The New York Times had a curious op-ed piece this week from Libyan President Muammar Qaddafi who proposed a “one-state solution” to the Palestinian crisis: a new Israeli-Palestinian state called Isratine. It was a surprising source for advice on the issue from a man not only linked to “Carlos the Jackal” and terrorist operations like the destruction of Pam Am flight 103, but a man whose previously solution was to push Israeli Jews into the sea.
Qaddafi the columnist can be credited with the idea of reaching a compromise — and for the improvements in his relations with the West in the last few years. It is also a major advance to hear Qaddafi say the following words:
The basis for the modern State of Israel is the persecution of the Jewish people, which is undeniable. The Jews have been held captive, massacred, disadvantaged in every possible fashion by the Egyptians, the Romans, the English, the Russians, the Babylonians, the Canaanites and, most recently, the Germans under Hitler. The Jewish people want and deserve their homeland.
It is the new country that he outlines that is a bit of a novelty:
In absolute terms, the two movements must remain in perpetual war or a compromise must be reached. The compromise is one state for all, an “Isratine” that would allow the people in each party to feel that they live in all of the disputed land and they are not deprived of any one part of it.
It is better that Qaddafiland. It sounds better in a national anthem.
Oh, Isratine
Our home and native land!
True patriot love in all thy sons command.
With glowing hearts we see thee rise,
The One State strong and free!
From far and wide, O Isratine,
We stand on guard for thee.
God keep our land glorious and free!
O Isratine, we stand on guard for thee.
O Isratine, we stand on guard for thee.
For the New York Times op-ed, click here.
you are the one that said nuke Saudi Arabia not me. I just said “nuke arabs good one”, which the Saudis are why do you want to nuke the entire country because of the royal family? that does not make any sense to me. Are we not taught by the prophet Obama to love our neighbors as ourselves?
So you want to nuke arabs no big deal dont need to worry about being racist. I just love it when a liberal cant figure out which way is up. Which is most of the time.
Hey I am poking the teddy BEAR, Mr. Snuggles you are so cute.
EVERYONE FROM NOW ON PLEASE REFER TO BUDDHA AS MR. SNUGGLES
And don’t put words in my mouth, Bron unless you just want to poke the bear. I didn’t say Nuke the Arabs. That’s racist. Arabs are a people, like the Cherokee or the Jews, a genetic group with common markers. In all of humanity there is less than 7% variation in genetic code. Racism is scientifically invalid. We are all the same “virus with shoes” as Bill Hicks liked to call humans. They are like all people – capable of both good and evil. I said nuke Saudi Arabia, the country, run by the most evil family on the planet like a 12th Century personal enterprise. It’s an evil ruling class fostering evil value systems. The House of Saud, the Bandar and Faisal families are evil. Pure and simple. How can I say that? Because there is empirical evidence in their actions. Sure, they may have decent individuals in those groups, but as a whole, they and their “culture” are a blight on the world. The fact they are of Arabic descent is irrelevant unless you’re a simple racist. It’s not what they are that makes them evil. It’s how they act.
The 800 pound gorilla in the room is the fact that by its very definition the state of Isreal has to show racial and ethnic preferences in how it treats those living within its borders.
When the powers that be in South Africa (15 years ago) claimed that the one man-one vote ideal behind most modern democracies was unworkable because South Africa would then cease to be a country with a special Dutch-Anglo flavor, we (right thinking Americans) thought that was a bunch of bullshit; star-studded videos and spectacular summer concert events soon followed.
When it is suggested, albeit by a kook, that everone should just live in one big country, with no ethnic favoratism, he’s laughed at; because this time we’re talking about Isreal.
If tomorrow morning, Hezbullah, and Hamas, and the Fatah movement, and all their fellow traveler put down there weapons, and decided to go completely “Gandhi”, the Isreali’s would bend over backwards to try to insight more violence. Isreal NEEDS the arabs within its boarders to be violent so it can justify what Jimmy Carter rightfully called a form of apartheid.
