>Another religious event has led to a massive death toll in India. The most recent stampede occurred in northern India at the Naina Devi Temple in Bilaspur district. As if often the case, the authorities and organizers allowed too many people to squeeze into a small area and then claimed amazement that a stampede followed — killing at least 30 children.
This stampede seems to have been triggered by the failure of iron railings at the site — prompting a panicked run by the crowd. The death toll has been rising all day and currently stands at 145, click here.
This type of accident has become an almost monthly installment from religious events in India, Saudi Arabia and other countries, click here and here and here and here and here and here.
The authorities expected 50,000 attendees but many more showed up for the event. Obviously, other countries including the United States have huge events without recurring stampedes. It would seem that the difference is the greater accountability and liability of organizers in such countries.
Mespo,
It’s been a couple of years since I’ve been in that area, but I’m sure Cinnamons is still around in Seattle. There’s also another couple good ones around, but I don’t remember the names. If you want some really good Coastal Mexican food you should try Agua Verde. Also no trip is complete to Pike Place Market without a stop at Piroshki Piroshki across the street (Russian food), there’s a reason that line is always so long.
zakimar:
“Americans still think they built their space program, not German, Nazi scientists that actually invented rockets and jet propulsion and built NASA.”
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I suppose we should also say that Israel “built” the Arab nations since as we all know they descended from Ishmael who, as Abraham’s eldest son, was the heir apparent to the Israelite Kingdom. That’s just about as ridiculous as your assertion that Nazi scientists “built” NASA. If they were so capable and Americans so irrelevant, why didn’t Hitler circle the globe or land on the moon? Your anti-Americanism is incredible, but more germane here is your utter refusal to accept historical fact and current social trends.
Gyges:
I agree with that but in my trips west I see almost everything except Indian Restaurants. I’ll take a recommendation by the way.
Mespo,
You don’t see many Indian Restaurants for the same reason it’s so hard to find a bakery with a really good rye bread in Seattle. You’re in the wrong part of the country. There’s a much larger Asian influence on the West coast then there is on the East, which makes a lot of sense.
Shubho; I don’t know what gave you the idea that my, “history is one of being on the wrong end of colonization and oppression”, but I appreciate the sentiment.
You and talktocool are correct in not allowing ignorance talk down to you.
There is no point to talking to Imperialists or Colonialists about this sort of issue (or most others for that matter) because they are better than everyone else and the “backward” people will ALWAYS owe them a debt of gratitude no matter how much they were abused by “massa”.
The English still think the USA was their creation and that India owes them a living. The US and Britain think it’s their right to have their companies taking Arab oil. I actually hear Americans – the same ones that eat Freedom fries and Freedom toast I guess talking how the Black slaves owe them because they are better off in America than they would have been in Africa and that they speak “American” not English.
Americans still think they built their space program, not German, Nazi scientists that actually invented rockets and jet propulsion and built NASA. So don’t waste your time with facts, because to racists and bigots, it’ll only confuse or anger them.
Shubho:
“Most of us look at it as a race against time to improve, innovate, compete and win in the world at a frantic pace. The jeans and American English are merely a side-effect of globalization. If you don’t adapt, you lose.”
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You make a valid point, but doesn’t it strike you as odd that this “globalization” is a one way street from the West to the East. You may have learned English and wear jeans, but I do not speak Hindu or Sanskrit nor wear dhotis or kurtas. And no significant segment of the US population does either unless they are Indian emigrants. You may think things are a two way interaction but a trip around America would disabuse you of that notion. That is not to say that all things American are perfect nor that we don’t have crowd control issues, but a look at our major events like the Super Bowl would probably convince you that our neighbors to the East have some things to learn.
Lastly, it is not paranoia to state fact. I make no qualitative judgments except to say that the world is becoming more Westernized and not its opposite. Perhaps that explains the sentiments of those still burdened with a 12th century Eastern mindset as they hopelessly resist the irresistible. Maybe your advice to “adapt or lose” should be directly to them since they seem unwilling or unable to change that which has clearly been demonstrated over and over again to be both obsolete and dangerous.
Zakimar and mespo727272:
Let’s talk facts here. India has a very poor record when it comes to crowd control and safety. Stampedes occur with alarming regularity. A huge population is no excuse when it comes to protecting human life.
Like it or not, the fact remains that the value of human life is disgustingly cheap in India. As an Indian, I’m ashamed of it, and frustrated at our inability to improve this basic characterisitic of a civilized society.
That said, whether the US is ‘better’ at crowd control is entirely debatable. I’ve not seen an event the size of the Kumbh Mela anywhere in the western world, for example. And Zakimar does have a very valid point about what panic does to crowds. The facts do not suggest that US law enforcement agencies have the experience of handling crowds the size of which can only be seen in South Asia.
Mespo727272, man…you got to stop the paranoia. Most Indians are too busy building a better life for themselves, and don’t really give a rats ass about what the United States does or thinks. If it makes you feel better to think they are ‘westernizing at a frantic pace’, suit yourself. Most of us look at it as a race against time to improve, innovate, compete and win in the world at a frantic pace. The jeans and American English are merely a side-effect of globalization. If you don’t adapt, you lose. And it is as true for us, as it is for you. Unfortunately, your generation of Americans doesn’t seem to have realized it yet.
