books have been read. The data is clear.”

    Proof positive that education doesn’t necessarily dispel closed minds and/or ignorance.

  52. Right, wise anon. Just keep telling yourself that. All you need to do is make one finding that shows the ToE to contradict the evidence accumulated by any one of the major fields of science that provide evidence for the ToE like biology, paleontology, genetics, geology, etc. or any of those field’s sub-fields. If you find a rabbit fossil below a dino fossil or any other contradiction to the major tenets of evolution you’ll be the most famous scientist in the world.

    Why aren’t you working on that instead of making empty claims with zero evidence as support if you’re so knowledgeable and confident? You’re not just another typical creation apologist, are you? Hope not. The world has plenty of those that are blinded by ideological faithiness. We need you to be an objective, scientifically literate member of society, not a bronze age mystic.

  53. I call BS on wise anon. Anyone with a ‘post-graduate science education’ knows first and foremost that the theory of evolution has nothing to do with the origin of life. The ToE is observations, experiments, and explanations of the many mechanisms that lead to adaption and speciation of life over time. How life on Earth changes and by what means drives that change is the only thing the ToE is used to explain.

    Abiogenesis is the study of how life may have originated from non-life, which can also include religious beginnings(although supernatural beginnings are by definition beyond the study of the natural world and explanations). If you can’t even get the fields of study and very clear differences in what is being discussed straight, how can you be taken seriously?

  54. 10 years in science education – not in science !!

    Wise – The school should refund your money based on this statement alone:

    //Call theory what you want. You still need facts to support it. Evolution theory simply does not explain the facts in regards to life’s origin//

    Evolution does not discuss ORIGIN – it discusses the variations, species, changes, etc.

    Abiogenesis discusses orgination. They are not the same thing at all.

    //Unscrutinized religious and philosophical ideology is limiting our education by banning legislation that allows a proper examination of all the facts of life’s origin//

    For cryin out loud – just say “GodDidIt” – creation – and get it over with so we can get on with asking you for any proof whatsoever.

    The Bible isn’t proof – it’s a claim with no supporting evidence. You may have FAITH or you may have FACTS AND EVIDENCE but you can’t have both.

  55. Maxcat, I have to give attribution. I read a children’s story once long ago, and have since hunted for it for years in vain and never found it again. It was a sort of modified “Just-So Story” about how whales were made. It said that God was growing vegetables in his garden in a cliff above the sea, when he noticed that one of the eggplants was a-growin’ and a-growin’ and a-growin’ way way too big for what it shoulda. So he told it to stop a-growin’ so big but it just didn’t listen and kept a-growin’ and a-growin’ until he got into a fit of pique and snatched that big old eggplant off its stem and punched a hole in it and threw it OVER THE CLIFF and into the ocean, where it turned into a whale and would bob up and down in the ocean forever coming up to spray all the salt water out of that hole in its head.

    So whoever wrote that story, kudos!

Comments are closed.