Gadafi may be an evil clown, but by raising his suggestion, he should make us in the States seriously question why we have to support Isreal. South African no doubt had more honest and open elections DURING apartheid than any country in its region; the same fact always used to defens Isreal. But like Isreal, not everybody got to participate.
Lazy fingers. And yes, in Cairo a member of the royal family sent a servant across the airport who asked my stepfather literally, “How much to buy the woman.” Had I been an adult, I would have handed him his master’s ass on plate. I was 12. As it was, he was lucky to make it away with his life. My stepfather was a right bastard.
Buddha:
I like that Nuke the Arabs. Good one. A Saudi really tried to buy your mom? Please tell that story, I hope you kicked his keffiyeh wearing behind.
Any camel jocks out there who want to respond?
One question why do you call Gyges Gynes?
The worst job in the world is looking for a job. Good luck, Gynes.
Gyges:
You know, Norm at Cheers always wanted that job as a taster at the local brewery. I appreciate your continuing to carry the blog metaphor.
Gyges:
Allow me to join our regulars in wishing you the best of luck in the job search. I have friends and family who have been put out of work (rather than by choice in your case) in this economy. It is not easy. I expect you to cite your status on this blog on your resume. We can attest to your good character, intellect, and wit. As for the brewery job, we will each write you a letter of recommendation just to allow us to visit.
JT
Mike,
Thanks, but my job search is by choice. My current job (for a large retail chain) has started cutting hours across the board. Plus I’ve decided to try and find work with a small company, they tend to be better managed. I’m really hoping for the brewery assistant slot that opened up at a local brew pub. I doubt I’ll get it, but I can always dream.
Buddha,
We have much that we agree on.
Gyges,
All sides are being played by the same sort of people who felt they were playing “The Great Game” in the 19th Century. The end result is always that the rich get richer and innocents die.
Also I’m sorry hearing about your job search, been there myself and it isn’t easy. However, rational, intelligent thinking is a rare skill today and you have that in abundance.
Gynes,
That’s exactly the current situation. You see how well that’s worked out.
Mike,
I’m not giving the Saudis a walk, make no mistake. Israel is a problem, but they are (as I’ve described before) like that crazy friend you’re afraid to go out with lest you get pulled into a bar fight. Saudi Arabia is our real, true enemy. Evil people with evil motives. This problem has more than one root and you are correct to point out the SA/Big Oil connection. They use big lobby firms like Cassidy & Assoc. too. The graft merchants. Israel, no matter how illogical in inception, is not nearly the threat to us the Saudis are despite their interference with our political structure. For one, they are a democracy. A malfunctioning one because of the Neocons, but since this is a glass house, I’ll drop that stone. Saudi Arabia are theocratic monarchist fascists. They attacked us and bought their way out of retribution because their puppet was in the White House. And make no mistake, Bush is “their boy”. Also make no mistake in that they won’t be happy until everyone practices Wahhabist Islam (the Islamic equivalent of Fundamentalist Pentecostals). Saudi Arabia is the biggest shit disturber in the region without question. I’m the guy who thinks they should be reduced to rubble. I’m not even opposed to a nuclear strike on them. Now who is the “candy ass liberal”, trolls? That’s how badly I loathe the Saudi “royal” family and their minions. I can think of no better place to be a radioactive crater than Riyadh. And that dislike started the day one of those pricks offered to “buy” my mother in an airport (true story) but it became critical after 9/11 when their true depth of evil was illustrated on live TV. Fuck Saudi Arabia. I mean that most sincerely. And while we are at it, the same goes for their bankers in Dubai who are sheltering the criminal organization Halliburton – the Saudi’s partner in crime.
Mike and Buddha,
Why can’t the US be playing both sides, or rather be played by both sides? It seems to me if both sides have an interest in prolonging both the conflict and US involvement there’s no reason why Politicians in the US can’t continue to exploit the situation by telling both sides “see I’m doing what you want, now where’s my support (read: money)?”