What happened two hundred years ago is of no consequence in India as well as the US. Yes, Mespo is reaping the fruits of historical wrongs as well as a history of innovation and enterprise. Zakimar’s history is one of being on the wrong end of colonization and oppression. But our identities are surely more than just our respective histories! This is a whole new world. We compete on equal footing.
This ‘culture’ debate is really meaningless. In another half a century, the only culture left in the world will be a global mishmash where you’re either a global citizen with a global culture, or you’re left behind.
‘My-culture-better-than-yours’ is really as crass as ‘my-religion-better-than-yours’.
when there are many top headlines eminating from India (US-India Nuclear deal, bomb blasts from terrorists etc) why did US media choose to highlight this and show in top news.
This is the machinations of mainstream media and Christian lobby to undermine Hinduism and way it is practised.They want to show how back other religions are there and how best Chrishtianity is.
There are many events happening in India….not to mention the Indo-US Nuclear deal which USA is also part of.
those events never made to headlines. then why this event was HEADLINES of mainstream american media?
It is just to undermine the Hinduism and show them in bad light.
zakimar:
“BTW, my “culture” consistently rates better than the USA on international standard of living charts. But I know other countries only matter to your ilk when they are “worse” than the US.”
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Those ratings you glowingly cite are usually the result of the largess of the American people or their buying power. I wouldn’t compare societies if I were you either, we’d have to look into eastern systems of justice that do not merely incarcerate the guilty but separate them from their arms, legs and even their heads.
I find it strange that you say that America doesn’t exist compared to India given the years of culture etc. I see India westernizing at a frantic pace, but no concomitant move for America to Indianize. Heck there’s barely any Indian Restaurants around. Seems the Indians know we exist, though you may not.
Likewise, I acknowledge the contributions of Native Americans (like Chief Powhatan) who certainly helped the first colonists. To acknowledge that fact, does not diminish the culture built by those settlers in any way, nor does it bring their abilities into question since every society has had assistance from indigenous peoples.
By the way, I see no enemy in your words, just an ideologue.
You have to find a better hobby than looking for enemies where none exist – you and Bush/McCain.
I was merely trying to point out those obvious racists and bigots were trying to draw conclusions about other countries and cultures based on isolated tragedies. Besides, compared to India’s thousands of years of culture and civilization, America doesn’t exist. If not for the Natives, the first “Americans” would have died of hunger and disease – they were of course slaughtered for their kindness.
If I wanted to make negative comments about US “culture”, I would talk about the highest incarceration rate in the world, the only western country with capital punishment, the only western country with legalized torture, but you should be proud of US crowd control standards.
BTW, my “culture” consistently rates better than the USA on international standard of living charts. But I know other countries only matter to your ilk when they are “worse” than the US.
zakimar:
You have a keen mastery and fixation on one episode that was handled both criminally and civilly and for which restitution and punishment were obtained. You gleefully ignore the numerous similar incidents in your world (sadly detailed above) for which neither responsibility nor compensation is required or even contemplated. Were I you, I would concentrate on the “beam in your eye,” and not the “speck” in the eye of the West. The difference, since I must obviously spell it out, is that the West resolves and improves, your culture accepts and suffers.
India is 1/3 the size of the US with 3x the population. Things like this are BOUND to happen. If US had the same population dynamics, I can guarantee you its people would look/behave/act/think in a DRASTICALLY different manner.
The Great White concert which left 32% of those in attendance DEAD and 60% injured happened in Rhode Island. And in case you don’t believe me, please feel free to check a map, RI is in a “Western” country AND had Americans organizing the event.
Please, read a book once in a while, or go back to public school then finish your GED in order that you may be better educated BEFORE you post “comments”.
zakimar:
“It’s a good thing there weren’t too many Americans at that Hindu festival or the death toll would have been over 16 000.”
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Baiting is fun, but you should at least have something palatable for the quarry. This is sheer stupidity masquerading as comment, and it is very likely that had Americans organized the event using our law, few if any would have died or been injured. You may not like us, but at least give credit where due, or is that too Western a concept for you to accept?
JT:
“It would seem that the difference is the greater accountability and liability of organizers in such countries.”
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That would be hard for most conservatives to admit, but easy enough for them to enjoy. Joni Mitchell had it right:
Don’t it always seem to go
That you don’t know what you’ve got
’til it’s gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot
….
(Big Yellow Taxi, 1970)
Panic does strange things to even decent people – let’s include Hindus and Muslims for the sake of discussion.
During a Great White concert for 300 people, a fire caused panic and 95 people died and 180 were injured – a 92% death or injury rate. The above festival had 123 people dead in a crowd of over 50 000, and the Hajj in Mecca has about 2 000 000 pilgrims.
It’s a good thing there weren’t too many Americans at that Hindu festival or the death toll would have been over 16 000.
Hey Percy,
Thanks for finally admitting the left is sane!
JT writes: “the United States have huge events without recurring stampedes. It would seem that the difference is the greater accountability and liability of organizers in such countries.”
THAT is because we are sane and those people are insane.