“Any rational state would have cut Israel off 20 years ago.”
Buddha,
We have a point of agreement. I wait for the day the US stops claiming its a friend of Israel’s. I’m confident the Israeli’s would be better off without such “friendship.”
Where we disagree is in the US being a puppet of Israel, rather than a Saudi/Big Oil puppet. Truthfully, why is Saudi Prince Bandar known as “Bandar Bush.” What man has been photographed walking hand in hand with that selfsame Saudi prince. How come George H.W., George and Neil Bush have a long history of interwoven Saudi business dealings?
Check out Bechtel Corporation with Caspar Weinberger and George Schulz to see the Arab/Reagan connections. Who are the main contributors to Bill Clinton’s foundation as disclosed for the Senate hearings? If you want to go back a bit google LBJ and the Texas firm Brown & Root, adding in Richard Nixon for good measure. It’s the Saudi/OPEC/Big Oil types who have been the US puppet masters for years prior to Israel’s birth. The US has used its’ “special friendship” with Israel to keep it in check and keep the Arab States with really having to deal directly with Israel and finally reach the conclusion of a peace that can last.
I won’t even go into allowing AIPAC to function after twice being found harboring spies.
And for the record Mike, I don’t think Israel is a puppet of the U.S. I think our lobbying “laws” have allowed them to make puppets of us. Any rational state would have cut Israel off 20 years ago.
See that trolls? That’s what debate looks like. Good going, Mike.
First Mr. Qaddafi is hardly the person I’d go to to discuss nation building. The problem with a one state solution is two-fold:
1. The Arabs would soon be the majority in such a State and there is nothing in the ME’s history to suggest that minorities would be fairly treated.
2. Whether one presumes Israel has a right to exist or not and whether one feels the Israeli’s have been cruel oppressors or not, they are there now. They are a nuclear power. Contrary to the feeling of many, Israel really isn’t a puppet of the US and it will strive to continue its identity with or without US support.
WWII was a watershed for Jews in that it finally brought us as an ethnic group into the realization that we can’t live on the good graces of either the Christian and/or Muslim world. As an American, in my 60’s I was hit figuratively/literally with anti-Jewish invective/fists in my youth. From the Christian and Muslim perspective they are the successors to Judaism and as such the continued existence of committed Jews is an affront to their beliefs. This has been the basis of anti-Jewish feeling for almost 1,700 years of Christian history and 1,300 years of Islamic history.
Buddha’s point about Jews and banking was for the most part correct but did not give full emphasis to the fact that Jews were excluded from most professions in the Christian medieval world. When you need to feed your children a good parent does what is necessary. However, I would remind Buddha that my own forebears were starving peasants as were the forebears of practically every Jewish person I’ve ever known. That’s why so many of us came to the US.
The saving feature of Judaism has been the need for every adult male to be literate in order to be able to partake in community worship. Jewish literacy, even among its’ vast peasantry has always been high, when compared to the surrounding populations.
This gave us the slim edge that allowed us to continue to exist as a people/religion/culture.
I’m not a supporter in any way of the Neo-Cons, yet I am a supporter of Israel. The Neo-Cons have attempted to usurp leadership on Israel, but in truth they are mostly non-Jewish and really more interested in a twisted view of America as an Imperial State, with world hegemony for Corporations. The AIPAC crowd are dupes of this crew and have never had my support.
The true solution to this is that the West Bank is returned to Jordan, from whence it came in 1967 and Gaza is returned to Egypt. The problem is that neither of these States wants it back. Since Israel’s independence war, when 600,000+ Arabs fled Israel, awaiting the fledgling country to be overrun by the combined Arab states. these Arabs have been kept in degradation and poverty by their Arab brothers, funded by the Saudi’s and have been used as pawns in the process of creating an Israeli “bogeyman” to keep the “Arab Street’s” interest deflected from their rule by despots in the most medieval of manners.
These despots have supported a gangster leadership of those unfortunate souls that has kept them from succeeding and created such a disharmony among them that neither Jordan (which expelled them) nor Egypt want them back. The Israeli’s for their part have been disheartened and made cynical by over seven decades of fighting for their existence and since Begin (a thug and gangster at heart)have had the balance of political power tipped by the so-called Haredim (fundamentalists)who avoid the draft for their children, but like to talk tough.
In truth I don’t know what the answer will be, but as a Jew I know that Israel will fight for its’ existence up until it is faced with utter destruction and at that point the entire ME goes up in nuclear conflagration and all the oil is lost for thousands of years. I don’t think it will come to that but that is really the true basis of Israel’s survival and not as many suppose US backing. Our backing of Israel has always been rhetoric, despite the insistence that AIPAC is the villain. Think about it. Oil is where the money and power is and our society is run on money and power. The Saud’s alone have more influence than AIPAC and they need Israel kept around as their “bogeyman.”
I know that I’m unable to convince those of you, like Buddha who I respect and admire, who see this conflict as one of Israeli oppression. To be honest I’ve engaged in too many debates about this through the years and have found neither the other side, nor myself giving ground. I merely want to show that there are other positions on this than those given by the media as expressing Jewish concern and/or Israeli support.
I read this article last night. And I thought the Times couldn’t go any lower than employing that scumbag Kristol. I’ll give ol’ Muammar his props though. He likes simplicity. Too bad his solution fails to take human nature into account. The displacement of Palestine is not so remote in history as to be easily forgotten or forgiven. The REPEATEDLY bad actions of the Israeli government are also too recent and – more important – too bloody to be easily forgiven much less forgotten. If the root problems were thousands of years in the past, he might have the sliver of an idea IF no one alive today had been killed by either side and both sides had fallen into homeostasis. Right now, nerves are too raw for a single state solution. It will also never happen with the Likhud in power. The people behind them are the same amoral unethical evil bastards that brought you Bush and Cheney and stole the GOP from traditional conservatives.
They ARE the Neocons, don’t forget.
War is their primary profit center.
They are evil personified.
At the end of the day, that’s what keeps this situation on fire – money and the love of it. The one “treasure” in life guaranteed not to be able to go with you when you die. Money – the primary reasons Jews were historically persecuted. Don’t believe that? Look into their history in Europe. They weren’t thrown out of a country just once because someone in power didn’t want to pay the vig. Usury is the tradition of banking. Never forget that. Since the locals often found usury either unsavory or prohibited by some social or religious more, the Jews always stepped in to fill that gap. Loansharking tends to make you just about as popular as a crack dealer. Their treatment by the English is a perfect example. Not wanting to pay Jewish bankers leveraging the Throne for war loans, King Edward I expelled them in 1290. This story repeats all over Europe. I’m not suggesting Judaism is evil, but banking is and so is the mindset behind it – greed. That Jews as a people fell so disproportionately into it is an accident of history. But that banking draws Neocons of any religious favor is simply a function of the evil in human nature. Neocons are not complicated. Greed hiding behind religious zeal. Banking is the perfect profession for them right behind arms manufacture and oil. If you really want global peace, people from these professions and industries would be disallowed from political process. Unable to lobby or vote in ANY form. Hey, it’s not unfair. You CHOOSE be in league with these people. That choice should carry a price. The ideals of greed don’t pay interest in pennies on the dollar. Dividends are paid in blood and zealotry compounds the interest. Right now, it’s being paid disproportionately by Palestinians. There will be no lasting peace in Israel, just like there will be no justice (but possibly civil war) in the United States, unless the Neocons are purged from global political process from top to bottom. If Muammar can make that happen in a reasonable time frame, I’ll listen to his plan, but right now, his op-ed is wishful thinking. Given his personal history, it’s also a lot of smoke being blown up someone’s skirt.
In principle, I think he’s right. I don’t think you need to make it one country, but not sharing the land with Palestinians will never lead to peace. Whether or not the leaders of either side can finally see the fallacy of their position is an entirely different matter.